Pretty Private: Bernie Mac's Daugher Je'Niece McCullough Is Keeping Her Father's Legacy Alive Part 1

Summary

Pretty Private: Bernie Mac’s Daughter Je’Niece McCullough Is Keeping Her Father’s Legacy Alive – Part 1

The Breakfast Club x Pretty Private with Ebony
Release Date: May 9, 2026
Host: Ebony
Guest: Je'Niece McCullough (daughter of Bernie Mac)

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Pretty Private, Ebony sits down with Je’Niece McCullough, daughter of the late comedy legend Bernie Mac. The conversation peels back the curtain on Bernie Mac’s life—not only as an icon, but as a father, husband, and everyday man—sharing his humble Chicago upbringing, the family’s struggles before fame, and ultimately, how Je’Niece and her mother weathered the costs and challenges of Bernie’s pursuit of his dreams. Je’Niece opens up about her own journey, processing her father’s fame, the impact on their family, and the personal toll of his health battles leading up to his untimely passing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adjusting to Life Changes: Motherhood, Fasting, and New Beginnings

[05:09]

• Je’Niece shares her recent transition into being an “empty nester” after dropping her daughter at college.
  • “Big change. Dropped my daughter off at college... came in with a bang.”
• Talks about the relief and rest she’s looking forward to and her hope for the time ahead.
• Ebony relates her own experience, connecting over both being only children.

[07:29]

• Ebony thanks Je’Niece for coming, sharing how Bernie Mac’s ethos (“study your craft and be confident”) helped reframe her own ideas around success.

[07:43] Fasting as a Tool for Clarity

• Je’Niece opens up about fasting during her father’s last days:
  • “The week that my dad died, I was in the middle of a fast... I did a full seven days.”

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2. “Them Kids” and Bernie Mac’s Storytelling Legacy

[08:20]

• The “kids” from Bernie Mac’s stand-up (“milk and cookies” routine) weren’t actual nephews and nieces living in their household:
  • “There are no little kids... it was just a joke. It’s loosely based on real life.”
  • The inspiration: Bernie took in family in a cramped two-bedroom apartment, blending stories from real life and friends into his routine.
• The artistry of painting a compelling, believable story is highlighted as Bernie Mac’s comedic superpower.

[10:26] The Rawness & Relatability of Bernie Mac

• Ebony and Je’Niece reflect on the bold, family-rooted humor of Bernie’s stand-up — filtering real Black family dynamics onto the stage.
  • “My dad had this gift where he made people feel like they knew him.” [11:11, Je’Niece]
  • His style: “no-nonsense filter” and ability to “talk about busting a kid’s head to the white meat” and still have the audience crack up.

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3. “Would His Jokes Work Today?” — Cancel Culture and Changing Times

[12:07]

• Je’Niece believes Bernie’s style would land “yes and no” in today’s climate.
• Shares a vivid story from {Barack Obama’s fundraising event ([12:27])} that went viral due to one audience member calling him “sexist”:
  • “He was like, dude, it’s a joke. If you don’t like it, just don’t laugh.”
• Explains that backlash was growing even before social media exploded, and that Bernie “got a taste” of cancel culture before his death.

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4. Je’Niece’s Own Childhood and Hard Lessons from Dad

[14:11]

• Je’Niece clarifies she was more “Jordan” than “Vanessa” from The Bernie Mac Show—a sensitive, non-fighter at heart.
• Shares a pivotal childhood bullying story:
  • “I cried. It hurt. Like, duh, man. When I say he was—he was like, ‘Oh no.’ He started punching the wall... Tomorrow, you better get on that bus and punch that n*** back.”* [17:22: Je’Niece]
• Under parental pressure, Je’Niece finally stood up for herself, realizing “that unleashed something,” using mischief as her armor.

[20:45] Real Talk about Raising Tough Kids

• Ebony and Je’Niece reflect on generational approaches to self-defense and resilience.
• Je’Niece: “He could have taught me self-defense skills without... scaring the feeling at me.”

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5. Bernie and Rhonda—A Portrait of Resilience in Marriage

[21:25] Relationship Dynamics

• Je’Niece describes her parents as “two sides of the same coin,” bonded over young love and shared childhood wounds.
• Bernie’s dream to be a comedian was his alone; Rhonda “held it down” for their daughter and family while he chased success.

[27:03] On Sacrifice and Regret

• Je’Niece’s view: Her mom is “acutely aware” of what she gave up to support Bernie’s dream but not filled with regret.
  • “Everything my mom did, she would have done regardless of if he chose his profession or not.”

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6. The “Grind Years”: Struggle Before Success

[28:18–34:37]

• The Mac family faced real hardship—lay-offs, car repossession, frequent moves, utilities cut off, money stress.
  • “I remember the car got repossessed... I’m five... just know we come out and the car is gone.” [28:33]
  • “Money is a big—we got a problem with money. We ain’t got none.” [33:58]
• Bernie rarely let his family see his internal stress, always projecting optimism:
  • “He never wavered from: ‘I know this is what it looks like right now, but it’s going to be this.’” [34:37]
• His mantra: He was the dreamer; Rhonda was the realist.

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7. “Success Wasn’t Overnight”—Climbing the Comedy Ladder

[36:46–41:00] Major Life Events

• Winning $3,000 in a comedy contest was a huge deal (“we have $3,000! We’re rich now!”), but “nothing really changed just yet.”
• Each career milestone (Def Comedy Jam debut, tour with Martin Lawrence, awards) was just another “stair step,” not instant abundance.
  • “Def Jam didn’t pay... we’re still in our one-bedroom apartment.” [39:21]
  • The cost of success — as Bernie traveled more for work, Je’Niece and Rhonda created their own routines, leading to familial “friction” when he returned.
  • Je’Niece: “You can have a dream, but it’s gonna cost you something.” [41:02]

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8. Redefining Success & Self-Worth

[46:15–47:34]

• Je’Niece’s version of success was never about fame or being “seen and known”—it was about “finding something I love doing and doing that.”
  • Her own career included non-profit work, a stint as Bernie’s assistant, and training as a therapist (“never got licensed”).
• Grew up believing in “harmony in our relationships,” not public acclaim.
• Watching Bernie build success late in life instilled the lesson that “nothing’s impossible.”
  • “Having a front row seat to watching my dad go from people going, ‘look at this Black—he talking about he funny...’ to ‘oh, my god, he’s the—oh, you’re...’ to seeing that happen.” [47:34]

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9. Health Struggles: Sarcoidosis, Diabetes, and the Toll of Fame

[50:45] First Signs & Denial

• Bernie Mac was diagnosed with sarcoidosis (a rare autoimmune disease) around 1986, then hypertension and diabetes later.
  • “When he got diagnosed with diabetes, that was the—like, whoa.” [51:26]
• Bernie struggled to accept some diagnoses and hid the seriousness from the public.

[57:57–68:14] Medical Decisions and Systemic Pressures

• Bernie hated taking prednisone (a steroid), tried other immune suppressants with bad reactions, leading to hospitalizations that got media attention.
• Pressure from industry, studios, and even producers during his illness was, at times, heartless:
  • “So if he pull a Red Foxx and die on set, facts—what y’all gonna do? ‘Cause then there’s no show.’” [60:47]
• His stubbornness around his health (“I’m going to get off prednisone”) is cited by Je’Niece as a painful factor in his decline.
  • She recalls: “I was pissed. You did this. Yeah, you did this.” [65:43]

[68:14] Bernie’s Awareness of His Mortality

• Je’Niece reflects that Bernie always said he wouldn't live to be an old man.
  • “He always said it. He didn’t believe he was going to live to see his 50th birthday.”
• Shares a poignant story about sensing the end after seeing him on set in 2008, not knowing if it was about death or just retiring.

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Notable Quotes

• On Bernie’s relatability and style:
  “My dad had this gift where he made people feel like they knew him... there’s something about my dad that people feel like they are literally watching their uncle or their dad or... cousin.”
  — Je’Niece [11:11]

• On the cost of success:
  “You can have a dream, but it's gonna cost you something.”
  — Je’Niece [41:02]

• On parenting and generational toughness:
  “I completely understand the energy behind what my dad was trying to teach me. I just wish he’d gone about it a different way... you could have taught me self-defense skills without scaring—the feeling at me.”
  — Je’Niece [20:58]

• On never giving up:
  “He never wavered from. I know this is what it looks like right now, but it’s going to be this.”
  — Je’Niece [34:37]

• On Bernie’s self-belief:
  “To me, is like the king of speaking life over himself. There's never been a time that I can remember that he wasn't like, I'm gonna... This is what's gonna happen... there was never a it's not gonna happen.”
  — Je’Niece [36:46]

• On Hollywood’s ruthlessness:
  “So if he pull a Red Foxx and die on set, facts—what y'all gonna do?”
  — Je’Niece [60:47]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:09] Je’Niece talks about being an empty nester and embracing change.
• [07:43] Fasting experiences and the death of Bernie Mac.
• [08:20] “Them kids” from comedy routines—myth vs. reality.
• [11:11] Bernie Mac’s relatable comedic style.
• [12:27] Early “cancel culture” at Obama’s fundraiser.
• [14:11–20:45] Je’Niece’s childhood, bullying, and lessons in self-defense.
• [21:25–27:03] Bernie and Rhonda’s relationship; dreams, sacrifice, and support.
• [28:18–34:37] Family struggles and financial hardship before fame.
• [36:46–41:02] Not-so-overnight success; stair-step career milestones.
• [46:15–47:34] Defining personal success—influence of Bernie’s journey.
• [50:45–68:14] Bernie’s health battles, decisions, family struggles, and Hollywood pressures.
• [68:14] Bernie’s premonition about his mortality.

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Memorable Moments

• Ebony and Je’Niece laughing about the “milk and cookies” joke and how Black families took kids to inappropriate movies and shows:
  “Black people take kids anywhere!” [10:39, Ebony]
• Je’Niece’s vivid retelling of being bullied and then “unleashing something” after finally fighting back; a powerful microcosm of tough love parenting in Black families.
• Emotional honesty regarding her father’s health struggles: anger, frustration, and making peace with his choices.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The interview is candid, intimate, and warm—ebony and Je’Niece share laughs, swap family stories, and offer vulnerable moments of grief, frustration, and deep love. The language is funny, down-to-earth, and frequently laced with Black cultural references, making it relatable and deeply human.

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Closing

This first part ends with Ebony teeing up Part 2, promising more emotion and depth in the next installment. Je’Niece’s reflections offer a window into a legendary performer’s personal sacrifice—and remind listeners that behind the superstar, there was a family, a dream, and a cost.

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Connect with Ebony:
IG/TikTok: @prettyprivatepodcast | YouTube: The Professional Homegirl

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For those who haven’t listened:
This episode provides a riveting account of Bernie Mac’s journey—his relentless pursuit of comedy, the gritty family grind behind the scenes, and the bond and sometimes the pain of dedication to one’s dreams. Je’Niece offers wisdom on resilience, self-worth, and making peace with messy, complicated legacies.

Transcript

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to Pretty Private with Ebon a a space where no question is off limits and storylines become lifelines. The views shared by our guests are meant to inform, entertain, and empower. From the laughs to the lessons. Just remember, tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do. Enjoy the show.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

What's up, y'? All? It's your girl Ebony here, and I hope all is cute now. Welcome back to another episode of Pretty Private with Ebony, where storylines become lifelines. In today's episode, I am truly honored and excited to to be sitting down with Janiece McCullough, the daughter of the late, great Bernie Mac. Now, in part one of our conversation, Janiece gives us a real update on them kids that was asking for some milk and cookies. And she opens up about what it was like watching her father, the legendary Bernie Mac, achieve success later in life. We talk about their humble beginnings, the grind before the fame, and the moments that shape who who he was long before we all knew his name. And she also shares when she first noticed that something wasn't right with her father's health and how those moments change everything. So, y', all, this conversation was so good because not only does it give us a glimpse into the iconic Bernie Max life as an icon, but also as a father, a husband, and a friend. So get ready, because my amazing conversation with Janiece Said starts now. Oh, my God, y'.

[Andrea Gunning]

All.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So I am super excited to have my guest on the show. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Janiece, how you doing? How you feeling?

[Janiece McCullough]

Thank you for having me. I'm feeling, feeling good, good, good.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And happy New Year. How's your new year treating you?

[Janiece McCullough]

Happy New Year's treating me all right. You know, lots of started off with a bang. Big change. Dropped my daughter off at college, so it's her first semester away, so that was came in with a bang. Like, boof. Here you go.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

She's an empty nester now, y'. All. What are you looking forward to? Like, are you going to try anything new?

[Janiece McCullough]

Mainly right now, the main thing is I'm looking forward to just being able to rest I feel like we just. All the ripping and running we were doing, trying to get her situated, it's a lot too. Oh, my God. And it. And I. You know, and I was one of those organized moms that had my list of like, okay, we need to take care of all of these things. Then we got there, and it was like, oh, we still need some of this stuff. And we were ripping and running, trying to get stuff. So for me right now, just to be able to come back and not have to do anything has been like, oh, is this what this feels like? Yeah. Okay.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I feel like you're gonna have a good time, though.

[Janiece McCullough]

I do, too. I do. This is. I told her. I said, you know, I know this is a big change, but I feel like this is going to be good for both of us. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Because she's your only child, right?

[Janiece McCullough]

My only. Yes.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Oh, so y' all have that in common because you was the only child, too.

[Janiece McCullough]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Okay. Well, listen, Janice, I feel like you're gonna have a good time. She's not open to dating y', all, so don't be in her DMs. But.

[Janiece McCullough]

No, please don't. Please don't, because I will leave you on red. I prom. I will. Right, Right.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Well, I am super grateful to have you on this show. I watched a lot of your interviews. I love your podcast, Bernie's Daughter. I watch your dad's interviews and obviously old movies and stuff. But two. Two of the main reasons why I'm really excited to have this conversation with you is because, one, when I was watching your interviews, I felt like I was hearing myself, because, like your father, I thought my grandmother was going to live forever because she was my superhero. And then two, today is my last day of my fast, so I've been trying. Yeah, so I've been trying to, like, you know, reprogram my thoughts around what success looks like. And when I was looking at your dad's old interviews and stuff, one of the things that he always said was just, like, you know, study your craft and be confident. And I feel like just hearing those messages kind of played a part in, like, my reprogramming. So I really appreciate you spending some time with little me.

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh, I love it. How long have you been fasting?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Okay, so this is my first time fasting, so I wanted to take it easy. So I did this fast for three days. So I think next month I'm gonna probably do a little bit longer, but I did receive a lot of clarity.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes. Yeah, it'll do that. Yeah. Have you fast before? I sure have, yeah. Actually, the week that my dad died, I was in the middle of a fast. I was in the middle of. I think I started out like I said I was going to do four days, and then he got hospitalized. So I said, well, I'll just keep it going for the full week. You know, just. Man, I did a full seven days. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

See, I want to do seven days, but I'm like, I gotta pace myself because.

[Janiece McCullough]

No, you were smart. You were smart to start it off with three and then see how you handled that and then go from there. No, that was smart. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Now, before we get into it, I gotta ask the number one question.

[Janiece McCullough]

Okay. How are those kids doing? And I always feel so bad when I have to tell people there are no little kids.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I know.

[Janiece McCullough]

And it. You can see the heartbreak on people's faces when they ask me. And I had to tell them, oh, I'm sorry, that was just a joke.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And you can see like, what a great joke.

[Janiece McCullough]

Exactly. And you. And people are like, wait, there's no Denise and nephew. There's no. And I'm like, no, baby, it was just a joke. It's loosely based on real life. My senior year in high school, he took in my mom's niece, my maternal cousin. She was 18 and she had a two year old daughter. So he brought them in to live with us. And while that was happening, a good friend of his took in, I think, her niece and nephew because her sister was on drugs. So, you know, as it does when you're dealing with, you know, blended families, and at the time that he did it with us, we were only living in a two bedroom apartment. So he brought like all of us in this two bedroom apartment, downtown Chicago. Like, you know, so between all the shenanigans with us and you know, his friend, he just morphed that into a joke and that's how that came about.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Listen. What a lot of fat. Cause, baby, you got a TV show off of this. I remember going to see Kings of Comedy when I was a kid. I don't know who I was with with somebody adult. And I just remember the whole milk and cookies joke and like the, the language he was using to describe the nephew and stuff. And I'm just like, yo, the fact that this was not real is crazy.

[Janiece McCullough]

He painted a great picture. Like he. I see why people believed it, but yeah, he, he. It just to me shows what a great storyteller he was. And you just brought up something that I always find hilarious. I used to always marvel, like, before now that kids are like, I love Uncle Bernie. It makes sense. He had the TV show.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

Prior to the TV show, I. You had no business.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I know. I was like, wow. Because when I was. I had, like, a. I had remembered some things, and I'm like, why was I at this movie? And who was I with? Because it was so inappropriate.

[Janiece McCullough]

That's.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I'm like, yo, black people take kids anywhere.

[Janiece McCullough]

They don't care. They did it to me. They took me to see Scarface. I was like, four. Like, why five years old, took me to see Scarface. And I'm sitting there watching Al Pacino, you know, shoot up, snort cocaine and do all kind of. Yeah, right, right, girl.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So what do you think stood out the most about your dad's comedy that people miss the most? Because I feel like, for me, when I was watching it, I'm like, damn. I kind of missed the rawness. Like, you could just say whatever you want to say and there's no repercussions.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. I think it's that. And I think. I don't know. My dad had this gift where he made people feel like they knew him. Yeah. So, you know, there are lots of celebrities that, you know, people gravitate toward for a number of different reasons, but I don't think there are that many that you feel like that's family. Yeah. And there's something about my dad that people feel like they are literally watching their uncle or their dad or, you know, their cousin. And I really think that's a big part of it as well as, like, what you said, his no nonsense filter. There's not too many comedians that could talk about busting a kid's head to the white meat show, and people crack up laughing at it. Like, that is child abuse.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

They would call the people on you.

[Janiece McCullough]

Exactly.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So do you feel like his jokes will land now in today's climate?

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes and no. I feel like. And he got a little taste of it right before he died. When Barack Obama was running for president, they had a fundraiser in Chicago, and my dad performed at the fundraiser, and this was, like, really one of his tamer sets, because he knew.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I can imagine.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. Contrary to what people like to think, he had sense he wasn't just gonna go anywhere and say some. Anything. But he did a bit because my mom was going through menopause at that, and he did a bit about her going through menopause, and it really was only, like, one or two people at the event that just didn't like the joke. And yelled out, you're sexist. That's such a misogynistic, sexist joke. And he was like, dude, it's a joke. If you don't like it, just don't laugh. And the next day, it got blown up into epic proportions. It was on the front page of the paper. Like, bernie Maxis bunch of goes on a sexist tirade at Barack Obama's fundraising event. And it was on the news and Entertainment Tonight and everywhere. So he'd gotten a little taste of it before he died, of the backlash that could happen. And I feel like that's what it would be today. I feel like the vast majority of people would still be laughing at him, but it'd be that small subset of people that are like, you can't. How dare you say that? No. Right. You know, and especially now with social media being what it is. Because in 2008, it wasn't quite what it is now. Yeah, I think it'd be that.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Wait, Janie. So the people who yelled out, were they white?

[Janiece McCullough]

You already know. Oh, now you know. Cause you know it wasn't us. I know, I know, I know.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yo, I love asking a race question when I'm talking to certain people.

[Janiece McCullough]

Because you already know the answer, right?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Because you know that man ain't sexist. Shut up.

[Janiece McCullough]

His wife is sitting right there, and

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

she probably cracking up with Michelle and Obama, like.

[Janiece McCullough]

And I do. Yes, I do. Right, right.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Okay. So what was young Janiece like growing up in Chicago?

[Janiece McCullough]

So I tell people this all the time because people think Vanessa from the TV show is after me. I was Jordan.

[Andrea Gunning]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

Young Denise was. I wasn't shy. And there are some family members who think I was shy. It wasn't that I was shy. I was scared of my dad. He made everything a big deal. Like the way he talked to Jordan. That's how he used to talk to me. So you gotta string. The world gonna spit you. Eat you up and spit you. And I'd be looking at him like, wait, what? Like that episode where he's trying to toughen Jordan up and he's trying to teach him how to play the dozens. And he's like, you gotta talk about his mama. Tell him, go for the juggler. Right? Yeah. Your mom's so fat. I put a tablespoon of water and she got in and it overflowed. And Jordan is like, now, Uncle Bernie, that's on me. What if I like his mama? That's me. That was young Janiece. Young Janiece was just like, I Just love everybody, and everybody should love each other. And if we just love each other, all the world's problems will be solved. And he probably used to roll his

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

eyes looking at you, girl.

[Janiece McCullough]

He was like, man, if you don't toughen up. And I've told this story before on the pocket and got a whole lot of backlash about it. I don't know why, but I remember I was 9, and I used to have to ride the bus because I got bullied. I got bullied from kindergarten all the way. All the way through sixth grade.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Oh, wow.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. And then we would. After first grade, we moved out of my school district. But because we moved so much, my dad didn't want me to have to change schools, so they hired a private bus company to take me to and from school. So I would get bullied on the bus on the way to and from school and get bullied at school. Wow. And one particular day, one of the boys on the bus punched me in my eye.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

He punched you in your eye?

[Janiece McCullough]

Punched me dead in my eye. By the time I got to school, I had a black eye. And I remember.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Wait, wait, Janie, did you punch back?

[Janiece McCullough]

No, Janice. And it wasn't because I didn't know how to fight. I didn't like fighting. Yeah. I didn't like the energy behind fighting. Even with my cousins, when we would get into fight, I was the type you had to really, really push, get

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

you to that point.

[Janiece McCullough]

And then I would explode. And then everybody's like, whoa, I didn't know she.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And this whole murder scene, right.

[Janiece McCullough]

That was me. And to your point about, did I punch him back? By the time I get home, you know, my bus driver, Reverend Cherry, has to go let my dad know. Hey, we had an incident this morning on the bus. So my dad is pissed. And I remember he cussed that little boy out. So he was like, you little fat fuck, don't you ever touch my door. Like, he. And I'm behind my dad, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we get back in the house, and he's like, now what'd you do when that little fat motherfucker punched you? I'm thinking it's a trick question. I'm like, I cried. It hurt. Like, duh, man. When I say he was. He was like, oh, no. He started punching the wall. He was like, what the is wrong with you? And he looked at me, he said, tomorrow, you better get on that bus and punch that nigga back. He said, you better whoop that little fat motherfucker's Ass. Cause if you don't, I' ma whoop your ass.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

So now I'm like, oh, shoot. Because like I said again, it wasn't that I couldn't fight. I just didn't like it. I didn't. And I'm like, but why? You already did it. He was like, man, you better do it. So I remember I got on the bus, and it was one of the older kids. We used to call her Yummy. I don't know why. I don't know why we would call this little girl Yummy back in the day we used to get away with. Right? Because Yummy for a kid is crazy. Right before a grammar school kid. Yeah. Yummy was her name. And I remember, I was like, could you beat him up for me? And I just go home and tell my dad I beat him up. And I. I remember clear as day. She said, normally I would. I'd love to be able to beat him up, but he ain't did nothing to me today, so I can't beat him up today. You're gonna have to do it. She said, but I'll keep watch for you so you don't get in trouble. Like, you go back there. He was sleep on the. In the very back of the van. He was sleep. She was like, just go punch him in his back and just start beating him up. You can do it. And I'm looking like, shout out to Yummy. Yeah. She had my back. She really did. And I'm like, no. And we're getting closer and closer to her. Stop. And she was like, look, you better hurry up and do it, because I'm not gonna be able to help you. Once I waited till we, like, rounded the corner of her block. And then finally, because I'm. It's like I'm taking the green mile. Like, I'm doing the green mile, the long walk to the back. Like, right. I'm looking at her like.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And Yummy, like, go, go, go.

[Janiece McCullough]

You're right. And she like. And I'm like. She like, come on. I'm just like, oh, no. So finally, I get the nerve, too, and I punch him dead in his back. And he wakes up out of his sleep crying. And I just start letting him have it. And she's like, yes, get him, get him, get him. Do it, do it. Do it. Get it. He's crying. Reverend Cherry had to stop the bus. Like, oh, Lord, what is going on?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

These Dale kids.

[Janiece McCullough]

And honestly, that unleashed something. From that moment on, I started acting rowdy on the bus because that was the only time I didn't get bothered. Yeah. And I remember, Reverend Cherry. I remember it was one. One day, we must have clowned so bad. He stopped in the middle of the street and was like, dog, darn it, you kids. And I'll never forget, he looked at me and said, janiece, you used to be the good one. And I felt bad because, like I said, that really wasn't me. Yeah. And I. I remember I was the last stop on the bus going home. And right when he got to my house that day, I said, reverend Sherry, I'm sorry for being bad today, but I'm gonna let you know I'm gonna do it again tomorrow because that's the only time that they don't mess with me. So as long as the other kids are on the bus, I'm gonna be bad.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I gotta stand up for myself.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. Right. When. When they're gone and it's just us, I'll be myself. But. And that's how it was.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And what did your dad say?

[Janiece McCullough]

So I. I was so proud to go home and tell him I beat him up. I was so proud. I was like, dad, I did it. I did it. And he was proud. He was like, yeah, what'd you do? How'd you do it? Had me. And I was like, oh. And I did it like this. And I punched him. And he was crying and I kept punching him. I really did. Like, he was so proud. Like. And I just felt so proud. Like, yes, I made my dad proud. Yay.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Oh, that's such an important lesson, though, because I think about when I was growing up and my mom used to always be like, you better not come home with no scratches on your face. Like, you better fight back. But it also taught me how to be tough and also just stand up for myself. Yes.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. That's the thing. Like, I completely understand the energy behind what my dad was trying to teach me. I just wish he'd gone about it a different way. Yeah. Where he didn't have me terrified of him. Because I'm like, you could have taught me self defense skills without, like, scaring putting the feeling at me.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Right.

[Janiece McCullough]

Right. You. You. I'm terrified now because I'm like, what? Yeah. So. But I completely get it. I. I really do. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

One thing I love about your family story is the bond between your mom and dad. Like, I think it is such a beautiful love story. Like, what do you think about them? Made them, like, made it so special.

[Janiece McCullough]

Honestly, I just feel like. I feel like they were two sides of the same coin, honestly. Yeah, I really do. When I look at my parents because they were so young, when they had young got together, I really and they had some of the same issues. Like my dad didn't know his biological father, my mom really didn't know hers. My biological maternal grandfather, my grandmother divorced him when my mom was 5 and he was one of those men, you know, as long as he was married to my grandmother, he was an involved dad. And you know, my mom was a daddy's girl. As soon as my grandmother divorced me, he was like, well, F you and F them kids. And that was it. So they had that thing in common that I think that they could relate to each other with. And I just think they they weathered the storms together. Like they because I'm not gonna sit here and try to pretend like it was. I don't know if you could see behind the veil, y' all might have looked at my parents like, right? But I think that they both had a commitment to seeing their relationship and their marriage through.

[Martha Stewart]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret when prepping for cooking and baking, get ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Just lightly wet the counter so the paper grips. Lay it down and drips and spills stay on the paper, not on your counter. Cleanup is as simple as lifting it away to reveal clean counters. Effortless it is thanks to Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep paper Wet it, set it, prep it, done. Available in the Reynolds Wrap aisle at Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Costco.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Instead of giving your mom something that fades, give her something that becomes part of her home this Mother's Day. The Lenox Spice Village is a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook, entertain, or enjoy the little details that make everyday life special. As a mom, I love gifts that help turn ordinary moments into memories. Charming, timeless and meant to be used. This is one of those pieces she'll treasure. And once you see it, you'll want it for your own home too. Find the full [e-mail] SpiceVillage this is

[Andrea Gunning]

Andrea Gunning from Betrayal. Find home wherever you roam at Sinesta Es and simply suites where longer stays feel comfortable, flexible and easy. Stretch out and enjoy spacious accommodations and homelike amenities designed to help you settle in and stay productive or relaxed for however long you need. And when you're a Sonesta TravelPass member staying at Sinesta ES and simply suites means earning points towards free nights, upgrades and more with every eligible stay. Go to Sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock the best rates with Sonessa Travel Pass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply.

[Janiece McCullough]

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[Janiece McCullough]

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[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

what's up y'?

[Janiece McCullough]

All?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

It's your girl Ebony here. And be sure to follow me on Instagram and TikTok at pretty private podcast. And don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel at the Professional Homegirl. Now let's get back to the show. I mean, I can only imagine from 19 to up to his passing. Like I can only imagine the storms that they endured.

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Like especially with him being on the road and stuff.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. And it's. And, and one of the things that I don't think people realize is his dream of becoming a comedian wasn't a joint dream. That wasn't something that parents share together. That was his dream. Like that's one of the things my mom even told me that he like the first. I don't know if we can call it as a date because they had a half day at school and her friend was going with his friend. So that's kind of how they wound up getting together. But she said on the bus ride to whoever's house they were going to, he told her, girl, you better get on this train or get left. Like he told me. He said, I'm, I'm gonna be f. I'm gonna be rich. I'm gonna be famous. I'm gonna be a comedian. You better get on this train and get left. It's always been his dream. So it wasn't like it was, you know, oh, this was something they brainstormed together. It was his. So my mom held it down for him to go live his dream, you know, at the expense of some of her own.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

You think she regret that?

[Janiece McCullough]

I don't know if it's so much regret as it is. I Think she's acutely aware of what she gave up. Yeah, I believe she's acutely aware of that. I don't know if it's regret because, I mean, it did all work out in everybody's favorite.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Right.

[Janiece McCullough]

So I don't know if it's so much regret, but I. I do believe that she is absolutely aware. Yeah. Hey, I sacrificed all of this, you know, for. To help him, which, I mean, it's true. There's a lot. And I'm not. I'm well aware that everything my mom did, she would have done regardless of if he. He chose his profession or not. He could have, you know, been a regular Joe working at a bank or whatever, and she still would have been doing the same thing. She did. But I also can't take away from the fact that her doing what she did made it much easier for him. You can go on the road, you know, and I'm here with this baby. Right. You can be on the road and do what you do on the road without worrying about how your kid is being taken care of. Yeah, you can do that freely. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So what do you remember most about those grind years? Because, you know, your dad was building, but he wasn't really yet like Bernie Mac to all of us. And I feel like when I watched those years, because he actually, he didn't really get that much commercial success until as he got older.

[Janiece McCullough]

It was much later by the time I. That's one of the things that I tell people all the time, especially like when I get lumped into the. Oh, you're a Nepo baby. I'm like, am I though, right? I'm grown. I was. But, yeah, like by the time the fame came, I was in college. You know, there was some stuff happening while I was in high school, but the bulk of it, like the height of his fame. I was grown when that happened. Yeah, I just, I remember the struggle. Like, I absolutely remember the struggle because when my parents first got married, you know, for some kids in 1977, they were doing all right because my great grandfather had got my dad a job at General Motors, and then he still had some of the insurance money from my paternal grandmother's death. So 1977, two 19 year old kids, you know, get. They're doing all right. Yeah. They're like, oh, okay, we got our little. Right. We got our apartment, we got our car. We doing it fancy. Exactly. And then right before I entered kindergarten, he got laid off. And that's when it was like, what. What happened? What is what Is this, like. I remember the car got repossessed, but, you know, I'm. I'm five. I don't know. I just know we come out and the car is gone. And I'm like, somebody stole that, right? Somebody stole that car. And they're just like, yeah, right. Dog on shame. And we were carless for, you know, years after that. I'm like, can you believe we had a car? Somebody stole it. We ain't had a car since, like. And we just.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

We struggled.

[Janiece McCullough]

We lost the apartment. That's when we had some, you know, live with my maternal grandparents. I mean, my paternal great grandparents for a while. And we. That's when we started. We moved a lot. Like, I. I remember being that kid that I used to feel so bad. Cause all my friends had one house, you know, and that's when we had little phone books. You wrote everybody's name and number down in your little phone book. And I would always have to come to my friends. Like, that's not my address and phone number anymore, y'. All. This is my new address and phone number. And it went that way for pretty much the rest of my childhood. And I just remember one. There are two pivotal moments that I remember that made me feel like money is. I knew that the gravity of what not having money held.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

One is my mom. We were at my maternal grandmother's house, and my mom was with her mom and sisters. And she was really upset because we. We didn't have any money. And I remember she broke down crying, like, I mean, just full on. She's like, God, I don't know. What did I do? Like, what. Why are we going through this? Why is this our life? And I remember just seeing my mom crying, and one of my aunts was like, oh, baby, don't worry. Your mom just having a nervous breakdown real quick. She'll be all right.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

We just broke right now, baby.

[Janiece McCullough]

Don't worry. Like, that's. That's it. And I. And quiet is kept like, my mom's, you know, family wasn't really necessarily most supportive of my dad trying because, like, I tell people. You can tell people today you want to be a comedian. Yeah, exactly. Back then, you tell somebody you want to be a comedian, and folks are looking at you like, if you don't get.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And that's why his story hits different.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

You know, it's completely different. Back then, sure, there were comedians, but that was some far off stuff. Like, that was. If you don't get your black ass up and go get a job so, yeah, it was that. And then the second moment I remember we had gotten an apartment on 82nd in Peoria, which is on the south side of Chicago. And they, I guess they did some like, rent a center type stuff to get the furniture and. And what a throwback. Yeah. And my dad at that time, he was working at Doc's, which was a fast food restaurant, so fish and stuff. And he was the manager of the restaurant and my mom was a nurse. They were so far behind that there was a garnishment order put in. It went to my dad first because he was the, the main, you know, loan, and my mom was just the co signer, but because he was the manager, he threw it away. So, okay, right. So they can't get his paycheck. They get my mama's paycheck. So she comes home, his do you know, my check get. And I, I hear them going back and forth arguing. So I'm like, I don't know. I'm like nine. I'm like eight or nine. I'm like, what does garnishment? So I go, you know, and this is before the age of Google kids we could not Google, right? I had the big, you know, Encyclopedia Britannica set with the dictionary. I was like, let me look up what garnishment. I look it up and I'm like, oh, oh, oh. That's what that means. So that's. I, like, I knew. Those were the two moments that I remember, like, understanding that money is a big. We got a problem with money. We ain't got none. Yeah, big problem. And these are, these are issues. And my dad was the type,

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

he didn't.

[Janiece McCullough]

And I've inherited this from him. So I understand it now on this level so much more than I did as a kid. He carried a lot of stuff internally and didn't let you see it. So if you looked at him, you operated under the guise of, oh, he's fine, everybody's okay. Yeah, or he doesn't. He's not taking this that serious. Like. And I remember they were arguing and my mom was like, what are we going to do? Like, bernard, we got to pay this. And I remember him just calmly saying, rhonda, we ain't got it. So what you want us to do?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Ain't nothing we can do, can't do, right?

[Janiece McCullough]

And that's really what. And that's what he said. He said, there's nothing we can do.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Ain't no point in stressing out, right?

[Janiece McCullough]

And that's pretty much where he was. And he never he never wavered from. I know this is what it looks like right now, but it's going to be this, you know, and my mom, I always tell people my dad was the dreamer, My mom is the realest. My mom was like, negro, I ain't got time to hear about what you said. Well, we gonna be in the here and now. We are not.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I know she was stressed with him, man.

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh, absolutely. You know, and again, it's. And this is, this is the only reason why I keep saying to people, like, keep in mind this is not a shared dream.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

This is not a. Yes, this is you. Like, I'm sacrificing all this while you go out there playing, telling jokes and crap. Right, Bruh, what are you doing? Like, I get it, you know, I. I understand. Like I said, now that I'm grown, I fully get it. And so because she was at home raising me, to her, it looks like you out there having fun. Right? No matter how much he's explaining you, you. You hear all the time from comedians. Being on the road is not glamorous. Even being in the comedy clubs, you know, honing your craft, it's not glamorous. But to the people who are there, you know, on the sidelines, they can't see. All she know is you came home from work, you ate, you showered, you left about 9 o', clock, you ain't come back till 2, 3, 4 in the morning. You look like you've been having a grand old time. Right? But like. And he's like, no, that's not what it is. So there was a lot of friction there because, you know, they're not on the same page. And you, if you've watched interviews with my mom, you have heard her say, well, I just finally said, no, you go ahead and do it. Because if he didn't make it, I didn't want him looking at me and saying, yeah, she, she has said that. So it was those early years were. They were some. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And now it makes sense because I did see a clip where I think he won like $3,000. And your mom was going in. She, baby, you would thought Jesus was there. The way she was shouting.

[Janiece McCullough]

It was number one. He won first place. Yeah. Of the contest. And that was. Like I said, when, When I tell you my dad, to me, is like the king of speaking life over himself. There's never been a time that I can remember that he wasn't like, I'm gonna. This is what's gonna happen. Like, it's. There was never a. It's not gonna happen. If he had a thought that it might not happen, he kept that to himself. Yeah. He never.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

He was always sure.

[Janiece McCullough]

He was always like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be so. And I remember, like, they're, you know, going through who. You know, the. They. They say third place and I, I remember they announced the third place and then they go runner up and it's like, we ain't got no choice but to be him. Yeah. And then they say first place, Burning Man. And we. But. And my mom is just.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yo, she was screaming.

[Janiece McCullough]

And you can see my dad on

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

stage like, calm down, girl.

[Janiece McCullough]

Okay. He like, that's my wife. And she is still.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah, but I feel like she needed that, though. Like, that was a win for her as well.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, like, when we were backstage taking pictures with the check, I remember thinking, wow, 3,000. Oh, we're rich now. Yeah, we have $3,000. Girl, that money.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

But you listen, $3,000 is a lot of money.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes. Like back then, you know, we still went back to our. We went a two bedroom apartment by then. But yeah, it's.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Come on.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. But the funny thing is, and this is what I tell people all the time in his career, there were always these, I call them stair step moments because something would happen and it was like, this is the biggest, greatest thing that's ever happened. And it wasn't like it was an overnight change. So that was 1990. Nothing really changed just yet. Like, we still, you know, we're in our apartment and we actually got evicted out of that apartment and a one bedroom on 101st of kings.

[Martha Stewart]

Right?

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. It didn't change right away. So then, you know, that leads to. Now Russell Simmons and Bob Sumner are showcasing for this new show called Def Comedy Jam that is going to be coming on. And they, you know, he passes through the auditions for that. He gets on Def Jam. He does the first season, does pretty good, does well enough that they bring him back for the second season. And that's the. I ain't scared of you. That's that one.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Right?

[Janiece McCullough]

And that's like, wow. But what people didn't understand back then, Def Jam didn't pay. So he tells that we still enough. Our one bedroom apartment.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

Of Chicago. Like, we, we still there. That. So that's that. But then Def Jam makes Martin's career blow up. So Martin and Def Jam gets so big, not only are they now doing the TV show, they're doing a tour. Yeah. So with Martin leaving The show and going somewhere else. They're like, well, we need a host for the tour. So they asked my dad, hey, why don't you host the tour? So he starts hosting the Def Jam show.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Did he get paid for hosting?

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Okay.

[Janiece McCullough]

So that's when it started. Like, the momentum started to build, and that's when it was, you know, up until that point, when he was gone, he was gone locally in the city, you know, just at nightclubs and, you know, maybe a show out of town here or there. The Def Jam Corps was when it was like, no, he's gone. And that was. Get a new normal that I don't think any of us were prepared for. Because what wound up happening is. Well, now me and my mom are in a groove. Because you're gone, like, four. Four days. Four or five days. It was me and Ma, right? Yeah. Then you come. You come back and disrupted. Right. You disrupting the order, sir. Like. Like going somewhere, right? And he's upset. Like, this my. I'm on the road working for y', all, and this how I get, like,

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

y' all don't miss me.

[Janiece McCullough]

And it's not that we didn't miss him, but it's like, this is.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Y' all had your own routine.

[Janiece McCullough]

Exactly. And I. I don't think people realize, like, you can have a dream, but it's gonna cost you something. Yeah. So when. And I get a lot, people are like, thank you so much for sharing your day. Thank you so much for sacrificing. And I'm like, you can't tell me that I'm the kid. You can tell Rhonda that, because there are things Rhonda willingly sacrificed as his spouse. But I'm like, but I was the kid. I was the sacrifice. He sacrificed time, you know, And I understand why. I completely understand why and get the reason behind it. But, yeah, there's a sacrifice on that to where, by the time he does get it, where he's, you know, oh, we ain't got to worry about money no more. I can sit down and I can do this. I'm grown and getting married. And he looking at me like, what the hell you mean, you get right? You were just eight yesterday.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So much time has passed.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes. And so we bumped heads a lot during that time, because, like I said, I understand it today from his perspective. But back then, I was like, dude, what are you going through? But that was him. I'm missing so much, and by the time I get home, I'm like, hey, what's happening? And life is passing me by on this front. And then for him it feels like, like I said it. For him, it felt like it was thankless. Because a lot of times he would say, y' all don't understand what I go through. Y' all don't understand. And we're looking at him like, well, sir, nobody told you. The one that told us, you know,

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

it comes with a price.

[Janiece McCullough]

Be famous, right? We didn't tell you. Go out there and do this. You know, he everything I'm doing, I'm doing for y', all.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

But it's a little bit for you as well, right?

[Janiece McCullough]

Like, don't front and act like this ain't you, you know? So, yeah, it was a lot of. It was a lot of that.

[Martha Stewart]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret. Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread, or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking, prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters. The food, the people, and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know. It's Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it, done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens countertop prep paper, available now in the Reynolds scrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Costco.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. Every Mother's Day, I tell myself I'm going to be more thoughtful than flowers, because flowers are beautiful. But they don't last. In my house, everyone always ends up in the kitchen. Friends, family, the kids. And I love having things around that spark conversation and feel special. That's why I love the Lenox Spice Village. And your mom will, too. It's a set of 24 hand painted little houses that are actually spice jars. And I swear people notice the second they walk in. It's charming, it's nostalgic, and it somehow makes even everyday cooking feel a little more fun. And here's the best part. It actually gets used every day, whether you're starting the full set or helping her complete one she's loved for years There's a whole world of Spice Village to explore this Mother's Day. Give her something she'll treasure long after the card is put away. Trust me, once you see it, you'll want one too. Find the full [e-mail] Spice Village this

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I'm just curious, like, while you're watching him build his career and you see what it took for him to get

[Janiece McCullough]

to a certain point at a later

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

age, how did that shape how you define success for your own career? Because I know you worked in non profit. I know you was his assistant, and if I'm not mistaken, he was also a therapist. Right.

[Janiece McCullough]

Are you still our therapist? Well, I never got licensed.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Okay.

[Janiece McCullough]

So yeah. But for me, it. I never had grand visions like my dad. Success to me wasn't being seen and known and doing that. To me, success was always just about finding something that I love doing and doing that and hopefully making a decent living at it. Like, really? I never was that person. I was great at school. I was the student that everybody was like, oh, yeah, she's gonna be somebody. But I never was like, yes, right. That was never my thing. Like, for me it was. I was always more like, I just. I want to be loved. Like, let's. Let's live the Barney life. I love you.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

You know, I interviewed him. I'm gonna send the link because Barney was black.

[Janiece McCullough]

I know. Yes.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Shout out to David Joyner. Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yes. Like, that was always my vision of success. Can we have harmony in our relationships and stuff? So for me, watching my dad.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Damn, that was good.

[Janiece McCullough]

Can we have harmony yeah, yeah. Because I didn't see. I didn't see a lot of that. What I saw growing up were a lot of adults who I'm sure loved each other, but the harmony was always off. Like, even within my parents marriage, the harmony was always off. You got two people who have two different visions of what life is, and somebody's sacrificing and somebody's like, man, and this person. And it just. Can we all. Can we come together? Like, we all want the same thing, right? I want to love you, you want to love me, let's do so. That was always my thing. But for me, watching my dad, it did give me the sense that nothing's impossible like watching. Having a front row seat to watching my dad go from people going, look at this black. He talking about he funny. Okay. To where people are like, oh, my God, he's the. Oh, you're. To seeing that happen to watching him even just. I used to watch with bated breath when he would get on stage because that was a thing I didn't have. My dad had the confidence in his career. He wish you would tell him he wasn't funny. Say it there. I dare you to tell me, right? Watch me get on this stage and make your butt laugh for 40 minutes, 45 minutes. Watch me do it. And so when I remember, like, whenever they would call, you know, ladies and gentlemen, come to the stage. Where are you, Matt? And he'd get on stage, I'd be watching the audience like, oh, okay, Who? Cause I'm scared to know because I can only think. I don't have the guts to try to get on stage, laugh, you know, even now when people are like, oh, you should do comedy. No, no, I should not.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

You are mad funny though, because I

[Janiece McCullough]

was watching your videos and stuff. Okay, I'm gonna say this. And this is a thing my dad used to tell people all the time when they would go, man, I'm funny. How. How do I become a comedian? There's a huge difference between me sitting around and saying something that makes you laugh. You know, we're a conversation or having to say or do something versus me getting on a stage.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Janiece McCullough]

And now the. The only goal, my only objective is to make you laugh. There's an art form to comedy. I don't have that. And then I'm too cerebral and analytical. If a joke doesn't land, I don't know how to move on and do. I didn't work move on. I'mma stop mid routine. Okay, so I see that didn't Work for y'. All. Could you tell me why? Like, so. Because I thought it was funny, right? In my head, I thought it was gonna be like, so what didn't land for you? Right? Hold on, let me get my notes out. What didn't? And y' all will be like, man, what are you doing? You making us mad. I ain't here for your survey. Like, they would have booed you, sis. Move me so hard. Like, yeah. And I still. I'd be like, okay, I see y' all booing now. What made y' all want to boo me right now? Right? I don't have the gift to get on stage and do that. I can, you know, talk and do speaking and hosting and just happen to say something funny enough to carry it through. But 5, 10, 15 minutes of I'm non. I'm supposed to tell the story and make you laugh. Yeah.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Facts, facts. So at what point did you begin to sense that something was going on with your father's health?

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh, I always knew. He. So he got diagnosed with sarcoidosis when I was, like, six. I think I was about six years old when he was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. And unfortunately, it. Back then, I mean, same kind of same as now. If you talk to people who have been diagnosed, they don't know a whole lot about it. So his doctor basically was like, well, if this is pretty much your only symptom, which was he was, like, short of breath, more short of breath when he was, you know, playing basketball or boxing or whatever. They were like, just go ahead and live your life then. And so that was. That.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

That.

[Janiece McCullough]

So that was 86. And then I want to say, like, 89. 89 or 90, I think it was 89, he got diagnosed with hypertension. And then 99, he got diagnosed with diabetes. So I've always. Actually, when he got diagnosed with diabetes, that was the. Like, whoa. Because I was in college by then, and I remember my dad was a chain smoker up until, like, 96. I didn't know that. Oh, girl. Yeah. First it was cool and Cool miles. Then he went to. Not.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

You name the brands.

[Janiece McCullough]

Then he went to Salem's, then went to Newport. Okay.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Oh, listen, black people love some Newports, baby.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah, that was. He. He was a chain smoker. And what happened, why he stopped. And we used to get on him for years about quitting, and he would lie and say he quit, and we'd find the cigarettes, you know? And my freshman year in college, my mom lost, like, 86, 87 pounds, and he came home one day, and look, and he quit cold turkey. He said, hell, no. He said, all right, I ain't about to kill over and die. You move another man in my house to spend all my money on him? The hell no. And he quit smoking, like, just like that. And for me, like, my mom kind of. I gotta credit my mom with this. She, like, made us pay attention to our health more. So when she lost all that weight, she joined, like, a kickboxing class. She had started exercising.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Oh, she was active.

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh, yeah. So my sophomore year, I brought my roommate home for Thanksgiving, and my mom was like, why don't you girls come with me to my step aerobics class? And we're like, I mean, all right, I guess we got nothing to do. So we put on our little bike shorts, bra top, like, all right, let's go ahead. Five minutes into the class, we're in the back in the corner fighting. And I remember, clear as day, the instructor goes for all advanced moves. Watch Rhonda. And my mom is, come on, she hitting that man. Talk about, say, hold on. My mom about to be 40, and she just ran circles around me. I said, absolutely not. Not gonna be me. So I went back to school, and I was like, I need to join the gym. But, you know, they had me as broke college student, so I couldn't afford the gym. So then I was like, well, what's the Y looking like? I couldn't afford the Y. So I was like, what's Walmart looking like? I went and bought a bunch of video tapes, a bunch of exercise tapes, and I would work out. I would go to class and come back to my room and work out in class. And I did that from 96 up until, like. And I've. I've. Since then, I've always stayed active. So during that time, I remember, like, I started seeing results, and I got vain and was like, oh, I want arms like Angela Bassett. So I'm really about to start.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

She definitely had some arms.

[Janiece McCullough]

Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, I was on a mission to get my arms like Angela bassett. So that's 99. My dad got diagnosed with diabetes. And after that, that's when I was like, okay, yeah, I really want arms like Angela Bassett. But my dad got sarcoidosis, hypertension, diabetes, and hypertension. And diabetes runs in our family. And some reason, the paternal genes seem real strong in me. So I'm gonna have to do this less for vanity's sake and more to keep my health up, because I'll be John Brown if I wind up like them. So it's. I've always been very acutely aware of my dad's health. Again, if my dad was worried, he never vocalized it. He always had that don't nothing bother me, I bother it. And that's. He used to say it all the time because when he got diagnosed with diabetes, I remember I came home for the summer in 99. My aunt had a party in her house, so most of us were already at the party. My dad came later, and he got out of the limousine, and he was about 20, 25 pounds lighter. Like, it was visible, like, in my dad, as you can see, was never. He's never a big guy, like, I mean, tall and everything, but never, like. Right. Wait, why? And I'm looking at him like. And I knew better than to say it to him. I went to my mom, I said, what's your father? Yeah, he. I tell people the one thing about him. He was vain. You could not tell him he didn't look good. He. You. You want to fight, Tell him something. You know, you really don't look that great, baby, you ready to fight? Right? Get ready to fight, right? So I knew better than to say something to him. So I went to my mom, and I was like, what's wrong with my dad? Something's not. Like, I. I could just see it. And she was like, don't say anything to him. And I'm like, I know better. That's why I'm asking you, what's wrong with him? And she said, he has an appointment on Monday. We're going to go. And that's when he got diagnosed with diabetes. So it. It was always there. So by the end, when he started getting hospitalized and, you know, the public started becoming aware. It wasn't that it was a sudden onset. This was just years of it. And what happened is he. He did. The very first time he was hospitalized, you all didn't know about it. The public didn't know he had pneumonia. And he got taken to the hospital. We were able to keep that quiet. It was the second time he got pneumonia again. I can't remember. It wasn't that much later after the first time. And so for him, he hated being on prednisone because I think for him, getting diagnosed with diabetes, I think that hit too close to home because my great grandmother was a diabetic, and he wound up having her leg amputated, and she died shortly after her leg was amputated. So I think for him, that. That died. Yeah, that diagnosis was triggering and he was kind of, he was in denial about that diagnosis for a long time. Like, he would swear up and down, I didn't even have no symptoms. And my mother was like, that's a lie. He had births, he had excessive urination. He had like, she was listing all the symptoms. And he, no, I mean, I had that, but I have all of it. And I was like, you know, you don't have to have all of the symptoms.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

You still have some symptoms.

[Janiece McCullough]

You have it, sir. Yeah. So he went into this, this thing where he was like, it's the prednisone. Prednisone is why I got diabetes, because prolonged use of prednisone can lead to diabetes. But I'm like, you have a family history of it. So it, you know, so in his mind, he was like, I'm going to get off prednisone because prednisone is the reason for this. And if I get off prednisone, I'll be fine. And so that's when things started taking a nosedive. Because for whatever reason, corticosteroids seem to be the best treatment to keep sarcoidosis symptoms, you know, in check. So the next thing that his doctors gave, they were all immune suppressors. And I've said this, I'll keep saying it. I don't think for someone who has an autoimmune disease, I don't think an immune suppressant is the best course of action to give them. So the first one he tried was methotrexate. He had a very bad reaction to that. So that was the hospitalization that everybody heard about that was like, oh my gosh, Brandy, Max in the hospital, what's wrong?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

What's going on?

[Janiece McCullough]

Right, yeah, that was that one. So they said, okay, well, methotrexate doesn't work. Let's go with plaquenil. Plaquenil is another immune suppressant, did the same thing, had a toxic reaction to that. So that's when he got hospitalized again. So that's when the public is looking like, what?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

And that's a lot.

[Janiece McCullough]

Is he knocking on death's doorway? And, you know, and so behind the scenes, me and my mom are arguing with him, like, would you please just go back on prednisone, please? And he know, I don't want to be on prednisone. It's gonna have me, you know, but it's what he needed. So he's still hard headed as he is. He says, no. So they say, okay, well, plaquenil didn't work. Let's go with Imuron. Imuron is another immune suppressant. He has the same thing happen. This time he gets hospitalized because by that point, the show, they shut everything down because he's not well enough to come back. And I think that did something for him, too, because it originally started off where, you know, the studio heads and everybody's concerned, like, is he okay? And then it goes to, well, when is he getting back? This is costing money. Like, this is costing us money. When are we doing this? And he was filming the show. Yeah, he was filming the show and Ocean's Twelve at the same time. And I. I'll never forget Jerry Weintraub, who was the producer of all the Ocean's movies, called him in the hospital and said, hey, yeah, listen, I know. We know you're in the hospital and whatnot, but we really need to do the scene. So why don't I just send a car to you and you just come do your scene. Do you see? And we have the car take you right back to the hospital.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yo, that is so crazy. Like, because what happens if he was a dot at the set?

[Janiece McCullough]

So that's, you know. And his manager, right? And his manager at the time was like, well, listen, you know, they keep calling me. And I was like, yeah. I said, so if he pull a red fox and die on set, facts, what. What y' all gonna do? Because then there's no show. Like, really?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

These people really don't care about us, man.

[Janiece McCullough]

And that was. To me, that's when I saw a shift. Because up until that point, you know, especially by that point, he's got the show. Everything centers around you. You are the star of the show. Because we used to have to tell him when he came home, this ain't the set. Ain't nobody. But, like, because he had gotten to a point where he would whistle, like,

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

he used to live in a certain lifestyle, right?

[Janiece McCullough]

You hear him? And my mother was like, I know this man is not whistling for me. What is wrong with him?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Did she say man or Negro or.

[Janiece McCullough]

She said man. Okay. She. Rhonda doesn't really say. Nicole. Hers was. Dude. Like, if he got on her nerves, dude, please. Like that. That was hers. But, yeah, she's like, I know he not whistling for me. So you could see, like, he had reached a point where he's like, yeah,

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

he was feeling himself.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. And that happened. And you can see the light kind of go out like, these mofos really do not care about. Okay, bet. So he said, I tell you what, I would Do? Yeah. So he said, I tell you what I'mma do. It shut down indefinitely and I'm going home. So he came home, and like I said, that's when he did the imuron. But he got hospitalized because he had a toxic reaction to that. This time, he's at home in Northwestern and his pulmonologist in Western Dr. Mike, who I. That was my girl. She was like, listen, I'm not playing with you. This is not Hollywood. I'm not about to do what you want. You don't like prednisone, but prednisone is what works. You. You're getting on prednisone. And he was trying to fight it, and she was like, no, because right now, we have to do what works. So he got back on prednisone. So I think that was like, what, Season three. I think you can see. Yeah. Like, the how. Because he hadn't been seasons one and two. He was on prednisone, but he had been on it so long, you couldn't see it because he stopped and had

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

to get that difference.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. You could see, like, the moon face. And, like, it sounded like his words were slurred because his mouth was so, you know, puffy. Yeah. And he. That's what he didn't like. And I'm like, but if you had stayed on prednisone all this time, nothing would have happened. And he never quite let go of not being on prednisone. And even during that time, like, his lung scans had shown the sarcoidosis was in remission in his lungs, but it had caused so much scarring that his lung capacity. They told him it really. He was really operating with the capacity of one lung. And they had let him know, not right now, but at some point, we're gonna have to have a discussion about a lung transplant, because your lungs aren't gonna make it longer than that. Yeah. And so that was that. And once we get to 2008, like, he remained on oxygen for the rest of his. For the remainder years, because, like I said, he just didn't have it. You know, at that point, he still never let go of not wanting to be on prednisone. So the summer of 2000, yeah, he was stubborn. And that. That stubbornness is part of why I was in denial. That final hospitalization, I was like, that old man. That bear ain't going nowhere. Like, he's here. So that's kind of what led to his demise. The summer of 2008, we had worked on Soul Men. We had Shot his pilot for his new show, tentatively titled Starting under, and everything was on lock. He goes, well, I'm gonna give me a new doctor, and I'm gonna have this doctor take me off prednisone. Wow. This doctor says, well, we're gonna put you on Humira. Now, Humira was supposed to be a once a month injection, but this doctor goes, well, to really get into your system, we'll be aggressive with it and give you once a week injections.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Wow.

[Janiece McCullough]

Humira is an immune suppressant. So you're having the same thing. So we're looking at him, he's sluggish. He's looking, and we're like, are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. And we're like, you think you need to go to the doctor? No, I got an appointment with Dr. Mike's next week. I'll just go then. Well, by the time he gets to his appointment with Dr. Mikes, he has pneumonia again. And Dr. Michael said, yeah, like what? I never. I don't tell a lot of people this. I was pissed. Yeah. That final. When he got.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I'm pissed for you.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah. That final time that he got pissed, I mean, that he got hospitalized. I was pissed. I was like, you did this? Yeah, you did this.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Like, how do you make peace with that? Because I. When I listen to your story and stuff, I'm like, damn. Like, I wonder if he would have still been here.

[Janiece McCullough]

And that's. I. When I. When people. Because I saw Mike Epps just did Club Shay Shay, and he said something about. He was on set with my dad during Soul Men, and my dad was dying during Soul Man. And I was like, no, he wasn't. He was fine. Like, you know, I mean, not saying he had those, you know, he the same, but he was fine. He was in good health. Like, as far as. As best as his health could be, given all of his things. He was fine during Soul man, right?

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I mean, if he could do a movie, he was fine.

[Janiece McCullough]

Yeah, because he had to have physicals after that point, you know, to be able. Because that's how he lost the role in. What was that movie with John Travolta? Was it. Oh, oh, Wild. Wild Hogs. Yeah, the Martin Lawrence role. He was original. My dad was in that. And he had passed the physical for it and everything, but the studio was like, well, can he take another physical? And he got mad and was like, man, listen, I did everything y' all wanted me to do. I'm not gonna keep doing all this. Right? Yeah. So he told them and Then they wanted him to pay like a what, a one or two million dollar

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

policy.

[Janiece McCullough]

And he was like, I ain't doing all of that. So he dropped.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

Yeah, they really don't care. They don't get their money by any means necessary.

[Janiece McCullough]

Right. They want to make sure. Are you gonna cost us money? So yeah, yeah. So that final hospital is a. Oh, I was, When I tell you, I was heated. I was pissed because it, to me it was unnecessary. You had just done what you needed to do, which was stay on the pregnant. The prednisone. The prednisone was only bothering you mentally. Mentally. You just didn't like. I don't like that I had to take prednisone. That was really, it, it wasn't causing any adverse reactions like that. So Dr. Mike's tells him, hey, you've got pneumonia, we need to hospitalize you. But they didn't have any bed. She was like, sit tight, let me clear a room for you. He goes, nah, I'm gonna go run some errands, I'm gonna go to the gun range, I'm gonna get my nails done and stuff. I'm gonna do all this other stuff. So he leaves. So by the time he gets back to the hospital, he's in sepsis. Now. That's how far his body has deteriorated.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

So yeah, I can only imagine how much pain he was in. Oh, wow. It's like, I don't know, it's like I kind of felt like he knew something was coming.

[Janiece McCullough]

You know, I, I say this all the time to people. My dad always said to. He told all of us he was not going to live to be an old man. He always said it. He didn't believe he was going to live to see his 50th birthday. And I now, in hindsight, I remember on his 50th birthday, I went over to my parents house and I was like, hi, old man, you were wrong. You made it, you're 50. And he looked at me and just went, yeah. And I think about that like, I wonder if he knew because even I. In 2008. So in May of 2008, we shot the pilot for his TV show that was going to be on Fox. And I had a moment. I remember walking into his dressing room and he was sitting on the couch and it was a bunch of people talking to him. And I remember looking at him and I just had this voice go, you're never going to do this again. And I remember looking at him and thinking, this isn't happening again. Now I didn't think that meant he was gonna die, right? In my mind, I just thought, like, I. I thought maybe the show wasn't gonna get picked up. He's lost, you know, he's not enamored with his career anymore. I had my daughter. He loved being a grandfather and being home with her. I was like, he's gonna say, I don't want to do this no more. It's time to slow down. Yeah. I was like, that's what's gonna happen. I didn't know. I didn't think it meant he was about to die.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

This concludes part one of this week's episode. Part two is dropping next week, but if you have any comments, questions or concerns, or you just want to say hey, girl. Hey. Please make sure to email me at hello, the PSG podcast.com y'.

[Janiece McCullough]

All.

[Ebony (Host of Pretty Private Podcast)]

I hope y' all enjoy part one. I really, really, really can't wait for you all to hear part two. It's very emotional, but it was just such a beautiful conversation. So until next time, everyone. Later. Pretty Private is a production of the Black Effect Podcast network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show and you can connect with me on social media. Pretty Private podcast.

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[Janiece McCullough]

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