The Battle of the Braxtons Recap

Summary

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The Breakfast Club: "The Battle of the Braxtons Recap"

Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Carlos King, Dustin, Claudia

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Overview

This episode of The Breakfast Club takes a deep dive into the latest explosive installment of "The Braxtons," the rebooted reality show featuring the iconic Braxton sisters: Toni, Tamar, Towanda, Trina, and the shadow of the late Traci. Hosts Carlos King, Dustin, and Claudia recap the high-stakes drama, dissect family tensions, and discuss the ways decades of celebrity, sibling rivalry, and reality TV pressures shape the ongoing battle within this legendary family.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Return of "The Braxtons": Higher Stakes & Heavier Drama

• Carlos contextualizes the show's history, noting its roots as "Braxton Family Values" and emphasizing the shift to a more unhinged, conflict-driven season after a hiatus and Traci’s passing.
  • "This season is unhinged. It's like nothing I ever expected, anticipated, and to be honest with you, even wanted to see..." (Carlos, 10:51)
• Nostalgia Lost: The hosts reminisce about the show's earlier, lighter tone—spontaneous singing, familial joy, and gentle ribbing—now replaced by relentless animosity.

2. Family Dynamics: Love, Dislike, and Jealousy

• Dustin and Claudia both observe that while the sisters may love each other, there's a strong undercurrent of genuine dislike.
  • "It seems like they may love each other, but they don't like each other very much..." (Claudia, 17:31)
• Discussion of deep-seated issues, side-eyes, and gaslighting—especially as it pertains to Toni's superstar status and how LA Reid's choice to take her solo forever altered sibling relationships.

3. Cease & Desist Scandal: Real or Manipulated?

• Major Plot Point: Tamar received a cease and desist letter—allegedly from the family's lawyer—after she planned to feature her niece Ashley (the brother's daughter) on her podcast to tell a story about alleged abuse.
  • Tamar claimed her family tried to sabotage her business, accusing them of leaking her address. The sisters denied involvement, leading to speculation and legal clarification live on air.
• Legal Clarity: Claudia phones her lawyer live (32:01-34:49) to clarify: while anyone can send a cease and desist, it cannot be anonymous; the sender's identity typically must be clear.

4. Intent and Exploitation: Who Benefits?

• Dustin muses that Tamar’s involvement in sharing Ashley's story is "yes to both" benevolent and a tool for retaliation.
  • "I do believe that there was a part of Tamar that wanted to help her niece. I do. I also believe there's a part... that knew it was going to drive certain people in her family up a wall..." (Dustin, 35:53)
• Claudia points out the recurring issue in Black families of silencing victims and is glad uncomfortable truths made it onto TV.
  • "That happens in black families all the time. And I'm sick of it. So I'm glad that someone put the behavior on blast, because that is not cute..." (Claudia, 43:07)
• The conversation notes that much of the fallout is amplified by reality TV incentives and public perception.

5. The Art—and Consequence—of Reality TV Conflict

• The episode explores the formulaic drift of “The Braxtons” and other reality TV: drama, infighting, and humiliation as ratings strategies.
  • "If they're not arguing with each other, they singing songs and making us... They being silly and childish in a way that used to be charming when the show first started. But now, 10 years later, the fighting or either acting childlike is really getting played out..." (Dustin, 82:38)
• Comparison is drawn to other Black reality TV franchises, with Claudia lamenting the overrepresentation of conflict at the expense of humor and joy.
  • "God damn it, is that all we are is fighting, catching someone cheating, cussing someone out, embarrassing someone on camera...every single show is that nowadays." (Claudia, 84:13)

6. Sisterhood, Success, and Jealousy

• The hosts dissect the unique pressures of a family built for stardom, citing Toni's trajectory and Tamar's later breakout.
  • "I believe the relationship as sisters changed the moment LA Reid selected Tony...” (Carlos, 66:28)
• Claudia and Dustin debate the legitimacy and inevitability of envy within successful families.
  • "You can be happy for your sister but also be low key, hating, a little jealous at the same time...” (Claudia, 66:59)
  • "I don't think there's any Place for like jealousy and ego and pride... If something good happens for you, I'm not gonna think, damn...that should be me too..." (Dustin, 67:17)

7. Breaking the Cycle: Can the Braxtons Heal?

• The hosts are divided on whether true reconciliation is possible, given decades of hurt.
  • "At this age, a lot of stuff's baked in. Like, we can say therapy. I kind of feel like I think it's a done deal..." (Claudia, 76:27)
• They note that reality TV may make matters worse, escalating minor irritations into public battles for the sake of narrative.
• Carlos remains hopeful the sisters can “find their way back,” but doubts whether the show can serve its intended purpose—to honor Traci’s memory.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Braxtons’ Age and Maturity:
  • "We're not watching people in their 20s. We're not even watching people in their 30s. These are people in their 40s, late 40s, 50s, in some cases..." (Dustin, 16:32)
• On Sibling Resentment Post-Fame:
  • "Even Toni Braxton herself said she couldn't enjoy her success because her mother always said, 'Don't forget about your sisters.'" (Carlos, 65:16)
• On Formula Fatigue in Reality TV:
  • "Let it be that. Call the show the Braxton ass beatings and put it on Zeus...Otherwise, family values or..." (Dustin, 85:49)
• On the Public and Reality TV Amplifying Problems:
  • "A lot of this is just escalated because they're on television and they're on...in front of people...I can't get read down. OK. And then the comments: 'Oh, you ain't gonna let your sister talk to you like that.' It's...extra batteries get put on back because of the TV show..." (Claudia, 91:09)
• On Candid Family Boundaries:
  • "I'm not here to ever advocate that you must be best friends with your sibling at this point...I think it's okay to say I love her, but I can love from a distance. I'm cool with that." (Carlos, 94:18)

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Important Timestamps

• Show’s Unhinged Shift/Season Context: 10:51–14:08
• Cease and Desist Letter Drama Explored: 19:48–24:34, follow-up with lawyer 32:01–34:49
• Ashley’s TikTok & Generational Trauma: 41:29–43:07
• Sisters’ Explosive Arguments, Toni’s Superstar Status: 55:50–57:15
• Reality TV's Impact, Formula Burnout: 82:18–86:07
• Possibility of Reconciliation/Final Thoughts: 93:42–96:14

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Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, honest, and filled with both empathy and exasperation, peppered with signature humor from every host. The hosts are candid about their frustrations, but their admiration for the Braxtons’ talents and legacy is unmistakable, even as they challenge the family to break harmful cycles.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode provides a deeply insightful, often emotional analysis of the Braxton sisters’ unraveling reality TV journey. The hosts expose how past wounds, fame, and the demands of unscripted TV collide to create combustible family moments—leaving viewers to wonder if healing is possible or if, like much of reality TV, genuine resolution is always out of reach. Amid the drama, the hosts' ultimate wish is for the Braxtons to rediscover both their love and their legendary harmony, on and off camera.

Transcript

[Sports Announcer]

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[Dustin]

All.

[Sports Announcer]

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[Dustin]

Mmm.

[Sports Announcer]

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[Claudia]

I don't know what I was expecting acting but he was just like nice.

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[Claudia]

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[Claudia]

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[Carlos King]

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[Dustin]

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[Claudia]

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[Carlos King]

Well, look, Ray Jobs, you have the three of us on a Friday night. First of all, happy Halloween. We are not. We're not a costume.

[Dustin]

Nope. But what's up? Boo. Happy Halloween.

[Claudia]

Happy Halloween. Hey, candy is like 15 a bag. Are y' all giving these little any candy this year or no, Right?

[Dustin]

Are you even opening the door?

[Carlos King]

So back in the day, the way that it used to work that I want to know if that's still the case. The Porsche light has to be on in order for. That's. That's a welcoming sign. Okay?

[Dustin]

It should be, but they don't give a. You know, all rules and traditions have going out of the window. They'll ring the doorbell and bang on it with the lights off. They don't care no more these days. They don't.

[Claudia]

My front door is really scary. Like it's a. Like a 12 foot high, like iron door, but has black glass where I can see them and they can't see. Like if I don't have the lights on the inside, like walking up to my house is really scary. Maybe I might just mess with the kids a little bit and then just like, you know, scare them. I don't know.

[Dustin]

You should.

[Carlos King]

You should.

[Claudia]

I do. I'll film it and I'll share it with you guys on Monday.

[Dustin]

That door is. No, I remember it. You just made me think about it. I remember that door.

[Carlos King]

Thank you. I have to go to Dallas. When? I don't know. I have to make a trip. I. I do miss having someone on one time with Claudia.

[Claudia]

I mean, they say I beg you to hang out, so I'm not gonna say it anymore. They're like, she's so thirsty in the comments.

[Dustin]

Nobody that ain't even got your number.

[Claudia]

Begging Carlos to hang out. He don't want to hang with her. Begging for a job. I'm like, do you not know our sense of humor by now?

[Dustin]

Right?

[Carlos King]

No, we all have a to the humor. And that's why for Halloween, I am Dustin Ross, you know, Claudia. So, like, you know, I got my chain on or whatever, and, you know, the calling me Justin. And I don't give a. I don't read them comments dog these people, because, you know, I'm the man and I got everything going on, you know?

[Dustin]

That's right.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. So I, I. So Ray drops. I am Dustin Ross for Halloween.

[Dustin]

I love it. And I. This how I know I need somebody to play me in a movie because I want to look at the screen the way Whitney used to be looking at people. Sing her songs on stage. Like, I want to do that. That's how I feel just now. So I'm with you.

[Claudia]

There you go.

[Carlos King]

Halloween. That was me as Dustin Claudia be Carlos King for Halloween.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Claudia]

Oh, my God, I love all the girls. Oh, I love everybody. And I am not gonna talk bad about anyone even when they're wrong. Yes, yes. Hold on. I got some quinoa in my teeth. I am single out on these streets, so don't ask me any questions. But don't worry about who I was in Europe with. But anyways. Yes. Are you ready? Are you ready?

[Dustin]

And notifications. Yep.

[Carlos King]

Yes.

[Claudia]

Notifications show on Tuesday. I'm not gonna say who it is, but yeah.

[Carlos King]

That was good. That was good. That was good. Okay, so. So, Dustin, your turn to be Claudia.

[Dustin]

Okay, look, let me see what the comments are saying. Hold on one second. According to the comments, they're saying that. I don't know. It's not looking like I don't know. I'm just saying. I ain't saying. You know what I mean? I don't know. Just looking like. Let me see what the comments are saying. Well, me, personally, I don't know that. Listen, if she doesn't want to go do the. That's my girl. Claudia. Yes. Look, we'll. We'll do the real impressions when we go out. Okay?

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

Instead of our new show.

[Dustin]

That's right.

[Carlos King]

That'll be good. Actually. No, that'll be good. That'll be good. And listen, it goes to show that as friends, we could do that. Like, that was. I was actually funny. I love that. Yes.

[Dustin]

And Claudia's right, because on our show, we'll have a wardrobe budget for the holidays. So just think about the things we'll do for, like, Christmas, the things we'll do for the Halloween episodes. Just think about Episodes because it's gonna come back year after year, especially once we start snatching them trophies. So I'm excited.

[Claudia]

I can't wait. I can't wait to move to.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Q1. Q1. Q1. Yeah.

[Carlos King]

Baby.

[Claudia]

And that city has good men. Like, that's why I have the best luck in that city. I'm not gonna say the same city, but that's the city I have. My, my. You know, I've had.

[Dustin]

Well, they tell you up front, the fruit is big, so you know what I'm saying? I listen.

[Carlos King]

Not all the Big Apple.

[Claudia]

You know what? The fruit was definitely big there. I will say that.

[Dustin]

So, yes, very excited.

[Carlos King]

And I love taking a bite out of the big Apple. Yes.

[Claudia]

They also have good weed and good mushrooms.

[Dustin]

See? What else do you need? Industry weed men. You know what I'm saying?

[Claudia]

Good shopping, good Italian food, good Indian food. Good.

[Dustin]

Trying to tell you. Yeah, Lady Vance, bring your wife.

[Carlos King]

On that note, imagine being sandwiched when you are in between two Aries. That. That is what it feels like when you're around.

[Dustin]

Claudia, if you want to say you'd like to thank the Academy after you get out from the middle and on it.

[Carlos King]

Okay.

[Claudia]

A wet dream. It should be for you. You got a fire around you and all. And I know, I know everybody likes being rammed. You got two rams around you.

[Dustin]

That's right. Big.

[Claudia]

I like a good ramming.

[Dustin]

That's right.

[Claudia]

Who don't like a ramming?

[Dustin]

Aries. All capital letters. Like that truck.

[Claudia]

Earthy horns, too. You know, I mean, like, we just.

[Carlos King]

Yes.

[Dustin]

Can't even.

[Carlos King]

Fingers.

[Dustin]

Can't even touch when you put them around.

[Claudia]

Like when they can't. Like when they can't go all the way around.

[Dustin]

Can't touch.

[Carlos King]

I hope you guys are enjoying your Fridays as much as the three of us are. But listen, don't be sad. We will be back on Monday.

[Claudia]

So, you guys, I think we're gonna be on time on Monday.

[Carlos King]

We are going to be on time every Monday. Maybe we'll see how the.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

The.

[Carlos King]

The week brings us. But as announced this past Monday.

[Dustin]

Due.

[Carlos King]

To the overwhelming demand, we are here to discuss the latest episode of the Braxtons and just in general, discussing the season overall. This is the second. Okay, season of the Braxtons because prior to that, they had, I think, quadruple 10 seasons of the Braxton Family Values, which is the longest running black family reality show in the world. So they took some time off. The show came back last year. This is season two of the Braxtons, and it Features Tawanda, Tamar, Tony and Trina. As we all know, the great Tracy has passed away.

[Dustin]

Rest in peace, Tracy.

[Carlos King]

Yes, Rest in peace, Tracy. And get right into it. Listen, the. This season is unhinged. It's like nothing I ever expected, anticipated, and to be honest with you, even wanted to see, you know, when. When it came to the Braxtons. I'll speak for myself. I'd love to get your thoughts. Obviously, guys, I fell in love with this show because how funny they were.

[Dustin]

Yep.

[Carlos King]

How they would sing a song on at the drop of a Dime, how they would have funny commentary when it comes to the mother. You know, they made up a song called the Ding a ling song. They made up a song called Daddy. They made up songs on the spot. They were funny. And yes, there was always drama, but it was never drama to the point of what I'm seeing this season. And it is very, very tough to watch. So, Dustin, I'll start with you.

[Dustin]

Sure.

[Carlos King]

When you learned that this season was coming back, were you excited that you thought, okay, we're going to get back to what we were introduced to on the show, which is, look, a group of sisters who are talented, funny, have chemistry. Yes. They fight and argue like siblings do, but, you know, we now get to, like, laugh again.

[Dustin]

Well, listen, I was happy to see. To answer your question, yeah, I was happy to see them return right before a few a bit different of a reason. These are black women who mean a lot to the world, mean a lot to the three of us, mean a lot to music, mean a lot to television now. Right. And so I'm a person who, you know, I support the arts. I'm a patron, I support the art. So I want the show to continue. I want them to continue on making money and income in their own rights, and I want them to. I wanted to move forward, especially after the passing of Tracy. This show is literally titled after their family name. First it was Braxton family values. Now it's called the Braxtons. Similar to the change that Keeping up with the Kardashians did when they switched from E to Hulu and became the Kardashians versus Keeping up with the Kardashians. It's kind of the same pattern, but this ain't it. So I was happy to. To see them come back, but I was not happy with what I saw once they did come back from. For years, we've seen rifts between the sisters. For years, we've seen them have challenges in trying to have a peaceful relationship with Tamar. Each of them individually have challenges. With Tamar, we watched that. We watched Tony flat out tell us, hey, if they were not my sisters, we probably would not be friends. We've seen all these things. And so after Tracy passed away, which was a devastating loss to them, I have siblings. You know, I would. My would be gutted. Carlos, you have siblings. Claudia, you do as well. And so after Tracy's loss, you would think that they would be motivated by a desire to unify, to find some sort of bridge and. And bond, even in this late stage in their lives, but they can't do it. And we can break down the reasons why as we move forward. But to answer your first question, yes, I was happy to see them come back.

[Claudia]

Ah, man, I didn't. I didn't watch the show before. I watched, you know, I've had. You know, me and Tamar have had a very tumultuous relationship, but we're. I'm happy to say that we're actually in a good place now. We spent a month together in a house shooting College Hill mentioned about this show that she's like, she wasn't with it. She said she didn't want to go back. She was just going to be like a friend of the show. And I was like, how can you be a fellow? It's such a big part of it. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's. It doesn't seem like it'd be fun for any of them. Like, again, like I've mentioned before, reality being draining. This seems like 10 times more draining than it would be with people that you're not friends with. You know, like, at least on a reality show with, like, housewives, whatever, you. You can actually separate. Like, when the four months of filming is up, it's like. I see. Right. I'll see you when we get renewed. And I'm making several hundred thousand dollars, if not a million.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

With this, it's like, it's u. And then it's not over for them. Like, they. Family events, funerals, weddings. I mean, I was invited to Tawana's wedding and Tama wasn't. She wasn't there. And I was like, wow. It felt. It felt bad, you know, Like, I was like, damn. Like, and I wonder if because of the reality show making, you know, I mean, stressing out the family dynamics that maybe wouldn't be there if they wanted because everybody got to pop off a little bit extra fatigue. Oh, I'm not about to let a read me down, even though she is my sister, you know, and it was so ugly, this episode. And then I went back and watched the episode before, and I'm like, I will say this, I really love me some Tony Braxton. I've always loved me some Tony Braxton.

[Dustin]

Yeah, the heavyweight.

[Claudia]

She's the littlest one. Talking about I'm a heavyweight.

[Dustin]

Exactly.

[Claudia]

I like that.

[Dustin]

Yeah. I like the sisters, period. I'm sure we'll dig a little bit deeper. As you can see, Carlos is having some sort of technical difficulties right now, but he'll rejoin us shortly. And I listen, I like the Braxtons, but the Braxtons have got to grow up at a certain point. Okay? The childish antics that were fun to watch in the beginning, like Carlos mentioned singing them songs and telling stories and being playful, that kind of got old fast for me, because these are not. We're not watching people in their 20s. We're not even watching people in their 30s. These are people in their 40s, late 40s, 50s, in some cases.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

So the playful nature of everything being a joke, it's just a little unrealistic at a certain point. And these women have very complex lives that they could easily feel, what is it, 48 minutes? Or how however many minutes it is of when a show is an hour long, they could easily fill up that time, fill up those blocks with things to show and things to talk about. But the focus seems to always be on the. You know what I'm saying? Somebody always. And piss somebody else the off. It's always a damn problem. It's always some sort of disrespect or talking about somebody behind a damn back. It's always that, you know what I'm saying? And when it's not that they're acting silly. And so for me, although I want to watch the show go on and on forever, like, it just lost a little bit of the connection for me. But I don't want it to stop. I want it to still be available for people to watch. I just got sick of seeing that.

[Claudia]

It seems like they may love each other, but they don't like each other very much. They do not like each other. They can't stand each other in some regards. And there's like, I see a lot of, what about me? What about my feelings and, like, your feelings, but what about my feelings and how you hurt me? And, you know, it's hard to see past that, like, how someone else might be feeling if it's just, like, all about what you think. And I was like, I don't see this show. How the show can Go on with this level of animosity. And this is what, episode three.

[Carlos King]

Four.

[Dustin]

Three. Three, I believe. I think this was three. Okay, three. Let me see. Let me check that before we get to lying.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

It was episode four. You're right. It was four.

[Claudia]

I watched way back and watch three.

[Dustin]

And I'm like, if.

[Claudia]

If every episode is. No one's having fun. Because imagine if you know what the producer's going through. If every episode, none of them are having fun. It's just on 10, arguing. I don't see how the show can continue.

[Dustin]

Yeah. Carlos. So sick of it. He got off the damn screen. These damn Braxtons. It cut off. See?

[Carlos King]

So listen, the spirit definitely blocks me from that. So let's. Let's just get into what happened in this episode that air tonight. So what we did see was the continuation of this sister's dinner. So at the sister's dinner, Tamar, who decided to bring on her brother's daughter. So I want to make sure you guys know that Ashley, their niece, is the daughter of their brother who has never been involved with the show. He may have seen him once or twice, maybe five times in the duration of both shows being on the air. His niece made posts about some things she experienced in her childhood, teenage years. I'm not sure exactly. She did allude to the fact that it was something in regards to aunt's former husband, but I don't believe. I want to make sure. Legally, I don't say the name because Ashley never said the person's name. Right, Dustin.

[Dustin]

Nope. Never said the name. No.

[Carlos King]

Okay.

[Dustin]

But painted a colorful enough picture for us.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. Yes. And Tamar decided to have her a part of her live podcast to talk about it. Tamar received a cease and desist from the family attorney. According to Tamar, she walks into the dinner, she opens up a vanilla envelope. The ladies are saying they did not authorize this. They had no idea what's happening. They said their name wasn't on it. Tamar is livid because she said she was served at her doorstep. Whereas the place that she lives with her minor child, Logan. And she's very hot. She's very heated. And from there, they're denying that they had anything to do with this. What I will say is this just to really talk about cease and desist.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Carlos King]

Okay. A cease and desist is a form of documentation. It's a legal documentation where you send that to prevent somebody from saying things, detailing things, repeating things that you believe is associated with you that isn't true. And it's sort of like a. A. It's a threat. If you do proceed with this, I will take legal action. And legal action is a form of a lawsuit. Okay. Yeah. Which is why Tamar said you guys are trying to impact my business. Claudia, what are your thoughts on that?

[Dustin]

Do you.

[Carlos King]

Do you think that the sisters had no idea, and by sisters, I mean Tony, Tawanda and Trina. That those three had nothing to do with a cease and desist even coming Tamar's way, nor giving her address away when she said that her address is not even listed publicly?

[Claudia]

No, I think that they. Someone knows, but they're not going to say because they know her temper. They know it's going to be a big argument like who else would do it? You know what I mean? I. I will say I've had to send cease and assist letters, and it does have to trace back to a lawyer. Right. And you contact the lawyer and you ask them, like, who is this coming from? That. That's what they can.

[Dustin]

They.

[Claudia]

They have that right to ask. Yeah, I do think it's someone that does.

[Carlos King]

The lawyer. But. But answer question. Does the lawyer have the right to disclose who it came from?

[Claudia]

I'm not sure what the law is on that, but I've always had my lawyer say it with his chest. Yeah, tell. That is from me. Yeah, it is. I like, yeah, it's for me. Like, why send it? You know, like, because I think in the season, sister, you have to like, kind of say, like, I mean, in mine I've sent out, it's basically like, stop saying this and give an example of what they're saying. That's like false or defamatory. Because you're threatening a ceaseless. This is a, a warning shot for a lawsuit. So you document that. You try first and then before you proceed to a lawsuit. Right. You try first before you. Because you can't just come out the gate with a lawsuit. You have to at least try to give them some kind of warning. And yeah, I don't know how they don't know who it's from because I. It's always been a very clear who is from when, when I've sent one out or when I've received one. I got one when I was on Real Housewives of Atlanta from your girl. But we. We weren't lying, so it didn't. We paid it no mind. Look at.

[Lawyer]

Look.

[Carlos King]

Look, Claudia. So much for the Halloween costume, right? Okay, Dustin, tonight. Go ahead, Dustin.

[Dustin]

So, okay, let's zoom out here, right? Number one, a cease and decease and desist come and go every single day. When you work in media, when you work in the business of opinion, when you work in an area where people's information can be commodified in some sort of way and you have access to it and to disperse it, you can. Are you are vulnerable to receive assistant desist from somebody who didn't like what you had to say. Right. That's something that happens. My question. Before we tap further into that, I have a producer question for you, Carlos. So do you believe that the cease and desist was issued from. It said it came. She said that by she, I meaning Tamar Braxton, said that the cease and desist came from their family. The Braxton family attorney. Right.

[Carlos King]

Y.

[Dustin]

Is that. Do you.

[Carlos King]

But.

[Dustin]

But Siri had activated on my computer anyway. So do you think that the production company, that the. The we tv, the network, or maybe some of the producers of the show wanted to interfere with that conversation taking place between Tamar and her niece Ashley Braxton, or do you think it would have had to come from one of the sisters?

[Carlos King]

Listen, that's a great question. I emphatically do not believe that the production had anything to do with sending Tamar's cease and desist to stop this from being on top of conversation. And the reason why I say that is because, I mean, number one, it's unethical. You don't get involved in altering the reality of something in a legal context. Secondly, they, the production company filmed Ashley talking to Tamar about this. When it comes to the cease and desist. Look, I always look at things as, as behavior. Right, right. And. And the disposition of folks. When she said, you guys have the family lawyer, their reaction to it to me didn't seem like they didn't know. They didn't know. They were very calm about it. And the same way they were when.

[Dustin]

Tawanda made that allegation against Tamar about sleeping with Tony's, one of Tony's past boyfriends, there was a very even kill, you know, lack of reaction from the ladies. And I think that's kind of what you're referring to in this case. When she did mention the cease and desist and question the origin of it, nobody really said. I mean, I, I kind of think that's where you're going with this. Right?

[Carlos King]

Yeah, yeah. I would have said absolute, absolutely not. I didn't do that. Why would I? So I always look at things, what people are not always what they're saying, but what they're not saying. Because I would have been like, I would have never done that. And you also have a look at the show. They, they, they never fully addressed it. I've watched all four episodes.

[Sports Announcer]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Claudia]

All.

[Sports Announcer]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open. I'm Willmer Valderrama. And yes, I grew up watching him. Probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

[Carlos King]

From cleaning canary cages to this night.

[Dustin]

Here in New York.

[Carlos King]

It's a long ways.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine. How he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us. Watching from the sidelines waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy. Today. Listen to Starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. That's part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

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[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics and pop culture. And each week one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions, like, are we heading towards another financial crash? Like in 08, is non monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lilly Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things.

[Dustin]

Can potentially go really wrong.

[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bloomberg News Host]

The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story. Every weekday.

[Dustin]

A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market.

[Bloomberg News Host]

What does a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout?

[Carlos King]

There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House.

[Bloomberg News Host]

And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't?

[Carlos King]

CPI tries to measure out of pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure.

[Bloomberg News Host]

Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Carlos King]

This Is reality with the King. And I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show.

[Claudia]

My lawyers call and I text them to ask them. Should I ask them on the air?

[Carlos King]

Yes, go ahead, please. Let him know he's being recorded, please.

[Claudia]

Chris, where I'm recording right now. You're on my. I'm on air, so I just have to let you know.

[Carlos King]

Okay.

[Claudia]

My question about cease and assist, like, can someone, anybody.

[Lawyer]

You don't have to be a disloyer.

[Claudia]

Right. But say so say I sent one to somebody. Right. Can I do it anonymously or my name has to be on it or.

[Lawyer]

No, no, you. You really should sign your cease and desist so they know what's going on.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Lawyer]

Know exactly who they need to leave alone. They know exactly what the issue is. And yes, anybody can sign their own cease and desist letter.

[Claudia]

We're discussing a show where these ladies are saying that their family lawyer sent a cease and says and everyone's acting like they don't know where it came from. So I was wondering if it could ask him.

[Dustin]

By law, do people have to identify the origin of it?

[Carlos King]

Right.

[Claudia]

Do they have to identify the origin of the season by law? By law.

[Lawyer]

Well, you need to understand the issue if I'm going to send a cease and desist. And since we're on the air right now, this is just for entertainment purposes only.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Lawyer]

You know, but if that's the situation becomes. I have to say, you are hereby demanded decease and desist. And whatever action that it is that I'm going to describe in the letter, you know, let's just say calling Claudia Jordan defamatory names, you know, you have to let them know what the issue is that they need to be ceasing and desisting from doing.

[Claudia]

Okay.

[Lawyer]

What the situation is by law, does.

[Carlos King]

The person who sent it have to be disclosed?

[Lawyer]

Does the person who sent it. Well, it really should be the lawyer or the individual that the subject matter is about.

[Claudia]

Like, say, say, say I was like, okay, Carlos King isn't talking about me. And I, I needed to stop. Chris, can you draft up a season assist? So you send my season says and say I'm. I'm a lawyer. I need you to stop talking about Claudia and my own name.

[Lawyer]

Yes. For you.

[Carlos King]

You.

[Claudia]

But does it have to. Does that say. Does that basically say that it's like, on my behalf. Like, I originated.

[Lawyer]

That it would be on your behalf. I. I represent Claudia, Georgia and Carlos, stop saying defamatory things about.

[Claudia]

Got it.

[Lawyer]

Sometimes it's I mean, I've seen sometimes a manager write it, but it just can't be anonymous. Defaming Claudia Jordan. Signed anonymous. No, that's not the way it works.

[Claudia]

So someone's name is on it. Someone has to put a name on it.

[Lawyer]

Yeah, Somebody has to say. Somebody has to sign it and have to tell the person that is directed to what action that they need to cease and desist doing.

[Claudia]

Okay, thank you. I'm gonna call you soon. I get the air.

[Dustin]

Okay, thank you.

[Carlos King]

No, thank you. So. So with that being said, that's why, look, I. I watched the show. So even when Tawanda and Trina were talking about it in their scene in the first episode, they were very careful with their words about what was going on because the. The. What's allegedly going on is the fact that it's allegedly the somebody that one of the sisters used to be married to. Right. And what they're saying is that this person is not here to defend themselves. Now, with that being said, they're questioning whether or not Tamar's intentions was to really help out her fellow niece or did she do that to embarrass her family. Dustin, what are your thoughts? Do you think Tamar had the best intentions in helping out Denise with her story, or do you think that it was malice intent?

[Dustin]

Yes, to both.

[Carlos King]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Dustin]

Because I do believe. Listen, you got to consider the history. You got to consider the players involved. I do believe that there was a part of Tamar that wanted to help her niece. I do. I believe that. I also believe there's a part of Tamar that knew it was going to drive certain people in her family up a wall if this story was brought back up. And I think that because of certain. Exist. Certain existing issues that she. I was about to say exist. Shoes. Certain existing issues. Now, I really. We didn't swap. Anyway, I think that because of some things that was already going on with her and her sisters, she wanted to piss them off. You don't get on TV cussing your sisters out the way that she was cussing them out at that dinner scene in this episode and in the last episode without there being some real deep in the waters between you and your siblings. And so, yeah, she wanted to help her niece. She also knew that that was some really uncomfortable, painful information for certain people in her family. And so I think she wanted to piss them off. Yes.

[Claudia]

Like a two for one. Like, yeah, I am fighting for the integrity and to protect. I am being a protective aunt. This is her niece, right? Yeah. Auntie. But also the secondary benefit would be to piss these heifers off, because I. There you go with them. I could see that, too, because I don't think, like, you know, if. Listen, if I found out one of my family members was, you know, had some. Somebody was touching her or what have you, allegedly. And everyone kept it from me.

[Dustin]

I'm.

[Claudia]

I'm flipping tables, too. I'm gonna be mad, too. So I think that's a legitimate response to be upset. But then you also have this other layer of you guys are public figures. You're on television, you have a show, and what you choose, how you choose to move forward. Okay, I'm put on a podcast. I'm exposed. I'm gonna blow the whole family up and not care because I don't really rock with them anymore, and I feel like they don't rock with me. So. Yeah, I could see that, too.

[Dustin]

She said she wanted to help her niece. And in the conversation, Tamar made sure that she filmed the scene on the show where she was sitting down at a. At a restaurant with her niece and stating on camera that she wanted to help her niece and offer her some help and resources that she. Tamer. I'm speaking of, she herself had not had available to her when she needed some help previously. She's alluded to being in a similar position of some sort in some way with her niece at some point in her life, and so she definitely laid that out on camera. But Tamar also is a television producer. She's produced multiple reality shows for herself, and she's been a producer on the Braxtons the entire time. So Tamar understood the importance of that qualifying information being included in what was available to be shown on air. Right, Because I'm not sure how much control they have over the edits, but Tamar knew she had to film a scene saying, hey, niece, I want to help you. And this is why we're doing this. This is why I want to have you come on my show. Because then when her intention is questioned, she has something to reference now saying, no, look, I only wanted to help her. You can see I talked about it on the show. But the behavior that we saw displayed in that dinner scene contradicts that being her sole intention, because she referenced specific things that she took umbrage, no pun intended, because, you know, they call Tawana umba. But she took umbrage with certain things, you know what I'm saying, with her sisters, and it motivated the way she reacted and responded to things. A cease and desist Although. Although it is a defining, you know, document, it's just not a. It's not. It happens. It's not something that's very serious. Okay, it can be serious, but it also can be a way to just tell a person you don't like what they're doing or saying. And I feel like Tamar took that season assist and the. The receipt of the. Of that seat and cease and desist. Right. She took that moment and stretched it as far as she could. Y' all trying to shut down my businesses. I'm a producer. I'm a singer. This is how I make my money. No, it's not. Tamar's podcast that she has has changed names. It's not all people watch it, you know, and it's a great conversation between her and some of her close friends, but it's not something that is. Is the sole source of all her income. I would. I would. I would challenge that as a fact. So I don't think they tried to shut her businesses down.

[Claudia]

I think that was a bit over the top to say that, because Tamar is a singer, a great singer. She has reality shows. She's constantly booked and busy. So I don't think that would shut her down, I think. But, you know, Tamar, to her credit for reality tv, is good at bringing the drama and being dramatic. And I feel like that I do feel bad if this was very painful for the niece in real life, that it kind of feels a little yucky. Like her situation kind of got exploited for, like, get back with each other.

[Dustin]

Yeah. To be fair, she introduced the information. We had no idea about any of these alleged occurrences. Right. Her niece Ashley, who had been living in Spain, I believe, for the past, what, 10 years or something like that, she brought the Met, started making Tic Tac videos speaking about her experience, and that's what kind of set all this off. As a person who's been viewing the Braxtons, it does feel like Tamar used it to her advantage. It does, yeah. Exploited it. I'm just saying.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. Piggyback off of what Dustin's saying. Just so you're aware too, Claudia, the niece did the Tick Tock video saying that allegedly that one of her aunts, her aunties, cut her off after the auntie's partner was inappropriate with her at the age of 16. And that's when everybody started to throw names out there without her name is Ashley, without Ashley even saying the name. And just to catch people on this is what Ashley did say on the Tick Tock. So, Claudia, I want you to know, too, this is what she said on Tick Tock before the season even started. So I want to tell a story today, and the story is about how one of my aunts and my family do not talk to me because they think that I, at the age of 16, did something with a partner at the time. And I believe. Hold on a second. And I. I'm sorry. And I have been a nervous wreck to talk about something like this and to tell this story, A, because of my family, B, because I don't want to hurt people. It's not to hurt people to tell my story, but at the same time, I've been working through this so much in therapy, and this is something that goes way deep to my core and in terms of worthiness and how I feel about myself. So she. Listen, that's how she started offer TikTok. And again, she started off by saying that one of her aunts just doesn't talk to her because of what, you know, allegedly occurred when she was 16 years of age.

[Claudia]

And that happens in black families all the time. And I'm sick of it. So I'm glad that someone put them up, put the behavior on blast, because that is not cute. And in that regard, then Tamar's right. You know, I mean, as far as, like, looking out for the niece, if that was a sole intent, was like, look, I really care about this, and I'mma elevate your voice. And whoever sent a season this to Tamar about shutting it down and not talk about it, I think they were wrong. I think they were dead wrong. For. I mean, yes, the person is no longer with us allegedly, right. But like, that she shouldn't be able to talk about it because the person died. I think the f. Not. I think.

[Dustin]

I think it's funny that when Tamar did voice her concerns with being issued the season, it says the cease and desist. Not one time did she say, y' all stop me from helping Ashley tell her story. She kept saying, y' all shutting my business down. I'm a singer, I'm a producer. I'm this. It was the. The focus was only on helping Ashley, per our view, the viewers. We only saw that being her focus and intention in the scene when she sat down at the restaurant with her niece and when they began their discourse on stage at Tamar's live podcast. Any other time she's spoken about the cease and desist on the show, her focus has been her being wronged by her sisters, as opposed to a block being put in place between her and offering some sort of help or assistance to her niece. And I find that a bit telling. Personally, I think that Tamar, when her personality is corralled appropriately and, and, and housed appropriately, I think she is a, she's a dynamite television personality. I think she was incredible on the real as a host, and I think that she is one of the best singers, really, of our time. She has an incredible, a beautiful singing.

[Carlos King]

Yes.

[Dustin]

Personalities are subjective. People might like her or might not like her, but she's good at those two things. What we've seen her not be as successful at is being a friend, being a sister, being loyal, maintaining privacy when it comes to personal things between her and someone else. She constantly runs to the Internet whenever she has issues with anything or anyone. And that makes resolution and resolve difficult because now you're inviting in a myriad of opinions and other perspectives to something that could have been handled between two people. So I'm challenged, really, if I'm being honest. I've seen Tamar habitually cross lines and boundaries of disrespect with her sisters over the years. Right? Every. We can go back to the scene when she went around the table and pointed out something that was wrong with everybody's husband at the table. Personal things like them being, you know, having infidelities or having not been able to keep a job, you know, these are your man.

[Carlos King]

I know, but listen, I'll say this. Yes. I, I, I, I'm a fan of the show. Listen, I will say this. At the time, as I was watching it, I did laugh because I thought. I, I didn't, this is my opinion. I didn't take it as deep, but I'm also on the receiving end, and I'm not gonna tell anybody how to feel. Yes. But the scene, Raindrops is where she said, young man's a cheetah, your man a computer whiz. Because allegedly one of the husbands was, like, on the Internet talking to other women.

[Dustin]

Now, I'm gonna tell you what I got a problem with, right? Here's what I have a problem with. Because Tamar is not the only person at fault in this situation. Right. The main conflict that we witnessed was between her and her sister Tawanda. Okay? And this is not something new. This has been a recurring conflict or recurring theme since the first our introduction to the Braxtons. Right? Money, access, ego, pride, all those things play a part in this conversation because, as you see, when Tamar was lashing out or reacting to being sent to cease and desist by somebody connected to the sisters and their attorney or former attorney. At one point, Tamar started talking about everything else. Y' all are jealous of me. She started referencing her looks. She started referencing monies that were given and whether or not they were a gift or a loan, you know, and her and Tawanda started going back and forth. Tawanda took advantage of the opportunity. It seemed to me as if Tawanda had an intention of, okay, I'm about to expose you. I want to change the way that people view you. I want people to understand that you're a bad person who would do things that people consider disgusting and representable to their siblings. So I'm going to tell this secret, no matter alleged secret, I should say, about you allegedly sleeping with someone that Tony had a relationship with, because I want people to look at you differently than they do. That's a deep down, you know, intention for someone to have, especially your sister, when it comes to a problem between the two of y'.

[Carlos King]

All.

[Dustin]

And Tawanda continue to do insane things that I felt like crossed the line, too. Towards the end of the conflict, Tawanda can be seen on camera and shout out to the editors for making sure it was included. Tawanda was saying, let's call the police and let's press charges on her. Let's call the police and let's press charges on her. She kept repeating that in that scene, bringing up about kids. All of that was just lined. It was just lines being crossed that are difficult to go back from. Shout out to Trina Braxton. I think Trina Braxton regulated her emotions impeccably during that whole confrontation. Trina was keeping her tone down. Trina was trying to diffuse things, de. Escalate things. Even when she would respond to some of the wild. Tamar was saying she would just be like, no, Tamar, I'm not.

[Claudia]

Even when she got her hair pulled from the back, that would have set me off, especially. She was trying to. She was trying her best to be the peacemaker in between. She got villainized for it. And, you know, in the heat of the moment. You mad? You like, you touch me? Are you. You separating us? Let me get at her. No, that was what. Trina did the right thing. And. And Tamar. Ah, that was such an ugly scene. It was so ugly for them.

[Dustin]

And we all have the moments, right? That's not. They're not alone in that. Like, we all have moments that we're not proud of, especially. Can't nobody piss me off like my family. I'M just gonna be honest. I don't give a about 100. But my family, you know, like, disagreements internally are triggering for me, and so I get it. Right? But I'm also not finna cuss my brother or sister out on TV like that. Just. I don't even have it if we have a disagreement. I was just telling my friend earlier, me and my brother, that's our love language. You. What the.

[Carlos King]

You.

[Dustin]

You know, that's how we talk. Hello. What you doing? You ugly. That's how we talk to each other. But if we ever have a disagreement, we remove all of that and we talk about what's going on. You know what I'm saying? I don't have it in my heart to hurt him in that way or dip disrespectfully insult him. You know what I'm saying? So seeing Tamar and Tawana just go right there, it indicates a lot of. And a very, very broken relationship. They don't like each other.

[Carlos King]

I was going to say that it. I want to say. I want to. I want to peel back, too, because you have siblings. You have siblings. I have. I have nine of them. Nine siblings. And I'm gonna tell you what I saw as somebody who's the middle child of 10 kids who all grew up in the same house with the same parents all our lives. I did see a couple of things. I saw gaslighting, and I'll get to that. I saw passive aggressiveness, and I saw a deep need to expose because I'm tired and I'm fed up, and I'm done. And I'm done, and I. And. And the world's about to find out exactly who you are. So what I will say is this, even when. And I want to go back a little bit to the moment about Ashley being on the show and how Tamar told Tony, you told me to get on the Braxtons, and Tony denied it. And Tamar said, I swear on I, mom, that you did it. Right? Only for Toni then to go in her confessionals to say, well, look, I did say bring her on the show, but in this way. So I do feel like this. It goes to show you that, yes, Tamar may be this big, braggadocious, loud person, right, And Tamar is as flawed as all of us. But I will say in that moment, I did feel like, well, if you're saying to her in her face, you didn't do it, only to then go in your confessional saying, well, I did do does sort of present this. This. This notion that okay, Ish. Is Tamar being gaslit by her sisters. And, and, and, and, and one more thing, Dustin. So I'm gonna tap you in because I have siblings and whoever has siblings more than like a couple, y' all go, y' all go. Y' all go. Y' all gonna agree to this? And you'll agree with this too. That's it. There were tons of side looks and whispers that was happening. So even when Tamar brought the accusation of the phone. The phone bill. The phone bill I told you about the phone bill, remember? The phone bill that Tawanda had my name. And Tony said, you did say that. Then Tawanda goes, yeah, but something like, is that illegal? Whatever the words were, something about, was that illegal or something? And Tony whispers, it doesn't make it true. It was sort of like, okay, I'm really seeing, I'm really seeing moments of things being gas lit. And again, I'm not saying I'm on this perfect side or not. I'm watching the show. But I will say for a woman like Tamar, who does have a reputation that she said people just think she just goes off on the list for no reason. I will say in that scene, I did see mom. So I'm like, huh? To be gaslit in your face by your sisters. And then as a person who has siblings who also does the little look to my other sister, like, look, I, I, I, I did see moments of like, okay, I could see where, I'm sorry, I can see why she feels this way in this moment.

[Dustin]

I could, in this moment. I agree with you because I definitely recognize moments like, I told you, Tamar is not alone in, in what, what made this dinner go left, right, or what makes their dinners typically go left. There were other people who are involved. Trina was making faces. And you know what I'm saying? Even though she did regulate her emotions well, when it was time for her to actually communicate, her non verbal communication was something different. Right? Tawanda appears to have a, a mean, nasty edge to her spirit when she is in conflict with Tamar. I don't know where that comes from. I don't know what that reflects, but she appears to have a goal of shifting the perspective of whoever is watching or listening when it comes to Tamar. It seems like Tawanda does not like how Tamar is well received by some people. In spite of her behaviors that can be deemed erratic, can be deemed problematic, can be deemed childish, can be deemed whatever you want to deem them, she still gets a lot of Love. You know what I'm saying? And I think that Tawanda resents that because Tawanda feels like she has real issues to be upset with Tamar about, and she feels like her sisters have real issues to be upset with Tamar about. I don't think she feels like Tamar deserves some of the success that Tamar has rightfully earned on her own, of her own merit. Right. I think it appears as if Tawana resents that a little bit. And so she tries to cut down the middle when she's arguing with Tamar. Why else would you bring up something like that? Yeah, Tamar brought up that down payment. But that's the kind of you do when you help each other out when you siblings and, you know, but even that being brought up, it just. It's just.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

And I'm. Claudia, I want to hear from you too. I. I'll say this. As a person that has siblings, I think they all cross the line with exposing what they do for each other. I don't. I don't like that. That's why I do feel like in that moment, the gloves were off.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

And it was the first time that I saw the living legend, Tony B. Braxton, gloves being off too, because as the older sister, she always had this way of either I'm going to keep things here or I'm going to remove myself from the situation. I was surprised to see even her have her gloves off. And the thing with Trina, who definitely wasn't vocal, I will say, even when Trina said to Tony, you're the. You're a superstar, I. I'll say this. I, I didn't like that in that moment because you're sort of. Exactly. You're sort of categorizing that one sister has more to lose than the other. And as a viewer, all you guys have the same thing to lose. Yes. Toni Braxton is the iconic Grammy award winning living legend. Right. But in this moment, that's your sister.

[Dustin]

There you go. Thank you, Carlos.

[Carlos King]

Does not matter. In this moment, when I get to an argument with my. My siblings. None of those mother. None of them say, that's the king of reality tv. Like, you got, you got. They like, okay, there's.

[Dustin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Claudia]

That was again, more evidence of long standing beef for many, many years. It was clearly a dig. Like the sister is saying, she's saying, you're a superstar. And looking at Tamar, you're a superstar. This is above you. They've had lots of arguments in the past. And you know, I do think that Tamar probably feels away that sometimes Tony Braxton does get that label. And as talented as Tamar is, which she was really, I think a lot of Tamar's issues is sometimes I do think she has. She's correct in her stances. It's probably the delivery and that rubs their sisters the wrong way. So they get into it like it's. Delivery is like half the battle in tone. So even when you're right, it's. It's like easy to demonize someone, right? And be like, look at her, she's acting up. She acted. Here she go acting ghetto again, not acting like a superstar. When your Delivery is on 10, no one really can hear you. They hear you yelling, they hear you screaming, they hear your. You seem aggressive, right? They're not really hearing. Well, maybe she was gaslit a little bit. Maybe she does have a point. And then no one wants to feel sympathy for you because of your tone. So that's what like, so. And the sisters know that, right? So you keep your yourself tone, your tone calm and cool and let your sister crash out. She instantly, the audience will instantly be like, oh, here she go again, doing what she do. But it's obvious many, many, many, many, many years of resentment, hurt, pain over whatever issues, jealousy. And I don't think it's all only directed at Tamar. I think that there's a lot of two way jealousy in that family. And it's not for the things. It's not just like, oh, well, you made it. I didn't make it as big. There's just, you know, people throwing in each other's faces as we saw in the argument. That wasn't cool at all. Don't do it for me if you're gonna throw it in my face later. Do not do that. And, and I just think that they were both. There was a lot of. There was a lot enough blame to go around to the whole family with that scene, but it was ugly. And it's been ugly, though.

[Dustin]

Yeah, it's.

[Claudia]

It's been a. This is not new.

[Carlos King]

And no, they don't like each other.

[Claudia]

Listen, they don't like. They love each other, but they don't like each other.

[Sports Announcer]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Dustin]

All.

[Sports Announcer]

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[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Sports Announcer]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino Turkish to break primetime wide open. I'm Willmer Valderrama and yes, I grew up watching him. Probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

[Carlos King]

From cleaning canary cages to this night.

[Dustin]

Here in New York, it's a long ways.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, the moments it has overlapped with mine. How he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to Starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. That's part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

Hey, I'm Kelpen and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics and pop culture. And each week one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions, like, are we heading towards another financial crash? Like in 08, is non monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lilly Singh and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here we go again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bloomberg News Host]

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[Dustin]

A shutdown means that we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market.

[Bloomberg News Host]

What does a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout?

[Carlos King]

There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House.

[Bloomberg News Host]

And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't?

[Carlos King]

CPI tries to measure how to of pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PC index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure.

[Bloomberg News Host]

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[Carlos King]

And that's real. You can love somebody, but I like them. And I think Dustin clocked it. Tony Braxton went on record saying if they weren't my sisters, I would not be friends with them. She said it, she said out her own mouth. Toni Braxton also said that when, when they, when they started because, because Ms. Evelyn Braxton raised her girls to be a girl group and, and to be, you know, that as a career choice when LA Reid saw the group perform, he single handedly said I only want Toni Braxton. And Toni Braxton said this out of her own mouth, that no matter what she accomplished as a solo act, her mother will always say, that's. Baby, that's fine. Don't forget about your sisters. Don't forget about your sister.

[Dustin]

That's a lot of pressure.

[Carlos King]

Yes, yes. And Tony has said that she felt that she couldn't never enjoy her success because she was, she was, she was made to always feel like your sisters don't have it either. So even when Tracy makes you rest in peace. Did say when Tony became solo and Tony wanted. Tony worked with the other sisters, the four of them to be in a girl group when they signed the record deal is when Tracy got pregnant. And then Tracy has said this out of her own mouth that she pretty much was kicked out of the group because she was pregnant and it was. And if you watch, not watch, if you go back to the records, the Braxtons as a group was three people. So there's a lot of history there. And I think when it came to what the conversations are about, jealousy, you're a superstar, all of that. I think, unfortunately, I'm gonna say this. I think the moment Toni Braxton made it as a solo superstar, I do believe the relationship between the sisters as a unit was forever changed for sure.

[Claudia]

How. Think about if you were. I'm sorry, Dustin. Think about how the Jackson 5 were like they were a group and they were. They went through brutal training to get to where they had to get. And, and the rehearsals and all that. And then Michael's the chosen one because he stood out like that. How the kindest, most faith having person is still going to feel a way that it's human nature to feel away. It's called. And then. And then Tony is going to have that survivor's remorse. Like I'm the one that made it. There's a lot of guilt that goes along with that. And I.

[Carlos King]

You can't.

[Claudia]

You can be happy for your sister but also be low key, hating, a little jealous at the same time. And, and you can't say it right because you're supposed. It's a complex place to be. It's a complex thing to like, I.

[Dustin]

Don'T know, Claudia, I don't like that friend. I don't know. I feel like, yeah, it's real, but I don't know. Just speaking for myself, you know what I'm saying? It's not about something being wrong or right or whatever, but like, yeah, yeah, I don't think there's any Place for like jealousy and ego and pride and like that when in a, In a close relationship for like, I don't want to. If something good happens for you, I'm not gonna think, damn. You know what I'm saying? That should be me too. You know what I'm saying? I'll be like, damn, that's dope for Claudia. I'm happy for you. So I can only imagine if my brother and I did. Yeah, go ahead.

[Carlos King]

I think, I think we have to go with the fact that once again, they were brought up as sisters to be a group. Right. So it was always, the five of us are going to make it as a group. Now, I don't. I know your spirit and I'm not saying you would do.

[Dustin]

Yeah, I know what you're saying.

[Carlos King]

But if Claw, Claudia and Dustin were like Ashburn and Simpson and, or whatever. Right. The dynamic duo, Sonny. Right. Donnie and Marie Osmond. I'm so old.

[Dustin]

Go ahead.

[Carlos King]

Clock and love snowflakes.

[Dustin]

Go ahead.

[Carlos King]

Thank you, Salt Lake City shout out. Thank you. Okay. Anyway, so when. If you and Claudia were brought up since I were five years old to make it. And then at 20, Claudia has been hand selected to be ushered into the stratosphere and you're left behind. There could be some resentment and, and one example I will give. And I'm only saying this because they talked about it.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

Kelly Rowland did a song called Dirty Laundry and she. And she talked about the fact that when Beyonce became this solo superstar, she said in the song, okay, guys, before y' all be like, she's. It's her song. She said how it was difficult for her to. To see her sister on stage killing it because she was like, what about me? Like, what do I do now that my sister has made it since we were 7, 8 years old, and I'm in my 20s and my girl is the number one pop star and I'm figuring my shit out.

[Claudia]

So I like being happy and sad at the same time. And it's like, you don't want to be an asshole, like hating on them, but it's. I think it's human nature to feel that, like, well, what about me? As much as you try to quiet that voice, the what about me thing is, is. Is real. You know, I mean, like, we plan on doing something together and one gets plucked and elevated behind beyond their wildest dreams. And you're sitting there like, I'm supposed to be happy because that's my blood, but why not me too? Why couldn't it be two of us? Or why couldn't be three of us, you know, So I get that.

[Carlos King]

That's why I said. That's why I said every. I believe. And this is me having nine siblings. I believe their relationship as sisters change the moment. LA Reid selected Tony because he. He removed her from the foundation that was set by their mother. And that's why their mother. Again, guys, Tony Braxton said that. That's why the mother always said, yes, baby, congratulations on your Grammy and all this stuff, but don't you forget about your sister.

[Lawyer]

And.

[Carlos King]

And. And that's why I think when the Braxtons came along, that Tamar Braxton and. And her ex husband, Vincent Herbert paid for the pilot. And just so y' all know, the pilot was at Bravo first. And Bravo did not greenlight it, but we TV did. That's why it did appear that, you know, it was like their second win, right? Like, this could be something that we all could do as a unit. But once again, I think that foundation was never healed, which is why TD Jakes couldn't even do it.

[Claudia]

But think about the sisters, okay? They had to go through it more than once, okay? And a second on a lower scale, right? First they were together as five, and then Tony Braxton's out of here blows up, and everybody's like, wait, what? What about us? And then after years later, then Tamar breaks out as a solo star. Another chance for the other sisters to be like, what about us? Again. So they had to go through it kind of twice. And then, then, I mean, Toni Braxton is like, she's out of here. And Tamar Braxton is very successful too. So imagine what the other sisters gotta feel. You cannot tell me like, that's. That's gotta be tough for them.

[Dustin]

I don't. I just, I. I completely understand the point you make. And first of all, let me say that because I'm not challenging what either one of y' all are saying. And the way I look at things, I just would feel like, okay, if my sister is this superstar wins the best Grammy you can win, right? Best New artist, once in a lifetime chance to win. She won it. She's loved by mainstream audiences all over the world, right? If I'm talented and me and my sister have a good relationship, that's opportunity for me to have access to resources, to have my talents, be seen by others and have an opportunity, right? You. You pick up that basketball of opportunity and you dribble it. You, You, You. You work on your craft and you maintain good relationships and you showcase your art. The second time that the family got the spotlight put on them as a collective with this television show, to me, that's opportunity, too, for you to showcase your talents, do your thing, get opportunities, be good at what you say you're good at. If Tamar rockets to superstardom like she did when the show came out, that's more attention on the show, more attention on y'.

[Carlos King]

All.

[Dustin]

That's good for all of you. It's great for Tamar, but it's also good for you. And if they were looking at that as a second opportunity of being overlooked, I think the problem, the call is what they be saying. The call is coming from inside the house. Because, yeah, you had really three, but two shots to, like, do your thing. You had two windows of. Two huge windows of opportunity. You know what I'm saying? So how you look at it, overlooked as overlooked. I get it, though.

[Claudia]

You're a mature, developed, highly intelligent, emotionally intelligent person. Look how many other shows. Yeah, dot, dot dot. It just. When one gets the light on them, it makes people get jealous. They get angry. What about me? Why this? Why her? Why not me? I can sing as good as her. She only got that because this or some guy likes her. Whatever the room, whatever the. The spin is someone's gonna put, you know, and a lot of times people say they'll be happy for you when you make it, but when it really happens, will they really feel that way? And are you being an. When you do make it, are you flaunting? Are you throwing it in your sister's faces? We saw some ugly in that scene. We saw something, and then, you know, there's got to be more to that. That's what we're seeing on camera. So what is happening? Not on camera. You wish you could be me. That's why I got an ideal and you did not. Who knows what the conversations are? You know, who knows? But at the end of the day, I think one thing we can all agree on, they don't like each other.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

But you know what's funny? So listen, what's. What's so interesting is obviously Tamar and Tony are still talking because Tamar went to the verses last Saturday and was with Birdman supporting him. They FaceTime Tony Braxton. Tony looked amazing. Tony Braxton, such a diva and a legend. I love her.

[Claudia]

The glasses, sunglasses on in the house.

[Carlos King]

Looking like a bow cover. You can't take that away from that gorgeous Tony Braxton.

[Dustin]

You know what I'm saying?

[Carlos King]

I mean, living legend. So the. The thing about siblings is this you do get. You, you do find a way to get over it. My hope for the girls is this. I do hope that they find their way back because I do think that the stuff that was exposed, we didn't need to know. But I also, I also know that when your back is up against the wall, like Dustin said, no one hurt. No one. No one hurts you more than your family. And you sometimes will say to get under someone's skin. I've done it to my siblings. I'm not exempt. I'm not, I'm not exempt from saying the most egregious things to a sibling where we're arguing and, and they said it to me, but we found our way to come back. And what's, what's. I'll tell you this. What's sad is the purpose of this reboot was to honor Tracy. And I, I, I, I feel sad that that's not the focus.

[Dustin]

I never believed that. Personally, I appreciated the sentiment being shared, but I never thought for one minute they all sit down. They, they can't all sit down and talk, right? They can't get along. So I never thought for one second they said that. I was like, we're gonna honor our sister by doing this show again.

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

No, no, no. Y' all want to work.

[Claudia]

I think, honestly, I, I hate to give up on things, but it kind of seems like at this, at this age, a lot of stuff's baked in. Like, we can say therapy. I kind of feel like I think it's a Done dealing.

[Dustin]

I'm healing. Healing journey.

[Claudia]

No, no, they don't. It is, I think at this point, it is what it is and that's what it is. And that's it. Like, I don't think there's any hope. Like, and I think the best they can do is maybe see the show and be like, damn, I don't like how that looks. Yeah, play nice for the show so we can, like, let's get back. It's like Housewives of Atlanta. Like, it started off, like, so light hearted and fun and, like, fun shade. Then it got dark and negative and fighting and all that. Like, the, what made people love these shows is the ability for it to be funny and shady then, and then, and then revisit and hang out again afterwards. And I was, it did give me a little hope to see Tony and, and Tamar on that zoom. I mean, I left FaceTime with Birdman and hopefully that they can all get like that because they both, they all have a lot of personality. They're all pretty funny.

[Dustin]

Like, for sure.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

They're all talented.

[Carlos King]

And they're the closest. Tony and Tamar are of this. Of the sisters are the closest. And the closest on the other side is Tawanda and Trina. You know, so it is for, like, this split group, but. Right, right.

[Dustin]

Yes.

[Carlos King]

Trina. Yeah. Bam.

[Claudia]

I don't think Tawan is evil, though. I do think that. I do think she's frustrated. I think she's frustrated for many, many years. I think they all are, like. And it's kind of like a thing of what came first, the chicken of the egg. Like, I'm sure camera I could point to, well, you did this to me first, and then I responded like this. And I'm sure Tawana could be like, well, you did. Did me like this. And that's why I said this about you. Like, it's. Who knows where it really started. I think so many things have happened where they both can have a case of who started it. But it's very clear that, you know, both sides have been very hurt.

[Carlos King]

And I don't like. I don't like the mental illness comments. I just. That was that. That was the one where I was sort of like, this is. Listen, no shade. Because I got siblings. Sometimes you not give you bug a sibling. It's what it is that I'll just be real. That bothered me as much as the mental illness conversations did because I just felt like that was just something that I don't think should be included in any argument. You know what I mean? Like, the. The notion of that. Whether or not it was Tawanda's, you know, point of saying you're sick in terms of making light of that, she has to say whether or not she meant in that way. But I just thought, like, sure seemed.

[Dustin]

Like it, didn't it?

[Claudia]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

I just felt like of all things, I just didn't. I. I didn't like that because, you know, Tamar has been open about dealing with mental illness and. And all those things. And I just think those type of conversations, it just wasn't a place for it. But I also think this. I think Claudia's right in the sense of these women. Some are over 50.

[Dustin]

I think Tamar, 48, at the time of filming. Remember when she. When she showed her body off to Trina in the heat of the argument and was like, you're a jealous. I will be 2:48. She tapped her butt cheeks. Do you remember that part? Yeah, I remember that part. Did you see that part?

[Carlos King]

Thank you, Dustin, for the colorful Description? Yes, I do. That's why I was sort of like, things got.

[Dustin]

You doing all that. Ah, you jealous? Yeah. I'm 48. That's what she was doing.

[Claudia]

That's crazy talking y'.

[Dustin]

All.

[Claudia]

That's. That. That's a crazy fight to have that cash.

[Dustin]

I don't know if I'd have been cussing to one out, because she could have, you know, all you see is that purple. You know what I'm saying?

[Carlos King]

Not the purple. Not the purple. But what I will say, I do agree with Claudia. I think, look, they're close to 50 over 50, I think, at this point. And it's sad to say, but I've had lived experience too, like you two did. I just think at some point, you get to pick and choose who you want to be part of. Of your own family.

[Dustin]

Can we give notes? Because while when you had had technical difficulties at the top of the show, Claudia and I were talking a little bit more about the Braxtons in general. And I. I wanted to share this with you, too, before we get out of here. I'm tired of the. The formula. The formula needs to change when it comes to the Braxtons, right? These are people of a certain age, right? People with children, you know, grandchildren. Doesn't Trina have grandchildren anyway? Yeah, I think one of Trina's sons may or may not be married or have a child. I don't know. But they're. They're at a certain station in life. All we really have been getting from the Braxtons is either the sisters arguing, going for blood against each other, or else they're together and they're acting silly and singing when they talk. You know what I'm saying? Tawanda did it in this episode when she was on the phone at the dress fitting for her Ladies of honor, which do what you want to do, but it's just confusing when everything's different, right? Like nothing is just what it is. Everything's. Well, no, we're gonna call him this one. Are we gonna wear this? Well, no, we're doing it to. Everything is off, off the dad and they. Daddy should have took his head off before he walked down the aisle, too. But anyway, we see Tawanda at the dress shop trying this stuff on, right? And when she's talking to Tony on the phone, this is how you know somebody is, like, not really present when they talk to you. She was going, yeah, we at the bridal shop getting ready for the bridgeton shower.

[Carlos King]

Say hi.

[Dustin]

Everything is singing. Nothing is really real. She'll be doing that when she talked to Trina. Her and Trina just be kicking it, talking. You know what I'm saying? That represents. Am I off here? Or does that not represent, like, a lack of connection? You know what I'm saying.

[Claudia]

That much?

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

We need.

[Sports Announcer]

We need to stop.

[Dustin]

And if they're not arguing with each other, they singing songs and making us. They being silly and childish in a way that used to be charming when the show first started. That's what we love the most about seeing them be together and make up those songs, like you said, which we all love and still remember. We love seeing that. But now, 10, 10 years later, the fighting or either acting childlike is really getting played out when there's a whole bunch of story in between all of that. Carlos, you're a producer. You see all this story that these sisters had that is not in the cut whatsoever. We got to change up the formula because the rest of it.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, it's. Listen, obviously I, I agree with that. I, I want to see them have fun and sing and, And. And. And create a new formula. You know, you're seeing some of that with the Kardashians and their new season. Whether people like it or not is. It's different than Keeping Up. But to Dust, his point, there's a new formula involved in that one. So on one hand, it's like, yes, you follow the reality. The reality is this happened. But I think to Dust's point, on the other hand, you saw the trying the elements of, like, the bts, the producers being involved. So you're seeing something different than Braxton family values. But I think tonally, yes, some things have to change. I agree with you, Dustin. Yes.

[Claudia]

And it's not just them. It's 90 of the blacks.

[Carlos King]

It's a genre.

[Claudia]

Every show is, oh, such and such. Read her down and she cussed her out and she went on. And I'm like, black folks, we are more than just fighting. Yes, we are passionate people. Yes, we get emotional. Yes, we go from 0 to 100. And, you know, we. We put a little stank on everything. That's why we're the best people to watch on shows like Family.

[Carlos King]

We're so emotional.

[Claudia]

But God damn it, is that all we are is fighting, catching someone cheating, cussing someone out, embarrassing someone on camera and, like, reading someone down. Like, every single show is that nowadays, every show is that. It's so, like, switch, Switch the name of the show. Like, just insert the same storyline, different, different cast members, and it's dead and that's why people are not as excited about any. Hardly any of these shows anymore. Because we got to get back to the funny. That's why. With your show, with. With Bells, Carlos, it's nice that we still have. We have some drama, but there is still some opportunity for humor. That's what we're missing. Like, if I want to see fighting all day, I can throw on cnn. I can throw on the news. And we want to escape from that. Like, all we see is bickering, bickering, bickering, bickering with everything. And it's like, damn. Like, it's cool. There's a balance. Okay, fight. But then y' all went to a strip club and y' all laughed your asses off.

[Dustin]

Exactly.

[Claudia]

Enjoyed it.

[Dustin]

Okay.

[Claudia]

But when it's only. It's the scales, Ms. Libra. The scales are just so unbalanced, and that's all we get. And that's why I don't really, like. Honestly, that's the main reason why I'm so late on a lot of reality shows, because I'm like. I just assume that all they're doing is arguing.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

You know what I mean? So I'm seeing that. Not all. It's not 10.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dustin]

No. And I love. It's no secret. Y' all know I watch all the fighting. I love Zeus. I watch. Now that's tv. I watch all that. But let it be that. Call the show the Braxton ass beatings and put it on Zeus. You know what I'm saying? Unless let's make it that if that's what we gonna watch.

[Claudia]

Otherwise, family values or.

[Dustin]

That's right. And y' all rooted in the church. One minute. Y' all want to be rooted in the church, and everything is about the Lord and gospel and our upbringing. But Tamar is on verses with her tongue stuck out, bobbing to the same music I'm singing every word to in my worldly home. So you know what I'm saying? I don't be who you are. We love the Braxtons as much as Tamar has done things that have been difficult to enjoy. I still love Tamar Braxton's talent. Right. I think she's an incredible singer. I think she's a brilliant television personality. I think Trina Braxton is hilarious. I think Tawanda Braxton is interesting. I think Toni Braxton is iconic. I want to watch the show. I want to see them and see what's going on in their lives beyond what we know about them. You know what I'M saying I don't want to see them clawing blood out of each other's necks as sisters. I just don't want to see that. So. But shout out to them. Like I said, I want the show to continue. May they have multiple seasons, may it continue. And hopefully we end up seeing them find some sort of peace and some sort of bridge of. Of harmony and togetherness as sisters. Because they all, while they're cussing each other out, some of that pain might be from grief, I mean, I'd imagine.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dustin]

They lost their niece, the Ashley Denise. Actually, her sister is the one who passed away. Tracy passed away. They experienced a lot of loss. So some of that acting out that we see is more than likely rooted in that. My wish is for them to find healing and get along and keep singing. You know what I'm saying?

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Dustin]

That's what I hope for them. That's why we so frustrated when we seen Tamar turn around and show her ass cheeks to trina talking about 48 hitting her butt. We didn't want to see her. Them speaking to each other like that. We want to see them figuring it out.

[Claudia]

Damn. I was just about to stand up and show my 52 year old cheeks, but I won't do it now.

[Carlos King]

Call me.

[Dustin]

You gotta call me a. A look at.

[Carlos King]

Yes, Claudia.

[Claudia]

You jealous my 52 year old. You wish you could have chicks like this. Jealous ass nigga.

[Dustin]

I didn't touch you, Claudia.

[Carlos King]

I didn't touch you, Claudia.

[Claudia]

Yes, you did. You pulled my hair.

[Dustin]

I didn't touch you, Clyde.

[Claudia]

Tamar, we want you to get along.

[Dustin]

Yeah, we do.

[Claudia]

The fans, actually, at this point, getting along would be breaking news. And we would love to run with that. We would love to run with that. We would love to.

[Carlos King]

And, and I'll say this, just because they had this moment of, of, you know, verbal dispute or whatever and, and Tamar pulling and kicking. At the end of the day, we saw Kim and Courtney slap the. On each other.

[Dustin]

Yeah. But please, you already know.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, right. So, like, so for the audience, like, calm down. That's what I said. I. I was less about. Because siblings fight. Kim and Courtney in their 40s fought two years ago.

[Claudia]

Half of Kim's face was on the wall. The makeup was on the wall.

[Dustin]

Baby, baby, we ain't unfairly holding them to a standard as anyone else. They're not representing black people. This is not that type of conversation. I speak for myself. I'm pretty sure I can speak for y' all too. Yeah, I don't Give a. About none of that. We just talking about the Braxtons. You know what I'm saying?

[Carlos King]

Yes. We're not. We're not.

[Dustin]

We're not punishing them for, you know, misrepresented. No, this ain't that. Everybody fight, everybody argue, everybody talk. All that stuff happens. We just talking about what we saw.

[Carlos King]

Yeah.

[Claudia]

I never had a sister before. I have a half sister, but I didn't know about her. Like, it was like, when I was older. So I never had, like, any fights like me and my brother when we were little, but not really. Like, I. I don't know that life. I really don't. And even with my friends, I rarely have fights or arguments with my friends. Like, when I lose a big deal for me, like, I be going through it because I'm like, how did I lose a friend? I guess big deal.

[Dustin]

I'm the youngest. Like, my siblings ain't never made me feel like no. That little boy or whatever. We always been down friends, always been like.

[Carlos King]

And Dustin has a very supportive. I mean, all your siblings are supportive.

[Dustin]

Yeah.

[Carlos King]

I met the one that came to Atlanta.

[Dustin]

Yeah. My sister. Yeah. My older sister. She's the oldest, and I'm the youngest. So you've seen. You've seen it for yourself. You know what it is. So I don't. My experience might be a little did. That don't mean we don't get on each other's nerves and have disagreements and challenges in our relationship. Of course you do. But I'll be. Damn it ain't nothing I can say that ain't. That ain't nothing nobody could do to make me turn on my brother or my sister.

[Claudia]

Y' all think the lot. I know we gotta go, but a lot of. Like I say about relationships on reality shows, a lot of this is just escalated because they're on television and they're on then, and they're doing it in front of people. Like, I don't. I think it's. It's a thing of. I can't get read down. Okay. And then the comments. Oh, you ain't gonna let your sister talk to you like that. It's. I think things get escalated and extra batteries get put on back because of the TV show. I bet you it was not ugly before they got on tv. It's probably ugly, but this level is just.

[Dustin]

That's why you got to be all right up here with it, you know what I'm saying? To where you're not motivated by. I think Tamar and Tawanda, based on What. What I seen, what I saw on the show, they appeared to be motivated by a desire to win the argument and shame the other one. And that's ego and pride. You know what I'm saying? And history as well, but that's rooted in ego and pride. You can't be in that headspace. You got to be present and remember who you're talking to, remember what the relationship is, remember how much you value it, and that will impact the way that you communicate with a person. Of course, you're human, and you have emotions. You have feelings and thoughts, and. But you need to be able to take another step in thought and consider the person, consider the relationship, consider what needs to take place for things to be good as opposed to for you to avenge something, and then you can make progress. And I think that we just didn't see that in these four episodes from the sisters we saw. No, I'm gonna get you. You know what I'm saying? That's what we saw.

[Claudia]

I know Mama Evelyn must be so stressed out, like, seeing her daughters fighting. Like, it's probably like.

[Carlos King]

Yeah. Especially when she was going through the heart issues. This. Oh, no, those. Those are her. Those are her baby. Those are her girls. And that's why. Look, I will say this. Sometimes you have to see yourself on television and be like, got it. You know, like, so my. My hope is that the sisters were all able to look at this and hopefully move on from it and see the errors of some of the ways. But look, we have, I think, six more episodes to go to this season. The only thing we know is, as of today, the only thing we know is Tamar and Tony are speaking to each other. We have to watch and see what happens. But in next week's episode, it does appear that Tamar is not at Tawanda's wedding, so.

[Claudia]

Oh, I spilled the beans on that, didn't I?

[Carlos King]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's. That's already been teased for the show.

[Lawyer]

So.

[Claudia]

Yeah, honestly, when I was there, I was thinking, nah, like, maybe because they were filming while we were there, right. We had releases, put our phones away from. Part of me was like, nah, man. Like, at the last minute, she's gonna walk through, and it's gonna be like a big. Oh, you know, I mean, I thought that I was actually kind of hoping for that for them.

[Dustin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Claudia]

Because, like, it felt a little like, damn, how am I here and she's not? You know, I felt kind of bad.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now look, my thoughts and prayers are with the entire Braxton family. And look, my. My advice is this too shall pass. And. And. And just really try to. I'll say I'll. I'll end by saying this. For me, I think at the end of the day, there's a respectful relationship to have, I think based on people being 50 plus. I'm not here to ever advocate that you must be best friends with your sibling at this point. And I think. I think I. I think if that's not what's happening right now, it's okay to say I love her, but I can love from a distance. I'm cool with that.

[Dustin]

Me too. I'm actually fine with that. I prefer that because if you harboring some resentment and I don't want you pretending to get along with me and being around me, I'd rather you be up front like, yo, I don't. With you. I'm not going to. Hey, seven. I don't. With you, I'm not going to. So get from around me. I'd rather you do that. So. I agree.

[Claudia]

I don't think you should have to force something because of your family.

[Dustin]

Like, I don't believe in that.

[Claudia]

Yep. You stress me out. You my cousin, my aunt, my mother, or my brother. Sorry. I'm not. I'm not living like.

[Dustin]

Which is why you appreciate the ones that do you Right. Even more. And you take advantage of opportunities to show love to your friends and family, who, when things are good, you should make note of that. You shouldn't always tell a person how you feel about them because y' all are in conflict and it's negative. Tell people how much you love them. Tell them how much you appreciate the role that they play in your life when it comes to your friends and family. That's important to me. I feel like my friends and family that I love and with like that are supposed to know it because it affirms the relationship and makes people feel safe when it's honest. You know, when somebody blowing smoke up your ass. But big your friends up, big your family up. You know what I'm saying? And. And just make sure that that heartbeat is there in those relationships, because as you can see, the absence of it looks crazy. So.

[Carlos King]

Yeah, agreed. All right, well, listen, I love you too. As if we were all from the same womb. So know that.

[Dustin]

Same person.

[Carlos King]

You know what I'm saying? Yes. Two Aries and a Libra. Baby, what a time.

[Dustin]

Cardio we twin right?

[Carlos King]

Okay, Ray Drops. We will see y' all on Monday. Have A great weekend. And happy Halloween. And don't forget, daylight savings time on Sunday.

[Dustin]

That's right.

[Claudia]

Happy Halloween, y'.

[Dustin]

All.

[Claudia]

See you Monday.

[Carlos King]

I love y'. All. Reality with the King is executive produced by me, Carlos King, produced by Lizzy Nimitz and a partnership with the Lack Effect Network. You can also find us on my YouTube channel at the Carlos King.

[Sports Announcer]

What a matchup we got, y'.

[Dustin]

All.

[Sports Announcer]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance, echo, drum beat. Everybody showing that school pride. A game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.

[Dustin]

Mmm.

[Sports Announcer]

Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola, that's a winning combo. No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

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[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

On an all new episode of iHeartRadio's Las Culturistas, Jennifer Lawrence is dishing Jennifer Lawrence from her hilariously awkward run ins with a Listers.

[Claudia]

I don't know what I was expecting, but he was just like, nice to meet you.

[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

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[Claudia]

I'm so upset I didn't get Botox before that.

[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

And a jaw dropping reveal you won't see coming.

[Claudia]

I don't know if I can announce.

[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

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[Bloomberg News Host]

The big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day.

[Dustin]

My fellow Americans, this is liberation day.

[Bloomberg News Host]

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[Claudia]

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[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

Hey, I'm Kalpen, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lilly Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics.

[Dustin]

Put another way, are you high?

[Podcast Host (Kal Penn / Las Culturistas Announcer)]

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, but my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.