The Breakfast Club BEST OF SHOW - Andrew Young & John Hope Bryant & Abby Phillip interview

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club BEST OF SHOW – Andrew Young, John Hope Bryant, & Abby Phillip Interview

Podcast: The Breakfast Club
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God (plus appearances from Angela Yee & Lauren LaRose)
Guests: Andrew Young, John Hope Bryant, Abby Phillip, Lani Smith, Cecil Williams, Frederica Newton, Fred Hampton Jr.
Date: January 19, 2026

Episode Theme

This “Best Of” episode centers on U.S. Civil Rights legacy and Black political power. Tied to Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, it revisits interviews with civil rights legends (notably Andrew Young), delves into contemporary Black entrepreneurship with Lani Smith, and spotlights political journalism through Abby Phillip’s recent work on Jesse Jackson. The show blends historic reflection, present-day activism, and authentic listener engagement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Honoring MLK Jr. & Surviving Civil Rights Legends

• Martin Luther King, Jr. Day Reflection
  • The hosts discuss how MLK Jr. would’ve been 96 if alive (01:51) and note that many civil rights heroes—like Andrew Young and Jesse Jackson—are still with us.
  • Charlamagne stresses, “A lot of times we say people could have been at a certain age, but Martin Luther King Jr. truly could have still been here…” (01:58)
• Andrew Young’s Legacy
  • Former top MLK strategist, Atlanta mayor, and U.N. ambassador, Young is lauded for both humble leadership and historic impact (02:37–03:07).
  • Interview preview sets up discussions around his new documentary “Dirty Work.”
    • Young: “We see the glamour of the civil rights movement… but… there were 500 to a thousand of us… doing the dirty work” (29:36).

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Listener Calls & Community Engagement (04:00–12:00)

• Open Dialogue on Body Positivity & Self-Love
  • Frequent caller Keisha critiques Charlamagne’s attitude, providing a candid, spirited exchange about self-acceptance, respect, and hustling as a mom and healthcare worker (04:00–08:32).
  • Notable Keisha quote: “You need to deal with that. Like you like to read self-help books, but only for entertainment, clearly, because nothing's sticking” (04:18).
• Mental Health Struggles
  • Caller Tiara shares her battle with depression; Charlamagne answers with empathy and an offer of personal support (09:24–10:41).
• Listener Gripes About Show Regulars
  • Sharita, from New Jersey, humorously complains about another “loyal” listener calling too often, sparking a lighthearted exchange about Breakfast Club community dynamics (10:45–11:36).

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Intergenerational Civil Rights, Fashion, and Entrepreneurship (12:00–28:00)

Actively Black Fashion Show

• Guests: Lani Smith, Cecil Williams, Frederica Newton, Fred Hampton Jr.
• Why This Gathering Matters
  • Lani Smith, founder of Actively Black, speaks on the significance of hosting historic civil rights figures—and children of legend—on the runway, making history feel recent and visceral (12:14–12:54).
  • “The way that Black people responded to seeing these people on the runway, knowing this history wasn’t that long ago… has been powerful” (12:20).
  • Stories of legendary images, e.g., Cecil Williams’ famous photo at a segregated water fountain, illuminate the personal risks and defiant spirit of the era (12:59–13:40).
• Faith, Fear, and Defiance
  • Cecil Williams describes repeatedly breaking racial barriers as daily acts of faith, not just conscious rebellion: “I was thirsty… but also, this was not the first time I did this” (13:09).
• The Real Distance from Segregation
  • Hosts and guests emphasize how recent segregation truly was, citing both personal memories and Ruby Bridges, who’s only 71 (15:24–15:47).
• Perspective on White People
  • Questions about resentment are honestly handled. Fred Hampton Jr., Frederica Newton, and Cecil Williams stress motivation by love, not hate, and direct condemnation at systems of white supremacy, not individuals (16:20–19:42).
  • Notable: “A revolutionary… is guided by the most sincere sentiments of love… the motivation for getting up… was not directed out of hatred for anyone” – Fred Hampton Jr. (18:04).
• Actively Black’s Mission & Brand Name
  • Smith shares pushback he received in naming his brand; he persisted to counter Black inferiority narratives: “There’s greatness in our DNA” (23:42).
  • The brand’s profits support museums, Black Panther Party, and family legacies (24:01–25:41).
• Calls to Support Black Museums
  • Guests provide donation links and encourage visits to Black history institutions across the country (27:14–28:17).

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Andrew Young & John Hope Bryant: “Dirty Work” and Activist Wisdom (29:00–53:40)

Andrew Young’s Journey & Humility

• How Young Joined MLK
  • Young recalls how his wife prompted them to return south; he was drawn to “dirty work,” supporting movement logistics and communications (29:36–33:21).
  • “If there’s something that I think needs doing and nobody wants to do it, that becomes my purpose” (35:07).
• Movement Structure
  • Churches and word-of-mouth were vital communication and organizing centers—preachers, music, humor, and mass meetings kept spirits high and information flowing (38:12–40:56).
• Handling Mortal Danger
  • Even facing real threats, the movement balanced courage with humor and community, not martyrdom alone. Young: “It was finding a way to get the people where they are… they would really say, I’m ready to die for my people…” (38:12–41:11, paraphrased).
• Survivor’s Guilt & Reluctant Heroism
  • John Hope Bryant details Young’s substantial achievements and persistent humility, noting Young’s survivor’s guilt from MLK’s assassination: “He couldn't enjoy any of it. He’d give all his money away.” (36:56–37:54)
• Lessons for Organizers—Value the Dirty Work
  • The core message: social change needs people willing to handle the unglamorous, essential tasks with “noble work… the kind of work that has to be done” (52:12–52:46).
• On MLK and Malcolm X: Myths vs. Reality
  • Young clarifies there wasn’t animosity—differences in public persona were mostly strategic; in private, there was mutual respect and recognition of unique roles (48:41–51:06).

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Abby Phillip: Jesse Jackson’s Legacy and Political Journalism (60:17–88:16)

Book: A Dream Deferred: Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power

• Why Jesse Jackson’s Story Matters
  • Abby Phillip argues many are unaware of Jackson’s near-presidency in 1988—how foundational his campaign was for Obama and today’s progressive movements (60:35–61:49).
  • “Had he not run, Obama wouldn't have been the nominee... these are people running on basically the same platform…” (60:35).
• Jackson as Coalition Builder
  • Biggest myth: he was “just the Black candidate.” In fact, he built multiracial alliances, reached white farmers, Asian American activists, and insisted on inclusive politics (63:59–65:43).
  • “He actually brought… a rainbow of people into the political process… People remember him as being the candidate for Black people, but… he had as much appeal among white voters” (63:59).
• Where Jackson Fell Short
  • Faced media bias, minimal party support, and damaging controversies like the private use of an anti-Semitic slur. Lack of alternative media limited his message’s reach (67:09–68:53).
• How Jackson Would Have Changed Politics
  • Phillip suggests if Jackson had become president in the 80s, subsequent Black candidates like Obama and Harris would face less skepticism and credential-scrutiny from white voters (79:25–82:30).
• Phillip’s Approach to Journalism
  • Defends debate-format show; insists on exposing diverse viewpoints, even amid left-wing criticism for platforming MAGA voices: “You should know what they’re saying. Half the country voted for Trump… it’s not helpful to be completely unaware…” (71:33).
  • Sets boundaries when debates cross the line—e.g., guests who wish harm are banned—and stresses a non-censorious, facts-first environment: “We’re trying to encourage speech, not squelch it.” (78:08–79:03)
• On Viral Cam’ron Interview
  • Phillip recounts the infamous “Pink Horsepower” interview with Cam’ron and handles both the awkwardness and virality with professionalism and a commitment to learning rather than retreating (82:31–87:53).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Civil Rights Legacy:
  • “There’s greatness in our DNA.” – Lani Smith [23:42]
  • “What motivates people is not hatred, but love for other people.” – Frederica Newton [19:42]
• Self-Love and Real Talk:
  • “You need to go look in the mirror and tell yourself you love yourself because you always tear people down… you need to deal with that.” – Keisha [04:18]
  • “I think me and Keisha need to learn to love ourselves a little bit more.” – Charlamagne [08:22]
• On the Value of ‘Dirty Work’:
  • “There is some dirty work in any struggle for freedom… it’s the kind of work that… has to be done.” – Andrew Young [51:21, 52:13]
  • “Raising your children is the most honorable version [of dirty work].” – Fred Hampton Jr. [52:46]
• On Jesse Jackson’s Campaign:
  • “He was also in Missouri with white farmers, in San Francisco with Asian American activists… he actually brought… a rainbow of people into the political process.” – Abby Phillip [63:59]
• Bravery in the Movement:
  • “Even though we could potentially die, people were willing to make that sacrifice… that’s what’s missing.” – Charlamagne [41:04]
  • “You shouldn’t be willing to make the sacrifice. You should be willing to take your time and assume you can make the world right and you don’t have to die.” – Andrew Young [41:11]
• On Modern Black Political Leadership:
  • “If the country had elected a Black president [decades ago], candidates like Kamala Harris or Barack Obama would not have to do so much to show Americans that they’re qualified.” – Abby Phillip [79:25]
  • “Obama was incredibly credentialed, but also incredibly authentic in the communities where he needed to be.” [82:30]
• On Platforming Debate:
  • “I want the debate… I want it to be right there out in the open… It’s a really important skill in our politics we can go back and forth, and I’ll take the criticism.” – Abby Phillip [71:32]
  • “Sometimes they get a little bit messy, and that’s okay. But I also think disrespecting people in a way that is inhumane… that’s where we draw lines.” [78:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Honoring MLK & Civil Rights Legends: 01:44–03:13
• Listener Keisha Calls In (Self-Love, Body Positivity): 04:00–08:32
• Mental Health Caller: 09:24–10:41
• Actively Black Fashion Show & Civil Rights Icons: 12:00–28:17
• Andrew Young and John Hope Bryant Interview ('Dirty Work'): 29:00–53:40
• Abby Phillip and Jesse Jackson’s Legacy: 60:17–88:16

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Final Note Quotes

"Develop an attitude of gratitude and give thanks for everything that happens to you, knowing that every step forward is a step toward achieving something bigger and better than your current situation." – Charlamagne Tha God [88:16]

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This episode is a sweeping journey through the living history of civil rights, modern Black leadership, and community resilience. Mixing legend interviews, honest caller feedback, and contemporary analysis, it bridges generations of activism and clarifies the continued fight for power, dignity, and representation. Listeners leave with stories of hope, pitfalls, great love, and a clear call to embrace the “dirty work”—necessary, noble, and ongoing.

Transcript

[Angela Yee]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hollywood is buzzing. Award winning director Von Kovac has come out of retirement, promising to redefine the superhero genre with his remake of Wonder Man. At the center is Simon Williams, a man desperate to be a star, but hiding a dangerous secret. He has superpowers outlawed in Hollywood, with Trevor Slattery mentoring him. Hilarity and heart collide in ways only Marvel could deliver. Starring Emmy award winner Yaya Abdul Mateen II and Oscar winner Ben Kingsley. This is Marvel like you've never seen it before. Don't miss Marvel Television's Wonder man screaming. January 27th at 6:00pm Pacific Time only on Disney. Wake you up.

[DJ Envy]

Wake that ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Program your Alarm to Power 105.1 on iHeartradio. Good morning, USA. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

[Andrew Young]

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

[DJ Envy]

Just hilarious. Good morning, Charlamagne. To God.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Peace to the planet. It's Monday. Martin Luther King Jr. Day, baby.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Salute to MLK, man.

[Abby Phillip]

Make civil rights. Make some noise, y', all, with the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

F. Could you stop? How old would he have been? Make some noise with the F. Would have been 96.

[Caller Keisha]

Yes, make some noise, y', all, with.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The F. And you know, so crazy. A lot of times we say people could have been at a certain age, but Martin Luther King Jr. Truly could have still been here on this planet. 96 year old. 96 years old. If he wasn't, you know, tragically murdered and taken away from us back in the day. Because think about it. Andrew Young is still alive. Who will be replaying his Interview, you know, later today. And he was a top strategist for Martin Luther King, Jr. Reverend Jesse Jackson is still alive. Like, there's so many people from the civil rights movement. That was with Martin Luther King, Jr. That is Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. That is still alive today.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

So today on the show, we're gonna play back our interview with Andrew Young.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Andrew Young and John o'.

[Abby Phillip]

Brien.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[DJ Envy]

Discuss the interview. Cause I wasn't here that day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, Andrew Young, like I said, he was the top strategist for Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Man. And I mean, he really lived it. So, I mean, Andrew Young, and he was also former mayor of Atlanta. Like, Andrew Young's done so many different things, so he'll just be here to talk about himself. But he was also being too humble.

[Abby Phillip]

And that's why Mr. John O' Brien.

[DJ Envy]

Had to step in like, yo, stop.

[Abby Phillip]

Being humble and get him the facts. Like, tell him, you know, he's such a nice. He's such a nice guy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I think with guys like Andrew Young, you know, it's hard for him not to be humble simply because it was just his life.

[Andrew Young]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? Like, to us, we're looking at it like, wow, this is amazing. But to him, he just lived it. Just lived it. This is his life. He don't know nothing else. Yeah, absolutely.

[DJ Envy]

And also, we're getting on Abby Phillips interview.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know why we getting Abby Phillips on? Because Abby Phillips put out a book that was about Jesse Jackson. It is called. Yes, it was called Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power. You know what I mean? So, like I said, these brothers that were actually there with Martin Luther King Jr. Are still alive, man. So, you know, let's have conversations about them all.

[DJ Envy]

All right, well, get your ass up. It's the Breakfast Club.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Good morning.

[Andrew Young]

It's a new day. This is your time to get it off your chest.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wait.

[Andrew Young]

Wake up.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Whether you're mad or blessed, it's time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

To get up and get something.

[Andrew Young]

Call up now.

[DJ Envy]

800-585-1051.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

We want to hear from you on the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Hello?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who's this?

[Caller Keisha]

Keisha from Florida.

[DJ Envy]

I see why you upset Keisha.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What? Keisha mad about you? What I do to Keisha?

[Caller Keisha]

What you do, Charlemagne? You hate her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't owe you no child support.

[DJ Envy]

You want me to tell him, Keisha? Keisha said she want to know why Charlamagne don't like fat people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why sound like fat people?

[Angela Yee]

You Be talking crazy.

[Caller Keisha]

No, that's not what I said. I want to know why Charlemagne hates that people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't hate fat people. Why?

[DJ Envy]

What?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Come talk to me. Yes, you do. Tell me why you think I hate.

[Caller Keisha]

You hate a lot of people like you. You got some issues. Charlamagne, baby. I want you to go look in the mirror and tell yourself you love yourself because you always tear people down no matter what it costs. And you don't pour into people and build them up unless it pours and builds you up too. And that's the problem, honey. You need to. You need to deal with that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Could you tell me why you think I hate fat people?

[Caller Keisha]

That's a man.

[Andrew Young]

You're.

[Caller Keisha]

You're somewhat attractive. You don't have a reason to be such a white.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now you got me listening, Keisha. Now I'm really listening, Keisha. Now I'm really listening. Yes, I am somewhat attractive. Why do you think I hate fat people though?

[Caller Keisha]

All the comments about the fat people and the airlines when Lauren's on, you have all these things to say about Lauren and her relationship going to sell. Just say something. You cut just down. You're a hater in general, baby. And I mean that comes from some kind of hate within yourself. We need to deal with that. Like you like to read self help books, but only for entertainment, clearly, because nothing's sticking.

[DJ Envy]

Keisha, asking what a big person did to you. What a big person did to you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nothing. I just don't agree with the fact that, you know. No, I agree with the fact that Southwest Airlines needs to make them pay for another airline.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, but even before that, because then you remember like you and Risa Tisa had a thing. You remember her?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What I said about Reese.

[Caller Keisha]

Go sign me baby. Co sign me baby. That's what I'm talking about.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When we first heard recent voice, I just said she sounded like she was heavyset.

[DJ Envy]

Keisha, are you. Are you heavy set?

[Abby Phillip]

I am.

[Andrew Young]

I am.

[Caller Keisha]

I'm a proud 371 pounds on a thigh problem. And that's the only problem. 371. You white, baby.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Three.

[Caller Keisha]

So it's six kids. Cause this cootie cat.

[Andrew Young]

Good.

[Caller Keisha]

Six kids. They can't stay out of it. Don't play.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How tall are you?

[Cecil Williams]

Look good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How tall are you?

[Caller Keisha]

Five, six and a half.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, your height. Five, six. Oh, she said five, six and a half. Five, six and a half.

[Andrew Young]

See what I'm saying?

[Caller Keisha]

You such a hater. You block your own ears from hearing. Baby, listen.

[Angela Yee]

371.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen. God, bless Keisha and everything that Keisha said.

[Angela Yee]

Go off. Keisha.

[DJ Envy]

Keisha.

[Caller Keisha]

I mean, I'm just saying. I'm getting off job number two, about to take my kids to school and go to job number one because I'm a hustler and a baller like that. Paying for a little extra sheet ain't nothing because I don't want to sit next to nobody anyway. I don't like being close up on people like that. I do that because I'm in the healthcare field. So when I'm on my free time, get out my face.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, listen, Keisha, speaking of number ones and number threes, what's your favorite fast food?

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Oh, my goodness.

[Podcast Narrator]

Keisha, you have a good day.

[Caller Keisha]

I don't have one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, okay.

[Caller Keisha]

I like DJ Steakhouse. Get on my level.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Caller Keisha]

Stop being a hater. Feed into people, talk into people. It costs nothing to be nice. It costs nothing to give love.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love you, Keisha. We appreciate you.

[DJ Envy]

I love you and I respect you, Keisha.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love you and I respect you so, so much, Keisha.

[Lani Smith]

No, you don't.

[Caller Keisha]

Cause as soon as this falls over, you gonna talk so much crap about me, it's not even gonna be funny. Except to you. Except to you. I listen to the show every day. You are haters, Charl. I need you to love you whatever hurt. Little boy is still in there crying out. Give him some attention, some love and some love. Read them Sato books, take notes and let something stick because something wrong.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, ma'.

[Abby Phillip]

Am.

[Caller Keisha]

If somebody need to tell you something ain't right. Something ain't right. I'm glad you got your family back. That's cool. But I mean, work on you now.

[Angela Yee]

She was listening to me yesterday.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Listen, you spread that lie, Lauren. Talk about I got my family back.

[Angela Yee]

I'm talking about when you got in trouble and you had to get your life right with your wife. Remember?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That never happened. You look at that guy. The envy that happened to Envy. See, hey, that was not me.

[Angela Yee]

I thought it was both of y'.

[Abby Phillip]

All.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, it was not. That was Envy. Okay, Shout out to Keisha, though, man.

[Angela Yee]

So good saying that. I don't know. It felt good saying that to you. Yesterday, you. You told me I was going to be a side hustle.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yo, Keisha is five six, and Keisha is five six and a half. 371.

[DJ Envy]

Yes, she is.

[Caller Keisha]

Woo.

[DJ Envy]

Keisha, you have a great day. She works in the healthcare business, so she probably a nurse.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think me and Keisha need to learn to love ourselves. A little bit more.

[Andrew Young]

Shut up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's all I'm saying. You have morning kea.

[Cecil Williams]

Damn.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn, kea.

[DJ Envy]

Keisha working two, three jobs.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You got six kids.

[DJ Envy]

I wish Keisha. I wish I could have g. I would have paid for Keisha lunch today.

[Angela Yee]

Why lunch?

[DJ Envy]

Well, why?

[Angela Yee]

Why? You don't know.

[Lani Smith]

She need.

[Angela Yee]

She might need to t up on her car.

[DJ Envy]

Cuz I'm going to do like $50 for lunch.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'll pay for Kim's Olympic shots. I'll pay for her ke. God bless Keisha, though, man.

[Angela Yee]

Be funny talking about pay for lunch today. That's what I do all the time. You don't listen to the show?

[DJ Envy]

I pay for people's lunch.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why? Well, we got all these golden corral certificates around here. Why you need to pay for Keisha's lunch?

[DJ Envy]

You know what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We got all these golden corral certificates. She can even cry for a year for free. And you want to pay for a lunch?

[DJ Envy]

Get it off your chest. 800. 5, 8, 5. 10, 5 1. If you need to vent, hit us up now. It's the Breakfast Club.

[Lani Smith]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Hello. Who's this?

[Caller Keisha]

Hi, this is Tiara. I used to be neighbors with Charlamagne. My grandmother used to hit on him in the elevator.

[Angela Yee]

Oh, wow.

[DJ Envy]

How many men did you see going in and out of the place?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good morning, Tiara.

[Caller Keisha]

Good morning. How are you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I am blessed, black, and highly favored. How your grandma doing?

[Caller Keisha]

Oh, same as always, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Send him my love, please.

[Abby Phillip]

I will.

[Caller Keisha]

I'm calling because I'm exhausted from fighting my mental health alone. I live with severe depression and anxiety and only felt genuinely happy, like, twice. I'm stuck in a cycle of burnout and brief relief, and I'm scared to be more of the same. You know, Charlamagne always talks openly about letting his mental health, not letting his mental health stop his success. And that's why I'm reaching out. I'm a creative person who feels like life has been grinding me down. I'm starting to lose the person I used to be. I used to be the best. I know. I used to be really talented and creative. And I know it's still in there, but I just need some guidance, maybe mentorship or perspective from someone who understands the struggle and how to move forward anyway. And I'm tired, but I'm still trying.

[Abby Phillip]

And, you know, that's why I'm calling.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I totally understand. Tr. I'm put you. I'm going to get your information. Eddie, please get TR's information. Write our number down and stuff. I'M going to call you later after the show, Tiara.

[Angela Yee]

All right.

[Caller Keisha]

Thank you.

[DJ Envy]

Hold on.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't hang up, okay?

[Caller Keisha]

I'm not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Get our number right now. Eddie.

[DJ Envy]

Hello? Who's this?

[Abby Phillip]

Hey, Emby.

[Caller Keisha]

It's Sharita from New Jersey.

[DJ Envy]

Sharita from Jersey? What part of Jersey?

[Abby Phillip]

I can't tell you all that every damn.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

I'm sorry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What you mean God damn? You on the run or something? You got one, Lawrence?

[DJ Envy]

Jersey's a bit.

[Caller Keisha]

But listen, I'm about to talk about your friend who. So I don't want him to know where I'm from.

[DJ Envy]

What friend?

[Abby Phillip]

Trash.

[Caller Keisha]

I'm sick of him. He needs to go for this year.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why? What trying to do?

[Caller Keisha]

Nah, I'm just tired of him. Every morning. He call every other day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Travis, a loyal Breakfast Club listener.

[Caller Keisha]

I am too, but. Darn. But listen. Get a new system for the new yacht.

[Abby Phillip]

Should not have to call 80DAG on time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Get a new what?

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

A system.

[DJ Envy]

Phone system. There's a lot of people that's calling, Mama. The only one I agree with is. Is Trav. I don't like when he start calling, talking about that cowboy stuff. I'm with you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love Trav. You act like it's a neutral.

[Caller Keisha]

Hey, Jess.

[Abby Phillip]

Hey, baby.

[Lani Smith]

What's up?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She act like.

[Caller Keisha]

Good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you, man.

[DJ Envy]

But salute to trap. Get it off your chest. 800-585-1051. If you need to vent, hit us up now. It's the Breakfast Club.

[Lani Smith]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lorna Roses as well. We got some special guests joining us this morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

We have Alani Smith here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good morning.

[Lani Smith]

Good morning. Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

We have Cesa Williams.

[Andrew Young]

Good morning.

[Cecil Williams]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

We have Frederica Newton. Good morning.

[Andrew Young]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

And we have Fred Hampton Jr. Good morning.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Morning.

[Angela Yee]

Morning.

[DJ Envy]

How y' all feeling this morning?

[Lani Smith]

Man, we blessed man. Black and blessed man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Blessed, black and highly favored.

[Lani Smith]

Yes, sir.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Lanny, why we all gathered here today with all these amazing people?

[Lani Smith]

Brother man, we. We had a New York Fashion Week show about. About a month ago, man. And we were blessed to have these individuals show up and walk on the Runway with us. Along with Dr. Bernice King and Ilyasa Shabazz, the daughters of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. And the response to it, the way that black people have responded to seeing these people on the Runway, knowing that this history wasn't that long ago, like they try to tell us that it was, has been powerful, man. So actively black. The company that I founded. We were built with the intention to uplift and reinvest back into the black community. And these incredible legends have been supportive of the brand. So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And when you. I want y' all to know, man, Cecil Williams, right. Y' all know this legendary picture right here.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Of the brother drinking out of the. The whites only water fountain. I always wanted to ask you, Mr. Williams, was it a spontaneous act of rebellion or something, Something you planned to do as a statement?

[Cecil Williams]

It was a little bit of both. I was thirsty. But also it was the middle of the sunset of the summer, you know, as evident to the Mike Sh T shirt.

[Andrew Young]

But.

[Cecil Williams]

But also, this was not the first time I did this. There were many other times that I felt I wanted to get a little close. Really. I was not satisfied with living in the status quo and segregation. So this was something that I had done many times and my mother warned me not to do it anymore, but I did it again. And this time it was photographed.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did you feel fear in that moment or was your faith stronger than your fear?

[Cecil Williams]

None whatsoever. This is about 15, 20 miles from Orangeburg and on Highway 21 and coming back from an assignment for Jet magazine. But I never sent this picture to Jet. It was something that I held in the family and I knew I would get chewed out had I, you know, given it to my mother and father to see. So I hid it from them and never sent it to JET either.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow. How'd they get it?

[Cecil Williams]

Maybe three or four years later, I showed it to them, you know, conversation one Sunday afternoon during a dinner. It kind of came out and then.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got chewed out.

[Andrew Young]

Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What did that single act teach you about the power of defiance in the face of injustice?

[Cecil Williams]

Well, living in South Carolina, being a child of segregation, it was something that we encountered all day long from birth to death. We in South Carolina during that period of time felt again, we were treated as subclass human beings. Not being able to go to a store and go into a restroom or go or drink, get a drink of water out of a fountain or having to go to a side window or going to a movie theater and having to sit in a separate place or not at all. So. But again, one thing that I would like to. This may be out of characteristic of many Southerners, there were many good white people at the time as well. You can't just put a blanket statement against that. All people treated this. There were many good hearted white people at the time and they were friends of my family and they helped support our family. So but it was some people in South Carolina, again, who lived by, treated us as a status quo, not being able to do this or that.

[DJ Envy]

So crazy to think about it. Like, you know, when you have these conversations, we're really not that far removed from that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, he's right here.

[Andrew Young]

That's what I'm saying.

[DJ Envy]

Like, you don't, you don't really think about it. Like you said earlier, like, we're not far removed from racism. And even the stories that my dad tells me, I'm like, this is crazy. This is what, 50 years ago, 60.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Years ago, I got one of my aunts, she said, I don't know nothing about no, I don't know nothing about no integration.

[Lani Smith]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because all she knew was segregated schools.

[Lani Smith]

You know, growing up, we had Ruby Bridges walk the Runway as well. And it was a powerful moment because everybody remembers that picture. Six year old little girl being escorted into school by federal marshals. And Ruby just turned 71. But you know, black don't crack. So she looks 45 and she walks out on the Runway. It made it real to people like that same little girl in that black and white photo is walking right here in front of me. So that's, that's the power of having, having these individuals here with me showing, you know, how close we are to everything that we still fighting to this day.

[DJ Envy]

Do y' all hate. I'm sorry, do y' all hate white people?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

God damn. All right, what the hell?

[DJ Envy]

Now I'm gonna tell you why. When I talk to my dad, my dad has a feeling towards white people, right? And I always joke and I laugh about it, but then when he tells me his history of him being in the military, and you know, they in the same barracks, but then when they go get some food, it's white only. And his people in the barracks, they go get food and he can't. He talks about the water fountain and the bathroom and all this other stuff and why he looks at white people the way that he does. I understand it. So that's why I ask you the same.

[Cecil Williams]

Well, it's brought to the forefront by Lana Smith and again, the fashion show. In fact, he labeled a fashion show. This is not a fashion show. Pictures like this are just evidence of a time and period we lived in America that obscenely in today's society. Some people want to bring it back, but it's long gone. But people like me who experienced this and people that were on this show that was put together by this amazing brother who has brought forth this apparel that again, has Crisscross across America and being put into the hands of today's generation. T shirts and other things that he makes, we're not going to stand for. Again, resegregating America is going to be something that is long gone. And to answer your question, there are, again, many, many good white people. And again, it's a myth, I think, that all white people are bad. Of course.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think growing up in South Carolina was such a mind, because to your point, I grew up around a lot of good white people, but then we were also aware of the white people who treated us like status quo, like there's certain places you knew you weren't supposed to go. But then I also had my white friend and Thomas and his family who lived right by me. So it was a class thing. So it's just. It's just. I don't know, South Carolina different.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

But tag team with you first. I'm Chairman Fred Hampton Jr. I'm honored to be here again. Clinton, salute to this brother and his wife, his team, you know what I'm saying? Because everything's political, including fashion, to get this pill and the applesauce. For these type of discussions, it's revolutionary. It's a misnomer about, like, it's motivated. How your moves. How we move is a hatred for someone else. Commandante Ernesto Che Guevara said, you know, a revolutionary, no matter how preposterous it may sound, is guided by the most sincere sentiments of love. And I'm not saying this was an abstract sort of way, but talking about the work of such organizations, the Black Panther Party, the motivation for getting up with the first free breakfast programs, free busing programs, survival programs, was not directed out of hatred for anyone, you know what I'm saying? But again, motivated for love for people. But let me say this, though. I think all black people should get, like, a mass Nobel Peace Prize. All of us, you know what I'm saying? The fact that we ain't just on mass snapped out, you know what I'm saying? It's ironic that we ain't motivated out of hatred. But again. And sometimes, even though it's a reactionary response, it's kind of justified. But again, for the record, it's a motivated love for the people.

[Abby Phillip]

I'd like to echo if I could. Hi, I'm Frederica, and Huey Newton was my husband. And what came to mind when you even asked that question was a quote from Huey that said, what motivates people is not hatred, but it's love for other people. So my mother was white. And she introduced me to Huey because she was doing work with the Black Panther Party, and she was the only one that they trusted to do the real estate work. So I did not grow up hating anyone. But what I do hate is white supremacy.

[Angela Yee]

You all know this time of year is my recess season. New energy, new plans, new ways to grow my brand. And if you're trying to start 2026 ahead of the game, like, really ahead, now is the time to get moving. For me, Shopify has been the platform that keeps my whole merch business tight. As a creator, as a businesswoman, I need my tools to work hard. And Shopify is like having a chief of staff, a personal assistant, and a co founder all in one. And look, I always tell other women building their own brands, especially small, independent black creators, don't overcomplicate it. Whether you're running a side hustle or you're trying to run a full storefront selling in your community or around the world, Shopify takes the guesswork out of everything. Shopify also, like, my favorite thing about it is they teach you as you grow, you can look up anything, get information on anything, and it's simple. They give you, like, easy one, two, three steps. I used to juggle 10 different logins and apps. Now one platform I manage my store, sell online orders, sell on social, even tag products right from my phone, wherever I am. And Shopify Sidekick. Listen, you keep hearing all about AI. Let me tell y', all, this AI is a lifesaver. It gives me reports, content, ideas, helps me edit images. It's literally like having a smart assistant in my back pocket guiding me to my next move. So let's be real. It's time to stop thinking and start doing. And there is no better way to do that than Shopify. Use our link shopify.comb e-n now to start getting serious about building your future.

[Podcast Narrator]

You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?

[Abby Phillip]

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

[Abby Phillip]

What?

[Podcast Narrator]

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

[Andrew Young]

Okay, I don't think that's true.

[Podcast Narrator]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a Congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Abby Phillip]

And the impact on black community.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Abby Phillip]

I actually hate that and the impacts of it and the impact that it's had on us. So, again, as my brother said so eloquently, as he always does. As he always does is that the Black Panther Party service was out of love, out of love for black people, out of love for oppressed people. And it wasn't guided by hate. So it's impossible for me to hate anybody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Lani, why was it important to have these historical black figures walk in the actively black fashion show?

[Lani Smith]

Yeah. So 1. The tagline for actively black is there's greatness in our DNA. And very intentional about that, because I think over the centuries of oppression, subconsciously, our people have accepted. I won't say accepted. Sometimes it seeps into our subconscious that we are less than, not as good as. This is what has been told to us. This is what has been preached to us for centuries. I'm trying to rewrite that narrative. I'm trying to deprogram and reprogram my own people to understand that there's greatness in our DNA. It's literal greatness in the DNA that walked on that Runway. When you see Malcolm and Martin's daughters walk on that Runway together, that DNA is something that has moved mountains, that has changed lives. You know what I'm saying? And that exists within all of us. So it was important for our people to see that, to know that we are more than just our trauma. You know what I mean? We have so much greatness inside of us, and if we start acting out of that greatness, that's how we can change things for our community.

[DJ Envy]

How difficult was it getting everybody in? And how long did it take?

[Lani Smith]

It was. It was stressful. 1. There was a white supremacist who was killed by another white man about a week before our show. And how about Charlie Kirk?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lani Smith]

And it sent some shockwaves through our plans because you're talking about children of people who were assassinated. Real political violence. And so I had to reconvince Eliasa Shabazz and Dr. King to still be a part of this show, there were some safety concerns. We had to bring in three extra teams of security just to make sure that they were secure, because the rhetoric was that there was gonna be payback, which never made sense to me because it was a white man that killed him. You know what I mean? But I think the reason why I was able to execute on that was the respect that I had paid to these individuals before. Everyone you see up here, Dr. King, Dr. Elias Shabazz, I went to them and asked them for permission to put their family members on this gear. I have licensing agreements with them so that when we sell apparel, the Black Panther Party Museum gets money. Fred Hampton, the Hampton House gets money. Cecil Williams Museum gets money. Right? The Shabazz center, the King center, actively black pays them when we sell this merch. And so you can go on any market, any weekend, and you'll see a lot of us selling this stuff, not realizing these people actually lost people in this struggle, and they weren't compensated. Right? And so I think I earned a level of respect with them that when I made that call and I asked them, can you walk on this Runway for me? They answered the call. And I feel so humbled. I mean, Dr. King, when she arrived, she gave me a signed speech from her father, and she prayed with me, and I broke down and cried, you know what I mean? Like, her schedule is crazy. For her to move around, her travel schedule to be there for this show is something I'm forever grateful for.

[DJ Envy]

Did y' all have any concerns, any security concerns at all?

[Lani Smith]

My man Kanan made sure we were good with the security. We weren't gonna let nobody even get close to touching. You know, this royalty.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Angela Yee]

What does it mean to be actively black?

[Lani Smith]

That's such a layered question. And there's a reason why I named it that you got to understand. When I was starting actively black, by the way, we'll celebrate five years this Black Friday. We launched on Black Friday 2020.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I had a lot of black people.

[Lani Smith]

Tell me, don't name the company actively black. I had black executives tell me, if you put black in this name, it will not be successful. And I realized that a lot of them were speaking from a place of fear, of working in corporate environments where they had to minimize who they were in their identity. And so there's nothing passive about what we have to do to uplift our people. Right? So it's a double entendre. I want our people to be more healthy. We do free mental health events. We do Physical activations where we're having people do yoga, sound bath, meditation. We're getting our people access to the things that they need so that we can keep moving. That's the only way the movement can keep going is if we're healthy enough to keep moving. Right. So it's a double entendre. We're activewear brand, you know, there's no reason why we shouldn't have our own Nike. That's what actively black is. When we build this multi billion dollar brand, it's not for my personal wealth. It's for us to uplift our people actively. Black dot com.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want a brother, Cecil Sister Frederica. Give him the the museum websites. Yeah. So people can donate.

[Cecil Williams]

Well, you can go to Cecil Williams Muse. I'm sorry. South Carolina Civil Rights Museum. But we also have a way of like PayPal and the email address there and several other ways, but we're easy to find. We're again in a college town of Orangeburg, South Carolina and we need your support. Even dollars. One dollar helps. So please support us.

[Andrew Young]

That's right.

[Lani Smith]

Got a few part gifts. I want to make sure you get this and then, and then. So Fred, you could close us out. Make sure you got that.

[Abby Phillip]

What's the, what's the museum on Instagram is at the Black Panther Party Museum and the Dr. Huey P. Newton foundation celebrating 30 years this year. Please come visit us in Oakland, California Black Panther Party Museum. We're open. I mean, and we're packed too. So this month celebrates the Black Panther Party History Month and we're full of celebrations. So please visit us there. Thank you.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Also I'm on. Thank y' all for having us here. Clinch Fit salute to our fellow panelists. Clinch Fit Salute to actively black December 4th International Revolutionary Day. Come to Chicago. Also the Hampton House.org we get our programs going to childhood home of chamber Fred Hampton in Maywood, Illinois. Again, Hampton House.org I want to close out this quote by Minister Dr. U P Newton. A pitch is worth a thousand words, but action is supreme.

[Andrew Young]

There you have it. Right.

[DJ Envy]

Well, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you guys.

[Abby Phillip]

Thank you so much.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Morning, everybody.

[DJ Envy]

It's DJ Envy Jess. Hilarious Charlemagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren laros is here as well. And we got a special guest in the building. Civil rights activist, politician, diplomat and pastor. Ladies and gentlemen, OG Andrew Young.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good morning, sir.

[Andrew Young]

Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How are you, brother?

[Andrew Young]

I'm really glad to be here with you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Young]

I'm long overdue, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who you telling?

[Andrew Young]

I'm Neat. I mean, I, I need to know where you are.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Young]

And I, I'm, I look at the book and be honest, a dialy. And I probably, you know, need to read that quickly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir. John Hope Brian is here as well. John O', Brien Good morning, sir.

[Abby Phillip]

Good morning.

[Caller Keisha]

Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Mr. Andrew Young has a new documentary out called the Dirty Work. Why was it important for you to tell this part of your story now?

[Andrew Young]

Well, I'm telling my story, and we see the glamour of the civil rights movement, and it was very glamorous, but every one or two you see on television, there were 500 to a thousand of us in the background doing the dirty work. And it's the way I got into it. I was actually up here in New York in 1957, 58. And Dr. King needed somebody to move with him to Atlanta. My wife was from Marion, Alabama, which was a little country town near Selma. And we saw the NBC documentary on John Lewis in a Nashville sit in story. We just bought a house out in Queens, and I was working up at the National Council of Churches. And when the documentary came on, my wife said, it's time for us to go home. I said, we are home. She said, no, this is New York. New York can't ever be my home. And I said, well, we just bought this house. We got a good job. She said, I'm going back to my mama in Alabama and I'm taking my children. And I said, well, what do you want me to do? She said, I want you to sell this house and find a job down South. It was the, the attraction of going back south that got me back in the movement. And it was in that transition. Martin Luther King had just been stabbed and he took in New York, in New York. He took a month off to go to India and was just coming back and planning to move from Montgomery to Atlanta. So I ended up getting pulled in to try to help him move. And that was, that was the dirty work. You, you. He needed to be in a bigger city than Montgomery, and. But he couldn't afford to live in Atlanta except with his parents. And so he was trying to raise funds. He never had a million dollars a year to work with the entire time we had the movement going. And so I was trying to help him raise some funds and went to my church up here, the United Church of Christ, and asked them. They founded a number of colleges, Howard and Fisk, Talladega, Tougaloo, all across the South. And so I said, you know, if you would let us use some of these properties or some of them, we could have a movement southwest in little or no time. And so I was sort of being a bridge between him making the transition to Montgomery and coming to Atlanta. I was then moved from Atlanta back to. I mean, from New York back to Atlanta. And the first job I got, he was not there. His secretary said once, she said, my wife's in Alabama. She said, you can't be hanging around here loose. He said, idle mine is the devil's workshop. A bunch of kids in Alabama, whole lot of devils. And she said, you need something to do? I said, well, anything I can do to help. And she gave me a great big egg crate patch would let us. And so she said, if you can help Dr. King with his mail, that's really, if you want to get to know a company, if somebody's coming in here and wants to get to know it, answer the mail or at least read the mail. I know what's, what's happening around. And so it gave me. I mean, I ended up with the bucket of mail, and that was sort of the dirty work.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

So Charlemagne, when he also, when he went to go get the job, when he went go down south, the staff didn't want him. Dr. King was out giving speeches and on the road. The staff didn't want him. He was smart, he was articulate. He was like, oh, all the seats are taken. We all. We good. They sent him packing. So he came back with a grant. The grant was self funded and it was for non violated education or something like that, but he funded his salary. So Dr. King said, okay, well, you can sit, you pay for it. You can sit right over here.

[Andrew Young]

Well paid for it, huh? We not only paid for it, I brought access to all of those schools.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Yes.

[Andrew Young]

Say from in North Carolina, Kings Mountain, Georgia. It was Atlanta University.

[Abby Phillip]

Wow.

[Andrew Young]

Alabama was Tougaloo, Talladega, Tallady and Alabama and Tougaloo and Mississippi.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

But the key point of that in Bastion was. Yeah, you won't take credit for this. He became the one person nobody could fire so he could speak truth to power.

[Andrew Young]

Yeah, but we didn't hire anybody.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Exactly. Because Dr. King didn't like conflict. If you let me finish my point.

[Andrew Young]

Yes, sir.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Dr. He didn't like conflict, so he was the conflict manager. So he was the one inside the staff. You had crazy people on the left and crazy folks sort of over here trying to do revolutions. Dr. King didn't want conflict, so he would expect Ambassador Young to knock heads.

[Podcast Narrator]

Dirty work.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That's it. And when he came in he wanted it to be resolved.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

And so he was a resolution manager inside the movement and outside the movement. Again, he doesn't take credit for it, but that, that really became one of his magic pieces was that he was independent, independent thinker just like you are. Just like all you guys are independent thinkers. Did I get that right?

[Andrew Young]

I guess. No. The thing is that, that I left Howard and I really. Well, I really up for three and a half years, see, but I somehow got a degree. And why you say you was. Because I was playing around, wasn't studying. I was trying to make the swimming team. And so I was trying to get on the girls. And I wasn't making any progress at all, you know, little from New Orleans. And I got along with people, but I was, I was trying to grow up. And when I got came left Howard and we stopped because you couldn't had no hotels that let you stay. We stopped at a Kings Mountain, North Carolina, where we had a church conference going on. And I decided to run up the mountain. Somewhere along there I kind of blacked out. I looked around and everything seemed perfect. You know, it was a perfect sky, perfect corn field. The green trees were sparkling. And I said, damn, everything here's got a purpose. And, but me, and I said, I cannot be put here on this earth with no purpose at all. And how do I find a purpose? Well, what I came to was if there's something that I think needs doing and nobody wants to do it, that becomes my purpose. So I was looking for stuff that needed to be done that nobody wanted to do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's such an interesting perspective when you talk about, you know, purpose too, John. Because in my mind, you know, I always thought the purpose was the liberation of black people. But you always just looking for something, a purpose within yourselves.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

So let's, let's, let's get some into some real talk. He's got survivor's guilt. He doesn't sleep. He's always working because he was on that balcony when he. When Dr. King was assassinated, the FBI told him the instructions for the shooter. If you miss the dreamer, kill the strategist. He's been this all this time. U.N. ambassador, first black U.N. ambassador in history. United States under Carter. First congressman since Reconstruction in the south. Brought the Atlantic, the Olympics to Atlanta, made Atlanta international City mayor, Presidential Medal of Freedom Awardee, French Foreign legion of Lordy. 150 honorary doctorate degrees. Brought a venture capital to Africa, liberated Zimbabwe, helped to get Mandela out of prison. But underneath all this, I'm here because my Friend was a shot, so he couldn't enjoy any of it. He'd give all his money away. He's been a servant his whole life, and he is. He's the closest thing we have to Nelson Mandela.

[Angela Yee]

Everybody plays a role in the movement is what I've always heard and learned. I feel like today when we talk about the boycotts, that. That we're trying to do actively, there's no real roles. We don't take one thing serious. We might take the other one serious because there's no. There's no structure. There's no how did you get people to fall in line, even though not everybody agreed with you?

[Andrew Young]

Everybody used to go to church back then, and radio, black radio was owned by white folks and. And they would play the music. But we'd have to slip in an announcement. There's going to be a certain meeting at, you know, such and such a Baptist church or such and such a Methodist church. And they finally even stopped them from doing announcements. So it went by word of mouth. We knew that every night we'd have a mass meeting at some church in some neighborhood, and people would get together about five o' clock and they sing these old songs that the young folk then came in and modified the freedom songs. Then the preachers would come in and preach a little bit and tell what's going on. But it was all around the church. And in the daytime, when the churches were not operating, the kids went to the schools. And the guys who were hanging out at the pool hall, we stopped by there. In fact, Dr. King was very good pool player, grew up in the ymca. And he could get everybody's attention because he would go into a pool hall and challenge the guy, said, can I take the winner? And after they saw he could run the table, they listened to him. And it was finding a way to get the people where they are. And they would really say, I'm ready to die for my people. It was a threat of death to almost every black man in the south until just recently. And it's coming back now. It's more organized now. The only person who would talk about it openly was Martin Luther King. And he said, now, you know, if we go messing with Birmingham, some of us ain't gonna come back. See, now he knew he was the one most likely targeted. But, I mean, he'd make a joke out of it. And he had a real good sense of humor. He said, john, it might be your turn, but it's gonna be one of the hardest things I ever do. But I'll try my best to preach your ass into heaven. And then he'd start preaching all the things that. That I pick on him about, say. And he would say things you. You didn't know he knew about you. And he'd ask God to forgive you and please let him into heaven. You know, I mean, he really. Yeah, he really turned your death into a comedy. It wasn't sadistic.

[DJ Envy]

Now, if you're just joining us, we're still talking with Andrew Young, Civil rights activist, politician, work very closely at Martin Luther King Jr. Charlemagne.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The fact that people knew that they could potentially die and still were willing to make that sacrifice is what I think is missing.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Yes.

[Andrew Young]

Now, you shouldn't be willing to make the sacrifice. You should be willing to take your time and assume that you can make the world right and you don't have to die. And we. We maybe have made it too difficult. Most of the people who died, we can remember the names, but they're literally millions. Like, Martin Luther King got stabbed by a black woman up here in Harlem. And that with a letter opener. And the letter opener was pressing on the aorta of his heart. And they said if he had sneezed, he probably would have died. And he talked about that all the time. But what he talked about, he said, but he got a letter. This girl said, I am 11 years old and it shouldn't matter, but I happen to be white. And I just want to thank you and thank God that you did not sneeze. And he would talk. He talked about that all the time because it represented the fact that there's still many, many good people. And you shouldn't believe that the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. See that? Right now. So even right now, right now, okay, the whole world is not going to hell in a handbasket.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

In the doc, you said after Martin Luther King Jr. Got shot, you knew there was no hope.

[Andrew Young]

I knew that it was going to be hard, but I really. My mama used to make me go to Sunday school. And one time they were talking about Elijah going to heaven in a flaming chariot. And I was about 9 years old, and I said, I don't believe that. They put me out of Sunday school, see, But I never forgot that. And that's what I thought when I saw Martin laying there. 1. I said, he probably didn't even hear that shot. The bullet palace travels faster than the speed of sound. So it hit him right in his. And severed his spinal cord. So he probably never heard it, and he probably never felt any pain. And he was dead instantly. And the thing that occurred to me then was, damn, my brother done gone to heaven in a flaming chariot. And all of the spirituals talk about, you know, steal away, steal away to Jesus. And I just felt that he'd gone home to the Lord. And he left you here and left me here. But I knew, and I still know, that there's hardly a day that I don't talk about him and learn or remember something that he said in a similar situation. And I passed that on to my children, but to all children. And it's one of the reasons why I'm really grateful to those folk, and John is one of them that put together money to tell this story, because all the books that were written by the movement are big, thick books, and. And we don't read, we don't keep still that long. So the mass media, radio and television is still our means of communication. And it's why you play such an important part in our community and why I had. I mean, I was in a meeting last night till 10 o', clock, went home, got me a few hours sleep, got up at 4:00 in the morning, got on a plane and came up back here because I wasn't coming to talk.

[Podcast Narrator]

You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?

[Abby Phillip]

Was this before he wrote his stories?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It must have been.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahlia is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

[Abby Phillip]

What?

[Podcast Narrator]

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

[Andrew Young]

Okay, I don't think that's true.

[Podcast Narrator]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman? And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did the Secret Agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrew Young]

To you all, you. You talk to more people than anybody I know. And when John said he's going to let you talk to his people, I said, thank you, Jesus.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, it's a privilege, man.

[Andrew Young]

Well, but it's a privilege for me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do you think we've honored Dr. King's legacy or just branded it?

[Andrew Young]

No, I don't think there's anybody. Anybody around that doesn't respect what he did and what he gave his life for. I think he is a sacred personality in our history. And. But everyone is like that. I mean, Crispus Attucks, I knew about him. He's the first black man, first man to die for this country in Massachusetts. And he's black. This country would not be what it is without us. And I think Martin Luther King represents the best of us, but he ain't the only one of us see that there were people around him, and only a half a dozen of us had been to college. I mean, most of us learn from the streets and they learn from our experiences, but the. I mean, Louis Armstrong grew up in my neighborhood in New Orleans. He didn't. I don't think anybody ever gave him trumpet lessons. He just picked up the thing and made it blow. And, And. And the thing that I'd like to remind people is that here's a man who grew up in one of the poorest neighborhoods in New Orleans, and he sings It's a Wonderful World. And there's Ray Charles, who's blind, and there's a big piano out in Albany, Georgia, where he grew up, and he sings America the Beautiful. But he doesn't start with the spacious skies. He starts with oh, beautiful. For heroes proved in liberating strife who more than self their country loved and mercy more than life. And we take the history of this country and the history of this planet and we turn it into a piece of music or a symbol of grace. If we do something, we do it with style, you know, and it's. And no matter what it is, we do it better.

[Abby Phillip]

What was the issue, the real issue, between Martin Luther King Jr. And Malcolm X?

[Andrew Young]

You know, there was no issue. The difference was that Martin Luther King learned in college, Malcolm X learned in jail. But Malcolm X read the dictionary and the Bible, say. And when Martin came back with the Nobel Prize, we were up there in Harlem and Armory. And when we came in the back door, who was standing next in the back door with Malcolm X? Two people, Malcolm X and Nelson Rockefeller. And Malcolm X said, I just wanted to thank you for all that you've done, and I want you to know that I am with you in anything you want me to do. But I think that it's probably better strategy if you and I don't Seem to be so close and said, that's why I'm not going to come in there with you in public.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

He wasn't trying to profile. Malcolm X was not trying.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Malcolm did. Used to disparage Malcolm, used to disparage Martin publicly.

[Andrew Young]

Sometimes, though, we call him Uncle Tom.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That was his brand.

[Andrew Young]

It wasn't. It wasn't Malcolm so much as it was that whole. Whole crowd around Elijah Muhammad now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But Martin was close to Elijah, too. It seemed like.

[Andrew Young]

I know well, because. Honorable because when we came to, if we went into town, like when we went to Chicago, we got all the big preachers together and, and got them to agree that we would be there with them and that they could tell us what they wanted us to do. Now, some didn't like it and some just didn't want anybody to have a profile but them. And we just went on around them.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

By the way, when he became mayor, just the point about people playing their roles, when he became mayor of Atlanta, the civil rights leaders, his friends, the second day he was mayor, they picketed him. So he went outside, he said, what are you guys doing? He said, well, you the mayor now. So we, you know, you got your job, we got ours. And he. And he accepted that. So Malcolm was playing his. Lane is playing his role publicly, but privately, he respected Dr. King.

[DJ Envy]

Now, if you're just joining us, we're still talking with Andrew Young. Civil rights activist, politician. Work very closely to Martin Luther King Jr. Charlemagne.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If the Dirty Work documentary could teach one lesson to this generation and the next generation of organizers, what would you want it to be?

[Andrew Young]

There is some dirty work in any struggle for freedom, but dirty work could be hard work. Dirty work could be thoughtful work, you know, whatever nobody else wants to do. Like, we didn't want to mess with money. And John decided that he was going to teach folk how to that. You can't be free while voting, but neither can you be free if you broke. And so teaching people how to manage money, how to save money, how to invest money, how to know the meaning of money to your salvation and survival, that's another issue altogether. But communications is an issue.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

And so don't be afraid of doing the dirty work. Embrace it. It is. It's noble work. It's not dirty work work.

[Andrew Young]

Yeah.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Is that right?

[Andrew Young]

That's. Not only is it noble work is. Is the kind of work that. That has to be done.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

So when. When Charlemagne was doing that internship way back when in that. In that first radio program and when people noticed you, that was the dirty work Absolutely. I'm sure you've done dirty work in your career. This you've always not been, both of you. And I'd always been sitting here prime time. You've had to hustle, you've had to do things and jobs nobody else wanted.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I still do the dirty work now, need be.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

And the work you're doing with, with mental health, the foundation, you're doing the stuff that nobody sees. The conversation that we have that at 2 in the morning about, about life in general, all that's the dirty work. And raising your children is the most honorable version. Raising your pain, paying school fees. Like we've got to be about the basics. We gotta get back to the basics and be about we and not just about me. That's really who he is. And I spent most of his interview trying to draw him out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This was good.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

You can see him.

[Andrew Young]

Yeah, this was good.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I loved it. John o', Brien, thank you for bringing this, this, this walking memorial, this iconic, this icon living. Mr. Andrew Young, thank you for coming, brother.

[Andrew Young]

Thank you for having me. That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And check out the dirty work on. What's on. It's on Peacock, right?

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

No, msnbc.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Msnbc, msnbc globally on MSNBC globally. Thank you, brother.

[Andrew Young]

Thank you and thank all of your audience.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, sir.

[Andrew Young]

This is college on the radio.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I like that.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That's a word.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Andrew Young]

If you didn't have money to go to college, listen in.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

That's right.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you. It's the Breakfast Club. Some donkey today just saw themselves.

[Andrew Young]

I've been watching each other.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Man was ready for.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Donkey old dunk the other day.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

What is it?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Say it again. Charlamagne.

[Andrew Young]

Yes, you are.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Everything that Charlamagne is saying is true.

[Cecil Williams]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Donkey today goes to a 63 year old Florida woman named Marina Gonaga. Now, what does your Uncle Charlotte always tell you about the great state of Florida? Say it with me. The craziest people in America come from the Bronx and all of Florida. And today is no exception. Even though I'm not gonna lie, okay? Marina did something that I always tell y' all to do. I always tell y' all to do your prison math. Okay? Do your jail math. Before you do something, before you jump out the window and commit a crime, always ask yourself, how much is this going to cost you? Okay? Everything from bond to lawyer and especially the time if you're sentenced, can you afford to do what it is you're about to do? Now, some people just move off emotion and they just act, okay? They just go. But some people Move off strategy. They ask questions. They plan things out. Those are the people that I respect. Those are the people that are truly dangerous. You know how in the comic book world we say Batman can beat anyone with prep time? That's how I feel about people who prep before they do a crime and calculate the prison math in their head. Okay, they calculate the jail math in their head. See, there is a part of me who respects what Marina did, even though she's dead wrong. Okay, well, damn it, Uncle Charlotte, the suspense is killing me. Will you tell me what she did on already? Well, according to an arrested affidavit obtained by law and crime, an officer was dispatched to an undisclosed location to respond to an argument between two people regarding stolen property. Okay, when the cops got there, Marina told them she came to the location to retrieve stolen shoes from a 72 year old unidentified woman. And at some point during the encounter, Marina allegedly turned to an officer and asked him in Spanish, how much would the bond be if I smacked her? See, this is Batman prepping. Once again, she turned to the officer and asked the officer, how much would the bond be if I smacked her? Now, it doesn't say what the officer responded, but Marina must have thought she could afford it because she walked up to the 73 year old and proceeded to smack him in the face. Okay, see, one thing about me, I respect everybody's choices. I may not agree with the choice you make, but respect when someone makes a calculated choice. Because when you choose to do something, then to me, you have also chosen the consequences of what comes with that choice. Marina did her dirt in front of the police. She even asked the officer, how much would the bond be if I smacked her? And then she went and handled her business. So that means she got a handle. These consequences, okay, the same way. Now, what I don't respect is that the person she smacked was 72. Not 72, not the same 72 it used to be. A lot of these 72 year olds got that elder script, they will put you on your ass, but that is still considered elderly. And Marina, you 63. Okay, even though you can get, you know, discounted meals at ihop, there is absolutely no reason for you to be smacking a 72 year old person in the face over no damn stolen shoes. See, I respect you being cold and calculated and making a choice, but over some damn shoes, I need to know what kind of shoes they were. Okay, the person was 72, so I know they ain't know no heat. Okay? If they weren't Michael Jordan's 1998 NBA Finals Air Jordan 13s or the Nike Air Yeezy 1 prototypes. I don't see the point of the smack, okay, where they didn't like back to the future joints. The flu game Jordans. And I'm talking about the ones Michael actually wore in the game. If not, I don't see what shoes could be worth it between the 63 year old and the 72 year old. Maybe it wasn't the shoes. Maybe it was the principal. All I'm saying is when you make decisions like this, at least let it be worth it. Especially when you're already out on bond for resisting arrest and battery on a law enforcement officer. Oh, I didn't tell y' all that part. Oh, damn. Yeah, Marina was out on bond for resisting arrest and battery on a law enforcement officer, but that didn't stop her from doing some prison math, doing some jail math in her head and calculating that smacking this 72 year old woman was absolutely worth it. Her bond was a thousand dollars, but you still have to factor in, you know, fighting the case. And something tells me that she cannot afford an attorney, but one will be provided for her. Please let Marina go, Naga. Get the sweet sound of the Hamiltons. Always do your jail math, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, Jail math is probably the easiest map to do nowadays. I know that math that my kids be bringing home is complicated, but when you're in a situation, all you got to do is just think about it.

[Andrew Young]

Is it worth it?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Can I afford to do what it is I'm about to do?

[DJ Envy]

I like the question. I like that question, though. How much would I get if I sl. You know, how much? But you on bond already. You got to calculate a little different. Yeah, but that's why she asked anyways.

[Abby Phillip]

She's like, ah, you know, because I'm already up and, you know, I'm already in the rear. You know what I'm saying?

[DJ Envy]

What's another couple stacks if I smack her?

[Abby Phillip]

Because, you know, she need to be smacked. Now, I don't respect her smacking an elderly.

[DJ Envy]

She's elderly, too, but just not on the same elderly level.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Yeah.

[Abby Phillip]

You know. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Level the elders.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, listen, she made a calculated decision. Calculated choice. I get it. It's all I ever asked. Task of y' all is to do your jail math, okay? If you feel like you can afford it handy, your business.

[DJ Envy]

And the discount that IHOP is 55. And plus, when you 55, that's when you get the discount.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, she's 63.

[DJ Envy]

She's 63. So she has those discounts I check just in case. All right, well, that. Thank you for that donkey today. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRose is here as well. And we have a special guest in the building. CNN anchor, senior political correspondent, and host of Newsnight with Abby Phillips, ladies and gentlemen. Abby.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Phillip, how are you?

[Abby Phillip]

I am good. I'm good. I'm hanging in there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

New book out, A Dream Deferred, Jesse Jackson and the Fight for Black Political Power. I'm from South Carolina, so I completely understand Jesse Jackson and you know, why he deserves all the praise. But why did you decide to write this book?

[Abby Phillip]

I think that there are a lot of people who have no idea that he ran for president honestly. And they don't. And if they know that he ran for president, they probably don't have any idea that he came second in the Democratic nomination in 1988. So he was the runner up. And before Obama, there was Jesse Jackson. And I think this chapter really is more important now than ever. Back in the 80s, I think people didn't have any way to know that what Jesse Jackson did really mattered in the long term. But it clearly mattered because had he not run, Obama wouldn't have been the nominee. Had he not run, I don't know that you would have like a Bernie Sanders or an AOC or even a Zoran Mamdani. I mean, these are people who are running on basically the same platform that Jesse Jackson ran on. And he really transformed Democratic politics. Not to mention registering millions of voters and putting in place a lot of the people that you know, people like Donna Brazile, Mignon Moore and so many others who are leaders in the Democratic Party, they are all there because of Jesse Jackson.

[Angela Yee]

In the back of your book, the praises that you say, like the first one talks about how he doesn't. How Jesse Jackson doesn't get credit for how influential in American politics as he was. What credit do you want people to give him after they read your book?

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah, I mean, I think that he transformed the structure of the Democratic Party that made it easier for outsiders to come in and disrupt the system. I think that's really what his original goal was when he was running for president. He was basically saying to the Democratic Party, you have to take us seriously as black voters, and not just black voters, but all kinds of other voters. He brought Arab Americans into the voting process. He insisted on women being on the ticket. That's why Democrats had a woman on the ticket in 1984, he insisted on Asian Americans being part of the political process. So what he was arguing for was a political system that actually takes everybody seriously. And I do think we're closer to that now than we were in the 80s. And he deserves a lot of credit for that. But I also think, you know, this is not about any kind of judgment about what you know or don't know about this particular chapter of history. But it's important to know that Jesse Jackson, like so many other of these leaders in our history, they had a lot of chapters, and this was a really significant chapter. I mean, he ran for president two times. He almost won the nomination. He, during one of these campaigns, he went to Syria and Cuba and brought prisoners of war back to the United States. I mean, he was doing a lot of things that if candidates were doing that today, we would be like, what? Is that real? But he doesn't get a lot of credit for it. I think a lot of it is because it was the first time that so many Americans had ever seen a black man try to do what he did. And I think it's important to remember how much of a, you know, just a barrier breaker he was at that time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was the single biggest myth or misconception you discovered in your reporting about either of those campaigns that you wanted to correct?

[Abby Phillip]

That he was only running as a black candidate for black voters? I think that's the biggest misconception. He was obviously very interested, motivated by the desire to make sure that black people utilize their power, not just cast a ballot, but had leverage to get changes on the platform, policy, things that mattered to their day to day lives. But he was also in Missouri with white farmers. He was also in San Francisco with Asian American activists. He had. That's why he called it the Rainbow Coalition. I think people remember him as being the candidate for black people, but he actually brought, as he said he would, a rainbow of people into the political process. And he does not get very much credit for how much appeal he had among white voters, especially when he ran the second time around. There's this great picture I have in the book of him at a rally with a bunch of white farmers in like, their overalls, and they all have paper bags on their heads with their eyes cut off because they're trying to hide their faces from the feds who were trying to basically foreclose on their farms. And there's Jesse Jackson in the background with all of these white people rallying alongside them. And that's, for me, an iconic photo that kind of shows that he had the same energy for our community as he did for all of those other people. And he was arguing to them, look, we have. The people who are trying to divide us along racial lines are trying to make you think that you don't have as much in common as a working class.

[Podcast Narrator]

You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?

[Abby Phillip]

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

[Podcast Narrator]

Our new podcast series, the Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

[Abby Phillip]

What?

[Podcast Narrator]

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

[Andrew Young]

Okay, I don't think that's true.

[Podcast Narrator]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman? And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did the Secret Agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Abby Phillip]

Black person, and that's a lie. And a lot of people diminish that part of his campaign because it's easier to sort of just put him in a box of, oh, he was just a black candidate for black people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wonder where he fell short, because, you know, you talk about a lot in the book about the unlikely coalition he. Yeah, it seems unlikely back then, but now it's like, the norm, right?

[Abby Phillip]

Exactly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

President Obama did or what he tried to do. I mean, all candidates try to do it. Where did he fall short back then, you think?

[Abby Phillip]

There were a lot of things that happened. I think some of them were his own mistakes, and I write about those in the book. I mean, he had a very big controversy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Jewish slur.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah. He used a slur against Jews in private, and then it became public, and he had a hard time figuring out how to deal with it and was slow in addressing it. And that really dogged him for the. Especially for the 1984 campaign. But it had an impact on 88, too. I think the other part of it was that he was a true outsider candidate. He had almost no establishment Support. You know, he was like what Bernie Sanders was in 19, in 2016, where nobody wanted to touch him among establishment Democrats. And so it was harder for him to build a real campaign that had the infrastructure that he needed to take advantage of the momentum when he did encounter momentum. But I would say the other thing is that he was completely discounted as a candidate. I mean, I went back and I read virtually everything that was written about Jesse Jackson in those two campaigns. And the way they talked about him as if he was a gadfly candidate, as if, you know, they really did not take him seriously in the media. And back in that time, there was no way to bypass the mainstream media. And I do think a lot of times, if he were running today, I mean, he was such a master of the press, of narrative, of really breaking through, but there was no Internet. And if he had had that, I think it would have been a different story because so much of his message just never got to people.

[DJ Envy]

All right, we have more with Abby Phillip when we come back.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Don't move.

[DJ Envy]

It's the Breakfast Club.

[Andrew Young]

Good morning.

[Abby Phillip]

It's so silly of me to act like I don't need you back.

[Andrew Young]

When.

[Abby Phillip]

All I can think about is that since I seen you last I know.

[Angela Yee]

I. I didn't have to walk away All I had to do was ask for space.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm telling you, be on your way When I told you to fall back so can you come pick up your clothes? I had them for. Leave me at the door. I know it's getting cold out, but it's not frozen, so come pick up your clothes.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren the Rose is here as well. We're still kicking it with CNN anchor and host of. Of News Night with Abby Phillip. Abby Phillips Charlemagne, One of the few.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Black women on cable news with their own show, especially you, because, you know, you have your own rainbow collision that you bring together every night.

[Abby Phillip]

Okay, that's one way of putting it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

With all of these different voices, do you feel like you get a lot of that, a lot of criticism?

[Abby Phillip]

Look, I don't want people to misunderstand this. I am not at all saying that I am at the caliber of people like Jesse or anybody else who's really putting their body on the line to make the world a better place.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

However, what you do is important.

[Abby Phillip]

But I play a role. Like, we all have a role, and this is mine and I. And. And in a way, yeah, people are very easy to be like. Well, she shouldn't give this person a platform, she shouldn't do this, she shouldn't do that. And I do think it's super easy to say that when you're just at home like watching the clips on your phone and this, I've been covering politics a long time. This is a time in our like political life where we have to really know what's going on and we have to know what everybody is saying on all sides of the issue. Because I don't think that ignorance has served anybody well. And particularly I get a lot of criticism from the left, from people who are like, why does she have MAGA people on the show? And it's like, well, you should know what they're saying.

[Andrew Young]

Yeah, I agree.

[Abby Phillip]

Because just so you know, half the country voted for Trump and for Trumpism and it's not helpful to be completely unaware of what is happening in those media ecosystems. So I personally think it's super important and I, I want the debate, like we need to have that debate. I want it to be right there out in the open. And I also think that it's important for people on both sides to practice being challenged because what we found on the show is that a lot of people are not used to being challenged. And when they, when they have somebody literally staring them in the face saying I disagree with you, for some people, they, they're like really taken aback. Like they don't really know how to deal with that, how to counter it, how to be quick, how to respond. And I think that is a really important skill in our politics that we can go back and forth on the issues and we can really hash it out. And I, I, you know, I'll take the criticism from all sides but I am very proud of what we do because I think that very few people are willing to do it. Very few people are willing to take the chance of, of, of even being criticized. And I don't mind it, like that's part of the job.

[Angela Yee]

What about, Cause I know with your show there's some moments that are like very hard hitting, right?

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah.

[Angela Yee]

What about when that becomes like too much for you? Because I've seen people step away from those debate style shows because it personally and it's triggering for them, especially for black women. How do you kind of, because you get back up and do it again.

[Abby Phillip]

The next day, like what is your, that's my responsibility. I unfortunately can't step away, but I understand when people do and I actually think that is totally good and healthy. I think it's Important to know your, your limits. And, and you know what? The good news about me not being able to step away is that it's my show and I can draw the lines when I need to draw the lines. And, and if you watch, as I know, I know you do every night, like you've seen the times when I've had to draw some lines at the table. And I don't do it that often because I, I want it to be not, not that common because when I do, it's like when your mom, you know, really tells you it's time to stop. That's kind of how I want it to be. Where it's not like that happens all the time. But you know that when I've reached my limit, it's the end. That's the limit. And I think that's, that I can, because I'm the host, I can draw those lines around the kind of conduct that I will accept at the table. And I have control over who shows up and who doesn't. And so for me, I, I take that on the weight of having to show up every single day. But I don't discount any person saying, I need to take a break, I need a moment, because I think that's actually healthy for all of us, that we should take care of ourselves and our own well being, even while we try to stay engaged. And I fully support that. And I also will say, Lauren, that I think there are definitely people who cross the line and that's part of the dynamic that is not within our control. And that's okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, I think I know one.

[Abby Phillip]

Well, look, I mean, the, the more, the, maybe the most famous one was Julian Michaels. You cannot tie imperialism and racism and.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Slavery to just one race, which is.

[Abby Phillip]

Pretty much what every single exhibit does. But why is this in the Smithsonian? So it's, look, it's, it's been completely captured. First of all, I don't, and it's totally. We don't, first of all, we don't have time to litigate. Of course we don't, because then, But.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I do the argument.

[Abby Phillip]

And if everything is racialized, just like you're trying to do to me now. You brought up slavery and you brought up, you did, you brought up the question whether or not slavery in the United States is about race. The answer is no idea. Yes, because that's not what I said. Slavery. Well, yeah, there was Jillian Michaels, but I, you know, I, you know, I'll say honestly, Jillian Michaels crossed the line in the sense that she said something that was kind of embarrassing. And we addressed it, but we never said to her, you're not welcome back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, and I don't. I don't think she crossed the line either. I just think she just wasn't informed.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah, that was. That's her. She made a decision not to want to come back. But, yeah, she. The thing about that was that she actually was talking about something that was important for us for people to be aware of was actually happening. Because right after she said what she said about slavery and how it's overemphasized at museums and then the Smithsonian, guess who said the same thing. The president. So if you had watched our show a couple of days before, you would have known what was coming. And it's not just that she said it, but the president said it, and then it. It actually became the policy that they're trying to implement at the White House. So I thought it was actually super important that that was put out there, because I think people were not aware of the extent to which slavery was the core thing that they were mad about in terms of how it was being represented in our museums. So she. Again, I think you're right. Like, I don't think that we. I just would describe that as crossing the line, but we addressed it as an important conversation that needed to be factually addressed. But there was another incident with a person who was on the show who said to another guest that. That a Muslim guest.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Oh.

[Abby Phillip]

That their pager would go off to medi. It was a reference to the Israeli. They'd, like, put bomb materials in pagers of the Houthi terrorists, and they went off.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

If you don't want to be called Nazis, stop doing.

[Cecil Williams]

And people. No.

[DJ Envy]

By me.

[Abby Phillip]

I never called you. I mean, I'm not sitting here saying I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm a supporter of the Palestinians. I'm used to it.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah. Well, I hope your beeper doesn't go off. The thing is, is that you should not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I should be killed.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

No, I did not.

[Abby Phillip]

No, I did not say that. That was an actual line that was crossed, because you wishing death on a guest on the show is completely unacceptable. And he was told, and I said publicly on the show he was not invited back. And so there are lines that are crossed. And I think people understand that. I'll draw them when they need to be drawn. But I also think that we want to have real conversations. Sometimes they get a little bit messy, and that's okay. But I also think disrespecting people in a way that is Inhumane or just there are some lines that we don't want to cross, and we'll draw those lines publicly and I'll let everybody know what's going on. But for the most part, we're not. We're trying to encourage speech, not trying to squelch it.

[Angela Yee]

If Jesse Jackson, right, was able to actually become president, president, get in office, just do things for people that he cared about, how would Barack Obama's presidency have been different? Kamala Harris just on this run, feeling like she has to dodge certain things and can't speak straight to black people. How would all of that be different if he had been able to get in office and do what he was doing before he was voted president or not voted for it?

[Abby Phillip]

That's really interesting. It's such an interesting question. I mean, I think one of the reasons that Vice President Harris and Barack Obama have had to present a certain way to the American public is the perception that. That a broad swath of the electorate, especially white voters, won't take a black candidate seriously unless they are very buttoned up, have the resume all lined up, the whole thing. And that's accurate, right? That like, we, we all understand that you kind of have to clear a higher bar in order to even be let in the door. And I do wonder if the. If the country had successfully elected a black president who was running on a progressive platform 30 years ago, whether they would have that same burden. And I don't know, maybe they would not have. You know, one of the things about Jesse Jackson is that his fluency in a wide range of issues, as somebody who never was elected to political office, who came out of the segregated south, who came out of a civil rights tradition. He was right up there with all the other candidates on the debate stage talking about foreign policy, talking about economic policy, giving speeches. I mean, I would talk to people who would say that they would give him, you know, like a 30 minute briefing and he would go in there and he would weave a whole speech around an issue. He could take information in and very quickly turn it around into something that was compelling to an audience. And so he had a kind of intellect that was not very respected at the time. And I do think that, you know, if. If the country had elected a black president, I think candidates today who are running who are like Kamala Harris or Barack Obama would not have to. Would not have to do so much to show white Americans in particular that they're qualified and that they have the basic, you know, qualifications to, to fit the job. I think that added burden is one of the reasons that it's hard then to turn around and say to those same candidates, well, you've got to be authentic. Because that same authenticity is what they get knocked for early on in their career. So it is. I'm not suggesting that it's easy. I think it is difficult. You have to be able to do both things. And actually, I would say Obama actually did both things pretty well. He had. He was incredibly credentialed, but he was incredibly authentic in the communities where he needed to be authentic in. And I do think that it is possible to do it, but it is absolutely a higher bar. And it's a higher bar still to this day, because we've only done it once, elected a black person to the highest office in the land. And so there's still a lot that has to be dealt with in terms of people's preconceived notions of what people of color can do at high levels of political office.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

Office.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

My last question, when. When Cameron took a sip of pink horsepower on your show, like, you just took a sip of that, right.

[Abby Phillip]

I knew you were gonna break this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And then when Cam said he was gonna get some cheeks after your interview, did you understand what was happening in that moment?

[Abby Phillip]

Is there something known in the industry about how Diddy treated his artists?

[Andrew Young]

So I'm gonna get some cheeks after this horsepower drink.

[Abby Phillip]

Like, I knew that we needed to end the interview, Obviously, I knew that we needed to end the interview. We were up against the end of the show, and we didn't. We had to get to a certain time. So, you know, I had to land that plane, and. And I did. And look, I mean, it was ridiculous, but as we know, that was the point.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So did the person who had to transcribe the show afterwards ask you what that meant? What do you mean you had to get some.

[Abby Phillip]

Well, we all were just like, what just happened? Yeah, you know, I mean, whatever. It's. I'm not gonna give this much more oxygen because I know that's part of the point. I know he was here a little while ago talking about it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He said he stole out after you did the show.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm sure he did.

[Angela Yee]

And he said before it wasn't. Like, it wasn't personally anything with you. He just felt like the network only hits him up for things that aren't about what he does outside of.

[Abby Phillip]

All I will say is that we were told by his team that he wanted to talk about this, not the other way around. So that's.

[Fred Hampton Jr.]

We.

[Abby Phillip]

Obviously, we don't book people about things they don't want to talk about. So we would never bring someone on the show and force them to talk about something that they didn't agree to talk about. So, I don't know. I mean, everybody. We have free will. We can do what we want. But like I said, I knew immediately. Actually, we knew pretty early on in the interview that we needed to get out as quickly as possible. I mean, it was from the. From the get go. You could read the room, you can read our energy. Yeah, I'm not new to this. Like, I know from the beginning when somebody is not interested in being in being interviewed. And so we knew we needed to get out, but it was just a timing thing, you know, when you're at the end of the show. And he was actually supposed to be on the show earlier, but was late. And so we. We were just figuring out how quickly we could hand off to Laura Coates at 11 o'. Clock.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That put you in a good class, though. Cam's got some really good interviews with news anchors from Anderson Cooper. He got some great moments.

[Angela Yee]

No dipset on the playlist no more, huh?

[Abby Phillip]

Absolutely. Listen. Absolutely not. We are not. That is not a class of.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I think he said, I want to be. He said Abby's was his favorite. I asked him which one was it? The Anderson Cooper 60 Minute Snitching Interview. The Bill O'Reilly when he was like, you mad? You mad? Oh, Abby film. He said yes, because he sold out of Pink Horsepower.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm. I'm happy for. Yes, I'm happy for him. But, you know, do you take stuff.

[Angela Yee]

Like that personally when it happens?

[Abby Phillip]

No, Abs. Absolutely not.

[Angela Yee]

Not personally, but just, like, why my show? I'm a black woman. I'm here on cnn. Why me?

[Abby Phillip]

No, I. You know what? Let me just. I'll just say this because I. I don't. I've never talked. I've actually never talked about this before, but when that happened, our booker who booked that interview was a young woman, and she was very upset about it. And I said to her afterwards, and I said to my entire team, I was like, this is not gonna be a reason that we play it safe. We are not going to take this as a moment to say, oh, this happened to us. We can't have people like that on our air again. I. I don't believe in that. I think that we are. We are out here trying to. To hear from people who are interesting and different, and maybe sometimes it goes left, but I'm not gonna this is. We're not gonna come down on you for booking this interview because we want to bring interesting people onto the show. And it was important to me to convey to them that we're not gonna go into a little ball and be like, oh, my God, this went viral and this was embarrassing. No, this too shall pass. Like, he had his moment. It was fine. I don't really care. Do I wish he didn't do that on the air?

[Caller Keisha]

Yeah, it was great.

[Abby Phillip]

But I'm not using it as an excuse to say that we're gonna play it safe on television because that's not what we're doing here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So you book a fantastic job, Fantastic booking. What's her name? Fantastic book. Okay. Did she book your show every night?

[Abby Phillip]

No, she, she, unfortunately she moved to a different city, so she's no longer with us. But she was over.

[Angela Yee]

No, but we.

[Abby Phillip]

Listen, we, I, I, I. It wasn't just her. I told her boss too. Yeah. And I was like, we are not, we are not going to treat this like some kind of major mistake, because it was not. It is television. And sometimes in television you have guests and you don't know what they're going to say. And the whole point of TV is not to be predictable and boring.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Abby Phillip]

So let's not do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I thoroughly enjoy your bookings. I thoroughly enjoy your show. Make sure y' all watch Abby Phillip on CNN News Night every night at 10. And then this table for five comes.

[Abby Phillip]

On at, at 10:00am on Saturday. And don't forget to buy the book.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes. A Dream Deferred. It's out right now. Jesse Jackson in the fight for black political power. It's Abby Phillip. It's the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

You got a positive note.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I do have a positive note, Mans. I want y' all to develop an attitude of gratitude and give thanks for everything that happens to you, knowing that every step forward is a step toward achieving something bigger and better than your current situation. Breakfast Club, bitches. Hollywood is buzzing. Award winning director Von Kovac has come out of retirement, promising to redefine the superhero genre with his remake of Wonder Man. At the center is Simon Williams, a man desperate to be a star but hiding a dangerous secret. He has superpowers outlawed in Hollywood with Trevor Slattery mentoring him. Hilarity and Hart collide in ways only Marvel could deliver. Starring Emmy award winner Yaya Abdul Mateen II and Oscar winner Ben Kingsley. This is Marvel like you've never seen it before. Don't miss Marvel. Television's Wonder man screaming January 27th at 6:00pm Pacific Time. Only on Disney.

[Angela Yee]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.