The Plot Thickens (ANTM documentary reactions among judges)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – "The Plot Thickens" (ANTM Documentary Reactions Among Judges)

Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Lauren LaRosa, on behalf of The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts
Key Topics: Reactions to Netflix’s ANTM “Reality Check” Documentary, Judge & Contestant Dynamics, Tyra Banks’ Accountability, Behind-the-Scenes Reflections

---

Overview

Theme/Purpose:
This episode dives deep into the fallout and revelations brought by Netflix's "Reality Check: Inside America's Next Top Model," focusing on candid reactions from the judges, new updates on beloved personalities, and the broader conversation about Tyra Banks' leadership and accountability. Lauren LaRosa unpacks judge interviews, gives personal reflections, and points out unresolved questions still haunting fans and former cast.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal & Show Update (03:01–07:52)

• Lauren does a personal check-in, reflecting on growth, learning, and how "keeping the main thing the main thing" has been central to her approach and business.
• She talks about the first podcast anniversary and the importance of focusing on core audience expectations before chasing secondary "extracurriculars" (like merch).
• Quote:

  "When I get in spaces where I'm the person that doesn't have the answer or where I'm the person that has to ask the question and just take the answer in. I don't know how to do that all the time." (03:26, Lauren LaRosa)

• Announces new merch arrival and hints at upcoming fashion projects and campaigns.

---

2. Reality Check: ANTM Documentary Breakdown (11:44–14:29)

• Recaps Netflix’s newly released "Reality Check" which covers the history, controversies, and current perspectives on America's Next Top Model (ANTM).
• Tyra Banks, Nigel Barker, Jay Manuel, Ms. J, and former contestants contributed interviews.
• Lauren notes Tyra had no creative control over this documentary, and some segments show Tyra in a "less than flattering" light hearkening back to major controversies.
• For in-depth breakdowns, including her interview with iconic contestant Takara Jones, Lauren directs listeners to previous podcast episodes.

---

3. Ms. J’s Health Update (14:29–17:43)

• Reveals, via Jay Manuel’s interview, that Ms. J (J. Alexander) has regained some mobility and is now able to walk again, following a period of being wheelchair-bound due to health challenges.
• Quote:

  "Jay is getting stronger every day. He does physical therapy every day. He can get out of that chair. That's what people don't know." (14:29, Jay Manuel)

• Lauren reflects emotionally on the difficulties of stroke recovery—drawing a parallel with her own mother’s struggles and emphasizing the unseen emotional toll.
• Quote:

  "It hurt my heart to just think about Ms. J being in this, like, negative space, so deep and so dark, because, you know, strokes come out of nowhere, then you're dealing with a physical disability because of it. Your whole life changes." (15:08, Lauren LaRosa)

• Notes Ms. J’s absence from social media after the documentary’s airing, wishing him continued recovery.

---

4. Tyra Banks & Judge Accountability: Documentary Reactions (21:33–27:29)

• Accountability Questions:

  • Lauren discusses the ongoing public debate over whether Tyra Banks has accepted full responsibility for problematic aspects of the show.
  • Nigel Barker clarifies Tyra could have made different choices:
    • Quote:

      "Regardless of whether someone asks for something or wants it again, acting as an adult, that's responsible. You also say no to certain things even when they want it." (22:06, Nigel Barker)

    • Jay Manuel confirms, "Tyra had no creative control in this series." (22:28)
  • Lauren adds context: Tyra often credits herself for positive changes, but distances herself from controversial incidents—like the infamous race-swapping photoshoot and the "shower blackout" incident now discussed as sexual assault.

• Intent vs. Execution:

  • Jay Manuel reflects on how the show’s original mission was lost over time:
    • Quote:

      "I absolutely believe the intention behind the show got lost... the real breaking point and the moment of divide was the race swapping photo shoot." (24:00, Jay Manuel) "How are you gonna support and, you know, and uplift women of color by painting white women black? Tyra swore to me I would not wear this. She goes, J, I would never do this to you...If she really wanted to protect me, she would have stood next to me and delivered that creative." (24:20, Jay Manuel)

  • Lauren expresses frustration at Tyra's lack of transparency and reluctance to clarify her role in controversial decisions:
    • Quote:

      "Tyra was acting like we was in, like, caveman times. Like, it was a different time, early 2000s. Tyra Banks was never standing next to somebody telling a white girl to put on blackface..." (25:07, Lauren LaRosa)

    • She calls out the shift from collective camaraderie to legal silence, hinting at unresolved personal rifts.

• The Tyra/Manuel Rift:

  • The breakdown in Tyra-Jay Manuel friendship is discussed. Jay notices Tyra's only unscripted moment in the documentary was when asked about him:
    • Quote:

      "What's very telling about her reaction is it's the first time I saw her in the doc respond without this prepared answer. You know, we got to see a bit of a break in the personality." (26:57, Jay Manuel)

---

5. Unanswered Questions and The Call for a Real Conversation (27:29–30:29)

• Lauren wants more answers: What changed with Tyra and Jay’s friendship? Will Tyra address the tough questions now?

• Hopes to host Tyra on her show or The Breakfast Club for an honest, unscripted interview—especially if Tyra is hinting at a 25th season return.

  • Quote:

    "Tyra Banks, if you're watching, first of all, hey, girl, I learned my smiles from you. Secondly, we need to sit down and have a conversation... it's not going to be an easy conversation, but there's a lot left and I think if Tyra is teasing a season 25 and a return of Top Model, there are some more conversations to be had and it's only fair that we do it." (29:08, Lauren LaRosa)

• Lauren mentions she reached out to Takara from ANTM, who’d yet to watch the documentary, seeking contestant perspectives as well.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On self-reflection and teachability:

  "I'm not the most teachable person because I've always had to be the person with the answer...I am very aware of myself." (03:26, Lauren LaRosa)

• On Ms. J's progress:

  "Jay is getting stronger every day. He does physical therapy every day. He can get out of that chair." (14:29, Jay Manuel)

• On Tyra's shifting accountability:

  "She made it very clear several times that things were above her. Like they came from execs and agents and all of these moments people are like, but you are Tyra Banks, right?" (22:31, Lauren LaRosa)

• On the racial controversy:

  "How are you gonna support and uplift women of color by painting white women black?" (24:20, Jay Manuel)

• On Tyra’s only unfiltered moment:

  "It's the first time I saw her in the doc respond without this prepared answer." (26:57, Jay Manuel)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Personal Reflections, Growth, and Merch: 03:01–07:52
• ANTM Documentary Introduction: 11:44–14:29
• Ms. J Health Update: 14:29–17:43
• Tyra Banks' Accountability and Reaction: 21:33–27:29
• The Jay Manuel–Tyra Banks Relationship: 24:00–27:29
• Closing Calls for the Real Conversation: 27:29–30:29

---

Tone and Host Style

Lauren speaks honestly, mixing humor, empathy, and directness (“baby, ain’t no way...Tyra knew what she was doing...”). She intertwines personal experience with pop culture critique and openly invites further dialogue on difficult questions, faithfully keeping the energy and perspective loyal listeners expect.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers an incisive, empathetic, and unsparing breakdown of the ongoing ANTM legacy conversation, bringing to light the complexities of celebrity accountability, industry pressures, and personal transformation within and beyond the iconic series. Lauren LaRosa, with characteristic openness, calls for transparency, healing, and a proper sit-down—promising more revelations and discussions as the story (and perhaps the show itself) continues.

Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Shopify Advertiser]

We all come into January with big resolutions, but February is usually when a lot of those dreams start to die. I'm partnering up with Shopify to help keep those dreams alive by making it easy to finally make them happen. If you've been thinking about starting a business, Shopify makes it simple. Whether you're just starting out or already running one, Shopify can handle anything you throw at it. A few products are a full catalog. It grows with you, it's easy to access, and that is what you want. When somebody is supporting your business, you want to make it as easy for them as possible, and Shopify does that. Don't let your dreams of being your own boss die with the rest of your 2026 goals. Let Shopify help you stay the course. It's time for you to invest in your own business, not someone else's. For a change, head on over to shopify.combreakfast club and see what it feels like to be the one in control of your future.

[Olympics Announcer]

It's an Olympics you'll never forget. Prime time in Milan. The moment.

[Sports Commentator]

Chloe Kim with the gold medal.

[Olympics Announcer]

Flex the stars Ilya Malinin out of the spectacle from beautiful northern Italy with very special guests every night of the Olympics. Experience the world's biggest show. Prime time in Milan tonight, 8, 7 Central on NBC. And Peacock.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Yes, it's me again.

[Sports Commentator]

We prepped. Prep.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. It's the time for empowerment. And I've got a message for you. You gotta think about sexual health no matter what. Where? With who.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

To all you lovers out there, ain't no judgment. This is your cue.

[Olympics Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's time to talk about pre special prophylaxis, a part of HIV prevention. Talk to a healthcare provider and visit carefortheculture.com to learn more.

[TurboTax Advertiser]

Let's keep it real. Tax season doesn't have to be a whole thing. Not when you're using Intuit TurboTax. With TurboTax Expert full service, you get matched with a real tax expert who handles your taxes for you, start to finish. And and you're not left guessing. You get real time updates right on your phone while your expert checks every deduction and credit to help you get that possible outcome. Just hand off your documents to your expert in app or in person and they'll keep it moving. Don't overthink it. Let TurboTax handle it. Visit TurboTax.com Real time updates are available in the iOS mobile app.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Let's get to it. I'm the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything and everybody exclusive.

[Sports Commentator]

You know, if you don't lie about that, right?

[Shopify Advertiser]

Lauren came in hot.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey, y'. All, what's up? It's Lauren LaRosa. And this is the latest with Lauren LaRosa. This is your daily dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news, and all of the conversations that shake the room, baby. Back on the grinding. Checking in behind the scenes of the grind. Because my lowriders, y', all, know that that is how we start the show off. Yeah, I mean, that is the conversation. I've just been really learning and utilizing this, you know, one step at a time thing, keeping the main thing the main thing and taking my time. I finally feel like I'm getting back to a point where it's like, even when things don't go perfect, even when I mess up, girl, like, what? This is just like, you got this. It's. It's. It's like a. It's always like a new girl at school mentality when you're in a new space or things are, you know, elevating. And that's a good, good, good. You know, just. I think nature to have. Because I. I want to say teachable. I want to. Actually, I don't need. Here's my thing about the whole teachable conversation and accountability. I am very aware of myself, so I'm very aware that, like, I'm not the most teachable person because I've always had to been the. Be the person with the answer. So when I get in spaces where I'm the person that doesn't have the answer or where I'm the person that has to ask the question and just take the answer in. I don't know how to. To do that all the time and how to take it either.

[Sports Commentator]

I.

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's. I take it too internal, and you know what I mean? And I just hang it on to myself and it impacts my day to day and my thinking about things, or I just don't want to hear it at all. And. And once I don't want to hear it, baby, it's nothing you can tell me. And I think that. I think that there's. There's some good in number one, being aware that I am not the most teachable person. I'm teachable, but I am. It's like I pick and choose when I want to be fully, like, I'm here, I'm a student, but I think it's. It's a really good place to be that I'm aware of. That. But I also think being a person who can, like, really, like, people talk about, like, giving zero, like, care to things and being nonchalant. I'm not nonchalant at all. It's either I'm very passionate, or I have to turn my brain off, turn my emotion off. And I think there is a good side to being able to do that. Like, I can disconnect from things in and see the, like, not the silver lining, but just see the intention in someone's actions or, you know, lack thereof, conversation in my own actions. I get to the solution quick. Like, it doesn't take me a long time to be like, okay, you should have listened to this because of that, or, in this moment, this happened because of that, or this person is treating you this way because of that. It's not you personally, but here's the bigger picture. I am really good at that, and I think you need that in business, and you need that in everything that I'm doing, especially because you have so many things going on. Like, I remember at one point, like, when the podcast was first dropping, and, oh, my God, y', all, this is the countdown to the year of the podcast. But when the podcast was first dropping, or our one year when the podcast was first dropping, I was like, we need merch. We need to be doing this. We need to be doing that. And I was really annoyed. I was pissed at myself. Cause I'm like, girl, how do you have this moment of, like, this new release happening? And, you know, like, there was, like, a level of, like, things were elevated. Like, people's ears and eyes were open. And I'm like, you have no product. You don't have your events planned for the year. And I was like, girl, listen, in order for you to do things the way you need to do them and the way that you need to show up and deliver at this point, you need to focus on the main reason why people are even here right now. And once you can kind of, you know, focus on that a bit and not get so deterred and throwed off by all of the noise and the things that will happen in the midst of that and because of that thing, then we can bring in the. All the. All the fun stuff, all the extracurriculars. And that's where I'm at right now. So we got a lot of the extracurriculars, you know, coming, but one step at a time. The merch is here. That's the first thing on the lineup. And I'm excited about the merch. We took a lot of time making, you know, better, perfecting the quality of the product. And I can't wait for y' all to see the fashion pieces, like the, the things that I'm going to like, you know, like the, the fit fits for real. Like I do, you know, design a bit. So I want to get into that as well, get back into campaigns and telling stories through like, you know, our visuals. It's a lot to come and I am so excited behind the scenes of the grind. So that's our check in. Now when I come back, it's time to get on into the latest.

[Olympics Announcer]

It's an Olympics you'll never forget. Prime time in Milan, the moments.

[Sports Commentator]

Chloe Kim with the gold medal.

[Olympics Announcer]

Flex the stars.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Ilya Malinin out of this world.

[Olympics Announcer]

The spectacle from beautiful northern Italy with very special guests every night of the Olympics. Experience the world's biggest show primetime in Milan tonight, 87 Central on NBC. And Peacock.

[Lauren LaRosa]

We all come into January with big plans and resolutions, but February is usually when a lot of those dreams start start slipping away. They think they're too far out of reach or too hard to pull off, especially when it comes to starting a business now. That's why Shopify matters. If you're finally ready to invest in yourself and start a business, Shopify makes it simple. And if you've already had a business, take it from us. Shopify can handle anything you throw its way. That's one of the reasons we shifted our stores over there. Whether you're selling a few products or a full catalog, Shopify grows with you. One login gives you access to everything. No password stress at all. You thousands of site templates mean no design skill needed and your site still looks uniquely yours, representing you and your brand. I designed my Shopify site in about an hour or two and y' all, it is top notch. The brown girl grinding store is amazing. They even have Shopify Sidekick AI that actually helps with marketing content and planning. You can sell on social media and even directly through ChatGPT. Starting a business is hard, but it is worth it. Trust me. I know. Don't let your dreams die in February. Let Shopify help you and thank yourself later for not giving up. It's time for you to start to invest in your business, not someone else's. For a change, head on over to shopify.com ben and see what it feels like to be the one in control of your future.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now Generated Assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewal renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Advertiser]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script with listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise, and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com all right y', all.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So let's hop into the latest. Now we talked on our last episode back very in depth about America's Next Top Model, the Reality Check documentary that went down on Netflix. It's called reality check Inside America's Next Top Model. It aired on February 16, a few days ago on Netflix exclusively in this documentary, you know, we Tyra Banks is there, speaking very candidly. Nigel barker, J. Manuel, Ms. Jennifer. They brought in some of the contestants from previous Top Model seasons. And I knew from watching it, there was no way that Tyra Banks had any creative control or production. Like, I. I just knew. I mean, she was really involved. But some of the things that were included, I'm like, I know that if she was eping this, Tyra would have to kind of like, you can't do a documentary about Tom of America's Next Top Model and not include some of the BS because she gets dragged for. It's like every year it goes viral again about how people feel about how Tyro Banks was and. And some of the claims that allegedly happened during the filming of America's exile model. Right. So you cannot include that. But some of this stuff, I'm like, she on here looking crazy. It's no way. She would have protected herself way better. But she showed up to, you know, defend her narrative. But there's a new interview that has come out and again, if you want to get my full breakdown of America's Next Top Models docu docu series, what I think of it, even our interview with Takara, who was one of the. I was gonna say one of the winners. Takara Jones, who was one of the cycle contestants on America's Next Top Model who should have won, definitely was a fan favorite but did not win. Please check out our previous episodes here at the Latest with Lauren LaRosa. It's all there. But there's a new interview that dropped. Entertainment Tonight did an exclusive sit down with Ms. J. I'm sorry, not with Ms. J. With J. Emanuel and Nigel, who was the famed photographer Nigel Barker on the show. And they're reacting to the documentary now. I found several parts of this interesting because I had so many follow up questions that no one responded to me on. But we getting some of the answers here. So number one, we found out that Ms. J is actually walking. Now, at the time of the documentary, Ms. J had told us that. That he'd been in a wheelchair. But now Jay Emanuel, the other J, because remember, it was the J's. The other J. Let us know that. Now Ms. J is walking. Let's take a look.

[Jay Manuel]

Jay is getting stronger every day. He does physical therapy every day. He can get out of that chair. That's what people don't know. At the time of the documentary, he couldn't.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

He can.

[Jay Manuel]

He can take steps and look if anyone is gonna walk again.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That probably was one of like the biggest. Like that. Everything in the documentary was like, oh, shoot. But some of it I'd seen before because I remember watching it in real Time, other stuff. It's like, okay, I expected them to go there, but to find out that Ms. J was going through the health conditions that they had mentioned, man, that it messed me up. Like, it's just. I think even up until this point of filming this podcast, like, we were just talking about it before we press record, it's just crazy because I've never met Ms. J in person. But the personality, the, you know, so full of life, the. The voguing, the walking, the posing, the, you know, like, the fabulousness of Ms. J. I just can't imagine the complete, like, the 360 of personality that happens or that that did happen when Ms. J was going through everything that happened. Because I know what it's like to go through a stroke journey. I didn't have a stroke myself. My mom had several strokes. She wasn't paralyzed to the point where she couldn't walk, but the right side of her body. To this day, she's still trying to fully do everything as she was before. And it's a challenge, but the real challenge is mentally. My mom and just how she thinks about things, how she approaches things, it's just different. And it's not different in a positive way all the time. So it hurt my heart to just think about Ms. J being in this, like, negative space, so deep and so dark, because, you know, strokes come out of nowhere, then you're dealing with a physical disability because of it. Your whole life changes. Like, everything stops and your whole life changes. I don't know who Ms. J had or did not have, you know, at the time that would have been able to, like, assist and all of that, but, like, even down to that, that matters so much. So it's just good to hear that Ms. J is doing better like it is. It's so good to hear that Ms. J is doing better. Physical therapy is helping, and I just pray that the next time we hear from Ms. J, it is a full praise report. Okay? Full pressure. Because Ms. J has not posted anything since the airing of this documentary. Like. Like, before the documentary actually aired. I did see Ms. J in some of the comments. I went to Ms. J's Instagram and I saw Ms. J and some of the comments, and, you know, the. What I was seeing from the responses. Like, as fans would comment, you would see Ms. J's Instagram say, are you gonna find out everything in the doc, honey? And, you know, so Ms. J or whoever's running that page, was active with the fans up until the point that the doc aired, and there's been nothing yet but I'm listen giving it to God that everything that we hear after that or after this documentary with Ms. J is a full on praise report because it is a battle trying to figure out life after something as you know as major as a major stroke.

[Olympics Announcer]

It's an Olympics you'll never forget. Prime Time in Milan the moments Chloe.

[Sports Commentator]

Kim with the gold medal Flex the.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Stars out of this world.

[Olympics Announcer]

The spectacle from beautiful northern Italy with very special guests every night of the Olympics experience the world's biggest show. Prime time in Milan tonight 87 Central on NBC and Peacock did you all.

[Sports Commentator]

Start January feeling motivated? New goals, Big dreams, Fresh energy? The next big business idea. Don't give up now. Starting a business can feel overwhelming, but Shopify makes it simple. If you're finally ready to invest in yourself, Shopify is the platform for you. Trust me, Shopify can handle anything you throw its way. That's one of the reasons we moved our stores from the black effect there. You know I'm busy bringing you the hottest reality news, honey. Get interviews. So I let Shopify handle my merch store for me. Whether you're selling a few products or full catalog, Shopify grows with you. They even have Shopify Sidekick AI that actually works, helping with marketing, forecasting and strategy. You can sell on social media and even directly through ChatGPT. Look, don't let your business dreams die in February. Let Shopify help you and spend the rest of the year grateful that you didn't give up. It's time for you to invest in your own business, not someone else's for a change. Head on over to shopify.com Ben that's B E N and see what it feels like to be the one in control of your future.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Advertiser]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2,200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com but then Jay Emanuel and.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Nigel Barker get into some other things now in this documentary. One of the biggest questions in conversation that came out of the documentary is Tyra Banks and her accountability or lack thereof. Now there are a lot of people who feel like Tyra took zero accountability for things, that it was very obvious she had control or say so over one of those things being just her ability to say no in certain aspects. And Nigel Barker made it very clear that Tyra Banks could have said no.

[Jay Manuel]

She was very involved in story.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

I'm just gonna say that I do think that regardless of whether someone asks for something or wants it again, acting as an adult, that's responsible. You also say no to certain things even when they want it, right? Mom and dad, we say no.

[Jay Manuel]

Tyra did she have any creative control in this docu series?

[Public Investing Advertiser]

None.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Zero.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Tyra had no. No creative control.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Now in this documentary, the reason why that was important because in this documentary, Tyra, she, you know, she made it very clear several times that things were above her. Like they came from execs and agents and and all of these moments people are like, but you are Tyra Banks, right? And yes, everybody has a boss. I get that. But a lot of what was pushed for on the show in a positive light, right? She took credibility for. She's like, I wanted to make sure that, like, I fought back when it came to the weight loss conversations. And. And it's like, how are you able to fight back and push back on things that make that you look good? But for everything, a lot of the things on this documentary, because not everything, there were some things where she was like, I messed up and if I could do it better today, I would. But there were some pretty big things, including, you know, the shower blacking out scene, which scene with Shandy, which is now being talked about as a sexual assault, where Tyra's like, ain't got nothing to do with me. Now, I do think that the big conversation here too, that you take away from the documentary is the way that they started, right? Tyra Banks, as you know, this breakout, black, iconic, legendary, history making, plus size supermodel is creating this show to kind of be like an escape and a fight back and almost like a revolution in the modeling industry. And then at some point they get away from that. And J. Manuel addresses that. Let's take a listen.

[Jay Manuel]

I absolutely believe the intention behind the show got lost. I think it's clear in the documentary. You know, for me, the real breaking point and the immediate moment of Divide was the race swapping photo shoot. I remember vividly that meeting where Tyra said, I want to do this and I want to do this to celebrate women of color. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, and I'll be honest with you in that moment, because people ask me all the time, why didn't you say something? Well, I was here to support her. This was her show. She had this reason that made no sense to me. How are you gonna support and, you know, and uplift women of color by painting white women black? Tyra swore to me I would not wear this. She goes, j, I would never do this to you. I'll say this, if she really wanted to protect me, she would have stood next to me and delivered that creative. The clip that has followed me to this day is me standing alone on camera. Chiron photoshoot, creative director. And people knew I was producing as well. We're switching your ethnicities. And so I wore that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I didn't think it was controversial, but then we put it out there and the world was like, are you crazy? Have you lost your mind? Baby? Ain't no way. Tyra Banks. I don't care what year in the world? Like, some of this stuff. Tyra was acting like we was in, like, caveman times. Like, it was a different time, early 2000s. Tyra Banks was never standing next to somebody telling a white girl to put on blackface and a black woman to turn into an Asian woman. And you brought the babies in, baby. Tyra knew what she was doing to get an effect out of the crowd, and she quickly protected herself in it. This was one of those moments that. This was another one of the moments where I was like, I'm side eyeing Sis right now because she knew exactly what she was doing. And here's the thing. If I'm J. Manuel, right, like, I've had to learn, regardless of who you're loyal to, you have to protect yourself. You do. Now, did J. Manuel feel like he was in a position enough to be able to do so instead of a job after? That's a conversation for a whole nother day. And I think we'll be able to explore that conversation once we get this sit down or whatever. It's going to be between J. Manuel and Tyra Banks. J. Manuel and Tyra Banks. Because obviously there's a conversation needed between The Jays and Ms. Tyra Banks, honey. Because the one time, and Jamie Will said this in his interview, the one time Tyra Banks broke character was literally the time when they asked her about their relationship. And here's what J. Manuel had to say. This is what I wanted to know, what his response to that moment was. Here's what he had to say. Can we talk now about what happened with you and Jay? I prefer I. Yeah, I should call Jay. I don't want to do. Yeah.

[Jay Manuel]

The first time I saw the documentary, honestly, her reaction, it made me chuckle. It made me chuckle. For me, it was no surprise because she has made a pointed effort to not speak about me in the press. What's very telling about her reaction is it's the first time I saw her in the doc respond without this prepared answer. You know, we got to see a bit of a break in the personality.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Tyra, I don't know what it is. It's like at one point I felt like in watching this docu series and even when I had heard rumors about, you know, them not being friends or whatever, I'm like, you know, it's always hard to do business with friends because eventually business becomes business and the friendship doesn't take the forefront. But the way that it was painted in this docu series, and that was the only thing that Tyra didn't really push back on and explore. I'm like, I need to know why Tyra Banks, like, what happened? This is the only thing you didn't see here and clear up, period. And you knew how things could potentially be painted because they've done previous interviews in years since Top Model talking about the relationship and things that did happen and didn't happen. Like, you could kind of get a gist. I knew where they were going to go with it. So I know Tyra had to know and she still decided not even to address it. I want to know why. I want to know what happened. Like, I want to know what was the switch for Tyra that went from, you're my bestie, you're my bestie. Y' all are helping me. I appreciate y'. All. We doing this together. We all in this together. I'm every woman to talk to my lawyers, talk to, talk to my reps. I'm disappointed. Good luck. Farewell. Like, what was the switch? There's a lot more that I, we still need to know. Takara, text me today and again, make sure you go and watch the car's interview that we did here at the latest with one of the rose of the podcast. But remember, this interview was done before the docu series and as of today, February 18, 2026. I talked to Takar earlier. It was really brief, though. Just a quick text because I text her yesterday, like, hey, girl with the eyes, cuz, like, I want to know, like, y' all are watching this. Y' all were there, what y' all feel, what's happening. But she hadn't even watched a docu series yet. But there's a lot of questions. There's a lot of girls we want to hear from. I also, I, I need to hear from Tyra. I need to hear from Tyra again and I need her to sit down with someone who's going to really ask her the questions. For real? For real. Actually, I think that's a joffer. I think, I think I know a person. I think I know a girl. So Tyra Banks, if you're watching, first of all, hey, girl, I learned my smiles from you. Secondly, we need to sit down and have a conversation. I think Tyra Banks should come here. The latest with Lauren Therose of the podcast, the Breakfast Club. Anywhere that will, I was gonna say anywhere that will have a real conversation, but I think, you know, we do it best. But I, I, there's so many questions I have that it's, it's not a, it's not going to be an easy conversation, but there's a lot left and I think if Tyra is teasing a season 25 and a return of Top Model, there are some more conversations to be had and it's only fair that we do it. That has been the latest with Lauren the Rosa. I'm your host Lauren LaRosa and my my Lowriders. I tell you guys all the time y' all could be anywhere with anybody having these conversations but y' all choose to be right here with me every single episode. I appreciate y'.

[Sports Commentator]

All.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Make sure you go grab your mer merch brown girlgrinding.com the hoodies, the T shirts are unisex. We have brown girl grinding dresses and more to come baby. We getting into all the things y' all see. You know whenever you see my visuals there are the Bronco grinding pillows. And don't worry, we got a lot coming for you in my Tyra Banks with you don't know what we have planned for cycle 20. More Bronco grinding merch. I don't know if I did it right but y' all know what I doing was trying to do. Patrick insert her clip here. See y' all in my next episode. This is Angela Yee from Angela Yee's Lip Service. One in four people in the US has been to a Planned Parenthood health center for life saving, life changing care. We're talking about birth control, annual exams, cancer screenings, STI testing and treatment and more. High quality expert judgment free care. And despite lawmakers efforts to shut them down, they're not going anywhere. They care continues at Planned Parenthood so that you can get the unbiased, high quality health care that you need. To learn more, visit I'm4pp.org.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

With Bali from iShares. You get access to both monthly income and growth potential in one simple ETF.

[Shopify Advertiser]

It's the best of both worlds.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Discover Bali iShares Large Cap Premium Income Active ETF iShares the market is yours. Visit www.ishares.com to view perspectives for investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses and other information that you should read and consider carefully before investing. Risks include principal loss and the use of derivatives, which could increase risks and volatility. Monthly income is not guaranteed. Prepared by BlackRock Investments LLC. It's football season and now you can get anything you need for game day delivered with Uber Eats.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Well, almost. Almost anything.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

You can't get a running back but baby back ribs. Yes, Uber Eats Official on demand food delivery partner of the NFL. This podcast is supported by FX's Love Story John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette the new limited series from executive producer Ryan Murphy. It explores the complex courtship of the iconic couple considered to be American royalty, whose love story captured the attention of the nation. Their fairy tale romance would unfold in front of the public eye, where their private love would also become a national obsession. FX's love story John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. Watch now on FX, Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.