Tim Ross joins Loren LoRosa & A Former Miss Delaware, Noa Mills in convo about church hurt!

Summary

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The Breakfast Club – Tim Ross, Loren LaRosa & Noa Mills on "Church Hurt" (October 27, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Breakfast Club, Lauren LaRosa hosts a profound conversation on "church hurt"—the emotional and mental toll experienced when individuals are hurt by people or structures within their faith communities. She’s joined by Tim Ross, bestselling author and host of “The Basement,” and Noa Mills, former Miss Delaware USA and mental health advocate. The discussion centers on how faith communities address trauma, the stigma around seeking help or therapy, leadership failures, and actionable ways churches can become more supportive environments for mental health.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is "Church Hurt" and Its Impact?

[03:28–05:20]

• Lauren sets the stage: Many are now openly discussing church hurt—the pain and disappointment caused by church leadership or members—that can push people away from faith communities.
• She highlights the intersection of church hurt and mental health, describing the challenge of environments where "God in prayer cures it all" is the prevailing mindset.

Notable Quote:

"Because church hurt is a real thing. The belief that we can just pray something away, whether it's mental health or, you know, trauma... those are real things."
— Lauren LaRosa [03:36]

Tim Ross: Separating Leadership Failures from Faith

[05:20–08:21]

• Tim Ross draws a powerful analogy:
  • "Did you stop eating at restaurants because of food poisoning?"
    He uses this to encourage listeners to separate bad experiences with individual churches or leaders from faith itself.
• Ross warns against idolizing spiritual leaders, which can distort faith and intensify the impact of their failings.
• He details the stages of processing spiritual betrayal and emphasizes the value of expressing the full spectrum of emotions, including anger.

Notable Quote:

"If your faith in God has been compromised by the person that you were following, then you... made an idol out of your leader."
— Tim Ross [05:54]

• He further shares candidly:

"It's been so soul crushing to hear some of the stuff that [leaders] have gotten into... I want to punch them in the neck... But the throat chop is enticing..."
— Tim Ross [06:51]
This frankness highlights the need for honest emotional processing within the church.

The Burden of Leadership: When Pastors Cause Hurt

[08:22–12:24]

• Lauren asks how leaders should handle disappointing their congregants.
• Tim relates a personal story (2019) where, in a moment of stress and sadness, he sprayed culture code words on the church walls—without approval. The act led to upset, and he recounts having to repent publicly.
• He stresses the importance of church leaders owning their mistakes and seeking forgiveness, modeling vulnerability for followers.

Notable Quote:

"Leaders have to take ownership for what they've done... In the same way that we make altar calls for everybody else, there has to be room at the altar for ourselves as well."
— Tim Ross [11:46]

Navigating Public Platforms & Personal Purpose

[16:08–19:31]

• Tim shares his journey from private faith to sudden, public ministry—suddenly being recognized globally, a development that brought new pressures.
• He explains how disconnecting from social media has helped preserve his peace and focus.
• He keeps his spiritual anchor in his original faith moment ("January 14, 1996"), and reminds listeners that fame is secondary to his faith's core purpose.

Notable Quotes:

"My dream was… to be the shadow hand behind all the preachers, and the Lord's like, no, I need you to be on the platforms."
— Tim Ross [16:56]

"If this was the last platform I was ever on, I'm Gucci. I don't ever need to be nowhere. Everything besides January 14, 1996, has been a nice little bonus."
— Tim Ross [18:24]

The Mental Weight of "Purpose" and Misunderstood Callings

[18:41–23:45]

• Lauren probes the mental heaviness that comes with pursuing purpose in the church, and the doubts around “am I doing enough?”
• Tim describes frustrations—especially when his unconventional methods clash with church tradition. He’s learned that his true audience is often outside the church walls.
• A breakthrough came when he realized he didn't need the validation of traditional churchgoers:

"I've been trying to convince the wrong people in the wrong region... I'm trying to reach your grandchild who don't listen to your sermons, but they listen to my clips."
— Tim Ross [21:18]

How Can Churches Take Mental Health Seriously? Practical Steps

[27:56–31:57]

• Lauren asks for actionable ideas to integrate mental health support into churches.
• Panelists urge faith communities to be proactive rather than waiting for external help—consider faith-based therapists, hotlines, and making resources visible on church websites.
• Churches should become "the epicenter for the solutions that we desire," not bystanders.

Notable Quotes:

"Every complaint you have is an auction for you to find the answer... If you don't like something, that means God gave it to you to go fix it, to go find it, to go be a solution."
— Panel Moderator [29:29]

"Out of the 29 and a half years that I've been a believer... I've been in therapy for 27. It's the reason why I haven't shot nobody."
— Tim Ross [31:27]

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Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• [05:20] Tim Ross’ food poisoning analogy: putting church hurt in relatable terms.
• [06:51] Tim’s raw admission about anger and frustration towards church leaders who fail.
• [10:04–11:46] Tim’s confession of his “implosion” and spray-painting incident, modeling leader accountability.
• [18:00–18:24] Tim anchors himself in his faith moment—reminding listeners not to make ministry about fame or platform.
• [21:18] Tim’s revelation about focusing on unchurched audiences over traditional churchgoers.
• [29:29] The call to action for churches: “Every complaint you have is an auction for you to find the answer.”
• [31:27] The honest, lighthearted reason Tim values therapy: "It's the reason why I haven't shot nobody."

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Actionable Insights for Churches

• Integrate faith-based mental health professionals (therapists, PCPs) into your church community.
• Feature mental health resources, hotlines, and professionals on church websites.
• Foster open, judgment-free dialogues about mental health and emotional struggles.
• Leaders must model accountability—publicly acknowledging mistakes and seeking healing together.
• Recognize that not all “hurt” can be prayed away; healing often requires professional support and honest processing of complex emotions.

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Tone & Takeaway

The conversation is candid, humorous, and empathetic, refusing to gloss over discomfort. Tim Ross brings vulnerability as both a leader and wounded party; Lauren LaRosa steers with curiosity and compassion; the panel delivers tough love and practical advice for churches ready to support true healing. For listeners, the episode demystifies church hurt and offers tangible hope—and responsibility—for change.

Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Mario Lopez]

Hey, what's up? It's Mario Lopez. Back to school is an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming, and kids may feel isolated, a vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect. Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor. Check in, ask questions, stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking. Learn the signs and how to [e-mail] blue campaign.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right, are you ready for another question?

[Katie Couric]

Go ahead, hit me, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and, of course, the government shutdown. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tim Ross]

You know what your customers are doing right this second? The exact same thing. You are listening to me, which, let's be honest, is kind of flattering. But my point Is, ads on iHeartRadio actually get heard in the car, at the gym, on the couch while people are walking their dogs. Who a good boy? Who's a good boy? You're a good boy.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

That's right, dude.

[Katie Couric]

You're a good.

[Tim Ross]

So why not make the next ad about you? Get started today. Call 844-844-IHEART or go to iheartadvertising.com that's 844-844-iheart or iheartadvertising.com hey, I'm Kalpen, and.

[Kal Penn]

On my new podcast, here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lilly Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics.

[Tim Ross]

Put another way, are you high?

[Kal Penn]

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, but my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tim Ross]

Let's get to it. Time to do it.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm the home girl that knows a little bit about everything, and everybody know.

[Tim Ross]

She gonna lie about that, right?

[Bernie Sanders]

Lauren came in hot.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey, y'.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

All.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What?

[Katie Couric]

What's up?

[Lauren LaRosa]

It's Lauren LaRosa. And this is the latest with Lauren LaRosa. This is your daily dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news and all of the conversations that are shaking the room. Now today you guys will be joining me in conversation that not only shakes the room, but it is shaking the churches, the houses and all of the places. Because church hurt is a real thing. The belief that we can just pray something away, whether it's mental health or, you know, trauma and things that we experience, those are real things and people are beginning to talk about it. So I had the pleasure of sitting down with Tim Ross, who is a best selling author and host of the popular podcast the Basement in Wide Open from Inglewood, California. A lot of you guys have probably seen his clips, heard his voice before because he gets the people going. So along with. So Tim Ross, along with Noah Mills, former Miss Delaware USA, 2023, who is a huge mental health advocate and helps to bring mental health pract and different purpose into corporate structures. Those two together sat down, we had a conversation, shout out to seeds of greatness, which is my church home. And it was a very honest conversation too about what that really looks like when you put mental health practices and you just start saying the words, I need help inside of church, especially in churches where people just don't think therapy or even needing help is a thing because God in prayer cures it all. Let's get on into the conversation. Let me know what you guys think about this. I'm Lauren LaRosa everywhere. I want to hear from you. Let's get on into it.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

Good morning.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Good morning. Hi, everybody.

[Katie Couric]

How you doing?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Well, I've never been up here, this part of church on stage, so this is a little different. But I'm excited for this conversation today, so. So I'm going to hop right on into it. Y' all feeling well? Good morning's been great. I want to talk a little bit about church hurt. When I got the like just the theme and kind of the background of this panel, that was the first thing I thought of. There's a lot of conversation happening right now because people are able to talk about it more about when people are disappointed by the church or people in the church and how that turns them away from the church. And that makes me think about mental health because people probably don't process it this way, but you're dealing with something mentally that, you know, turns you away. So Tim, I want to ask you as a, you know, a leader in the church and you Know you have your platform, your podcast. When you hear about church or you're speaking to people who are going through that, how do you make them understand that it is a person in a place and not something that you should carry every single church you go to?

[Tim Ross]

So when somebody first tells me about their church hurt, and if their reaction is to the extreme, like, I never want to go to church again, or, see, this is why I don't go to church, my retort is always, have you ever got food poisoning?

[Katie Couric]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

Did you stop eating at restaurants? Did you just become a meal prepper and just stay home and just, I only eat my own broccoli now because Mr. Childs made me throw up. Right.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

So.

[Tim Ross]

I'm not dismissing the hurt, but we have conflated what has happened to spiritual leaders with God. And what it lets me know is that you made an idol out of your leader. If your faith in God has been compromised by the person that you were following, then you were. You weren't following them as they followed Christ. You were following them and you deified them. And to deify, when we talk about dehumanize, dehumanization, we always talk about the degradation of an individual. But to degrade or deify is to dehumanize, to make somebody sub or to make somebody more than is dehumanized, either way. And so we have to calibrate the fact that these are human beings that we hope have their own connection with God in their private life. And if we've been hurt by that person, we are dealing with a mental health, a mental health aspect, which is grief. And we have to go through all stages of that grief, not just the disappointment and maybe the depression that comes with that, but also the sadness and the anger processing, like, I can't believe you did that to me. And a lot of people in church feel like they cannot express anger towards the person that has fallen because we're quick to rush people to forgiveness, not knowing that in the process, to forgive is to experience all the other emotions that come with it. So I have spiritual leaders that have disappointed me. And it's been so soul crushing to hear some of the stuff that they've gotten into or that has been exposed. And I want to punch them in the neck. That's how I feel. I'm not going to do it. But the throat chop is enticing because I'm like, how would you giving us this Bible every weekend? But it wasn't being received by you. Or, when did you stop eating your own food? That you was cooking for everybody else. So it's a process and people need safe spaces to be able to process their emotions. So that would be my answer.

[Bernie Sanders]

Thank you.

[Lauren LaRosa]

On the other side of that, right, because you've been a pastor before, you're leading so many different things, speaking to the leaders in the church. How do you handle being a person that disappoints someone in the church? What's your mental on that side of it? How do you get through that and how do you heal that for that person and often for yourself that you're able to continue to lead?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. So anytime I have disappointed my congregation, which I can give you, for instance, in 2019, that was like the worst year of me being a pastor. Okay. It was my fourth year pastoring. Eight people that I loved that year died. Five were very close. Three I had to eulogize. The youngest was a 15 year old girl of my friends. Their daughter died of a brain tumor and the church had doubled. I was sad. I'm not normally a very sad person, but that year took its toll. And I'm not an exploder. I'm an imploder. So I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna crash out. I'm gonna crash in. And the way my crash in looked, don't judge me. I wanted, like, words in our foyer, like, for the church and like, just the culture code of everything that we did in the church. Like, and I had asked our team to do it for two years. They hadn't done it. So my implosion looked like on a Saturday night going to Home Depot, grabbing six cans of spray paint and spray painting all the words that I ever wanted on the church walls.

[Lauren LaRosa]

By yourself.

[Tim Ross]

By myself, by myself. Unbeknownst to anybody else. And I had a guest speaker the next day. And I didn't go to church that day. I went to somebody else's church. And I felt great about what I did. I felt great. I felt great. A third of the church thought it was like the dopest thing. Like, oh, my goodness, look at all this. Two thirds of the church was, like, including my staff was like, somebody vandalized our building. And I was like, with our culture?

[Katie Couric]

No.

[Tim Ross]

Like, this is a dope vandal. Right? And it's me. And so Juliet was pissed and the elders were angry, and I was like, I don't see the big deal. And then I had my devotion. On Monday. I just happened to be reading Exodus about the way that he wanted the tabernacle to be built. And it said, according to my pattern. And the Holy Spirit said, tim, what you did to my house. So as soon as he, like, differentiated whose house it was, I was like, I'm sorry. He was like, what you did to my house is not according to my pattern. The next weekend was communion Sunday. So I had to get up in front of all three services and apologize and repent for what I had done now. And I had to just repent and shut up. And I started talking about, you know, what happened, saints. I just felt depressed. And I have been asking for these, for these words for two years.

[Kal Penn]

And my staff.

[Tim Ross]

No, no. Leaders have to take ownership for what they. What they've done. In the same way that we make altar calls for everybody else to come forward, there has to be room at the altar for ourselves as well. And if the congregation can come to the altar, leaders need to be able to step off the platform and come to the altar as well. The moment we make it for them and not us is the moment we wind up being duplicitous. And that's what leads us to living double lives.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey. How's it going today?

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many cases?

[Dan Morgan]

The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our clients.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

Are insurance companies, like, actually afraid of you guys?

[Dan Morgan]

We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large verdicts.

[Kal Penn]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.

[Katie Couric]

Wow.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

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[Mario Lopez]

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[Katie Couric]

Blue campaign on the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people across the quarter of his age.

[Bernie Sanders]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people. You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Bernie Sanders]

Does that sound like a radical idea, Judy? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, I get your point, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course the government shutdown, not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[Bernie Sanders]

To me, the failure of the Democratic Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search next question with Katie Couric. And listen now.

[Tim Ross]

I gave my life to Jesus. January 14th of 1996. I preached my first sermon February 25th of 1996. I did not want to do that. And then I kept being invited to speak and it's been that way for 29 and a half years. So as private as I am and like to be, my life is very public so how does one calibrate not only when, okay, you're on the major platforms, but also you don't even want to be there. You would rather not be known, right? Like, and so like, I, my dream was to be like this, the Christian version of Clarence Avon. I just wanted to be the shadow hand behind like all the preachers and the Lord's like, no, I need you to be on the platforms. And I'm like, ah. So the way that I handle and mitigate all the things is that, number one, I don't have any social media. I always had a love hate relationship on it. I was on it, I was off it, I hate it. So I'm off of it. And so I don't know what's going on until I meet somebody or talk to somebody, which is like very 90s. Like, I have no idea what's going on until somebody tells me. I'm like, what? I see my friend's kids and I never see them on social media, so I don't get to see them like, grow up on social media. I see my, oh my God, look how you grow. It's very 90s. I love it. I have my, I have my time with the Lord every single morning.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

And.

[Katie Couric]

I.

[Tim Ross]

I really have not forgotten January 14 and 96. Like, I'm legitimately not over the day that I gave my life to Jesus. So all of this is cool. But if this was the last platform I was ever on, I'm Gucci, I don't ever need to be nowhere. Everything besides January 14, 1996 has been a nice little bonus. It has not been a requirement. He's really been good to me and I'm very grateful his faithfulness in my life. And so that's my answer.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Thank you for that. A follow up question and both of you guys can answer this. But Sam, you said, you know, God doesn't give you like an intro meeting before. He's like, hey, this is what I want you to do. Can you talk a bit about when you guys, you know, I don't even know if you feel your purpose or you're just in the moment. And it's like, oh, I think that this is the thing when that hits, that's you feel good and there's kind of almost like a I feel complete feeling. But sometimes there are often feelings of like, am I doing enough? Am I doing it right? Am I impacting people? You know what I mean? And there's a mental weight that that comes with. Can you talk about that as well? Because I think in church, you hear a lot about faith and purpose and, you know, alignment, but people don't talk about the heaviness of alignment and purpose and, you know, walking a path.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. So this season, the last three years of my life have been, like, altogether, like, beautiful and really frustrating, right? So, like, three and a half years ago, I was known in some, like, Christian circles, and I had, like, 32,000 followers on Instagram. And I was like, that's a small city. That's amazing. I'm hyped, right? And then three and a half years later, it's like, are you the dude with the yellow glasses? And I'm stopped in airports in different countries. And I'm like, you watch it, too. Like, you got over here. And so that's still weird to me.

[Katie Couric]

And.

[Tim Ross]

Because I live in the Bible Belt and everything, all of my. The ministry that grew was in the Bible Belt. I felt this heaviness that I just got a breakthrough on last week in New York City. Like, this is brand new. Okay, So, y', all, last week, when I was in New York City, right, I was preaching at this church, minding my own business, right? And so what happened was, after the. I was preaching, I was talking to two people that lived in New York, and they were like, we might want to do a show with you. And I was like, that sounds scary. So they were like, you have no idea how effective you are and how many people that are unbelievers listen to you. And one of the dudes started crying, and he was like, like, we need you here. And I was like, joe, I think, what?

[Kal Penn]

What?

[Tim Ross]

Wait a minute. Like, it was like they were telling me how effective I have been. And I was like, I haven't felt like that because I've been fighting with people and trying to convince people that don't understand my assignment and don't want to know my assignment that this is my assignment. And then I was like, wait a minute. I've been trying to convince the wrong people in the wrong region. Like, I was like, oh, of course in the Bible Belt. You mad that I cuss? Cause you in the Bible Belt. But New York don't care. California don't care. Chicago don't care. Porn stars don't care. Entertainers don't care. NBA players don't care. All these different people don't care. So that good old Chaldean tongue doesn't belong to Texas. And I have been fighting this fight for the last three years with people that are already saved. I'm like, why? Do you even care? You're already going to heaven? I'm trying to reach your grandchild who don't listen to your sermons, but they listen to my clips. So I got free last week. It feels good. It feels good. But I have to acknowledge that free for 27 years, I was serving in the church, so I really wanted church people to get my assignment. And then I was like. And now I should have known. Cause PJ's my mentor. That's why I'm here. PJ. I've been at CE's. I am proud to say.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I've been.

[Tim Ross]

At CEE's for 24, 25 of these years, though, you know what I'm saying? And PJ didn't bring me in when I was a preacher. He brought me in when I was doing stuff. Standup comedy. He's seen every single version of me and has still supported me and prayed for me and encouraged me and sold into me. So don't nobody say nothing bad about Jerome Lewis Senior, cuz I will dock that off. All right, me too. All right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I love me introverts like you that just stand up, get things going, you.

[Katie Couric]

Know what I mean?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Starting up in here, I like to.

[Tim Ross]

Get it cracking and then leave.

[Katie Couric]

You know what?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm not mad at that. I like his style. I like his style. I don't know if you had anything you wanted to add. No.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

No, you didn't.

[Katie Couric]

Yes.

[Lauren LaRosa]

He ate that up, didn't he?

[Annabe Sofas Advertiser]

Mm.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey. How's it going today?

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many cases?

[Dan Morgan]

The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar, and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our clients.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

Are insurance companies, like, actually afraid of you guys?

[Dan Morgan]

We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large verdicts.

[Kal Penn]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 24 7, 365 wow.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

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[Mario Lopez]

Hey, what's up? It's Mario Lopez. Back to school is an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming and kids may feel isolated, a vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect. Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions, whether you're a parent, teacher, coach or neighbor. Check in, ask questions, stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking, learn the signs and how to Report, [e-mail] blue campaign.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

[Bernie Sanders]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people. You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Bernie Sanders]

Does that sound like a radical idea? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, I get your point, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown, not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[Bernie Sanders]

To me, the failure of the Democratic Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free IHEARTRADIO app Search Next question with Katie Couric. And listen. Now.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is a really straightforward question for both of you guys. How can churches better partner with programs, advocacy organizations, mental health organizations? Because this is new for a lot of people. Not all churches are progressive. So how can they be a partner and how do they start? Like is it one small step? Is it you jump right in, there's a mental health hotline. Like what should they do and how should they do it?

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

I think the beauty of it is that there's no one way to do it sincerely. One of the things that I really do love about this particular time in our lives is just that there's so the conversation is not taboo anymore. Like we could just do away with that. There sincerely has just been less and less and less of a stigma associated with the honesty that people do deal with things in their mind, medically, mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally and sincerely. You can put your heads together in a meeting to set up a production. We can put our heads together in a meeting to set up a how hotline for people that are struggling. We can put our heads together for everything else about who should tithe and who should go where and who should wear what and where the president can stand. We can talk to one another about how we want to facilitate conversations in the church. We are supposed to be the epicenter for the solutions that we desire. We're not supposed to be looking for them, waiting for someone to come do it. If you have questions about something, answer it first, pray to God, answer it and then become that solution. There's a lot of the things that I think would is my personal frustration in the church. It's just that there is a wait for an outside answer. You don't have to oh well so and so every complaint you have is an auction for you to find the answer. If you don't like something, that means God gave it to you to go fix it to go find it to go be a solution to that issue. Every single thing that we have problem with, we also have the understanding to provide solution to. So I think in churches as far as starting find a faith based PCP that you can bring into your church to talk to your people. Find a faith based therapist that you can bring into your church to talk to people. Have a, you have a list on your site for everybody's name and face. Put some therapists that you have in your church on the website. Put some hotlines on on the website. Figure out how to connect with your community leaders, your community Leaders should know what church you're at, how they need to connect with you, what they need to be doing. Because here's the thing, they only know what you tell them. I can't help you with funding this year when we're talking about where it needs to go for your members and for who they need to be connected with. If I don't know that there's a problem. So we can sit, we can communicate, we can, you know, figure out what it is that we need to do, but also make it our responsibility to do it.

[Tim Ross]

I just want to. I just want to please tap it up. I want to co sign. When I was a lead pastor, I did a series on mental health and we had at the end of every single service, we had information to two counseling centers that we knew the owners personally.

[Panel Moderator or Church Leader]

So.

[Tim Ross]

And I have been a client of one of them. So I was doing. Out of the 29 and a half years that I've been a believer in Jesus, I've been in therapy for 27. It's the reason why I haven't shot nobody. The reason why. I'm telling you, it's the reason why I haven't gone off on nobody. You know what I'm saying? It's the reason why I haven't turned full cat Williams on the church. I'm being real serious. If I ever went Katt Williams on the church, I'd scorch it. They would have to. They wouldn't have service tomorrow if I went off.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm Lauren LaRosa. This is the latest with Lauren LaRosa. At the end of the day, I tell you guys every episode, my low riders, y' all could be anywhere with anybody having a conversation about this, but y' all choose to be be right here with me. I appreciate y' all for that. I will catch you in my next episode.

[Mario Lopez]

Hey, what's up? It's Mario Lopez. Back to school is an exciting time, but it can also be overwhelming. And kids may feel isolated vulnerability that human traffickers can exploit. Human trafficking doesn't always look like what you expect. Everyday moments can become opportunities for someone with bad intentions. Whether you're a parent, teacher, coach, or neighbor, check in, ask questions, stay connected. Blue Campaign is a national awareness initiative that provides resources to help recognize suspected instances of human trafficking. Learn the signs and how to [e-mail] blue campaign.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of next question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Bernie Sanders]

All right. Are you ready for another question?

[Katie Couric]

Go ahead, hit me, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and, of course, the government shutdown. Listen to next question. With me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host (iHeartRadio Advertising)]

Wishing the holidays could come early. If you own or manage your business, they can. With help from iHeartRadio, people are already shopping for their loved ones and hunting for deals wherever they can find them, including right here. They're listening to the rad. They're listening to podcasts. They could be listening to you. Don't wait for everyone else to kick off the holidays. Get your best season of the year up and running today. Call 844-844-IHEART or visit iheartadvertising.com.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lilly Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics.

[Tim Ross]

Put another way, are you high?

[Kal Penn]

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, but my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iheart pod.