Life is a Cabaret w/Bebe Neuwirth! Plus, Tom Francis

Summary

The Broadway Show: Uncut – Episode Summary: "Life is a Cabaret w/Bebe Neuwirth! Plus, Tom Francis"

Release Date: January 9, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of "The Broadway Show: Uncut," host Tamsen Fadal delves deep into the world of Broadway with two captivating interviews. The episode features an in-depth conversation with the illustrious Bebe Neuwirth about the reimagined production of "Cabaret" at the Kit Kat Club, followed by an insightful interview with rising star Tom Francis, who shines in the new version of "Sunset Boulevard." This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and memorable moments from both interviews, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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Part 1: Celebrating "Cabaret" with Bebe Neuwirth

Staging in the Round: A Fresh Perspective

Bebe Neuwirth opens the discussion by reflecting on her long-standing relationship with "Cabaret." She reminisces about her early days in the original cast, highlighting the perpetual excitement and immersion she feels in the current production.

"I was immersed, and the whole rest of the world kind of fell away." [00:47]

Neuwirth and Phoebe Neuwirth delve into the innovative staging of "Cabaret" performed in the round, a setup where the audience surrounds the stage on all sides. This arrangement presents unique challenges and opportunities for performers, emphasizing exposure and engagement without any hiding spots.

"Nothing of the story or the character or the play or the relationships change. But... it's really kind of freeing in a way." [02:49]

Reconstructed Deconstruction: A New Take on a Classic

Phoebe Neuwirth discusses the transformative approach taken in this production, describing it as a "reconstructed deconstruction" of "Cabaret." This method involves stripping away preconceived notions and traditional elements to rebuild the narrative and characters afresh, while maintaining the integrity of the original story and music.

"They completely deconstructed the cabaret. Anything that you thought, any preconceptions, and then they reconstructed it." [05:23]

Character Deep Dive: Fraulein Schneider and Herr Schultz

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the nuanced portrayal of Fraulein Schneider by Phoebe Neuwirth. She explores the evolution of Schneider's relationship with Herr Schultz, adding layers of friendship and unexpected romance that resonate deeply with audiences, especially highlighting the portrayal of Schneider as a 65-year-old woman discovering new love.

"As an older person, it also for me resonated to be a 65-year old woman who says, oh, wait a minute, one of my best friends is actually... this is a different love that I am now feeling for him." [08:05]

Reflections on a Storied Career

Phoebe Neuwirth takes a moment to reflect on her illustrious Broadway career, sharing poignant memories and the surreal experience of revisiting past roles. She emphasizes the importance of being present and grateful for each performance, drawing a parallel between her past and present experiences.

"I am grateful every day, all day long." [12:04]

Mentorship and Guiding the Next Generation

The discussion shifts to the topic of mentorship in the theater community. Phoebe expresses her desire to mentor young actors, acknowledging the generational shifts and the challenges they face. She emphasizes her role as a coach rather than a traditional teacher, aiming to support without judgment.

"I'm trying not to judge because... the experience of the 28-year-old now is so deeply, vastly different from my experience." [17:00]

Conclusion of "Cabaret" Segment

Bebe Neuwirth wraps up the segment by lauding Phoebe's contributions to the arts and expressing her admiration for the ongoing evolution of "Cabaret." The conversation underscores the timelessness of Broadway and the continuous reinvention that keeps classic shows relevant and vibrant.

"It's an honor and a privilege... to present some truths to them." [20:09]

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Part 2: Spotlight on Tom Francis in "Sunset Boulevard"

Introduction to Tom Francis

Transitioning to the second interview, correspondent Paul Wontorek engages with Tom Francis, a promising young British actor starring in the newly reimagined "Sunset Boulevard." Tom shares his journey from a farming background to the bright lights of Broadway.

"It's kind of like the dream back home. Everyone always wants to be on Broadway." [21:03]

Character Exploration: Joe Gelas

Tom delves into the complexities of his character, Joe Gelas, portraying a man torn between disillusionment and newfound love. He discusses the emotional depth and the internal conflicts that define Joe's journey.

"He's a very, very complicated man. He's so disillusioned with everything, but then finds this beautiful woman and just falls in love." [22:06]

Innovative Production Elements

Discussing the unique production aspects, Tom describes the blend of live theater with cinematic techniques, including video sequences and dynamic staging that bring a fresh energy to "Sunset Boulevard." He highlights the collaborative and spontaneous nature of the rehearsals, emphasizing trust and adaptability.

"We definitely just did things on the fly. And the rehearsals... were pretty crazy." [23:27]

On-Stage Chemistry and Collaboration

Tom shares insights into his on-stage chemistry with co-star Nicole, highlighting their seamless collaboration and the supportive environment fostered during performances.

"She is like a sister to me now... she's the best scene partner you could ever wish for." [24:16]

Balancing Multiple Talents

Balancing his burgeoning acting career with his passion for music, Tom discusses his aspirations beyond Broadway, including interests in TV, film, and potentially directing. He expresses admiration for Jonathan Groff, aspiring to emulate his multifaceted career.

"I want to be Jonathan Groff." [30:06]

Navigating Challenges and Embracing the Moment

Tom candidly talks about the challenges of live performances, from technical glitches to maintaining focus amidst the adrenaline rush. He emphasizes the exhilaration and fulfillment derived from being part of a live theatrical experience.

"It's Kind of a fever dream every single night. So it's just a blur, like every single time." [25:18]

Conclusion of "Sunset Boulevard" Segment

As the interview wraps up, Tom reflects on the communal and respectful atmosphere backstage, steering clear of post-show parties to maintain the integrity of their serious performances. His dedication to the craft and the collective storytelling of Broadway shines through.

"The serious battles, we've got to keep them serious." [34:11]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of "The Broadway Show: Uncut" offers a profound look into the evolving landscape of Broadway through the experiences of seasoned veterans and emerging talents. Bebe and Phoebe Neuwirth's discussions illuminate the transformative power of reimagined classics, while Tom Francis's insights provide a fresh perspective on contemporary productions. Together, these conversations celebrate the enduring spirit of theater and the continuous pursuit of artistic excellence.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. "I am grateful every day, all day long." – Phoebe Neuwirth [12:04]
2. "It's kind of like the dream back home. Everyone always wants to be on Broadway." – Tom Francis [21:03]
3. "He's a very, very complicated man. He's so disillusioned with everything, but then finds this beautiful woman and just falls in love." – Tom Francis [22:06]
4. "They completely deconstructed the cabaret. Anything that you thought, any preconceptions, and then they reconstructed it." – Phoebe Neuwirth [05:23]
5. "I want to be Jonathan Groff." – Tom Francis [30:06]

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Conclusion

For listeners who haven't tuned into this episode, the discussions offer a rich tapestry of Broadway's past, present, and future. Whether you're a long-time theater enthusiast or new to the stage, the insights shared by Bebe Neuwirth, Phoebe Neuwirth, and Tom Francis provide a deeper appreciation of the art form's dynamic and ever-evolving nature.

Transcript

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Foreign.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Welcome to the Broadway show Uncut. I'm Tamsen Fadal. Two great interviews from two radically reimagined musicals on this latest episode. Coming up in just a few, Paula Toric's catching up with one of the stars of a wild new version of Sunset Boulevard, Tom Francis. But first, it's Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. I had a chance to chat with Phoebe Neuwirth.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Let's talk about Cabaret. And, you know, you have been there since the beginning and the original cast. I was there. One of the few. You know, there was like, two opening nights. I think I was there.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

One of those just kept opening, and I love it. Let's just celebrate this show and keep celebrating.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

What a celebration. I feel like the minute I walked in. The minute I walked in there, I for. I forgot where I was. I felt like I'd never been to that theater before, even though I've probably been there a hundred times, as I'm sure you have. And I. I was immersed, and the whole rest of the world kind of fell away.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a really close friend who was in Smokey Joe's Cafe. Brenda Braxton is a real, dear friend of mine, and she walked in and she was nominated for a Tony Award in that theater. And she had no idea where I was. Where she was. I said to her at the opening party, did you know? She goes, no idea.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

It was remarkable. I was so turned around. I'm like, I'm pretty sure. I don't know. I'll go to another floor and see what's going on.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It wants to disorient you. Say you are going to have a new experience. Forget everything that is that you just walked away from. Also forget any ideas and preconceptions you have about Cabaret. And this is. You are entering an entirely new experience. And the prologue, the beautiful prologue. Performers who are all throughout, living in these incredible worlds and creating worlds and performing so beautifully. And then we'll all meet down in the center around that wooden platform, that circle where a whole new world is going to exist. And you will be part of it and also an observer. And I think it's a brilliant, brilliant design and iteration.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I do, too. And I think the design of something like that, I was looking. I was like, how hard is that to be knowing you are fully exposed on all sides? Like, there's nothing. There's no. You know, sometimes it would be back up into a wall or a corner. You know, there's no way to do that. But I. But I was thinking about that as performers. Like how that feels, that. That adds a whole nother layer to you, to your performance, to how you think about your positioning of your. You know, I mean, you're all about body and positioning anyway.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

But it's interesting. Nothing of the story or the character or the play or the relationships change. But I've never played in the round before. I've done a pretty heavy three quarter, but I've never done a complete in the round. And it's really kind of freeing in a way. It is. Your entire. The entire world is in play. So if your back is. To some people, the back is still. It's still in play. It's still part of the story and the scene. And I don't know, it's also like, as you say, there is no place to hide.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

And there's not.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

But I kind of love that because what I love about the theater, as opposed to television or film, is like, you are. You're walking a tightrope and you're working with no net because there's. Nobody's going to cope.

[Paul Wontorek]

Cut.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Nobody's going to say, oh, we have to do this again. No, you're. You're off and you're going. So if you're working without a net in the theater, if you're in the round, there was. There was no net. There was no concept of a net.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Right, Right. I never thought of it like that.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

But you're right, you can't. Yeah. There's no place to hide. But it's. It's beautiful because it forces you to be even further endowed in the story and the relationships and the character. You are completely in it, even more than you thought you could be.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I think you feel that, though, as an audience member, like, I actually. That's what I think, because I was looking at it, I was thinking, like, I've seen different, you know, different shows, different cabaret shows, and I thought, wow, this one's so different because, like, I never took my eyes off of it. Like, there's no way to. You're not looking to see what's happening. Maybe you could peek and see something behind the curtain. It was just. You were living. You were living it. Obviously, the design of the. The theater, too.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It is. It's like a mandala. It is. That is the world.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

That's it.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

That is. That is the world. Yeah.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

When you.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It's a beautiful thing to play.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

It's really beautiful. And I don't know, that, to me, really stands out, you know, along with the fact that this is a different cabaret. And a different cabaret than we probably thought. We were going to go in to see if you are familiar with the other, you know, the other shows. The last time it was on Broadway. Talk a little bit about that and your character and, you know, and the changes around you. Actually more so.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It's very interesting because if you have seen Cabaret before or you're only familiar with the movie, which is based on the show, there are certain expectations and, you know, certain things about it or you feel certain things. This is. I feel like this is a reconstructed deconstruction. So they. They completely deconstructed the cabaret. Anything that you thought, any preconceptions, and then they reconstructed it. And in doing that, the story is intact, the music is intact, the relationships are intact, Everything is intact. But it's coming to it without having to. Without thinking about anything from before. So if I think about Frauleinschneider, I honor Lottie Lenya and all the beautiful actors who have played it before. But I come to it completely, and I was encouraged by Rebecca Frecknell to come to it completely with myself and don't think about anything or anyone else. I mean, she didn't say that, but that was. We all were given that you are here to create this cabaret without any preconceived notions. And so it's a celebration, you know, it becomes a celebration of the. Of the individual, which is what this production really does. Celebrates the individual, but then to an extra degree, because we are celebrating ourselves as individuals. So there's another meta layer to it. And when replacements come in, they're like, okay, well, here's what Eddie Redmayne did. So, Adam Lambert, you have to do that. No, it's not that. It's like Eddie created this space, but now, Adam, you create your MC within this world that has been created. It's very exciting challenge for all of us.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah. And to have that freedom to be able to do that, it totally makes sense. No, I know exactly what you're saying, because it didn't. I'll play it back. We'll edit it back for you. I think it makes a lot of sense because I feel like I got to actually know each one of those characters better than probably I have before. Well, it's a new way. It's a different.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Considering that character, a closeness.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah, that's exactly right. A new way to consider that character.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I mean, with. Because I can speak from my own character. Let's say that Fraulein Schneider has not had a crush on Herr Schultz since he lived there. Let's just say that they were really good friends and she likes him and he's a good guy and all of a sudden she sees him anew. Well, that's the story that I was interested and that's the story that we all became interested in telling. That Schulz has always. You'd have to ask Steven Scabell how he feels, but that. That's his. Schulz has been pursuing her. Schneider didn't even realize that she just likes this guy. And then one day you fall in love with your dear friend. And we thought that's a very interesting way. And I think that's an unusual way to play the Schneider Schulz relationship. And as an older person, it also for me resonated to be a 65 year old woman who says, oh, wait a minute, one of my best friends is actually, this is a different love that I am now feeling for him.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

And I think you feel that because I think you feel a more depth of that relationship too than maybe it would if these characters were a different age and a different, I mean, there's a beauty to it, you know, it's.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

A different story to tell of. These stories are valid. Any iteration is going to be a valid iteration. But we thought for this one, this is what, this is what we're drawn to playing. And when I looked at the script, I looked at all the words that she said in the way, and I thought, I think she just, he's just her friend.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I like how you build that though.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

She says, a pineapple from you. Wait a minute. It's you. Oh. Oh, my goodness. No wonder she blushes. It's like, oh, I didn't know that was gonna happen.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

It's wonderful. And I, you know, when you come out and come up and it's, it was a, you know, it was opening night, so there's like another palpable energy that, you know, on top of what you already have for a live performance. And it was just, it was very beautiful to see. For me anyway, because I've been a huge fan of yours for a long time as all those people sitting around me and so many who have watched you. When you look at a show like this, you've just been in so many incredibly beautiful shows. Chicago. When you look at some of these, very lucky. It's, well, very fortunate. Very, very talented. Very talented, Bebe. But there's other takeaway from each one of these. I mean, these are incredible performances and scripts and shows and music to, you know, to have through your life on Broadway.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Well, I mean, I'm trying to be in the moment. And then every once in a while I'll see a photograph from me and Victor Garber or something. And Dan Yankees go, oh, I did that. That was me. That's me in a blonde wig with Victor Garber cracking up on stage. Cause I love him so much. I did that. Wow. Or I listen to mein hair sometimes. And I go, I sang this number on Broadway in Fosse.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Do you forget that?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

And I go, oh, I did that. Lucky me. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's. I am now at an age where I'm looking back and it. And now I can go back decades and go, holy cow. I was directed by Michael Bennett in A Chorus Line in the role of Cassie. I mean, so that's pretty good. In the role of Sheila on Broadway, that's. I did that. And how do I. Because I feel so different now than I did when I was 21, when I was playing Sheila, of course. I go, how do I reckon it? So it's surreal.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

But imagine that. But you're still so appreciative of it in every moment. That's the difference.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I am grateful every day, all day long.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah, I love that. A lot of people don't. I mean, that's where your authenticity comes from and shines through. And that's what people, whether they know you personally or they don't, they feel, oh, thank you. It's the truth. How old are you when you are on Broadway?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

The first time, I think I was 21.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Oh, my goodness.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Well, my first Equity job was going out on the road with A Chorus Line when I was 19. And I came back and I played it, and then I played on Broadway. And I remember one of my last performances, about a week before I left was when the captive Americans came back from Iran. After the 444 days, sure. They came back and they came to a few Broadway shows and they came to see A Chorus Line, and Joe Papp and Michael Bennett made a curtain speech at the end of it. And of course, the audience stood and applauded these brave people and what they'd come back for. So that was. That's when I go, okay, when was that? That was 1981. So I was 22 when I left. So I was 21 when I was up.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

How incredible. When you go into a theater now.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

With the experience, looking back. I know, and I'm looking back, and I think that is what a gift to be present at that moment in history. And some of the Other moments of.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Are there other ones that stand. That are standouts? Like that one? I mean, that's a. That's a.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

That's.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

That's a big one. That's a pretty monumental one. I'm sure the. The recent one of coming back after the. The pandemic was also a, you know, incredible moments, but I don't know.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Yes. Playing in it. Playing in an Off Broadway house. I was doing Bedwetter off Broadway at the Atlantic Theater and looking out to a sea of audience who are all wearing masks and being so moved that the love of theater is so strong that we will come back and we'll do whatever we have to to be able to gather again at our tribal fire and tell stories and hear the stories and be that community. It's very, very moving.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Going into a theater now with the experience that you've had, the wisdom that you have. Do you look at the kids that are 21 going in there and going, like, I got you, or let me show you this, or, you know, you got. You know, because they look at you and you're like, I want to be you. That's. That's who they want to be.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It's interesting. There's a lot of things going on. Being in, you know, being 30, being 28 now is very different from being 28 when I was 28. So I. I look at them, and I relate. And also, I can't relate because of some stuff that they have to deal with that I didn't have to. And I had to deal with stuff that they don't have to deal with. And there is a shift in perspective. There's a shift in how people view work ethic. It's just different now. And I am really working very hard to understand what the differences are, what they come from, trying to see how I can, you know, if they want a mentor, I'm here and available. Sometimes they ask questions. A lot of times they don't. And I don't know if they don't want to, because it's a feeling of, no, really, I got this.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Or if it's. I wouldn't know what to ask. I mean. And then I think if I was doing a show when I was 28 and somebody, you know, if I was in a parallel situation, would I. Yeah, I don't know if I would, but if I didn't, it certainly wouldn't be because, oh, no, I got this.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Me neither. I was just gonna say, I think it would be more like, oh, gosh, I want to appear That I am at that same, you know, that I can, that I can. I deserve to be on the stage too and show up right for her. I think it would be more like, I think it's more of a respect than out of, I hope out of, you know, I really don't know.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I mean, there have been times when I have offered to be like, oh, you're doing this. I'll teach you that if you want to know or if, you know, if somebody wants to audition for film, I say, I could help you with that. And then I never get asked. I thought, oh, okay, you got this. I don't know, maybe they do. You know, who am I to say, oh, my help is invaluable. I don't know, maybe they get an.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

We won't put 1-800- call Bibi on the bottom of the screen, I promise you that.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

But I do, I really want to.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Be the mentor that.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Yeah, I'm trying not to judge because that, because ultimately the experience of the 28 year old now is so deeply, vastly different from my experience when I was 28. It is that I really, I really just can't judge it. And I'm just trying to, I'm just here, I'm doing my job every day I go to the theater and I try to make each show better than the one before. I try to make it the best show I can do. I'm here, you know, whatever you want, whatever need, I'll do my best.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

You're wonderful.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I mean, I get it. I want to sound like I get it.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I am.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

But really come to through me.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

No, you don't sound like that. I think it's.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I do also, I also, I also do like to teach. I really do like to not teach, but I like to coach.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

And I like to, to help.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

That's amazing though. That's.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I would like to direct one day. I do want to. I have done some coaching. I have done a little teaching. I'm not that great at it. If I frame it like I'm coaching.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Then I'm better then see, it feels better than teaching.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Well, I think I want to tell anybody.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I was just gonna say anybody that feels like they're in charge, you know, they know all that's different. Coaching is like, you know, here, let me see a guide. It's a guide.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

That's right. And the best teachers I've had are those who see what you're. What I'm doing and go, okay, let me bring that out. Let me see what's going on here?

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Yeah, they work from their strength.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I think you need some help here. How can I speak in a language that you'll understand to bring that part out?

[Bebe Neuwirth]

So, what. What would you like to direct?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I don't know. That's why I haven't directed yet, because I haven't seen the thing that.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

Is it the word? Is it the work you haven't seen yet? Is that what it is? I mean, would it be tv?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I guess I haven't. Yeah, I haven't read it yet. The thing. There's something that I want to. There's a project that I want to make happen that I want to adapt, and I'm very interested in working really closely on that. But I. But I know I need a director because I'm. I'm not really a director. I don't. I don't think in. I don't know, maybe I am.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

I have. I have a feeling if you had. If you had a little bit of time to do it, you did feel like you've been busy over the years.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Phoebe, I've worked with great directors, and I see what they do, and I go, yeah, that's. I don't.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

You know what's great?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

I know what's great, and I'm not it. I think that I can coach very well, but that thing of mounting an entire show and all of that, I don't think that that's really me, but.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

There might be another way to go about something like that with a bigger scale. Well, I can't wait to see it. I'll be your big cheerleader. Thank you so much. I don't want to be more, because. I know. But I really appreciate it. I appreciate your time and your talents and your, you know, everything that you've contributed to. To these spaces of art.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Thank you. Yeah, thanks.

[Bebe Neuwirth]

It's good to see you again. It's really.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

It's an honor. I do want to say it's an honor and a privilege, really, to be able to play this part in this show at this time and to be able to do something as an artist because I'm not really an activist. So how can I be an artist and contribute in some way that helps people to find their own truths for themselves? And if I can be in this show at this time and present some truths to them, that is a privilege that I'm grateful, deeply grateful for.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Now here's Paul Wontorek's interview with one of the stars of Sunset Boulevard, Tom Francis.

[Paul Wontorek]

Welcome to Broadway, Tom. What does Broadway mean to a Young British theater star like yourself.

[Tom Francis]

I mean, it's kind of like the dream back home. Everyone always wants to be on Broadway. It feels like an unattainable dream, and I can't really believe that it's happening. The American energy is just so infectious, especially around, like, a musical theater show. Yeah, it just feels like a big thing here, and everyone gives it a lot of energy.

[Paul Wontorek]

And Sunset Boulevard, did you know this show?

[Tom Francis]

No, I had. No. I knew a few of the songs. I kind of knew. As if we never Said Goodbye with One look and Sunset, because everyone kind of sings them at drama school, so I knew those, but I wasn't incredibly familiar with that or the film. And I told Jamie that in my audition, and he was just. He was just like, I don't want you watching or listening to anything. He was like, I want you to just come in on day one. He was like, have some note bashes from Alan Williams, our wonderful musical supervisor. And, yeah, just come in and be fresh to it.

[Paul Wontorek]

So who is Joe Gelas?

[Tom Francis]

He's a very, very complicated man. He's so disillusioned with everything, but then finds this beautiful woman and just falls in love. And he just is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Paul Wontorek]

Which beautiful woman are you speaking of?

[Tom Francis]

Both of them. And, yeah, he just finds himself in an incredibly sticky situation where one woman's promising him one thing, but he kind of wants another thing. And it's how he deals with all of the trials and tribulations.

[Paul Wontorek]

What I love about this production is. And don't take this wrong, but there's sort of a dead in the face quality to the ensemble and to you and to Joe. Joe sort of. It's just sort of like he's drained. And it's really compelling. Was that sort of something?

[Tom Francis]

Definitely a discussion that we had. It's really fun to play as well.

[Paul Wontorek]

Yeah.

[Tom Francis]

And it also makes the switch up between when we're on camera to when we're not on camera.

[Paul Wontorek]

Right.

[Tom Francis]

Way easier. Everything's just always in the eyes, always. And it's just about that stillness and the sort of, like, you say those sort of glazed over.

[Paul Wontorek]

What was it like creating these video sequences? And I know you said you rehearsed in a very large warehouse. I had a video screen so you could sort of be. What was it like discovering and how much of it was sort of found in the process, or was it all sort of figured out?

[Tom Francis]

It wasn't figured out. We. We. We definitely just did things on the fly. And the rehearsals, the first Time round were. Were pretty. Were pretty crazy. We didn't really know what was gonna happen. We really didn't know what was gonna happen. And it was. I still don't know what it looks like. Like every single time when we were rehearsing and I look up and Jamie would be like, stop looking at the screen because I don't want you to see what you look like. Otherwise you're gonna change what you're doing. Just do your thing and trust me and trust Nathan and trust Joe and just stop looking. So I still have no idea really what the production shots came out and I was like, it looks like that, but yeah, no, it was, it was definitely an exciting rehearsal process.

[Paul Wontorek]

Was there a chemistry test with Nicole? Did you, did you meet her prior to.

[Tom Francis]

I met on the first day of rehearsals.

[Paul Wontorek]

Wow. And you said, when's your birthday?

[Tom Francis]

And we were like, 29th of June.

[Paul Wontorek]

You both have the same birthday.

[Tom Francis]

We have the same birthday and she is like a sister to me now, which is, which is great. So.

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Yeah.

[Tom Francis]

But, but we just, we just clicked. We really clicked. And I just love going on stage with her every single night. She's the best scene partner you could ever wish for. Like, she just turns up and she'll like, come up to me and she'll like, before the show and she'd be like, I'm tired today, Tom. You know how she talks like she's so, so softly spoken and she's. I'm so tired. And I'm like, okay. And then she just comes out and does with one look and I'm like, you're not tired, are you? Just coming in and just destroying it every single night.

[Paul Wontorek]

I've actually heard you say she eats you alive on stage.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, she does. If you don't turn up, she eats you alive. And. And it is so true. But she's so great.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you do the title song, the top of Act 2.

[Tom Francis]

Yes.

[Paul Wontorek]

And you are doing it. You're backstage, we're following you. We're watching it as a movie.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah.

[Paul Wontorek]

There's a lot of movie elements to this, to the production. And, and it's very carefully choreographed. It's very funny. At first you're backstage, you see each of your co stars, and then you go out into the streets and you're. You're actually. Now you're doing the number on 44th street into Shubert Alley. Into Shubert Alley. It's a long, quick, brisk walk. The ensembles with you. There's choreography, there's security. What is happening?

[Tom Francis]

Honestly, it's Kind of a fever dream every single night. So it's just a blur, like every single time. Because you've got so much adrenaline.

[Paul Wontorek]

Sure.

[Tom Francis]

Because I've got an 18 piece orchestra and me in my ears. And sometimes if there's like a bus in the way, then that will cut out for 10 bars and I have nothing. And I just have to go with like an inner metronome.

[Paul Wontorek]

I didn't even think about that. So I'm like, you can't even hear.

[Tom Francis]

Sometimes it cuts out completely, but it doesn't happen a lot. But sometimes if there's certain objects in the way, then that. So it's like it's every single night. I'm like, please, just please make sure this audio works. So it's. Yeah, I'm kind of in it. I'm kind of in a fever dream. And you kind of just lock in with our incredible camera woman, Shayna McPherson, who came over from London as well. She's. She's honestly the heart of this show. And I just look into her and I. And it's like, you know that film Limitless.

[Paul Wontorek]

Yeah.

[Tom Francis]

And you know, when everything's going past and he's just walking straight, it's kind of like that kind of feeling. But, yeah, it's exhilarating today.

[Paul Wontorek]

And what is it? And by the way, there are a lot of videos on TikTok.

[Tom Francis]

Yes.

[Paul Wontorek]

Of like, here's Tom Francis doing his number. And is that. You just walk by with the camera. It's a lot more exciting in the theater. So go see it. Like, you actually can only experience it by sitting in the St. James Theater. Because it's so exciting. The. The actual camera work is. I mean, it's.

[Tom Francis]

See, I. But this again, I. I don't have that pov. I have no idea what it looks like.

[Paul Wontorek]

You have no idea what you're doing.

[Tom Francis]

I've never ever seen. I've never seen a video.

[Paul Wontorek]

I'm so sorry.

[Tom Francis]

The only version I saw was the one of like the Oliviers.

[Paul Wontorek]

Right, right.

[Tom Francis]

But other than that. Yeah, none of it.

[Paul Wontorek]

Can people hire you in the Future? Like in 20 years, can we be like. We want to.

[Tom Francis]

They should.

[Paul Wontorek]

They're like, yeah, just. This is the path. Do it. Do your number, do your thing.

[Tom Francis]

I think we should definitely make that a thing.

[Paul Wontorek]

It's a fun. Very specific, very. No one else can say that. That's their like. But no one's ever done that before. And what is, I think, actually exciting about it, what Jamie Lloyd, your brilliant director, is so good at is making sure we all know we're watching a show, we're watching a play as an audience, as a live experience. It's not trapped in the proscenium. And I've seen him do it multiple times. And so it's thrilling because you're actually. There are references to Nicole as a Pussycat doll and to your actors, and you're seeing. We all know, your performers. And that video is a huge part of that because we really see you and we're like, oh, he's outside now. And then he's busting through into the theater. That's really what it is. It's really reminding everybody that this is a once in a lifetime moment right now. You're all experiencing this right now. And that's what theater is, right?

[Phoebe Neuwirth]

Yeah.

[Paul Wontorek]

And that's. You're a big part of that.

[Tom Francis]

Yes, it's. It is a beautiful part of the genre, I have to say. I can't believe when he came up with the idea, I was like, you what? You want to do what? Yeah, but we're here, we're trying to make it happen.

[Paul Wontorek]

I love it. So you grew up on a farm?

[Tom Francis]

Yes.

[Paul Wontorek]

Tell me about that.

[Tom Francis]

It's very fun. All my family are farmers on both sides of my mum's and my dad's. All different types of farms. And, yeah, I just kind of, whenever I could, I would always be with the family doing whatever I could.

[Paul Wontorek]

Where was this?

[Tom Francis]

They're kind of dotted all over. There's. There's a few in Essex and then up north, where my dad's from, there's. There's a couple up there as well. And so, yeah, I'd spend most of my summers with my. My Uncle Phil, who was a dairy farmer, and I just spent all my time with him for the whole summer.

[Paul Wontorek]

Milking cows.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, milking cows and hanging out and going to markets and stuff. And I bought ducks. I went. I, like, started bidding one day when I was, like, 11 and at, like, a farmer's market, and I ended up buying three ducks. And my mum was. Was away with my brother and sister, and then she came to pick me up from. From the farm and I just put them in the back of the car and I didn't tell her. We were driving back and you just hear. And she was like, what the hell is in the car? And I was like, oh, yeah, I may have bought a couple of ducks accidentally. And she was like, oh, God. So, yeah, so I had some ducks at home for a while, which was fun. But, yeah, no, it's definitely A lifestyle that I love. I want to end up like Jonathan Groff. He has a farm, doesn't he?

[Paul Wontorek]

Yeah.

[Tom Francis]

And I'm like, I want to be Jonathan Groff.

[Paul Wontorek]

That's the. You're following Jonathan Groff's path.

[Tom Francis]

That's the goal.

[Paul Wontorek]

From the farm to Broadway.

[Tom Francis]

There we go. Wow.

[Paul Wontorek]

Okay, that's. Well, that's. I mean, a lot of people, I think, look up to Jonathan Groff, but not specifically because of the farm part.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, no, but I met him the other day. He came to the show, and I have to say, he's genuinely the loveliest person in the world. He bought his, like, sixth grade drama teacher along, and she. She baked everyone cookies, which is the best cookies I've ever eaten in my life. And I was like, this is the most wholesome moment ever. Who does that? I was like, you're great.

[Paul Wontorek]

Yes. You've unlocked something. Jonathan Grop is truly remarkable. Yeah, it's. It's. It's not human, actually.

[Tom Francis]

So I'm the big reason I got into theater, actually.

[Paul Wontorek]

Wait, say it again.

[Tom Francis]

He was a big reason I got into theater.

[Paul Wontorek]

Really?

[Tom Francis]

Yeah. Yeah, Because I watched his Spring awakening illegally on YouTube and I was like, that's cool. I want to be Jonathan Groff.

[Paul Wontorek]

Well, I mean, you're doing a good job. You're. You're on the path.

[Tom Francis]

Hopefully. Hopefully.

[Paul Wontorek]

So how did that kid on the farm end up at theater school?

[Tom Francis]

I. I play a lot of music as well, and I had piano lessons with the guy.

[Paul Wontorek]

You're, like, making music, aren't you?

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So that's all on the back burner at the moment, just because Sunset's kind of taken over my life. But, yeah, so I had a piano teacher who's now a very, very dear friend of mine, and he kind of was like, oh, you've got a good voice. He was like, why don't you just kind of give musical theater a go? I done a little bit of. We call it State, like, Stagecoach. Do you have that over here? Stagecoach?

[Paul Wontorek]

Yeah.

[Tom Francis]

Is that a thing over here?

[Paul Wontorek]

Stagecoach?

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, it's kind of like a Saturday school thing back home.

[Paul Wontorek]

Okay.

[Tom Francis]

I had done a bit of those kinds of things, and. And, yeah, I just was like, yeah, why not give it a go? And then I ended up going to drama school, and then I've just been winging it.

[Paul Wontorek]

Winging it.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah. Now I'm. Now I'm here, and I'm kind of just like, oh, this is really fun.

[Paul Wontorek]

I was actually a good time. I was actually interested. Really interested. To hear that you at the end of drama school and you didn't really like drama school from what I. From what I've heard.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Paul Wontorek]

But at the end of it they do like showcase where they bring in all the agents so that you can all get, you know, move on and become Olivier Award winning stars, hopefully. And there weren't. Nobody really showed up.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah. Because it was Covid.

[Paul Wontorek]

And then immediately everything shut down. Like, that's Covid.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Paul Wontorek]

That's crazy.

[Tom Francis]

We had our showcase and I basically went on stage and did like just before. And then the principal at the time was. Just came in and kind of said, yeah, no one's coming because Covid and I think you should all go and get your stuff because we don't know how long the school's gonna be closed for. And we were like, ah, right.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you just went home. And you were like, I just went home. Chilled out. Turn into something.

[Tom Francis]

Yeah, chilled out. Started running like everyone. And then. And then that kind of gave up. Tried to learn the banjo. That didn't work, much to my brother's dismay. So. Yeah.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you want to make music, you're on Broadway. What are the. I know you're doing some TV and film stuff. What is the dream besides trying to be Jonathan Groff? He's, by the way, he's gonna play Bobby Darin. I don't know if he needs a standby. That might.

[Tom Francis]

I'll do it. I'll do it.

[Paul Wontorek]

I think you're busy, actually.

[Tom Francis]

Get me there. The. Yeah, I just, I, I'm. I just kind of want to do anything and everything. I'm very much. I don't get bored, but I like having a, like a multi faceted life. Do you know, I mean like different things to sort of pick up and do. That's why I like doing music because that's really fun. I can go do that in the days and then I can go and do the show at night and. And I'm definitely very interested in TV and film as well. So whoever will have me during the crate.

[Paul Wontorek]

Yeah, we're almost done. This is it. During the crazy standing ovations at the end of Sunset Boulevard. You're on stage, you're in your underwear, there's blood on your chest, and you're just staying super serious. Is there ever a party that just wants to be like, thanks for coming guys. You're all very like, no.

[Tom Francis]

And some. No, there's not. Sometimes when we did like tech and stuff, there was like one day where I thought it'd be funny to do it. And there was no one in the audience because it was a tech thing. We'd just done it. And I came down, I did this, and I felt so wrong. It felt so wrong. I was. I'm not gonna do that again. Yeah. No. The serious battles, we've got to keep them serious.

[Tamsen Fadal]

That's gonna do it. For this week's episode, we'll be back with another episode of the Broadway show Uncut coming soon. Until next time, I'm Tamsen Fadal, and this. This is the Broadway show Uncut.