B (3:52)

That's good because I think that's probably true for a lot of people. I think there's a lot of confusion around this topic. I think there's. And yeah, I really. I think we are intended. So followers of Jesus are intended to. I was just in different passages in Matthew and Mark and Luke. That's where my Bible reading has been the last few weeks. And just be watchful, be ready at any moment. Like we're supposed to be ready today. Like, it could happen today. That kind of mentality should mark every Christian in any age, including our lives, Right. Sitting here right now. And. But then, yeah. So does that lead to joy? Does that lead to a sense of anticipation? That's what it should do to humility, to holiness. It should lead to all kinds of really good places. And so to make sure that's where it leads is for all of us is pretty important.

A (4:43)

Absolutely. And. And so. So what you were hinting at right there, I'd love to kind of jump a quick moment, especially into Matthew 24 and 25, because there's something that I didn't understand for the longest time, sorry, Matthew 25, when Jesus gives this parable of the ten virgins. And, you know, again, I think as I think in our generation, it's easy for me and easy for people my age to Read something like this and just kind of go over your head because it's, it's kind of like he's. It's a little interesting. He's given a parable of 10 versions, five with oil in their lamp, five without. And that's kind of like it, you know, and it's. You're. You're just kind of left hanging here. And I think this is important to what you're saying. What. When, when. When someone our age is reading something like the, the Parable of the ten Virgins. When it comes to the end times, what should we be looking for here in this passage when we're trying to understand the return of Christ? Like, what, what is being symbolized here?

B (5:49)

Yeah, well, I mean. Well, like, with any passage in Scripture. And I love the way you put that. Like, we can just kind of let it go over our head like, man, to really stop. Meditate on this word in a psalm, one kind of way to delight in this word and meditate on it day and night, to really soak it in. And so to look at the context, you mentioned both chapters, I mean, Jesus is clearly talking with his disciples in both these chapters about. Yeah, end times, about his return. And, and then he. So right before this, you've got this picture of nobody knows the day or hour. And then he tells. Which, by the way, I think recently there was. Yeah. A bunch of people thought the Rapture was coming or Jesus was coming back on this particular day.

A (6:35)

Yeah, September 23rd, that was.

B (6:36)

Nobody knows the day or hour. Like, that's, that's, that's super clear that when everybody. Whenever anybody says, I know when it is, then, you know, okay. They've just disqualified themselves. So although it was pretty funny, some of our pastors, we were just on a text stream that day, and they were like, hey, guys. You guys still here? Just trying to see if I missed out. But anyway, but so Jesus has just made that clear. Then he tells this story and he gets to the end. I mean, this is one of those parables where it's really helpful because he says, watch therefore for you in the last verse, right after he tells the story. Watch there for you for, you know, neither the day nor the hours, so be watchful. So I think, I mean, it's pretty clear he's telling us this story to make that point that this could happen at any moment. So we should be watching today and be ready for Jesus to come back today, because we don't know the day or hour. Like, that's. I think the. And then he goes on right after that, just looking at it in context to talk about this parable of talents. And so you've been entrusted with much. So how can you be faithful with what God's given you today? So yeah, but that's what I love about parables is that they give like a. This word picture of these virgins, some who were not ready and some who were. And he says, be ready.

A (7:55)

Yeah, I mean I think, I think that's the big thing. Especially when I'm, when we're talking a lot of college students, I'm, I'm online college. I'm an age of college student. Even when I was in high school, I think it's easy for people that are young to ignore the call to Jesus because they're caught in routine and rhythm. Like for me it was. I went to school Monday through Friday. I had, I had some sort of sports practice after school and when I came home from that, I had dinner made for my parents and then I would do homework and it was the routine. And then Friday night, go to the football game Saturday, do whatever Sunday, catch up on schoolwork for Monday. And that was the routine. And when I, you know, praise Jesus that he gr. Gripped my heart still in high school. But that was my, my struggle there was with, was with when I would try to share my faith with my classmates or with peers my age. There was this harsh pushback that it's like, oh, you're the righteous police because you, you are all in almost. And it's like I'm doing my thing and this, it was kind of cool to sit on the fence. But Jesus constantly, especially in this passage is like, I could come back at any moment and I could be here now. I could be here tomorrow, five hours from now. And yeah, it is funny like you said, the, the, the I call them tick tock profits, right? Like the people that know it's the day or the hour and we were seeing people sell their cars, quit their jobs because someone was like, they're coming this day. And to me that, that's almost that fear based. There's like a little bit of fear in that knowing like, okay, well I got to get my day, my life right on this day versus Jesus is saying like, no, be right now, get right now.

B (9:41)

Well, you know what I think as, as I'm listening to you talk, I think one thing that's helpful about. So I mean, yeah, we, we don't, we can't predict the day when Jesus is going to come back, but it's helpful to be like, well, then how do I want to. If that's true? Like, how. What do I need to do today to get ready for that day? If. Yeah. Realizing it, it could come at any moment. Like, we're talking about, like, and, and, and not in the sense of I need to sell my car or I need to, you know, liquidate my assets or whatever, but I need to live for what's going to matter on that day today. And I need to make some decisions today when it comes to just humility in my life, when it comes to holiness in my life, when it comes to urgency to share Jesus with people around me, like, yeah, that should change the way we live today. I mean, I kind of appreciate that some people, if they really think Jesus is coming back on this particular day, they're like, I need to make some changes. Well, that's probably true for all of us, but just like, on a continual basis. Yeah. And that's where we're, we are called, I think. And that's where scripture is so good because it all, it all goes together. Like, we, we see this and we see just this. Endure patiently. So live with urgency and endure with patience. Like, how do you do both those? Well, that's like the tensions that Scripture gives us to. God's Word, gives us to live in. And so, so we, I think for every age of the church and every follower of Jesus, we need to live with that kind of urgency. It could happen today. And we need to live in such a way that if it doesn't happen today, that the gospel is going to be going forward through our lives for generations to come. If Jesus tears that long.

A (11:21)

Absolutely.

B (11:22)

There's a way to do both those.

A (11:23)

Yeah. So obviously there's like a lot of different theological perspectives when it comes to understanding revelation, the end times, Jesus coming back. For someone that's just trying to get a simple grip of like, the different perspectives, just for a baseline, like, what are the different perspectives? You know, like, even, even when it comes down to something like the Rapture, what, you know, where did. What are just the basic different perspectives of revelation?

B (11:47)

Well, all right. So, yeah, revelation. And this is, I love talking about this because this is one of those areas I just want to say, like, from the beginning, at least, the way I would understand it is that Bible believing Christians do have different perspectives on this. So people who love God's Word, who believe God's word is true, read revelation and, and come away with some different thoughts about how the timing of all this is going to play out and I actually think it's a really healthy thing for Christians to be able to disagree about like that level of things. Like we can unite together around Jesus is God in the flesh who died on the cross and rose from the dead. And the only way we can be saved from our sins is by grace through faith in Jesus. Like that's, that unites us. Like we give our lives for that and we probably, I mean I can think of in the church that I pastor in metro D.C. there are so many different people who would have different views on how to understand these things. So just to kind of acknowledge that from the beginning. Yeah, but then. Okay, so how would I summarize. So Revelation. I mean some people would view like the book of Revelation like chronologically like this happens, this happens, this happens all the way from Revelation 1 or really Revelation like 4 and 5 to the end. Others would view it cyclically. So which means like it's, it's repeating cycles. And so it's kind of saying that say you see cycles with bowls and judgments and these different pictures. So even that. So there you got Christians who would disagree on that. Then you've got Revelation 20 talks about this millennium, this thousand year reign of Christ. And so there's pre millennials, there's post millennialists and there's amillennialists. So the quick summary is premiums would say Jesus is going to return before the millennium, this thousand year reign. But then there's even differences is that thousand year reign, is that literal? Is that figurative, like symbolic, like for a complete period of time. So there's different differences on that. And the Jesus returned before that, after that. Post millennialist or amillennialist would say the, like we're in the, that thousand year reign right now where there's all kinds of. Yeah. Persecution of Christians happening right now and has been for the entire church age. And then Jesus is going to come back. So then all that relates to the timing of when Jesus comes back. And, and, and tribulation is another picture that the Bible we see in the Bible. So is there a period of tribulation like seven years before the millennium, millennium or after the millennium? So I, I'm, I'm guessing people are totally confused at this point. I'm, I don't know. That's kind of, there's a variety of different ways to understand, put together whether it's Daniel, Revelation, Matthew 24 and 25, all these passages, how to figure out what is going on here.

A (14:36)

Yeah, I think, I think that can definitely be the hardest part about. Because There's a lot of, a lot of things like the tribulation, the millennium, and things like that that are highlighted in revelation that are almost like these. Would you classify them as like, secondary issues?

B (14:51)

I would put them at. So I like, I put them at even one level below that, like tertiary. The way I think about it, just kind of in summary, it's like first order would be like, things that every follower of Jesus believes the Bible's true, Jesus is God. All the things that, like, yes, that's, that's our whole faith is based on that. I would put like, secondary issues like do you baptize babies or not? Like, Presbyterians and Baptists would have a different view on that. They're both followers of Jesus, but they're probably not going to be in the same church. So secondary issues are kind of things that we might be in different churches and one day we're going to figure out who's right, but we can joyfully, like, partner together as Christians, but we're going to be in different churches. Then I would put like a third order. Like, tertiary issues would be things even in the same church where you've got disagreements. And so I would put these kinds of disagreements in that third category. Like, I would not. I'm totally great with being in a church with people. Like, if we, if they, if people wanted us to baptize babies, we would be like, ah, this is probably not the church. Yeah, but it's fine. We're still together in Christ. Like, let's work together for the spread of the gospel in the world. But when it comes to how you view revelation, that's like, okay, we got total different views on that.

A (16:04)

Gotcha. And so, and a part of that.

B (16:06)

I should mention one other thing, the, Is just how to view Israel and all that too. So there's, there's a lot of different views on how that Christians would have, on how Israel factors into that. Even the nation of Israel today, the picture of Israel in the Bible, how all that relates.

A (16:21)

Absolutely. And, and the term rapture. Right. We hinted at it earlier, this kind of idea that, like, we're all going to get sucked up into the sky. You know, I think people even reference Matthew when it's like two people are grinding at the millstone, one disappears, one still there. Isn't that, isn't that like, theological idea a little bit new? Like, it's like a newer or what? Like, how does someone wrestle with the idea of the rapt in, in a healthy way?

B (16:47)

Well, I think, I mean, when I, when I look at 1st Thessalonians 4. And I see this picture of like, we declare to you this. With this word from the Lord, we who are alive, we're left until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who've fallen asleep. The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, with the sound of the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ will rise. We who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so will always be with the Lord. Therefore, encourage one another with these words like, okay, that seems to be a pretty clear picture. The way I would understand that as like, all right, one day there's going to be. I was actually preaching on this somewhere over the last week, but it was just like, hey, we are an odd bunch of people as followers of Jesus in the world. Like, we. Not just for our views on a variety of social issues, but like, we actually believe that a Jewish carpenter's death 2000 years ago on a cross in a nondescript hill in the Middle east determines the destiny of every single person on the planet. And he rose from the dead. And not just rose from the dead, but he's going to come back one day riding on a white horse, and there's going to be a loud trumpet from the sky. Like, that's. That's pretty, pretty crazy in the world, but it's what we based our life on this. But that's so all that to say first Thessalonians 4. But then how that play. How that relates to Millennium, how that relates to Israel, how that relates to even current events. We might think about today where people are like, hey, this or that. Put it together. This is what the Bible's talking about.

A (18:26)

Maybe, yeah.

B (18:27)

Or maybe 100 years ago they thought the same thing when they looked at the current events. And maybe. Yeah, it's. It's good to have those conversations, but we need to make sure we come back to what really matters.

A (18:37)

Absolutely. And I think even there's even some things like, you know, I. I've heard ever since I became a believer, oh, you know, this. This river's turned red, and that means Jesus is coming back, or this thing is happening, or the earthquake over here. This isn't that so influx of a lot going on right here when it comes to the end times. But like you, you know, there has to be some certainties.

B (19:00)

Yes.

A (19:00)

For the believer that we can grip onto for that that gives us hope. Because I think sometimes it can be a little bit hard when you're reading these things or expecting things or even, even all the people that believed all September 23's the day and they got all their, their chips in on that, and then they wake up September 24th and it's like, oh, like that can be a little hard. So what are the certainties that we as believers can cling to in Scripture when it comes to the end times, return of Christ and things?

B (19:30)

Yes, I love that question because I really believe that's why. Well, even that passage I just read from 1st Thessalonians 4. The whole point is not to like, create confusion about Jesus coming back, therefore encourage one another these words. The whole point is we don't grieve without hope. We grieve in this fallen world with hope. That's the whole reason we have, that is not to like create debates in the church. It's to create encouragement in the middle of grief. Similarly, like the Book of Revelation I love. It's one of my favorite books I've ever taught through because it, it's written to suffering persecuted Christians in the first century who are facing all kinds of temptation to, to compromise their faith, to compromise holiness, to shirk back from spreading the gospel. And the Book of Revelation was written. It's the revelation of Jesus Christ. It's to give them a vision, a picture of Jesus and all of his glory in a way that compels them to follow him no matter what it costs them. Like, that's the whole point. So if, if we have, and that's where I, I would, I just would say to anybody who might even feel like, well, why do I even talk about all these things if there we don't know. No, look at what we do know. And, and some of the truths that, that I think Revelation is written to make clear are one, that God is sovereign. I think the part of the whole picture, even you mentioned Revelation 4 and 5, this picture of God around his throne, like he's in control. And just think about, think about what that meant for first century Christians. He's in control of history, not this emperor who's trying to kill you right now. He's not in control of history. God's in control of history. And think about how that relates to our lives today. Like, praise God amidst the turmoil of whatever we may walk through in our lives, God's sovereign, that Satan is subordinate. That's, that's clearly a picture. This is not a dualism battle between like Star wars, good and evil, God and Satan. This Is not duel. This is domination. This is, this is Satan is a defeated foe, and so fight sin knowing he is defeated today. Like, this is where it really brings it into our lab today, that, that in the end we know, like, there's a lot of questions we have, but we know God wins. Jesus wins, period. So he's worthy of all of our trust. So I just think about, I think about Revelation 17 and 18, this whole picture of Babylon, and it's deceptive. John, who's writing this is like, I was drawn in. I thought this, the worldly picture looked beautiful, and he was, but then all of a sudden it's totally crushed. And it's just this picture. This world looks attractive, but don't be enticed by it. Don't be drawn into the ways, pursuits, pleasures of this world. Live for another world. Like, that's what revelation is telling us to do. He, he is coming back. That's clear. He's coming back at some point. Be ready. And in anticipation of that day, help not just you, be ready, lead others to be ready. I mean, what you're giving your life to, Bryce, like, telling people about Jesus, introducing people to Jesus, like, this is what we're here on the planet to do with urgency today. That's what the book of Revelation leads us to do. So it's good to have these conversations about how do we understand this or that. In the end, if we're not like, growing in holiness and more urgent about sharing the gospel and loving Jesus more and anticipating him more, then we're, we're missing the point.

A (22:55)

Yeah, I, I, I think that's so good. When you, when you bring the idea of God's sovereignty into the picture, how does that kind of, how does that kind of play into the everyday life as a believer? Like, I think sometimes something that I personally wrestle with, with God's sovereignty. Like, I fully believe God is sovereign. As a believer, I absolutely 100% believe that, that sometimes I have a hard time when that wrestles with God's in control. But the suffering of the world is happening. Right? You know, God, God is sovereign and he's got the whole universe in the palm of his hand. But half of LA is cooked to the ground and toast. You know, how do we reconcile those two ideas of, like, okay, God is sovereign, he's in control. But suffering in this world, it still exists. And even in that moment where we're like, okay, sin is defeated, we're operating out of a place of this isn't like you said, this isn't Dualism, this is domination. But the wickedness is still here. You and I are living in the wicked world. How do we reconcile this?

B (24:04)

Well, and, and that's, I mean, I think that's part of the beauty of revelation. Like, sin is serious. It's infinitely serious. That's all over revelation. And, and suffering is real. Like, I just think about, I was just looking at this the other day in light of. We, we have brothers and sisters that we work with in Afghanistan who are just experiencing suffering and persecution and, and death for following Jesus. And I picture these martyrs around the throne who are like, crying out for justice. And so, yeah, that's one of the many things I love about the Bible. It doesn't shy away from the reality of suffering and evil in the world. But that's where. Okay, so how do you put all those together? And obviously in our finite minds? So, yes, what is. My dad used to always say, when you don't know what to do, do what you know to do. So when you don't really know what the answer is, like, focus on what you do know. Okay, God, I know God's in control. This world is not like spinning out of control. God is in control. Sin is the reason for suffering and death in the world. Not that just because, yeah, somebody's going through suffering is directly related to sin in their life. We got Job to show us that's not true. But we do experience there are fires in the world across LA because there's sin in the world, because we're separated from God. And there's injustice in the world, there's evil in the world. And revelation is super clear about that. And at the same time, Jesus has come to take that head on. Like, he has defeated sin and evil, death itself. Satan himself, he's defeated them. So now does that make it easy to understand all those things? No, but it does give all kinds of hope. Like when I think about my friends who are atheists who like, look at evil in the world but don't have any hope that it's like, there's going to be any justice in the end. Or like I, I want to point them to, no, there is going to be justice. And this is really good news. Yeah, that there will be justice in there. That evil's not going to have the last word. But if it's just like an atheistic kind of evolutionary worldview that we have, then, I mean, in the end it just. Okay, yeah, there was evil, injustice and no justice in the end. Like, that's. That revelation gives so much Hope in the middle of those tensions.

A (26:46)

Yeah, so. So you, like you said, Jesus is coming to deal with this thing head on. I think that's that verse in the Gospels where Jesus says, I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. Can, can we kind of like, explain that a little bit? Because that, that seems pretty hefty. Everyone always thinks. And I. Which this is true about the character of God. God is loving, he's kind, he's gentle. That statement seems pretty straightforward. He's like, hey, I didn't come to bring peace, but I came to bring a sword. Like, what does that look like in regards to the end times, in regards to the coming hope of Jesus returning a second time?

B (27:19)

Well, I, I mean, what immediately comes to my mind is Revelation 19. This is this picture of Jesus coming back on a white horse. And it says in verse 14, the armies of heaven arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he'll rule them with a rod of iron, and he will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Like, that's, that's, that's a heavy passage. And the, the whole picture here is, I mean, it really is the gospel. God is infinitely holy. He is loving and he. He is wrathful. Like, he hates sin, he hates evil. And we are sinners who've sinned against an infinitely holy God. We deserve infinite judgment for an infinitely holy God. And if we do not cast ourselves on his love and his grace and his mercy, then we experience the judgment we deserve. And so Jesus, his coming, and this is where you started. Like, he's coming to bring judgment for all those who trust in God's grace and love and mercy, or he's coming to bring like, redemption and salvation for all those who trust in God's grace and love and mercy and judgment for those who reject Him. And that's, that's a sober reality, but it's clearly what Scripture teaches, which is where. Yeah, why we urgently share the good news of God's grace. Like, we know this is coming. We know this is coming. So to everybody around us, let's be urgent with love.

A (29:12)

Yeah, so there's a. I think, I think that is definitely. That is a guarantee. That's another thing as believers, like, the guarantee is Jesus is going to judge the earth. I think that can be the scariest thing for believers. Because when we're talking to people in Gen Z, they're like, hey, look, I love Jesus. I struggle with this sin in my area of my life. And so when I think about Jesus returning and judging me, where I'm at, I'm not hoping the best for me right now. There's people that are going this, this and that, versus, and then there's other people who seem perfectly content in what they're doing, but they're kind of abusing that. Romans 6 through 9. Well, I'm forgiven. So I just do whatever I want because it's cool. Then there's like, the opposite extreme of it, where he's like, well, you know, God's forgiven me, so I'm this. How do we encourage the believer who is kind of carrying a little too much weight on the, like, weight on their shoulders? You see, we're asking, like, what about the believer that loves Jesus but has the thorn in their side?

B (30:14)

Yes. You know what text is really helpful for me on this one is the end of Revelation 20. I was just down in Brazil a couple days ago, and we were walking through Revelation, some of these texts, and this in particular. So you see this picture of, like, judgment before God, standing before God, and it says, verse 12. I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. Books were opened. Then another book was open, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged by what was written in the books according to what they had done. So right there, it's interesting. So you see the Book of Life, which earlier in Revelation is. Is a reference to those who have trusted in Jesus. Like, just, this is salvation. This is the gospel. We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus. And so for that first group, you're talking about, like, and it's. I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because we all need to press into this. Like, praise God. If Jesus comes back today. My standing is not dependent on what I'm doing today. It's based on what he did for me 2000 years ago on a cross. Like, I. Nothing in my hands, I bring. Like, if I were to stand before God in judgment right now, nothing in my hands, I bring simply to the cross. I cling like, I only have Jesus and his righteousness. Trust in him, nothing, no righteousness of my own at all. And so that's. We need to live there. And then at the same time, you see this. These books that do contain what they had done, it says in the next verse, verse 13, they were judged. Each one of them according to what they had done. So how do you reconcile that? And this is where we get to the second group. All who have trusted in Jesus, and this is the whole book of James. Everybody who has trusted in Jesus, like, truly trusted in Jesus as Savior and Lord of our lives, then there will be fruit in our lives, not perfection. Like, nobody. I mean, first John, you know, none of us are. It's not sinless perfection, but it is like, Christlike direction. Like we're pursuing Jesus and wanting to become more like Jesus. And yes, we all have besetting sins like we struggle with and fight with. And yeah, praise God, that my eternity does not hinge on. If I'm sinning in the moment I lose my breath like that is. It's my eternity hinges on who Jesus is and what he's done for me. And just my trust in him. And at the same time, like, in the, in my life, true trust in him will lead to, like, fruit of faith in him. Not perfection, but just direction. Holy. Not holy perfection, but holy direction.

A (32:46)

Yeah, I think that's so good because, you know, it's like, it's like, what happens if I'm in a moment of road rage and then I, you know, get in an accident and die? And that's, that's the fear on a down level. But you're like, hey, I think that's such a good reminder is like, trusting in Jesus and fruit. And I think that's why people wrestle with Matthew 7 so much. Not everyone who says to me, lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of Heaven, because I cherry pick that out of the whole narrative of the Sermon on the Mount. And before he's like, hey, there's going to be fruit. You know, we, we check for fruit. Not everyone who says, Lord, Lord with their mouth, but to avoid that, build your foundation on the rock. And for the believer out there, knowing, like. And that's just so good. That's such a peaceful encouragement.

B (33:29)

Yes, and it should be, I think. I mean, one thing that just keeps coming to my mind as I'm listening to you talk specifically is just if, if any, anybody, including any follower of Jesus, thinks about the return of Jesus and doesn't have, like, anticipation, like, eager anticipation for that, then we probably need to check, like, why that is. Because am I trusting in my own righteousness in some way? Or am I not trusting fully in Jesus? Or like, check. I remember, I remember. Yeah. When I'm a little embarrassed. I don't know if I've ever shared this. So anyway, but when I was I was getting ready to get married, and I was like, man, I'm so looking forward to getting married and the act of marriage that I would love for Jesus not to come back like that day. Like, at least wait till tomorrow.

A (34:24)

Yeah.

B (34:25)

So there's a lot of people that feel that way. So anyway, all that to say, I think that was something unhealthy in me. And here's what I think is unhealthy. Thinking anything in this world is better than seeing him and being with him, because he's infinitely better than everything this world has put together. And so if there's not eager anticipation because we're like, I kind of want to enjoy this or that, we're like, no, that's actually a good, like, diagnostic check. I'm. I'm. I'm looking for. To this world, for things that I. Clinging too tightly to something in this world. So if there's, I mean, the cry of revelation in the very end, come, Lord Jesus, come quickly. If that's not our cry, then I think we should ask, okay, why might that not be? And it'll actually. And to discuss that with other brothers and sisters in Christ, in community, I think that can be really. It can really help us grow in our relationship with the Lord. But especially when you think about, like, Psalm 27, one thing I asked, this is the one thing I want more than anything else. Just to behold you in all your glory, just to gaze on you. And that should be the one thing. That should be the one thing you and I wake up like, just, we want him. And if that's the case, then we definitely want him to come back today. And so if that's not the case, then we need to look at our hearts. And why is that not the case?

A (35:55)

Yeah, absolutely. So in Revelation, I mean, sorry, in Matthew 25, we mentioned the parable of the ten virgins. You know, the oil in the lamp. A lot of people say, hey, look, oil represents the intimacy of God. Like, these people keeping consistent intimacy with Jesus. And, you know, even. Even this morning I was reading this book by Brother Lawrence, the Practice of the Presence of God. And that's like, the constant theme is like, Brother Lawrence is like, hey, I am constantly trying to make sure that I don't like communion with God here. And then when it's time to do normal things, just, like, exclude him out of the normal things. It's like, why would I exclude him out and keep being intimate? What are just some practicals that you do to keep intimacy in your life? Because I think that when people are in constant communion with Jesus, they're gonna have this healthy anticipation and joy. And I think that's why like when you separate yourself from the intimacy and you get in your own head for a minute, that's when the fear begins to set in and things. So what are some practicals that you do for intimacy?

B (37:02)

Oh man, so good. I love that. And you're like, this is what I'm speaking on this Sunday. One of the things, just like you are made for intimacy with God, that word on a. In every day, every moment of your life. So I. Yes. So for me personally, just on a practical level, this will sound so basic, but. And I don't mean this like flippantly, I cannot live without concentrated time alone with God in the morning. I can't. Yeah. I. So that's the first thing I do, I get up in the morning is I spend. Going to the room. Matthew 6. Close the door and just be with your Father who's unseen. And your Father sees what's done in secret, will reward you like it's. There's just reward waiting every day in His Word. So I, I really believe intimacy with God revolves around. Yeah, just meditating on His Word day and night and finding your deep delight in it. Psalm 119, 162. I rejoice at your word like one who finds great spoil. Like there's spoil in this book waiting for us every day. So just to be in it. I love one of my favorite quotes from George Mueller. He's. He's known, he cared for like 10,000 orphans in his life. Just amazing testimony. But he, he said the primary business of our lives every day should be for our souls to be happy in God. Like this is what to drive every. And then he said the way to be happy in God is, is through meditation on His Word. He read through the Bible like 200 something times. But it's just so spending time in prayer in His Word. And then I, I need some kind of intentional way to fuel that kind of communion. Like I've got a basis for the beginning of the day, throughout the day. And so like one just like simple practical thing I do is like the verses. So meditate on my Word day and night. So the verses I'm working on memorizing, which I think is one of the most pract, Practical ways we can meditate on God's Word is to memorize it where we're just having to turn it over and over in our mind until it becomes a part of us. So I've got verses that I'm memorizing that I've got just on my kind of to do app on my phone, that during the day, whenever I have those idle moments all throughout the day where I'm tempted to look at this or that, just pull up and. Not that I don't look at anything else on my phone, but I want to throughout the day pull up those verses that I'm working on memorizing and just turn them over so that. That's helping fuel meditation and, and just. Yeah, I try to. I'm one of mentors in my faith. In my walk with Jesus. He just lived in a state of perpetual conversation with God. Like whenever we. We'd be walking together down the. Driving together somewhere, walking together down the street, and he just start. He just would audibly just start praying all the time. Like it was just. He was in perpetual conversation with God. I. I want that to be true in my life. And so I try to cultivate that and then all the way to intentional time, whether with my family, my. My wife and I have six kids, just trying to spend time in the Word and in prayer together at night. And we don't. And we're running all kinds of different directions, so we don't do it every night, but we try to whenever we can. And, and then with my wife and then at night as well, and then just. I want the last thing I do to be looking at those verses meditating on the Word day and night. So. But just those are some things I try to do. And then obviously, man, to be in a community with other brothers and sisters to fill yourself with, just to fill your mind with things that are going to be pointing you to Jesus instead of a lot of things that we can point our minds or fill our minds with in this world.

A (40:52)

I'm right now just thinking of Psalm 63. David says, Lord, I long to be with you, but I'm in a dry and thirsty land. And I can't help but think of the amount of times in my personal walk with Jesus and other people where they go to church on Sunday. They have the most beautiful, magnificent encounter with God amongst his people, fellowshipping together. And then they wake up the next day and they're like, where. Where are you at? I can't. I can't feel you. I can't hear you. And a lot of it, including in my life, has been, well, God, I can't feel you. I can't feel you. But there are a lot of times in the believer's life where they have the most magnificent, beautiful day of fellowship with the Lord. They lay their head on the pillow, and the second they wake up, it's like, you're kind of, like, discombobulated. You're just like, where am I? What is this? I don't feel like doing this thing. I don't.

B (41:46)

Whatever.

A (41:48)

How do we kind of plow that ground again every day when we wake up?

B (41:51)

Well, that. That's part of why I say I can't live without it, because I'm prone just like the next person. And I'm not just saying this. I. I think about one day recently where I got to my time with the Lord and I was just like, is this like a Saturday? I think I was like, maybe I'll just take a day off. Like, I. But then I went and so I spent that time with the Lord and, you know, however long later, I'm like, lord, I'm so sorry. What was like, why. Why did I not, like, run to this time? But. But that's why I need it every morning. Like, my mind is prone to be conformed to the pattern of this world. It needs to be transformed. And so that's where I just need to. And that's the beauty of the Bible, too. Like, I. I had a meeting with God this morning, and he spoke to me. Like, I heard his voice. He spoke to me, and it was clearly his voice. And Psalm 123 and in Acts, chapter 9 and 10, like, it was clearly his voice, and he was. He was challenging me. He was comforting me with his mercy. In Psalm 123, like, God was speaking to me. The God who spoke and the universe came into being was speaking to me. He was listening to me this morning. So I think to. We. We need that reset every day. And so to. So I like the way you put it. The plow through. Like, sometimes you just got to do it. Even when the desire might not be there. Yeah. And. And Even to. At some point. Yeah. It's just to say, God, change my desires. But. But that's where we. We obey even when we don't feel like it. Yeah, a lot of times. Yeah. That. That should be a characteristic of our lives in so many different ways. We obey when we don't feel like it.

A (43:39)

Absolutely.

B (43:39)

And we ask God at the same time. Keep transforming my desires. So I want to.

A (43:43)

Yeah. So good. I mean, one of the first truths that I. I just love clinging on to here, which I think this is such an incredible way to kind of close this. We hit it on a Lot of different points. You know, the weight of sin, revelation, talking about the weight of sin, why we need intimacy with Jesus, all of these things. I mean, right? In Revelation 1, when John looks up at Jesus so good, he says, fear not. I am the first and the last and the living one. I died. And behold, I am alive for forevermore, and I have the keys to death. And Hades. Yes, that. That last I have the keys to death in Hades might be the most gangster thing Jesus has said ever, because he is like. He is like, I own this thing that you can't escape. And I was so encouraged the other day by brother, because I was talking to him. He's battling cancer for the fourth time, and his name's Dylan. And he was telling me about the second time he got cancer. He's got a ventilator, and he's. When he woke up from the surgery, he's practically barely alive. And he's handcuffed to the. To the hospital bed because the initial reaction is to rip the. Rip the cord out of your mouth. And he's just barely laying there. And he looked at me and he said, for the first time, I fully surrendered to Jesus in that moment because I knew I couldn't get through the pain alone. And I remember he said death lost its. He said something along the lines of, like, death lost his grip on me, and that's the day I began to live. And what he was implying was, like, physical death means nothing to me now that I am fully following Jesus. Like, the second I surrender my life to Jesus, I'm allowing him to. In my life, hold the keys to death and Hades and say, I'm alive now. There's nothing that can do to live as Christ to die is gained, you know, like. And I'm looking at him and I'm like, dude, you have cancer for the fourth time. The doctors are telling him, go find a beach, get comfortable. And he's like, no, I want this. This is. This is. This is. My desire is to commune with God in the suffering and do this. And I feel so encouraged by Dylan. This truth, the keys to death in Hades. How can we as believers cling on to this in such a special way that fuels our faith every day? Like, Dylan, bro.

B (46:13)

Well, one praise God for that in Dylan's life. And yes, I. I think about this when I think about Christians who are today. I mean, brothers and sisters I know, who are, like, sharing the gospel at the risk of their lives. Like, they're. They're not even. Yeah. I mean, it's it's all suffering. They're willingly running into suffering. They're. Because they know this. Because they know they're free from fear. Like, as. As I'm listening to you talk, I'm like, Dylan feels unstoppable.

A (46:45)

Yeah.

B (46:45)

And this is where we're. This way. We should live. As followers of Jesus, we are free from fear. And it's. And that's the beauty. I think about Matthew In Matthew 10, when Jesus says, don't be afraid of anything, basically, people can do to you in this world. As he's sending them out and he's telling them you're going to be hated and persecuted, he says, fear, the one who holds the keys. Like. But fear in a revere and awe and love kind of way. Because, you know, you're. I mean, Jesus basically tells them, what's the worst thing that can happen to you? They'll kill you. And that doesn't sound like encouraging until you realize, no, death is actually gain. It's actually gain in a way that. And to live is Christ. So both. And. But again, I think that's where it's. Man, it's really. That's where. Why. Part of the. Why suffering can be so sanctifying because it can make us really check, am I afraid of death? Or actually do I. Am I free from the fear of death? And we're intended to live totally free from the fear of death. And that. I think that's exactly, again, why Revelation was written, to give that kind of comfort to Christians.

A (48:00)

So good. Sorry, I had one more thing that popped in my brain, but I think it's so good. 2nd Timothy 3. He gives us warning, like, in the last days, there's going to be a load of godlessness, like an unreal amount of godlessness. And he. I mean, he pretty much just lists everything under the sun and specifics here. Like, he doesn't give the broad. I mean, he's like, I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out. This is a heart check for me. Every day. When I think about this passage right here, going, okay, people are going to be lovers of self, money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy. I mean, you just list out the whole pile of everything. And this is what, this is what kind of hits me in this passage is he kind of like, is like they give the appearance of godliness but deny its power. I mean, as Christians, I think one of the. Some. One of the hardest things ever right now is to, you know, what's pure? What's pure? What do we look to? Where do we get our information from? What can we do right now in consideration to cause? I think, yeah, while we look to the hope of Jesus in revelation, we need to look to the warnings of what's going on here. And I think now more than ever, sex is glorified, power's glorified, money's glorified. I mean, what, what can we kind of take from this passage here in Second Timothy 3 in regards to warnings of the last days?

B (49:35)

That's so good. Bryce. What's coming to my mind is. And again, I think this is part of what revelation is written. Like come out from them and be separate, like be distinct. Because I, I'm reading this, this, these, this description of the world in the last days, which I would say we're in. I think we've been in them for the last 2,000 years. But so, and all these things were true 2,000 years ago and they're true today. But if we're not careful, like what's coming to my mind is we can, man, we can spend hours scrolling through a world that's just fueling all of this and it's like just conformin to the pattern of this world and so come out like we should be filling our minds with totally in, in totally different ways. Like we should be filling our minds with that which is true and excellent and praiseworthy and all the things Philippians 4 says to do. And what 2 Corinthians 2 Timothy 3 goes on to talk about the word of God that's breathed out by God like it's profitable, this is good for you. So to fill our minds with it and to spend our lives like as salt and light in this decaying dark world like Jesus has said you are. It's amazing. Matthew chapter five, you are not. You should try to be like, as the church I've designed you to be. Salt in a decaying world, light in a dark world. That's who you are. So be that like. And so yes, be distinct from the world, but for the world at the same time. Like show them so they may see your life and give glory to your Father in heaven, so they might see your life and not see. Just like a Christian spin of the American dream. And like Jesus is just kind of tacked on to it. No, like see a totally different kind of love, a totally different kind of serving, a totally different kind of compassion and selflessness and humility and peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, all the Fruit of the spirit, gentleness, self control. They would see that in us in a way that God is glorified in us. So come out from them and be separate. But that means we have to, that means going totally against the grain of.

A (51:51)

The way this world lives, literally counting the cost in a literal manner.

B (51:55)

Yeah.

A (51:56)

Before we pray to close, you know, if you, if you could leave an encouragement to believers right now. I mean, we've just, we've ripped through a lot of different stuff, you know, concerning the end times and concerning Jesus return. If you could encourage believers listening and watching with one thing, what would you encourage them with?

B (52:13)

Oh, man. Well, two things are coming to my mind. One that just, we, we didn't talk much about, but I just at least want to mention it. Like Matthew 24:14, this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. And Revelation 5 and 7 make clear like every nation, tribe, tongue and people is going to be gathered, represented around the throne of Jesus. So one big takeaway from revelation of this whole discussion should be, let's get the gospel to all the nations. Like there are, there are nations, people groups, tribes, languages where the gospel still hasn't gone so and ever. And we've. If this is where the train of history is headed toward the gospel going to all of them and you want your life to matter in this world, then jump on that train. Like, how are you living not just for the spread of the gospel where you live, but for the spread of the gospel to all the nations and we've all got a part to play. Yeah. So that's, that's one thing.

A (53:03)

Well, I feel like, I feel like there's a lot of believers out there that, that, that are like, oh, well, that, that's just not my thing. You know, that. Well, that's, that's just not. I'm not the talker, I'm not the guy. I'm just, you know, I follow Jesus, but it's more of a personal thing for me. But, but you're saying no, the, the encouragement should be right now. Preach to everyone that. Like I had someone tell me one time, anyone that breathes oxygen is a candidate for the gospel. Like, that's pretty crazy. And you know, and yes, go, go do it.

B (53:33)

Everybody made in the image of God around you. Every single person who God loves and God desires their salvation. Second Peter 3, 9. That's part of end times conversation. Like, he is patient, he's waiting, he's longing for them to come to know Jesus and he's put you in their life today. Like, I hope one of the takeaways from this conversation. Yeah. How awesome would that be that everybody listens to this conversation? That they walk away and just tell somebody Jesus loves them, he's made a way. Judgment's coming for sin and he's made a way for them to be free from sin and the power of death forever. Like that would be. That should, you know, that would be an awesome takeaway. And that we would say, let's make that news known literally around the world.

A (54:16)

Yeah.

B (54:17)

And then too, I think going back to what we talked about earlier. Yeah. That the one thing my encouragement would be like, look at Psalm 27, Psalm 63, like, is this my heart is the one thing I want more than anything else just to be with God? And if not, do the heart work? Why is that not the case? And do that heart work with some others who you can process through that with? Because life is found like true, abundant life is found in intimacy with God alone. And so don't settle for anything less than true, full, abundant life.

A (55:01)

Yeah. So good. I think one final question that comes to my brain in pertains to the gospel going forth. There's unreached places all across the globe right now. And the fact of the matter is everyone's got a ticking time bomb on their life. And there are people that have access to the word of God, don't have access to this leather bound Bible. What about those people that are around the globe that are in the midst of the suffering of the world that are, you know, the tribe of 30 people buried in the Amazon that have no Bible in their language, no one has ever been to them. What about those people when it comes to the last days when they stand by before God?

B (55:45)

Yeah, man, I don't know. I'll make it quick, but I, yeah, I could talk a long time about this. Just think about what does the Bible say about those people like that tribe and the, not just the tribe generally, but the individual men, women, children in that kind of setting, which is a reality for not just a few people, like billions of people in the world right now who have little to no access to the gospel or they don't know a Christian, they don't know a church, they don't have a Bible.

A (56:19)

Yeah.

B (56:20)

So what does the Bible say about them? The Bible says they are created by God for relationship with him. Every one of them, that God loves them so much that he sent Jesus to die on a cross for them. John 3:16, the only way they can be saved. And they now they have sinned against God. Romans 3:23. They've all sinned, are separated from God by their sins. So it's not like they're in some state of innocence before God. Yeah, like they're sinners before a holy God, which means they need to hear the good news of salvation. This is the whole book of Romans. It's Romans 10. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of Jesus. That's why we go to spread the gospel to them. How will they believe in the one they've not heard? How will they hear if somebody doesn't tell them? And so they. The only way they can be saved from their sins, Romans 10:17, is by hearing the good news about Jesus. And. And so Jesus has told us, go make the gospel known among them. So they are on a road that leads to eternal judgment. At this point, they're sinners before a holy God. The only way they can be saved from their sin is by hearing the gospel. And that's where we come in. That's why I wanted to make sure. Yeah, yeah, put that out there. Because this is. And that's not for a few people to care about. Like, that's for all of us to care about. It's for all of us to work to get the gospel to them, to make the gospel known among them. And I got to tell you this story real quick that I heard just this last week from this sister in Christ in Brazil. She. She served like, 30 years and really hard. Muslim settings, North Africa, the Middle east, among refugees, sharing the gospel. And she. I. I could tell you all kinds of stories, but this one in particular, she's in this cafe, and she was struggling. Like, she was. Like, I don't even. It was hard to be there. She's getting threatened to be kicked out of the country. And she's in this cafe, she meets this woman and just mentions Jesus in conversation. And the woman says, can we talk somewhere private? And. Because Muslim area that didn't want to talk in a public place. So they find a private place. She says, I had a dream, and I saw Jesus wearing a white robe, and he's talking to me. He says he loves me and he has come to give me life. And she. And then she asked this sister in Christ, she said, can you tell me more about Jesus? And so she just tells her the gospel. And this woman comes to faith in Jesus right there. So she walks away, and she was like, this is the sister in Christ, the. Not the new one, the One who served for 30 years there. And she walks away, and she's, like, praying like God, why. Why am I. Why do I have to even be here? Like, you're doing this. Like, you revealed yourself in a vision. You. She was practically sharing the gospel with me. Like, why am I. Why do I have to go through all. I'm going to be here? And she said she sensed God, saying very clearly, I do not work alone. God says, of course I could do that. I could. I could put the gospel in the clouds tonight and everybody in the world would hear it. But he's not chosen to do that. He's chosen to use us to our lives. He doesn't work alone. He works through his people. This is what I read this morning in Acts 10. Like, Cornelius has a vision. God says, peter, go tell him the good news. So there. And so God is working in dreams and visions all around the world. But you won't see one verse in the book of Acts where the gospel is going forward apart from a human instrument. Deal with the Holy Spirit of God making it known. Yeah, this is us. This is what we're made for. This is why we're on the planet, to make this good news Knows known to the end of the earth. So let's not settle for anything less than. Than walking in intimacy with God and leading other people, including tribes and whatever part of the world, to intimacy with God forever. Wow.

A (60:02)

That is so good. Can you pray for us to close out, that we just have that boldness to go out and make the gospel known? Because I. I agree with you. I believe we're in the last days, and I think we need him now more than ever.

B (60:12)

Yes. Yes. Yeah, let's pray. God, we. We praise you for your word. We praise you for your love for us. We praise you that you have not left us alone in this fallen, sinful, evil, unjust world filled with pain and suffering. We praise you that you've come to us, Jesus. We praise you for your death on the cross for us. We praise you for your resurrection from the dead. We praise you for your victory over sin and Satan. We praise you for your promise that you're coming back for all who trust in you. And so I just. I pray over every single person listening right now, even as I pray this over Bryce and myself, but just want to intercede for every single person who's listening to this right now that they. Oh, if they don't know you, they haven't trusted in you and your salvation and your love for them, that this would be the moment. This would be the day where they don't trust in themselves, but they just totally trust in you, your grace, your love for them and the righteousness Jesus, that you've made possible for them through your death and resurrection. And then that you would create in them a longing, a sense of holy, eager anticipation to see you and to be with you. You would give them all of us to live as Christ, to die as gain unstoppable approach to life and help us to walk in intimacy with you today. I pray that. I pray that over every single person listening that they would walk in deeper intimacy with you over the next week than they've ever experienced before and deeper intimacy the next week and the next week and the next week. We pray that over each other and God, that you would use our lives to lead others to intimacy with you around us today. That you would use our lives to lead others to be ready for your coming around us today and around the world. Please use our lives however you want, no matter what it costs, to make the good news of your love known among people who've never heard the truth about Jesus. In his name, we pray all these things. Amen.

A (62:34)

Amen. Guys, thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode. If you guys like it, subscribe to us on YouTube, follow us on Spotify, Instagram and Tick Tock. Bless you guys and see you guys next week for the next episode.

B (62:45)

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