A Tribute to the Enduring Legacy of Mrs. B

Summary

The Business of Fashion Podcast

Episode: "A Tribute to the Enduring Legacy of Mrs. B"

Date: May 8, 2026

---

Overview

This episode pays homage to Joan Burstein, affectionately known as Mrs. B, founder of the iconic Browns boutique in London, who recently passed away at the age of 100. Host Imran Ahmed is joined by Mandy Leonard—a former Browns buyer and founder of Mandy's Basement—to reflect on Mrs. B’s extraordinary influence on global fashion. Featuring memories from prominent industry figures such as Paul Smith, Lisa Armstrong, Susie Menkes, and Robert Forrest, the episode gathers the stories and values that defined Mrs. B’s immense legacy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legendary Status of Mrs. B (00:10–01:50)

• Imran Ahmed introduces Mrs. B as a legend in the truest sense, focusing on her role as a tastemaker and identifier of groundbreaking talent.
• She was pivotal in bringing designers like John Galliano, Rei Kawakubo (Comme des Garçons), Giorgio Armani, Ralph Lauren, and Donna Karan to British and European audiences, changing the global fashion landscape.

2. Personal Memories — Mrs. B's Character and Impact (01:51–05:01)

• Paul Smith (01:51): “She was always charming, polite and full of energy...always curious and always looking ahead.”
• Lisa Armstrong (02:18): Describes Mrs. B’s generosity, dignity, and relentless curiosity: “Amongst all the bad behaviour in our industry, she always remained dignified and gracious.” She was known for winning races to secure exclusives with new designers.
• Robert Forrest (04:00): Recounts Mrs. B’s direct and personal approach to acquiring Calvin Klein’s collection—securing it through a spontaneous conversation at Studio 54, which proved vital for Browns’ success.

3. Mandy Leonard’s Journey from Leeds to Browns (06:10–11:03)

• Mandy reflects on her northern upbringing, “service station scene” after clubbing, and first exposure to forward French and Italian fashion via Benetton, before her passion brought her to Browns.
• Her early impressions: “We always knew that Leeds was rubbish and London was great.”
• Mandy’s unorthodox approach to her CV landed her the Browns interview, demonstrating early on the value of individuality: “It was good not to be ordinary, right?” (12:54)

4. Working at Browns & Meeting Mrs. B (13:15–14:02)

• First impressions: “She was in heels, very, very elegant, very soigne, was very succinct. If she was going to say something, it wasn’t chit chat. ... She very quickly knew your name.”
• Mandy details the intimidating yet exhilarating nature of Browns and how Mrs. B considered the staff her family.

5. Curating and Nurturing New Talent (14:02–17:12)

• Browns’ roster included labels like Patrick Kelly, Jean Paul Gaultier, Dolce & Gabbana, Herve Leger, and more emerging talents.
• Mrs. B helped many American designers—like Ralph Lauren and Calvin Klein—break into Europe, often providing their first European stockist.

Notable Approach:

• Mrs. B’s ethos: never immediately “jump on a bandwagon.” Mandy recalls:
  • “She would say to me, ‘watch. Don’t buy it this season. Watch.’” (16:04)
  • The rationale: Buying too early and dropping a designer the next season could be “shattering” for their career. She prioritized nurturing talent, not just transactional buying.

6. Collaboration and Loyalty (17:35–21:12)

• Mrs. B fostered loyalty: “If they drop you the next season, that’s shattering. ... Also, has the designer got what it takes?”
• She maintained relationships even through weak seasons, ensuring continuity and support.
• Buying decisions were deeply collaborative—with buyers like Francoise Tessier and Monique as trusted partners.

7. Instinct and Teamwork in Fashion Buying (21:31–26:32)

• Mrs. B attributed her decisions to “instinct”:
  • “If you asked her that question, she would say instinct. And I love that about her ... I think it was just her Gut feeling.” (21:59)
• The strength of her team and openness to discussion created a unique buying dynamic.

8. Browns as a Radical, Community-Driven Retail Space (26:38–30:48)

• Browns was the UK's first major multi-brand store, pioneering curated retail when single-designer stores were the norm.
• The store fostered a sense of community, familiarity, and personal connection with shoppers: “You were still on the shop floor as a buyer then... you were buying for each customer.” (31:20)

9. Lessons for Today’s Fashion Retailers (30:48–34:33)

• Focus on curation, individuality, and customer relationships—not just scale and algorithms.
• Mandy’s advice for independents:
  • “The worst thing you can do is try and be all things to all people...” (32:14)
  • Stay true to your store’s point of difference and challenge your customers to expand their tastes.

10. The Enduring Legacy and Final Reflections (34:19–41:16)

• Mrs. B remained deeply engaged and passionate about fashion into her 90s.
• Mandy reflects on the camaraderie and lifelong friendships made at Browns, crediting Mrs. B for creating a uniquely supportive, creative network:
  • “She brought together the hottest stylists... just bringing this incredible community together. It’s very, very precious. It’s an incredible network.” (39:10)
• Imran Ahmed closes: “The fashion industry is really going to miss Mrs. B. But she's made such an indelible contribution to the industry that she's definitely a legend that will go down in history.” (40:54)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Paul Smith: “She always had an open mind for new ideas and new designs. So always curious and always looking ahead.” (01:53)
• Lisa Armstrong: “She trained and supported tons of people who went on to become influential and powerful in the industry. What feels most inspiring to me is her curiosity and the way she shared her experience and knowledge with anyone who asked for it.” (02:55)
• Robert Forrest: On clinching the Calvin Klein account: “So Mrs. Be turned to him and said, I'm Joan Burstyn of Browns and I'd like to buy your collection, but we're having no luck calling your office. So he gave us his number...” (04:28)
• Mandy Leonard: “She was unapologetically in love with fashion, even at her grand age of 99. ... She had a very open mind. There were some labels that I wanted to buy for Browns... and she would say to me, watch. Don’t buy it this season. Watch.” (15:13, 16:04)
• Mandy Leonard: “She wasn’t just taking the collection from them as they were presenting it, she was helping them, but in a non-patronizing, just, you know, a guiding way. ...like they were proteges.” (19:29)
• Imran Ahmed: “Stay close to your customer. Don’t try to be all things to all people, challenge your customer.” (33:31)
• Mandy Leonard: “Confidence in what you’re doing. What is your point of difference? ... People had a lot of confidence in Browns when they went to shop there. ... If Browns have bought it, it’s interesting, right?” (33:40–34:19)
• On the Jewish community and early fashion sustainability:
  • “What was great about the Jewish community was that they enabled a lot of the immigrant communities in their universe...because it was all sustainable and no one had any money, they were all living very poorly in the East End, it was so sustainable. So if somebody bought for a store this incredible quality from this culture back then, the prices were great because there was no wastage. So it was almost like sustainability before it had to be. That's how fashion was then.” (36:04)
• Final gratitude:
  • “Thank you for these incredible friendships. ... We look back with such affection on that Time of Our Lives, she brought together the hottest stylist. ... bringing this incredible community together. It’s very, very precious.” (39:10)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10–01:50 | Introduction to Mrs. B's impact
• 01:51–05:01 | Industry leaders share Mrs. B anecdotes
• 05:11–14:02 | Mandy Leonard’s story & joining Browns
• 14:02–21:12 | Inside Browns: mentoring, buying, nurturing talent
• 21:12–30:48 | Instinct-driven curation & store experience
• 30:48–34:33 | Lessons for independent fashion retailers
• 34:33–41:16 | Mrs. B’s lasting legacy and emotional farewells

---

Takeaways

• Mrs. B’s instinctive, human-first approach to curation remains relevant for retailers today—prioritizing relationships, loyalty, and community over mere commerce or trend-chasing.
• Her legacy includes the nurturing of countless designers and industry professionals, the creation of a uniquely influential London retail space, and a model of old-school service and true curation that stands as a benchmark for the industry.

“Long may her legacy last.” – Imran Ahmed (41:20)

---

Transcript

[Imran Ahmed]

Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and

[Business of Fashion Host]

CEO of the Business of Fashion.

[Imran Ahmed]

Welcome to the BoF podcast.

[Business of Fashion Host]

It's Friday, May 8th. In fashion, the word legend is often used as a convenient shorthand for longevity. But Joan Burstein, affectionately known in the fashion world as Mrs. B, was a legend in the truest sense of the word. When she opened Brown's on South Moulton street in 1970, she didn't just open a boutique, she established a portal for the radical avant garde fashion designers that would fundamentally shift our industry's tectonic plates. Mrs. B also possessed a legendary eye for talent. She was the one who plucked John Galliano's graduate collection out of obscurity, provided the first British home for Rei Kawakubo's Comme des Garcons, as well as Giorgio Armani, while also giving American designers like Ralph Lauren and Donna Karan an entry portal to the European market. Following the recent passing of Joan Burstein at the age of 100, we find ourselves at a moment of profound reflection for the industry and Mrs. B's immense legacy. Joining me this week to reflect on this special history is Mandy Leonard, who worked closely with Mrs. B as a buyer during the 1980s and 90s and London fashion's most fertile era as the founder of her own creative consultancy, Mandy's Basement. Mandy has spent decades at the heart of London's fashion scene, applying the sharp, instinctive eyes she honed under Mrs. B's mentorship. But first, we asked some of the people who witnessed Joan Burstein's magic firsthand to share some of their favorite memories with us.

[Paul Smith / Robert Forrest]

Hello, this is Paul Smith. And my favourite memory of Mrs. Burstein, or Mrs. B, is the fact that she was always the same every time or anywhere you saw her. She was always charming, polite and full of energy. And I suppose the impact she had on me personally was the fact that she always had an open mind for new ideas and new designs. So always curious and always looking ahead.

[Lisa Armstrong]

I'm Lisa Armstrong, head of Fashion at the Telegraph, and I first met Mrs. B in the late 80s when I was at Vogue. I imagine Liz Tilburys, who was editing Vogue then made the introduction. She was really good like that and so was Mrs. B. She was always generous with her time and unfailingly courteous. It's an old fashioned word, but it fits. And amongst all the bad behaviour in our industry, she always remained dignified and gracious. That said, you never doubted who would win in a race to secure an exclusive with a new designer. She kept an open mind and Loved fashion right to the end. Full of opinions, she trained and supported tons of people who went on to become influential and powerful in the industry. What feels most inspiring to me is her curiosity and the way she shared her experience and knowledge with anyone who asked for it. This is a message from Phil.

[Susie Menkes]

Susie Menkes.

[Lisa Armstrong]

I was a fashion enthusiast for my 21st birthday.

[Mandy Leonard]

I knew Mrs. B from her earliest

[Lisa Armstrong]

times in the fashion, when her breathless

[Mandy Leonard]

enthusiasm went from the streamlined tailoring of

[Lisa Armstrong]

Giorgio Armani to the sexual glamour of

[Mandy Leonard]

the unknown John Galliano. I loved seeing Mrs. B when she

[Lisa Armstrong]

chased after her latest discovery, especially when

[Mandy Leonard]

it was Calvin Klein, and I watched

[Lisa Armstrong]

her race after him at a New York party.

[Mandy Leonard]

Naturally, she succeeded in getting his collection,

[Lisa Armstrong]

but Mrs. B was as kind as she was clever.

[Paul Smith / Robert Forrest]

My name is Robert Forrest. I started work at Browns in 1970. You know, years ago, in the early 80s or late 70s, Grace Connington had listed bracelet. English folk were wanting to photograph the Calvin Klein collection. So we wanted to go to New York and see the collection and look at it with a view to buying it for Browns because what we'd seen was interesting. It offered us something different to what we were buying in Europe. But every time we contacted Calvin Klein, we were told, no, they weren't interested. We used to call a woman called Frances Stein, the late Francis Stein, and she would say, no, we're not interested. Well, one night in Studio 54, we're standing at the bar, and who should walk up next to Mrs. Beaver? Calvin Klein. So Mrs. Be turned to him and said, I'm John Burstyn of Browns and I'd like to buy your collection, but we're having no luck calling your office. So he gave us his number, said, call me tomorrow at my office. From that went to view the collection, wanted to see the show, and we bought the collection and it was very successful.

[Business of Fashion Host]

And now here's Mandi Leonard on the life, the I and the enduring legacy of Joan BURSTEIN on the BoF podcast.

[Imran Ahmed]

Mandy Leonard. Welcome to the BoF podcast.

[Mandy Leonard]

Thank you.

[Imran Ahmed]

Do you know you and I met 20 years ago.

[Mandy Leonard]

It's really weird having this conversation because we're going to be talking about even longer than that. And that actually feels like yesterday.

[Imran Ahmed]

I know that was 2006, and I was burrowing around London Fashion Week trying to figure out a way to break into this industry, but that's a whole other story.

[Mandy Leonard]

It was very organic.

[Imran Ahmed]

Organic indeed. I mean, I stumbled into this, but I'm loving it still. 20 years in, but this conversation is going to be really a tribute to a legend in our industry. And I don't use that word legend lightly. It's sometimes overused in industries like fashion because people just want to call everything iconic or everything legendary. But Joan Burstein was a truly legendary woman and I'm really pleased to have you here.

[Mandy Leonard]

Thank you.

[Imran Ahmed]

Given that you were so close to her, that you worked so closely with her, that you had the chance to benefit from her mentorship and guidance and wisdom and expertise. And we're going to get into all of that in a minute. But I think it's important to start with a bit of your story. Mandy and I actually. I don't know much about you and how you ended up in London in the fashion industry. You grew up in Leeds.

[Mandy Leonard]

Yeah.

[Imran Ahmed]

During a time, I suspect, when there was a much bigger separation between the north, in the south, in. In this country. But tell us how you managed to make your way from Leeds to London.

[Mandy Leonard]

I think clubbing was such a big thing. And it's the same in London. They had their club scene, but we had seen in the North. And the difference is that in the north, we had a service station scene after going out. So when you traveled, you had to travel to go to a nightclub, whereas in London, people just went. And there were so many.

[Imran Ahmed]

What's a service station scene?

[Mandy Leonard]

It's after you've been to a nightclub, you travel back to your town or village in the north, where I was, my catchment area. But, you know, anything for clubbing, you'd work the next day, but anything to go clubbing. So we went to Manchester nearly every night. There was great fashion in Manchester. We had Richard Cream, who actually sold Commes des Garcons rei karakubo, made bespoke Comm for him because he was as tall as a streetlight, very unusually tall, and he had incredible pieces. And then when I later worked at Comme des Garcons, it was very funny because people from Manchester and Leeds would come to London to the Comm store which Joan Burstein opened, but they wanted what they didn't have in their local territory.

[Imran Ahmed]

And were you always interested in fashion? How did you first get the bug?

[Mandy Leonard]

I think I was just always bothered about fashion. It was a way of expressing yourself. And I think a lot of people do say this. They feel very ordinary growing up. It was a time when even adults didn't really talk to children. And I just felt like I was ticking a box and I wanted to be individual. So I had a SAS day job. I had a series of SAS day jobs. But when I went to work for Benetton. I met an incredible guy called Ricardo Barcatelli who opened a lot of headquarters for Benetton in the north of England. And when I went for an interview for a Saturday job while I was at school, he offered me a full time job. And I said, oh no, actually I'm looking for a Saturday job. And that led to working in the school holidays and doing the store windows. Because my mum was a mature art student, we came to London regularly to go to art exhibitions. And it was in London that I saw the Benetton store window. So I'd try and replicate or emulate that where I lived. So, yes, I just immersed myself in fashion and then this Ricardo got me a job on the Champs Elysees in Paris and I worked there for six months and I became fluent in the store in French, which helped me when I became a buyer going to Paris Fashion Week, of course, and it was too easy to come back and just fall into Benetton.

[Imran Ahmed]

And.

[Mandy Leonard]

And I very quickly became a manager, an area manager. I ended up in London being a buyer and an area manager. And then the boss from Yorkshire invited me back and then I came to London again and it was very much about, you know, where do you want to work? And I only wanted to work at Browns. And yeah, it was. It was really exciting actually. It was just after the mid-80s.

[Imran Ahmed]

Okay.

[Mandy Leonard]

I moved to London.

[Imran Ahmed]

Okay.

[Mandy Leonard]

Yeah.

[Imran Ahmed]

And when you came to London, then London is obviously very different from Leeds. Like, what was your impression?

[Mandy Leonard]

Well, we always knew that Leeds was rubbish and London was great. So, you know, there was no higher expectation than that.

[Imran Ahmed]

And then at a certain point you discovered Browns on South Moulton. State number 23 South Moulton Street.

[Mandy Leonard]

23 to 27.

[Imran Ahmed]

Okay, what's your first memory of walking into Browns?

[Mandy Leonard]

We would get the National Express coach to London and we would head to Browns on South Moulton Street. And I think the thing about Browns was, yes, it was very intimidating, but we went in there, it was the pull of Catherine Hamnet, they had the denim. So it was actually quite a democratic product to have in there because we could actually afford a basic pair of jeans.

[Imran Ahmed]

Is that why it was intimidating to you? Because everything was expensive or were there other things that made it feel intimidating?

[Mandy Leonard]

I think it was an imposing store. I wasn't from London and this was where it was all happening. You know, you go to the Wag on a Friday night and everyone would have a Wright and Teague rucksack with nothing in it. Everyone was wearing backpacks, but with Nothing in it. You go to Freud in Covent Garden and everyone was wearing Gaultier. It was a real scene. And going into Browns it was just this fashionable thing. It was almost like oh my gosh, this is incredible.

[Imran Ahmed]

How did you get the job there?

[Mandy Leonard]

I just wrote a letter and when I left I stayed for A levels at school but I could do, you know, school. I was good but I couldn't do the jump to A level, I found it too difficult. So I kind of left chemistry, economics and fresh French very, very quickly and went to do a secretarial course for a year and it was very boring. It was quite a good course. It was a personal assistance diploma. Everyone in the class had A levels and I didn't know how I got in it and it was incredibly boring. So for the fun of it I wanted to be the fastest at typing. I was. And that serves me very well now you know how quickly I respond to an email. I mean, and then I remember one day we had to write our CVs and I realized, oh, but everyone in here is going to say traveling and meeting people, people. I'm not going to do that. So I wrote Modern Rhythm interests devouring monthly magazines, Modern, Rhythmic Dance, all this crazy stuff. And when the teacher went around the class and she looked at everyone's cv, she might look mooch, mooch. But when she got to me she spent ages and I thought, what's happening here? And she said to me after a while, you sound like Miss World. And when I sent that CV to Browns, I remember I was in my parents kitchen in Leeds and a woman came on the phone and she said, my name's Erica and you sound wonderful, I want to meet you. And I thought there you go. That was, you know, Miss World. It was good not to be ordinary, right? Didn't want to be ordinary.

[Imran Ahmed]

I mean Mandy, I knew you weren't ordinary from the moment I met you. You're still not ordinary.

[Mandy Leonard]

But we know so many extraordinary people in this industry.

[Imran Ahmed]

Yeah, well that's what makes fashion amazing is there's all of these kind of crazy characters, you know. So you get this job at Brown's. Do you remember the first time you met Mrs. B?

[Mandy Leonard]

Yes. She was in heels, very, very elegant, very soigne, was very succinct. If she was going to say something, it wasn't chit chat. And she had an affection for all the staff, actually they were her family. I must say she very quickly knew your name. I wasn't very popular when I started there because I was so Happy to have the job that I got there early every day in Hoovered and then to keep us all busy because, you know, new, new staff. What you do now? What do you do now? They just said, oh, go through all the clothes and read the ingredient, the composition and the ingredients. But actually, very quickly you could use. You could weaponize that, and it helped you sell because you sounded like you knew your stuff, and it was an incredible education. The labels that they had were just mind blowing.

[Imran Ahmed]

What did they have?

[Mandy Leonard]

They had the black American fashion designer Patrick Kelly, who was just incredible. He did bodycon and he had all these colorful buttons, and it was all primary colors. They had John Paul, Gaultier, Dolce and Gabbana. Herve Leger was very early. You know, Mrs. Burstein really opened the gateway for so many designers. So when you see archive photos of her with of the big famous fashion designers, there's a very close relationship there. And as much as I was intimidated going to Browns before I worked there, you know, these. Even someone like Ralph Lauren or Calvin Klein would have been very intimidated at the thought of selling outside America. And Mrs. Burstein gave them that portal. So once they were in Browns, they could then. They could then attack Europe. So she was the first stop, which was a very prestigious position to be in.

[Imran Ahmed]

So, you know, in our industry, we often talk about someone's eye. Someone has a good eye. Clearly, Mrs. B had a good eye.

[Mandy Leonard]

She was unapologetically in love with fashion, even at her grand age of 99. When I spoke to her, she was still interested and engaged in fashion, which I found incredible. She had wonderful taste. She'd nurtured an incredible network of buyers, friends, press. So if anything new was coming through, she would very quickly hear about things. But I think one of the amazing things about her was that she would never jump on a bandwagon. So if she heard something was gray and she had to buy it, that wasn't a reason to buy it. She had a very open mind. There were some labels that I wanted to buy for Browns. You know, I might have just seen their show, and she would say to me, watch. Don't buy it this season. Watch.

[Imran Ahmed]

What did she mean by that?

[Mandy Leonard]

She meant, don't jump on the bandwagon. Browns were so powerful, it was a juggernaut. So if you're a young designer and Browns bought you, you know, you're going to ring up your whole family. It's life changing. But if they drop you the next season, that's shattering. And you have a real responsibility as a buyer. And I think, you know, also has the designer got what it takes? So in a way it's this responsibility, but you're nurturing fashion talent as well. So to actually take somebody on, you need to really know whether they can hack it. There were some very big famous fashion designers who, you know, all designers have a weak season. And there was one big famous designer, British, who I was with, Mrs. Burstein, and the buyer who had gone to buy it rang her up to say, oh, we won't be able to sell it this season. And she was saying to me, make an order, make an order. You know, there was that continuity, loyalty. It was a collaboration. When she worked with designers, it was a proper collaboration.

[Imran Ahmed]

That relationship driven approach to fashion, to retail. It's something that's missing now. Like it sometimes it feels so transactional between stores and the young brands they want to support and they'll like, toss them aside after a couple seasons. They won't pay them, you know, on time. Like there's all of this dynamic.

[Mandy Leonard]

She completely recognized what you're saying, and she recognized what it's like now versus to then. You know, Browns was radical. She was radical. She had her ear to the ground. She was just as excited about hot new graduate talent as she was about beautiful quality. Jill Sander. You know, you've got to remember that you go in the alterations department at Browns and if you ask them who's your favorite designer, they all say Jill Sander, because you could actually wear those clothes inside out. The quality was so staggering. But Mrs. Burstein wasn't getting on any bandwagon for anybody. And I think that that served her really well.

[Imran Ahmed]

You mentioned just a few minutes ago that, you know, brands like Ralph Lauren, Giorgio Armani, businesses that became global juggernauts, you know, how did she convince them that this store on South Moulton street in London was the right place for them to break into this market?

[Mandy Leonard]

I don't think she had to. I think, you know, she was a very chic, elegant woman and very early on she had all the right labels. So even though, let's say there might have been lesser known profile names, I think that they would recognize that this woman was serious. Also. Just remember that those designers that you're talking about, Donna Carroll and Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, they weren't really that well known yet anyway. So it was very early on. And that's why it is a collaboration, because Mrs. Burstein was as vital to their business as they were to her.

[Imran Ahmed]

Did she ever back a designer that didn't turn out to be worth the investment or the time?

[Mandy Leonard]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't say that. Yeah, you know, it's a lot of relationship. And I think with relationships you might have, you know, like Manola Blahnik, he worked at Brown's at the very, very beginning in the work.

[Imran Ahmed]

Okay.

[Mandy Leonard]

And he obviously wanted to do his shoes or what have you. I don't know the exact story. But because of that relationship, of course you would support him with his shoes. I mean, I'm like that with my clients. I don't need to see what they're creating. Once you meet the person, you know, whether you want to work with them, you don't necessarily need to. You can help them steer. And just remember that sometimes when you take graduate talent, they might not have a wonderful tutor that's guiding them, holding them by the hand. Some of these graduates, they leave fashion school and they're suddenly on their own, but there's a responsibility that comes with that. And Mrs. Burstein built a rapport very early on. And she wasn't just taking the collection from them as they were presenting it, she was helping them, but in a non patronizing, just, you know, a guiding way. You know, like they were proteges, as it were. And, you know, in the 80s, there was this explosion of British fashion. All the world wanted British fashion. It was just insane. And there was an exhibition last year at the fashion and textile exhibition, Renegades. And it was about 80s fashion and, you know, to set the scene. And MTV Europe only launched 86, I think, and, you know, London Fashion week only started 84. So this was like the most fertile period in British fashion. It was just all exploding. John Galeoni wasn't the only one that got a window at Brown's. Dean Bright. He had a window. And just remember that Bodymap was selling in the stables in Camden to all the clubbers.

[Imran Ahmed]

And then there was, eventually there was McQueen and there was Hussein Shalime, later.

[Mandy Leonard]

Hussein Shalime was actually late 80s, early 90s.

[Imran Ahmed]

She had the ability to kind of identify and not even just like pluck out of obscurity, but just be able to have that foresight about who was a designer that, you know, that real. Had real potential. What did she look for, do you think? What was she. What was it?

[Business of Fashion Host]

What enabled her to make those kinds of choices?

[Mandy Leonard]

If you asked her that question, she would say instinct. And I love that about her because I don't like to analyze things. I hate to overanalyze. And I think it was just her Gut feeling. But just remember again, she had a wonderful team of people. She had a very long standing buyer, Francoise Tessier. She had an amazing buyer for Donna, Karen, Monique and all these women were very, very important people in her life and you know, they wouldn't go to a buying appointment if they weren't with her. Quite often she was there but if they weren't with her, if they were concerned about anything, they would very readily go to her and discuss it. So everything was a collaboration and she had such a respect for the, for these buyers, you know, there was a fabulous woman, Marie, who bought Sonya, Ricky, Owl and Mrs. Burstein was delighted by fashion. It was her dream vocation, she was meant to do it. And you know, it's like delegating a team. It's like you here at business of fashion, you know, you're being fed the information by all these like foot soldiers who you've helped nurture and as well as her own taste, you know, I've been to so many shows with her and she loves fashion, she's up for it. You know, Refa Ozbeck was a very good friend of hers. He was based around the corner. Robert Forrest was involved in the business and we all had very close relationships. I bought Ozbec. Mrs. Burstein sometimes came with but I remember, you know, Ozbec couldn't sell fast enough and you know, it was quite expensive. But you know, we had the relationship where we could buy the sample collection and then we had pieces that weren't even produced. So the Browns customer was getting, you know, super exclusive stuff. There was no social media, you had a. We had a lookbook. That's how we did the buying. Quite often we did our buying before the show, which you wouldn't hear of now and then after the show we'd update from what we saw in the show quite often the fab last minute stuff that the designers put in the shows they couldn't produce. But there was a. Browns could make things happen. So I remember going to Comme des Garcons because of course Mrs. Spurstein opened the first British Comme des Garcons store which, you know, that's no mean feat. It's very different from Brown's. Comme des Garcons was a different clientele. People poets, advertising, very interesting customers. I really liked. It was very disciplined, 80% listening to a customer. He didn't serve people, they serve you. And you know, imagine how Comme des Garcons trust, a big trust for Mrs. Burstein to take on Comme des Garcon I mean, again, it's a collaboration comme wanted, you know, to expand. And, you know, Mrs. Burstein, she bought Chrome Hearts very early. The only place that had sold Chrome Hearts up until then was the Kam de Garcian store in Tokyo. And it was just incredible, you know, all these. This collision of design talents that she had and she would just go for it. She never thought to herself, oh, well, we've got that designer. It's a bit similar. She had instincts, which I think is the best way to operate.

[Imran Ahmed]

Hmm. Instinct is essential in our business. I was just also thinking about, you know, the decisions. You said that, the decisions to buy into a brand and you said, like, different buyers or like she had these foot soldiers in her way. What were those conversations like, you know, what kinds of questions would she ask you or your colleagues in the buying team when you were thinking about bringing on a new brand? Like, what were the things that she cared about?

[Mandy Leonard]

I can't remember those moments, per se. I remember going to a Val Peru show and being obsessed and wanted to buy it immediately. And that was when she said to me, watch, keep looking, you know, watch, you know, and that has kept me in good stead throughout my career. That's a really great thing. You know, don't jump on stuff. You know, she was very measured and she wasn't reserved, but she wasn't going to humor you. She knew what was in Brown's best interest. And Brown's best interest was also her team's best interest.

[Imran Ahmed]

Mm. I mean, it does feel like, when you're talking about it, a different era.

[Mandy Leonard]

It was a completely different era. There was no social media, you know, when you were buying, you had a full 20 weeks. Now, that's ludicrous. You have drops, you, you have this, you have that there.

[Imran Ahmed]

20 weeks to sell.

[Mandy Leonard]

20 weeks to sell. And all the time it was, what's your percentages? What's your percentages? And I had this real push me pull you. Because as much as I wanted to have a good sell through, I still wanted the customers to have this great stuff. I hated selling house, actually. I wanted the customers to enjoy the stuff. And I remember she was always repping, you know, so she loves Sonia. Rickie was a friend. Her daughter married her, Mrs. Burstein's son. And when all the Brown staff were in Paris buying, we all crashed the Sonia Rickyel show. Literally. There must have been 80 people working for Browns, but quite a few buyers in Paris and they'd all be screaming at her. Mrs. Burstein's son Simon, on the door of the Rickyal show. Oh, can we come in? Driving him mad. And sure, he let us all in just to shut us up. But I remember buying Commes des Garcon one season and she came quite late in the, in the appointment to see how it was going and she was wearing, literally, can you imagine in the comm showroom what it was like? And Mrs. Burstyn walked in head to toe. Sonia, Ricky, El, even a Navy quilted bag with diamante Riccio written across it. It was quite sweet. And you know, we took her through what we'd done and the. There wasn't actually an affordable pant. And Mrs. Burstein always, you know, the way that she and her buyer Francoise would, you know, something always had to go with something. So obviously it's a multi brand store. Before Brown's there were only designer boutiques, so Saint Laurent shop, blah, blah, blah. But Browns was the first multi label, so that in itself was quite radical. But in the. I remember the pants, the, the cheapest pant at retail was I think £350. It was too expensive. And Mrs. Burstein, you know, said we need. Can you create a basic pant for us to sell? So someone bought the jacket, they might not want the matching outfit, but you always had to have the option that

[Susie Menkes]

they could have the whole outfit.

[Mandy Leonard]

And buying them was very in depth. You know, if you go on e commerce sites now, you know, I sometimes do this because I want something exclusive. If I like a top, I might put in that once by eight just to see how many they've got. And quite often they've only got one or two. But it was proper buying. Yeah, they covered a collection in depth. These designers were represented in Browns.

[Imran Ahmed]

Yeah, I was. You know, you raise an interesting point because the whole. I feel two things happening in multi brand right now. One is these big multi brand e commerce players, department stores have become so big, so driven by algorithms and kind of, you know, jumping on a bandwagon, buying everything. Like the. There's a lack of curation that's led to the kind of declining customer engagement.

[Mandy Leonard]

Curated, you know.

[Imran Ahmed]

Exactly.

[Mandy Leonard]

I mentioned to you before this talk that I was, you know, who was that chair by? You know, there were special sculptural pieces of furniture in the stores. The store interiors were beautifully designed and it was the whole bespoke nature of shopping. You know, when a customer came to Browns, intimidating. Like any fashion store, it can be very intimidating. But, you know, someone looked uncomfortable, you'd say, have you been to Brown's before? This is how we were trained. And if they hadn't, you'd say to them, oh, let me show you around. And no one disliked that. They all loved it. Of course, coming into your house, it was old school. It was like how a lot of Mrs. Burstein's era had been grown up and a new neighbor moves in the street. You make them a cake. When the customer leaves, you say goodbye. You don't just leave them to go out unrecognized. It was real old school. But. But the magic was the collision of the labels. So you had the radical disruptors of the new kids and you had these incredible luxurious brands as well.

[Imran Ahmed]

You know, I'm feeling this new energy in multi brand retail. So I'm wondering for all those independent retailers around the world, and there are so many, there's Naber in Vancouver and there's Venn Space in New York and, you know, there's all of these great stores. Like what. What lessons would you share with those independents from your time working?

[Mandy Leonard]

Yeah.

[Imran Ahmed]

First on the shop floor at Browns, then as a buyer, as Browns would.

[Mandy Leonard]

You were still on the shop floor as a buyer then, by the way, I was still a shop girl.

[Imran Ahmed]

Really?

[Mandy Leonard]

Yes.

[Business of Fashion Host]

So was that part of being a buyer?

[Imran Ahmed]

Yeah, because you had to be on

[Mandy Leonard]

the shop when you bought. You weren't buying for your customer, you were buying for each customer. So you knew the customers that were buying it, but you wanted to challenge them. You wanted it, you know, you wanted to push them a bit. If someone bought a piece of Catherine Hamnet one season or Gautier the next season, they might buy the matching, you know. And also we had a lot of young kids that came in Browns. It was a bit cult Browns. You know, we used to have people coming in just for Stephen Sprouse jeans, Dayglo jeans, and, you know, they were increased income so they could buy more expensive clothes as they progressed. But the worst thing you could do. This is what I was going to say about Mr. And Mrs. Burstein. You were very much taught that everything was common sense. So obviously.

[Imran Ahmed]

What do you mean everything was common sense?

[Mandy Leonard]

Well, every. I'm a bit like that too. It's like, you know, me and a friend were once joking about what should we call our company? It's obvious. We call the company. It's obvious because you use your wits, you use your common sense. And I think Mr. And Mrs. Burstyn were very like that and that's why they respected people's opinions. But the worst thing you can do is try and be all Things to all people in any aspect of life in it's the worst thing, you know, try and satisfy. I think it's always, you know, when somebody is going to Browns, they want fantasy, they want to enhance their lives. They're going in and they're seeing friends because they might go in there a lot to talk. No one's putting them under any pressure to buy. They can come and hang out. It's an old school service. We were interested in the customers. We weren't just treating them like a customer. There were some incredible characters, but, you know, they expected to be challenged by Browns. They expected to see the best of global fashion. And that's how Mrs. Burstein, you know, she was such a pioneer, she created that and it was her instinct and her brilliant team that she had around her.

[Imran Ahmed]

Right? So stay close to your customer. Don't try to be all things to all people, challenge your customer.

[Business of Fashion Host]

Those are all really important things.

[Mandy Leonard]

Confidence in what you're doing. What is your point of difference? You know, what is your point of difference? You know, Brown's was instinctive and it was new fashion. And for me, I love the, as I said, the collision of the stalwart fashion designers with the young emerging talent. I mean, you could say there was something for everybody. But, you know, people had a lot of confidence in Browns when they went to shop there. They trusted Browns. They didn't think, oh, that's ridiculous. They would, oh, if Browns have bought it, it's interesting, right?

[Imran Ahmed]

It was a real endorsement. You know, you said, Mrs. B, even in her final days, was still really engaged with fashion. What did she make of how the industry had changed?

[Mandy Leonard]

She recognized that it had changed a lot. I mean, I think it's a bit like, you know, couture, Fashion week and fashion week. Browns was old school. It was couture. And I think, you know, as soon as you run a business that's more like, you say, the algorithms and trying to be the, oh, that sells. Let's get that. Without the consideration, almost buying stuff like it's a commodity, but lovingly crafting an edit, you know, it's. That's not so interesting to her. And I think someone whose every fiber was operating like that could very quickly recognize, oh, this isn't for me. This isn't, you know, this isn't where I'm coming from. But, you know, she was still engaged and had an appetite for fashion, which I found incredible. You know, sometimes, you know, I grew up in an era when fashion wasn't a career, so I always thought I had to justify working in fashion and I think sometimes you felt it was too, a bit too dimensional as an industry. But, you know, in Brown's it was every piece of the industry coming together. I should also mention that, you know, there were a lot of Jewish people underpinning British fashion at the time. And I think that you said that

[Imran Ahmed]

Mr. And Mrs. B were like old Jewish grandparents to you, right?

[Mandy Leonard]

Yeah, I mean, it was a fondness, you know, and I think, you know, a lot of Jews, you know, come over from Eastern Europe and all they could do was sew, stitch, cut patterns that they'd self taught themselves and make cabinets. But what was great about the Jewish community was that they enabled a lot of the immigrant communities in their universe. And so they worked very closely with the Bangladeshi community, the Jamaican community, and, you know, because it was all sustainable and no one had any money, they were all living very poorly in the East End, it was so sustainable. So if somebody bought for a store this incredible quality from this culture back then, the prices were great because there was no wastage. So it was almost like sustainability before it had to be. That's how fashion was then. But I think, you know, especially in that 80s exhibition last year, there was a whole section of this exhibition which was Browns and it crossed over from these young club kids. You know, we had the clothes show, I think that was 86. There's no Fashion TV really now.

[Imran Ahmed]

I wish there was, but there was

[Mandy Leonard]

hardly any channels and everyone watched the clothes show and you know, you know, there was no social media, so club flyers, it was an art form. And you know, Dave Swindell, who was the going out editor at TimeOut, he went to clubs to review them, but he ended up taking photos. And if he hadn't taken his photos, there would be no documentation of that era. And I think again, what the Jews did, And I think Mrs. Burstein was bang in the middle of it all, was they created this high street and it was fashionable. But then they crossed west to the West End and that's where Mrs. Burstein and these characters come in. And there was an incredible group of men who started the model house group and what they did was they would, you know, speak to the government about exports, production and they promoted this new category of fashion and they helped export British fashion globally. There was this boom since the 60s, post war in the UK and they tapped into that and they again, you know, when they spoke to the government, they were almost like saying, look, you've got to. The seasonal couture calendar has to be within a week and a second later, you've got. London Fashion Week has started. And again, Mrs. Burstyn was a big pioneer in that as well, a part of that.

[Imran Ahmed]

So we've almost run out of time. I just. I wondered whether you had any final reflections on Mrs. B. I mean, if she was here, what would you. What would you say to her as a kind of thank you?

[Mandy Leonard]

I'd say thank you for these incredible friendships. You know, the people that I worked with back then, and none of them had surnames. It was Janet from the stockroom, Rose from Accounts, Ronnie did the Windows. A lot of people we know now, Sarah Richardson, an amazing stylist and editor, she was an assistant of the Windows at Browns. You know, it was. These are people I'm just as close to now. And we. We look back with such affection on that. On that Time of Our Lives, she brought together the hottest stylist. Kim Bowen was such a big stylist then. She supported Stephen Jones when he first started. He says to this day that Robert Forrest and her were just guardian angels and just bringing this incredible community together. It's very, very precious. It's an incredible network. And whatever area I work, not just in fashion, but in creative London, I've always got an incredible pool of people to call upon, which she brought together.

[Imran Ahmed]

Well, lucky you'd have been there during such a fertile time, as you said, for London and such an incredible store. You know, I was only there for the, like, the kind of final years of Browns, but even I. I remember just walking in there and having those moments.

[Mandy Leonard]

Giorgio Armani was very radical, you know, and I've had black cabs in London where the drivers said that they used to save money and go to Browns to buy an Armani leather jacket. You know, those were. When you went clubbing, someone would say, can I take your coat? No, it's my outfit. You kept your coat on in the club, but, you know, that was.

[Imran Ahmed]

Those are. Those are for fashion people that take fashion really seriously. But, no, thank you, Mandy, for your time and for sharing your memories. And of course, the fashion industry is really going to miss Mrs. B. But she's made such a indelible contribution to the industry that she's definitely a legend that will go down in history.

[Mandy Leonard]

Seeing some of the comments on social media, it's. It's. She would love it.

[Imran Ahmed]

Yeah. Well, long may her legacy last.

[Mandy Leonard]

Thank you. We're lost. It feels like we're going round in circles. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Will you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Mandy Leonard]

How is their signal out here?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.

[Mandy Leonard]

Actually, can you pull up the way to a T mobile store?

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got back. Bigger switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in Hermiston. Best Mobile Network Based on analysis by Ooklo BTES intelligence data second half of 2025 bigger network the combination of T mobiles and US cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.

[Imran Ahmed]

Acast Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's

[Susie Menkes]

a show that we recommend if you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time, listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews Akome, host of side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side. If you can't run a side hustle, you can't run a business. They share real tips and so I started connecting with all these people on LinkedIn and I saw Target supplier diversity was having office hours. Real advice. Procrastination is the easiest form of resistance and the actual strategies they use to turn their side hustle into their main hustle. Getting back in touch with your tangible cash and sitting down and learning to give your money a job like it changes something. Check outside Hustle Pro every week on your favorite podcast app and YouTube.

[Imran Ahmed]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.