Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini on the New Valentino

Summary

The Business of Fashion Podcast Summary Episode: Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini on the New Valentino
Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: The Business of Fashion

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Introduction and Background

The episode opens with Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of The Business of Fashion, welcoming listeners to the podcast. He sets the stage by recounting his summer experiences with Valentino's new creative director, Alessandro Michele, and Valentino's CEO, Jacopo Venturini. This meeting revealed the deep-rooted synergy between Michele and Venturini, a partnership that blossomed during their time at Gucci under CEO Marco Bizzari. Their collaborative efforts at Gucci notably quadrupled the brand's profits following a period of stagnation post-Tom Ford era.

Key Points:

• Partnership Origin: Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini's collaboration began at Gucci, leading to significant business growth.
• Shared Vision: Their partnership is characterized by a blend of creativity and business acumen, grounded in mutual respect and a passion for beauty.

Relationship Between Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini

The conversation delves into the unique professional and personal relationship between Michele and Venturini. They highlight the importance of trust, respect, and the absence of competition in their roles. Venturini emphasizes Michele's ability to bridge Valentino's rich heritage with a fresh, creative vision without overshadowing the brand's legacy.

Notable Quotes:

• Alessandro Michele: "I think that I polarize the audience in some ways... I'm happy with me because I'm free, and I think that it's something that I must preserve." (01:17)
• Jacopo Venturini: "With his enormous creativity, he was the right person to connect the heritage and the new vision for Valentino... we need to have someone that we trust." (01:32)

Repositioning Valentino as a Maison d'Accouture

Venturini discusses his strategic vision to reposition Valentino as a maison d'accouture. He elaborates on the significance of this transition, combining the notion of a "home" (maison) with the meticulous craftsmanship and intimate client relationships characteristic of haute couture. This repositioning aims to foster a strong internal culture focused on creativity and exceptional craftsmanship.

Key Points:

• Maison d'Accouture: Integrates the comfort and homeliness of maison with the detailed craftsmanship of haute couture.
• Cultural Foundation: Emphasizes building a robust company culture that supports creativity and strategic growth.

Notable Quote:

• Jacopo Venturini: "The culture is one of the most important thing... because we have a strong creativity, you can support the strategy, you can support the growth." (04:18)

The Creative Process and Initial Challenges

Michele shares his initial apprehensions upon taking on the role at Valentino, particularly regarding the grandeur of the atelier and the legacy he was stepping into. However, Venturini's support and the welcoming environment eased his transition. Michele likens the creative process at Valentino to nurturing a beautiful garden where unconventional ideas can flourish.

Key Points:

• Initial Intimidation: Michele felt stressed initially due to the scale and heritage of Valentino but found solace in Venturini's support.
• Creative Freedom: Emphasizes experimenting without boundaries, maintaining sincerity, and honoring the brand's legacy.

Notable Quotes:

• Alessandro Michele: "I'm trying to do this process in the most easy way, you know, without boundaries... It's always me in that place." (21:17)
• Jacopo Venturini: "Creativity is everywhere... it's very important to work with someone that you respect and that you value the opinion in order to improve every day." (05:46)

A Personal Connection to Valentino

Alessandro Michele reflects on his nostalgic memories of Valentino's legacy, recounting youthful experiences and the mythic stature of Valentino as a cultural icon in Rome. This personal connection fuels his passion and dedication to the brand, viewing Valentino not just as a fashion house but as a living, breathing home filled with history and art.

Key Points:

• Emotional Attachment: Michele views Valentino as a "special place with a special soul," deeply connected to his personal and professional identity.
• Heritage Respect: Maintains a reverence for Valentino's rich history while infusing it with contemporary creativity.

Notable Quote:

• Alessandro Michele: "It's like that you must care about this house, you know, this home... It's about trying to make a dream... about love." (13:09)

Navigating Public Perception and Personal Expression

Michele candidly discusses how his free-spirited nature and personal style sometimes polarize audiences. Despite facing criticism, he remains steadfast in preserving his individuality, seeing it as essential to his creative freedom.

Key Points:

• Public Polarization: Michele acknowledges that his unique style elicits strong reactions but he prioritizes his creative freedom.
• Sincerity: Emphasizes being genuine and enjoying personal expression without concern for external judgments.

Notable Quotes:

• Alessandro Michele: "I think that it's about being sincere. That's it. Enjoying the things and feeling yourself as a kid." (24:36)
• Alessandro Michele: "I'm happy with me because I'm free, and I think that it's something that I must preserve." (24:36)

Synergy and Future Prospects

The dialogue moves towards the future, with both Michele and Venturini expressing optimism about their ongoing collaboration. They anticipate the launch of their first haute couture collection and emphasize the importance of adaptability and continuous improvement in the ever-evolving fashion industry.

Key Points:

• Future Collections: Excitement about upcoming haute couture collections, blending traditional craftsmanship with innovative designs.
• Continuous Improvement: Commitment to questioning and refining strategies to align with market feedback and evolving trends.

Notable Quotes:

• Alessandro Michele: "I'm very positive because I'm working so well with Jacopo... It's a big challenge for me. So for me it's positive." (30:28)
• Jacopo Venturini: "We have a strategy that I think it's very clear of where we reposition the brand... and it helps you to make you think." (33:07)

Conclusion

The podcast episode concludes with Tim Blanks summarizing the essence of their discussion: the emotional bond between creativity and business within Valentino. Both Michele and Venturini reiterate the strength of their partnership and their shared vision to propel Valentino into a new era while honoring its storied past.

Final Quote:

• Tim Blanks: "The emotional connection between creativity and business. So there it is. You just, you just defined it for me. Thank you very much, both of you." (34:29)

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Additional Notes

• Exclusions: The summary omits sections related to advertisements, introductions, and outros that do not contribute to the core content of the discussion.
• Engagement: The summary captures the engaging and rich dialogue between Michele and Venturini, making it informative and accessible for listeners and non-listeners alike.
• Structure: Organized into clear sections for ease of reading and comprehension, each highlighting key aspects of the conversation with appropriate quotations and timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Jacopo Venturini]

Foreign.

[Imran Ahmed]

Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BoF podcast. It's Friday, December 20th. Over the summer, our editor at large, Tim Blanks and I both spent time with Valentino's new creative director, Alessandro Michele, to learn about his vision for the fabled Roman Couture house. One thing became really clear in those conversations. Alessandro was drawn to Valentino in part because it would reunite him with Valentino's CEO, Jacopo Venturini. Allesandro and Jacopo first made magic together at Gucci alongside CEO Marco Bizzari, when the luxury mega brand quadrupled its profits after a period of slow growth in the post Tom Ford era. There is a special symbiosis in their pursuit of creativity and business based on a strong emotional connection and a shared passion for creating beautiful things together. In their first ever joint talk, Alessandro and Jacopo joined Tim blanks at BoF Voices 2024 to share their plans for Valentino and go inside their unique creative process.

[Alessandro Michele]

I think that I polarize the audience in some ways. You know, there are people that hate me in a very strong way. I'm happy with me because I'm free, and I think that it's something that I must preserve.

[Jacopo Venturini]

With his enormous creativity, he was the right person to connect the heritage and the new vision for Valentino, it's very important to work with someone that you respect and that you value the opinion in order to improve every day, because we are human beings, so we need to have someone that we trust.

[Imran Ahmed]

Here are Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini with Tim blanks on the BoF podcast.

[Tim Blanks]

Welcome, Lissandro.

[Jacopo Venturini]

Good morning.

[Alessandro Michele]

Good morning. Hello, everybody.

[Tim Blanks]

Yesterday you made a personal appearance at Dover Street Market with the new collection. How did that go? First of all, I'm curious, who came.

[Jacopo Venturini]

France? Alessandro, you answer. I answer.

[Alessandro Michele]

Some friends.

[Jacopo Venturini]

And some clients.

[Alessandro Michele]

Some clients.

[Jacopo Venturini]

Some fans of Alessandro. A lot of fun, Alessandro.

[Tim Blanks]

I would say this is what I'm curious about. What are your fans saying when they show up at Dover street to meet you? Are they saying, we've missed you?

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah.

[Tim Blanks]

Welcome back. Thank God you're back.

[Alessandro Michele]

All these things.

[Tim Blanks]

All these things.

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, they put so many things in you. There were students from the San Martins. Yeah, it's beautiful because, I mean, I'm surrounded by love, so I'm lucky. Yeah. It's about, you know, sharing nice things and. Yeah. And I was with Jacopo, just chatting and I don't have so Much time when I'm there, because people want to take pictures and say nice things, so you have to give them something.

[Tim Blanks]

Is it common for the designer and the CEO to. To make appearances together like that? Is this a rare thing, would you say, when you're launching a collection?

[Alessandro Michele]

I think that sometimes happens, yeah.

[Jacopo Venturini]

I think sometimes I think it happens, yeah.

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, it happens. It's not rare. I'm not sure, though, when I say, I mean in the past I did it. I mean, in a different way maybe.

[Tim Blanks]

But no, what I'm getting at is that and what we're talking about here is the emotional connection between creativity and business in Valentino. Your particular connection does seem quite unusual, and I want to talk about how it came about. How long have you known each other?

[Jacopo Venturini]

I mean, we've known each other, I think, since 10 years, probably more.

[Alessandro Michele]

Almost.

[Jacopo Venturini]

Yeah, almost, yeah, 10 years. And I think that our relationship is special because Alessandro is special, and it's really based on trust, respect. When we talk about work, there is no competition between us. Of course, we do two different jobs, but in order to do our jobs in the right way, considering the way we want to do it. So with. And emotional involvement, which is very important for both of us. There are no, I would say overlapping in our job, but there are a lot of discussion between us. I mean, if I comment something or if you comment something about retail or something about production or something about something else, I take it always as something that we should work on because we should always improve. I mean, we are human beings and we make mistakes, and it's very important to work with someone that you respect and that you value the opinion in order to improve every day, because we are human beings, so we need to have someone that we trust.

[Tim Blanks]

Well, you work together at Gucci.

[Jacopo Venturini]

Yeah.

[Tim Blanks]

And you worked very, very well together at Gucci. Were you just looking for the opportunity to reconnect with Alessandro?

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah.

[Jacopo Venturini]

I mean, it happens all very naturally, I would say. Of course, when there was the opportunity to call Alessandro, I called Alessandro. I share my vision on Valentino with Alessandro, and I also investigate on how he was feeling about Valentino, if he really likes the brand. For me, it was something very natural because I thought that with his enormous creativity and with his eyes that always looks at things in a different way, he was the right person to connect the heritage and the new vision for Valentino without losing the heritage. What I think is very important is that, I mean, for me, Valentino is something very personal because I work there for. This is the third time That I come back in Valentino. So, you know, it's not something that happen so often. And it's also, in a way, a gift from life that you can go back to the same company and in different roles, and you arrive to the role of a CEO, where you can do what you think should be done according, of course, with the shareholder. And what was important for me, it was since the beginning to reposition Valentino as a maison d'accoutur because Valentino as born as a maison d'couture, and these are the roots. And being a maison d'couture means these are two worlds that are very important semantic meaning, because maison means home. And so it means a place where you feel comfortable to stay. But at the same time, couture means obsession for details, be able, I mean, to do exceptional craftsmanship, creativity at its maximum level and its maximum level of freedom. But at the same time, you know, couture means special relationship between a very intimate relationship between a premiere and a client, because the relationship that there is between the two is very intimate. And what I thought was that first of all, the repositioning of the maison, where it should be and where it should naturally be, and what it deserves to be as Amazon de couture. But then these two words are really key in a way to build a culture inside the company. And I really think that the culture is one of the most important thing, if not the most important thing that you should build in a company is the most difficult thing to build in a company, because it takes a lot of time. You do four step ahead and three step behind on a daily basis. So it's very stressful. But if you have a strong creativity, you can support the strategy, you can support the growth. Having said that, go back to your question. This was completely, let's say, embraced by Alessandro. And what was also important for me was that Valentino has a passion and heritage that is really obvious, I would say, but there is also a. A lot of hidden past, of past that is not so obvious. And since I worked with Alessandro so close in Gucci and I know his passion for what has been done before and for beautiful things, I thought that with his again, eyes that to me look at things in a way that I don't even know how he's able to do. But I'm always curious because there is a freedom in his eyes and the creativity in his eyes that is unbelievable. He always opened also my eyes. I thought that it was really the right person. I really believe that it was really the right person to be able to work with the heritage, putting himself, but being respectful of the heritage, which I think that for Amazon, like Valentino, it's very important because the respect of the heritage, I think it's something that. It's very important when you work in a brand that has an important history behind. Otherwise it's an empty box.

[Tim Blanks]

You said you don't know how Alessandro does it. Let's ask him how he does it. When you got the phone call from Jacopo, were you surprised?

[Alessandro Michele]

No, at all, because we spoke so many times. I mean, first of all, we are friends. I mean, I think that it's been very easy for me because it's when he leave Gucci and was a long time ago, I really understood what means when you lost someone that is very capable, you know, to feel the things, the creativity, the conversation. Yes. I mean, I was not really surprised because, I mean, I just. I already knew that the other creative director was leaving the company. I mean, leave the company. And I think that we dreamt together the same thing. So when he called me, yeah, I was in the middle of a kind of, you know, very special moment because I was trying to choose the right thing and the very end, like in a date, in a love affair, you know that you are trying to plan everything, the house, the furniture. Yeah. I mean, you change your mind and you think to sell the house and I sold it. No, I'm joking. I mean, but I was really happy because I was thinking, oh my gosh, how would be work with someone that you admire, but also you feel it as a good companion, partner in crime. That because we were usually, you know, talk about fashion things and. Yeah, I don't know, I was not surprised. I was just when you are dreaming about that cold maybe and it happened and. Yeah, I think it's about love, you know.

[Tim Blanks]

So would you say Valentino is kind of a love affair then?

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, I think so, yeah. I think that it's a special place with a special soul. Very different to an idea of a brand. It's like that you must care about this house, you know, this home that is a real home. It's the place where, you know the founder, but not just the founder, the person that loved so much to make that dream happen. I mean, everything is still there, you know, all the things, the clothes, the chairs.

[Tim Blanks]

It's amazing.

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, it's so true. I mean, you really feel it. It's not about, you know, suppliers, factory. It's about trying to make a dream try to something about love. And so I like the feeling that you find inside.

[Tim Blanks]

Was it at all intimidating to move into Valentino's house at the beginning?

[Alessandro Michele]

Yes. I was very stressed when I came the first time. I mean, I was very happy because I was with him, but happy in the way that I felt very protected. He did everything for me. Like, I mean, I'm living in Rome and he's living in Milan and he came for a month and a half, almost two. Yeah, no, that makes a much difference. I'm not that good with the time, but yes, maybe two months just for joking and. But it's been. I mean, it's such a beautiful time, you know, because we had the opportunity to really chat and plan everything and work. Work, yeah, that. It's the translation of a good way to work is to live, you know, to have a nice day with the right person, with the. So, yes, I mean, at the beginning I was very intimidated about the idea that I had on my. I mean, on the second floor also all the tailors and I mean, this. I think 85 people almost, which you never.

[Tim Blanks]

You'd never had that before?

[Alessandro Michele]

No.

[Tim Blanks]

You'd never had an atelier before?

[Alessandro Michele]

Never. I had something in Rome for special project, you know, all that amazing dress that we did. But it's different, you know, I mean, this place has like a heart that didn't stop. Never. Sometimes you feel that you are one of the people that try to work with them. I mean, they stronger than you. You feel it. I mean, but not because it's not about, you know, who is the boss. It's about the heritage that they are keeping and the things that they sold. It's a part of might of Italian fashion. So, yes, I felt in another place. I mean, I was not in a brand, you know, I was like getting inside a gate that I knew from my childhood. I mean, I passed by a million times with my parents, my dad going to Spanish Taps and Via de Condotti or. Yeah, there was like a place.

[Tim Blanks]

You know, I love the story you tell about seeing Valentino and Giametti, his partner going to. You assumed they were going to check out McDonald's the day that it opened in Rome. I love the idea of those two immaculate visions of extraordinary. I don't even know how you describe them. Masculinity. Going to McDonald's for a burger.

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, they were with a few of the little dogs. I think they were just curious, probably, or they were getting out from the office, the building. I don't know. I mean, I was like a Teenager. And I had this girlfriend at that time that she loved to go there because it was the first McDonald's that. The Italian McDonald's, you know. So it was like the temple of teenager. And I mean, very different for me because I hated that place. I can say, yeah, I didn't eat nothing at that time. Yeah. And I saw these two incredible people. Yeah. So chic, so different, you know, but I think very curious and fun. And I think that they bought just someone from, for them french fries or something like this. And someone told me, because I saw both of them from the back and a friend of mine, he told me, oh, He's Messiah. Valentino, Mr. Valentino. And I was, oh, that's incredible. I mean, I was thinking that God doesn't really walk in the street, you know. So, yeah, I mean, it's almost the metaphysical idea that I have of Rome. You know, there is a city where you can see very strange things. You have the Pope, you have Valentino.

[Tim Blanks]

The President.

[Alessandro Michele]

The President.

[Tim Blanks]

And you have Valentino.

[Alessandro Michele]

Valentino. And yeah, I mean, years and years ago there were also many directors. They were like gods, like Federico Fellini, Luchino Visconti and many, many, many Antonion. Yeah, but full of artists. I think the time when Valentino started was really like very interesting place, you know, full of interesting people.

[Imran Ahmed]

We'll be right back with more on the BoF podcast.

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[Alessandro Michele]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Alessandro Michele]

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[Jacopo Venturini]

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[Alessandro Michele]

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[Jacopo Venturini]

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[Tim Blanks]

Now that you're embedded, you've settled into the house, what is your feeling about it now? It's yours now. How do you feel about it? The legacy that Jacopo is talking about, the heritage, but also your eyes. He said he doesn't know how you do it. You look at something and you translate it into your language. So how is that going?

[Alessandro Michele]

I'm trying to do this process in the most easy way, you know, without boundaries, without. I try to feel not, you know, the power of the heritage, of the brand, of the archive. I try to be a friend of this amount of things. I try to be gentle. And my position is always, you know, to bring me in that place. It's always me in that place. It's not my place, you know, it's me walking in that place that is, in a way, changing as something very familiar. But yeah, it's like half and half.

[Tim Blanks]

You know, you feel like an eternal visitor then in a way.

[Alessandro Michele]

Yeah, I mean, I think that is a good position, you know, because you can discover many things. It's like that you have more feed, you know, I don't know, maybe one time we were talking about it with Jacopo because we share many things and I was thinking maybe there's gonna be a time that is gonna look more me than Valentino. Probably. I don't know. I think that I like the ambiguity of the things, you know, I prefer to be in between to make the people crazy. Like, oh, is him doing things? It's not Valentino, it's Valentino. There is always, you know, a conversation. And yes, it's a strong conversation because I think that me and him and with Jacopo, I mean, we have a strong vision. So, yeah, it's such a big thing. Always.

[Tim Blanks]

Do you know when you say it will look more like me than Valentino, what do you look like then? What does that look like?

[Alessandro Michele]

I don't know. I mean that I think that I polarize the audience in some ways, you know, There are people that hate me in a very strong way, an aggressive way. And it's so fun, you know, Because, I mean, I don't care. No, I don't care at all. Because I'm too old, you know, to care about all these stupid things, you know, it's like. I mean, yesterday I was looking on Instagram, there was a picture of me just walking in the street, because I was. I mean, I finished work and I was just looking in a window of a shop. Yes. I had like a straw shopping, a crocodile bag, maybe a pair of Crocs, I can't remember. I have like a tapestry jacket. I mean, yes, maybe things that didn't really talk the same language, you know, And I was just relaxed and I mean, I didn't imagine. I mean, it's something that happened very often and people were like, why he pretend to go, why he's wearing the straw bag? It's winter. I mean, it's. No. So just to say that it's a crazy word, you know, Word. And I mean, there are many people that maybe share the same thing. That being me, I think that. I don't know, I mean, maybe you should talk with my therapist instead of me. I mean, I don't know. I know that I.

[Tim Blanks]

She's very happy with you.

[Alessandro Michele]

She's very happy with me. She's very happy with me for many reasons. I'm happy with me because I'm free. And I think that it's something that I must preserve. And I feel really bad for the people that are so aggressive in front of the freedom of someone else. I think that is so. I don't know, not human, you know, because it means that you have something in your life that is not really working well. But by the way, getting back to your question, being me, it's more about being sincere. That's it. Enjoying the things and feeling yourself as a kid.

[Tim Blanks]

Easy, Jacopo. Working with Alessandro, has that experience changed you or have you changed him? Have you changed each other?

[Jacopo Venturini]

I don't know. You should ask Alessandro if I have any influence. Of course, it's not really working with him, but knowing him that has changed me, because he's a very free person and he's always in a good mood, which is something that I'm not. So. But with him, I'm always in a good mood. Then it's easy to make me. It's not easy, but I mean, I don't always start the day in a good mood. He always in a good mood. To me, it's Something very important. And then he's really, I mean, he doesn't really care about, as he was saying, doesn't really care about the judge of the other people. And I think that what he just said, it's really the most important thing that really also influenced me, the fact that if someone is judging you for the way you are, you shouldn't get this bad influence, should not really care about that, because there is someone else in front of you that has something to deal with and is not able to do it. And I think that this knowing him was very important for me working with him. I have a lot of respect for creativity. Creativity is everywhere, I would say, in everything that we do. I can be creative also in my job, but there is a level of creativity that to me is the genius creativity, which belongs to really very few people. And I think that Alessandro is one of the few people that has this genius creativity. I really admire that because it starts from a real freedom. And when I say that his eyes look at things in a way that always surprised me, it's because I think that again, his eyes that starts from that as a vision of things that always open also eyes of someone else. In a way. You always see things in a very interesting way. And I've always been in my job, I mean, in my previous job it was merchandising that I have not lost right now, because I'm still supervising merchandising. I'm GMM at interim, but I have very good people in merchandising working on the collection. But say that the maximum expression of working with a creative has been with Alessandro, because his aesthetic is an aesthetic that is very peculiar. And you really have to understand that. And in order to understand that, you have to be very humble and you have to. To ask also questions and to try to understand. Then there is this connection between us. Sometimes I don't even have to ask him, because I understand it. But I mean, my job is really to bring this very high energy that there is in the creative process, which is a fool generator. I mean, it's a fool. It's an energy. It's a very big, big energy for me. It's an incredible energy. And to bring this energy until the client advisor and until our clients. That's why I was saying that our company is really human centric and creativity centric, because there is a big organization that should be in the back end and nobody should see it, but that allows this creativity, this energy, these ideas translated into the real world without losing any single piece of this energy and this creativity.

[Tim Blanks]

We could call it synergy as well. Between the two of you, what do you expect from this synergy in the future? What can we expect from this synergy in the future? What have you got planned, in other words? We've got your first haute couture collection coming up.

[Alessandro Michele]

I'm not really well, I mean, so good to plan things. I don't plan that much, but I'm positive because I'm working so well with Jacopo in the company. It's a big challenge for me. So for me it's positive. When I have to experiment different things, as you said, like the couture, I like when I feel myself as a guest experimenting things that maybe are a little bit different. I mean, I'm very positive because it's the right environment to make beautiful things. And as Jacopo said, I mean before, it's a mutual thing. I mean, I feel very protect. I know that I can call him every time I want just to be aligned, to share things. We are building everything from the stomach, you know what I mean? So that's why I was saying, I mean planning and not planning, because I mean, I'm understanding that, you know, you cannot really plan in fashion. And what is happening, you know, outside in the business, it's that they thought that they could plant everything that you cannot. So I would say that I feel myself like in a little beautiful garden. I'm going to put in the middle of this garden, I think the most exotic plant that is going to be the couture that I didn't do never in my life. And I'm happy. And I think that it's an easy thing, you know, to say that when you are in the right place with the right people, it's easier. It's hard because this job is hard. You can do it without being like exhausted because it's exhausting. I mean, you are with your job every day, every minute, in your bed, during breakfast, after breakfast. Yeah. You're talking with your boyfriend and you're thinking about job. You're trying to get connected with other people. But if you are in the middle of something. Yeah, it's a lot of things, but I'm very positive and I'm happy. You know, I would say that I hope that nothing change.

[Tim Blanks]

So do I. Yeah.

[Jacopo Venturini]

Can I add something, Tim? Sorry. I think that, I mean, I totally agree with Alessandro, of course. I mean, we have a strategy that I think it's very clear of where we reposition the brand and where we would like to go and which are our value, which I think are again, very important because they build the culture. But at the same time, I think that what Alessandro said it, it's very true because we ask ourselves questions on a daily basis. So I think then in the contemporary world, I don't know, probably even in the past, you have to ask yourself question every day. You have to put under discussion what you are doing on a daily basis. And I think that this is not a weak point, but I think it's just the reality of being human being that are aware of the fact that things change, things evolve. And you need to get the feedback of the market and then use it in the way you think it deserves to be used. But it helps you to make you think, you know. So that, that was within a framework.

[Tim Blanks]

Yeah, that was the subject of our talk. The emotional connection between creativity and business. So there it is. You just, you just defined it for me. Thank you very much, both of you.

[Imran Ahmed]

The BoF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric bre.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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