← The Business of Fashion Podcast
The Business of Fashion Podcast
An Act of Love: Securing Franca Sozzani’s Legacy
00:36:57
Francesco Carrozini, son of the former Vogue Italia editor explains how her passing sparked a broader purpose — from a documentary on her life to the Franca Fund for preventive genomics.
Loading summary
Transcript97 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is sponsored by the Look, a new series from one of my favorite podcasts, imo with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. On the Look, Michelle Obama opens up for the first time about her journey as a defining force in style both within and beyond the White House. Through candid, intimate conversations with the creative minds behind her hair, makeup and wardrobe. Along with fashion insiders and influential voices such as Jane Fonda, Nina Garcia, Bethann Hardison, Elaine Welleroff, and Jenna Lyons, she reveals how she and her team transformed the scrutiny of her public image into a celebration of self expression, inclusion and impact. A companion to her book the look, the series celebrates how her authenticity and legacy of representation not only defined her approach to style, but continues shaping the social and political conversation about who gets to be seen and how. You can hear the look series by searching for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [01:01]
B
Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BoF podcast. It's Friday, November 28th. Francesco Carrazzini grew up in the rarefied world of Vogue Italia, not just observing it, but living it every day. As the son of Franca Sozzani, the magazine's legendary editor in chief, Fashion wasn't just part of his surroundings. It was a language he was exposed to every day. He became a photographer and filmmaker, but it was only later that he turned the camera towards the most personal and complicated subject in his life, his relationship with his mother. The documentary Chaos and Creation premiered in Venice just before her passing in 2016 following a battle with lung cancer.
- [01:49]
A
When I asked her to take a look at at the first cut of that, she said, this is the most mediocre thing I've ever seen. Do yourself a favor, find a point of view. And that opened my eyes not only on the film, but in general life, you know, on the importance of that lesson, which is always try and find a point of view. Don't do anything without that. In a regular relationship between mother and son, that might have been something excruciating in ours wasn't because we were so on the same level. We treated each other like friends.
- [02:22]
B
Since Franca's passing, Francesco has been working to transform her memory into meaning. He co founded the Franca Fund for Preventive Genomics, an initiative advancing genomic screening to prevent the disease that took his mother's life. We met in Doha, Qatar, where last weekend he hosted the fund's first ever gala and we spoke about what it means to honor someone not just by preserving their legacy but by evolving it. Here's Francesco carozzini on the BoF podcast. Good morning, Francesco.
- [02:55]
A
Good morning.
- [02:56]
B
How are you?
- [02:57]
A
I'm good.
- [02:58]
B
We are in Doha in Qatar for the first Franca Fund gala. And we'll get to that in a minute. And the whole reason why the, you know, you're here and we're having this conversation, but as always, I want to start with a little bit of history. And you had the very unusual privilege of growing up in the world of Italian Vogue with your mother. Do you want. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what that was? That was like. I can't even imagine what that was like.
- [03:33]
A
Well, you know, for so long, everything was quite normal for me. You know, I would go to the offices, I would make my own magazine because I sold them. Like, you know, it was the time before computer, computers, so they were cutting up pictures, and there was spray glue, which was probably like cancerogenic, and, you know, that's how magazines were made. And I would go and do the same. And that was like this big extended family, because my mother's job was her life. And so I don't remember my mother separately from work, you know, not working. Everything was always about work, but she included me. So it was this, you know, truly magical world in a way, when I look back at it. But for me, very normal. So normal that when at school, they asked me what my mother did, I said, she sells newspapers. Because I. I really had no idea until I was like, 8 or 9 what she really did. And then obviously, you know. Yeah, when Naomi Campbell came to pick me up at school, which is a, you know, famous story that a lot of people refer to, and I left because she was late. Then the day after, you know, people are like, who are you? So that.
- [04:49]
B
So what. What was the moment when you figured out not just what your mother did, but what she represented in culture? I mean, I guess you're right. When you're growing up, you know, your parent is your parent, their job is their job, and everything seems totally normal. But there must have been a time when you're like, oh, okay, this is. This is perhaps a little bigger or different than I understood.
- [05:13]
A
Yeah, it was, you know, it was when the outside world started to ask me questions about it or making me notice that it wasn't normal, that my life was what it was, you know, that it wasn't normal at 10 years old to be at Madonna's birthday, you know, so that was sort of like something for a while. I was. I don't want to say ashamed of, but I was like, I didn't know really how to deal with it because it was just from. Seen from the outside, it was just, you know, privilege and sort of like this, you know, I was lucky to be in it, which is true. Later I really understood, I think I was a teen where I understood that not only our life was quite extraordinary, but that she did something that actually mattered. That, you know, I started understanding what vision was, what discovering talent was, what, you know, all the things that she was good at. So I think that happened more in my teens when I understood that she actually was doing something quite special and truly like she wasn't when I was 10, who she became later. So I sort of followed that evolution through my teens and early 20s as she became more and more influential, more and more powerful, and took on more and more responsibility because she became editorial director of itenko. So, yeah, was a little later then.
- [06:31]
B
I can imagine that when you have this parent that's so successful and whose career is so closely intertwined with their life that it's hard to kind of carve out your own identity and your own choices in your own career. Initially you pursued photography, right?
- [06:52]
A
Yeah, for a while.
- [06:54]
B
And that was, would you say, influenced by the fact that you grew up around like, Peter Lindbergh and Steven Meisel and all these guys?
- [07:02]
A
Yeah, I really loved photography. I soon understood it wasn't my dream. Yeah, it was many of my friends dreams because I had a lot of friends that did that or. Or anyway, something similar in the world, especially of publishing, of fashion and art. And I used it. I used it because it was a tool for me to, first of all, travel, learn, meet people. But also now that I'm moved into directing and I'm doing, you know, let's say I have to deal with bigger productions, more people. It was really a big school of just like dealing with people, of dealing with responsibility, dealing with timelines, dealing with budgets, and it was amazing. And then when, you know, again, I had like, I think about 15 years of that between assisting, where I did assist a bunch of amazing photographers and was on set with, you know, Bruce and Peter and. And many others and, you know, Deborah Turbeville, I took an amazing trip with her to Russia and all that led to, why don't I just take my own pictures? And portraiture was what I found interesting. I never loved clothes and so I never really focused on the fashion aspect of it, but it was always more like portraiture and celebrity. And then when Covid happened and all of our lives sort of took a break. I was 38, and I was like, maybe this is the time where I really dive into what I'm dreaming of, what I've always dreamed of. And that's when I started. You know, I had already made the documentary about.
- [08:45]
B
Yeah, you and I met before COVID I mean, the last time I think that we properly saw each other was when we did a little screening of the film you made about your mom. Yeah, I remember that film being so moving because initially it felt like it was a film about your mother, but then it really became a film about your relationship with your mother. Right at that time, did you know she was ill?
- [09:11]
A
So I started making the film four years before she died. And it was something that. I don't know, it had. I had an instinct about wanting to, you know, my father had died. And the film starts with me saying my father died, and I turned to what was left of my parents, which was my mom. And I never really had a very deep relationship with my dad because he wasn't around and they were not together. So it started as almost like an, you know, just a need. It wasn't never planned to be like a film and, you know, and all that.
- [09:43]
B
And it was more to just explore.
- [09:45]
A
Explore. Yeah. I took a camera, I just started interviewing her, asking her questions. And then one day I found this 8 millimeter footage, which you can see in the film, of her as a. As a young girl. And that sort of led to me starting, you know, like, well, maybe I'll start making something about her. And in fact, to your question, it became a film about her. And. And this is one of the best stories I have about it, is when I asked her to take a look at the first cut of that, she said, this is the most mediocre thing I've ever seen. Do yourself a favor. Find a point of view. And that opened my eyes not only on the film, but in general in life, on the importance of that lesson, which is always try and find a point of view. Don't do anything without that. In a regular relationship between mother and son, that might have been something excruciating in ours wasn't because we were, you know, we were so on the same level. We were all so on the. You know, we treated each other like friends. And so I was like, yeah, maybe she's right. You know, Let me take a look. And at the time, I had started working with this producer who's an amazing filmmaker, and she was nominated for an academy, and her name is Amy Berg. And she's. She became my producer. And she was one of the few people who said, her and Baz Lman, actually, who took a look at that cut and said, well, there's one thing missing in this film, and it's you. And that's how we sort of, like, restarted the process. And then I understood that that was what the film was about. Now, when I did finish that cut, which was sort of like the final film, she called me and said, I need to see you. And I went to Milan and she said, you know, I don't want to make it too dramatic, but I think I'm dying. Yeah.
- [11:36]
B
Really?
- [11:36]
A
Yeah.
- [11:37]
B
Do you remember in that moment, your reaction?
- [11:41]
A
Yeah, I do. I. I was in the same place where this is quite incredible, where I got the news that my dad was sick, same place. And obviously I panicked. I was like, what do you mean? I just lost my dad four years ago. You know, well, they found this thing, and, you know, it's not looking good and blah, blah. So the rush of finishing the film, we sold it to Netflix, we got it into Venice, and then the movie is. Is one thing, and what you see is one thing, but the actual big stories, those last months, you know, of our relationship finishing the film and then screening it in Venice, and then all of a sudden, the lights turn on and everyone's crying because some people know, some people don't. But me and her look at each other and we're like, this is sort of like our last big moment together.
- [12:36]
B
That's quite beautiful to have that time to work on something so personal together with your mom right at the end of her life.
- [12:46]
A
Yeah, very lucky.
- [12:48]
B
I want to go back briefly to the feedback she gave you, because I spent some time with your mom. Not tons of time, actually. One of the last times I interviewed her was in this region in Dubai, like maybe in 2017, 2016. You know, those kinds of editors or personalities, there's not that many of them left in our industry, the ones who are so unflinchingly direct. You know, we're in this climate now where it's very hard to give feedback, to be, you know, so just direct about things. Was she always like that with you? Like, leaving aside the film stuff and finding a point of view, like, what was it like to grow up with that kind of directness?
- [13:32]
A
You know, I appreciate it because ultimately it's. You know, we're all here to learn. And she really never meant it as a judgment. It was never meant. You know, there's. There's a judgy way to be direct. And there's a way where it's like, I'm saying it for you because that's what I think. And you can disagree or agree, but I'm trying to help you. You know, I think that the same relationship she had with me, she had with all her photographers too. You know, they all. I don't have them all in the film because I couldn't, you know, but all of the interviews say the same thing. You know, your mom gave me freedom, but challenged me. And whenever I was bringing back something she didn't like, she'd be like, listen, this is not good enough for you. You're just better than this.
- [14:17]
B
I like the words this is not good enough for you. Right. Because that, that in a way says, I know that you have more in you. Yeah, right. So it's in a way being direct and also saying you have the ability to do better. Right.
- [14:32]
A
And by saying that, you're opening up something that people might not believe in enough.
- [14:36]
B
Yeah.
- [14:37]
A
You see what I'm saying? That's, that's what I think it's quite extraordinary about the, the mentorship she gave me and everyone else.
- [14:46]
B
So you finish the film, you screen it in Venice, and it was just shortly thereafter that your.
- [14:51]
A
She died.
- [14:51]
B
Two months after mother passed away, three months after. Looking back now at that time, what memories do you have of the final months of her life?
- [15:02]
A
So I want to say, apart from like seeing her, you know, at the very end in the hospital where she was my last memory with her, it's truly that moment which I always say, one day I'd love to make a film about this, you know, which is, which has something to do with the film. But it was more, it would be more the process of what this meant in the last months of her life. Finishing a film, you know, trying to close out and say goodbye, you know. But the last memory I have, really, maybe because I want to, not because it's what's in my, you know, in my camera roll. It's the moment where the lights turned on and we looked at each other. Cuz I, I know at the screening, at the screening, yeah, she hadn't seen the final cut. So she said after that comment two years before, she said, I don't want to see it. I know you'll do great. I want to see it at the festival. And there was just like approval, love. It was a goodbye. It was, you know, in that look there was like so, so much. And I think that really was one of the reasons why I was able to accept, you know, because there are people that never accept the death of a parent or the death of a dear, you know, of a person dear to them. I literally closed my circle with her that night.
- [16:28]
B
That's so beautiful. So in a way, you'd had this moment of closure with her. You'd unknowingly worked on this film that would end up being a forever document of her, but also your relationship. When she passed, what did you start thinking about in terms of preserving her legacy beyond the film?
- [16:53]
A
I felt right away that our lives were so intertwined that there was no way I was gonna be like, okay, this is it. And now I'm moving on. And, you know, and, you know, I'll have just my. Like, I always want. I always had the desire since the first months to take her with me. But I was thinking about it this morning as I, you know, prepare for this day and for the speech tonight and everything. And I. I think it also has to do with the fact that I think legacy, you know, memory and legacy offer get often get confused and just like, keep remembering. Someone feels like you're car their legacy, but it's not, you know, I really wanted something meaningful, an act of love, taking something personal and making collective. You know, I always had these sort of, like, thoughts with her. And when she died, I had met just before just because I was desperate and, you know, I was like, what. What can I do to save her? You know, I had met this scientist, Dr. Green, at Harvard, and I soon became so fascinated by genomics and the field, which 10 years ago was like, you know, way behind where it is now. And very quickly I decided that that could have been something that had all the, you know, all the elements, the pioneering element, you know, the collective, you know, the preventive element. All the sort of things that I was interested in that I thought kind of came together with my story and my mom's story and all of that. And I started very soon to say, why don't we do something that carries her legacy in science? You know, and people, everyone's like, what, what, what are you doing? Why genomics? Like, there's so many other things, like why you.
- [18:39]
B
You know, so why genomics? Because. And maybe tell us a little bit about the very rare form of cancer, lung cancer that your mother died from. It was a genetic thing.
- [18:48]
A
So there's no answer yet, you know, not yet. Meaning there's no answer on her type of cancer. It could be a genetic mutation, so it could be nurture. Or nature? We don't know. You know, her specific answer is associated with asbestos. So she lived in a period where asbestos was used, common, you know, everywhere. 60s, 70s, you know, so we. We don't truly know. But what was clear to me is that she belonged to a generation that thought that doctors are someone you go to when you're sick, and. And it's not the case. You know, doctors are people you go to to keep healthy, especially with the science we have right now. Obviously, when something happens like cancer. Sure. But I'm saying there's so much you can do preventively. And what is the. Obviously, apart from, you know, screenings and, you know, all the things that people do, what's the deepest form of, you know, reading your information and trying to understand who you are and what your risks are? That's all in genomics, which is a field that in 10 years has been, you know, growing exponentially.
- [19:56]
B
So what have you learned about genomics? Like, tell us what it is for the layperson who has not met with scientists from Harvard.
- [20:04]
A
Yeah, it's, you know, the very simple notion of reading the information that is in your DNA, that is your genome, which has. Now we're reading 5,500 genes about. We're able to read, but there's many more and sort of like. Like finding out what mutations expose you to a risk. Okay. Now, of these mutations that expose you to a risk, there's two types. A type that is not actionable yet. There's no cure. Let's say Alzheimer, let's say Huntington's, let's say all these things. And then there are many, many, many, many that are actionable conditions that you hear about a kid dying on a basketball court when he's seven because he had a heart attack. Well, he had a condition, most likely that would have been prevented with an operation if you knew and no one did anything about, because it's not. It doesn't go through general screenings. It's not.
- [20:59]
B
So the principle is basically that you have this kind of genomic scan and you can get a view of a bunch of things for which there may be no cure currently. But there's certain things for which if you do the scan early on in your life, and it can be, you know, various issues can be identified, you can take action to prevent them from losing your.
- [21:24]
A
Yeah. Using your life or having a condition that will, you know, mark your life. And another thing that is quite interesting is because we're focusing specifically on newborns right now. Parents find out they have conditions based on the genome of their newborns because obviously like mutations are carried. So it's just like the power of knowledge. Basically it's the, the most simple notion, you know, we can think of is knowing is power. You know, knowledge is power.
- [21:54]
B
And so why is the focus on newborns?
- [21:58]
A
Well, just because they have more time ahead and so studies can track how these mutations manifest and you know, it's just a more complete way of studying. And then the other thing is because if we catch things when they're very young, we can obviously save their Life. Obviously a 40 year old can have numerous risks, but it's different than catching them when someone's six months old and you'll know that maybe a vitamin supplement could prevent them from becoming blind or, you know, just there's so many of these things.
- [22:29]
B
So I guess that brings us to coming up with the insight around genomics and it could have been the kind of thing that maybe would have saved your mother's life or, you know, extended her life in some way. How did you take that kernel of an idea and some of these insights from Dr. Green and turn them into the initiative around. It's called the Franca Fund for Preventive Genomics.
- [22:56]
A
Yes. So first of all, I did it. You know, Robert and I sat many, many times and we tried to find, you know, because genomics is such a wild field and you know, people are not, as you say, have a bit of a hard time wrapping their head around all the aspects. And so we tried first of all to narrow it down. And so Robert had already started a study on newborns and he was the first in the world to study newborns. And I supported his study to sort of be a pioneer with him in what he was doing. These studies started popping up all over the world. There's over 30 now and there's a consortium of all these studies which is pushing genomics further and further and further. Obviously the science is accelerating so fast. We can now edit our genome. We can, you know, there's gene therapy which is now saving. We have a child in, you know, associated to our program whose literally life has been saved with gene therapy. It's very expensive and you know, some are still in trial, some are not. But again, it's a field that is moving so fast that we want it to be sort of like the first and with this big dream of, you know, having any, every and any newborn all over tested for as many conditions as possible in order to prevent them from getting sick. And this is because of the rules and regulation, because of the ethics and the morals around it. Because when you do a test, you have to make sure, you know, you tell the parents if this is comprehensive in the sense that you're telling them what can be done and what can't be done, or you just want to tell them what can be done. And so there's so many aspects of it that every country has different, you know, insurance discrimination, you know, in America is a big issue where if you were exposed to certain risks, you would, you know, have a hard time being insured. So there's so many. So many aspects. But, you know, the big vision and the big dream is, is that is let's test any newborn for as many conditions as possible and save lives. That was, like, the big dream. That. That still is the big dream. And we're definitely much closer than we were 10 years ago.
- [25:06]
B
So what did it take to establish, like, an entity and raise money? I mean, that's what, basically, are you. You're trying to raise money now to, like, support this?
- [25:15]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:16]
B
How much money do you. Do you need to raise?
- [25:18]
A
Well, the way we do it is we raise money that keep Robert and all his team working comfortably. They write grants, then the NIH gives. So let's say I supported his study for a year and I spent a million dollars. He might have written two grants then and won them and got 30 million or 20 million from the NIH.
- [25:41]
B
So in a way, multiple way, totally.
- [25:44]
A
We're a multiplier. Me alone, I mean, I would have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to advance, you know, research in a meaningful way. This is just the best way to sort of, like, put him in the conditions to do what he does best. Tonight we're raising a lot, and that's gonna help him really get very, let's say, stabilized within. Within his research lab. And then, you know, that will generate more and more and more grants and. And will advance the field. I mean, in 10 years, the progress has been amazing. He's gonna speak tonight to it, but it's been, you know, I mean, I'm really, really proud of what's been. What's been done also, because it was just like, in the beginning, people were looking at us like, what do you want to do? Why do you want to test new birds? Oh, my God. There's. You can't do this. And now it's just, like, slowly becoming more and more common.
- [26:35]
B
So my sister's pediatric endocrinologist, she does a lot of work in diabetes, so I know how vital having that financial support is for her. To do her work. And then if she and her team, she can employ a team of people and they can apply for grants. Like, it really can be a multiplier. You can have so much impact. So that's. So then why a gala and why Qatar? Like, you know, there's. Well, yeah, there's so many galas. There's so many places in the world you could have chosen, like, to maybe tell us a bit of a. The backstory of why.
- [27:11]
A
Yeah, you know, the fundraising for, you know, especially for research is very, very tough. I've had the luck of having lots of support from the industry, from the fashion industry. One initiative I want to mention is I did with Martha Ortega, with Zara, Peter Lindbergh. There was a Peter Lindbergh sort of edition, T shirt, limited T shirt, sort of run they did. And all the money went to us, to the Franco fund. So we've done, like, things like this, but, like, to do something that, you know, was meaningful and that would allow us to really, you know, make a big step was necessary at this point, just to have, like, more stability. Because it's like, it's constant. You know, the threats to research are constant. Especially right now, where a study like ours, which has diversity as one of the focuses, cannot say it has a diversity in the title because of our president. So, you know, we would be shut down. So it's all just like, very, very.
- [28:13]
B
So you had to do it outside the U.S. you think, first gala?
- [28:17]
A
I think so. Because we live, you know, the political climate is. It's tough. And I'm doing it in America, despite the fact that I'm Italian. My mother was Italian, but, like, all I'm doing originates from Boston. So to do this and to do this in a big way, I've been talking to different people. And Her Excellency, Sheikha Mayasa, has always been a friend, and she was a friend of my mom. They had sort of like a. You know, we came to Qatar once to see a Damien Hirst show. Met in Milan. You know, they sort of, like, fostered this relationship quite a while ago now, probably 15 years ago. And we've always talked about doing something together. And literally, as we brainstorm, this idea came about. And just like. Because I know you're doing this thing for your mom. And so I was like, well, that would be amazing if we could tie it to the Fresh and Trust Arabia, which is getting more and more visibility.
- [29:16]
B
Because everyone's already here, right?
- [29:17]
A
And everyone is already here. And, you know, this is a region of the world. That is, you know, big on innovation and doing new things. And I was like, why don't we do it there's. And she loved the idea. And then I was like, okay, you and I could do it big, but if I ask Anna, we could do it bigger.
- [29:36]
B
And so, so how did, how did Anna get involved to make it bigger?
- [29:42]
A
I went to her and I said, look, it's very meaningful to me. It's. Whether that's family or friends, I don't like to ask anything of people. I really, I have a lot of pride in that. I'm not, you know, I just find it very hard. And I was like, you know, of course if you don't want to do it, it's fine, but this is. We could really, like, make a big step forward. And with no, you know, she didn't flinch. She said, yeah, I'll help you. What do I need to do?
- [30:07]
B
I said, it doesn't hurt that your mom and your mother in law were very good friends. Right. And so there's something beautiful about they.
- [30:16]
A
Became very good friends.
- [30:17]
B
Did they become.
- [30:18]
A
They studied each other at a distance for many years. Yeah.
- [30:22]
B
I guess when Vogue and Conde Nastra more divided up into different bits. Yeah, but at some point they became close, right?
- [30:30]
A
Yeah. But, you know, Anna went so many more times than I did to Milan when she was very sick. Like, she saw her last. I mean, she saw her after me because I was coming back to see her and sort of like two weeks before. And then Anna went the week after, and then I was coming back for Christmas not knowing, you know, what was the day she was gonna. And when I came back, she was already basically gone. So. No, she went back. She was a very good friend. She was very close to her in the last few years of her life. So, you know, it was just like, okay, we really put all our forces together and, and wanted to make sure we would get, you know, all the people, or at least not all because it's. It's hard. But a lot of the people that really loved my mother and that my mother supported or who supported my mother, and there's a bunch, you know, from Remoruffini to Pimcha Prada tonight to per Paolo Piccioli, you know, a lot of like, designers or company owners that had a relationship with her. And then we wanted to meet with like the local crowd and expose what we're doing, you know, to people in the region. We really wanted it to be like a global event. And the two of them obviously, you know, with their leverage In. In the different regions and in the different fields.
- [31:47]
B
Are you mean Her Excellency?
- [31:50]
A
Her Excellency, yeah.
- [31:52]
B
So what does good look like at the end of tonight? What are you hoping will come from the gala?
- [31:59]
A
Well, the plan is basically to make a big endowment to make this study advance much faster, to start a collaboration potentially in a study also here in Qatar with Robert's leadership and all the local scientists, because Qatar is big in genomics. It's very advanced country, as you know, on scientifically and on many other levels. And then to repeat this again and, you know, next time we do it, show what we've achieved and keep going. I mean, I would really like this to. To become my mother's legacy, but also my legacy, because I've. I've been so interested in this field and I've found what we do so rewarding that, you know, who knows, maybe one day. My son. I have no expectations of my son differently from a lot of parents. I think he should just be and do whatever he wants. But if he feels like this is something interesting to him, I'd love this to be continued. Because in 20 years, we'll be. God knows where we'll be. We'll probably be able to cure 100 times more conditions than we do right now.
- [33:07]
B
How old is your son?
- [33:08]
A
4.
- [33:08]
B
4. Has he had one of these scans?
- [33:10]
A
He did, yeah.
- [33:12]
B
Wow.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Both me and my wife before we had him, and then sort of to cross check what could be the risks.
- [33:19]
B
Yeah.
- [33:19]
A
And then he had one.
- [33:20]
B
Wow. It's a real gift that you're giving to people based on your own experience or Mom. It's a really, really beautiful.
- [33:29]
A
That's an act of love. I mean, she did. You know, I always believe you. You get remembered by what you do for others, not for what you do for yourself. And she's. I mean, I. I was on a set. I'm shooting a film in Rome right now. In fact, tonight I have to leave at 3am and go to set tomorrow morning. But these actress who has a small role in a film, Italian actress, comes to me and said, I have to tell you something. I went to a Prada show 15 years ago. I was so out of my league. I felt so embarrassed. And your mom saw me, had no idea who I was and made me feel comfortable. And I have stories like this about my mother that come to me all the time. And that's truly like. That's legacy, you know. Yeah, Vogue is great, but I think that's more important.
- [34:20]
B
So just to wrap things up the legacy of your mother is not just the work that you're doing, and it's also the impact she had on so many people's lives. What are the. You know, when you're hearing from all of these people who come up to you, what are the common themes of lessons are that your mother left for others?
- [34:41]
A
I think believing in yourself and your potential. And she always used to say, you know, when people feel insecure about their thing, you know, someone would go to her and say, I think this is a little strange. It's like, yeah, but if it's not strange, it's not new. If it's not new, it won't matter. Just dare, you know, be courageous. Believe in yourself. We all have a huge potential, all of us. It's that a lot of us don't find a way to express it. And she was the enabler for so many people to express their. Their potential, their creativity, their vision, because her vision was truly seeing in others what their talents were. I mean, she obviously was talented, but that's one of the things in the movie. I'm like, so you keep recognizing genius, but you're not a genius, you know? And she.
- [35:32]
B
Her genius was recognizing other people's genius.
- [35:35]
A
Well, first she says, who the fuck told you I'm not a genius? And then she says, but yes, that's what I do.
- [35:41]
B
Yeah.
- [35:41]
A
And then be generous, be generous, and enjoy it. Because I always remember when I was little and you asked me, how did that life feel? You know, I would be like, but this is amazing. Like, when I realized, like, we're with Sylvester Stallone one day, and then we're with Madonna the other night. And like, what is this? It's just like, enjoy it, because it can end tomorrow.
- [36:00]
B
And any personal thoughts you can share on grief and loss and particularly losing a parent.
- [36:10]
A
Yeah. I mean, it feels very unjust. But overall, for many people, life is unjust. Things happen that you have to reckon with. I feel, particularly with respect to losing a parent or losing someone you love. I feel what really matters, and you obviously don't know sometimes when you're gonna lose them, is to tell things to each other, to not hold back to. Even if it's something you, you know, you wouldn't want to say, say it. Because I think what made me feel so resolved about this loss was the ability to tell her everything I want, you know, to. To having been able to tell her everything I wanted to tell her through that film. Through that film. In my case, it was a film, but, you know, it could be a conversation you have. You know, we don't want to say things to our parents. We don't tell us things because it's, it's always such a complicated relationship, even if it's the most beautiful, you know. But I feel being able to sort of have that directness, that honesty when that moment comes, you know, I always hear so many people saying, ah, I wish I told them this. I wish I told her. I told her everything. I had to tell her. She knows it. And I don't know. I'm not a, you know, I'm an atheist. But I hope she's using. She's seeing what, what, what we're doing.
- [37:36]
B
I'm sure she is. Thank you, Francesco. Thank you very much and good luck with everything. It's really beautiful what you're doing.
- [37:43]
A
Thank you.
- [37:44]
B
The BOF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.
- [37:57]
A
Why choose a Sleep number? Smart bed? Can I make my site softer?
- [38:00]
B
Can I make my site firmer?
- [38:02]
A
Can we sleep cooler? Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night.
- [38:13]
B
It's the final days of our Black Friday sale.
- [38:16]
A
Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today. What if you could bleach and color your hair without damage with K18 molecular repair hair mask, you can have strong, soft bouncy hair and keep using the color bleach and heat. This isn't just a damage cover up, it's a deep damage fix. That's because patented K18 peptide repairs damage on the molecular level which is really really deep. So no matter what you do to your hair, K18 will be there to fix the damage. Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase with code podcast@k18hair.com.