Can a Shop Truly Be a “Third Place”?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Business of Fashion Podcast

Episode: Can a Shop Truly Be a “Third Place”?

Release Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Brian Baskin (Executive Editor), Sheena Butler-Young (Senior Correspondent)
Guest: Kat Chen (BoF Retail Editor)

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Overview

This episode explores the evolving concept of the "third place"—a term popularized by sociologist Ray Oldenburg to describe social gathering spots outside of home and work—and whether contemporary retail environments can truly fulfill this role. The hosts and Kat Chen delve into how brands attempt to foster community, the challenges of authentic engagement in commerce-driven spaces, and what truly makes a space a “third place” in today’s landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the “Third Place”

• Ray Oldenburg’s original conception of a third place is “a social place where people can simply hang out”—think local bars, barber shops, libraries, and youth centers ([01:18]).
• These places are primarily for socializing, with commerce being incidental—not the main goal.
• The decline of such spaces over the decades underpins retailers' current attempts to recreate them.

“A third place has a very simple definition. It is a place that is not the home, the first place, and not work or school the second place, a third place is a social place where people can simply hang out.”
— Kat Chen, [01:32]

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2. Retailers’ Interpretation & Execution of the “Third Place”

• Brands are incorporating literal elements—seating areas, food & beverage, and lounge spaces—to encourage lingering, loyalty, and word of mouth ([02:25]).
• The mindset has shifted: food and beverage offerings aren’t just amenities but tools to drive dwell time.
• Success hinges on authenticity: Are these spaces genuinely social, or marketing ploys to boost sales?

“It’s really a new mindset—not creating food and beverage as a destination, but… as a way to get people to simply spend more time in the store.”
— Kat Chen, [02:25]

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3. Does It Work? Measuring Success

• The link between increased dwell time and sales is a commonly cited but poorly quantified metric ([06:53]).
• There is skepticism around whether the “third place” strategy actually results in deeper community or just commercial gain.
• Measuring KPIs like dwell time versus genuine social interaction remains challenging.

“I think the idea of a third place as a way to drive sales for retailers is an unproven theory... Experiential retail is also unproven.”
— Kat Chen, [03:44]

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4. Commerce, Scale, and Authenticity

• Oldenburg argued true third places must be independent or local; large chains and malls, by their impersonal nature, struggle to foster real connections ([05:02]).
• The personal relationships with staff and owners are key to authentic third places, which is difficult at scale.

“It’s not just about the commerce element. It’s about the scale of commerce.”
— Kat Chen, [06:20]

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5. Retailers’ Third Place Strategies: Case Studies

• To Cova’s: Western boot brand offers a full bar with unlimited free drinks in-store. This “radical hospitality” aims to mimic the founder’s living room—a welcoming space less focused on immediate sales ([07:51]).
  • Potential risks (e.g., unruly customers) haven’t materialized; it’s treated as an operating cost.
  • The relaxed, “no hard sell” sales philosophy sets it apart.
• Sephora: Its hands-off acceptance of in-store makeup trial encourages lingering and can foster community feeling ([10:33]).
• Apple: Stores offer practical amenities (phone charging, bathrooms) to the public, which create positive brand associations, even if not everyone converts to a sale ([11:58], [12:32]).
• Starbucks: Returns to free bathroom and refill policies, expressly using “third place” as justification—the focus is on low-barrier, accessible amenities ([13:08]).

“Free bathrooms. Free refills. And they explicitly use the term third place to describe adding these amenities back.”
— Kat Chen, [13:08]

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6. The Danger of “Being Branded to Death”

• Overly branded experiences (logo cookies, heavy-handed marketing) miss the point of authentic third places.
• True community comes from organic, unbranded interaction, not just offering a branded photo opportunity ([18:55]).

“You go to some kind of brand’s cafe and you’re getting cookies with the logo on them ... at the end of the day, it’s not about the social experience of being there. It’s ... akin to being the first step of being able to afford their $3,000 handbag. Again, it goes back to commerce. It’s not community.”
— Kat Chen quoting an interviewee, [18:55]

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7. Philosophical Cynicism vs. Hopeful Pragmatism

• Host Brian Baskin expresses skepticism about finding community in commerce-driven spaces ([20:12]), whereas Kat Chen envisions small independent shops genuinely filling the role for modern communities ([20:34]).
• The group concludes that while retail spaces can adopt third place qualities, they don’t replace traditional, non-commercial third places. Motives rooted in commerce may taint the endeavor but don’t wholly negate its value ([21:50], [24:07]).

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8. Practical Lightning Round ([24:50])

• Most Overdone Third Place Prop: Coffee machines ([25:14]), gendered “boyfriend lounges” ([25:21]).
• Hospitality Cue for Store Teams: Striking the right balance in customer interaction—engage meaningfully without hard selling; anticipate needs without being pushy (e.g., Printemps coat check, Uniqlo’s consistency) ([25:46]-[27:39]).
• Who Shouldn’t Attempt Third Place: Utilitarian stores like pharmacies or places with quick in-and-out shopping aren’t suitable candidates ([28:08]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Commerce was corrupting. It wasn’t a true place … If the goal is to spend money and not to socialize, is that basically what the fundamental issue is here?”
  — Brian Baskin, [04:25]
• “Project for Public Spaces ... a very cool nonprofit ... working with communities, local merchants, even bigger developers, to create public spaces for local communities.”
  — Kat Chen, [23:14]
• “[On Best Buy] When I was a kid, it was probably my third place because you could play the video games. That’s … what we’re talking about, right?”
  — Brian Baskin, [28:16]
• “Oh yeah, why not get a drink? Two kinds of shots.”
  — Brian Baskin, [28:48]
• “Maybe another time [I’ll do] my diatribe about how everyone’s afraid of strangers these days.”
  — Kat Chen, [29:05]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:08 — Episode intro, hosts and guest introductions
• 01:18 — Oldenburg’s original intent for “third place”
• 02:25 — Retailers’ literal attempts at third places (seating, F&B)
• 03:44 — Skepticism about third places driving sales
• 05:02 — Scale of commerce, difference between malls and local shops
• 06:53 — Dwell time as the main KPI
• 07:51 — To Cova’s case study (free drinks and radical hospitality)
• 10:33 — Sephora as an authentic third place experience
• 11:58 — Apple Store offering phone charging and bathrooms
• 13:08 — Starbucks bringing back amenities and “third place” terminology
• 18:55 — The problem of stores “branding us to death”
• 20:12 — Cynicism about stores as true community spaces
• 24:50 — Lightning round: props, cues, and categories unsuited for third place
• 29:05 — Kat Chen on modern fear of strangers, light-hearted sign-off

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Conclusion

While brands increasingly integrate third place elements into their stores to drive engagement, foster community, and ultimately boost sales, the success and authenticity of these efforts are mixed. The most effective examples balance genuine hospitality and inclusivity over commodified experiences. True third places are still most potent when they’re independent, accessible, and focused on fostering real social interaction—not just transactions. Still, retail can offer valuable (if imperfect) substitutes for dwindling public gathering spaces, provided motives are transparent and community is prioritized alongside commerce.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm executive editor Brian Baskin.

[B]

And I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young. From listening bars to in store cafes, retailers are chasing a big idea. Can a shop double as a spot to linger, meet and belong? Coined by sociologist Ray Oldenburg, the term third place describes all of the above except for commerce. But post pandemic with social isolation up and footfall down, brands are trying it on anyway, measuring their success not just by sales, but by dwell time, loyalty and word of mouth.

[A]

BoF retail editor Kat Chen has been reporting on the third place wave and has seen firsthand what's working, what's performative, and is asking the big question whether stores can ever really build a true community. Kat, welcome to the Debrief podcast.

[C]

Hi guys.

[D]

Happy to be here.

[B]

So, Kat, when Oldenburg initially envisioned this so called third place, I don't imagine he was picturing, you know, this being having a backdrop of lip gloss, denim dresses and all of those things. What did he initially have in mind?

[C]

Yeah, I, I do want to disclaim that this is like a very bastardized.

[D]

Version of what Ray Oldenburg was picturing. So a third place has a very simple definition.

[C]

It is a place, place that is.

[D]

Not the home, the first place, and not work or school the second place, a third place, is a social place where people can simply hang out. So it could be a local bar, a local tavern. He was imagining maybe a barber shop. It could be a youth center, a pool hall, a library, which are a lot of places that have actually been disappearing in the last couple of decades. Even at the time when he coined this term in the late 80s, 1989, a lot of these places had already been disappearing.

[A]

And what exactly are stores doing now to try to fulfill this mission of a third place that they maybe weren't doing five or 10 years ago?

[D]

I would say taking a pretty literal interpretation of creating, creating spaces where people can physically linger. So seating areas and offering food and beverage, of course, F and B, you know, is not a new thing. Many, many brands have been doing it for a long time. Dover Street Market has done it well for a long, long time. But now there's a, you know, it's really a new mindset of not creating food and beverage as a destination, but as a way to get people to sort of simply spend more time in the store.

[C]

It's a very subtle thing and I.

[D]

Think when it's done well, it's authentically creating a community.

[B]

When you mentioned you started to sort of infer what, what success doesn't look like or why this doesn't always work, it made me think about a sneaker retailer pre pandemic that invited me to, like, an experiential store opening that was going to be a community hub. And I'm pretty sure that store no longer exists now. I get that the need feels more urgent, but where were those first iterations going wrong?

[C]

I don't think this has more potential to work now. Like, I think the idea of a.

[D]

Third place as a way to drive.

[C]

Sales for retailers is an unproven theory. I don't know if it can be successfully proven in retail all. And I think that experiential retail is also unproven.

[D]

We don't know if it doesn't work. We don't know if it does work.

[C]

And experiential retail is also another one.

[D]

Of those very abstract ideas, right? Is it good service or is it something novel that makes a store a destination?

[A]

Well, Oldenburg had a lot to say about this exact question, and you alluded to this before, which is that the goal with all, you know, the food and drinks and all the bells and whistles in these stores is to get you to stay in the store longer. And we all know if you're listening to this podcast, you probably know the longer you spend in a store and the more likely you are to buy something or to tell your friends and they come to the store and they buy something too. And Oldenburg said essentially that commerce was corrupting. It wasn't a true place outside the home or work. If the goal is to spend money and not to socialize, is that basically what the fundamental issue is here?

[D]

Oldenburg had a problem with the scale of commerce. So he believed that an independently owned and a locally owned shop can be a third place, in fact, but a mall cannot be a third place because one of the tenants of being a third place. And if you look at the nifty graphic that our BoF studio whipped up for us, you can see that one of the key components of a third place is interactions with strangers. And when you go to a mall, you go to a mall to either hang out with your friends, which is great, that's a third place. And malls, many malls, I would think, by a loose definition of third place, can be a third place, but you're not really going there to interact with a stranger. And the beautiful thing about your local Store or your local cafe is that, you know, the baristas. Over time you become friends or you become friendly with the sales associates or maybe even the owner of that. And with these big chains, you don't really know who's behind the chains. And so I think it's tricky because.

[C]

It'S not just about the commerce element.

[D]

It'S about the scale of commerce. And I think that's an important distinction.

[B]

So I get that brands are sort of taking bits and pieces of what Oldenburg came up with as this third place and kind of putting their own spin on it. What are some of those things that are on. I think you called it the dashboard in the story, or maybe we're calling it the dashboard. But what are they actually saying that this is going to do for them? And how are they measuring it? What's the KPI? Is it this thing, the dwell time thing that you mentioned? What are they looking to do in their. In their version of a third place?

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[D]

It's definitely dwell time.

[C]

In my reporting, there was one statistic.

[D]

That was repeated over and over again is that for every minute increased, there was like a 1.6% increase on sales likelihood or something.

[C]

The source of it was from a.

[D]

Very, very old study.

[C]

And so I didn't include it in the story because I was like, everybody is citing this. And so it makes sense that dual.

[D]

Time would increase sales conversion. But quantifying it, I think is still very, very difficult.

[B]

So there. There are companies that are sort of toying around with this idea of getting the dwell time higher. Right. So you talked about a few of them in your story. One is the Western boot and clothing brand, right. To Covas. So what are they doing? Because I. I personally am looking for the nearest To Cova store this weekend.

[C]

Yes, we should all go to To Cova's together because it's so close to our office. And they offer free drinks, which is. It's not new. There's anyone who reported about their store opening in New York wrote about this, but I don't understand how it's not the lead to every story because they have this full bar inside their store, and actually they have bars, I think, inside of all of their stores. And at these bars, they serve all of their drinks for free. And you can have as many drinks as you want. They're not going to cut you off.

[A]

And Kat, when you visited the store in soho, how many margaritas did you have? Be honest.

[C]

I did not have a single drink at their store opening because I was headed to another event, but I promised them that I would take you guys to the store and we would test the theory. We would test the theory. And I, I was like, okay, but you guys, like, cut customers off, right? And they were like, no. And I was like, but you guys have had incidents, right? Where surely there's, you know, there's trouble with that. And they were like, no, our customers are very polite. And I was like, but surely this is a big cost item for the brand, right? And they were like, well, it's an operating cost like any other operating cost. And so this strategy is working for them. And it's part of their retail strategy that's called radical hospitality. And it's this idea that when someone enters their store, they're not making this pitch of like, oh, what are you looking for today? What's your shoe size? Or, you know, whatever. It's more like, hello, how are you? Come inside the store. And the store is set up in a way where it's like, there's a huge lounge section that is very visible to the shopper. And the idea is like, they're inviting the shopper into the living room of the founder of the company, and they're inviting the shopper in to hang out for a while and have a drink and then they can maybe buy a pair of cowboy boots.

[B]

I can't tell if this is like the buffet where if you just make it so plentiful, people's like, like their eyes or like your stomach is smaller than your eyes kind of thing, or if this is actually, like, people just behave themselves and can have self control. It also makes me think about Sephora and like, where beauty might fit into this conversation of just making it a free for all. Like, you can test and play and it seems to work out that they eventually buy. But there's also, like, I'll say my own experience with like, sometimes going into a Sephora, it's like, it's very clear people want you to buy. Like, you're playing around with the blush and you're immediately a cop. Like, do you. What color do you want? How do you avoid that part of it? Like, because you do have to make a sale. Is it training your sales associate? Like, how do you not go too far in any direction here?

[C]

I do think that there's a certain hands off element, right? Like the times where I've definitely abused Sephora's policy of free samples and gone to Sephora just to redo my makeup. Like, when I'm doing my thing, I would Say the sales associates are pretty much like, oh, she's doing her thing. She's using the samples to redo her makeup. You know, people have stayed away from me. And so I do want to make the point that, like, the retailers that are best at being third places are not the ones that you think of. It's actually not Ralph Lauren. It's not Prada Cafe. It's not Tiffany and Blue Box Cafe. Like, those are not the retailers that are the best third places, in my opinion. I think it is Sephora. Like, I think To Cova's is onto something. I talked to a real estate broker for my story, and he brought up the example of an Apple Store, because you can. Apple has this amazing policy, which I tested out in my reporting, where you can just walk into an Apple Store and be like, hey, I need to charge my phone. And you can just walk right in. And they'll be like, hey, charge your phone here. And then you can just literally stand there for 20 minutes and charge your phone. And you can go in and be like, can I use your bathroom? And they just let you do that because they realize that when you have this really positive experience in their ecosystem, that you will feel very positively about the brand.

[A]

That's so right. I mean, my first reaction when I read that in your story was, oh, brother. Like, that is really setting the bar for a third place pretty low. I can charge my phone here. And then I thought, what do I actually appreciate in public spaces? I like that there's a nice comfy bench when I'm out on a long walk and there's a park. And, like, Apple is weirdly providing that service to people walking through a mall or through an outdoor shopping center. And you do have a positive feeling about a brand when they do something like that. And that probably outweighs the fact that there's some people in there who are never going to buy anything and they're just taking advantage of their free electricity.

[C]

Totally. Which is another thing. I think that if you're a struggling chain with a lot of stores, I'm not going to say who I think a clever strategy might be. You should start offering free public bathrooms. Like, that is a public service. And that is a way to really start allowing people to have a very positive association with your brand.

[A]

And that's exactly what Starbucks just did. I mean, they famously had those free bathrooms. They took them away. Sales are falling. One of the solutions the new CEO have is give those free bathrooms back. We get people back in the store.

[C]

Exactly. Free bathrooms. Free refills. And they explicitly use the term third place to describe adding these amenities back. So again, it's not about food and beverage. I think a lot of people make the mistake of, you know, thinking community and experience is about food and beverage. And it's not. It's. Or sometimes maybe it's like you can have even mediocre food and beverage, and that's okay. I mean, the concept of food and beverage in providing a third place is actually it's low commitment food and beverage, it's cheap food and beverage, it's low barrier to entry. So a cafe where you're serving, you know, $2 coffees, hopefully not, you know, $8 fancy matcha coffees or, you know, donuts and, you know, cheap snacks so that you're welcoming everybody into the space. There's been a lot of think pieces about private membership clubs popping up in New York and how this is tied to this desire for third places. And private member clubs are not third places. They are the antithesis of third places.

[B]

For $20,000 a year in fees, you can have a nice place to build a community. We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.

[E]

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[F]

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[G]

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[B]

I want to talk about something that one of your sources said in the story, which is this term of being branded to death. What does that mean and how does retailers iteration of Third place avoid being branding us to death.

[C]

Yeah, I love this quote. I think it's our kicker. And this was with a designer, an interior design firm. I don't think he had even heard of third places before, but he immediately understood it, which I loved, because this goes back to this idea of authenticity and understanding that community building is something that is authentic and is not a branding exercise. And what he was talking about was like, you go to some kind of brand's cafe and you're getting these, like, you know, cookies with the logo on them, and like, everything is immaculately branded. And there is something, I guess, very satisfying about it. But at the end of the day, it's not about the social experience of being there. It's about maybe taking a photo of it, you know, and it's maybe about being able to consume this luxury brand that's akin to being the first step of being able to afford their $3,000 handbag. You know, again, it goes back to commerce. It's not community, it's commerce. And it's very much the opposite of what Oldenburg meant.

[A]

Yeah, Just to lay my cards on the table here, I mean, the whole time I was editing your story and talking about this story, and even right now when we're talking about it, it's just so fucking depressing. Like, the idea that we're gonna find community in a store that sells boots or iPhones. I mean, why not just go to a bar or a coffee shopping?

[B]

The. Your drinks are free at Taco.

[C]

But Brian, I mean, Brian, I think you're being too cynical. I do? Okay, me? I. Yes, you're. You're still being too cynical, because I too, am skeptical. But I do think that a local community store, like, there are stores in my neighborhood that can be a third place where I can go in. I recognize the owner. I recognize the women who work there on Fridays, because that's the day that I usually go into the store. I can stay there for an extra 10 minutes talking to that person. Maybe one day they'll put a little cafe in that store. And I think it could be a third place. And actually, I think that retail is moving in that direction because, like, think about the pieces that we've done on multi brand. Right now that department stores are faltering. All these local. All these regional boutiques are taking share. I mean, they're not taking all of the share. And it's, you know, it's much smaller scale, but we are seeing this trend where these smaller independent players are emerging. And so I do Think that retailers are onto something here.

[A]

Yeah, they're onto the fact they have a new space to market to people. And I think that's. That's what is at the heart of this. They're not doing this out of generosity or because they see there's a need for community. It's the reverse. They see there's a need for community and they realize they can capitalize on it. And I think in the end, that's why Oldenburg was so skeptical of the idea of stories as third places, because ultimately the motives aren't pure. And that on some level ruins everything.

[C]

I mean, that's Starbucks, but that's not the, you know, that's not the local shop owner.

[B]

We will have no, no sponsors moving forward for the debrief after we're done with this one.

[A]

I don't know if we had any.

[B]

So I just want to say I think there's a middle ground. Right? I think that we're giving as. As brilliant as Ray Oldenberg was. I think we're giving him a lot of credit. I think there is a middle ground. Everything we just described about making this disingenuous or tainted by stores could be applied to concerts, could be applied to a lot of things that make us feel comfortable, communal, but cost money or have as an end goal, money. I, I think my middle ground is like, if you're, if you're a retailer in fashion and beauty and elsewhere and you want to also make money and make your store community, I think they can go hand in hand. I think packaging it up as philanthropy is the problem. If you say you're doing both, and I can come and get my margarita or old fashioned at the back and get my boots at the same time, I think you're all the more better for it.

[C]

By the way, this is happening on the smaller local scale. I mean, I would urge our listeners to check out the Project for Public Spaces, the executive director of which I spoke to for my Third Places story. They're a very cool nonprofit organization that works with communities, local merchants, I think, even bigger developers, to create public spaces for local communities. They have guidebooks on how to create public spaces. They want to lobby public planners, city planners, to create more public spaces. And that's exactly what they're doing. They're creating third places. They're helping private stakeholders to create more community hubs. And so this work is happening. And so we can't be too cynical.

[D]

Brian, because it's important.

[C]

And the evil corporations like, like, you know, they can also put resources toward this stuff.

[A]

But I think we're talking about two different things here. I agree with both of you that a store can become a nicer, more welcoming store by introducing some of these third place elements. But we shouldn't confuse that with actually filling the void left by disappearing third places. That's my only point. I think it's lovely that these stores offer these things, especially the free drinks at Tokova's. I'm a huge, huge fan of that idea, but I just. I don't like the idea of combining the two.

[B]

Fair enough. So I will meet you at the barber shop or library after this. Brian, with that, let's switch to our lightning round. Okay, so I think all of us should take this question. What is the most overdone third place prop? I can go first. I think it is the. The coffee machine thing. Like, I know that's not a prop because you can actually have coffee, but I just think it's such. It's so low, low hanging fruit. Like, I like to walk in with my coffee.

[A]

Oh, I agree. That was. That was gonna be mine. I mean, coffee, where do you find it? Everywhere. Like, why do I need to get it at the store where I'm buying my. My shoes?

[C]

I'm gonna say boyfriend lounges just to be different.

[B]

What is a boyfriend? I don't know if that is, you.

[C]

Know, like the couches for the boyfriends and the husbands.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Deeply homophobic, that one.

[B]

They're so gendered. Like, it's so, so gendered. Agree. I agree with that one.

[A]

All right, next up, the one hospitality cue many store teams could adopt tomorrow.

[B]

I have great experiences in Sephora most of the time, but I did go in a couple times during Fashion Week, like in between shows, like, to do a quick touch up. And I found that the sales people were at the location that I went to, were overly anxious about asking me what I was looking for when I was just clearly doing a touch up. So much so that I bought two things I didn't really need because I felt pressured. So I think what is missing from stores in general, I think, is the. The training of sales associates to actually engage in your customer with your customers in a meaningful way, Sell to them without making it feel like they're being sold to.

[A]

I'll go with keeping a store neat and tidy and welcoming in a design sense. I still think that's pretty rare. It's less rare than it used to be. I will say I go to them all now. And like most stores, even, even chains, you Think of as struggling and kind of low end. Like, they kind of know how to make a store feel like it's not a total disaster, but there's work to be done to make it feel like a place you want to spend time. Which, again, is a key part of this whole concept.

[C]

Oh, there's so many. Like, maybe even the opposite of you. Sheena, just, like, be nice to me. Don't ignore me. Maybe anticipate my needs a little bit. I'll give you a positive example of this. I went to Printemps the other day holding a big bag. Someone actually came up to me and was like, do you want me to take that and give you a coat check tag and you can pick it up later? And I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, that was awesome. You know, but just more of that, like, anticipating need. That would be great. Like, that's something that pretty much every retailer is failing at.

[B]

Free up your hands so you can buy more stuff.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[A]

I've weirdly found Uniqlo is very good at that. You know, they. They do the thing where if you have a bunch of stuff, they'll offer you a bag. They help you check out, but they're not too pushy about it. Like, I think it can down at every price point.

[C]

Oh, yeah, Uniqlo is. Uniqlo is really great. Oh, and another thing is consistency. Like, I find that in New York, a lot of service can be really inconsistent, and I don't understand how that happens.

[B]

And then the last one is one brand or category that should not attempt a third place and why it might backfire. I can't think of very many. I almost thought about, like, a big box store, but then I said that actually that's probably a place that could do it. Maybe not.

[C]

If.

[B]

If you. If we're thinking about third place as being philanthropic or charitable, maybe. Maybe a big box shouldn't do it. Actually.

[A]

Yeah. I was gonna say, though, my third place, if I had to think about when I was a kid, was probably Best Buy because you could play the video games. I mean, that's. That's an example of what we're talking about, right?

[C]

I would say, like, in and out places, like, super, like, utilitarian. Like, if I'm picking up socks and underwear, you know, I don't want to dwell.

[A]

Is CVS never going to be a third place?

[C]

Yeah, like a pharmacy. Like a pharmaceutical.

[D]

Like a. Like. Yeah, like a pharmacy.

[C]

Like, I'm picking up men.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

I could get my face shot and a cup of coffee at the same time and a drink.

[B]

I don't know if there's no reaction.

[A]

Oh yeah, why not get a drink? Two kinds of shots. Almost missed that one. On that note, this was a fascinating discussion. I like that we went deep here. I don't know that we ever came to an agreement. I don't know if I could ever be sold on this concept, but I appreciate the effort.

[C]

Yeah, I never got to go on my diatribe about, you know, how everyone's afraid of strangers these days. But maybe, maybe another time.

[A]

On the next episode of the Debrief, we delve into the roots of Kat's existential loneliness, and Brian makes a drunken fool of himself at Tacova.

[C]

I look forward to it.

[A]

Thank you so much, Kat for joining us.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Please be sure to check out Kat's article Can a Store ever be a thing? Third [e-mail] these and other stores.

[B]

You want to be in a third place so bad.

[A]

These and other these and other stories are available to BoF professional subscribers only, and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the Debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria. I'm Brian Baskin.

[B]

And I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

[H]

Hi, I'm Madupakinola from TED Business and I'm here to talk about the Financial Times. Every day, the world bombards you with endless headlines and noise. What matters most? Facts and context. That's where the Financial Times comes in. With clarity, depth, and truly independent reporting, the FT helps you cut through the noise and see what's real and why it matters. Stay informed with the trusted source Leaders around the world rely on visit FT.comSourceFT to read more and save 40% on a digital FT subscription.

[B]

When too much work bogs you down, Asana helps you handle it. AI makes it easy to hand off routine tasks and stay focused on important work. That's how work gets handled. Visit [e-mail].