The Business of Fashion Podcast Episode: Es Devlin and Ekow Eshun on Belonging, Otherness and Identity Release Date: February 14, 2025

Introduction and Context

On Valentine’s Day 2025, The Business of Fashion Podcast hosted a profound episode featuring renowned stage designer Es Devlin and writer and cultural curator Echo Eshun. This episode delves deep into themes of identity, otherness, and belonging, exploring how these concepts intertwine within personal and societal contexts. Hosted by Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of The Business of Fashion, the conversation offers a vulnerable interrogation of self and community through the lens of their collaborative projects.

Exploring the "Congregation" Project

The discussion begins with Es Devlin introducing their joint project, Congregation, which serves as a cornerstone for understanding the intricate layers of belonging and otherness. Devlin describes Congregation as an immersive experience where 50 Londoners from immigrant backgrounds were invited to engage deeply with their sense of identity and community. The participants were drawn and displayed inside St. Mary Le Strand Church, creating a space where personal narratives intersect with collective experiences.

Echo Eshun elaborates on his motivation behind Congregation:

"I wanted to encounter the layers of separation between me and others. I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation." [00:49]

Eshun reflects on the contrasting societal responses to different refugee communities, questioning why certain groups like Ukrainians receive widespread support while others face hostility. This introspection drives him to confront his own prejudices and seek a deeper understanding of empathy and connection.

Echo Eshun’s Book: "The Strangers"

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Echo Eshun’s book, "The Strangers." Imran Ahmed reads the foreword of the book, which sets the stage for exploring the lives of five remarkable black men: Ira Aldridge, Matthew Henson, Frantz Fanon, Malcolm X, and Justin Fashny. The book intertwines historical accounts with imaginative narratives to present a nuanced portrayal of black masculinity and identity.

Eshun discusses the evolution of his writing process:

"I ended up in the early 19th century. And I felt like maybe what I'm writing about isn't hip hop itself, but is actually the experience of black people writing and creating and living." [13:31]

Originally intended as a history of hip hop, Eshun’s research led him to a broader exploration of black experiences across different eras and geographies. This shift underscores the interconnectedness of cultural expression and personal identity.

Themes of Identity, Otherness, and Belonging

Es Devlin and Echo Eshun delve into how otherness shapes our understanding of belonging. They argue that true connection necessitates a radical openness and willingness to see oneself through the eyes of others. Devlin emphasizes the importance of active imagination and broad empathy in bridging gaps between diverse communities:

"To do that, you have to do some work along the way. That work is a self-revelatory work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy." [01:03]

Eshun shares his transformative experience during the Congregation project, where participants engaged in prolonged, silent eye contact. This exercise fostered vulnerability and a profound sense of connection:

"By the end of 45 minutes, I was longing to know this person's story, and I think they were longing to tell me their story." [06:10]

This intimate encounter exemplifies how confronting otherness can lead to self-discovery and a deeper appreciation of shared humanity.

Personal Reflections and Insights

Echo Eshun reflects on the personal impact of his creative endeavors. Writing "The Strangers" was not just an exploration of others but also a journey into his own psyche:

"This is a book about these five men that I described, but really, it's a book about me." [06:13]

Through his work, Eshun experiences a heightened sensitivity to the world, acknowledging both the beauty and the pain inherent in human connections. This duality is reflected in his artistic collaborations, such as the Congregation project commissioned by Cartier, which he transformed into a meaningful art installation at the Tate Modern.

Devlin adds to this narrative by highlighting the role of art in fostering empathy and connection:

"Artworks and artists can be part of that process of opening up those paths to self-discovery and connection with others." [18:39]

"Home is the Other We Carry Inside Us"

The episode culminates with a poignant reflection on the title of their discussion: "Home is the Other We Carry Inside Us." This phrase encapsulates the essence of their exploration—understanding that our sense of home and belonging is deeply intertwined with our relationships with others.

Devlin articulates the necessity of self-discovery in fostering genuine connections:

"There's a necessary path of self-discovery that takes place, which is really, I suppose, what we're talking about as well." [18:39]

Both Devlin and Eshun underscore that achieving a universal sense of belonging requires continuous effort, empathy, and a willingness to engage with the complexities of identity and otherness.

Conclusion and Call to Action

As the conversation draws to a close, Echo Eshun invites listeners to engage further with their work:

"Please read Echo's book. Please come and see this work." [21:11]

The Congregation installation will be showcased at Somerset House, where audiences can witness the studio environment where these profound works were created. The episode emphasizes the importance of immersive art and literature in bridging societal divides and fostering a deeper understanding of ourselves and others.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "I wanted to encounter the layers of separation between me and others. I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation." — Echo Eshun [00:49]

• "To do that, you have to do some work along the way. That work is a self-revelatory work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy." — Imran Ahmed [01:03]

• "By the end of 45 minutes, I was longing to know this person's story, and I think they were longing to tell me their story." — Echo Eshun [06:10]

• "This is a book about these five men that I described, but really, it's a book about me." — Echo Eshun [06:13]

• "Artworks and artists can be part of that process of opening up those paths to self-discovery and connection with others." — Es Devlin [18:39]

• "Home is the Other We Carry Inside Us." — Title Theme [18:39]

This episode of The Business of Fashion Podcast offers a compelling exploration of how art and storytelling can dismantle barriers, challenge biases, and foster a more inclusive sense of community. Es Devlin and Echo Eshun’s collaborative work serves as a testament to the power of vulnerability and empathy in redefining our understanding of identity and belonging.