How Fashion Brands Build Community in 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Business of Fashion Podcast – "How Fashion Brands Build Community in 2025"

Episode Information:

• Title: How Fashion Brands Build Community in 2025
• Host/Author: The Business of Fashion
• Release Date: May 20, 2025
• Description: This episode explores the pivotal role of community building for fashion brands amidst economic pressures and shifting consumer behaviors in 2025. Hosted by Sheena Butler Young and Brian Baskin, with insights from BoF correspondent Lei Takanashi.

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1. Introduction

The episode opens with Sheena Butler Young and Brian Baskin addressing the current economic challenges facing the fashion industry in 2025, such as declining consumer confidence and increasing tariffs. In this competitive landscape, brands are not only striving to attract customers but also to retain them by fostering genuine communities.

[00:37] Brian Baskin: "In that context, brands are scrambling to not just attract customers, but retain them."

2. The Importance of Community in 2025

Sheena introduces the concept of community as a buzzword in the fashion industry, questioning its true meaning and authenticity. The discussion emphasizes that successful communities transcend transactional relationships, fostering emotional connections between brands and consumers.

[00:54] Sheena Butler Young: "The strongest communities aren't transactional, they're emotional."

3. Key Elements of a Successful Brand Community

a. Engaged Customers: Lei Takanashi highlights that engaged customers exhibit loyalty and passion for the brand beyond mere product appeal. They trust the brand and feel a personal connection.

[02:27] Lei Takanashi: "You have a very engaged customer... they keep coming back not just because it's something that looks cool, but because it represents who I am."

b. Authenticity: Authenticity is crucial for fostering trust and demonstrating the brand's genuine investment in its customers.

[03:06] Lei Takanashi: "There's a sense of authenticity... they're invested in the customer."

4. The 2025 Landscape: Economic and Social Factors

Sheena and Lei delve into why community building has become more critical in 2025. Economic caution among consumers and increased social divisions necessitate that brands align with their customers' values and identities.

[03:27] Lei Takanashi: "Consumers are more cautious spenders... and more divided socially."

a. Social Divisions and Value Alignment: Brands must resonate with consumers' personal and political beliefs, providing more than just products but representing broader values.

[04:41] Lei Takanashi: "We're searching for brands that represent something bigger than ourselves."

5. Types of Brand Communities

Lei identifies three distinct types of brand communities, each with unique characteristics and engagement strategies.

a. Activity-Driven Communities: Brands build communities around specific activities, such as running or yoga, by addressing local needs and facilitating genuine interactions.

[05:08] Lei Takanashi: "Bandit Running... listens to their customers and addresses their needs."

Example:

• Bandit Running: Engages local runners by opening stores early for meetups, demonstrating a deep understanding of community needs.

b. Personality-Driven Communities: These communities center around influential personalities or brand founders, leveraging their charisma to build strong emotional bonds.

[07:46] Lei Takanashi: "Brands like Kidsuper tap into the whimsical childhood sense of self, representing something larger than just the founder."

c. Values-Based Communities: Brands that align with specific values such as diversity and body positivity foster communities where consumers share and support these ideals.

[11:28] Lei Takanashi: "84% of consumers need to share values with a brand to buy it."

6. Challenges and Considerations

a. Scaling Community Efforts: As brands grow, maintaining a personalized and authentic community becomes challenging. Lei emphasizes the importance of a localized approach to ensure each community feels unique and valued.

[20:35] Lei Takanashi: "Stay committed to a localized approach... work with local influencers and tailor programming to each community."

b. Evolution of Values: Brands must remain adaptable as consumer values evolve. What was once seen as progressive may change, requiring brands to continuously reassess and redefine their value propositions.

[15:32] Lei Takanashi: "Your definition of a value can't be rigid."

c. Risks in Values Alignment: Aligning deeply with specific values can pose risks if societal or political climates shift. However, Lei suggests that understanding and knowing one’s community mitigates these risks.

[15:13] Lei Takanashi: "Your community truly believes in your values, reducing the risk when political tides turn."

7. Best Practices for Building Authentic Communities

a. Local Engagement: Brands should engage with communities on a local level, understanding and addressing specific regional needs and preferences.

[21:58] Lei Takanashi: "Arc Directs builds local Instagram pages and collaborates with local fitness influencers to address specific community needs."

b. Real-Life Presence: Maintaining a tangible presence through events, pop-ups, and in-person interactions strengthens the emotional bond between the brand and its community.

[23:42] Lei Takanashi: "Show up in real life... engage with customers personally."

c. Transparent Communication: Transparency, especially during challenges, fosters trust and loyalty. Brands that openly share their stories and progress cultivate stronger relationships.

[08:10] Lei Takanashi: "Clint419 from Cortez remains respected due to his transparency and authentic storytelling."

8. Redefining Loyalty Programs

Traditional loyalty programs focusing on discounts and rewards often fail to build true community. Instead, brands should incentivize deeper engagement and participation in the brand’s journey.

[18:50] Lei Takanashi: "Topicals and other brands reward customer engagement by involving them in product development, offering more meaningful rewards than simple discounts."

9. Conclusion

Building genuine communities requires a multifaceted approach that emphasizes authenticity, local engagement, and adaptive value alignment. Brands that successfully navigate these elements can foster loyal, emotionally connected communities that withstand economic and social fluctuations.

[24:42] Sheena Butler Young: "Understanding the nuances of communities and engaging authentically is key to successful community building."

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Connections Over Transactions: Prioritize building emotional bonds rather than focusing solely on sales.
• Authenticity and Transparency: Be genuine in interactions and transparent during challenges to build trust.
• Localized Strategies: Tailor community-building efforts to fit the unique needs of each local market.
• Adaptability: Continuously evolve brand values to stay aligned with changing consumer expectations.
• Deep Engagement: Move beyond traditional loyalty programs by fostering deeper participation and co-creation with consumers.

By implementing these strategies, fashion brands can effectively build and sustain vibrant communities that drive long-term loyalty and success in the competitive landscape of 2025.

Transcript

[Sheena Butler Young]

Foreign hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.

[Brian Baskin]

And I'm executive editor Brian Baskin. The fashion industry is facing real economic pressure in 2025, whether it's falling consumer confidence or those tariffs that we've talked about on episode after episod. In that context, brands are scrambling to not just attract customers, but retain them.

[Sheena Butler Young]

That's where the idea of community comes in. It's become one of fashion's most popular buzzwords. But what does it actually mean to build one and how do you do it authentically? From cult favorite beauty brands to streetwear labels and running clubs, the strongest communities aren't transactional, they're emotional.

[Brian Baskin]

BoF correspondent Lei Takanashi recently wrote a deep dive on this very topic, headlined How Brands Build Genuine Communities. And he's with us today. Lei, welcome to the debrief.

[Lei Takanashi]

Thank you, Brian. Sheena, it's a pleasure to be here again.

[Brian Baskin]

All right, Lei, so I'm going to start by basically questioning the entire premise of this amazing case study you wrote about communities and brands. I'm always a little skeptical, personally. When a brand starts talking about its customers as a community. I mean, convince me there's something real here. When a brand basically says, you're not giving us money, we're a family.

[Lei Takanashi]

Well, I definitely understand that skepticism because, yes, community has for a long time just been a buzzword of just carelessly froz around. But I think when you think about just the times we're living in right now, it's just more important than ever before. I mean, it's just like really just looking outside, thinking about what do you personally want as just a consumer and also as a human being. You know, when I'm shopping today, you know, I'm thinking more about what eggs I'm going to buy this week, right in, like, the latest release from a brand. So I think what really now drives me to make a purchase is like, what does this brand represent? They go, what are its values? And like, how has it improved my life, you know, beyond just like being something I wear. And I think that's where really comes in because I think we as consumers, we just naturally gravitate towards brands that align with our identity, align with our values, and just align with just something larger than just a product.

[Brian Baskin]

Okay, I'm convinced there's something here. Now, why don't you tell us, basically outline what A brand community looks like when it's really firing on all cylinders.

[Lei Takanashi]

Well, I think one is that you have a very engaged customer. You know, it's not just simply just buying something and then they just leave. There's a sense of loyalty and true passion for the brand and its products, and they keep coming back to it. Not just because it's just something that looks cool and shiny, but it's something that, like, it represents who I am and it represents in a. I trust this brand because I believe in what they're doing and they listen to what I want as a customer as well. It's this two way conversation. I think what also makes a community work too, is just this general sense of authenticity. You know, there's just this sense that what this brand is doing is real and they're invested in the customer.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Can we talk a little bit about the landscape in 2025, why all of these things are more important? So, like, you talk about being an engaged consumer or, you know, feeling like you have an authentic bond with a brand. That's probably always been somewhat true. But you mentioned earlier, like, choosing between eggs now and like a new sneaker job. Can we talk about the climate a little bit? Why brands have to do this even more than ever?

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, you know, consumers, I think right now more are more cautious spenders now more than ever. But on top of that, I think we're also just more divided than ever before socially. Like, our whole perspective regarding whatever progressive values we find we shared of everyone in America is actively been questioned, like, every single day. International conferences have reached the boiling point where just even your opinions on issues in America could lead to consequences that we haven't seen in some time. So I think fashion has always provided a sense of escapism. In my case, I named one of the sections after this Barbara Kubrick and called I shop therefore I am. You know, I love that pin because I feel like I probably captured just what consumer means to us, you know, especially as Americans. Like, we gravitate towards brands that make us believe in something that's bigger than ourselves. And fashion has always provided that escapism for us. So, you know, for some people, maybe they just buy a North Face or ARC Turex jacket because that's just what the best product is on the market. But I think for a lot of people, you buy that jacket and you buy into that brand because it represents athletes who reach summits that no man has ever reached. And I think the same goes for whatever luxury brand you are obsessed with, whatever streetwear brand you're obsessed with. It's like there's a bigger thing behind it that pulls you emotionally. And yeah, I think it's just now we're really searching for that, just with these uncertain times.

[Brian Baskin]

And it doesn't just have to be a brand, right. I mean, I think one of the examples that's been thrown around for many years is a store like rei, the outdoor store, where people can. You can literally own a share in the company, basically, and get like, profit sharing on some level. And. And, you know, you can buy a lot of that equipment anywhere, you know, camping gear, but you buy it at REI because you feel like you're part of what they're doing. What's an example that you talked about in your case study? I know you had some great ones in there.

[Lei Takanashi]

The best one I could think of is just Bandit Running. I think that is a great example of just the brand that, like, consumers are buying into it because they believe that they're being listened to and they're being acknowledged as runners, you know, wherever they are. I thought it was so interesting how this specific brand, right? Like, currently they only have two stores in New York, one in Los Angeles. And I think it's easy to think that a brand like that, it's easy to build community because, you know, running is an activity. Everybody runs. Like, especially there are more runners now more than ever before.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I don't know if everybody runs. You're giving me a challenge. I don't know if I'm running right now, but that's a good. It's a good motivator.

[Lei Takanashi]

But it's interesting because, like, I think it's easy to think, oh, if you're. If you're just invested in like whatever sport is, yoga, you know, like just going to the gym, right? Oh, there's always a community because you just go to the gym, you just go on a jog, people are running outside. Right. But I think what's really interesting is that about how Bandit approached communities is how much they understood that you have to really talk to the people locally in these areas. Like, if you open a store in the West Village of lower Manhattan, you don't open a run club there because there's 100 run clubs in the West Village already. So what do you do? You talk to the community. You ask them, what do you want from us as a store when we open here? And you listen to them. What these runners wanted was they wanted a spot to meet up at 7am in the morning. So Bandit's one of the only stores in downtown Manhattan opens at 7am to accommodate runners and they all meet up there and then they go on their. That's the kind of thing that I think really breaks through. You know, it's like you actually listen to your customer, you address their needs and you bring something that's additive to their experience with the brand.

[Brian Baskin]

We keep coming back to communities built around brands that are involved in sports or activities. Somehow I know that's one type of community, but there are others, right? You identified three in your case study and activity was one of them. I think we've gone over that. What are the other two?

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, so the other two are personality driven communities and value based communities. And I'll just touch upon personality driven one since that's the first one I brought up. But I think those are really interesting because I think they're really just prevalent in this era where so many young customers, especially Gen Z, who anticipate to have the spending power, the most spending power by 2030. They all grew up in this environment of influencers, whether it's MrBeast on YouTube or Kai Sana on Twitch. And these personalities that they've grown up with have been hyper engaged with their following. They literally just, just turn on the video camera and they just like talk to your audience for like hours on end. And I think what that's created is this customer who's really just very invested in the personalities and founders of these brands.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Is there a downside to that, by the way? Like, I think you're right in terms of like this new age customer that's used to hearing from a brand, CEO or celebrity directly. And you'll see these founders like they'll be in their supply house and like packing up packages to be delivered. It can be very exciting. It can make you feel like you are connected to them. But I imagine there's some downside to that too. Can you talk a little bit about a downside of a personality driven community?

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, I think the biggest challenge there when you create this community is like, you know, when I think about like what you just said, like someone who's packing up orders and stuff, I think about a lot about that buzzy streetwear brand Cortez, right? The founder Clint419, all he all his videos on socials, it's like I'm packing up your orders to ship them. And he like, he like literally like post like stories about this all the time and just like, please be patient, our team's working hard and all this type of stuff. I think why people resonate with him even when something like that happens, where it's like recently there was some issue of him shipping this new Nike collaboration. It was taking a super long time for aurors to get out. But I think why people still respect him and love him is because he's transparent with his audience. And he also just shows this story of progression. It's like he always kind of emphasizes my company. Wasn't this five years ago? I was here in my small apartment packing 400 orders in one week and there was nobody else here but me. It's that kind of story that I think people really look for. But I think what's important is that people have to see that founder story and kind of see themselves in their shoes. Right. And it's like, if he could do it, I could do it too.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I was thinking more about the founder that has some big controversy and your whole identity as a brand is caught up in that. And we've seen a lot of those be canceled. Yeah.

[Brian Baskin]

Another area I'm curious about with these personality driven brands is how do they. I mean, some of them probably want to build an exclusive community that really is just for fans, but I'm sure a lot of them are hoping people who aren't already in that world will be interested in whatever they're selling. And I can imagine being. I think it would be quite intimidating with some of these brands that are built around an influencer, let's say, if I've never heard of that person, but I think the product's cool, I might almost be afraid to wear it or to go to the store if I'm not already in that world.

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah. I remember one thing that was interesting when talking to kidsuper for this case study is that that's a brand that's really also strongly built off one person's personality. He told me day one of his brand he would just post on Instagram every day. And he realized that he couldn't just post products. So he just started posting about his own personal life and he grew a following just off that just you him being this quirky, funny, really charismatic brand founder. But one thing he emphasized to me on the call is that Kid super is not him. Even though everyone calls him Colm Delaine, the founder of Kids super kidsuper. He says it represents this larger idea of just tapping into this whimsical childhood sense of self. Right. And I think that's really key there with these brands that are founded by really just charismatic individuals is you have to figure out what is my brand or what does my personality represent to just a much broader group of people. And that could be a aspirational story or that could be just a larger message of your brand being something that's just inspirational and just to resonate with them on a more human level than just like, I'm this cool guy, like please buy my stuff.

[Brian Baskin]

You know, I think you've really hit on why some influencer brands land and so many don't. It really comes down to that.

[Sheena Butler Young]

You talk about values driven. By the way, I wanted to hear a little bit about the values driven point. You had great examples like aerie and topicals and aerie. I know personally around their body positivity stuff has been really engaging to a lot of people, including myself. Let's talk a little bit about that and what that means and why that's important.

[Lei Takanashi]

Especially now in regards to just like values based brands. I thought it was really interesting to discover in a survey last year from element that 84% of consumers across all age groups said they needed to share values for brand in order to buy it. And basically what that means is that what consumers I think are looking for when they purchase a brand is if they represent something that's just like it could be maybe their own personal political beliefs, maybe their own values of things for diversity, body positivity, what have you. And I think, yeah, it's just, I think way more important just factor in one's purchasing decision today.

[Sheena Butler Young]

We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.

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[Sheena Butler Young]

What about brands? Trying to do some of that now and the risk in this political climate like I've heard a lot of thought leaders talk about the if your community truly believes it, there is no risk. So like if you're going all in on, I don't know, body positivity or let's say diversity for the sake of it and your community really believes that maybe there is no risk when the political tides turn. Is that true? Like is there risk to going too far into this values driven approach or is it just worth it in the end?

[Lei Takanashi]

I think the biggest risk and I think the most interesting thing that I learned from this case, especially when talking to Arie, which is like been on this positivity beat since I think the late 2000s if I'm correct, I think they started aerial campaign or the aerial campaign like the early 2010s.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, way before the boom and all that in the late 2010s for sure.

[Lei Takanashi]

Well, it was interesting to hear Stacey McCormack, the chief marketing officer, tell me, was that how they had to actually redefine the definition of that over time? Right. So I remember one example she brought up was how they used to ask their customers, oh, we have this campaign called show up in the swim you're in. And it was basically asking their customers to just show up in their bathing suits and just to feel proud about wearing an airy bathing suit and just be proud of their own body. But what they learned from just surveying customers is that they felt like they didn't have to show up in a bathing suit to feel like they loved themselves and loved the body they were in. Which I thought was so interesting because it's like you have to understand, I guess, how the definition of the values that you preach will change over time. And I think what some consumers thought was a progressive definition of something 10 years ago is now not that in 2025. And we've seen so many instances of that in general or just culture. And especially in terms of what was politically correct 10 years ago is not politically correct now. So it's just adapting to how consumers perceive these things and also just being receptive to it and just understanding that your definition of a value can't be rigid.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, I'm sure, Sheena, you could speak to this too, because I know you do so much reporting on this topic. But I mean, that is the difference, right? The companies like Target or Walmart that very quickly, you know, backed away from DEI after the election and then there's a lot of brands that doubled down and they made that part of their identity and you know, they did that pivot lays talking about and said, we're actually going to talk more about this now because it's in the news and it's under attack.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yeah, it's because it's low. I think it's low risk when you actually know your community. To your point about community building, when you know your community, know who your audience is, you can kind of do this because you won't disenfranchise people. I think when you're trying to do value stuff as like a catch all, that's the risk because you can't share everyone's values. You have to sort of go all the way in. I was thinking about loyalty, by the way, which we opened this up with. It sounds a lot of this is about loyalty and I wonder how that's evolved as the way that brands think about it. I remember covering these Loyalty programs and the digital boom brands were saying, we have all this data, we're going to be able to connect with our consumers and give them targeted discounts and didn't actually have the net result of making customers more loyal. Can you talk about why those don't work, the discounts and like get the app. Like maybe people will get seven apps and just compare prices.

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, I think generally like loyalty programs like never really engendered like a sense of community in anyone. Like, you know, I mean personally as a customer, like do you go to like when you buy coffee at Dunkin and get points for it or let's say you make a huge purchase out of your favorite department store and get like a 500 coupon? Do you feel like you're just part, you're part of a bigger community?

[Brian Baskin]

I don't want to ride the coffee. The coffee community, that Dunkin community is dangerous.

[Sheena Butler Young]

That's like the Beehive. No, the. And I'm a member of the Dunkin Starbucks lawyer. Like that works for me. I am loyal. But I think department stores, you're right.

[Brian Baskin]

You just saying two rival coffee chains.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And saying, well, so I'm loyal to no. So then I just undid that I actually am incentivized to buy my coffee from one of those two places every morning because I can just open an app now. Would I go to bat for any of those brands? Probably not. But I will get my coffee every day from either of them.

[Brian Baskin]

I support my local coffee shop because I'm a good person.

[Sheena Butler Young]

But anyway, continue back to values driven Brian's Values driven community here.

[Lei Takanashi]

No, but it's interesting you say that, that you know, you, you go to Dunkin and you go to Starbucks because like it was one interesting data point I found too while researching this case. It was consultancy. Cap Gemini said in a 2024 survey that over 53% of consumers switch brands and retailers regularly despite subscribing to their lordsly programs. And I think it's because you don't like. Yeah, like they might give you a reward if you stay committed to buying Dunkin' if you stay committed to buying Starbucks, whatever coffee brand you like the most. But end of the day there isn't much of an incentive to stick with them. So what consumers really are looking for today is not necessarily getting rewarded for their purchases, but to have this opportunity to engage with the brand at a deeper level and be rewarded for their engagement with the brand. So it's like I think about brands like Topicals and this platform to ib Right. How their reward system works there is that they ask consumers to answer a question about, what do you think about latest beauty product? What color do you want to see this product in the future? They're asking questions like that and giving them an opportunity to create something with the brand. Six months later, you might actually see the results of what you contributed. And that is a much, I think, more impactful reward than just being like, hey, give us a review and we'll give you a 10% discount. Granted that they do have that still. It's not like that disappears. There's more ways to just give back and then have the customers just also give in too.

[Sheena Butler Young]

It's an and not a but or an either or. It's an and probably.

[Brian Baskin]

So a lot of the companies we've been talking about, not all of them have been. They're on the smaller side. I mean, they can have that intimate relationship with their customers because there aren't millions of them at this point. I mean, how do you scale something like that?

[Lei Takanashi]

That I think scaling community is definitely challenging, especially for much bigger businesses. But I think it's possible as long as you stay committed to, I think, a localized approach and understanding that your big company, your big global brand is not a one size fits all thing. And I think a great example of that is how brands like Arc Directs have managed to build community. They have local Instagram pages for various cities. They also work with key local fitness influencers or leaders in these cities, like in New York. And they're like, bring local programming to gyms. They're very attuned to what those local communities want from a brand like Arc Directs. Rather than just being like, oh, let's just do this event, and then it's across all our cities, it's like, no, we're going to work with this specific gym on this specific program and then address these athletes in this specific region. Right. And I think the even bigger example of that is just these arcturex academies and how they basically put up these outdoor sports clinics and just key mountain destinations throughout the world. It's not just like, oh, you get to climb this mountain in this area, but they also implement programming that speaks to the local mountain culture of these areas. So it might be like you learn about the history of the area and things like that, or they might have a vendor fair just full of local retailers and stuff of that nature.

[Brian Baskin]

I think store employees play such a big role in scaling too. Because I was just thinking when you mentioned arcturux, I remember we all went to One of the new stores they opened and I was looking at like a hiking pack or something. And. And I think that employee could have talked to me all afternoon about hiking packs if I'd wanted to. And I kind of did, but we did have to go at a certain point. But like, I think, you know, you can have hundreds of stores and still find, you know, people who are experts in their field and can really cultivate that. That feeling. I mean, it's hard. Very few brands managed to do it, but it seems like a big differentiator.

[Lei Takanashi]

No, it is, it is. I mean, I've seen that particularly, you know, this isn't a business that has hundreds of stores necessarily, but like, you know, supreme. Right. Every time they open a new store, they're known for having employees that are literally all hired from the local skateboard scenes of the city they just opened the store in. And I think that very much maintains like, you know, their brand's image, their brand and how it resonates with like just the roots of skateboarding that the brand came from. So. So, yeah, definitely important.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, luxury brands are so good at that too. I mean, they get people who are just so passionate about what they're selling or at least can reasonably fake it, but it really, you know, that's half making the sale right there.

[Sheena Butler Young]

So it sounds like all of this takes a very holistic approach and it includes having that very hyper local emphasis. So if you have a strategy around community building, you're also thinking in each local community how you would execute. There's also, as Brian just points out, an employee component. So if you hire at your retail stores, these people show up, they understand the brand, they understand your community, they're having real conversations. Is there any other advice or thing that you learned in this case study that you would tell other brands about building community and showing up authentically that ever elusive concept of authenticity?

[Lei Takanashi]

I think it's really understanding the nuances of communities in general. Just understanding that, you know, it's definitely not this one size fits all approach. And it's also just like having to really be on the ground and just listen to the customers. It's not just like kind of just observing it from afar and being like, yeah, it seems like people that are into this brand or just into this generally. It's like you should really be there in person at pop ups, you know, shake hands with people, talk to the customer and just like understand them on that level. I feel like every single brand I spoke about in this case study, they have made some effort to show up in real life. It's not just, you know, metrics that they're recording digitally or seeing how much they engaged with their customer base on Instagram or whatnot. It's like they all make some effort to show up in real life. And I think that's really important now, especially in times when everything feels so much it's on this digital social media space when people are really looking to engage just in real life with these brands.

[Brian Baskin]

I love that. It's a great note to end on too. Lei, thanks so much for joining us today.

[Lei Takanashi]

It's a pleasure. Brian Machina thank you.

[Brian Baskin]

Please be sure to check out Lei's case study how brands build genuine [e-mail] this& other stories are available to be professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

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