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The Business of Fashion Podcast
Inside The Swatch X Audemars Piguet Global Frenzy
00:21:33
Swatch and Audemars Piguet’s $400 pocket watch sparked a global retail frenzy. BoF’s Cathaleen Chen and Mimosa Spencer ask whether high-low collaborations democratise luxury or dilute exclusivity.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the business of fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young. Sleeping bags on the pavement, police barriers in Times Square, and store doors slammed shut. From London to Dubai, this is the scene of a watch launch in 2026. But the object of this global frenzy isn't a $50,000 mechanical marvel. It's a $400 pocket watch. This week, the watch world was fixated on a collaboration that on paper, sounded almost impossible. Audemars Piguet, one member of the so called holy trinity of Swiss watchmaking, teaming up with 90s go to Swatch on a pop art pocket watch. The launch sparked the kind of frenzy brands dream of and dread in equal measure. But beyond the hype, the collaboration raises bigger questions about luxury accessibility, youth culture, and the future of Swiss watchmaking. To unpack all of this, we're joined by BoF Luxury editor Mimoza Spencer and retail editor Kat Chen. Kat Mimoza, welcome to the debrief.
- [01:29]
B
Thanks for having us, Sheena.
- [01:31]
C
Hi, Sheena. Thank you for having us.
- [01:33]
A
So it has really been a whirlwind week for Swatch. The stores were shuttered, the shares have been surging, and the secondary market listings are on fire. But before we get into why this collaboration hit the way that it did, Kat, why don't you talk us through what this Royal Pop actually looks like, because it's genuinely unlike anything either brand has ever done before.
- [01:52]
B
Sure. Sheena. This is a collection of eight watches, of eight pocket watches. They look like a Swatch watch, but they have the shape of Audemars Piguet's iconic Royal oak watch, priced 400 to $420 in these very bright colors. This is a unique format that has drawn a lot of ire from watch collectors that follow the space very closely, because I think a lot of them, the enthusiasts were expecting a wristwatch and, you know, this would be their opportunity to score an AP watch, which usually is, you know, 25,000 doll more, typically more. But the thinking there is that this format would protect the, the equity of, of the actual wristwatch itself. And it would also open up the brand to maybe a younger generation of consumers. Gen Z love their bag charms, keychains, little accessories. And so this was a play at that as well.
- [02:52]
A
So an AP and this specific collection, the Royal Oak, typically starts at about $20,000 a watch. And so as part of the H that people actually have access to AP at the 400 level. Is that kind of a big part of the story?
- [03:11]
C
That's a really big part of the story. One of the things that the luxury industry is dealing with overall is how to generate excitement with people who can't afford some of these very expensive objects. And that's across the luxury sector, right? Not just watches. So to suddenly have access to something that some people will never have access to in their lifetimes is something that, that generates a lot of interest. And brands, even if they're not affordable by certain people in the society, it still serves them to have broad interest because that way they're entering the cultural conversation, they're known as a household name. Otherwise, if they're in a closed off world, then they won't have any resonance. So it's possible for brands to have resonance even if people can't afford them. And then all of a sud to have something that is affordable, it just brings it right into the wider sphere.
- [04:07]
A
Well, one of the things that Kat already said here was like the hype started well before the collection actually hit. Well, it's only been out for a few weeks, but it started soon after. And one of the things we saw was like AI generated fake versions of the watch that actually turned out to be disappointing in the end. Kat, what happened there? People were showing what they expected it to look like and ended up being a pocket watch and not a wristwatch.
- [04:32]
B
Yeah, exactly. There were a ton of images, really convincing images that appeared, you know, on Twitter, on the threads. I was reading a New York Times reporter, Jacob Gallagher's write up of the news about this collaboration and he said that he fell for one of those photos before his friend pointed out that it was fake. You know, I don't think that there was necessarily ill intent in misleading people, but when there's this much excitement and everybody in that Watch community is participating in it, it becomes really hard to discern what's real and what isn't. And I had read that Swatch actually pulled forward the image reveal in order to maybe suppress some of the misinformation out there. But ultimately the images and the hype and even, you know, maybe some of the discourse around disappointment. Disappointment. I, in my opinion, I think that it served Swatch absolutely.
- [05:30]
C
All that extra attention is really, really thrust Swatch and AP into the center of the conversation. And all that speculation has just fed countless amounts of, of commentary, speculation. It's basically lit up social media.
- [05:49]
A
That's interesting because a lot of analysts have said this is AP's way of recruiting younger generations. Their CE said the same thing into the world of watchmaking. You're giving them access. And then at some point, this is the long game. But at some point this generation will, when they can afford to, will want to invest in the $20,000 or $50,000 AP. I don't know if I believe that.
- [06:11]
C
Look, it's to be at the center of a conversation is already a huge coup for the watchmaking industry. Traditional watchmakers are really struggling to find relevance today with younger generations. People don't necessarily use watches anymore to look at the time you've got your phone. And bringing any kind of attention to traditional Swiss watchmaking is already a victory for AP and for Swatch. Swatch is struggling more these days. So it's finally getting some buzz around it rather than negative attention for not doing very well financially. So it's really changed the discourse for Swatch.
- [06:52]
B
I will say Swatch is getting the thicker end of the deal. Swatch, I think, has a lot more to gain than AP who said, by the way, they're treating it kind of as a pet project, right? Mimosa, they said that they are donating a lot of the proceeds. Whereas for Swatch, it's interesting because if you look at the shares of swatch group, since May 8, the value of their shares have gone down. But I think that maybe this is just a temporary effect. A lot of the negative sentiment has come from the watch enthusiast community internally. And I think there's a lot of crossover between investor sentiment and watch enthusiasts. And so I think that's my personal theory as to why the shares have come down. But Mimosa, I think, you know, you sent me some notes about analysts upgrading Swatch because of the collaboration.
- [07:48]
C
Yeah, it's fascinating. I've never seen so many equity analysts writing about a collaboration in years. We've had notes from ubs, Barclays, rbc, the list goes on. It's been so interesting. All of a sudden it grabbed their attention. The analysts are saying, look, it's worth doing a forecast of how much sales it could make. Nobody's saying it's going to change the trajectory of Swatch. That's very clear. But it's brought positive attention to watch and the actual financial results could be enough to make a blip on their estimations.
- [08:27]
A
You know, Swatch has done collaborations with Omega and Blank Pond, but it hasn't done anything outside of Swatch Group. Like how much is that playing into why analysts are excited? I don't know about consumers. I don't know if consumers are sitting around tracking like this is the first one outside of the watch group. But is that making analysts excited that they've stepped beyond their usual in house group?
- [08:47]
C
Absolutely. AP is one of the brands that's really doing well right now. You have a small group of very prestigious watchmakers that are leading the pack of the industry and that are shooting far ahead of everybody else. So these are like Rolex, Patek Philippe and Audemars. Piguet is fairly new to this, to this level, to really being part of this very small elite group of watchmakers that are extending their lead over everybody else. And it's been very interesting to see how Hilaria Resta, the fairly new CEO, is approaching her role. And she's been talking a lot about protecting the industry. The brand has invested in some of the production in Switzerland because Swiss watch producers are really struggling because demand for mechanical watches has come down so much in recent years. So she's really presenting herself as somebody who's interested and invested in raising the profile of switch watchmaking, which is very interesting because it's a closed industry. It's known as being a closed industry. And she's kind of pushing the limits a bit and trying to push it into the conversation with younger generations and a broader audience.
- [10:05]
A
Well, that's all the exciting and positive reasons why this is working well, and it will continue to work well in some ways. But this was before the weekend when stores were shutting down, people were fighting outside and it got it, like, fundamentally bad. I want to switch gears to that part. On the Swatch part, they have done collaborations, the ones I just mentioned. Some of the criticism focuses on the fact that they should have been prepared for this and it seemed like they weren't. Kat, from a retail perspective, was that is this, does this erode the success of this launch?
- [10:39]
B
Yeah, I think undeniably it does. I was thinking about this today, even though my stance is that overall this collaboration has been the smashing success. I do think that there is a lot of emotional damage that occurs when you have a horrible in person experience, whether that's waiting in line for a product or horrible customer service. The emotional scars of something happening in person is always going to be much greater than reputational damage, for instance. But I will say most people didn't wait in line for a watch. Most people who are commenting on this hasn't done that. And yet, you know, we've talked about the analyst attention and the watch enthusiasts, but this is a rare watch collaboration that has reached a new Stratosphere of buzz because you have ordinary people who are not obsessed with watches talking about it. And I think this is sort of the compound effect of hype is when hype reaches such a high level of hype that even more people want to participate in it for the sake of participating in it. I mean, I've had friends send me, you know, the headlines about it, and they don't care about watches, you know, and so I think that in and of itself is a feat. And most of these people, again, are not experiencing the. The chaos at. At the stores that maybe they're looking at the. The resale values and. And maybe they're thinking to themselves, oh, it'd be nice to have one. That's sort of where I'm at. I'm like, oh, it'd be really nice to have, you know, a cute little AP Swatch watch to put on my bag. But, yeah, I think those headlines are not great, right? But at the end of the day, that. That emotional damage is. Is. Is still quite limited to the people who are there.
- [12:35]
A
Mimosa, one of the sources in Kat's story, I think, called it the PR stunt of the decade. Is that a compliment for a luxury brand like ap? Because I think I hear cats point to and like the emotional damage of being in person. I don't know if a luxury brand appreciates a headline that discusses chaos and fights and police barricades at stores that ends with the stores having to be closed. Like, does AP recover from that? Is that a compliment?
- [13:03]
C
That's a really good question. I thought it was interesting that Chrono24's co founder called it that because, in fact, their traffic spiked following that announcement. So in some sense, it's partly a compliment. But one thing you have to understand about the watch industry is that the insiders are feel very strongly about these things. And talking to our contributing writer Robin Swithinbank over these past few days, he's really tapped into the industry and he's had so many angry messages from people inside the industry because they feel very strongly about protecting the industry, and if they think something's going wrong or looks makes the industry look bad, they get really, really upset. So there's been a lot of insider grumbling and, you know, how could they get this wrong? SWAT should have known they've done this before. So it's a very emotional response from within the industry, which has been very interesting.
- [14:04]
B
Those people are also gatekeepers. I don't mean that as an offense, but like, part of why people are into high end watches is because it's such a, it's such a status signifier. Right. It's a status symbol. And I think the look of just the mass participation in this trend and letting all these plebeians into the world of Audemars Piguet, you know, I think underneath a lot of the negative sentiment, it's that idea of accessibility and how offensive accessibility is to certain people and
- [14:48]
A
probably that it to a lot of people inherently runs counter to the luxury value proposition of it all. I want to ask both of you. So there's definitely obviously benefits to both brands here, even if it's a little murky to eke out what those benefits are. But for AP and Force Watch, if they're going to take advantage of this moment, what does their next best move look like?
- [15:12]
B
I think what Gap Inc. Has proven over the last three years is that consistently showing up in culture, creating not one but a stream of moments is a viable tactic for recovering growth and driving sales and driving excitement. And so I think for Swatch, the question is, how do you turn this sort of one off moment into a permanent strategy? How do you create other, maybe smaller, maybe less chaotic moments in the future and keep on building that momentum? Because if you don't build that momentum, this was just, you know, this just happened in a vacuum. I was skeptical actually of the Gap strategy of just hammering these, these, these red carpet moments, these high profile advertisements, but it's really worked out for them and I think Swatch group could follow a similar trajectory.
- [16:17]
A
Absolutely. And I mean, I also think that's the difference between one viral moment when it becomes a gimmick versus when it shows forward motion. And that is a sustained strategy and not a one off. Mimosa, why don't you take ap, what's their next best move to make this work for them and not against them.
- [16:33]
C
Actually, I think what Kat was saying about Swatch also applies to AP in an interesting way. If, you know, they've got to keep this conversation going, they've got to stay engaged, They've got to find a way to stay engaged. They're mastering the top, top level. So I think that they should parlay on this bursting into the scene with a broader audience and keep feeding the narrative. When it comes to the very high end, I'm sure that they'll be protecting that very, very carefully. A big brands straddle the high and the low. And I mean, I don't think we'll expect a lot of these kinds of collaborations from them in the future. But they'll find ways to, to stay in the conversation that might be more through celebrities or, you know, people who are well known and that sort of thing. It's my prediction.
- [17:25]
A
I bet that someone at AP is saying never again in a boardroom. So let's do a, let's do a lightning round before we close out. Three quick things that I want to get both of your thoughts on. First, the pocket watch format. So, Cat, we talked about this a little bit earlier. Like, it's kind of cute, but it also is kind of not something you see often, which could be a good thing. But does this stick or does this become corny after the first instance?
- [17:48]
B
Kat Definitely corny. You can't, you can't repeat some of these formulas. And I like to edit my statement. Some of the colorways are cute. Some of them are a little bit garish. I would, I would not go for them.
- [18:04]
A
Mimosa. Do you see a trend of pocket watches? Are we all going to be walking down the high street with pocket watches dangling?
- [18:12]
C
I don't, I don't think that pocket watches are going to save the Swiss watch industry.
- [18:18]
A
Another one. So cues outside of Swatch stores, is that proof of real consumer demand or is that just scarcity theater? I. I'm on the fence. Mimosa.
- [18:27]
C
There are a lot of flippers out there. Flippers as in people who are buying them to make a quick buck. And that's going to be the real question, because with these kinds of collaborations, it's typical for the prices to be sky high in the beginning and then, you know, let's see where they settle down after the. The hype eases off.
- [18:47]
B
I think in the case of Swatch, right now, these cues are real. But I want to note that for a lot of luxury boutiques, the cues are fake, or at least unnecessary. They're sort of done up. And that served brands really well three, four years ago when TikTok was still emerging. But I'm going to say it. Lines are over. People are sick of lines. I don't think they're necessarily driving the same kind of hype. You know, in New York, it's like you walk past a big line of people, I don't know, waiting for Froyer or whatever. And it's a big IRO moment. Right. And so I, I think the masses are catching up to that. And I think artificial cues can be dangerous.
- [19:31]
A
Agreed. And I think we're all just tired. Like, if I see a line, I am just not doing it. AP Reaching younger consumers through Swatch Is this truly a long term client recruitment strategy or a one off pr when we kind of flicked at this earlier but like one word answer, yes or no for the long haul or is this just going to be a one off that doesn't translate or convert down the line?
- [19:51]
C
I think it plants a seed. So I would say yes. Maybe not with many people but if there's one out of the masses $150,000
- [20:00]
A
watch $150,000 watch purchase is probably very good.
- [20:06]
B
I'm going to say no because both of the CEOs have been really adamant that this Swatch nap, this tie up in particular will be a one off. I mean that definitely helped drive the hype. I do think the celebrity watch interest is going to continue. Help AP be in culture. You know, it's like I remember reading the news about Kylie Jenner wearing a Royal oak and I was thinking, oh man, lucky her. So I think, I think that that kind of thing is, is going to be a more sort of sustained equity building.
- [20:45]
A
Absolutely. Well, that is a nice note to end on. Kat Moza, thank you so much for joining us today.
- [20:51]
B
Of course, it was my pleasure.
- [20:53]
C
Thanks so much, Sina.
- [20:55]
A
Please be sure to check out Kat's article How Swatch and Audemars Begay Defied collaboration fatigue and Mimosa's luxury industry coverage@businessofashion.com these and other stories are available available to BOF Professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the Debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Angel Nemov. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:37]
D
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