Making Sense of Fashion’s Brutal Job Market

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Business of Fashion Podcast

Episode: Making Sense of Fashion’s Brutal Job Market

Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Senior Correspondent Sheena Butler Young, Executive Editor Brian Baskin
Guest: Sophie Sore, BoF Careers

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the challenging realities of fashion’s current job market, focusing on two connected trends: the industry’s move away from remote work and the intensifying difficulty for young professionals and recent graduates to break into coveted roles. Through first-hand reporting and insights from BoF's careers team, the episode provides hard data, nuanced perspectives, and actionable advice for both job-seekers and employers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fall of Remote Work in Fashion

(00:32–09:13)

• Fashion's Post-Pandemic Shift:
  Remote work, once adopted out of necessity during lockdown, is rapidly declining in favor of a return to the office.

  “Remote first is apparently out; companies that settled on three days in the office are now testing four, and some are pushing to the more consequential five days like pre-Covid times.” — Brian Baskin (00:32)

• Productivity vs. Collaboration:
  Companies realized productivity isn’t solely about output—it includes collaboration, morale, and culture.

  “Productivity should also include collaboration, morale, people being together, you know, facetime with leaders.” — Sheena Butler Young (02:11)

• Leaders’ Perspectives:
  Executive buy-in for returning is strong, often citing issues with remote teamwork and mistake rates.

  • Example: Max Ma, CEO of 7th Online, noticed a rise in costly software mistakes during remote work.

    “He tracked their mistakes...nearly every mistake they made...over those three years were due to, in his opinion...people working from home.” — Sheena Butler Young (04:26)

• Industry-wide Inertia & Motives:
  Some companies push in-office mandates simply because others are—even if their own productivity isn’t suffering.

  “Companies are doing what you just described, which is like everyone else is bringing people back. So I should as well...Or if we're being completely honest, there's things like, oh, I paid for this real estate, so you should all use it.” — Sheena Butler Young (06:55)

• Negative Side-Effects:
  Forcing office returns can be a covert way to encourage voluntary resignations, avoiding layoffs.

  “...A way you can get people to effectively fire themselves is to make them come to the office.” — Sheena Butler Young (08:04)

Notable Quote

“I think it's a fair, if harsh, observation...people [may] have to basically opt out of being able to work at their employer of choice if their lifestyle can’t accommodate being back in the office.” — Sophie Sore (08:22)

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2. Employee Desires & Generational Differences

(09:13–12:24)

• Gen Z Surprises:
  Despite stereotypes, many Gen Z workers want to be back in the office, especially in cities like New York.

  “A lot of recruiters and experts say that it’s [Gen Z] that want to be in the office...They want to be at the shows, in the showrooms, looking at product.” — Sheena Butler Young (09:32)

• Older Generations Value Flexibility:
  Millennials, Gen X, and above—often with caregiving responsibilities—are stronger proponents of remote or hybrid options.

  “It's the Gen X and above...they’re the ones that are advocating for less time in the office…advocating or at least preferring to have more time at home.” — Sheena Butler Young (09:57)

• Ideal Hybrid Preference:
  BoF Careers’ 2025 survey: Most professionals (across generations) prefer a “three days in, two days out” hybrid model.

  “Last year, BoF Careers surveyed over a thousand individuals…three days in the office, two days remote, was the most popular across all the different ages.” — Sophie Sore (11:00)

• Mentorship Value:
  Younger workers increasingly recognize the value of in-person learning and mentorship lost during COVID disruption.

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3. Fashion’s Toughest Job Market in Years

(12:24–23:50)

• Rising Youth Unemployment:
  Hard data confirms the market’s toughness.

  “Unemployment among 23 to 27 year olds climbed to roughly 4.6% in 2025...underemployment is at its highest level in years.” — Sheena Butler Young (12:43)

• Impact of AI:
  AI automation is eating away at entry-level, rote positions—especially those like copywriting.

  “A lot of them are citing AI taking on a lot of junior level work that they could have gotten.” — Sheena Butler Young (13:23)

• Limited Industry Growth:
  Fashion, arts, and entertainment are forecasted for sluggish growth (2-3% next decade), constraining new opportunities.

• Comparisons to Past Industry Slumps:
  Brian Baskin likens it to the early-2000s media recession: when industries don’t grow, new talent is left out.

Notable Quote

“It's the people with the shortest resumes and the least experience who might from that.” — Brian Baskin (14:44)

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4. Strategies & Solutions for Breaking In

(17:33–23:50)

• Retail as a Gateway:
  The job market isn’t “frozen”—but most openings are in retail, not creative or headquarters roles.

  “I saw that a lot of the jobs were in retail—670 retail roles compared to 90 roles in like fashion and design.” — Sheena Butler Young (18:37)

• Getting Creative with Entry:
  New grads are pursuing sales, hospitality, and even restaurant roles in fashionable cities to make connections and gain experience.

  “Maybe the start isn't...at the big internship at LVMH. Maybe it is on the sales floor...working in restaurants and hostesses jobs in cities like London or LA or New York…you meet like an executive from a brand in that space.” — Sheena Butler Young (18:37)

• The Value of Customer-Facing Roles:
  Retail/restaurant work improves soft skills, customer insight, and may position you for upward movement, with some companies now promoting retail-to-HQ pipelines.

  “There is so much opportunity in being able to engage with a brand...including then thinking about how you can leverage those skill sets for a career later on.” — Sophie Sore (20:01)

• The Human Touch is Back:
  With AI on the rise, qualities that emphasize “human-ness”—interpersonal skills, initiative (e.g., bringing physical portfolios)—are newly prized.

  “I've heard people talk about even just printing out their Portfolios again in 2026 versus like sending people to your website or your Instagram. There is a real...apparent swing to...more traditional, conventional ways of doing things.” — Sheena Butler Young (22:07)

Notable Quote

“If you bring it, bring it very well done and very edited...Scissors are your words. That is the main advice to take away here.” — Sheena Butler Young (24:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On declining remote work:

  “There does seem like there’s no upside anymore for companies to let people work from home and it’s just a matter of whether they can get people to do it or not.” — Brian Baskin (06:34)

• On systemic shifts:

  “During the pandemic, employers widened their talent pool...If they're then revoking that and potentially losing members...it's something that they really have to consider.” — Sophie Sore (08:22)

• On breaking into the industry:

  “Most people are doing a combination...if they're going to be successful.” — Sheena Butler Young (19:46)

• Advice for aspiring professionals:

  “Curate that portfolio...If you bring it, bring it very well done and very edited.” — Sheena Butler Young (24:09)

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Timestamps for Major Topics

• 00:32–03:50: The evolution and motivations behind return-to-office mandates
• 03:50–06:55: Leadership attitudes & reasons for in-person work
• 08:15–09:13: Hard employer tactics (mandates as attrition tools)
• 09:13–12:24: Generational attitudes toward office vs. remote work
• 12:24–15:00: Data on youth unemployment and slowed industry growth
• 17:33–20:01: Entry-level job realities & nontraditional pathways
• 22:07–24:09: The “human touch” and physical portfolios making a comeback

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Takeaways & Actionable Tips

• For job-seekers:

  • Consider nontraditional or indirect pathways into fashion—retail, hospitality, and customer-facing roles are gateways, not dead ends.
  • Play up your interpersonal and problem-solving skills—qualities not replicable by AI.
  • Presentation matters: physical portfolios, a memorable human touch, and flexibility can help you stand out.

• For employers:

  • Weigh the trade-offs of remote vs. in-person policies—consider your company culture needs and existing workforce realities.
  • Recognize and leverage the potential in retail and entry-level talent pools.
  • Be clear and intentional in return-to-office mandates, considering past decisions and current workforce needs.

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Episode Tone

The discussion is candid, fact-driven, and supportive, blending tough realities with practical encouragement. The hosts and their guest maintain an engaging, conversational style—balancing hard data, anecdotes, and actionable advice with empathy for the struggles faced by newcomers and employers alike.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to the debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.

[A]

And I'm executive editor Brian Baskin. So usually this is where I give a little spiel about what we're talking about and introduce our guest. But today we're actually talking about one of your articles, Sheena.

[B]

Actually, we're talking about two of them. One is about the fall of remote work. So across fashion, remote first is apparently out companies that settled on three days in the office are now testing four, and some are pushing to the more consequential five days like pre Covid times.

[A]

And I am sure our listeners are just thrilled to hear that.

[B]

Well, it gets better. That's if you can get a job, you have the option to go in the office or be remote. So the labor market is very challenging right now. And so the second article looks at how tough it is to get a job, but there are solutions.

[A]

And also with us today to talk about some of those solutions is Sophie Sore from BoF Careers. She's going to tell us about what she's been hearing from the fashion and beauty companies that she works with and give some tips for how people can get their foot in the door in the industry in these challenging times. Sophie, welcome to the debrief.

[C]

Thank you, Brian. Thanks, Sheena, for having me.

[A]

All right, so Sophie, we'll get to you in a second. But Sheena, why don't you tell us first this return to the office, I feel like we'd been hearing about it ever since the lockdowns lift. But there was this long, longer than many people expected period when remote work seemed like maybe it was going to take hold. And it seems like your story just dashed the last vestige of hope we had about that.

[B]

Yeah, well, that was not the intention. I feel like I've been saying that for about every day since the story came out that it was not intended to dash all hopes around remote work. I would step back a little bit because I think the return to being in the office more has been happening for probably two or three years. And people sometimes forget that the reason that fashion and many industries embraced remote work was by force, Right? Like we had a global health crisis and everybody had to go remote. And what a lot of companies and talent discovered was that they could be just as in some cases, more productive if they were working from home. But that was when we defined productivity by we probably still do. But productivity is defined as output. So you know me as a reporter at BoF, if my output is one story for 40 hours a week working from home, maybe I do two. Which is not true, right? That is correct. But, but it's, it is actually, it's based on how much you deliver in a certain amount of hours. I think what companies and talent discovered in the course of those years is that productivity should also include collaboration, morale, people being together, you know, facetime with leaders. And so I think that was where you start to see the trickle of we need to be hybrid. We need to have not just people, you know, putting out a lot of whatever it is they produce, but being together as a team so that they can grow and we can have culture. We were also in an employ market during the pandemic. As Brian, you probably remember I was writing all those stories about quiet quitting and the great resignation and people were making these requests for a lot of flexibility. I want to work from my, my beach home in the summer and maybe do this other thing in the winter. And you know, there was a lot of leverage on the employee side in 2025 and now into 2026, it's looking more like an employer's market. The economy is, is seeing a lot of pressure and fashion companies are, have been doing layoffs and AI is taking some job. Think what we're seeing is the product of maybe a lot of leaders having leverage to push to more days in the office and do some of these mandates.

[A]

Yeah, we'll get to the tough job market in a minute. But what I find interesting is that the leaders themselves are so gung ho about this. I mean, they're, they're. You know, again, there really did seem like a moment when even the CEOs were saying, hey, remote work has some advantages. I don't mind doing it. It's good for morale. That balances out some of the productivity issues. But tell us about the retail software company 7th Online. You spoke to their CE and they've, they've quite forcefully swung back from a pretty lenient work from home policy to having everyone in pretty much all the time. And, and there were some real specific reasons for that.

[B]

So they might take issue with us calling it a forceful return, but it is a retail software company that works with brands like Patagonia or like all the PVH brands, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, etc. On their software. And so what Max Ma said when I had a conversation with him, the CEO, was that he noticed that in the three Years that they were mostly remote, which was the. You 20, 20, 2021, when we were talking about masks and vaccines and all that stuff. So lockdowns are still sort of happening. They tracked their. The mistakes they were making with their software. And nearly every mistake they made with their software over those three years were due to, in his opinion, through the data people working from. From home.

[A]

In what sense? I mean, how did the fact that they were at home and not in the office lead to these mistakes?

[B]

Well, it's a very specific thing and I'm glad you asked it because it's. They're making software. And so the way he described it, generally successful as a software provider. If most of the time your software works as intended. Right. So like if you have an iPhone and when you use it every day it's doing everything right, there are cases maybe like 5% of the time where a software glitches in a way that's not intended. Those issues when they came up, he felt like almost every time it was due to someone making a mistake on Zoom or on Slack and not being in person to recognize or prevent those glitches.

[A]

Interesting. Sophie, let's bring you in here. I mean, how typical is this experience both in a company saying everyone needs to be back in the office five days a week and in the reasons for doing that?

[C]

I think there's quite a balance at the moment, to be honest, in terms of those who are trying to get their employees back in the office and those who are not. And I think it kind of goes to Sheena's point earlier, where it went from being like a requirement, then moving into the idea of presenting it as a benefit or a perk and those who are still continuing to roll it out as a benefit or a perk, as an employer and having a workforce that's adjusted to that, that they need to account for, versus those who believe and are mandating that being back in the office is going to be much more effective for everybody involved.

[A]

Yeah, it does seem like a mindset shift. I definitely heard after Sheena, after your story ran of, a couple of people said, oh, my CEO dropped this story on my desk and said, hey, what do you think of this? And these were companies where they were already back four days a. It just seems like there's no upside anymore for companies to let people work from home and it's just a matter of whether they can get people to do it or not.

[B]

I don't know if I agree. I think also, by the way, I'll say this for the third time maybe. But that was not the intended use of the article, was not for CEOs to, to send it around their companies and say, here, look at this, you can come back five days a week. I think there, I think it does make you competitive if you have some form of flexibility in your work from home, like whatever your arrangements are with the office. What I think could be happen happening that is not positive, is that companies are doing what you just described, which is like everyone else is bringing people back. So I should as well. So there was one recruiter, Damien Chiem, that I talked to for the article. He, he mentioned that if you're seeing productivity, high, morale high at having your teams in one to two days a week or maybe three days a week, then you need to ask yourself, what am I hoping to accomplish if I move it to 4, if I move it to 5? And I don't know that companies have the answer beyond maybe. Well, you know, the retailer across the street has everybody in five days a week. Or if we're being completely honest, there's things like, oh, I paid for this real estate, so you should all use it. And then the, the worst reason, I think, is in a challenging job market, a lot of companies don't know if they want to have the headline of a layoff if they feel like they need to reduce teams. So a one way you can get people to effectively fire themselves is to make them come to the office.

[A]

Quite sinister, I think. I think it's no doubt.

[B]

So I think no doubt happening.

[A]

Sophie, is there anything you want to add there?

[C]

I think it's a fair if, if harsh observation from Sheila there, but you will see people having to basically opt out of being able to work at their, potentially their employer of choice if their lifestyle simply cannot accommodate for being back in the office. But I also think that the employer needs to really think about what their role was in facilitating that. If you think about during the lockdown and during the pandemic, employers were really able to widen their talent pool because they were hiring with a remote first mindset in mind. So if they're then revoking that and potentially losing members of their workforce as a result, because the individuals at hand can't actually facilitate coming into the office because their commute's too long, they've got family members dependent on them, whatever it might be. It's something that they really have to consider.

[A]

That's a really good point. Enough about the CEOs, let's talk about what the employees want. Sheena, from your Story like, it wasn't as neat a divide as you'd expect. And it was actually Gen Z, younger employees, the most online people, who were most interested in coming back to the office.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, as the tale goes, Gen Z got the bad rep for being the quiet quitters, the ones that joined the workforce, or most of them joined the workforce at the height of the pandemic. And maybe they wanted to be, I don't know, at home in their snuggies, on their devices, making TikToks. But, you know, a lot of recruiters and experts say that it's them that want to be in the office. I mean, think about big cities like New York, where they have maybe small apartments and they came here to have these careers. They want to be in the office. They want to be, if it's fashion, they want to be at the shows, they want to be in the showrooms looking at product. They actually want that in person. It is. The Gen X and above, they say are elder Millennials. Let me put myself in the equation. The millennials and above that are now parents, or maybe they're dealing with aging parents, or they have have other caregiving responsibilities. They're also more senior in their careers. They're the ones that are advocating for less time in the office, or maybe they're not advocating outright, but they prefer to have more time at home. And that's challenging, obviously, because I think we, me, millennials, we were beneficiaries of that FaceTime like I remember. I don't know about you, Brian, but a couple of my first promotions were because I was in the office and I could, like, show what I could do. I could be a culture builder and all those things that make you an asset to a team. And I think Gen Z is recognizing something they're missing out on without being there more often. Now, that's not to say all Gen Zs want to be in the office, but I think it's definitely a twist on what conventional wisdom was.

[C]

I'd love to add as well, actually. Like last year, BoF Korea surveyed over a thousand individuals across fashion and beauty from over 70 countries. And there was one of the questions that we asked was how many days in the office would you want to be in an ideal world? And we saw that three days in the office, two days remote, was the most popular across all the different ages, ages that we were, that we were surveying. And then after that, there was a slight split generationally. But it was. There wasn't a huge amount in it to be totally Honest with you. And younger generations slightly skewed more towards then going to two days in the office. And older generations slightly skewed towards four days in the office. But that said, I do think though, as you've been saying, Sheena, that actually as more time passes, I think there is this realization for sure in how much value there really is in that in person facetime training experience that is really coming to the fore when we're seeing younger generations coming in and realizing just how valuable it is to be gaining that leadership, that mentorship, that one on one experience that frankly a lot didn't have access to during the pandemic through their education or through their entry level junior roles which were so heavily disrupted by the pandemic.

[A]

I think that's an excellent transition to our next topic, which is about the barriers some of those Gen Z members of the workforce are facing as they're trying to get their foot in the door in the fashion industry. Now Sheena, I know this is your, your next story that you're working on. Tell us what you've been hearing. I mean, what, what, why did you decide to pick up this topic?

[B]

Well, I think fashion, as we all know, and journalism too is they've always been competitive, tough industries to break into. But there's new data or recent data over the past year that shows that that competition in the labor market is even more intense than it's ever been. One data point that I'd like to call out. So unemployment among 23 to 27 year olds climbed to roughly 4.6% in 2025 and that is up from the low 3 percentage range in 2019, which also stayed low in 2020 with the pandemic. And underemployment is at its highest level in years. And so underemployment is those, those are people that are working in part time jobs when they want to be full time or working in sectors that they don't actually aspire to work in. And so that's at an all time low. And at the same time industries like fashion, like arts, things that are related, like entertainment, those are also not projected to grow at, if they, if they do grow 2 to 3% over the next decade. So there is actual objective data showing that it's a tough labor market. And then I spoke to a few recent grads and a lot of them are citing, you know, AI taking on a lot of junior level work that they could have gotten. So someone I spoke to that has a degree in fashion design mentioned fashion design with an emphasis on marketing, mentioned that she would have taken a copywriting role as her first job out of college. But those are few and far between, if they exist at all. So there's actual objective data showing it. And then you talk to people anecdotally and they're, they're describing an industry that, that I did not experience 10, 12 years ago. There's, it's definitely feels tougher.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, actually it sounds a bit like when, when I was starting out in the media and you know, is that post.com bubble dates me a little bit. But you know, post.com bubble, post 911 media recession that was happening, there were layoffs, it was a very stagnant industry. Hasn't gotten too much better since then. But you know, it's just a fact when, when businesses aren't growing, they don't tend to do a lot of hiring. And it's, it's the, the people with the, the shortest resumes and the least experience who might from that. We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.

[D]

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[E]

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[F]

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[E]

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[F]

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[A]

Love you. Sophie, what are what have you been seeing? I mean BOF has a jobs platform, there's companies advertising positions. I mean, does it feel to you like there's fewer of these entry level jobs out there?

[C]

I believe individuals are still hiring for businesses are still hiring for entry level jobs at the moment, but there definitely is a squeeze on the ones that are considered more more rope work I guess, so to speak that you know, you could automate for. You could potentially look at using a AI software or whatever it might be to to try and replace. But I would say it kind of splits across those who place the value in hiring in entry level talent and really nurturing that talent versus those who are looking for sort of a short term win and having a not hiring for junior roles and saving some money in that respect. And I think that's sort of what distinguishes those who are currently still hiring for entry level roles at the moment in a difficult jobs market because they recognize the benefit that that entry level talent can and will bring with them, which is to be more diverse across the demographics that they have within the business and the new talent that they can hopefully not just introduce to the business but also retain in the business long term them.

[B]

To your point, Sophie, I think it was interesting because I did in my research look at the BOF careers platform and sort of some of the job openings and there was a there's proof that the job market is tough, but it's not frozen. So I saw that a lot of the jobs were in retail, so there was like 670 retail roles compared to 90 roles in like fashion and design. And what that told me is that I think recent grads, early career professionals, have to be more thoughtful about making that bridge between what they find desirable and what's actually attainable. So a lot of students, I think they are doing that, they're starting to think about not detours, but other ways into that dream job. So if the goal is to be, you know, a womenswear designer or you know, creative director or even in a C suite role at a big retail company, maybe the start isn't, you know, at the big internship at lvmh. Maybe it is on the sales floor. I had some students talk about or recent grads talk about doing things like working in restaurants and hostesses jobs in cities like London or LA or New York, because that's where the scene is. And rather than maybe taking a standard retail job role, but something else that puts you around other collaborators or creatives or maybe you meet like an executive from a brand in that space versus the more traditional path. Most people are doing a combination of all of the above if they're going to be successful.

[C]

Absolutely. And I think, to be honest, like hospitality as well as thinking about, you know, retail shop floor experience that touch point with a end consumer and really understanding what that experience can be will in my opinion, only ever stand you in good stead as a very early start in your career if that is the way that you want to try and explore a route into fashion or beauty, for example. I think you make a really good point as well, Sheena, in that there is so much opportunity in being able to engage with a brand, being able to engage with all sorts of different elements that sit within the shop floor, including new technology and including then thinking about how it is you can leverage those skill sets for a career later on in potentially a different avenue if you don't want to continue working in retail. But again, I think thinking about the employer side of things, it's also about. And I think we're seeing more and more employers open up to this. One example sticking out in my mind right now is ESOP is really thinking about making that connection from retail through to HQ and being able to. Adam Lukowski from the National Retail foundation said this previously to me, it's about basically fishing in your own pond in terms of talent pool and really thinking about how it is you can try and open up that avenue and that will in turn make hopefully a retail role more enticing for that entry level job market that is still, as you say, not Totally frozen but potentially a little bit more stagnant in areas like internships in HQ range roles.

[A]

That's really encouraging because it did feel like there was a while where, where those entry level retail kind of roles were seen as dead ends and companies weren't promoting that. The, the stereotype of the, the person who starts out in the store and ends up as the CEO that that dream was dead and. But I've noticed that Sheena and like a through line in a lot of your stories that companies seem much more open than even a few years ago to looking at that as a talent pool and not just the cheap labor that that makes the sales.

[B]

Yeah, I think this is one of those things that might be also related to the increase in using AI and finding people that have a more human touch about them or that have engaged with human beings and maybe are getting out of the digital. The digital first of it all. I think that's driving. It's sort of what I've been calling what's, what's old is new again. So I think retailers still have work to do to actually, to Sophie's point, build the pipeline from the store to the corporate like and not just theoretically, but actually make sure that they initiate or put their budgets into some of those programs that got people through Macy's and the Gap and you know, in the, in the 90s, like getting some of those back into operation or putting more investment in them. They think there's still work to be done there. But I've heard people talk about even just printing out their Portfolios again in 2026 versus like sending people to your website or your Instagram. Like I think there is a real small but, but definitely apparent swing to some of those more traditional, conventional ways of doing things. And we're seeing it in the like retailers being willing to go to the store. Aritzia CEO started out in Aritzia in 1989 and is now running the company. So we're definitely seeing that on that side and I think also just in the hiring side looking for things that are more human. Like sure you have a digital footprint and sure I can go to your Instagram, but isn't it nice when someone comes to the interview with the printed portfolio that someone described a recruiter described when I, when it's left on my desk I remember them versus I've having to go in my email and queuing up the website QR code or whatever it is so little things that make that emphasize the human side of what you do. Well, I think is helping people and maybe retailers and leaders are recognizing that more.

[C]

One thing I would add to that though, Sheena, is making sure you curate that portfolio where it just made me think of when I turned up to a job interview once with all of the newspapers that I had an article rather than taking a clipping from it. I bought the whole newspaper and there was a stack of awesome.

[E]

Love you.

[B]

If you bring it, bring it. Very well done and very edited.

[A]

Scissors are your words. That is the main advice to take away here. And on that note, Sophie, thank you so much for joining us today.

[C]

Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.

[A]

And Sheena, thank you for playing hybrid guest and host. I know that can be difficult, but you did a wonderful job in both roles.

[B]

Thank you Ryan. I will do it again.

[A]

Anyway, please be sure to check out Sheena's article Fashion is done with remote work [e-mail] these and other stories are available to BOF Professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes.

[B]

You've been listening to the debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Sheena Butler Young.

[A]

I'm Brian Baskin. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah, and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[F]

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[E]

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[F]

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