The Business of Fashion Podcast

Episode: "The Great Fashion Reset: Can Designer Debuts Revive Luxury?"

Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Sheena Butler-Young (Senior Correspondent, BoF)
Co-Host: Brian Baskin (Executive Editor, BoF)
Guest: Robert Williams (Luxury Correspondent at Large)

Episode Overview

This episode examines the luxury fashion industry's wave of new creative director debuts at major houses (such as Chanel, Gucci, and Dior) and explores whether these changes can pull luxury out of its current creative and commercial stagnation. The hosts and guest Robert Williams discuss what’s broken in luxury, how new creative leadership might help or hinder, and the evolving responsibilities of creative directors in an era defined by economic uncertainty, shifting consumer demographics, and sky-high price points.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Luxury Industry & the Need for a Reset

[02:33 – 04:15]

• The industry is undergoing its worst "creative and commercial funk in a decade or more," following two decades of steady luxury growth, which was further boosted after the pandemic.
• Robert Williams: “Brands see a new creative direction as a crucial step to re engaging with consumers.”
• Causes of the downturn are multi-layered:
  • Slowdown in key markets, especially China, and an only partially recovered US market.
  • Dramatic price hikes across brands, with luxury price points now requiring a stronger justification—whether craftsmanship, quality, or dazzling novelty.
  • "Continuity" in aesthetics is out; the moment demands disruptive thinking and bold visions.

Quote:

"We're at least two years into a pretty dramatic slowdown in luxury demand... How can they get people excited about fashion again? Showing people the same products, the same aesthetic, the same design...it's not really the moment for that kind of continuity."
— Robert Williams [02:41]

2. Creativity Fatigue vs. Macro Headwinds

[03:50 – 06:05]

• The slowdown is not just “creativity fatigue,” but driven by broader economic conditions:
  • “Higher prices plug into the kind of creativity people will actually buy.”
  • Entry-level and Gen Z customers have not returned post-pandemic, even as ultra-wealthy clients remain resilient (in the West).
  • Price increases can't be justified by marketing alone; either the intrinsic product value or the design needs to match.

Quote:

"...if the price is going to be so much higher, either the quality or the technical craftsmanship element of the product needs to...be improved. Or also maybe the creative can be improved. You know, if it's newer, a fresher design, more exciting, that can help justify these higher prices, too."
— Robert Williams [04:15]

3. Runway: Signal or Solution?

[06:05 – 07:40]

• September and October fashion weeks will showcase most debuts in Milan and Paris.
• Runways offer “only hints” of true strategy—brands will either double down on top-tier, ‘quiet luxury’ craftsmanship, or pivot to bold new identities.
• The balance between craft/heritage and relevance is delicate: too much tradition is "boring," too much fashion is risky for large, multi-billion labels.

Quote:

"...if things are just about heritage and craft, that could be quite boring as a narrative...you need something to make the brand relevant and of the moment."
— Robert Williams [07:55]

4. Brand Case Studies: Approaches to Reset

a. Bottega Veneta & The Craftsmanship Narrative

[07:55 – 09:56]

• Bottega’s future with Louise Trotter predicted to lean more into restrained, high-quality craftsmanship, referencing her work at Carven.

b. Gucci’s High-Stakes Debut with Demna

[12:55 – 19:59]

• Post-Alessandro Michele, Gucci tried a pared-back approach with Sabato di Sarno; sales dropped 20% YoY for two years.
• New creative director Demna is “under a lot of pressure.”
  • Known for merging “the uncanny” with mass appeal, and having redefined what luxury looks like for a new generation at Balenciaga and Vetements.
  • The brand is betting he can conjure another zeitgeist shift at Gucci.

Memorable Moment:

"They really kind of threw the kitchen sink at the customer...And they were able to do a lot of these things at once and kind of make a coherent narrative with it. It was a really, you know, big moment for fashion."
— Robert Williams [13:29]

c. Chanel’s Mandate: Restoring Perceived Value

[22:50 – 26:46]

• With Blasi at the helm, Chanel is expected to emphasize visible, feelable craftsmanship to combat internet-fueled critiques about value-for-money.
• The brand’s stability and scale mean change will be slow and methodical, but buyers want justification for price tags—luxury must “engage with craftsmanship.”

Quote:

"I think Chanel was previously...an unassailable brand...the idea that the Internet would be populated with women complaining about their Chanel was not something I had on my bingo card."
— Robert Williams [24:55]

d. Dior and Viral Teasers

[26:46 – 29:35]

• Jonathan Anderson’s approach is visually bold and more challenging than predecessors (especially compared to Maria Grazia Chiuri’s commercial prettiness).
• Emphasis on creating red carpet viral moments before the runway show—a newer strategy to generate digital buzz and shift perception in real time.

Memorable Exchange:

C: "Is that the official term?"
D: "Historic French fashion? I do believe it is officially a faux cout, A fake ass dress."
— [28:46–28:58]

e. Celine and the Dilemmas of Continuity

[30:50 – 33:58]

• Eddie Slimane leaves, Michael Ryder steps in. First campaign heavily resembles Slimane’s aesthetic, prompting Slimane’s subtle online jab.
• The necessity (and challenge) of changing brand image without alienating core customers—even post-designer transition.

5. The New Job of the Creative Director

[10:06 – 12:38]

• The “radical transformation” era is over—massive luxury brands can’t afford to alienate old customers for new.
• Creative directors today must juggle excitement, economic pressure, and existing identity without “confusing people.”

Quote:

"You have to strike a really tricky balance between getting people excited about these brands again...but not, you know, confusing people."
— Robert Williams [10:06]

6. Lightning Round: Signals, Mistakes & Surprises

[34:13 – 37:41]

• Key Signal to Watch: The “follow through”—which brands can keep excitement alive after the debut, across editorial content, campaigns, and red carpets.
• Biggest Debut Mistake: Overreaching beyond what’s deliverable. “A slightly boring debut...can be better than one that tries to do something huge and radical and then it just feels off.”
• Wild Card Brand: Margiela. With Glenn Martens leading a total image rethinking, can a formerly “anonymous” label pull off a Kardashian-scale pop culture move without losing brand soul?

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "I think brands that have tried to scrap their old business and just count on a new one coming in, they've been burned in recent years."
  — Robert Williams [10:06]
• "It feels like a bigger risk to take a chance on a trendy, seasonal hot piece now than it did five or 10 years ago because the price is much higher."
  — Robert Williams [12:03]
• "When you have these grayscale images, set in these little boxes with this boldface logo beneath it, you can’t just throw that out from one day to the next..."
  — Robert Williams [33:58]
• "A slightly boring or circumscribed debut...can be better than one that tries to do something huge and radical and then it just feels off."
  — Robert Williams [35:45]
• "Whether or not the market's going to get on board with that is...a big question. But...it seems like they've come in guns blazing but not in a haphazard way."
  — Robert Williams on Margiela [36:34]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:33] State of the Industry – what’s broken in luxury
• [03:50] Creativity fatigue vs macroeconomic issues
• [06:05] Is craftsmanship or identity more important now?
• [12:55] Deep dive: Gucci’s decline and Demna’s challenge
• [22:50] Chanel’s new creative mandate
• [26:46] Dior’s modern teaser tactics
• [30:50] Celine’s transition pains & Eddie Slimane’s commentary
• [34:13] Lightning round: signals to watch and big mistakes
• [36:31] Margiela as wild card for the season

Overall Tone & Takeaway

The episode strikes a candid, sometimes humorous but always insightful tone, dissecting how luxury brands are betting on new creative leads to move the needle. Yet, as the discussion reveals, revitalizing luxury is no longer about mere star power—brands must balance hype and heritage, creativity and commercial caution, visibility and value. The industry’s great reset is underway, but its outcome is far from guaranteed.

For further reading:
Check out Robert Williams’ article "Can Designer Revamps Save Fashion?" and the rest of BoF’s "Great Fashion Reset" coverage at businessoffashion.com.