← The Business of Fashion Podcast
The Business of Fashion Podcast
What Fashion and Beauty Talent Want in 2025
00:28:59
Fashion professionals are rethinking what matters at work – from transparent leadership to meaningful flexibility and fair pay. Sheena Butler-Young and Sophie Soar dig into BoF Career’s new report on what it takes to attract and retain top talent.
Loading summary
Transcript44 lines
- [00:00]
Fiji Water Representative
As it starts to get warmer outside. I love to keep Fiji Water on hand to keep hydrated and refreshed. It really is from the islands of Fiji. Drop by drop, Fiji water is filtered through volcanic rock 1600 miles away from the nearest continent, protected and preserved naturally from external elements. In this process, it collects a unique profile of electrolytes and minerals, resulting in more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving Fiji Water its soft, smooth tast. Unlike some other premium bottled waters, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring and this water even has a perfectly balanced ph of 7.7. Visit your local retailer to pick up some Fiji Water today for your next backyard party, beach or pool day hike, or even your home office. Fiji Water is Earth's finest water.
- [01:01]
Sheena Butler Young
Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fash, where each week we delve into our most popular BOF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young. In the five years since the pandemic, fashion workplaces have undergone seismic change. Set against a backdrop of geopolitical tension, economic volatility and a deepening climate crisis, a workplace reckoning is underway with employees re evaluating what truly matters at work today. Talent is more restless than ever, job satisfaction is low, and nearly half of professionals are actively seeking new roles, according to BOF Careers new report. Joining us today is BOF Careers Editor Sophie Sor, who co authored the 2025 Careers Report to break down what fashion and beauty talent want from employers today and how companies can meet these new expectations. Hi Sophie, welcome back to the Debrief podcast.
- [01:58]
Sophie Sor
Hi Sheena, thanks for having me.
- [02:17]
Sheena Butler Young
So can we start with that figure that I think jumped out at everybody on this report, which is that about 45% of professionals in fashion and beauty are actively seeking new job opportunities. Is this people like going on LinkedIn and clicking on easy applies like throughout their day casually? Or is this people like really, I hate my job. I'm looking for something new right now. Help us understand.
- [02:39]
Sophie Sor
So absolutely we wanted to understand the sort of distinction across those different nuances. As you just mentioned there, we wanted to know who was actively looking for new opportunities both in their current company and also outside of it. We also wanted to know who was potentially quite happy in their current role and as a result not looking, but also those who are passively looking. And we actually wanted to understand in comparison to other surveys that is looking at general satisfaction in jobs to see where this response Sort of leveled out. So we looked at Gallup, the workplace consultancy, and the latest data that they have found that 50% of currently employed workers, this is across multiple industries and countries, say that they are actively seeking or, or watching for a new job. So in terms of then what we found in our survey, we found that 45% of working professionals are actively looking for new opportunities. So it's not that far behind that 50%. But this doesn't account for the watching for part of Gallup survey. We did however also find that 36% of working professionals are not looking for a new job, but may consider a change in the near future. So I'm thinking that's a little bit more like that passively scrolling through LinkedIn, seeing potentially what may or may not resonate. And that I think could be most compared to that sort of watching for reference. But you know, what I was really most interested in actually coming out of that particular aspect of the survey was that only 4% of working professionals were actively seeking a new job at their current place of work, which is actually a pretty low number.
- [04:22]
Sheena Butler Young
And so this career support is quite expansive. You want to talk us through over a thousand employees that currently work in fashion and beauty across all levels or most levels. Talk us through sort of the methodology and then I want to hear about those macro trends that are driving people to be on LinkedIn. Double clicking easy Apply.
- [04:42]
Sophie Sor
Sure, absolutely. We basically surveyed over a thousand individuals across fashion and beauty and we got a pretty well balanced response. Actually about 30% of respondents were aged 20 to 29. 30% again 30 to 39, 20%, 40 to 49, and then about 19% were 50 plus. It was really evenly split across different seniority levels as well, which was great to see. And then we wanted to sort of understand across the global industry as well. And we got responses from 74 countries and territories represented. So it was a very, very broad subset of individuals that responded.
- [05:23]
Sheena Butler Young
And how are the macroeconomics affecting how people feel right now about the fashion workplace or how the fashion workplace actually operates today? I mentioned a few of these in the introduction, like the geopolitical climate. Obviously we're only, maybe, I mean, I'm saying only, but we're five years into this hybrid work model situation. We also have five generations in the workplace now. We've never had that before. Talk us through the macro backdrop in a little more detail than what I just did.
- [05:51]
Sophie Sor
Sure. So this is what we open the report with because it's definitely important to try and contextualize how much change has happened literally over the last five years alone. And a couple of the sort of key macro trends that we called out includes financial insecurity. You just mentioned there about the sort of macroeconomic volatility that's really driving concern for today's workforce. Sort of irrespective of geography and generation, they are concerned about their financial security. Pay was the most important factor when assessing an employer today. For respondents of the BoF Korea survey, which perhaps is unsurprising, but it's just worth noting that sort of backdrop of financial insecurity and concern. But a couple of other sort of key macro trends that we also looked at too included this real demand for actually being back in the office. But on the employees terms, I would say, you know, they're really craving community. When we asked about preferences for being in the office or not, the majority said that they would prefer a hybrid schedule. So three or two days in the office, fully remote or fully in the office actually received pretty low scores. And that was, that was pretty well spread across different generations too. When we looked at the age cohort breakdowns, a couple of the sort of real motivating factors behind that included this idea of proximity to leadership managers and actually just those that you're collaborating with for career development, opportunity, for exposure, for learning, for improved communication. But also just generally speaking, we're seeing this real need for community because loneliness post pandemic is a key issue, especially among younger generations. There was one survey that we looked at outside of our own, which was conducted by a, a UK charity called Oxfam this year around Gen Z. And they found that 47% of Gen Z often feel lonely, with 28% saying that they do not feel connected to a community. So if you think about how much time you spend at work and how much time you spend in trying to foster that community at work, you can see why the office is actually in demand again. I think.
- [08:05]
Sheena Butler Young
Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I saw in the report that Gen Z, to some people's surprise, are the ones sort of leading this demand to be a little more present in the office. We hear this and I want you to help us reconcile this against the fact that you see these reports that come out that says, you know, XYZ companies demanding four days a week back in the office or five days back a week in the office. The operative set of words was on their terms, reconcile this for us that employees want to be back, but there's always a pushback when there is a return to the office. Is it that the companies are not showing up the way that they expect the talent to.
- [08:43]
Sophie Sor
I think it's actually a question of, yes, you can provide that space, you can provide an office and you can tell people that they have to come into the office. But if you are just providing a space that has a few desks and wi fi, that is not creating the right kind of environment, the right kind of setup for community, as well as a comprehensive and effective working culture. So as a result, it is about trying to optimize that in office experience. And I think one of the most critical components within that that came out as another key theme across the report is leadership and leadership turning up. If you want employees to be back in the office, then leaders need to be there as well. They need to lead by example and demonstrate that by turning up you have that ability to show up and to really engage those executive or even managers as well who are going to be working with you and developing you as a, as a talent.
- [09:46]
Sheena Butler Young
And on the point of the five generations in the workplace today, how does that affect how people build community or how the workplace operates in 2025? We've got boomers, we've got Gen Z and maybe some younger gen Alpha coming or older gen alpha coming in as interns. What does that look like? What are the opportunities and what are the friction points?
- [10:06]
Sophie Sor
So I know this is something that you and I have spoken about a lot in the past. Sheena, as you mentioned, you know, five gener is on paper a lot of differences to account for and to think about. But actually something that we explored within the report is the fact that actually segmenting generations by demographic needs isn't necessarily the most effective way of trying to understand what different generations want and need in a workplace. So for instance, we, if you're going to make generalizations and think about it, we know that there is a rise in sober socializing, something that you've reported on before among Gen Z talent. We know that a number of individuals who may have moved further afield during the pandemic will have become parents who, you know, may need to think about some of the different needs that they have. We may be accommodating for women's needs when they experience the menopause, potentially an older age, but not necessarily an older age in the workplace. So it's about recognizing that needs don't necessarily fit into convenient generational stereotypes because not all Gen Z are going to be sober socializing or into wealth and fitness. Not all baby boomers are insisting on being back in the office. In fact, we saw that for 50 plus. They actually, in terms of the age group that we surveyed, we actually saw that they were just as interested in a hybrid working experience than their younger counterparts. So it's more about accommodating for values and interests rather than segmenting by different demographics when thinking about how to potentially target a improved working experience across your workplace.
- [11:46]
Sheena Butler Young
And that falls in line with what a lot of marketers are doing today. It's the psychographics, not the demographics.
- [11:51]
Sophie Sor
Right, Exactly.
- [11:53]
Sheena Butler Young
So I want to talk about what today's workforce wants in addition to the flexibility in terms of being in the office, not being in the office. You mentioned that compensation is really, really important. You're right that you and I have had these conversations before. So I know, and you can correct me and give me context here, that pay is the most important thing up until a certain point. And then the fringe benefits, everything else that the company offers in their value proposition becomes that much more important. What is interesting right now is pay seems like it's having an outsized importance in terms of employee demands. Why is that?
- [12:27]
Sophie Sor
I think that again links back to the financial insecurity, but also the fact that individuals are recognizing their worth. They are making their demands for saying I should be paid for the experience, the expertise that I have. We did find that 44% of individuals across the board believe that they are undercompensated for their work. So there is obviously a sense of that. It is worth noting that even though, and something again you and I have spoken about before, even though Gen Z tend to get this bad rap that they are being unrealistic in terms of their pay expectations and compensation expectations, they actually displayed not necessarily the greatest satisfaction, I suppose, but they were less likely to say that they felt undercompensated compared to their older counterparts. They seem to be more willing to accept lower pay in exchange for the fact that they understand they don't have as much experience as their older counterparts in the workplace. So I think it's worth understanding there's obviously pay and compensation is important because of the macroeconomic climate and the fact that there is insecurity. Obviously we've come out of a cost of living crisis in some and other areas, still very much in the middle of a cost of living crisis. So it's just worth bearing in mind that there is that pinch. But then there's also this understanding of the fact that employees, I think, are understanding and demanding to be paid for their worth much more.
- [13:53]
Sheena Butler Young
Now, what is the role of transparency in all of this, I remember around roughly five years ago when those new laws were coming out here in the states, California and New York, requiring companies to list those salary bands or like the highest, highest versus the minimum pay they would offer for a role. And that felt very important, very topical. It sort of faded a little bit. How important is transparency in the pay conversation to the people you surveyed?
- [14:18]
Sophie Sor
Transparency was huge, actually. It was a major theme that came out both in the quantitative as well as the qualitative data. So 70% of respondents say that transparency is the most important component of an employer's approach to career progression. And then this also translates to pay as well. So we saw this in the written comments repeatedly coming out, a demand for both pay and career progression, transparency. It's something that we actually spoke to Prada Group's chief people officer about for the report, and she shared about how Prada Group is looking at benchmarking pay for each individual to understand their compensation so that employees know what is expected. It's something that can provide reassurance and security when that information is provided, as you mentioned as well. Obviously it is different from country to country. In the US It's a requirement to provide those bans, but it seems like a number of companies across the globe are catching up with that to try and provide that reassurance for individuals so that they can understand where their pay falls compared to not just their colleagues within their company, but also in the wider industry as well.
- [15:26]
Sheena Butler Young
I think it might just be New York and California for now. I'm not sure. But I don't want to give the entire United States of America too much credit on pay transparency. But I know the laws were put in place or close to being put in place in at least New York and California about five years ago.
- [15:42]
Sophie Sor
So it's also worth noting as well, though I think something that's important is that a lot of companies and employers feel like providing other benefits is important as well. Whether that's sort of gym stipends or discounts you can get money off, and whether it's within the brand that you're working for or, you know, going to a wellness class or a fitness class or something like that. But actually when we ask, respondents said that benefits were potentially the lowest priority for them. Like, it really does not move the needle. It's a nice to have, but I think it's also something that's important to bear in mind. It is not going to move the needle at all.
- [16:20]
Sheena Butler Young
That is so interesting. You mean the bear pong on Fridays was it going to get people the rose fountain on Tuesdays? No, it's not surprising to me. I do think that it depends on so many other things too, like the location of a company. If you're in one of those is less populous. Or maybe not a fashion centric city like the big Key city. Sometimes those benefits mean more to people. Sometimes companies will try to create almost like a college campus setting to engage people. So that probably weighs in here. We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this. The other thing that I thought was interesting in the report is the conversation around values and how important that is to the fashion workforce today. This is a conversation that's cropped up a lot, especially around the pandemic when diversity, equity, inclusion was becoming really important alongside sustainability. You would hear consumers, but also employees in fashion and beauty say that these things are really, really important. I want to work somewhere where people are valued regardless of race, gender, sexual identity, all of those things. I want my company to care about the planet and the climate and be a good actor in the world. And then sometimes people just take a job. So where are we now in terms of values? How important is that and is it changing at all?
- [17:45]
Sophie Sor
Sure. So company values and culture was actually the second most important priority to individuals when they were sharing their overarching priorities when assessing an employer today. So we do know that it is really important. We did then go in some more granular detail after that and asked a few more questions around what is it within company values and culture that you value the most? Work life balance was the biggest priority there. So I think that does sort of relate back to what we were talking about earlier with sort of trying to account for the greater flexibility and ensuring that there is that sort of respect for people's time off for accepting the fact that they have a life outside of the office and the work that they do. But also a very, very critical part of company values and culture was leadership. That came out a lot. In fact, when we were asking individuals as a part of the survey to share which companies they would most like to work for within the fashion and beauty industries, leaders were quite often called out by name. Lena Nair at Chanel, for example, Brunello Cuccinelli, which performed in the top 10, they were called out individually as being very inspiring to individuals and a very motivating reason to want to work at a company. And then third after that was alignment of values. So we can think about that a little bit more broadly around whether you are particularly passionate about a Certain cause or a certain cultural moment that's happening within the broader zeitgeist, for example, that is truly important to you as an individual. We went a little bit granular, more granular still. And we are specifically about workplace culture, diversity, equity, inclusion, ESG and sustainability. Within this particular area, these didn't rank as highly, but I think it's important to mention that that does not mean it's not important to the respondents, it is still important to employees. It's just that when they actually have to make that trade off between prioritizing their own individual needs like work life balance, for example, or the leaders that they want to be working with on a day to day basis, they are making that trade off essentially. But it is still very important within a business, as came up in a lot more of our research.
- [20:09]
Sheena Butler Young
Absolutely. And I bet when something really egregious happens, or if there's a political flashpoint or something in the national discourse and your company's on the wrong side of it, then that probably just jumps up to the top of the list for people.
- [20:21]
Sophie Sor
It does. It really does jump up to the top of the list for people. Because if we think about it, when your company or your leadership shifts with the political winds at the time, it can cause a lot of difficulty within your employee base. Part of that is because if you have set forward a particular set of values or initiatives that you have designated as important at the time, and then a few years later you have changed your approach to that, it sends a very strong and sometimes quite confused message to your workforce as a result. And I think one example of that, which I know you have covered, Sheena, as well, is the sort of rise of chief diversity officers back in 2020, after the murder of George Floyd, after the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement, companies started taking diversity, equity and inclusion more seriously. And these roles were quite commonly being hired for within fashion businesses. However, five years later, we have obviously seen a global, not just within the US but a global rollback on DEI initiatives and focuses for businesses. And as a result, you know, it does send quite a strong message to your employees as well as your consumers as well, that this has dropped down your priority list and, and you can really damage not just employee morale, but also your bottom line as well.
- [21:50]
Sheena Butler Young
Absolutely. It just, it makes people think you can't be trusted to come out strong in one direction and just say five years later. And for many, many companies it wasn't. It's like a year or two. Actually, we're not into that anymore. I want to also talk about, you mentioned some of those companies that ranked in the most desirable places to work. I love that you said Chanel came up and Lena Nair, because she has that HR background, she's a very people centered leader, which says a lot about what employees want today. Can we talk about some of the other companies in that top 10? Should I break the drum roll, please? Number one.
- [22:23]
Sophie Sor
Number one was LVMH.
- [22:26]
Sheena Butler Young
And what were some of the reasons? We'll talk through just maybe just a handful of these names, but LVMH was number one. What were some of the key themes there?
- [22:32]
Sophie Sor
Actually, the key theme, the key reason why people said that they wanted to work at LVMH was around paying compensation that was highest. And even though, as far as I understand it, LVMH do not publish their salaries, it is also worth bearing in mind when we were talking about pay and transparency earlier, that if you don't publish it, your individual employees may well do so on Glassdoor. So it is still accessible for individuals at hand to be able to try and understand that. So paying compensation was one of the motivating reasons behind lvmh. But then across the board, for a lot of the other businesses that performed well in that top 10, employer, brand and industry reputation played a really, really key role there. It was quite interesting though. So other companies that performed well in that top 10 included Chanel, Hermes, Dior, Loewe, Prada, Patagonia is on there. They were particularly called out for their work around sustainability, which I think is understandable. And a lot of individuals made reference to that in their written comments. And Brunello Cuccinelli as well, as I mentioned too, was also called out, out for his particular leadership as well, which is, you know, interesting for a business that I believe has around 3,000 employees in, in Italy. So they perform particularly well as well. But something that I think is important to note that we also detail a little bit more within the report, is that employer, brand and industry prestige, as I said, is, is the leading reason for talent to want to work at a company. In a sort of more abstract sense, when you're asked about, you know, what makes this company desirable, why would you want to work there? Their status and prestige is likely going to come out on top, as we saw. However, when we actually get into, you know, when we were asking these individuals about assessing an employer and what made them likely to sort of want to work there rather than just this sort of, oh, wouldn't that be nice to work? Yeah, exactly. Employer, brand and Industry reputation really fell further down the priority list and that's when we started seeing things like paying compensation, company values, flexibility, work life, bal where these then sort of came, came back to the fore.
- [24:50]
Sheena Butler Young
Absolutely. It's really nice to work there. Will not pay the rent. On the 30th of the month. I want to sort of, as we start to close things out, talk about from the employee standpoint, how they can stand out. So we have these, this list of more than 10 companies, but there are some really great places to work in the fashion industry if I'm talent. Obviously I'm asking you to use a really broad strokes here, but how do I stand out if I want to work at one of these, you know, really amazing places? What are the things you can do to make sure that you're being sought out as talent right now?
- [25:25]
Sophie Sor
I mean, I have some more generic advice I suppose, because you still see time and again the same issues cropping up when it comes to job seekers not necessarily doing themselves a favor when it comes to applying for jobs at top employers in fashion and beauty, for one thing. You know, I know it's really obvious to a lot of people listening, but for many it may not be addressing job spread and the needs at hand and relating it back to your experience really explicitly. It's amazing how many people don't do that. And again, you know, there is that element, as we've just discussed, around the desirability of certain brands that people desperately want to work at because they've potentially shopped there for years or they've always admired it. But you kind of need to emphasize past the point of saying I love your brand and you know, it would be great if I could work at your brand. That is really not going to resonate with individuals hiring. Especially if you think, think about how many people have said that they want to work at those particular companies. And instead, I think it's really important to remember now this is potentially a little bit newer and we haven't really got onto the topic of next generation technologies that are really changing the workplace and changing a lot about employee needs and expectations. But obviously a lot of job applicants are using the likes of ChatGPT now to write their CVs, to write their cover letters, they're not amending them afterwards. If I see the word dynamic one more time, you know, like this is something that Chat GPT loves and it's an immediate giveaway. So I would highly recommend making sure that if you're using this technology, you try and think about how you can put yourself into it because it is a key differentiator in, you know, a sea of Generative AI crafted CVs and resumes today in finding a way of making yourself stand.
- [27:18]
Sheena Butler Young
So I want to bring this back together a little bit. You know, one of the big themes we talked about in the beginning that I think is a good theme to end on is around transparency. Transparency on both sides, right? As an employer, if you're going to be attractive five years, 10 years from now, people really want to see you show up as almost like a human being in the world with, you know, with values, but also flexibility and all of these things. Would you agree that that is probably the one of the big takeaways here if you're a company and probably also if you're an employee? Employee?
- [27:48]
Sophie Sor
I would say that transparency, yeah, it's a, it's a key, key thing to focus on as an employer. However, I think there is an element within transparency that's, that's even more crucial here, and that is trust. And it is the fostering of trust between the employer and the employee. Because as an employer, if you are open about where they could evolve, like where your employees could evolve, and you show how you trust them with that information rather than sort of shrouding their development in an air of mystery and hoping it keeps them enticed, it's not going to necessarily be as compelling as when you're demonstrating that you trust them with this information. Transparency allows people to see their career trajectory at a business as well as sort of really visualizing their future there and what it will look like, which it may be a risk, maybe they don't find that motivating, but it can also set sort of clear expectations and goals for them to work towards. And I also think, just as a final point on trust as well, that came up a lot in our report and in the survey as well. Similarly, for hybrid working and flexibility, which was something that 65% of respondents said that they wanted. Employees want to feel trusted that they can and that they will get the job done in a way that suits them. And employers need to demonstrate that they can and do trust their workforce to deliver results.
- [29:13]
Sheena Butler Young
Excellent point to end on. Sophie, thank you so much for joining us. What an incredible report.
- [29:17]
Sophie Sor
Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to chat to you about this.
- [29:22]
Sheena Butler Young
Please be sure to check out the Careers report, what fashion and beauty professionals want from employers@businessofashion.com this and other stories are available to BoF Professional subscribers only. And you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the debrief produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:54]
Narrator
Hello listeners. Meet Lisa.
- [29:56]
Lisa
Hey there.
- [29:57]
Narrator
Lisa runs an online boutique specializing in sustainable fashion. With Acast, she found a whole new way to reach eco conscious shoppers.
- [30:05]
Lisa
Yep, I recorded a quick ad targeted listeners interested in fashion and sustainability using acast's audience attributes targeting feature and set my budget. Before I knew it, people all over were hearing about my shop.
- [30:16]
Sophie Sor
Shop.
- [30:17]
Narrator
Now that's a smart way to grow your business. Hey Lisa, what's trending right now?
- [30:21]
Lisa
Shopping sustainably and my sales of course.
- [30:23]
Narrator
Start reaching your ideal audience through podcast ads with Acast. Visit go acast.com advertise to get started.