When Fashion Lost Its Voice

Summary

Summary of "When Fashion Lost Its Voice"

The Business of Fashion Podcast
Host: Brian Baskin
Guest: Sheena Butler Young, Senior Correspondent
Guest: Kat Chen, Retail Editor
Release Date: June 17, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "When Fashion Lost Its Voice," host Brian Baskin explores the recent wave of protests affecting the fashion industry, particularly focusing on immigration enforcement's impact on garment workers in Los Angeles. The discussion delves into the silence of fashion brands amidst political unrest, the historical context of the industry's engagement with social issues, and the challenges faced by immigrant labor within the sector.

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The Trigger: ICE Raids in Los Angeles

[00:22 - 01:03]

Brian Baskin opens the conversation by highlighting the widespread protests across the U.S., marking them as the largest since the George Floyd protests in 2020. He connects these demonstrations to recent actions by the Trump administration against immigration policies, specifically pointing to raids in Los Angeles that targeted workplaces within the fashion industry.

Sheena Butler Young notes the stark contrast between the industry's vocal support for movements like Black Lives Matter five years ago and its current silence amid renewed protests against immigration enforcement. This shift raises questions about the industry's commitment to social issues.

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Impact of ICE Raids on the Fashion Industry

[01:19 - 04:03]

Brian introduces Kat Chen, the retail editor, to provide detailed insights into the situation in Los Angeles. Kat explains that on June 6th, ICE conducted raids on several workplaces, including Ambiance Apparel, resulting in the detention of 14 individuals and the deportation of one worker. She emphasizes the lack of clear guidelines from the Trump administration regarding which workplaces are targeted, causing widespread fear and uncertainty within the industry.

Kat highlights that apparel factories were not exempted in the administration's recent guidance, in contrast to other sectors like farms, hotels, and restaurants. This omission has heightened anxiety among fashion industry stakeholders in Los Angeles, which is home to an estimated 46,000 garment workers with varying immigration statuses.

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Industry's Silent Response

[04:10 - 06:28]

When asked about the industry's reaction, Kat observes a predominant silence, mirroring trends seen across consumer-facing sectors. She attributes this quietude to a combination of fear of retaliation from the Trump administration and a sense of helplessness due to the lack of resources and clear directives. Despite underlying concerns and frustrations, brands and designers remain largely mute on the issue.

Sheena Butler Young adds that this silence is not surprising, given the consistent pattern of the Trump administration following through on its policies. She also points out that many companies failed to fulfill their social commitments made during the George Floyd protests, leading to a perception of cowardice within the industry when it comes to taking a stand now.

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Challenges in Addressing Immigration Enforcement

[06:45 - 10:00]

Kat shares her experiences interviewing industry executives who express fears of being specifically targeted by ICE raids without clear reasons or guidelines. The atmosphere of chaos and uncertainty makes it difficult for managers to navigate the situation effectively. There is also a notable absence of trade organizations providing support or guidelines for employers, leaving them to operate "blindly" amid the turmoil.

Marissa Nuncio, Executive Director of the Garment Workers Center, emphasizes the importance of showing up for employees by offering empathy and practical support, such as flexible work arrangements during times of uncertainty. Additionally, she recommends that employers develop contingency plans for potential ICE raids, referencing resources like the National Employment Law Project.

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The Decline of Corporate Activism in Fashion

[10:49 - 18:13]

Sheena Butler Young provides a historical overview of the fashion industry's engagement with social issues over the past five years. She recalls the period following George Floyd's murder, where brands actively supported movements like Black Lives Matter through public pledges and symbolic gestures, such as posting black squares on social media. However, within a few years, many companies failed to follow through on their commitments, leading to diminished corporate activism.

She cites the Supreme Court's decision to overturn affirmative action and the backlash against brands supporting LGBTQ Pride Month as contributing factors to the industry's retreat from taking public stances on social issues. This political and social climate has made brands wary of being perceived as performative, especially when past actions did not align with their stated values.

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Consumer Influence and Brand Authenticity

[17:13 - 25:25]

Sheena discusses the evolving consumer sentiment towards brands' social activism. While consumers expressed a desire for brands to embody values like diversity and sustainability, actual purchasing behaviors did not consistently support these values-driven initiatives. This discrepancy has led to consumer fatigue and skepticism, especially among liberal customers who perceive corporate statements as performative rather than authentic.

Sheena contrasts brands like Lush, which have a long-standing commitment to diversity and inclusion, against giants like Target, which despite facing criticism, integrated diversity into their business strategy effectively. Lush's decision to rename their bath bombs to "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" during a politically charged period exemplifies how some brands maintain authenticity by embedding social values deeply into their operations rather than as temporary marketing tactics.

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The Power of Speaking Out

[22:33 - 25:25]

Kat emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between companies that merely speak out versus those that provide tangible solutions. She argues that in times of unrest, vulnerable populations require concrete support rather than symbolic gestures from big brands. The lack of meaningful engagement allows opposing rhetoric to dominate the conversation, diminishing the industry's influence in advocating for social change.

Sheena reinforces this by highlighting that silent brands inadvertently empower adversarial narratives. The absence of a counter-narrative from the fashion industry grants more space to opposition, undermining efforts to protect and support immigrant workers.

Brian concludes by underscoring the necessity for both internal commitment and public advocacy. He references Karen Romero’s case, emphasizing that silence can have dire consequences, allowing oppressive actions to proceed unchecked.

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Conclusion

The episode "When Fashion Lost Its Voice" offers a critical examination of the fashion industry's retreat from public advocacy amid political and social challenges. It highlights the tension between corporate fear of retaliation, consumer skepticism, and the urgent need to support vulnerable workers. Through insightful discussions with industry experts, the podcast underscores the importance of authentic, values-driven actions over performative gestures, advocating for a more engaged and supportive approach within the fashion sector.

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Notable Quotes

• Sheena Butler Young
  "Most companies probably didn't follow through to the degree that they said they would. And so now, if you speak up, we have something to hold you accountable to, and you may not be able to do that."
  [05:14]

• Kat Chen
  "What they need is their employers to be prepared."
  [23:29]

• Sheena Butler Young
  "When there's no counter narrative, the other one gets a bigger boost."
  [24:44]

---

For more in-depth coverage, please refer to Kat Chen's article "Garment Workers Are at Risk, Fashion Can't Afford to Look Away" and Sheena Butler Young's piece "Five Years After George Floyd, Can Fashion Still Stand for Something?" available to BOF Professional subscribers.

Transcript

[Brian Baskin]

Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm executive editor Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.

[Brian Baskin]

This past weekend, thousands of protesters in dozens of cities across the US Took to the streets to voice their displeasure with President Donald Trump. The demonstrations were the largest since the days after the murder of George Floyd in the summer of 2020 and came on the heels of protests in Los Angeles against the Trump administration's immigration rates.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Five years ago, fashion and beauty brands flooded social media with black squares and public pledges in support of Black Lives Matter and similar organizations. Today, as protests erupt in Los Angeles over a government raid at a garment factory, and in an industry that depends heavily on immigrant labor, that same chorus, of course, corporate solidarity has fallen mostly silent.

[Brian Baskin]

Sheena, you've been writing about the intersection of fashion and politics for a long time and I have a ton of questions for you. But first, I'd like to welcome back our retail editor, Kat Chen, who has been closely following the immigration protests. Kat, thank you for joining us today.

[Kat Chen]

Hi guys. Thank you for having me.

[Brian Baskin]

Kat, tell us about the situation in LA and fashion's connection to it.

[Kat Chen]

Yeah, so it's been more than a weeks long ordeal of protest and unrest in Los Angeles. The original catalyst took place on June 6th. That was when ICE, Immigration Customs Enforcement federal agents raided a handful of workplaces in Los Angeles, including one called Garment Warehouse called Ambiance Apparel. And that's sort of what my coverage has focused on. This one particular garment warehouse and the reverberations that it has had on the greater apparel industry in Los Angeles. Apparel is one of the largest industries in LA, if not the largest. There is an estimated 46,000 garment workers in the city. A varying immigration statuses. Some are undocumented, but some are definitely legal in the US and the reason why it's been so stressful for everybody in the fashion community in LA, from CEOs to fellow factory workers who are American citizens, is that there really isn't any rhyme or reason to how ICE is targeting these workplaces and the way that they take place has instilled just a lot of fear and people are unsure if their workplace could be targeted as well. So from that June 6th raid, what we know is that 14 people were detained from Ambiance Apparel and since then, one of them has been deported.

[Brian Baskin]

And I've never heard of Ambiance Apparel. I doubt many of our listeners have. But, but there are plenty of big brands that are operating manufacturing or warehouses in LA and could theoretically be subject to a raid just like this, right?

[Kat Chen]

Yes, for sure. Again, there's no guidelines or clarity from the White House on what kind of workplaces they're targeting. Now, as of Friday, Trump's administration issued some guidance on raids going forward, focusing less on farms, on hotels and on restaurants. But, but apparel factories, garment warehouses were not on the list of exemptions. And I think that's made the industry even more apprehensive that these other industries have been exempted, but apparel isn't one of them.

[Brian Baskin]

And how has the industry reacted since those raids and since the protests began?

[Kat Chen]

I think largely it's been quiet. This is following the trend of, I think, all consumer facing sectors. I mean, Sheena, you could speak to this more than I could, but it's been a trend of brands and retailers and even independent designers not wanting to speak out. Now, in the case of ICE raids, this is a particularly touchy topic because most companies, it's not that they don't care, they do care. There's a lot of just unease and anxiety and discomfort and frustration behind the scenes. But there is this other piece of the pie, which is fear of retribution, of retaliation from the Trump administration. And so that's why I think we haven't heard as many voices speak out.

[Brian Baskin]

Sheena, you kind of gave a knowing chuckle when I asked that question. How's the industry reacting? I mean, tell me what you've observed and whether it came as a surprise to you.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yeah, the chuckle was that it wasn't a surprise that there is mostly silence. I think what Kat said is, is true that there is a fear of retribution that is valid. I mean, I think Trump has shown a pattern of, of making good on his word. And so if he, you know, says he's going to do a policy or, or, you know, mass deportations, whatever it is, there is follow through there. And so if you are a brand that wants to stay out from under his radar, it might be a wise business decision to avoid that. I think there's also some companies just can't back up a stance that's values driven right now because they haven't done the work that they set out to do five years ago. So, you know, we compare this in terms of scale of protest to George Floyd and at that time, fashion companies did speak up and then they did make commitments and pledges and they didn't actually follow through for the most part. Most companies probably didn't follow through to the degree that they said they would. And so now, if you speak up, we have something to hold you accountable to, and you may not be able to do that. So I think my chuckle might be an indication of what I think people see as cowardice. I know that's a controversial word, but I think people see the industry as acting cowardly, as an industry that does rely on immigrant labor, legal and otherwise.

[Brian Baskin]

Kat, I remember I was in the office when you were doing some of the interviews for your story on the immigration protests, and you point blank asked some of the executives you're talking to, why won't you say these really smart insights about what is happening on on the Record? I mean, what did they say?

[Kat Chen]

I mean, exactly that, Brian. That they're afraid that Trump is going to just target them, as if Trump himself is knocking on a door. And that sounds very silly, but that's the atmosphere of chaos and fear that I think it's very hard as any kind of manager to not feel. I think another huge issue is that people are feeling really helpless in the sector. There aren't any resources. You know, we're not seeing trade organizations emerge and come up with guidelines for what employers can do in case of a raid. There's obviously very little guidance coming from the White House about the sorts of workplaces that they're targeting. And so you have these executives who are operating very blindly.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And, Kat, you did speak to someone that is kind of trying to do that thing of give the industry guidance or provide some guidelines for how they could engage or how they could be supportive. What did Marissa Nuncio, the executive director of the Garment Workers center, what did she tell you that she's telling people that they could do?

[Kat Chen]

I think first of all, it's showing up for your employees and being there for them. This is a refrain that I've heard from, you know, not just Marissa, but employers as well, is that there's that first layer of sympathy and empathy that you can give your workers, you know, if they're asking for the day off, if they're going to be late, because, you know, they're taking alternative transportation that isn't public transit, just making space for that and understanding that. And then the second thing is just, just have a plan. Know what you're going to do in case of an ICE raid. Today, a very prominent LA manufacturer sent me this document from the National Employment Law Project. For all the employers that are listening, this is available online. You can Google what to do when ICE shows up as employer and there's a factoid basically outlining your rights, outlining protocol for when the ICE raid is happening, most likely in the form of what's called an i9 audit. There are some legal protections in terms of what's considered a public area and a private area in a business. So that's something to look at. And yeah, I would say right now these resources are pretty sparse. The garment worker center focuses on the employees themselves, the workers themselves, and from the employer side, you know, there really isn't anything out there. And I think this is an area where the trade organizations can step up on. Textile lobbying organizations can step up because, you know, protecting business interests, this is quite bipartisan. I think there is an interest, I guess an apolitical interest that the industries can protect themselves. And so hopefully that's what we'll see emerge in the next couple of days.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, I think it's worth emphasizing what you alluded to earlier, which is businesses don't know whether they're going to be subject to these rates, but they can no longer say they're surprised if it happens. And I think boning up on what to do is really the number one thing that employers can be doing right now before there's an emergency. Sheena, you spoke a bit earlier about why you were not surprised at fashion silence at the raids and the protests. I think at this point our listeners broadly know about this. I don't know if we call it a political retrenchment by the industry moving away from taking these activist stances and why that's happening. But can you give us the lightning quick timeline for how we went from those days after George Floyd to now?

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yeah, I don't know if it could be lightning quick, but here's, here's a shot at it. The climate five years ago felt not dissimilar to how it feels today. You know, people saw what happened to George Floyd and they consumers in fashion and also employees in the fashion industry were asking companies to do something, to show up, up and in the world as more than purveyors of clothes and shoes and stuff and like take a stand. And so companies did a combination of posting black squares, which we all loved or didn't love, having some kind of public facing marketing moment, if you will, on support and solidarity for the black community. But they also did something else, which is that they pledged these real business driven imperatives like we're going to pledge some companies. It was like I think a hundred million dollars was out of a few of the athletic brands, but pledged Millions of dollars to community organizations for BIPOC and black people, but also pledged to hire more, to promote more, and all of these things. And then over the course, well, actually didn't take very long. Within a year, you started to see some of that. There was less tracking of where those pledges were going. You know, companies may have put out an impact report in 2021, 2022, that showed them getting after some of those representation numbers. But 23, that had all but disappeared for a lot of companies. And then you saw that summer affirmative action at the collegiate level being overturned effectively by the Supreme Court. Also that summer, Bud Light, Target, with their LGBTQ Pride Month activations not being received. Well, that was the beginning of this, what we've called sort of a conservative backlash to the DNI movement around 2023. And then fast forward to 2024, we had an election that went in that direction. Then in January, executive orders that explicitly target diversity, equity, inclusion programs. So when we say there's silence, it's probably been silent for about two years now. At least two years.

[Brian Baskin]

And that speaks to the fact that it's. It. Trump is a part of this. But that's not the entire story about why brands have backed off. I mean, there's a consumer element, too, right?

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yeah. I think that the consumer bit is interesting. Right. You know, you could apply this to sustainability as well. Like, there was a period where consumers were indicating in a whole plethora of quantitative and qualitative research that they want organizations to show up in the world like people with feelings and values and beliefs, and we're going to. And as a consumer, we're going to spend and use our wallet that way. And then you would actually look at, you know, the revenue numbers for companies that weren't doing that or were not values driven or not being sustainable. And it was almost the opposite. So sustainability. And then you saw Shein and Tamu's sales. You hold those up against each other, and it didn't really add up. So I think there was one part where I think consumers do care. But do they always follow through in their shopping? Not necessarily. And I think the ones that do care, they're a little jaded by what they saw fashion do. So they're less interested now in fashion saying that they care about something and actually doing it. Like, we've heard you say things for five years without follow through. So I think there's a little bit of a fatigue of hearing from brands that the reality of how they do business doesn't match what they say.

[Brian Baskin]

We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.

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[Brian Baskin]

I was looking at some polling data from Gallup and Ipsos one from before the election, one after. And they both showed that there was a huge swing of consumers away from wanting brands to take political stances. And it was mainly liberal consumers who were saying they didn't want it anymore. Conservatives were actually more likely to say they did want it. In these surveys, which I found fascinating.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I do think the liberal consumer, the ones that were espousing the like the pro D and I values especially are just a little bit over it, hearing companies say something and not do the same thing. There's a lot of research behind this idea of companies listing on their website that, you know, here at XYZ Fashion brand, we value diversity. We value having a diverse workforce. And a lot of people say, actually I'd rather just show up at a job interview or show up on my first day of work and just see it be diverse. I don't need to see it splattered all over your LinkedIn or your homepage. I just want you to live everything you talk about. And so I think that that might explain why the liberal consumer is saying that. I think they actually see the speaking about it as performative. And I know we'll talk, we'll probably get into this a little bit, but some of the brands that are doing a good job, they avoid that knee jerk reaction of I think fashion industry, specifically where you need to perform it, you need to show it off. It's like they do it internally first and then they talk about it.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, let's talk about that. You published a story this week. Five years after George Floyd, can fashion still stand for something? And it does some of the recapping of, of how fashion lost its voice that we just discussed. But what I found fascinating about that story is that you talk to some of the companies and organizations that are actually still stepping up their efforts. If anything, they're doing more. Tell us about what Lush is doing because they definitely are not backing down in the face of threats to DE and I.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yes, I don't know if all of our listeners know what Lush is, but it's that cosmetics brand that does those bath bombs and a lot of like lotion and interesting body wellness scent products. And they in January, right around the inauguration, when that first round of executive orders came out and a few of them explicitly targeted diversity, equity, inclusion programs, Target did away with its DEI program and became the poster child for companies doing away with DEI programs. Lush made the decision to rename three of its most popular bath bombs, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. And the way they explained it was that they didn't think those words should be going away from the cultural lexicon. And so how can we. I believe the Amanda who runs their DEI work internally said we wanted to do a visual cue, that this was a way for us to enter the conversation authentically with our product and really make a statement. And so they. They renamed it that. But, you know, Lush is the example that I spoke about that they actually have been quiet about their inclusion programs. They've had it in their company framework for more than a decade, if not longer. And Amanda said was the first time ever since they've been doing it that they'd had so much external interest in what they were doing internally. So that was also a cue that the consumer itself wanted to hear from them on diversity equity inclusion. So they put their. Their money where their mouth is.

[Brian Baskin]

I have a few questions about that, but my first one is, what does diversity smell like?

[Sheena Butler Young]

I am actually going to go to the Lush near me and I need to go find these bath bombs. I told him, like, I have to smell it now because it just sounds so interesting. Like, I'm bathing in diversity equity inclusion this week.

[Brian Baskin]

According to their website, organic sweet orange oil brings its sharp, acidulous fragrance that pairs deliciously with the caramelized floral notes of Champaka Absolute.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Oh, my gosh. I'm with it. Kat and I can go to the local mall this week and get our bath bombs.

[Brian Baskin]

All right, well, we'll have a full report on the next episode, but I guess, you know, it goes back to that question, though, of, like, why does Lush feel like they can do this and every other brand? Instead of taking Lush as an example, they seem to be following Target's lead and saying, oh, my God, we can't say anything or Trump is going to come down on us like a ton of bricks.

[Sheena Butler Young]

You know what's tricky about Target? If I can say this aside for a second, I think that they were one of the best examples of making this inclusion stuff like a revenue driver. You know, they don't break out their sales numbers by division, but I know they have. This is not just anecdotally, but one of the best offerings of bipoc beauty and wellness products. And they, like, anytime I was personally looking for something in that category, I would go to Target for a long time. And I know a lot of people in the black community felt that way about their offerings of black products, from, like, the lip bar to my L and you fill in the blank. So they almost, even though they're the poster child, their retrenchment almost doesn't make sense because they were somewhat doing it correctly in that they made it a part of their business strategy. But on companies like Lush, I think that the key is, is that they did what Target and others started doing in 20, 2010, 20 years ago. So REI is another example. Nicole from REI, who also heads up their diversity, equity, inclusion work, she talked about inclusion being embedded in the company's strategic framework over 20 years ago. So they had programming, they had partnerships with like Afro Latina organizations with Black Girl Run. They've been designing product with inclusivity and body positivity in mind for 20 years. Lush was supporting gay marriage in 2011. So they have this history of being in it and so speak to a customer that knows who they are and there's no need to walk away from something when your customer already knows you and you've been doing it this way. Other companies, if you've only been doing it for five years, maybe it's too new for you to feel like you have a foothold and a reason to stick with it.

[Kat Chen]

I just want to interject here, guys, and make sure that we're creating a distinction between when companies, when industry stakeholders are speaking out about something versus actually providing some kind of solutions. And to your point, Sheena, it's always much more important to do that work behind the scenes than to virtue signal and make it into some kind of marketing ploy. And I think that's also the very important thing to note here. With unrest unfolding over immigration enforcement, which is that the most vulnerable people right now, they don't need, you know, big brands to post something on social media. They don't need this kind of grand political gesturing. What they need is a solution to the problem. What they need is for their employers to be prepared.

[Brian Baskin]

I think that's spot on, Kat, but it really does take both. I'm not saying everyone needs to go back to posting black squares or whatever the equivalent of that is, but at the Global Forum or our Beauty Summit in Napa earlier this month, there was something that the attorney for the deported Venezuelan makeup artist said that really stuck with me, which is that the moment that we stop talking about Romero, her client, the Trump administration is successful in completing his disappearance. And I think there's an element of that here as well. Speech can be quite effective in raising awareness about something that I don't think a lot of people are thinking about actively at any given moment. And fashion does have a voice. And it's if they're doing good work behind the scenes, which let's see if they're even doing that, but they're not talking about this, then I think it does give the Trump administration a little more room to act with impunity.

[Kat Chen]

For what it's worth though, I was just reading an article about all the celebrities that have either protested or posted on social media about the ICE raids, including Kim Kardashian and Jimmy Kimmel.

[Brian Baskin]

Kim Kardashian to the rescue.

[Kat Chen]

There's definitely there is an element of people speaking, speaking out.

[Sheena Butler Young]

They're just not fashion brands. That's all. To add to that, I think what you both said, I think there is power in in speaking out. A lot of DE&I experts have said the reason that Di or one reason that Di couldn't hold up is that people, companies kept saying we're just going to do it behind the scenes, we don't want to be performative. And then they were doing neither thing. They were not talking about they were not doing it. And it also allowed some of that opposing rhetoric to be very loud, even though a lot of people may not have agreed with it. When there's no counter narrative, the other one gets a bigger boost. So I think it is easy to understate the value of speaking up and that is not invaluable.

[Brian Baskin]

And I think that is a great point to end on. Thank you so much, Kat. Thank you to my co host Sheena.

[Kat Chen]

My pleasure guys.

[Brian Baskin]

Please be sure to check out Kat's article Garment Workers Are at Risk, Fashion Can't Afford to Look Away as well as Sheena's article five Years After George Floyd, Can Fashion Still Stand for something? @businessoffashion.com these and other stories are available to BOF Professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes you've been listening to the debrief produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us us wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Elise Hu, host of the podcast Ted Talks Daily. For more than 20 years, Paylocity has been leading the way with cutting edge work solutions like On Demand Payment which offers employees access to wages prior to payday, flexible time tracking features which enable staff to clock in and out through their mobile device and numerous other cutting edge solutions that simplify collaboration across across hr, finance and it. Learn more about how paylocity can help streamline work and enhance business outcomes for your [e-mail] simplified now at Verizon we.

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