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The Business of Fashion Podcast
Would You Let AI Shop for You?
00:32:27
AI shopping agents promise to learn our tastes, style outfits and even check out on our behalf. The Debrief asks Malique Morris what it takes for these tools to move from hype to habit.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:08]
B
Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.
- [00:19]
A
And I'm executive editor Brian Baskin. You've told Siri to set a Timer and ask ChatGPT to edit an email, but would you let either of them pick your wardrobe? A new wave of AI startups promises to do just that. Ask you a few smart questions, scan your closet, cross check your calendar and then pick, pay and ship across multiple retailers.
- [00:41]
B
Big players like OpenAI, Google and Propexity are already frontrunners in the race and upstarts like Vatyr FIA and gensmo say they have the edge on fashion specific taste and tooling. But do consumers really want AI shopping assistance? Today we're joined by BoF's Malik Morris to break down what it will take for consumers to actually let AI shop for them. Malik, welcome back to the debrief.
- [01:04]
C
Thank you for having me. So excited to get into if you know a computer can do the shopping for you, this is going to be a fun conversation indeed.
- [01:11]
A
I agree. And thank you, Sheena, for saying the name of all those startups. We're in the phase of the tech hype cycle where there's a lot of weird words out there I don't want to learn how to pronounce. This is one of those topics where I know it's the right time to talk about it because between scheduling the episode and actually recording it, there's like five major bits of breaking news on this exact subject. And we'll get into that in a bit. But first, I think it'll be helpful, Malik, if you can explain what is an AI shopping agent and why is everyone talking about it right now?
- [01:41]
C
Yeah, so I think it'd be good for me to actually take a step back and give you a layer for land. Right. So right now when it comes to online shopping, consumers are expecting prime personalization whenever they're buying something on the interwebs, you know, and that's come honestly after years of people being spoiled by for you pages on TikTok and on Netflix that like when you open up a feed, it's going to look like exactly what you want it to look like based on your tastes and preferences. But to be honest, you know, personalization, e commerce for the most part has been algorithm recommending items for you based on what you've already browsed or purchased. An AI shopping agent, on the other hand, is supposed to learn the shopper and can act on their behalf. So in theory, these agents can respond to very specific prompts like buy me a revenge dress for my ex boyfriend's wedding in Paris who cheated on me and his girlfriend is prettier. And it will find the right option based on what it knows about the shopper's preferences and can even complete the transaction for a person. So it's really, really cutting edge. And you know, Brian, you had mentioned this earlier, there's two players getting into this. You know, there's the AI powered search giant, you know, the OpenAI, the Chat GPT, the perplexities of the world. And they're launching checkout on their search engines, which is really, they're kind of the pioneers in being able to respond to those very specific kind of prompts. But then also the e commerce giants are introducing AI shopping assistants. Like Amazon announced a shopping assistant this month called Help Me Decide that personalizes results based on a person's browsing, searching and purchase history on the platform. And that's pretty big. Not only because Amazon is big, but Amazon is like the Google of online shopping. Like that's where people go just to search for stuff. But then there's also, you know, a bunch of AI powered shopping platforms like Vatyr and Gensmo, One off and Bento and that are creating their own AI agents. So it's safe to say that agents of commerce is here and we need to get prepared for it.
- [03:31]
A
I'm going to push back. I don't think it's safe to say that yet because none of these is actually proven they can successfully at scale actually shop for people. And I want to get into that back and forth in a little bit. But first, can you actually explain what do these startups do? We keep mentioning the same three here. Why don't we just talk about those really quickly and explain how they're different from, you know, the instant checkout with ChatGPT that I think a lot of our listeners have heard about.
- [03:56]
C
So you know, what they do is also about like the value they're supposed to add. So like the value that the agent is supposed to add is like it depends on the platform that you're using them on. So we were talking about like, you know, OpenAI and them launching checkout on ChatGPT last month, the Perplexity offering, you know, automatic checkout to paid subscribers. You know, the benefit is that they respond to the most specific granular prompt. So a step beyond a generic search, but they're pulling results from all over the Internet. So it's not really personalized. These AI powered shopping startups, which is obviously a mouthful like the Jinsmo and the tiers of the world, are learning the user. So many of them start as styling tools where consumers can upload images of items they own and they're giving them outfit and new product recommendations. And some of these platforms have access to you know, users calendars and they can recommend items based on upcoming events and things they that you don't have in your closet that they think you should gaps in your wardrobe. So by the time a customer asks an agent on these platforms for like a soul treat dinner date in the south of France something for that, the tool knows what they're looking for and can confidently buy something on their behalf. And again the value goes to from the agent really depends on the platform you're interacting with it on. And these AI shopping agents are like trying to cut through the noise even further by saying like we're going to know intuitively exactly how you want to dress. We know what you're missing in your wardrobe, we know what, what you're going to be doing on a Saturday night and how to dress you for that. There are even platforms that have features that they'll generate avatars and will generate avatars in those settings as well. So we know how you're going to look when you wear this stuff. So that's really the value they're trying to bring here.
- [05:33]
B
Question on the value of that. It was funny because you were talking earlier about like you know, trying to have a revenge dress for your boyfriend's wedding. I have never. Or ex boyfriend's wedding. I don't think that's me. I don't think that's. I don't think I'm the. That doesn't sound like something I would be doing. I wouldn't be invited.
- [05:47]
C
That is me. I would be doing.
- [05:49]
B
I would not be invited nor would I go. But I was very curious because I had done this thing before like around one of the fashion months. I like put something in ChatGPT and obviously this is where these new platforms are trying to have their edge, right? I put it in chat GPT and it gave me the most generic cringe like you should wear a nice coat and like boots for fashion week. So it doesn't know. And these platforms claim to know who is the person that's going to one of these new fashion specific platforms and asking for advice because it's not me. Like I would never go out of my way to Go to the next step and ask anybody to tell me online.
- [06:23]
A
Well, Sheena, you're. You're quite fashionable and very self assured.
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B
Begging for a compliment.
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A
No, no, I think that's what you wanted to hear. But, you know, I think it's true also. And you should check out her Instagram if you don't, don't believe her. But I, I do think it's probably not for you. I think it is probably more for someone like me who, like, I. I think I dress fine, but I'm not like necessarily, you know, the most confident, flashy dresser. And I think I could use a tip here and there. I'm sure you guys can chime in and reassure me.
- [06:57]
B
Are you downloading Gens Mode?
- [06:58]
C
Do you have.
- [06:59]
A
No, but I have used Daydream, which is similar to what we've been describing here. And it is basically, it's like, you know, a sort of slicker version of ChatGPT and you can converse with it and say, I want this. It shows you a bunch of red shirts. You say, actually I want yellow shirts. And it shows you that like it. It walks you through it and it recommends brands you might not have come across otherwise. If you tell it to be more daring, it will. I mean, I can see the appeal. Have any of these reached a point where they replace how I would shop normally? Not so sure yet, but maybe we get there.
- [07:31]
C
I'll throw a wrench on that by saying that it's actually for the two of you combined. So the early adopters of these AI agents are people who are avid shoppers who love new technology. So something like A Daydream is a really great platform because it is just being the chatgpt for fashion. But these platforms are different in that they're requiring you to upload items of your wardrobe. They're basically asking you to download your closet onto their platforms. So you have to like love the process of shopping to want to do that. And you have to be willing to adopt new technologies, you know. Now how many of these people exist right now is probably a small number, thousand, maybe a few million, you know, but that's enough for these startups to test and learn. Perfect there too, before it's adopted by a wider audience, you know, and I think, you know, when it comes to agentic shopping is partially that there's an audience here, but a small one and partially a build it and they will come scenario. You know, like think of like the.com boom. No one was necessarily asking for E commerce, but the innovators knew it was a form of commerce that would become endemic to consumerism once the tool were widely available. And there may have been a bubble, you know, we know, in that burst, and it may have caused some ugly fallouts for startups, but those innovations were correct. Look at how we shop and consume things today. And if anyone thinks this won't get off the ground unless regular people use AI agents, they're right. But that's not going to happen until it's available everywhere. You know, I think, you know, a tangible example is, you know, maybe a small subset of shoppers crave like self checkout and were willing to use it. But it wasn't until Target and CVS and Uniqlo made that like a primary way to check out in their stores that it became second nature for consumers across generations of regions to buy things in stores. And I think something similar can, can happen here as well. And honestly, to be frank, a lot of these startups will fail, like the ones that died in the dot com boom, but the ones that survive on their own or are inevitably acquired by Google, Amazon or OpenAI will have contributed to this sort of irreversible change in consumer behavior, if that makes sense.
- [09:31]
A
This is a question that really interests me, which is how good do these have to get for people to actually use them in their everyday lives? And I think that's the question with everything involving AI is if you really look at your answers you're getting they're probably like 80% of the way there, but that other 20% keeps you from really trusting it. And I Wonder, let's say Fio's recommendations are really great 90% of the time, and the other 10% they're just hilariously off the mark. Are people going to look at that and go, hey, this is usually pretty good. Are they going to look at it and go, this thing is kind of all over the place and it's easier for me to just shop for myself.
- [10:08]
C
I'm thinking about it like, just with like the advent of ChatGPT to begin with, right? Like it was sloppy and messy and like didn't give you accurate stuff. But like, that didn't stop us from playing with it, that didn't stop us from like continuing to feed it. And I think something similar can happen when it comes to the shopping AI tools, you know, like, no, it's not going to get it completely right. No, it's not going to. Even these platforms that are claiming to like know you really well based on what you, what you already own and based on what you're telling, you know, these, these, these agents you like. No, it's not going to be 100% accurate of what you would want. But I think the idea specifically for these startups, there's this idea of, like, you're just gonna continue to feed it because it wants to know you so well that it knows that you hate the color. You want to be dead and red. You know, like, it wants to get that good. But that's not going to happen until it has people, like, playing. In terms of what they've been telling me, they do have users on their platform, whether they're beta testing or whether they're officially launched, but I don't think that it's necessarily. Consumers are expecting 100% accuracy even.
- [11:09]
A
I disagree. I disagree because to look at what you just said there, yeah, we're all playing with ChatGPT. We're using it for this and that. I would never let it fill out a mortgage application for me. I would never give it my credit card. That 10% really matters when there's money involved.
- [11:24]
B
I think the incentive bit is where I'm lost. I think I still don't know. The incentive to take the first step, to even try to get it to help me is, I think, where I keep going back to.
- [11:34]
C
So, okay, so we're just gonna get into this. I cover the space.
- [11:38]
B
I love it.
- [11:39]
C
I feel very confident in my ability to put out clothes together. So I don't think that I need this tool yet. However, I think to the point that you were making, Bryan, this idea of, like, not cause the big part of the agent, the AI agent and the lore of it is this idea that it can check out on your behalf. To be clear, it's not necessarily buy me a revenge dress right now and I just trust you. It's show me those options. And then after a while saying, hey, can you buy these shoes for me? Or can you buy me a pair of sleek loafers? And it knows you, but that's like the 20th, maybe even the hundredth interaction you've had with this tool. It's not like the first interaction. That's what I'm saying. Like, the accuracy of it, it's all based on how much you play with it. It's not like, hey, I'm using, I just download Vatier and now and I've uploaded my closet. Buy me a new, you know, cashmere coat for the winter, and it's gonna know exactly what I want with no objections and can do the transaction on my behalf. No, we're gonna have to talk quite a few times to get to that point. And I think that there are consumers that are patient, and I think that there are like hundreds of thousands of consumers, maybe even millions of consumers that are gonna be that patient. And again, does that mean that they're gonna be like this immediate winner right now? And when it comes to these startups, probably not, but I. They're planting the seeds for what consumer behavior is going to be and in 10 years time, even five years time. So that's the argument that I'm making rather than, you know, it needs to be correct right now and we need to see this mass adoption right now. I don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon.
- [13:11]
B
It sounds like you're saying the real unlock is going to be the agency that it can do some things on my behalf if it gets to know me, and then it's more efficient. It frees me up the way that ChatGPT theoretically does for some of us. Like it could help me send a quick email and frees me up for the more human version of what I could be doing.
- [13:28]
C
Yeah. And again, the unlock is getting to know you. And the tension that, you know, Brian is always so great at, like getting out of us is like, is the who. Who wants this? Like, who, who wants to be the guinea pigs for this? And I think that there are plenty of people out there, I am not one of them, who are going to be the guinea pigs for this, you know, in a meaningful way. But, you know, all that remains to be seen. But like, I do think that we are. We, we're here. That's why I said, like agents of commerce is here because the tools are being built and experimentation is happening. Like people are going to be conditioned the same way that they were conditioned, you know, when Netflix, you know, rolled out their algorithms and they were picking films for you based on what you watched before. The same way, you know, TikTok and Instagram these for your pages. Like, it's here, it's happening and it's only going to get more efficient.
- [14:10]
B
What about on like normal brands website? Like what is a credible AI shopping agents agent look like today and does it exist? Like, I know one that comes up a lot is the Ask Ralph. I attempted to ask Ralph before this segment and I could not find it on the website. Maybe that's just me, but it's on the app.
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A
It's on the app.
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B
Oh, I have to have an app sealed. How do I know that? How am I supposed to do Well.
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C
I mean if you love shopping, you first of all, all brands should have apps and if you love shopping, you should.
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A
Oh, I disagree. Okay, that's a whole other episode, but I completely disagree. I hate brand apps.
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C
No, brand apps are. No you joking every time. Ridiculous.
- [14:48]
B
I'm with Brian on that one. I would not, I would never find. Because I'm not going to download the app.
- [14:53]
C
No, but to your point about this idea, the credible like brand owned agents, you mentioned Ralph Lauren and they've launched, you know, the chatbot Axe Ralph on their app but that essentially, you know, functions like a chatgpt like service. You know, you can put input funky prompts and get results based on what's in their brand's product catalog. And I think that's useful because consumers are expecting more advanced search functions on any digital platform, right? Whether it's social media, whether it's streaming, whether it's shopping. And there are software companies that are creating tools that are closer to the types of AI agents that look up at tier or jinsmob building. But for the brands themselves, you know, there's this e commerce software company called Swap and they have a tool that a brand can integrate into their site, which is like a shopping agent that can also generate avatars and display goods on you and offer styling advice, although it's not yet completing transaction on users behalf. So there's options for brands to offer something similar on their own sites. It's just a matter of whether brands are ready to adopt that technology yet. You know, I need to have more conversation with brands to see how they feel and you know, I want to be having conversations about their thoughts on AI in general. So stay tuned. But you know, there's, there's credible resources for them to get started on this as well.
- [15:59]
A
Let's talk more about that though. I mean you said before with these startups, what OpenAI are going to do is train people to use them and to trust the algorithms behind them. How does that change fashion? I mean, how does that change how brands and retailers interact with customers?
- [16:16]
C
I think that this is all about finding the right fit for the person in question. I don't know that it's necessarily about the brand needing to change their product assortment because again, this is all about business, right? It's about increasing conversion. It's also maybe about increasing average order value, right? Because maybe I'm looking for just a beautiful olive green sweater and it knows me so well that it knows that I'm also maybe thinking about getting, you know, a pair of jeans. That will go for it, or a pair of olive pants that will go with it. But I didn't necessarily tell it that a lot of this just to back up even further. And I probably should have said that at the top of our conversation. These AI shopping agents are really supposed to be about replicating the in store salesperson. So when you go into a shop, it's not necessarily that if I come in there, me as a customer needs to redesign your collection and saying, well, you don't have enough olive. And so therefore this sucks. It's like, no, there's probably something here for me, but I don't work here, so I don't know all that you have the salesperson also go into the back of the stock room and say, there's this thing that we don't even have on the floor. That's exactly what you're looking for. Based on the conversation that you and I would have. That's what these shopping agents are trying to do in a digitized environment. So I don't know that it's necessarily gonna call for brands to like rethink how they're designing their goods. It's just about having these tools that are gonna help them sell them better and help them get into the hands of the people who are actually really gonna want them and have other things there for them to explore as well, you know?
- [17:47]
A
Well, I was thinking more about the Netflix effect or what you see with Spotify, where the algorithm does steer people towards certain types of content. The way people watch things has changed because of that algorithm. And it feels like maybe we're on the cusp of something similar happening in fashion. I think if you know what an LLM is going to serve up to people if they ask, I want my revenge dress, maybe you start making different revenge dresses as a result.
- [18:15]
B
I think another way to ask the question is also who's capturing the value? This is probably a different question, but like, who owns the most value from this? Is it the open AI tool or the large language model or the brand or the customer? Where does the value actually come in here? Like, who's getting the most out of it? Who actually wins the most? Or is it. Is it supposed to be an even split?
- [18:34]
C
Yeah, I mean, well, ostensibly the consumer should be to be the way.
- [18:38]
B
That's what they always say. I never took home a million dollars after I bought my revenge dress, unfortunately.
- [18:46]
C
No, no, but I mean, but the. But another thing that, you know, I should preference with. I used to work in retail. I worked in retail for a decade before becoming a journalist. And that is a big part of the job is like, you're there to make sure the consumer is getting exactly what they want and opening them up to things that they didn't even think would work for them. And in that way, the ultimate value should come from these platforms, from these resources to the consumer. In terms of, like, who's going to win? I think that the outside of like, the stupid answer of like, the consumer is going to win, I think it's going to be who has the resources to perfect this. And this goes back to, you know, what we talked about when we discussed this before. They're going to see a lot of consolidation. You know, like, are any of these platforms going to be able to scale on their own to be the winner? Probably not. You're probably going to see them getting consumed into an open AI or consumed into a Google or consumed into an Amazon. And so those already huge BMs that they're probably going to be the ones who are going to be the ultimate winners, to be honest.
- [19:50]
B
We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.
- [19:58]
D
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- [21:37]
B
Oh, I was also thinking about the Walmart news over the last few weeks. I think they're partnering with Open AI on some of this. Like who also then is liable when these tools make mistakes? Like are they, they're, they're so commingling the finances of this that everyone takes a stake in it when things go wrong as well. Like if it hallucinates and tells me that I can buy a product that doesn't exist on Walmart.com who deals with that? Who faces the consequences of that?
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A
Well, if it doesn't exist, you couldn't buy it, right?
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B
Well, I guess the being peeved, I will be peeved. Is it open AI or is it.
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A
Well actually that's a good question for you Sheena. Who would you be peeved at? Would you be peeped at Open AI or Walmart?
- [22:13]
B
You know, I think it goes back to what I said in the beginning. I do, I like technology and I, I found Chachi PT to be helpful for a few things and like you know, other tools like that. But I'm generally kind of like if I'm annoyed I probably won't use it again. Like this is stupid. Like you just told me I could buy this toothbrush that doesn't actually exist. I will be annoyed and I probably won't use that again.
- [22:31]
A
See, I think it's risk free. I think the reason brands, brands have been so eager to partner with these startups and with OpenAI because all the risk is on the AI companies. I mean they, we blame their results, we don't blame Walmart for the fake toothbrush.
- [22:47]
C
Yeah, but I mean also, I mean this all goes into like the filtration that comes that these companies have to do to ensure their agents can detect or a product sold or sold out or something didn't even exist. You know to, to that effect. You know a lot of these platforms, you know we talk about, you know, ChatGPT, they're partnering with Etsy, they're partnering with Walmart, they're partnering with Shopify, with these brands directly on sites meaning that they have access to their inventory level. So they should be able to tell if something exists or not. You know in terms of like they can pull search results across the Internet and you know, if that stuff is sold out or whatever that's fine. But like if it's like being able to check out directly on the platform that's with a partner that they're directly have access to what they own and what is available to buy so those are among the guard royalty startups, for one, are definitely taken into account. So that I think should be totally fine. But I actually want to go back to what you were saying. She knitted this idea of like, if it doesn't work. And also with Brian bring up early, decided if it doesn't work, then I don't want to use it. I have to say that I think that you are in the minority there. Like, I genuinely feel that way. Like, I don't think this is a dirty, mean term and it's not directed at you, but I just don't think that. I don't think that a lot of consumers today are Luddites. Like, I don't think that they're averse to technology. I don't think they're averse to like trying things out and like continuing to try things out. I just don't based on, like knowing consumers and talking to them. Even, like when going back to me working in retail when we would have certain things like, you know, having an iPad or like having mobile checkout. Consumers who you think would be averse to that, you know, whether. And it's sort of an ageless assumption of people who are older. Like, oh, yes, give me that. Yes, I'm sitting on the couch. Here's my card. You know, tap it right there so I don't even got to get up. Like, consumers are very much open to these advancements. So, yeah, I don't know. I think that there's room for experimentation. I do think there's a. A large enough consumer base to allow that experimentation and that testing and learning to happen.
- [24:49]
A
So, Malik, I fundamentally am on your side here that I actually think these will eventually take hold. But I also would say if something doesn't work, just because it's new tech doesn't mean people will be. They might be open to try it. But, you know, you can just look at the last generation of what we were calling AI Alexa Siri. I mean, those are glorified kitchen timers when they were actually meant to do almost everything we're talking about these AI agents doing. And it's because they didn't really work all that well. And I think a lot of what we're seeing right now is it's better than Alexa. It's not quite at I'm gonna let this do all my shopping for me level. And we're in this weird gray area where I think it could go either way. I think you're right. It will eventually get there, but it's not there.
- [25:36]
C
Yet it's not there yet. And I think you bring up a really great point. But one thing that I will say is that at least for these startups, and I would even say for you know, platforms like, like OpenAI, which has GPT, where we are now when it comes to businesses, regardless of sector, is they're very feedback driven. Like they're very much like, tell us what we're doing wrong, tell us what's not working so we can like implement that and fix it, you know, and we can continue to like improve on these services. So I think that, I don't think that consumers are going to be shy about telling, you know, a Batia or Jinsmo where they're messing up. And I don't think that having spoken to those, those, those founders, that they're absolutely not averse at all to like hearing that feedback, as harsh as it is, and implementing it in the ways that they can. Like, the thing about, as we all know what technology is, is all about iteration. It's all about continuing to build. The job is never done. And I think that now that this idea of feedback, you know, from consumers is just so common. Like it's this idea like they're constantly going to be feeding that to improve, you know, on what is they're trying to build.
- [26:45]
B
And I'm happily not the focus group for any of this. I say that often. I'm like, I don't think they're serving for this and I probably won't go back. And I agree, I agree with you that I probably don't represent most of the consumers in the market around that stuff.
- [27:00]
A
What do we think happens to influencers if we have LLMs out there making recommendations? Something else that happened while we were prepping for this episode is Shop My, which basically sets up affiliate links, sponsorships and other stuff for influencers, received a $1.5 billion valuation. And that was, you know, thinking about this episode and looking at that and wondering, you know, if I'm, I have this perfect LLM to tell me exactly what to wear. Do I still need influencers to play that role for me?
- [27:33]
B
I think influencers are a different product. I think that's just a different product and value proposal.
- [27:38]
C
You're gonna kill me. I think that both can coexist. I do. I think that both can coexist. Again, these AI shopping agents. And I'm gonna have to reiterate this to myself and to everyone. They're supposed to replicate the in store salesperson. In sales. Salespeople didn't die Going into a store, getting, you know, a VIP shopping experience at a Bergdorf's didn't die because there are now influencers and people are like looking at shopping halls that still exists. I, I think that actually the influencer in the world that they're building, in the world that the followers are trying to emulate is probably going to inform the kind of prompts that they give to. So, you know, I love, you know, Jasmine Tookes and like I spend nights watching her TikTok. If I want Jinsmo, it probably will know that I'm like, I want to replicate the fabulousness that Jasmine Tooks had when she was in the south of France sort of thing. Like that'd just be in the prompt, you know, but like the influencer is what's daring me to dream and actually helping me hone my sense of style. The shopping agent is supposed to just regurgitate that to me with the best results when I'm trying to actually buy products.
- [28:42]
B
I love her helping you to dream. I think that's incredible. But if it does, if, if the AI does complete the purchase for you, that probably is one way that that influencer that's using like the LTK or the Shop My doesn't get credit for the initial inspo. I think that's probably one area where it could actually affect the other.
- [29:02]
C
Oh, definitely. But I mean, that's just one monetization tool when it comes to these influencers. The big monetization tool for them is that they're getting paid by these brands, you know, so it's like if their value goes away in terms of actually influencing people. But again, this, these shopping agents I don't think are going to be the only way that people love making transactions. And who knows, it's probably going to be at some point down the line where these, these companies are partnering with influencers. Actually Batir is partnering with influencers to show that they're using the tool. And you know, speaking of Jasmine Took, she's, she's actually an investor in another tool called Ulta, that's an AI power shopping app. So they're already in bed with these, these businesses anyway. So there's a way to blend that ecosystem together in the future. I don't think that there's going to be a one or the other sort of like, you know, zero sum game here.
- [29:54]
A
I agree with you. I was trolling a little bit with that.
- [29:56]
C
It was a great, it was, it was a great question because it is something to consider. Like what all that goes into a consumer's mindset when they're looking to buy a great pair of jeans, when they're looking to buy a great sweater, when they're looking to be surprised and delighted by a funky silhouette. When it comes to a shoe, like, all of that is something that is within this ecosystem that has to be accounted for. So I think it was a great question, actually.
- [30:22]
A
All right, to close things out here, I would like to ask you to. What would it take for you to actually start using one of these to pick out what you're going to wear or what you wanted to buy? Gina, let's start with you.
- [30:36]
B
It will take a lot, is the short answer. I just, I think it is a combination of. And we've all told. I think we're all in this industry, we all dress well and we understand clothes. I just am not convinced by tools like this that it can tell me. I haven't seen anything that can tell me that I, you know, what to wear in a way that's convincing. I actually went to an event during Fashion Week where they had like a mirror that like helped you try on clothes, which is still. It's, it's related. It's not not related. And I thought this is just a little silly. It's not helping me. So it would really need to fundamentally feel helpful. And I haven't seen anything that's, that's landed there yet. But again, I, I might have felt like this about chat GPT 2 years ago, I was like, oh, I'm a writer. I'm a, I don't need anything to help me with an email. And I, that I, it got better. And I'm like, oh, I could just tell it to quickly write this email or to do something. Like, my mom would always ask me to write something for her and I'm like, oh, I can say write this low stakes email for my mom. So I think it takes, I might be the person that's saying I want the more sophisticated horse and buggy. And I just can't see the vision yet.
- [31:41]
C
I have, you know, my aversion to it is very similar to Sheena's. Was like, I feel like I can dress myself. One thing that I will say that that's prompted me to play with a lot of these tools outside of the fact that I'm writing about them, is this ability to discover new brands that I wouldn't have heard of that would suit my taste. Like that, to me feels like a personal unlock. I mean, I'm a fashion lover and an avid shopper. So I should be fertile ground for these types of innovations. And I do think that their ability to, like, show me things. Even if I say, you know, one of my favorite brands is La Mer, the fashion brand, you know, the Parisian fashion brand, not the skincare company. But if I say, you know, I'm looking for like a chic tar inspired, the film tar inspired, you know, La Mercury blouse, show me other brands that are, you know, along that vein, you know, like, or something that, that I wouldn't even have thought of, but that still suit my taste. I think their ability to do that would be what would get me to, like, continue to, like, use the tool. But again, I have to make the leap to actually start using the tool more meaningfully.
- [32:42]
A
And I'll say I'm, I'm kind of open to trying it for whatever, but there are two uses right now that I actually think these are quite good for. One is for really niche fashion questions. Let's say you're invited to, like, a white tie event, you know, something kind of weird you've never done before. Perfect for that. And it's also great for gifts. If you kind of have an idea someone might like an item of clothing or some jewelry, not your area of expertise, it's for someone else. Great way to get recommendations for that kind of thing, too.
- [33:08]
B
And for Malik's ex's wedding that we're all having to go to right now.
- [33:12]
A
My final question is, who hurt you, Malik? You keep talking about this revenge stress.
- [33:17]
C
That's another conversation of the day. And we need like an hour or.
- [33:20]
A
Two to get through that. Wow, that's a good tease for our next episode. But Malik, thank you so much for joining us today.
- [33:28]
C
Thank you for having me as usual. I love, I love, you know, conversing with you all about all that we do at BoF.
- [33:34]
A
Please be sure to check out Malik's article what it will take for consumers to let AI shop for them@businessofashion.com as we're learning, it seems like quite bit A this and other stories are available to BoF Professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes.
- [33:50]
B
You've been listening to the debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Sheena Butler Young.
- [33:56]
A
And I'm Brian Baskin. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Dear Career ladder, you've had your moment.
- [34:14]
B
You're linear and one dimensional ambition doesn't.
- [34:18]
A
Just go up anymore.
- [34:20]
B
It zigs and zags and squiggles. We're CEOs, executives, founders. We're advising companies, launching side hustles, taking breaks, defining our next act, ambition on our terms. The possibilities are endless. Chief Lead on join us@chief.com.
- [34:46]
E
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.