A (4:26)

Hi. Hi.

B (4:27)

Welcome to my podcast.

A (4:29)

It is so good to be here. Thank you so much having me.

B (4:32)

Oh, I'm. Thank you for being here. Truly. I had such a great time on your podcast a couple of months ago and I feel like we've. We're in a lot of the same circles. We know a lot of the same people. You are friends with my daughter, Natasha, the best lover.

A (4:50)

I miss her. It's been a minute. We lived in Dallas, Texas together at the same time. Around the same time.

B (4:55)

And then you both moved.

A (4:57)

And then we both moved.

B (4:58)

But I think you moved before cuz I think you were one of the people where she moved for the year. And then gradually over the year, all of her friends started moving out.

A (5:09)

She's like, wait, dang it.

B (5:10)

Exactly. So then her year was up and she's like, I think I'm going back to la. And she did.

A (5:15)

But it worked out well for her.

B (5:18)

And for you too.

A (5:18)

And for me. And for me. Yep. Although I moved to Waco, Texas, and I mean Listen, we love our Jonathan Bakluta, but I was ready to get out of there. My husband and I were like, this is a short season.

B (5:29)

Yeah. How long were you there for?

A (5:31)

We were there for two years. So my husband was. Grant was working at Harris Creek with J.P. okay. And we were like, this is a short time. Waco doesn't have a whole lot there, and it's a lot of fast food chain restaurants. We're like, what about the healthy lifestyle living? We need to pick it up here in Waco. But, yeah, now we're in Nashville, Tennessee, so.

B (5:49)

Yeah. And do you like it there?

A (5:51)

Love it's. We never want to leave. We're like, lord, if you call somewhere else, we will. We will be obedient. But we love it there.

B (5:57)

I have so many friends in Nashville and that have either were already there or left LA to move to Nashville.

A (6:06)

Yeah, a lot of people from Texas, California. It's so funny. I feel like whenever pastors on a Sunday are like, hey, who's been in Nashville longer than, like, 10 years? There's like, no hands. Almost everybody has moved within the last few years. It's crazy.

B (6:19)

Yeah, it is crazy. Most of my friends are there now. I have no friends left. But I love. That's because we're recruiting you.

A (6:26)

Come to Nashville.

B (6:27)

Well, I already moved, and it's not to Nashville. Everyone thinks I moved to Nashville or I moved to Dallas because it's been reported that I did, which is a lie. I did it. I don't live in LA anymore, but. But I am still making new friends.

A (6:41)

Yeah, that's always. Every season gives you that beautiful opportunity to make new friends. I feel like even entering motherhood, moving to a new city, like, all of those seasons of life have just put me in a position of like, all right, gotta. Gotta get myself out there again and make new friends.

B (6:57)

Yeah, I know. It never. It never really changes. You feel like you're in. You go through high school once and then you're over it. But no, high school always kind of follows, like, you always feel like, oh, I'm the new person and I have to find people to sit at the lunch table with me.

A (7:12)

Yeah, totally.

B (7:14)

Well, I really am so happy to have you here and just I get excited for. Because I think I'm probably about 20 years older than you, and I get excited when younger people are on the show and join and listen. We have a lot of people that write in on through the website for podcast questions, and there's a lot of young people that are listening and I get so excited because it's like mama bear. And I feel so. It makes me so happy. So great. Really grateful that you're here. I would love to. For you to share how I think a lot of people that are listening probably know you within ministry, even though some of the fame came from the Bachelor. But I am not someone who watches reality dating shows.

A (8:09)

Fair, fair.

B (8:11)

I didn't see the Bachelor, the one that you were on and the season that you were on. And so I would just love to know how that all started for you.

A (8:22)

Yeah, so it's so funny. I did not watch the Bachelor either. And I judged my friends who did. And so I remember I was living in Birmingham, Alabama at the time. My friends, we were leading. I was leading a small group with another friend and I come over for the small group. All of my friends are watching the Bachelor. We're supposed to be opening up the word of God. And immediately I'm judging them. I'm like, you guys, this is trash tv. We are not watching this. Turn the show off. And they all start laughing. You would be so great to go on the Bachelor. And I look at them and I'm like, I would never go on a show like that. I literally said it like that. And I. It's so funny because, you know, I. Ironically, I did end up going on the Bachelor, but they later that night, without me knowing, submitted my application to go on the show.

B (9:10)

They submitted for you submitted not with your permission?

A (9:12)

Oh, no, no. They sent in the pictures, they filled out the questionnaire, they did the whole thing. And so months later, because it was, I guess, a longer process. So months later I got the call. I was working out at Lifetime Fitness. I remember got the call and I get a call from LA number, answer the phone, think it's a prank call. They're like, hey, we got your application to come on the Bachelor. Like, no, you didn't get out. No, you didn't. And I had just graduated Bible college. And so I. And before that had dated a youth pastor. I mean, small town Alabama girl. Very much just wanted to spend my life telling people about Jesus. I was currently working in foster care and adoption. 23 years old, living in Birmingham, Alabama. And so when I got the call, I mean, I genuinely thought it was a prank call. But after, you know, a few minutes on the phone, I realized it was very much a very real thing. And I realized it was my friends that submitted my application. And so I remember calling my mom immediately and laughing. I was like, you'll never guess who Just called me and thought it was. I mean, thought we were gonna have a hoot and a holler. Thought. Thought it was gonna be the funniest thing. And my mom was gonna be like, for sure. You are not going on the road. This is hilarious. Let's tell your dad and tell everybody. And instead, she posed a question that I was not expecting. And she just said, have you. Have you prayed about it yet? And she said, before we make any decisions, we pray first. And I was like, oh, well, I wasn't expecting that. So, sure, yeah. Let me take it to God. Even though this feels not like something God would want me to do, and really just with my family over the next couple of months, we just continue to take it to God. And I kept taking the next steps just in peace. Felt the peace to keep saying yes. It was a long process. It was months of, you know, the interviews and all the things, and I just really felt this radical peace to say yes. I had never really seen the show before. I didn't really know what I was saying yes to, but I really felt like it was what the Lord was leading me to do, even though it truly made no sense. And it's so funny, because since then, I've had multiple people come up to me and be like, I wanna apply to go on the Bachelor. And I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I. I would not let anybody that I love go on, really. But now it's funny because I, you know, had to tell some of my friends that it was going on. And I'm sure at the time when they're like, you know, what. What are you going on the show because you feel like God is telling you to go on the show? Like, that's delusional. And now looking back, I'm like, yeah, I. I totally would have understood that perspective, but I really did. I had so much peace and. And said yes and stepped into it with such, like, had no idea what to expect. Surrendered open hands, open heart, and God, however you want to use me. Honestly thought I was probably going just to, like, love on some of the girls, encourage some of the girls. Right. And ended up making it all the way to the end. And just now was that.

B (11:56)

No. Okay, let me. Let me stop you, because I know you made it to the end and you ended up breaking up with him.

A (12:02)

Yes.

B (12:03)

But did that. How. How long do they tape the show?

A (12:08)

So I was there for the full two months. It was two months. Two month process.

B (12:11)

Did you really feel like you fell in love in two months?

A (12:14)

So here's what's crazy. I mean, I'm just going to be real. You're in an environment where you're competitive like me. Okay?

B (12:22)

I mean, listen, I understand reality tv. I'm a producer, I've been in the business a long time, so I fully understand you get the world.

A (12:28)

So you're in a competitive environment. You're like constantly talking about the same person all the time. All of the dates are centered around what would make you experience a really high high or a low low to get your emotions very entangled. And I mean, they know what they're doing. And so I. And you know, you take all of these like tests before they know very much how to read you and what, you know, what pulls your heartstrings. Like I got the very first one on one. It was like his family's vow renewal or his parents vow renewal or something because they knew I'm a very faith based person, family person. So they just know what you like. And so for sure your emotions get very involved and it's very confusing. But I would say for me personally, just because I had made the decision to save myself for marriage and because I had been so prayerful about who my future spouse was gonna be, I was not willing to settle for anything less than God's best. And so I continued to have this prayer in my mind and in my heart of just like Holy spirit, lead me, show me, reveal to me. Like, I am not gonna compromise, cave or give in just because I'm being told to or just because everybody else may want to do that or just because my own heart maybe wants to do that in this environment and moment. But it was kind of going back to like, lord, what do I want most over what do I want right now? Like, what is your will for my life? And not just like, what do I want right now in this moment? And just tucking away, locking myself in bathrooms. I mean, because there was cameras everywhere. You were miked all the time. So just like locking myself in a bathroom just to get alone.

B (14:04)

Is that where there weren't cameras?

A (14:05)

There were not cameras in the bathroom. So I'm like, all right, Lord, they can't film me here. So I just like put my hand over my mic and I just would like to cry out to Jesus and ask him for help and to show me the way. It was really hard and crazy.

B (14:17)

And I would imagine that you had already created and made your boundaries before you went on the show.

A (14:25)

Right?

B (14:25)

That wasn't something that in the moment you're like, should I Should. I mean, you may have thought those things, but you already knew. Like, I already drew my line in the sand as to I'm not gonna sleep with someone or. Which is really important to know that you made those decisions before. Because when you are feeling under pressure.

A (14:44)

Yes.

B (14:45)

You have to know what that decision is because everything can convolute your mind. You can feel all the emotions and then be drawn to make decisions that you could regret later.

A (14:54)

That's. And that's so true in everyday life. Like, for a lot of people listening, they're probably not on a reality dating TV show, but I think that there's so much truth in that. And that's what I learned from that moment of you have to make decisions outside of the heat and the temptation of a moment in advance of, who do I want to be? What are my values? What are my convictions? What does God's word say? Because then when you're thrown into pressure cooker moments, it's going to test you and it's going to push you and there's going to be moments where you're going to want to cave and give in. And if you haven't already made the decision of, this is who I am in Christ. This is what God's word says. These are my values. And I'm not willing to bend or cave. You're going to give in in those moments. And so for me, it was so important to take that time before to really stay prayed up. I had my people. I got like seven, eight, 10 people. And I was like, hey, every day that I'm this show, please be praying. Like, pray that God would use me. Pray that God would give me the strength to be unashamed of the gospel. Pray that I would have the ability to stand firm in my convictions and stay true to what I know is true. And. And I was so thankful for, for the people that I had standing behind me. But it's true. It's like when you get in those moments, it's like, you gotta know what you believe and what matters to you because it's gonna be really easy to give in.

B (16:03)

Were you ultimately happy that you went on the show? Do you have any regrets from it? Do you think that God certainly used it as a stepping stone for other things that he would have you do?

A (16:16)

Yeah. So we were joking right before we started recording this podcast, or not joking. We were talking about a brain doctor that my husband and I went to and I recorded a podcast with him. And I joked with him because I was like, I wanna, I Wish that I would have seen him before I went on the Bachelor and then after I went on the Bachelor, because he probably would have said, these are two different brains. Like, one is healthy, one is very traumatized. And I think that, for me, like, it was two different traumas. It was, like, when I was filming the actual show and just the pressures, the. I mean, even a lot of, like, the producers would call themselves witches. There was just a lot of really dark things that were happening. And then you're just in a very competitive comparison, you know, striving for attention, validation, environment. And so it just can feel. Feel really toxic. Even if that's not the intent, it can feel that way for everyone. And so it just. That in and of itself was really hard. Not seeing family, friends, not having access to family and friends. I didn't have a phone. I didn't have, you know, my local church. I didn't have even ability to listen to worship music. I mean, you're just stripped of so many things that would typically be your retreat or your, you know, escape.

B (17:32)

Were you allowed to have your Bible?

A (17:34)

I did have my Bible. Okay. Praise Jesus. I did have my Bible.

B (17:37)

How did your mom handle that, that you could. I mean, I. I know you're close with your mom.

A (17:42)

Yeah.

B (17:43)

And how did you. How did she handle that?

A (17:45)

It was really hard for both of us in different ways. Like, we talked. I mean, I would call her, like, 10 times a day every day leading up to that. And she actually wrote me, like, 41 letters. And just as she was writing these letters, the Holy spirit told her to stop at 41. And I. She gave me the stack of letters the day that I was leaving for the show. And as I'm there, I'm, like, reading a letter every single day. And then the day 41 actually marked the day of hometowns, and it was the day that I was seeing her. Hometowns is like when you take the Bachelor to go see your family. And that was the day that I was gonna see her again. And then it was almost this moment of like, hey, I've helped you up until this point. And then after hometown's like, hey, you have the Holy Spirit. You have, like, your dad and I have prayed for you and stilled everything into you that you need. Now you've got to fly. And, like, you have what it takes to make the decisions that you need to make. But it was truly crazy. It was, like, every day I would read a letter from her, and it was truly the Holy Spirit to me of just keeping me going, keeping me grounded, reminding me of truth, encouragement when I needed it. And so I was really thankful. But. And then she just was carrying a heavy burden and weight and interceding and praying for me during that whole experience. But it was, it was really hard. So I would say that was one aspect of trauma and then the other aspect was honestly watching it through like whenever it was live and people were responding to it and tabloids were responding to it and, and you know, I went from anonymous Alabama girl to all of a sudden having, you know, celebrities talk about me and People magazine post about me and all these followers and it just was a very crazy whiplash and just moment that I think no one can prepare you for.

B (19:25)

How long from when you ended the show did you have to keep the secret of what happened? Until it aired.

A (19:32)

So I came home right around Thanksgiving time and then it aired at the beginning of January and so I had about a little over a month with my family and things just felt so normal. It was so sweet outside.

B (19:43)

And then it was like I was.

A (19:44)

Like, great, like my life is back to normal. This is awesome. And then boom, it's like everything is different. And it's just weird when all of a sudden you have a lot of people making comments about your looks, about your body, about your faith, about your convictions, about your family and you know, you just. I had never been put in a situation like that before. It was like the people who knew me knew me and the people who, you know, like didn't know me, didn't know me.

B (20:10)

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A (23:10)

Yeah. Cause I don't think I even answered your other question. I really am so grateful that I went on the Bachelor. I think that it took me a year and a half to say that sentence because I was just dealing with a lot of trauma, hurt, pain, new, adjusting to just my new, I guess you could say life. And it took a lot of asking the Lord, like, why? Why was this my route? Why was this my journey? Why? Why, why did I say yes to this? Did I make a mistake? Did I hear you wrong? Should I not have gone on and just working through a lot of that? I lost over £20. I mean, I just, my. My body was, like, working against me. My body was trying to adjust to this new life and world, constantly felt under stress and attack and just had a hard time sleeping at night. And so that was a new thing that I was having to really work through. And just through, like, counseling and really, you know, taking my hormones seriously and trying to figure out just like health and wellness really made a shift for me. And then surrounding myself with really godly community and having people around me that I could just like, really open up about that experience with and be really honest and real about the good and the bad, you know, all the Beautiful parts of it and moments that I was so thankful for and loved and then the parts that were really, really hard. And so that community was. Was so huge. And as soon as I walked off, truly, like, as soon as I walked off the finale show or whatever, I started getting reached out to by, I mean, book agents and churches to come and speak about, because I had taken a stand on the show for my purity and saving myself for marriage. I talked about very openly about my faith and Jesus being my everything and not just an aspect of my life, but my whole life.

B (24:48)

Yeah.

A (24:49)

And I really wanted to, because you know how sometimes Christianity can be painted or shown on. On tv, especially reality tv. It can be twisted.

B (24:58)

It's the worst. It can change. It's.

A (25:02)

It's like, wow, I don't want to be a Christian, if that's what it is.

B (25:05)

I get frustrated with the majority of movies and television shows I watch that have. Have, quote, unquote, a Christian character because it. Because it's this caricaturation of a horrible human being usually that just uses the Bible to hurt people. Yeah, no, it's true. That's the majority of it. Which is why I produce movies that don't have Christians, which I'm so grateful for, because that's.

A (25:34)

That's a lot of. I mean, even just, you know, not even bachelor specific, but a lot of reality, especially dating shows that I had seen of Christians going on. It was like they a lot of times produced it to like, twist this narrative of like, you know, the Christian is either gonna just abuse God's grace, and it's just like, oh, I'm gonna live however I want to live. And, like, sure, I'm a Christian, or it's this hardcore opposite of, you know, like, I'm gonna beat people over the head with the Bible and you're this horrible person if you don't follow this. So I just was so like, holy Spirit, I need you, and please lead me and show me what to do. But I'm grateful now. And it was, to your question, already instilled in me. But I knew that I wanted to spend my life talking about Jesus and living for him in that way.

B (26:21)

So it just. Yeah, it gave you a new audience that you didn't even know you wanted or were gonna have.

A (26:28)

That's so true.

B (26:29)

But isn't that God?

A (26:31)

That is God. The irony of me looking at my friends saying I would never watch this show, and they're, well, now you're on it.

B (26:36)

So I said the same thing about my husband when When I. I know this is a far leap, but when I saw him, I went to visit him the first time, and my family were like, how did it go? How is this guy? Because we didn't live in the same city. And I was like, oh, no, he's really nice. I mean, it's not like I'm gonna marry him, but it's. He's a really nice, nice person.

A (26:59)

Yep.

B (27:00)

As soon as you utter those words out of your mouth, God's like, huh?

A (27:05)

Test it.

B (27:07)

Yeah, I love that. Well, this season, we are going to be talking about your book, and we're going to be talking about how to live a life of honesty and integrity. Can you tell me why? Why this book and why now?

A (27:26)

You know, I think we have a lot of forgiven Christians, but not a lot of free Christians. I was one of those. I knew I was forgiven in my heart, but I felt bound in my mind. I felt stuck in lies, cultural lies, but also personal lies. Lies like, you know, you're not good enough. You know, you are a failure. Those are some of the personal lies. But even, like, the cultural lies of the world's version of success or beauty or keeping up or fitting in or being a leader worth following. I mean, just on that endless cycle of striving and performing and feeling like I had to keep up to fit in. And that kind of has been woven throughout my life, high school, middle school, and even something that I have to fight still to this day. And so in thinking about that, and I had this one moment of looking at my husband, and I just was like, I just want to feel free. I just want to be free. And of course, he reminds me of the gospel and reminds me that I am free. But I'm like, yeah, yeah, but what do you do when maybe you've been set free from something, but then you go back to it again? Like, how do you actually stay free? And in that wrestle, I just felt like there. There weren't a ton of resources out there on what does it look like not to just get free, but stay free? What does it look like to have this moment of, you know, experiencing the power of transformation that happens when you encounter the grace of God. But then what about the next day when reality hits and those lies come back, those temptations come back? And so for me, really writing to myself and it from a very vulnerable place, and what the Lord was teaching me through it was kind of where it came from. And I remember I had this moment. I rewrote the book multiple times. It was. It was by far the hardest book that I've written. The other two were very much based on, like, my own journey in life. The first one kind of right after I came off the Bachelor. The second one, a little bit more on, like, my dating and married life. And this one was. It was very much more like theological and practical in the sense of just like, what are lies that keep us bound? What's the truth that sets us free? And then how do we apply that truth to our everyday life to stay free? And so it was very much like my own personal wrestle and a message that you never graduate from, no matter how old you are or how long you've been following Jesus, or if you're on the fence, if you want to follow Jesus. It's a message that applies to all of us. And so it was a very vulnerable and hard book. And I remember having this. This night where I wanted to give up and wanted to tell my. My publishers and agents, I'm sorry, I'm done. This is the hardest thing. Just the spiritual warfare felt so real. And I fell asleep. And I remember in the middle of the night, I got up and I, like, wrote something down and then fell back asleep. And the next morning I woke up and I saw the words, the truth everybody needs. And I just felt deep in my spirit, like, you need to keep writing this book because this generation is asking the question, what is truth? There's so many lies out there about what truth is, and if. If truth is relevant or experience based or personal to your own opinions and feelings. And, you know, the reality is, is that so many of us are desperate for freedom and so many of us are desperate for feeling alive, but we're turning to the wrong things to find it. And when you look in Scripture, John 8:32 tells us, then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And so this idea of truth and freedom are actually linked together. And when you find real truth, that's when you find real freedom. And so I just wanted to write honestly to myself, but also to anybody that feels stuck, that feels bound in their mind or in their emotions or in their relationships. And how do you embrace the truth of what God's word says and then apply it to your life?

B (31:13)

Yeah, well, it's great. I can't wait until we dig in. So all these coming episodes are going to be about, and we take a listener question or two on our show. And so I was going to start off with one, and then I forgot because I was so interested in the Bachelor. But But I'd like to finish with one. So our question today is from Tori, and she says, I am married to a non believer. He knows the Bible better than me, but thinks it's just made up and not real. What are ways for me to respond? What are ways for me to respond to that? We get some tough questions on here.

A (32:01)

That's a good question.

B (32:02)

It's a good, a great question. My husband and I were not really walking in faith when we first met, although foundationally we were both quote, unquote, Christians. We believed in God, believed in Jesus, but not really much beyond that. So I mean, I, we have a testimony together within our marriage of, I mean, praying for each other, but me praying for him to really know who Christ is. So I, I understand to a degree what it's like to be married to a non believer. However, like I said, there was a foundation there. But for your husband to know the Bible better than you, but not believe.

A (32:47)

It.

B (32:49)

I think my first answer to that is that, Tori, you, then you should read the Bible more. You need to study up. So you, you know the Bible at least as well as he does, if not more. And you, you know, there's so much theology around it and apologetics and you might not be able to convince him of anything, because I truly believe that only the Holy Spirit can unveil that to him and allow him to see truth for what it is in black and white. But my, my first thought would be, if he's not a Christian, why does he know the Bible better than you? I'm like, girl, read up. Yeah.

A (33:36)

Yeah. That's so interesting. I've been memorizing in scripture the, I've been going through the book of James and memorizing it and it talks about there's this really intense verse in James. I believe it's 2 verse 19. And it says, you believe that there's one God. Good. The demons believe that and shudder. And it's one thing to believe and it's another thing to submit. And so he may believe that, you know, that this Bible is here and that he's reading through it and that maybe there's a God, but to actually submit and follow that God is a whole different story. And I, you know, Scripture is clear that the Word of God is alive and active, that the Word of God is the word of truth, that the scriptures are God breathed. And I would just say to any person questioning the validity of Scripture, you know, it is what you're saying. It's going to take the Holy Spirit to Unveil and to reveal that because you can have a lot of head knowledge, but until you have a full heart transformation and you're broken over your sin and you're broken over what keeps you bound, that's not, you're not going to be able to have a real relationship and even be able to read through the Bible in a way that you want to receive and understand, you know, Jesus. It's interesting that in the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Jesus is, is honestly rebuking and calling out a lot of the people who quote unquote knew the Bible well, you know.

B (35:03)

Right.

A (35:03)

Because they weren't submitted, they didn't have a pure heart, they didn't have a relationship with God. It was all about knowledge. It was all about, you know, what they looked like on the outside. And so I would say that, and then I also would say specifically to husbands and wives, it talks about in First Peter 3 that, you know, to let it be your conduct that points him to the Lord. Sometimes I think as women we're so, you know, want to win people over with our words. We can be detrimental with our words. We can be amazing with our words. And that's why Proverbs rebukes us a lot in like not being nagging. Not being nagging. Wise. But I would say, you know, one of the best things you can do is to pray and to encourage. Absolutely. And to serve and to forgive and to just let him see if he's not listening to your words, then show him your actions, that your actions are different, that your actions are Christlike, that you're filled with the Spirit. And then back to your point, like, that you're in the Word of God yourself and that you know the Word. Not in a way of like, you have to be in this debate. Like I've got to like know the Bible so well so that if he asks me a question, I like have the perfect answer, but just in a way that you're truly transformed by the Word and you want to dive into the Word and know it and it's written on your heart.

B (36:14)

Yeah, you said that so much better than I did. And I loved your answer.

A (36:19)

I said what you said, basically.

B (36:20)

But it truly is a huge part of my testimony and that, that those verses in 1st Peter 3. So yeah, take a, take a read at those Tori as well, because they, they transformed me and my actions towards my husband so that, that I would reflect Christ to him. And that's the very thing that God can do for all of us. So I am so excited. We're gonna be back next week and we're gonna start to dive into your book and about living an honest life. So come back next week.

A (36:58)

Yay.

B (36:59)

We have something really special for you this season. It's a free resource that goes to with Maddie's book. You can Download it@candice.com Her dare to be True shaped these conversations, so there's a link where you can get that book too. And if you've got a question that you want answered in future seasons, head to Candice.com and send it my way. And finally, I now have a private podcast chat that you can join and those Details are at candice.comforward/together until next time. Be grateful all day, every day. Candy Rock Entertainment all rights reserved.

A (37:46)

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