Is Self Love … Selfish? - Lisa Whittle

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast

Episode: Is Self Love … Selfish?
Guest: Lisa Whittle
Date: September 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

Candace Cameron Bure sits down with Bible teacher and author Lisa Whittle to explore a nuanced and often controversial question: Is self-love selfish? Together, they dissect the cultural messaging around self-love and self-care, contrast it with a biblical perspective, and discuss how Christians can genuinely care for themselves without veering into narcissism. The episode also addresses listener questions, challenges common misconceptions, and offers practical spiritual resources for developing a healthy, God-honoring relationship with oneself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Fashion, Individuality & Confidence

• [03:53–08:10]
  • Candace and Lisa start by chatting about fashion preferences, favorite colors, and the individuality they express through style.
    • Lisa shares her love for bold patterns and how she’s always bucked trends to “wear what I want to wear.”
      • "I do not care what everyone else is wearing … I was always an individual." (Lisa, 04:54)
    • Both reflect on getting their “colors done” and how clothing choices connect to personal identity and self-confidence.
    • The conversation acts as a light-hearted segue into accepting differences, which parallels how people approach self-love.

Revisiting "Your Body Is a Temple"

• [08:13–11:10]
  • Recap of last episode, which explored 1 Corinthians 6:19 and the concept of the body as a "temple."
    • Lisa notes the church's teaching sometimes created shame, focusing more on behavioral rules than understanding God's design for our bodies.
    • "We must behave our way into pleasing God is really what it was about." (Lisa, 09:24)

Secular vs. Biblical Self-Love

• [11:54–14:55]
  • Listener questions initiate a deeper dive:
    • How do we “love ourselves unconditionally” and “treat our bodies with grace and love”?
  • Lisa admits she used to be wary of “self-care,” preferring “soul care” to sound less “narcissistic.” She’s since changed her view, emphasizing that biblical self-care is not selfish.
    • "He wants us to love ourselves. He wants us to care for ourselves. So none of that is wrong in any way." (Lisa, 13:44)
  • Key distinction:
    • Secular self-love: Shallow, temporary, focused on serving self.
    • Christian view: Whole-body theology, rooted in a “glory mindset,” serving God and others through caring for His creation—ourselves.

Candace’s Discomfort with “Self-Love” & Cultural Hijack

• [14:41–16:44]
  • Candace shares her aversion to the term “self-love,” associating it with narcissism and indulgence, but acknowledges the term’s validity for people who genuinely struggle with self-esteem.
  • She expresses frustration with Christian critics who attack the term without understanding its nuances or motives.

The Church’s Responsibility

• [16:44–18:38]
  • Lisa argues it’s the church’s role to steward the conversation well and teach a biblical understanding of self-love and care, rather than villainizing secular culture for “hijacking” those concepts.
    • "We have to be people of the light, people of faith and understand that the responsibility is on us to know the truth … and share the truth." (Lisa, 17:13)

Social Media, Body Freedom & Danger of Surface Solutions

• [19:20–23:52]
  • Discussion turns to “body freedom,” body positivity, and performative self-love on social media (e.g., swimsuit selfies as proof of freedom).
  • Lisa warns these actions may bring temporary “highs,” but don’t lead to lasting or spiritual freedom. True freedom is scriptural, not “likes-based.”
    • "That might be a body goal for you … it's not the ultimate of soul freedom though." (Lisa, 21:52)
    • "When the Son sets you free, you are free indeed." (Lisa, 23:01)
  • Candace notes that social media often amplifies comparison and external validation instead of genuine peace.

Motive Matters: Why Do We Care for Ourselves?

• [31:16–35:34]
  • Lisa outlines the critical difference between secular and Christian self-love: motive.
    • Secular motive: Serve self.
    • Christian motive: Serve God and fulfill “kingdom mindset” (Matthew 28:19, Great Commission).
    • "Care springs from who and what we love... I love God, I am serving God, and so I have to care for myself." (Lisa, 33:55)
  • Candace and Lisa examine their own histories of being “mean” to their bodies, realizing rejecting self-love is incongruent with accepting God’s love.

The Key: Knowing God’s Love Personally

• [35:31–41:29]
  • Lisa unveils a turning point: she couldn’t answer when a friend asked her, “When was the last time you felt loved by God?”
    • She relates this to her struggle with body image, drawing a direct line between accepting God’s love and being able to love herself.
    • "If we don't know, if we can't access the love of God in our life, we won't love ourselves. We won't love our bodies. We can't." (Lisa, 41:02)
  • Candace encourages practical ways to discover God’s love, notably through scripture and prayer.

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Listener Questions & Practical Steps

How Can I Love Myself Unconditionally?

• [41:29–43:10, 44:45–50:51]
  • Lisa’s guidance:
    • Start reading the Book of John to know Jesus' heart.
    • Simple, child-like prayers asking God to reveal His love.
    • Test whether self-care practices actually satisfy long-term—if not, turn to God’s word for real transformation.

Candace’s Bible Journey Testimony

• [44:45–50:18]
  • Shares her life-changing experience doing the Bible Recap with Tara-Leigh Cobble, reading through the Bible chronologically and understanding God’s persistent, loving pursuit throughout scripture.
    • "When you stick with it and you read it ... and you see it ... from outer space looking down ... God loves us so much." (Candace, 49:08)
  • Emphasizes that only knowing God’s character through His Word brings lasting self-worth.

Reframing Self-Love

• [50:18–54:56]
  • Lisa stresses that love—above all programs or practices—is what transforms us deeply and permanently.
    • "Love is the only thing that's more powerful … it is the theological underpinning for everything we do in our bodies." (Lisa, 51:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lisa (reflecting on God’s personal love):
  • "God said to me, I love you through that bush. The purple bush right outside your window. I know you love purple. I knew you'd live here someday. That bush was planted there so you'd wake up and see it every morning." (Lisa, 39:59)
• Candace (on reading the Bible):
  • "That Old Testament not only set up the good news of Jesus... but that's where I saw God's heart really for the first time in my life... the pursuit, the great detail that God goes through." (Candace, 48:40)
• Lisa (on the pitfalls of secular self-care):
  • "If you're looking for those things [bubble baths, vacations] for your soul to be free, you’re never going to find it in those days. You’re going to need another massage … and another way." (Lisa, 21:51)
• Lisa (on motives):
  • "We can't get weird about this. This ties into my body being a temple … if you don't understand that in the context...the light bulbs won't go off." (Lisa, 34:00)

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Book Recommendations

• Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund

  • Lisa strongly recommends this as a transformative read to understand God’s heart and love.
    • "Every believer should read this book... even if you don’t know Jesus, I think you should read it because it exposes his heart for you." (Lisa, 52:56)

• Lisa’s own “Body and Soul” Bible Study

  • Further resource for whole-body theology (details in show notes).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [08:13] - Last episode recap and the misapplication of “body as a temple”
• [14:41] - Candace’s aversion to “self-love” and the Christian perspective
• [19:20] - Dangers of body positivity “freedom” on social media
• [31:16] - Motive matters: Self-love to serve self vs. self-love to serve God
• [39:59] - Lisa’s story of God’s personal love through the purple bush
• [41:29] - Steps to discover God’s love and love oneself biblically
• [52:08] - Recommended resources and closing listener question

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Tone & Style Highlights

• Honest and vulnerable storytelling about struggles with self-image and faith
• Direct, respectful confrontation of doctrinal and cultural misconceptions
• Warm, encouraging, biblically-rooted guidance

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Conclusion

Candace and Lisa offer a refreshing, scriptural perspective on self-love and self-care, encouraging listeners to examine their motives and root their self-worth in God’s unshakable love rather than fleeting cultural trends. The episode is a heartfelt invitation to step off the self-improvement treadmill and find true, lasting acceptance through understanding God’s heart as revealed in Scripture.

Transcript

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Hey really quick. Before today's episode, I am going live on Tour for the first time this fall, November 20th through the 23rd in four cities.

We will have fun and games, audience.

Questions, full house trivia, real talk about women's health and fitness and more. Get [e-mail] tour before we begin today's conversation, I want to give you a heads up. We will be talking about some sensitive subjects. This episode is intended for mature ears, so please listen with this in mind.

[Lisa Whittle]

It's funny because sometimes I disagree with myself.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Oh, I know. I went back and read a couple of my first couple of books and I'm like, wow, okay.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah, right?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I mean, I don't agree with you Candace.

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Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together. Welcome to the Candace Cameron Bure podcast. We're sharing honest, faith filled conversations about life's challenges, our celebrations, and. And everything in between. Lisa Whittle is here this season to.

Answer all the questions we have about our bodies.

And today we're diving into God's love and what it really means to care.

For our whole selves on YouTube. Click below to subscribe, then tap the bell so you'll never miss an episode.

Come join us. Hi, Lisa.

[Lisa Whittle]

Hi.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

How you doing today?

[Lisa Whittle]

I'm doing great. Yeah, Doing great. Good to see you.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You too. I, I love your caftan.

[Lisa Whittle]

Thank you. I am a caftan girl. I do like them a lot.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I love them in my favorite colors.

[Lisa Whittle]

I did sort of think of you with this color.

Yeah.

It's kind of your vibe and I know you enjoy these colors. Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

What is your favorite color?

[Lisa Whittle]

That's a great question. Do you know that green is not my fav. Favorite color?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I thought we were going to stay on everything.

[Lisa Whittle]

Although you may be changing me. You may be changing me. I'm kind of getting into it more. I, I actually love, love any. In kind of anything in the color palette of like a purple. I, I think it's because it was my dad's favorite color. Oh, yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's very sweet.

[Lisa Whittle]

My grandmother loved purple and so I do. I love a purple. I, I'm trying to get into more color.

I have my colors done.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I was just gonna ask you if you've ever had your colors done.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah, I did. And I person, I will be honest. I wear what I want to wear.

Yeah.

I do not care what everyone else is wearing.

Yeah.

I'm always, I was always an individual. Like I look back at pictures of myself when I was a little girl and I was the one, I was wearing mix and match.

I have this, this, this dress that my mother made. I would pick out like a style that I wanted and I would say, mom, can you make this?

That was exact. That was me at an early age. So there was this long dress that.

I picked out the, the, the, the pattern.

I picked out the fabric.

I had her make it and then I Was wearing these striped socks with clogs, and that was, like, my look.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lisa Whittle]

I loved it. I didn't want anyone else to look like that.

That was just me.

Yeah.

So to this day, I don't really.

Care about what anyone else is wearing, But I do love fashion, so I see it.

I'm watching.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

What season are you? I just kind of had my colors done because that's not a me thing either. I want to wear what I love, and I love color, so to be restricted in color. Sad. But I still was really curious. So what season are you?

[Lisa Whittle]

Well, the person that did mine, I. I love her so much. Sher. Brendell. She's been doing it forever. She doesn't really do it by seasons. It's more like, you're a cool.

You're a warm.

Which I should know this. I'm a bad student. I think I.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You have to write it down in your notes.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes, I know. I think I'm. You're right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You're. Yeah. Your things about.

[Lisa Whittle]

I'm a clear. I'm a clear.

Sher.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So that would be neutral.

[Lisa Whittle]

I'm a clear.

Or I wear the.

I. I look the best in vibrant colors. So, like, this would be a color for me.

It's also.

She. Also with, like, patterns.

Yeah.

So it has to be kind of like, bold patterns. It has to do with your eyes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So I think that would be more of a winter if we did it in seasons, if, you know. And I'm. I'm no expert. I'm just learning it. But I. So just the opposite of you. I love the color green. I love bright, vibrant colors. Like, if I could just live in jewel tones, I would. And so I had them done. And I was a summer and a soft summer, which are all pastels.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And I've never liked pastels unless it's just, like, cream or something like that. I like neutrals in that way, but it's purples. I. That's probably my least favorite color is purple. And I'm like, you're telling me I look good in. Best in purples and, like, soft. Mint and soft.

[Lisa Whittle]

Amazing on you.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And now, though, I see it.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Now that I start putting it up. Because I. Those aren't what I gravitate toward, but I'm like, oh, wow. They actually look better with my.

[Lisa Whittle]

That's right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Skin color. My skin tone. I thought I was warm, and I'm a cool skin tone. I'm like, what?

[Lisa Whittle]

That is the thing when you. When you get your colors done, you can see, like, she would drape these things on me, and I would be like, I love that shade of brown. But she would put it on me, and I was like, I look like death.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

It's.

[Lisa Whittle]

You can really tell that it. It does not look good on you. So it made perfect sense why I can't wear cream or whatever. Like, even though I have cream jackets, I like them.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

But you would look good. Invite, like, white. Yeah. Vibrant, bright white. But I look better in a cream.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes. It makes perfect sense.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay. We're like, you know, I know this.

[Lisa Whittle]

We still besties. We just have to wear different color palettes. That's the thing. Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That will set us apart.

[Lisa Whittle]

It will. It will. Yes. Perfect. Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Well, we are in a big part two this week, because last week we talked about the body being the temple.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And. And this week we're continuing that conversation, so bring us back up to speed. Just remind us of what we listened to or what we talked about last week.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right. We talked about the fact that that verse, your body is the temple of the Holy spirit. Spirit in First Corinthians 6:19. Beautiful, incredible, vibrant verse is often just taken out of context. And really, I feel like either the church didn't teach us well about it or.

You know, perhaps taught us in such a way that we took on this idea that if we were behaving in a certain way, dressing in a certain way, not conducting ourselves in a certain way, that we were embarrassing the church, embarrassing ourselves, embarrassing our parents, embarrassing.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Our faith heritage, and ultimately creating shame within us, too.

[Lisa Whittle]

It did, at least for me, that.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Association with your body's a temple. Don't do this, don't do that.

[Lisa Whittle]

A set of rules, and then, you know, put in our. Our thought process, I must behave. I must behave my way into pleasing God is really what it was about.

And so that created a whole set.

Of problems we talked about. It created problems with us in our marriages, even now, having sex with our husband. It created, I think, for this sort of resistance even towards what God's design for us was. To be pure in our bodies, you know, to be holy in our bodies.

What is good, what I think we should want to desire as we want to desire him.

But there's been a resistance because nobody wants to be sort of beat over the head with a Bible verse.

Right.

That's universal in all of us.

We want to be drawn to the beauty of God's design for us. And so what we talked about, really.

Is that the church sort of failed.

To address that in a very profound way. And what always happens, Candace, with really any issue is what the church fails to address. Secular culture says. I'll pick that up and I will address it in the way that I.

Want to spin it.

You know, we know that Satan wants to distort anything.

Yeah.

Can be used.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, exactly. You take something and it, it sounds good. It really does. It sounds well meaning. But if we, if we really pull it apart, we'll see that it's this manipulative tool that Satan often uses.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right. There is. That's the, that's the tricky thing about it. There is a thread of truth often.

Yep.

In secular culture.

Yeah.

There's something that sounds really good, sounds really close. And the problem is it's completely off.

Right.

It's actually completely off and will lead us in a path of destruction.

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So we're gonna talk really, about what that secular culture has used. And I'm actually gonna start with a couple of the listener questions, because in this episode, we're gonna answer these questions. So we have one from Ginger, and she wrote, how do I love myself unconditionally? And Karen wrote, how did you learn.

To treat your body with grace and love?

So we're going to talk about self love and what that looks like and what is self love versus God's love and everything in between.

[Lisa Whittle]

That's right. Well, you know, one of the questions that, that I get a lot is.

About self care, and I know you've.

Gotten this a lot, too. Is self care wrong. What. What is the line? And I know in another show we're going to talk all about topics. We're going to weigh in on those.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. All the things you guys really want to hear our opinions on.

[Lisa Whittle]

They can't wait for that. But, and this may surprise you, or maybe not, but I am not against the term self care or self love. In fact, what we're really talking about when we're talking about self care is ultimately self love. When I was a younger author, I remember writing in one of my early books. And I try so hard, Candace, not to lament some of the early things I've written. It's funny because sometimes I disagree with myself. Oh, I know.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I went back and read a couple of the. My first couple of books, and I'm like, it's been more than 10 years. And I'm like, wow, okay.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah. Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I mean, I don't agree with you, Candace.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes.

Right. Because we grow, we change, we learn more. I mean, that's the process of life. But I remember as an early author writing something about self care and saying.

You know, I really prefer the term soul care.

I was so over spiritual about it because in my view at the time, saying self care just felt so, I don't know, narcissistic, hedonistic, whatever you want to say.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lisa Whittle]

So I over spiritualized it and said, I'm going to call it soul care. As if that was like much more holy. But in reality, the way that if you understand God's design for us, you understand that he wants us to love ourselves. He wants us to care for ourselves. So none of that is wrong in any way. I think what we have to do though is realize what we're really talking about. Because there is a distinction here between our view as people who know Jesus, as believers in Jesus Christ and with a kingdom lens, with a whole body theology, with a glory mindset.

Yeah.

And secular culture who has a very narrow view, a very shallow and a temporary view of self care.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Yes, I want to talk about that difference because even though the term for me, self care, I'm okay with self love just makes me want to puke. It just sounds so gross to me.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I'm like, self love, self. That feels so, like over the top, indulgent. It feels narcissistic to me. Like, oh, you need to love yourself. And I'm like, you, you put food and you, like, you feed yourself every day. You love yourself enough to like, want to keep making your body run. I'm like, how much more do you have to like, analyze? Like, I don't know. And I kind of, I get also frustrated with that term. But I can step back and say, no, obviously people can genuinely dislike their body. They don't like who they are. They, you know, I can come and look at it through a different viewpoint and say, okay, I understand what this term means and it's very, very real when people are like, no, I, I hate myself. I mean to the point of I don't want to be here anymore. So when they want it, when you then want to talk about self love, I'm like, okay, I get that. Like, I, I just need to get out of my own.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

My own way to see the difference in the meaning of that. But just the term itself, I, I don't like it that much. But when I also hear it within any form of media. And this is what, how I, I want to understand the, I mean, I, I understand the distinction, but how you share the distinc people. Because as a Christian, if I use the term self love, I already know the People that are going to come at me in the comments, the Christians that'll say, you're not being a Christian, that is so indulgent, that is not Christlike, you don't need, you know, because we hear all of that and it becomes very legalistic. So share with us the difference. And then how do we share what the difference is with others when we're talking about it from our Christian lens?

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah, that's a great question. Let me ask you this, because I think this represents a lot of Christian viewpoint on this. Is the reason why you have an aversion to the term, the term self love, because in your mind it symbolizes the obsession with self that we have.

Now in our culture.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yes.

[Lisa Whittle]

Okay.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's exactly what it is.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah. And I think that's, that is the, the bend. I think that is the problem that a lot of us have as believers because we see how secular culture has sort of hijacked the conversation. I think we can be mad at secular culture for that or we can as believers take a hard look at ourselves and say, have we really been responsible with the conversation as the church? And I think first and foremost we have to admit that no, we have not been responsible to say our body is a temple. What does this mean? Do I understand what it means myself and have I educated and discipled people in the faith myself to know what this means? So first and foremost we have to take the responsibility as the church and quit blaming secular culture for everything. Because as non believers, they're going to respond. Non believers would. They're going to do what they know to do and say, I'm going to love myself because they're looking for love so much. That's all they know. And so non believers are going to act like non believers. Do we have to, we have to be people in the light, people of faith and understand that the responsibility is on us to know the truth and the responsibility on is on us to share the truth. So we can get very, very judgmental and put our nose up in the air.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's true. And I do, I get judgment. I'll see, you know, maybe see a woman. And of course, I don't know any of the circumstances, but maybe they've chosen to get a divorce and they're like, I'm just, where I'm just taking care of me now and I'm doing all these things for me and it's me, me, me. And there feels like, it feels like there's no humility in it. And that's why it Turns me off that phrase, self care. Because I'm like, you're focusing on yourself. Why don't you focus on God or focus on Jesus? And yet I don't know what's in their heart. I don't know what's going on in their private life that maybe that does include parts of that. But what I'm seeing it, it makes me push away that term.

[Lisa Whittle]

Sure. Now here's what I really have a problem with. What I have a problem with is believers who know the truth, that they know or should know the truth because they know Jesus, they have the Holy Spirit that indwells them, they have the word of God, and they are still buying into this body positivity culture, this hype culture, believing that this body freedom, that this self care, that this self love is going to come from all these hype messages.

Right?

That it's all that it's going to come from bubble baths and vacations and, and we'll talk about this a little bit more. Just because you're worth posing, imposing on social media in a bathing suit, that that's going to ultimately give you the body freedom that you're looking for. Now, I know somebody's going to get mad at me for saying the latter of that, because the reality is, is if your whole life you've not been feeling free to pose in a picture on social media in a bathing suit because you've been so tied up about your cellulite, or you have your whole life stood behind your kids in pictures and all of a sudden you are going to step out and show your body differently, then that does feel like freedom in a sense. So I want, I don't want someone to get caught up and get angry immediately and say, oh, she's judging me. That's not what I'm saying. What I want that person to hear me say is that might be a body goal for you. We've talked about body goals on the show. Yeah, might be a body goal for you. It's not the ultimate of, of, of soul freedom though, right? Because according to scripture, that's, that's not what it is. So I, I just want us to be able to begin to separate. You might love yourself, you might love your, your soul. You might be taking care of yourself in some, some significant ways in the sense that, okay, you know, I, I am going to take a break from work and go on vacation. I am going to take a bubble bath. I love all those things. Maybe you go to the nail salon, maybe you get weekly massages. All of those things are great. But if you're looking for those things for your soul to be free, you're.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Never going to find it in those days.

[Lisa Whittle]

You're not. And you're going to need another massage.

Yeah.

And you're going to need another vacation. And you're going to need to find another way because that picture that you post on social media will give you a temporary high. You will get likes, comments, shares, saves, and you're gonna feel good and you're gonna think, ah, yeah, but again, we talked about waiting for that one moment. That's not going to give you ultimate freedom because we don't find it through those means. What about all the women who never had social media? You mean women 20 years ago couldn't be free? Scripture stands the test of time.

Yeah.

And there's nothing in scripture that talks about that.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I think a whole many more of us were freer before social media.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Because we're now comparing ourselves to the world.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right. So I just have a problem with people that say, for the first time I've been free because I was able to go on social media and put that picture of myself in a bathing suit. Got it, sis.

What about my grandmother?

Could she have been free? Well, the word of God says that she can be.

Yeah.

When the sun sets you free, you are free indeed. It doesn't say if you put your picture in a bathing suit on social media.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Right.

[Lisa Whittle]

She didn't have it.

Right.

So what I'm trying to get us to is this core understanding that the Bible is the information and the foundation that we need for then, for now, forever.

Yeah.

And then if you want to go post a picture of yourself on social media in a bathing suit, girl, knock yourself out.

Yeah, but that's a body goal.

Yeah.

Might be a good goal. Might be something that feels good. Might be something that, that helps put a little pep in your step.

Yeah.

But that's not body freedom.

Yeah.

According to scripture. So I want us to be able to begin to know the differences.

Yeah.

You might make that decision after you develop your whole body theology. And we'll talk about in a few later shows some of those questions that you ask yourself about bringing glory to God and the way you make decisions.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, I think, Yeah, I think that's good because I, you know, I toe that fine line and, and sometimes I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong when it comes to social media and posting. And, you know, I was thinking, because I really enjoy fitness, I post a lot of snippets with my workouts with Kira and I always get a handful of comments. Not, not a ton, but I, there's always a handful of comments when I'm in my leggings and a sports bra. And I get it, I totally get it as a mom, you know, I don't really show cleavage. That's not my thing. But I get that you're, you can see my body in a sports bra and leggings and you know, sometimes I have the T shirt over it. But like I don't wear baggy clothes to work out because it's hard to.

[Lisa Whittle]

Work out in baggy clothes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, I, it's just logistically and, and some people do and it's great if it works for you. I don't like it. And I'll also say, and this is kind of what my question is, it's like how do I want to decide? I don't know if it's a conviction thing or where I'm making my decisions from because is it when I put on workout clothes I feel better about myself and I get to see my progress. That's the biggest thing for me. So when I'm doing my bicep curls or just doing my shoulder presses and I get to see that line of that muscle that's now like it's come through. I can see it. Those things excite me. And so I want to wear something where I can see that movement Now I get that I don't need to post my workouts on social media. However, I enjoy it and I know it encourages a lot of people. But those handful of messages that come in and say I wish you'd put more clothes on for your workout. And some of them are for reasons of, you know, you're. I let my kids watch anything. But this is a fine line of like I don't want my young kids quite seeing my boys. Like seeing a woman in workout wear yet. Or sometimes it's like are you showing off? And I know my motive behind that. Especially like having, you know, this 40 plus year journey of body. Yeah. And it's not about showing off for me, but am I happy about my progress? Yes, I really am. And so that is body goals in that sense. But my motivation for it isn't to go, haha, look at me. I really come from a place of I have found freedom because my freedom comes in from Jesus, which is whole body theology. And let me encourage you and go get movement and find what works for you. And I go, here's what I do and whatever to help people like that. But I always. I guess what I'm saying is I always want to examine my heart and make sure that my motives are pure and right and God honoring. And I know I'm going to offend someone along the way like we always do no matter what we post, especially as Christians. But I do take that role as role model seriously and because I want to honor God. But it's just a, it's a, it's a fine line between that body positivity, God's love. What what is the motivation behind what we're sharing and how we determine what that is for each of us.

I'm excited to share something that's close to my heart, the History and the People of Israel as a follower of Jesus Israel is where it all started. It's where he walked, taught and ministered. The Bible reminds us that God never breaks his promises. Romans 11:28 says that the people of Israel are deeply loved because of the promises God made long ago and he's faithful to keep those promises. That's why I'm sharing with you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. For over 40 years they provided food, shelter and life saving aid to Israel's most vulnerable, especially Holocaust survivors and the elderly. Will you join me in standing with the people in Israel? To learn more and find out how you can help, visit ifcj.org that's ifcj.org.

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[Lisa Whittle]

I think you nailed it because. Well, first of all, I have to say this just as a quick side note. I think a lot of what you're talking about is the problem with social media, and that's not what this is about. But you know, I would say if someone is concerned about their, their child seeing things, you know, that is a, that's a social media decision they need to make about even their own investment on social media as well. So everybody has the opportunity to unfollow someone and not have that shown. And so there's personal responsibility we all have to take with our social media. And that is exactly what you're talking about with your motive. That is exactly what this is about, Candace. Because the interesting thing about the people that follow Jesus, the whole faith culture is kind of what I'm terming that as. And then secular culture, which is, you know, the side that that is, you know, not following Jesus, not really understanding any of, of the Bible, and all of that is both of us are really talking about self care and self love. We are, whether we're terming it that or not. And I understand that self love sounds very narcissistic and maybe we don't even use that term.

I don't care.

I don't get hung up on terms and labels, honestly. But the motive is where it shifts. Because if you think about it, you've got secular culture over here with the motive of self love, self care, to serve self.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Right.

[Lisa Whittle]

But you have the Faith, culture, people that know Jesus, the people that are following Jesus. What should be our motive is serving God, serving kingdom, because our life mission is glorifying God. Also Matthew 28:19, which is the great commission, which is to win souls, make disciples.

Right?

So everything is kingdom mindset. So even as I love self and I care for myself, because really, here's the reality. Care springs from who and what we love. That's that because you care for your body, you. You love yourself based on who and what you love and who and who you serve. So I, I love God, I am serving God, and so I have to care for myself. I have to love myself.

I cannot loathe myself.

It's inconsistent.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Right.

[Lisa Whittle]

With the motive and the mission in.

Which I live my life.

So that's why we can't get weird about this. This ties into my body being a temple. This ties into how I live my life. Candace.

That's why whole body theology is important.

If I'm parsing this off and I'm going, oh, I don't like self care. It's a weird term, you see.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And just in all the weeks leading up to this, we've shared so many stories about how I've been. How we've both been so mean to our bodies.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yes.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And yet I'm now sitting here going, I don't really like self love.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And those are incongruent then.

[Lisa Whittle]

Right. So. So this is why this is so important.

Yeah.

This is why I will be a broken record and say we've missed the first step of whole body theology, developing a glory mindset. And why it's so important to say, okay, let me go back and do that. Because we have just gone over here and said, but let's. About self care, but let's talk about how weird self love is. And if you don't understand that in the context of your body's a temple, you see, it will. The, the light bulbs won't go off. And I didn't, I didn't. I just went like, oh, let's say soul care. That sounds more spiritual. You know, it's weird if you don't understand it. That's why you have to study it.

And you have to understand it, because.

Then it will help it make sense. Then it will help it not be weird. Then it will help. Help it just be fluid.

What we do with our bodies often.

Is we obsess about our bodies or we reject our bodies. We do one or the other. And when you understand that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It just disallows either extreme.

Yeah.

So that's why it's crucial this whole thing hinges on one thing. How much we understand the love of God. Because self love and self care stems out of understanding the love of God for us. You can't hate your body when you understand how much God loves your body, you can't. And I didn't understand that for about 50 years.

Yeah.

I had a friend who asked me, she said, lisa, she said, when was the last time you felt loved by God?

And.

It took me a while to answer that question. Now, like you, I mean, I. I answer questions for a living. Like I'm. I'm interviewed a lot. And I've been asked all kinds of questions that have maybe should have stumped me. And I can always come up with something, you know.

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Really.

[Lisa Whittle]

I sat there and I thought, even.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

As a Bible teacher who knows the.

[Lisa Whittle]

Bible so well, you know what I thought about Candace? I thought if she'd asked me the question, when was the last time God showed you his strength? Or when was the last time you felt God's power? I could have come up with something really quick, like, I think I felt God's power and strength yesterday when he reminded me that he was enough in this way. But when was the last time you felt loved by God? I thought, this one's hard. My dad preached thousands of sermons literally over his lifetime. But I remember as a young woman, when my father was going through just a lot of things that I probably shouldn't have even been intuitive. Intuitive enough to realize was a lot of wrestling with God. I remember I said to my mother, I don't think dad knows that God loves him.

Why would I think that?

But I just knew in my spirit that this man that preached the message of God's love did not know it for himself. I sensed it. Here I am, all these years later, intuitive enough to know that my dad didn't know it. It. Could it be true that I didn't know it either? I'd never consider that, Candace. But when she asked me that, I had to really think about it. And I couldn't come up with anything. I remember I thought about it, thought about it, thought about it for weeks. And I realized that it was tied to my body journey, that I could not love my body. I could not love myself, because I couldn't even remember the ways that God loved me. I couldn't name them. I couldn't think of them. I couldn't access them. I knew he loved me. I knew it in my heart, in my spirit. I knew it cognitively, but I couldn't name it. I couldn't express it. And I wanted to be able to express it. And so I remember I was at home and I looked out my window. I'm gonna cry. There's a bush outside my window. It's full of the most beautiful purple flowers. They only bloom in the spring. I love purple.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I know.

[Lisa Whittle]

I cannot plant a thing. I am horrible at any kind of, like, lawn care. But whoever lived in that house before me, I had some really good gardening tendencies. They planted all kinds of cool stuff in that yard. And they planted a purple bush right outside my window. And I remember looking out and thinking, oh, that's the most beautiful purple bush I've ever seen in my life. And God said to me, I love you through that bush. The purple bush right outside your window. I know you love purple. I knew you'd live here someday. That bush was planted there so you'd wake up and see it every morning. Those little ways God is always loving us.

Yeah.

We just don't notice them. We might say it's a coincidence. We might say, oh, it's just a pretty bush outside my window.

No.

If we don't know, if we can't access the love of God in our life, we won't love ourselves. We won't love our bodies. We can't.

Yeah.

So that's a very important part of this process of self care and self love.

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Thanks for sharing that. So for someone to find the love of God, like Ginger asked at the top of the show, I asked, how. How do I love myself unconditionally? What are. So how do we start? Someone that doesn't know the Bible yet, someone that doesn't understand the depths of God's love.

[Lisa Whittle]

I have some favorite places in the Bible that I always start. I love John. 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John is a beautiful book to start in because you know, you get to know Jesus. When you know Jesus, you get to know his heart. And when you get to know the heart of God, you understand that, how he is for you, I think that's a beautiful place to start. I also think very simple prayers are a very good place to start. If someone doesn't have access to a.

Bible yet, if someone feels intimidated to read the Bible.

I think coming simply as a child, in a childlike manner with your heart and saying, God, I want to know you. I want to know your heart. For me, that is a beautiful way to start. There is no prayer that you can pray that is too simple, that is too dumb, that he won't hear and that he won't care about.

Yeah.

And it could be related to your body, could be not related to your.

Body, but it is the truest thing that you'll ever know. And the love of God is what will change and transform you far more than any program you could buy online or any type of system you could access. It will change everything about the way that you approach self care and self love for the rest of your life. Your motive will become different and in that way it will become lasting. And that's really what we're all looking for. I mean, listen, I love a good vacation.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Me too.

[Lisa Whittle]

I love a good vacation.

Yeah.

I love a good massage.

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I love all the, I, I love all the pampering things.

[Lisa Whittle]

I love them.

Yeah.

They just won't last.

I would ask you to test me on this. I would ask anybody. Think about it from your own life.

Yeah.

Have they ever been enough? If they had been enough, Candace, we wouldn't be sitting here today.

Right.

We wouldn't be talking about.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Exactly.

[Lisa Whittle]

So anything that we're talking about, I would say test it yourself.

Yeah.

You know, if, if all of the.

Supplements of all of the cold plunging.

Of all of the, if everything that.

We'Re talking about was enough.

Yeah.

Then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yeah.

So, you know, again, it's not at least a whittle idea, it's a Bible.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Idea I'm gonna add to. And I feel like a broken record on this because I tell everyone this. I feel like I say it on the podcast every single day, single week. But Tara Lee Cobble truly like changed my life in reading the Bible. And because I, I didn't go to seminary, I, you know, I'm just trying to, As a young 20 year old, start reading the Bible. And it felt very intimidating to me. I would just flip randomly through the pages and even, even as I, I was growing in my walk with, with God within my 20s and I so desperately wanted to understand the Bible and pursued it. And I did. And of course I was learning things and God was growing me and I would do Bible studies and those were great. It's so much good information. But I had still never in, you know, probably 15 years or 20 years read the Bible cover to cover or read it chronologically. I'd read most of the Bible or probably every book within the Bible at a certain time in my life. But never as a cohesive book to look at the story, the history and the story from Creation to, you know, Genesis to Revelation, to look at the overview of God creating the world and when he is coming back to the world. And Tara Lee Cobble is another Bible teacher, if you guys haven't seen that. It's the very first season of the Candace Cameron Bury podcast, and we talk about the Trinity in it for that whole season. But. But before she was on the podcast, I started doing the Bible recap, which helps you read through the Bible chronologically. And I didn't even know that the Bible wasn't put together chronologically in the sense that, you know, you're reading, you're in Samuel or second Samuel, and then some of the Psalms that are about David. Those are the Psalms, but I didn't realize, oh, that's David talking. But here's the story in Samuel. And now this is his heart pouring out. I just thought, okay, the Psalms are just these random things that people wrote about God. But now taking the person of that reading, the story, story about it, all of that changed, really changed my life. I just love the setup because she breaks it down. I love her commentary that is pretty neutral. She tries to stay out of the weeds in a theological, you know, for theological differences, or she'll just present the theological differences. Okay, sorry, I don't mean to over complicate this, but once I read through the Bible the first time chronologically and got. Got through the Old Testament, and I'll say I got through it, because there's a lot of books that feel very intimidating. They can feel really dry. They could feel boring at times. But when you stick with it and you read it and you see it from this, this, this, you know, space viewpoint, like outer, like outer space. And then you're looking down at everything that God has put together and pieced together and the patience that he has for all of us and his people as he keeps coming back and coming back and just going, I want you to know me. I want you to know me. I want you to know who I am. I can't. I. That is God's love to me in my face. And the New Testament has, you know, not only the words of Jesus himself, but the disciples, and they share in more, probably I would say, in, in ways that feel more contemporary and also very life applicable to us. But that Old Testament not only set up the good news of Jesus coming back, the fulfillment of all of that prophecy, but that's where I saw God's heart really for the first time in my. My life, because I'm like, I always got, okay, Jesus, he sent his son. He loves us. He died for us. I understand that with head knowledge, but the setup before that of the pursuit, the great detail that God goes through just in building the temple itself, all of the Levitical law that may seem dry and boring, and yet you go, God loves us so much and that he fulfilled all of it. It, like, he takes so much care and detail that to us, it feels like. Like, why am I even reading this? And you're like, no, because God cares that much. Down to the centimeter of what something is, down to the weight of what a piece of metal is, down to the seed of blah, blah, blah. Like, care so deeply. And that. That just changed my life to see the love of God. And so, I mean, I think we're saying the same thing. Like you. You have to read the Bible and know who God is and start soaking up his word to understand the depths of his love for you. Because it's so great.

[Lisa Whittle]

It. It really will change. It will change the way you see your body. It will change the way that you conduct yourself in your body. So then it. It becomes not. Your body is a temple. Don't embarrass your temple. Don't behave a certain way. You are compelled by the love of someone who loved you that much to do things differently. It's only the love that ever brought anybody back.

Like the prodigal.

The person that was it deep in addiction, the person that hated themselves so much. It's only ever love that. That changes you. Something might change you temporarily, but if anything's ever going to stick, it's going to be a love that is more consuming than hate. A love that is more consuming than disease, sickness, addiction. Love is the only thing that's more powerful. It is love that is the. That is the theological underpinning for everything that we do in our bodies.

Yeah.

And. And so that's why you have to understand it. That's why you have to understand all of it. The. The coming. The crucifixion, the. The. The. The death, burial, resurrection. You. You can't. You can't function in your body the same way when you get that. And so it's not about a system to know another system. We. We know enough systems.

Yeah.

This is about the Bible, and it's that important.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So good. Okay.

I loved this conversation.

[Lisa Whittle]

Yeah, me too.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

We're gonna finish with one listener question.

It is from Demi or Demi.

What books would you recommend about self love. I too have been guilty of being.

Mean and talking mean my body.

[Lisa Whittle]

Well, I will tell you one book that really shifted things for me with it during this whole time about when someone asked me, when my friend asked me about the question about love was a book called Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortland.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay. I haven't read that.

[Lisa Whittle]

Oh my gosh, Candace, you have to.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay.

[Lisa Whittle]

And I am very picky about what I read and I'm very picky about what I, what I recommend. This book is a game changer.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay.

[Lisa Whittle]

I will tell you that.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Gentle and lowly.

[Lisa Whittle]

Gentle and lowly. And it is a book that is. I believe every believer should read this book.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay, I'm going to my audible and downloading now.

[Lisa Whittle]

I'm telling you I want to hear from you later when you read it. Even if you don't know Jesus, I think you should read it because it exposes his heart for you. And what's funny about this book is I wasn't immediately drawn to it. Shocker. I'm always late to get on to a bandwagon of anything. And people had told me about this book a lot.

Yeah.

And I thought I might read it. I don't know. And I'm the same way though.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

When something gets too hyped up, I'm like, no, that's what I'm saying. I don't want it.

[Lisa Whittle]

I don't, I don't get stuff.

I don't like it. But I will tell you. So I'm very honored that you would even say you will read it since I recommended it. But it, I, I started to read it. But I will tell you why I wasn't drawn to it at first because I am a person drawn to the idea of strength. So I. The strong God.

Yeah.

But when I started reading it, I immediately was like, this is exactly what I need. I've read a lot about the strong God. I needed the loving God. I needed to know about God's heart for me. But what I love about how he writes this book, it's very, very, very theologically sound. And so that means a lot to me. And I'm not saying that as a snob, like I, you know so much about theology. But what I. The reason why I say that is because a lot of times when people write things about God's love, it can.

Get a little woo woo, totally.

And not toe the line scripturally about who God is in the full. And that's really important to me. And Dana Ortland talks about who God is in the full. Don't misunderstand him. And I also love that he just talks about God and doesn't have to tell a lot of side stories and it's just very straight down the line, very straightforward. You are going to love it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay, great. All right everyone.

[Lisa Whittle]

That's the reason why I say this is we need this for self care and self love is because you have to understand God's heart for you.

Yes.

And then it will flow from that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's great. Oh I can't wait to come back next week. If you felt seen in today's episode, don't miss out on our free resource the Whole Body Guide. You can find [e-mail] or in the show notes along with Lisa's Body and Soul Bible study book. So you have two books to get and pick up at the end of this episode. If you also have a question and you want it to be featured in the Future, head to kandice.com and send it our way. Until next time. Be grateful all day, every day.

Candy Rock Entertainment all rights reserved.

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