← The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast
The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast
Is This Spiritual Warfare… or Just a Dead Battery?
00:43:41
Candace is joined by Pastor Jonathan "JP" Pokluda — and a very special surprise guest, her son Lev Bure — for conversations that pull back the curtain on spiritual realities most people avoid.
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- [00:00]
Candace Cameron Bure
And I went and I opened the door to that closet and when I looked in, I saw something that was so out of place, it was just confusing my eight year old brain. I was like, what is that? And suspended, like halfway down the closet was this snake.
- [00:14]
Jonathan Pacluda
Oh, a real one or a.
- [00:16]
Lev Bure
A real one Snake.
- [00:20]
Jonathan Pacluda
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- [02:31]
Candace Cameron Bure
What is this is like such a long time in the making because we have to talk about how I was on my way here not too long ago to do this very thing.
- [02:44]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah.
- [02:44]
Candace Cameron Bure
And I called, I was, I was driving from San Diego to la, and I call a pastor friend who's in like the Laguna area.
- [02:53]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah.
- [02:53]
Candace Cameron Bure
And he said, where are you headed? I said, I'm going to Santa Monica. He goes, no, you're not. And I Said, why would you say that? And he said, because there's a fire and I'm from Texas. And so when there's a fire, it's like, okay, there's, you know. And he's like, no, like, there's a fire headed for Santa Monica. Like, you're not going there. And then it all got canceled, so.
- [03:14]
Jonathan Pacluda
I know.
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Candace Cameron Bure
So great to be here with you guys.
- [03:16]
Lev Bure
Well, I feel like I heard this story already because I listened to JP's podcast becoming something as well. But yeah, thanks for having me.
- [03:22]
Jonathan Pacluda
You're welcome. I'm so glad because Lev was supposed to be on, on the podcast during the family season and he got sick. So now not only did you not. Are you not, are you getting one episode, but you're getting an entire season. So now Max is going to be really jealous also.
- [03:38]
Lev Bure
Yeah, it's going to be great. I have something to hold against my siblings, which is going to be awesome, man.
- [03:42]
Candace Cameron Bure
We can bring, we can bring Max in on the fun, but yeah, so good we could.
- [03:49]
Jonathan Pacluda
I'm so happy you're here. Yeah, I'm great to be here. Really excited about the season and what we're talking about, which really is spiritual warfare.
- [03:57]
Candace Cameron Bure
Everybody's favorite subject. Everybody's like, man, I hope they, I hope she covers spiritual warfare. Like, for a long time I was the, the dating guy and that was fun. I was in the young adult world, right, talking about relationships and now kind of, I did. I spent three years researching spiritual warfare and now I'm the, the, the demon and Satan spiritual warfare guy. I'm like, I'd much rather go back to being the dating guys.
- [04:21]
Jonathan Pacluda
So do you not find though that once you bring that up, like, I think it's so fascinating, but is it this immediate turn on or turn off when you bring the topic up?
- [04:32]
Candace Cameron Bure
I think people try to put you in a category where it's like, I don't, I would love to hear Yalls spiritual background. But like, for me, I didn't grow up charismatic or Pentecostal, right. I was raised Catholic and then I didn't go to church in college. Really, like just like left the faith for the world, pursued the things of the world. And then I got, I became a Christian really in a non denominational church, but it was very tame, non denominational. Like, you know, might see somebody raise their hand in, in worship. But that was about as wild as it got. And I realized like, this whole like the spiritual warfare aspect of the faith was just this like black box of mystery. And so I think when you say, hey, spiritual warfare. People are like, oh, are you kind of a demon behind every bush guy? Or are you like, what is that?
- [05:22]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah. Are you one of those crazy Christians? Like, you're one of the extreme ones?
- [05:26]
Candace Cameron Bure
Exactly. So I. I studied this. Like, I'm reading the Bible on a deserted island, trying to understand everything that it says about spiritual warfare. And it says it has more to say about spiritual warfare than marriage. A lot of Christians don't even realize that. So, like, if we were going to do, like, a sermon series and be honest about it, I mean, our. Our spiritual warfare series to our, like, relationship series would be 10 to 1. Because there's a lot in the scripture, Genesis to Revelation. I mean, you get three chapters in, and there's crazy. There's a demon as a serpent, Right?
- [05:56]
Lev Bure
So why do you think that is? Like, why do you think we, as Christians have kind of set the topic of spiritual warfare aside? We're not giving it as much attention as the Bible as a whole, Will.
- [06:09]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah, I think it's because we think you can't know. Like, the. Here's the story that, like, really got me in the deep end on this is somebody, they got up, they got dressed to go to church, okay? And so they're like, hey, I'm gonna go to church. I'm gonna get my life in order. I haven't been to church in a while. Like, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna sort all this out. They get up, set their alarm. They get up, they get dressed, they go to their car. I'm gonna drive to church. They turn the key, and it's like, click, click, click, click, click. Car won't start, battery's dead. And they're like, hashtag, spiritual warfare. And I heard that, and I thought, like, I'm not a hey, just by faith kind of guy. Sometimes I feel like doubting Thomas. Like, I want to put my finger in the holes of Christ's hand. Like, hey, are you really who you say you are? Like, that's how I got here. I really became a Christian by exploring world religions, looking at the. The Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the Jewish faith, Islamic faith, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Science, Scientology, all the things. Trying to figure out what do I really believe? And so when I heard, oh, my car won't start spiritual warfare, I'm like, what. What does that even mean? Like, what did a demon do? They make your battery go dead? Like, did they leave your door open? Did they have to pop the hood? And if you take your car into the shop, and they're like, it's the alternator. I'm like, how did that. How did a demon do that? So I think we hide behind this reality. Well, you can't actually know. And when I started studying it in the scriptures, mind you, I'm a pastor at this point. I've been teaching the Bible for over 10 years. I mean, have taught hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of sermons. And it just felt like this aspect of the faith I had just kind of kept safely locked away. And we'll get into this in future episodes, but I interviewed Deliverance people. I interviewed a Catholic exorcist. I really wanted to understand all the perspectives on this. And I'll never forget the. The guy goes, you know, they love technology. And like, that was weird for me. I'm like, demons love technology. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, come on, is that real? Like, like, come on, what is that? What does that even mean?
- [08:18]
Lev Bure
Right?
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Candace Cameron Bure
Like, can they make your car battery go dead? Like, what can they do? And I thought, you can't know. And that's why I don't think we touch it. But when you open the scripture, like, the whole book of Job is really a case study on what they can do.
- [08:32]
Jonathan Pacluda
Right, Right.
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Candace Cameron Bure
And so I'm just. I'm faced now as a Christian, Do I actually believe this? Like, do I believe this? And. And if I believe, if I take God at his word, then. Then I have to. And so that was an interesting journey for me. What about you guys? Like, where. What did you guys. What did you grow up learning about spiritual warfare? Like, what's the foundation? Like, what do you believe about it today?
- [08:57]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, like. Like you in. In our home growing up. Because I say, like, for those of people that know my testimony. Started going to church at 12. My mom was a believer, my dad wasn't. I didn't. I didn't really start walking with the lord until my 20s, but I always considered myself a believer since I was 12. Yeah, and. And went to church, but it wasn't something that we really brought back at home who weren't like, doing devos at home or studying the Bible. Although I remember when I was probably 17 and I did love Jesus, I just wasn't studying the Bible, but I read that book and everyone knows this book. If you are, well my age at least, you probably won't know it, love.
- [09:46]
Lev Bure
But it's called you're nice and young, Mom. There's nothing to worry about there.
- [09:49]
Jonathan Pacluda
Thanks, baby. It's called this Present darkness Yeah. So, yeah, never heard of it. I think it's Frank Peretti Pretty, who wrote it. And that book just opened my eyes up and I. I loved it. And I'm not a big fiction reader either. And when I read that book, I was like, whoa, is this really real? Could this. Is this how it works? Is there really this spiritual realm that we can't see that's kind of hovering around us, even walking alongside us, that we don't know? And is that the same as, like, creepy things that we feel? If we felt like we were into haunted house or something, you know, is that all the same kind of thing? So I've definitely thought about it, but it just wasn't really talked about. And I've always been fascinated by it, but I've also been nervous about it because I. At what point are we talking about the spiritual realm? Are we feeling the spiritual realm? But at what point am I actually dipping into it and opening a door that I'm not supposed to? And that's where those boundaries go up, and I'm like, okay, it's real, but I don't really. I guess I'm not going to dive into it.
- [11:11]
Candace Cameron Bure
That's why. That's a better answer to your question.
- [11:13]
Lev Bure
Right.
- [11:14]
Candace Cameron Bure
I think you. I think you beautifully, masterfully said why we don't want to touch this. It's like, well, there's an aspect of it that's scary. How much am I supposed to know about it? But when I. When I research it, am I giving way to it? CS Lewis said, there's two mistakes we make about the devils. Interestingly interesting to me that he says the devils, because I think we often think about Satan, but, like, not that he's just another demon, but he says there's two mistakes we make about the devils. One is to give them too much power and authority, like, to believe and entrusting them too much. And the other is to deny their existence. I think it was the movie Reservoir Dogs that said the greatest trick the devil has ever pulled is convincing the world that he doesn't exist. I think there's a third mistake we make in 2025, which is to believe that there are demons, but that. That belief having no implications on how we live and what we do and how we pursue God. And I want to say two things here. One is like, if you want to enhance your prayer life, you want to pray more, you can buy a book on prayer, you can begin to study prayer. But nothing in my spiritual journey has made me pray more than understanding the Demonic realm, the spiritual realm, growing in. Like when I began to realize, oh, there is a war around us, like that has driven me to pray. Now here's the other error I noticed that I started praying too much. Like, Gord, like, God, would you protect me from the enemy? God would you. And I wasn't enough pursuing relationship with the Father that it became so defensive. And first John 4, verse 4 says, Greater is he who is in us than he who is in the world. So we don't have to operate in fear, but we should operate with an awareness. And it's important. I think a lot of your viewers, a lot of your listeners, if you are a Christian, that we're not really thinking about this too much. And then the other thing I want to say is, and this is so big for me, Candace, to be here because like tgif, Full House, like that was such a, such a, like formative journey of my childhood. Like every single Friday night watching Full House, big time. And then what's cool is Finley. So now my, my 16 year old, she loves Fuller House. You. So Lev. I, I had the privilege of, of doing Lev and Elliot's wedding and crazy.
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Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, I know, I want to talk about that too. But we have, we have the whole season to talk about all of those things.
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Candace Cameron Bure
Absolutely. And, and so she was watching Fuller House and Lev had sent, gifted me a bottle of wine and it was sitting on the cabinet and she was. And Finley was like, what's that? And I was like, oh, it's actually. Her son gave that to it. It was on the show, it was on the tv. And I was like, her son gave that to me. And Finley was like, what? You know her. So it's a big deal that I'm here today. That's all we're gonna say.
- [14:19]
Jonathan Pacluda
Oh, that's cool.
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Candace Cameron Bure
But as you think about Frank Peretti, like in that book, how that shows us things, that's like a lot of our, our Christianity is informed by books and movies, like outside the scripture. Like, you think about the movie Left behind and like people are like, but that's it.
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Jonathan Pacluda
That's like where, when my faith got real, that's where my theology started. Left behind and this present darkness.
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Candace Cameron Bure
And so that's what happens. You see something happen in a movie and you're like, oh, that's exactly how it's going to happen. Like, that's our best effort to describe like the spiritual realm in, in our world today. And that's why I started on this journey of just trying to like read the Scriptures and say, all right, what does the Bible actually say about this? And yeah, so I think a lot of what we believe about the spiritual realm, about the supernatural is more informed by experience. Books like non fiction books and movies that are attempting to, you know, display the supernatural in, through, in and through acting, which isn't bad as long as we're cross referencing the scripture and saying, all right, what is it?
- [15:25]
Jonathan Pacluda
Right.
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Candace Cameron Bure
What does the Bible actually say? What does it teach? What can I know? And, and I don't think we need to be afraid of it because Jesus taught us about it. I mean, it's an aspect of his teaching, right?
- [15:36]
Lev Bure
Yeah, yeah. I think there's a really interesting dichotomy talking about spiritual warfare and also just God and Christ in general, where it seems like, you know, we can be Christians and believers who focus heavily on the goodness of God and even see the beauty of what he's done through creation, but we can ignore the reality of the spiritual warfare. And then it also seems like where we can be a people who heavily focuses on darkness and evil and demons and we don't give light at all to Christ and the goodness. And so it's really interesting that I feel like we don't actually see, you know, the reality of the two together.
- [16:16]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
- [16:16]
Lev Bure
Very often. And why do you think, like, both of you, like, what do you think that comes from, like, why do we focus on one or the other? I know there's a chasm between, you know, the nervousness or the scariness of approaching the reality of spiritual.
- [16:29]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah. But let me ask you, growing up in our home, how did we, I mean, what are your thoughts on it?
- [16:37]
Lev Bure
Well, growing up, I feel like we've actually had some interesting experiences that make you wonder and think in the same, in the same way where we can, you know, sit on top of a mountain, overlook the view and think like, man, there must be a God.
- [16:54]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
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Lev Bure
I think there's been, you know, contrasting moments where scary things happen. And yeah, it makes you think like.
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Candace Cameron Bure
Is there something else?
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Lev Bure
Yeah, there's something else out there. You know, I don't think that it's, I don't think that it's, you know, by surprise that sometimes people sit alone in a room and they say, I feel like there's something else here. You know, I think there's a lot.
- [17:14]
Candace Cameron Bure
Of like a darkness, a heaviness somewhere. You go somewhere like with, you know that where there's people with nefarious intentions and you're like, man, there's a darkness here. There's A heaviness here. And that's so real, for sure.
- [17:24]
Lev Bure
You, you feel that, you feel that weight. You feel that heav heaviness. And I feel like we've grown up, you know, there's been, we've had homes, you know, moving from home to home, where you walk in and you just feel this sense of heaviness.
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Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
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Lev Bure
And you can't explain it. It's hard to verbalize what you're feeling. But I think those experiences growing up have forced me to, you know, address those fears, like, what's really going on here?
- [17:48]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah. And you don't, you don't have to be afraid, but I'll. And you also don't have to, like, scoff and think it's weird. So I kind of was saved and to a flavor of Christianity that if you said, hey, we're going to buy this house, that we're not the first homeowners. You know, other people have lived here, and we're going to anoint the house with oil or we're going to pray over every room. That, that would have been seen as like, man, that's really weird. And, like, don't do that. That gives the enemy too much weight. And, and, you know, he's conquered and Christ is victorious. And it's like, no, I think that there can be a really faithful step just to. It's not, you know, I don't have to be afraid. I don't have to be tense and just like, hey, you know, God, would you protect this home? Father, if there's anything impure here, if there's any lingering spirits here, would you just push them out? You're, you're, you, Your weakness is stronger than our strength. Your foolishness is wiser than our wisdom. Your ways are not our ways. And so would you just make this place safe? I pray that the conversations that happen in this home are edifying to you. And so as you begin to, that becomes normal. I, I, I don't, I don't think it is weird, but I was, I was really saved into a flavor of Christianity that would have thought that was really strange and out there and bizarre.
- [19:04]
Jonathan Pacluda
And I've heard that a lot, too, from people when they say, well, you're giving the enemy too much weight.
- [19:09]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah. Yeah.
- [19:11]
Jonathan Pacluda
And so what's the balance there?
- [19:13]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah. And I think, like, it, it's what you said is, I believe the reason the enemy, particularly in America, like, wants to convince us that he's not here is because if you believe in Satan, you believe in God, like, there's really nobody out there that says, oh, I totally believe that there's a devil, but I don't believe that there's a. A contrasting higher power, right? And theologically speaking, we do not embrace what I would call a heresy that is labeled dualism. Dualism teaches that God and Satan are equal, opposing opposite forces. And I don't believe that. I believe that that God is victorious over Satan, that he's infinitely stronger than Satan. And in fact Satan, the King James version calls him Lucifer, is a created being by God. An angel was created good. So people say, well, did so then, did God make evil? No, God left the possibility for evil. He made Satan good. Ezekiel teaches us that he was the most beautiful of all the angels and, and Satan or Lucifer. The devil didn't want worship God. He was made for God's glory. He didn't want to worship God. He rebelled and said, I want to be like God. I want to be worshiped like God. And so God kicked him out of heaven. The scripture tells us, and this comes from Isaiah, and Ezekiel kicks him out of heaven and sends him to guess where. Earth, the planet Earth, where, where we are. And so he's here. And Revelation 12 tells us that he took one third of the angelic realm with him. So those fallen angels are what we're calling dem. And so one third of the angelic realm is here on earth with Satan, who is their leader. And they are just causing havoc. And they, their, their theology is sound. They know a lot about God. James says even the demons believe in shudder. So some people are like, well, I believe in God. It's like, well, believe in God. A belief in God is not a saving faith, right? Even the demons believe in God. And so they're here, they know that they're defeated. They've read the back of the book, they know where this goes. So they're running this scorched earth strategy, which is to say, hey, we just want to cause as much havoc, burn this place to the ground, as much destruction as we possibly can. And that's what's happening here. And so the three of us and everyone listening, we're in kind of this supernatural test. Who are we going to worship? Are we going to worship God, the creator of the heavens and the earth? The one who is good, who gives good gifts to his children, the one who is, you know, he's slow to anger, abounding in love, the one whose kindness leads us to repentance, the one who would love us so much that he would give his only son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins and raise him from the dead. Are we going to worship that God? Are we going to worship the. The what? Second Corinthians, chapter four, verse four calls the the God of this world. You ask a bunch of Christians who's the God of this world? And they'll often say Jesus, Jehovah, Yahweh, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Well, Second Corinthians, chapter four, verse, Chapter four, verse four says that Satan is the lowercase G God of this world, that he has a lot of authority here and he. He tempts us with the lust of the flesh, the pride of eyes, the pride of life, the lust of the eyes. He wants to offer us the world. That's what he did to Jesus in Matthew 4. Hey, all of this can be yours. And so that's as we go the way of the world and we're not thinking about the things of the kingdom, thinking about the things of what happens after we live in this life, then we're lured away. But I think it's really interesting for us to, to realize like we right now as we sit here and as you guys listen to this or watch this, you're in that same test. A satanic spirit is a selfish spirit. It's the one that says, I don't want to worship God. I want to be God. I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it rather than serve others. So I think that's a really fascinating thing to think about.
- [23:20]
Jonathan Pacluda
How do you think that people would go about their daily life if they were thinking about life in the spiritual realm? Like, how would it change for people?
- [23:31]
Lev Bure
Where even should people start? I mean, I feel like people could be listening, we're even talking here. And, and you could have grown up knowing about spiritual warfare your whole life, or this could be completely new to you. Like, I didn't even know that we're in an active battle. So where do people even start? With a proper view.
- [23:50]
Jonathan Pacluda
Not with a Ouija board. Okay.
- [23:53]
Lev Bure
Please know.
- [23:56]
Jonathan Pacluda
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- [26:03]
Candace Cameron Bure
But yeah, you know the, the title of the book, your story has a villain. Like that's really like a good starting place. Understand you have a villain. There is a supernatural presence that hates you. He hates your children before they're born. He hates your marriage before you meet your spouse. They have, they have studied your family line, your legacy. You know the, the predispositions or inclinations towards sin. Like they're experts on you and they hate you and they want to hurt you and, and you don't have to be afraid, but you do have to draw near to the shepherd. While they are not in any way afraid of you, like angels are afraid, amazing creatures. Like when you see angels in the Bible, the next words are fear not or get up.
- [26:54]
Jonathan Pacluda
Right? Which is why I know so if you're faced with one of those, it's.
- [26:58]
Candace Cameron Bure
So when you, when you're talking about a fallen angel, it's like all the strength of the good being that God created that is now fallen and depraved and evil and wicked. And so they're not afraid of you. They are terrified of your God. I think about one of the most famous psalms in the the scripture is Psalm 23 and the pronouns change. It says, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores My soul. He guides me in passive righteousness for his. His name's sake. But then he goes. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will not fear, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil. So it goes from I'm talking about God. I know about God to I am now in the presence of the enemy. I am with God. I am close to the shepherd. I am protected by him. So your greatest defense against the enemy, like your greatest protection, it's not a Ouija board. It's not crystals, it's not a dream catcher. It's not something. It's not a blanket your grandmother gave you. It's not any inanimate object. It is you drawing near to the creator of the heavens and the earth. Because while they are not afraid of you, they are terrified of him. And the closer you are to him that is your greatest protection. In. In all of these things, do you.
- [28:28]
Lev Bure
Guys feel even like just acknowledging the existence of the enemy is half the battle?
- [28:34]
Jonathan Pacluda
Right?
- [28:35]
Lev Bure
Because like, how can we fight if we don't even believe that. That war exists?
- [28:38]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah. There's a story when I was, you know. You have. I had a sleepover when I was young. I had a friend stay the night. I think I was in like. I think we were like 8 years old. Okay. And so my buddy Cody stays the night and we're supposed to be asleep. You know, I don't know if you were. You're just like, all right, we're gonna stay up. And we were talking. My parents were sleeping and. And there was this closet in the guest bedroom where all the. The games we'd keep, like the board games and whatnot.
- [29:09]
Lev Bure
Sure, sure.
- [29:10]
Candace Cameron Bure
And it was just like this closet of old things, toys and whatnot. And so I went in there and he was with me, but he was. He was across the room. And I went and I opened the door to that closet. And when I looked in, I saw something that was so out of place, it was just confusing my eight year old brain. I was like, what is that? Like that shouldn't be there. And suspended, like halfway down the closet was this. What just seemed huge snake.
- [29:38]
Jonathan Pacluda
Oh, a real one or a real one?
- [29:40]
Lev Bure
Yeah, no, thank you.
- [29:43]
Jonathan Pacluda
Scary.
- [29:44]
Candace Cameron Bure
I mean, it was. And right now. So I looked at it and I'm just like 8 year old me, I'm looking at that snake and, you know, we had probably just finished watching TGIF earlier That night, you know, it's Friday night. I'm looking at that snake, and I'm like, what is that? And then it moved toward me. And when that thing moved, I mean, just ever so slightly, like, I realized it was alive. I jumped all the way back across the room, and I just go, snake, snake. There's a snake. And my dad gets up. He's on the other side of the house, and he gets up. You know, he comes storming down the house, and he open. You know, comes in that room. He's like, what are you. What are you guys doing? What are y'all doing up? You know, what are you still doing awake? And I was like, dad, there's a snake. And he goes, where? You know, we lived in the country and. Yeah, in Texas.
- [30:31]
Lev Bure
Welcome to Texas.
- [30:32]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah, exactly. Welcome to Texas. And so he goes in the closet, and all he sees is the, like the. The very tip of the tail slither off. So now it's there, guys. It's in the room.
- [30:44]
Jonathan Pacluda
It's in the room in the house.
- [30:46]
Candace Cameron Bure
And we don't know where it is. And so what he does is he starts asking me questions after his anger subsided at me for being awake. He's like, what did it look like? What was the pattern? What color was it? What was the shape of its head? And he's trying to identify the threat. What is it capable. Is it poisonous? How big was it? What is it capable of? Like, are we going to be okay? Or is it, like, burn down the house? And, like, we need to sell and, like, you know.
- [31:12]
Jonathan Pacluda
Right.
- [31:12]
Candace Cameron Bure
What. What should we do next? He's trying to understand who the enemy is and what is he capable of.
- [31:18]
Lev Bure
Right.
- [31:18]
Candace Cameron Bure
And I think that's. That's a great starting place for us. Who is the enemy? What is he capable of? Right? What, like, who. How did he get here? What can he do to us? Where do we go from here? Where does this end? You know, I think there's big theological questions born out of this of, like, why would God even allow evil? Why did God create hell? How could a good God send anybody to hell? Like, these are enormous. Yeah, questions.
- [31:51]
Lev Bure
Totally.
- [31:51]
Candace Cameron Bure
That are only answered with a right understanding of spiritual warfare, which is why I am so excited about the conversation we're having.
- [32:00]
Lev Bure
Come on.
- [32:00]
Jonathan Pacluda
Me too.
- [32:01]
Candace Cameron Bure
Come on.
- [32:02]
Jonathan Pacluda
I want to know. Will you tell us specifically what the Bible says about Satan or Lucifer? I mean, we. There's different names for him, but is it. Is. Are they different demons? Which ones are the same name for the same demon? Can you walk us through that so.
- [32:24]
Candace Cameron Bure
Typically, the devil, Satan, Lucifer is all referring to the chief demon, if you will. And that's why I find it fascinating that CS Lewis said the devils because he's, he's making this observation that Satan is just a demon. He is just a fallen angel. Well, in Ezekiel, it says that he is more beautiful, some say more powerful than others. Really interesting in the Hebrew that many scholars interpret it, that Lucifer actually had musical instruments created into his being.
- [32:58]
Lev Bure
Wow.
- [32:59]
Candace Cameron Bure
That he was the first worship leader. And some people will draw the theology out of that, that that music is a way for us to be moved away or moved closer to God.
- [33:09]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, I believe it.
- [33:11]
Candace Cameron Bure
And that's why when you're listening to something with that, that is glorifying to the enemy, it's not innocent. It is not innocent like it is, it is doing something to your heart. It is informing your beliefs. It is informing your worldview. And you're like, man, why am I doing this? Why? You know, I, I spend a lot of time with young adults, right?
- [33:32]
Lev Bure
There's, like, no neutrality.
- [33:33]
Candace Cameron Bure
There's no neutrality. That's right. There's no, there's no middle ground. You're either moving toward God or away from God. And just about everything that you listen to and everything that you're what that you watch always tell young people, your grandmother was right. It's garbage in, garbage out. You know, that's the truth. And so he's a created being. He, he rebelled. I do think there was an element of free will in the spiritual realm. So people will say, well, then can angels still sin? Can they still rebel against God? And I would say no, because of revelation. Meaning. Here's what I mean by that, is like if, if you say, touch the hot stove and I touch it and it burns me, okay? Now I'm like, oh, I felt the result, the, the side effect, the symptom, the result of, of doing that. It hurt me. Now, if you say, touch the hot stove again, I'm like, I can't. It will burn me. And you're like, no, but you can. I'm like, no, I, I, I, I can't even exercise my free will in that way, because if I touch it, I know what's going to happen. And because the result is so clear to me, I can't even bring myself to do it. Well, the angels watch the rebellion of Lucifer and they see how good God is, and they see how terrible that went for him. So with, with all of that knowledge, they're like, no, no, we know God is only Good. We. We know that goodness is found in him. We know how. How generous and compassionate and benevolent and. And kind and generous he is. We would never want to go anywhere else. And that in that right there is a right. The right life of the Christian to understand that God is so good and he's so kind and he's so generous and he's so gracious, he's slow, so slow to anger and so abounding in love that we're like, I don't want to go anywhere else.
- [35:28]
Lev Bure
Right.
- [35:29]
Candace Cameron Bure
I want to stay in his care. I want to stay in his presence. There's nowhere else I want to be. And so sin is really just. It's really just an action born of doubt. It's like, I don't know that I trust God. I think maybe if I do this, it might be good. The. The pleasure might be worth it.
- [35:46]
Lev Bure
Sure.
- [35:47]
Candace Cameron Bure
And. And so as we grow in our knowledge of who God is, in his character, we sin less. We may not be sinless, but we sin less. And so Satan is here, and he's just trying to tempt us away from the goodness of God because he's evil and he's wicked. Right. That's what he does. And. And I would just say, as you talk about, like, Ouija boards and. And music that doesn't glorify God, they receive it as worship. Like, we don't have to have a seance or a pentagram or candles.
- [36:15]
Lev Bure
That just hits.
- [36:16]
Jonathan Pacluda
So I know that hits hard.
- [36:17]
Candace Cameron Bure
Like, they, like, demons receive that as worship.
- [36:21]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah.
- [36:21]
Candace Cameron Bure
Like, they don't. They don't really want you to, like, drink blood and stuff because it's. It's like, that's just gonna weird people out. And if they. They do that as you're like, they. They'll receive that as, like, almost like they're making fun of you. Like, how. How foolish do you have to be? But when you just listen to music or watch something that doesn't glorify God, they receive that as worship.
- [36:43]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah.
- [36:44]
Candace Cameron Bure
Wow.
- [36:45]
Jonathan Pacluda
It's powerfully convicting when you hear those words. I think a lot of us know that when they're like, yeah, guard your eyes, guard your heart, guard your ears. But when you're holding it up against. This is the reason why we do that.
- [36:58]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
- [36:58]
Jonathan Pacluda
Not. Not only to honor God.
- [37:01]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
- [37:01]
Jonathan Pacluda
But it's protection from the enemy.
- [37:04]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Jonathan Pacluda
That. That just convicts in a whole different way.
- [37:07]
Candace Cameron Bure
That's right.
- [37:07]
Jonathan Pacluda
Guys, I'm. You want to say something? Because I'm just like. I'm just excited about this season. We have so much to talk about.
- [37:14]
Lev Bure
We do. We had a lot.
- [37:15]
Jonathan Pacluda
And we're. We're gonna come back. We're gonna come back next week.
- [37:19]
Candace Cameron Bure
Come on.
- [37:19]
Jonathan Pacluda
With a whole nother topic. Let's go. I mean, still talking about spiritual warfare, but on our podcast, we answer a listener question every week, and everyone writes in. So a lot of these questions, they might be from the previous season.
- [37:34]
Candace Cameron Bure
Yeah.
- [37:35]
Jonathan Pacluda
But I love this. Our audience is super engaged. Thanks to everyone who has written in questions. I love this part. I know you're really good, J.P. at answering questions. Do you still do your Friday nights on Instagram?
- [37:47]
Candace Cameron Bure
Friday Q and A. Yeah, I love.
- [37:48]
Jonathan Pacluda
It all throughout the day.
- [37:49]
Candace Cameron Bure
Friday. So I've. I get about 2, 000 questions every Friday on Instagram.
- [37:54]
Jonathan Pacluda
That's crazy. And how many. How many do you answer?
- [37:58]
Candace Cameron Bure
Somewhere around a hundred.
- [38:00]
Jonathan Pacluda
And I read a lot of them because it, You're. It's. They're so insightful. They're really great questions. And then your answers are solid. So I, I learned. I love.
- [38:10]
Candace Cameron Bure
There's an anonymity to it. And so people. It's like, ask about.
- [38:16]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, we get some of those questions too. And people will say. Because we. They do write in. And so we see the email, you know, please don't mention my name. But we, we try to just, you know, answer questions that. Well, questions that I can answer because I'm not a biblical scholar, but. So let's go to our listener question today. This is from Gambino.
- [38:42]
Candace Cameron Bure
Let's go.
- [38:43]
Jonathan Pacluda
And the question is, I'd like to better understand evil and why it's allowed to exist among us. Man jumping in the deep questions to.
- [38:56]
Lev Bure
Tackle getting right to it.
- [38:57]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, I'm gonna let you take that one.
- [38:59]
Candace Cameron Bure
So darkness is not a thing. It's no thing. We say nothing. Light is a thing. Darkness is the absence of light. So when you remove light, what. What you're left with in the void is darkness. Cold is not a thing. It's the absence of heat. When you withdraw heat, a source of heat, like the sun or a fire, what you're left with in the void is cold. There's no source of heat. So I'm left with cold. Likewise with evil. Evil is not a thing. God did not invent evil, create evil. That. That was not the invention of God. There's nothing. There's no evil in God. The scripture tells us he's only good. But wherever you withdraw God or the goodness of God, what you're left with in the void is evil. Now, this is a fascinating apologetic because you can test it, think about where there is evil. And what you won't see around those spaces are people who are radically following Jesus. And in fact, there was a, There was a Chinese economist who was studying the success of the west, and they said, hey, we really want to understand why America has done as well as America has done, historically speaking. And they said, okay, we thought, at first we thought it was your economic system, your, Your financial system. Then we thought it was your military, your guns, your weapons. And lo and behold, what we found is it's actually your religion, Christianity. I understand that not everyone in America is Christian, but this is, and this is not my observation, it's this Chinese economist observation. But they said where Christianity thrives, the culture around it thrives. And what they found there in China is where missionaries had come in, opium had gone down, opium usage and crime rates had decreased. And it's, it's not because it's just like it turns out, oh, and the people had more money. And that sounds like prosperity gospel. That's not my heart. It just turns out when you do less opium, you have more money. And so they, it was. Was this fascinating observation that where Christianity thrives, the culture around it thrives. And that's what in your. You're like, oh, man, that. Where's that in the Bible? Well, great question. Matthew 5, let your. Where he says Matthew 5:16, let your light shine before others so they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. Right before that, he says, for you are salt, which is a preservative, and light, which pushes out darkness. And so wherever Christians are, the, the society around them is preserved and darkness is pushed out. And that's according to the words of Jesus.
- [42:00]
Jonathan Pacluda
Wow, that's so. Okay. I've never heard it put so simply because I get asked that question all the time. Well, why does God even allow evil? Yeah, but it's not that it's a thing. It's the absence of a thing of good. Yeah, it's the absence of good, which.
- [42:17]
Candace Cameron Bure
Is the absence of God. And when you pull God out of the equation, what you're left with in the void is evil. Oh, that's so good.
- [42:24]
Lev Bure
Back to the whole conversation of, you know, there's never a neutral I think is really convicting to hear, because wherever we choose to push God to the side, it's only going to be filled by one thing, and that's evil.
- [42:36]
Jonathan Pacluda
Yeah, I love that. Thank you. I'm. That's my takeaway from the episode because it's just an answer that I'm gonna think about more. I'm gonna remember those Bible verses that you said because I always want to back it up with with scripture, but it's just such an easy way to explain. I don't want to say easy. It's a the most simple explanation I've heard. As to evil. Well, that was awesome. Will you guys come back next week?
- [43:03]
Candace Cameron Bure
Let's do it.
- [43:05]
Jonathan Pacluda
Okay.
- [43:05]
Candace Cameron Bure
I'm pumped.
- [43:07]
Jonathan Pacluda
We have a free resource for you this season, and and we're calling it the no Fear Guide. This topic is one that is scary for some people, but it doesn't have to be. Go to Candice.com to find the link, and it's also in our show notes. Until next time, come back next week and be grateful all day, every day. Candy Rock Entertainment. All rights reserved.