CONSUMER REPORTS MOST RELIABLE BRANDS FOR 2025 w/ JENNIFER STOCKBURGER

Summary

The Carpool with Kelly and Lizz
Episode: CONSUMER REPORTS MOST RELIABLE BRANDS FOR 2025
Guest: Jennifer Stockburger, Consumer Reports
Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction and Overview

In the January 9, 2025 episode of The Carpool with Kelly and Lizz, hosts Kelly Stumpe and Lizz St. John delve into the latest findings from Consumer Reports regarding the most reliable car brands for 2025. Joined by Jennifer Stockburger from Consumer Reports, the sisters explore the methodology behind the rankings, analyze the shifts in brand performances, and discuss the implications for both new and used car buyers. The episode offers valuable insights for families and individuals prioritizing reliability in their vehicle choices.

Methodology of Consumer Reports' Reliability Rankings

Jennifer Stockburger begins by elucidating the robust methodology Consumer Reports employs to assess vehicle reliability. She explains that the rankings are derived from comprehensive surveys of over five million Consumer Reports members, encompassing feedback on more than 300,000 vehicles spanning both new and used models.

Jennifer Stockburger [08:29]: "We reach out to our members with detailed surveys asking about the problems they've encountered with their cars over the past 12 months. This data has been collected consistently since 2000, providing a robust foundation for our reliability scores."

The process involves comparing each vehicle to others of the same model year, focusing on problem rates and how they stack up against peers. This approach ensures that natural wear and tear associated with aging are accounted for, highlighting genuine reliability issues beyond expected maintenance concerns.

Jennifer Stockburger [09:55]: "We take a vehicle and compare it to others of the same model year to determine its problem rate and how it stands relative to its peers. This isolates out-of-the-ordinary issues that may affect reliability."

Top 10 Most Reliable Car Brands for 2025

The discussion transitions to the unveiling of the top 10 most reliable car brands for 2025. The list surprises many by positioning Subaru at the pinnacle, displacing traditional leaders like Toyota and Lexus.

Kelly [11:34]: "Number one was Subaru."

The complete ranking is as follows:

1. Subaru
2. BMW
3. Lexus
4. Porsche
5. Honda
6. Audi
7. Kia
8. Hyundai
9. Toyota
10. Infiniti

Analysis of Brand Performances

Lizz and Jennifer engage in a nuanced analysis of the rankings, particularly focusing on Subaru's ascent to the top spot.

Jennifer Stockburger [12:39]: "Subaru is new to that top position in terms of reliability. They displaced the venerable Toyota Lexus, which you always expect to be the most reliable."

Lizz elaborates on the evolving perceptions of brands like Kia and Hyundai, noting their improved reliability despite lingering reputations from earlier years plagued by recalls and other issues.

Lizz [13:17]: "I always get asked about Kia and Hyundai reliability. I think they had some bad PR, but their reliability record has far improved."

The conversation highlights how Consumer Reports' data reflects not just current performances but also longstanding brand reliability, comparing it to academic GPA metrics where early setbacks can have prolonged reputational impacts.

Jennifer Stockburger [14:20]: "It's like a GPA. Early issues with Kia and Hyundai have had lasting effects on their reputation, even though their reliability has significantly improved."

Reliability of Used Cars vs. New Cars

A significant portion of the episode addresses the reliability of used versus new cars. The hosts and Jennifer discuss the benefits of purchasing used vehicles, especially from brands with robust reliability histories.

Lizz [30:21]: "Any vehicle is a better financial decision used because you've wiped away all that depreciation. It's less to insure, it's everything."

Jennifer concurs, emphasizing that buying used cars from reliable brands can be a more prudent financial decision, offering proven reliability backed by extensive Consumer Reports data.

Jennifer Stockburger [26:46]: "We're advocates of buying used. It often makes financial sense and provides access to reliable vehicles that have a proven track record."

Electric Vehicles (EVs) and Plug-in Hybrids (PHEVs) Reliability Data

The episode also explores the reliability trends of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), highlighting improvements and ongoing challenges.

Jennifer Stockburger [22:57]: "EVs now have 42% more problems than internal combustion cars, down from 79% last year. PHEVs have 70% more problems, down from 146%."

Despite progress, EVs and PHEVs still face higher problem rates compared to traditional internal combustion engine vehicles, though the gap is narrowing. Notably, traditional hybrid vehicles without plug-in capabilities have achieved parity with internal combustion vehicles in terms of reliability.

Jennifer Stockburger [23:58]: "Hybrid vehicles are now on par with internal combustion engine vehicles in reliability. There's no hesitancy about buying a regular hybrid."

Advice for Used Car Shopping

Jennifer provides practical advice for listeners navigating the used car market, emphasizing the importance of brand reliability, budget considerations, and prioritizing safety features.

Jennifer Stockburger [27:49]: "Set your price point. If you can't find a vehicle from the most reliable brands within your budget, consider slightly lower tiers like Mazda, Buick, or Nissan that still offer reliability."

She also advises focusing on safety, especially given the challenges faced during the pandemic, which affected the availability of safety features in models produced between 2020 and 2021.

Jennifer Stockburger [28:28]: "When shopping used, prioritize safety features. Manufacturers struggled during the pandemic to include the latest safety tech, so you might need to look harder for those features in older models."

Consumer Reports Platform and Membership Benefits

The conversation shifts to the value of Consumer Reports membership, detailing the extensive resources available to members beyond vehicle reliability, including ratings for home appliances, electronics, child car seats, and more.

Jennifer Stockburger [31:07]: "Members receive full access to ratings across almost all areas, including home safety, electronics, and appliances. We test everything rigorously to provide unbiased, comprehensive reviews."

Lizz shares her own positive experiences using Consumer Reports to make informed decisions, particularly highlighting the platform's superiority over typical online reviews due to its focus on long-term reliability and unbiased testing.

Lizz [33:20]: "Consumer Reports puts an emphasis on reliability that typical online reviews lack. It's invaluable for making informed purchasing decisions."

Additionally, listeners are offered a discount on Consumer Reports memberships through a special URL provided by Lizz.

Lizz [33:20]: "You can use cr.org/thecarmom to get a discount on your Consumer Reports membership."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Kelly and Lizz reiterate the importance of leveraging trusted resources like Consumer Reports for making informed vehicle and product decisions. They express gratitude to Jennifer Stockburger for her insights and encourage listeners to prioritize reliability and safety in their purchases.

Kelly [34:07]: "Thank you for listening to the Carpool Podcast with Kelly and Liz. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jennifer Stockburger [08:29]: "We reach out to our members with detailed surveys asking about the problems they've encountered with their cars over the past 12 months."

• Liz [09:55]: "Consumer Reports does such a good job. Every year they come out with this new reliability data."

• Jennifer Stockburger [12:39]: "Subaru is new to that top position in terms of reliability. They displaced the venerable Toyota Lexus."

• Lizz [13:17]: "I think Kia and Hyundai had some bad PR, but their reliability record has far improved."

• Jennifer Stockburger [22:57]: "EVs now have 42% more problems than internal combustion cars, down from 79% last year."

• Jennifer Stockburger [26:46]: "We're advocates of buying used. It often makes financial sense."

• Jennifer Stockburger [31:07]: "Members receive full access to ratings across almost all areas, including home safety, electronics, and appliances."

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This episode of The Carpool with Kelly and Lizz serves as an essential guide for consumers navigating the complex landscape of vehicle reliability, offering expert insights and actionable advice backed by Consumer Reports' extensive research. Whether you're in the market for a new or used car, understanding these rankings and methodologies can significantly impact your purchasing decisions, ensuring you invest in a vehicle that meets your reliability and safety standards.

Transcript

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[Kelly]

Welcome to the Carpool podcast with Kelly.

[Liz]

And then they're like, hey, we compared, bought them ourselves, ran these tests. This is the best food processor. And just the guesswork's out of it. They're the original. They're the appliance influencer that I've always said that needed to exist. That's what they are.

[Kelly]

And Liz, God is bigger than the book.

[Guest]

No veg. How's the song go?

[Liz]

Veg tails.

[Guest]

Veggies, Veggie tails.

[Kelly]

Your mom, time off start.

[Liz]

Welcome back to the Carpool podcast with Kelly and Liz. And boy, do we have a show for you. What's that from?

[Guest]

What is that from? And boy, do we have a show for you.

[Liz]

And boy do.

[Guest]

Then it starts with a song show for you.

[Liz]

Veggie Tales.

[Advertiser]

Huh?

[Guest]

God is bigger than the book. No veg. How's the song go?

[Liz]

Veg, veggie.

[Guest]

Veggie tails.

[Liz]

Veggie tails. Broccoli Celery. Stop. Veggie tails. Liz, stop. That's our new intro. And boy, do we have.

[Guest]

We have a show for you. For you. That's. It's got to be copyrighted.

[Liz]

Well, we'll stop when they come first.

[Guest]

Girls, do we have a show for you.

[Liz]

Cute. Cute.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Liz]

Shout out.

[Guest]

Shout out. Veggie tales. Shout outs. Shout out. Catholic school.

[Liz]

Today's show is a little bit of banter, but it's a. Mainly meat and potatoes. It's little veggies. Wow. Mainly meat and potatoes because we have a Consumer Reports interview. And before you roll your eyes and say Consumer Reports, stop. If you care about vehicle reliability, which I'm sure you do, and if you care about the hot gossip surrounding vehicle reliability, you know, your girls got the juice. Leave it to us. To make a Consumer Reports podcast. Such an interesting conversation because they.

[Guest]

Not really leave it to us because, like, honestly, whatever Consumer Reports is putting out is like, it's.

[Liz]

It is.

[Guest]

You can't argue that it's interesting.

[Liz]

I always get Asked about.

[Guest]

Interesting.

[Liz]

I always get asked about vehicle reliability, and I think such. And no offense if you do this, but stop doing it. I think such an irresponsible approach to take is like, oh, well, like, take. Take one lived experience and, like, make that your decision. Like, well, my mom had a Tahoe in the 90s and she had to replace her transmission, so I'll never do it. I hear those on my consultations every single week. And I get, like. I get lived experiences. I'm not saying it's not important, but, like, if that's like, your definite, you are. You could just be completely choosing wrong. Consumer Reports does such a good job. Every year they come out with this new reliability data, but they. They reach out and they survey thousands of people, thousands of people to hear about their car's reliability issues, if they've had any. They also look at things like owner satisfaction, which I found super interesting. And one of the examples Jen gave us was, you know, the Jeep Wrangler. It doesn't score very well on any stretch of the imagination. Doesn't drive very well. It's not very reliable. But the owner satisfaction is so high because, you know, it's a Jeep thing.

[Guest]

It's a deep thing.

[Liz]

So just like, really interesting takeaways like that. But we broke down like, there was tea. There are some brands that Consumer Reports doesn't recommend a single car on their list. That was kind of crazy to hear those, like, some big names. Big names justice for Hyundai and Kia, Toyota. Did. Did they do as good as you think they did? Stay tuned to find out.

[Guest]

It's very. It's very interesting. It's not what you would have thought. Definitely worth listening to this. When we recorded this, it was that same day that we lost all of my audio. So I actually don't know if any of my audio was captured on this, but Kelly ran most of the interview, so you don't hear me. That is what.

[Liz]

Oh, yeah. We never talked about, like, the fact that I just, like, did a solo episode.

[Guest]

It was really good.

[Liz]

Thanks. I didn't like it. I could do a solo episode if your mic was just turned off and you just, like, nodded your head or, like, gave me, like, you need, like, the validation. Just need, like, a little. I mean, there is. There is just no one giving me feedback about anything.

[Guest]

Yeah. It must be kind of weird.

[Liz]

It was kind of weird. But anyway, that's what that's all about, today's episode. So we're going to be talking to Consumer Reports. We also. Oh, I have a Personal experience with Consumer Reports since we had recorded. I needed a new food processor. I logged into my Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports. And I bought the highest rated food processor. Done. Because here's the thing about Consumer Reports. We're all so up to the Amazon reviews, which is fine. I think it's good to read reviews. But they're reviewing a product. They're not comparing it to other products.

[Guest]

Right.

[Liz]

Consumer reports bought like 30 food processors. Because they're crazy.

[Guest]

They're comparing it out. It's, it's, it's such a wealth of knowledge.

[Liz]

And then they're like, hey, we compared, bought them ourselves, ran these tests. This is the best food processor. And just the guessworks out of it. They're the original. They're the appliance influencer that I've always said that needed to exist.

[Jen]

Totally.

[Liz]

That's what they are.

[Guest]

Totally.

[Liz]

I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I need bucket list. Bingo. Card item. I want to go to the ihs and I want to go to Consumer Reports headquarters.

[Guest]

Same. It would be such a fun job.

[Liz]

I know. It would be a fun job.

[Guest]

Just, like, do all these tests, little experiments. Little experiments that don't require, like, actual science knowledge.

[Liz]

Totally.

[Guest]

You know.

[Liz]

Well, I'm sure they inquire, actually. I'm sure it's so much science knowledge.

[Guest]

Well, there's like the scientific method of it all, but it's like, well, which food processor is going to work the best? Not, you know, Y equals MC squared.

[Liz]

No, I think it's a little bit like, if we put a Y and then MC squared, does it get processed in the food processor? I think there's more to it.

[Guest]

Really?

[Liz]

Because. Okay, but like, so a food process food processor is an easy one. But if they were like, hey, what test are we going to run to figure out which paper towel is the best? Like, you have to come up with that test.

[Guest]

No, I know, but it's not like working with, like, chemicals and like, biology and like, you know, that kind of science. You know what I mean?

[Liz]

Yeah. We just need women in stem. And I think Consumer Reports are doing that because we had Jen on the podcast.

[Guest]

Love Jen. The original John. Not to be confused with Jen. From all of our advice questions.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Do.

[Liz]

You have anything else you want to say? Let me think. It's Thursday. We have things coming up. Exciting, secret projects still in the works. I think I'm good. I think we just need to give the people what they want.

[Guest]

Yeah, let's do it. So without further ado, let's get into our interview. With Consumer Reports.

[Liz]

Jen Stockburger from Consumer Reports. Welcome back to the Carpool podcast.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Thank you. It's glad I'm happy to be back.

[Liz]

Oh, this is always. I love chatting with Consumer Reports. I mean really, I stand by the fact that Consumer Reports is my favorite Instagram follow. You guys are always up to the funniest little things. And the tests are so creative. I love it. We wanted to have Jen on because you guys just came out with your new data on reliability.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Right.

[Liz]

Which is a very hot button issue for my audience, especially when, especially because a lot of my audience is in the used car market. And obviously for a family car, good reliability is high priority. So Jen, can you just walk us through how Consumer Reports tests for this reliability and just maybe a little overview of what the process is like?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Right. So unlike some of what you said, the new and fun tests we do, this is a tried and true element that makes up the overall scores of all of Consumer Reports cars. We've been doing it for year over year over year for decades really. And what it is is a survey of CR's members, of which there are 5 million, where we are reaching out to them in a pretty detailed survey, which they're really good about answering and saying what are the problems you had with your car over the past 12 months? And that data goes back to the year 2000. So it's a really robust survey of both new and used cars. And we get responses that provide reliability ability Data on over 300,000 vehicles. So it's, you know, in the survey world, it's super robust. And what the methodology is, is you take a vehicle and you compare it to the other vehicles of that same model year and determine what its problem rate is and how it compares to its peers. And that's where the reliability score comes from. So you expect cars to get less reliable as they age. They're only compared to the same model year. So things like brakes and things like that that you would expect shouldn't hurt it, but out of the ordinary stuff will that may be problem causing.

[Liz]

It's so interesting when I, when people, I think, you know, everyone says they want a really reliable car and whether they're in the used car market or a lot of the times the new car market. It is a really difficult question for like your basic car reviewer to answer or for, for anyone to really answer because it's there, there's good and bad eggs in every batch. So I love the idea of Consumer Reports surveying real people in these real life scenarios and hearing about their problems. And it feels really good to know that you're comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Correct.

[Liz]

You know, so do you feel like the data gets clearer every year? So if you're like someone who knows they won a 2007 around 2017, 2018, is it a fair assessment to say, like the data that from this survey is even more detailed than this data from the last survey?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. And sometimes it's the same car, sometimes it's the same people who are just surveying the same car. And so we get to see not just a snapshot of what's happening for these People's vehicles in 2024, but how they have changed over time, how has a vehicle or model aged. And that all comes out in that survey. And the analysis goes, goes very, very deep.

[Liz]

And the survey is very interesting because you guys break it down by manufacturer. But then you also warn that it's important to not just look at manufacturer, but look at the specific models within the manufacturers, because again, every manufacturer has some good and bad eggs is. Can I read the top 10 brands?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Sure.

[Liz]

So the top 10 brands in order. First one really surprised me.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah.

[Liz]

And I'm curious was. Well, I'll read it first and then I'll ask my question. Number one was Subaru.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yep.

[Liz]

Number two, BMW. Number three, Lexus. Porsche, Honda, Audi, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota Infiniti.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Correct.

[Liz]

How much different was this than the previous year?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

So there has been some moving, certainly within that group. Subaru is new to that top position in terms of reliability. They displaced the venerable Toyota Lexus, which you always expect to be the most reliable. But this year, Subaru took that top spot away from them. So certainly you see trends of the Japanese in there, but you do see now a mix. And that ranking you shared is the overall score. So that's everything. Performance and reliability combined in that overall score ranking.

[Liz]

So interesting. I mean, this, this list I find fascinating one, because as someone who reviews a lot of family cars, and I'm, I'm, I'm personally a very big fan of the Telluride and the Palisade. I always get asked, oh, but Kia and Hyundai reliability. And I wonder why they have that reputation, because I don't find that. I think that they maybe had some bad pr. You know, a couple of bad recalls like they, you know, they, they were. And there's the, the, there was the perception that they were easy to steal, even though, of course, that was only on certain model years. But it's just so interesting to see them ranked higher than Toyota again. In overall scores.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Right.

[Liz]

But them still have that reputation. I think it just kind of shows how long it takes for the consumer appetite for these cars to kind of flip like Toyota and Honda and Lexus will always be the most reliable cars. And people will not always, but have been for a very long time. The most reliable cars.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. And I think it's, you know what, I compare it to a gpa. Do you ever get where you had your GPA and you got one bad grade and your GPA dropped and then it took. Seemed like it took forever to get it to come back up to a level you were happy with? I feel like that's what's happened with Kia and Hyundai. They had early in their, you know, bringing cars to the U.S. they had some real issues and whether they have corrected it, which clearly they have. The reputation of those early years still remains so that people like you, there's many go, ah, Kia, Hyundai, do I really want to do that? And their cars are amazing. And I agree with you as is their reliability record far improved.

[Liz]

And now when we look at just this is. Was an interesting list. Which brands make the best used cars. Looking at cars that are 5 to 10 years old based on predicted reliability, I'm going to read those five brands and I think this is more what people would probably guess.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

This is definitely. If you're in the used market, this is the list you want to pay attention to. Right.

[Liz]

Lexus, Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Acura.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yep.

[Liz]

And this is so unsurprising because one, Lexus and Toyota are the same company and Honda and Acura are the same company. And then, you know, cute little Mazda, you know, right there too. That's it. That's a, that's a predictable list. It's interesting. Lexus number one for best used cars and they were number two for overall. So Lexus is like kind of having a moment.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. There's a combination of the performance, the reliability and the third element that's in there is owner satisfaction. So people that buy Lexus own love Lexus. Whereas you see in other brands, while their performance is really good and their reliability is okay, their owner satisfaction might be, might not be up to snuff. So it's that kind of triple, triple threat that you get in the Lexus vehicles that makes it talk about.

[Liz]

I think that's a really important factor though. And I'm so happy that you guys asked that question because don't you ask the question in the survey, would you purchase again?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

That's really where the owner satisfaction comes. It's a simple given all all things considered, would you buy this car again? Yes or no? And that's where the owner says, I.

[Liz]

Love that it's such because you know, agreed. It can look great. You can like it. You can say no, yeah, I like the car. It's fine. But like, so would you do it again? That's such a power. That's such a powerful statement.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yep.

[Jen]

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[Liz]

Okay, so now let's maybe talk about someone that didn't some of the cars that didn't perform as well or some of the brands. Yeah, so there are seven brands that don't have a single model recommendation from Consumer Reports.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. And you know, unfortunately many of those are some of the domestic brands.

[Liz]

Well, and that's, yeah, that's interesting.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

And I think what we've determined is it's their, the company's different levels of risk. So when you look at the seven you just rattled off the Mazdas, the Subarus, the Toyota, the Lexus, the, the Acuras, the Hondas of the worlds, they tend to iterate more slowly. So again I go take a Subaru that's best in overall and best reliability. This year you get a 10 year old Subaru, you're not looking at a car that's drastically different than the Subaru of today. They've taken iterative, they've added safety, no question, they've added performance. We've seen powertrains go to, you know, turbocharged four cylinders versus V6s, we've seen all that. But Subaru, same flat four, you know, powertrain that they've had for years. When you look at some of the domestics, they've had one, a lot of new models introduced and they've made much more drastic changes with things like new powertrains, electric vehicles, bigger jumps in how they've introduced new product, which is riskier and it shows up in that reliability. One of, you know, the least reliable vehicle in the whole survey was the Ford F150 Lightning. This is Ford's kind of jump into that EV truck space and it didn't do very well. It didn't do very well over its early years.

[Liz]

So I want to read the seven, the seven brands that don't have a model recommendation, if that's okay. And is this list, this list also is overall okay?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah, go ahead. Yep.

[Liz]

This would be overall, we have Lincoln, Ouch. Alfa Romeo, Dodge, gmc. Ouch. Land Rover, Rivian and Jeep.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yep.

[Liz]

Mixed bag.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah, mixed bag.

[Liz]

But I see I, I love what you said. I mean especially if you look at like the Jeep lineup, like what are they doing? Like they had these off roading like cute little Wranglers and then they're like, you know what? We want to compete with an Escalade, like why? No one was asking you to do that. Why'd you come out with a Grand Wagoneer? It's crazy.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

And you talk about, you know, you mentioned the balance for consumers. I really want this car, you know, and a Jeep Wrangler is one of those. If you look at the individual, you know, overall score for a wrangler, the reliability is not great. As you just said, the performance in our tests, not great. Owner Satisfaction is one of the highest among all vehicles. People love their Jeeps and it's about that risk tolerance again they're willing to put up with. Maybe it's noisy because it's got a soft top. Maybe I have to go to the dealer a few times, but boy, when I'm driving the beach in the summer, gosh, I love that Jeep. And it's about so you. I think we feel like we give the tools to at least make that decision. You know what you're up against when you're going to buy a Jeep, but you love it anyway type of decision.

[Liz]

Okay, so we know that even with high brand ranking, high brand ranking, there are some specific models that maybe don't perform as well as the rest of the brand. Can you give us an example of a brand that scored really well with a model that underperformed in the survey?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. So I think the best example of this this year was Mazda. So I often say Mazda is kind of that unsung Japanese brand. Like you ask someone most reliable cars and they're going to tell you Honda, they're going to tell you Lexus, Toyota. Mazda has perennially been up there. It's number six in terms of reliability ranking. But their introduction of the Mazda CX this year was not a great launch. They were. Well, that model in particular was well below the average in terms of reliability and it was a lot of areas, transmission, steering and suspension, electronics, particularly in the pH, the plug in hybrid. It had battery issues, but Even the regular CX90 internal combustion vehicle was below average. Every other model for Mazda has above average predicted reliability. So it's like you say you can't.

[Liz]

That's interesting.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Can't necessarily say all Mazdas are great without doing a little bit more homework. And it really speaks to that. Be hesitant of the brand new model, give it a little time to work out its kinks. Do I have any doubt that three years from now that CX90 will be a reliable vehicle? Nope, I'm sure it will because Mazda will address the issues.

[Liz]

So. Interesting. Okay Jen, let's move to something that was excited about this year and that is all the EV and PHEV data that you guys were able to collect. So EV electric vehicle, PHEV, plug in hybrid, electric vehicle. Can you tell us what the conclusions were?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. So what again we're seeing. Absolutely. As more of them have hit the market and there was a lot of new ones that the gap between again we're making comparisons to the age old internal combustion engine that both EVs and plug in electric hybrid vehicles have closed that gap in a good way. So still EVs now have 42% more problems than an internal combustion car in the latest survey. But that was down from 79% more problems in last year's survey. And plug in hybrids have 70% more problems than internal combustion, but that was down from 146% last year. And you gotta remember that for both of those, that the number of problem areas, particularly for the plugins, it's got all of the issues of electric and all of the issues of internal combustion combined.

[Liz]

There's two things that could go wrong.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. And the really kind of big news this year was that the hybrid vehicles, not any plug in functionality, but hybrid vehicles are now considered really on par with internal combustion engine vehicles. So don't have any hesitancy about buying a regular hybrid. Their problem rates are just as good as the internal combustion cars.

[Liz]

And it's interesting also because you know, there's, there's the balance of being, you know, buying for thinking about buying new versus buying used. And let's say, you know, like a P have just checks your box like it's what you want in a vehicle. You could make the argument that it would actually be better to buy a new PE have since the used ones have such poor reliability because of their ratings. Now I get a little confused and I think a lot of people do on what predicted on because when you scroll Consumer Reports, which we'll talk about the platform in a little bit, there is a predicted reliability score for newer cars. Can you speak to how that score gets calculated?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. So it's a number of factors. So the first is just what you just said. What has the reliability history over the last three years for that vehicle model been? That's one element. So again, does a car, a new car, get a little bit tarnished by its history? If it didn't perform very well in its early years, the answer is yes. The second piece is the brand in general. We may be much more willing to give a better predicted reliability score to a new Toyota than we would to a new Ford, for example. That's just going to happen because on average Toyota makes reliable brands. The other element is how much of its components does it share with another vehicle where we do have more data, for example. So, you know, if a powertrain is the same, again, I'll use the Subaru example. A lot of their vehicles have the same flat four boxer, you know, engine. If a brand new Subaru is still coming through with that same Similar powertrain. And we know it's been tried and true. We may also give the benefit of the doubt to the new vehicle. So there's multiple components. We have an entire statistics team which takes all those elements and crunches those numbers to come up with that predicted reliability score.

[Liz]

I love it. Okay. I get a lot of questions for moms and families looking for used cars and they of course have concerns about reliability. So what are some ways that. Or what's some advice for used car shopping?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Well, again, we love that you come to us. That's the first advice. Come to us Consumer Reports, see what's there. But I think it's similar. Look at the brand first. Now it kind of works against your budget a little bit because you're certainly going to see higher resale, higher used car pricing on the traditionally reliable brands. You're going to see a used Toyota cost more than say a used, even a Mazda. But to me, that's the best shopping is if your budget is limited, which most of ours are, set your price point. And if you can't find that, you can't afford the vehicle you need from the most reliable brand. Come down a peg. Look at the Mazda, look at the ones that might be slightly lower, but look at a Buick, look at a Nissan for example, that are still reliable cars, just maybe not in that top tier.

[Liz]

Or would you also give the advice, go down a year, go down some trim levels. Oh, absolutely, yeah. To keep that. It's because it's kind of the balance of. Okay, you know, I'm looking for. I. Because I feel like a lot of my audience who's in the used car market, you know, they, they want a four year old car. Like everyone's kind of after the 2000s right now. Yep. Now the problem with that, as you know, 20, 20, 2021, there was some major inventory issues in the car market. There were, it was during the pandemic there was chip shortages which basically meant not as many cars could get built. And on top of that, Jen, the cars that did get built might be missing some safety features.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Right. So that was. You walked right into what I was gonna say is when you're shopping used, we are always advocates of buy as much safety as you can afford. Unfortunately, that means the newer you get, probably the more safety features you get. But that is what we certainly during the pandemic is even manufacturers that had committed to adding the latest and greatest in terms of say accident avoidance features like automatic emergency braking or blind spot warning, they could not get the supply chain to support that move in the 2020s and the 2021vehicles. So that's what you may miss or you have to do a little more work. Whereas maybe on some vehicles that it was standard equipment on those years you might have seen it as optional. So you may have to shop a little harder for either a trim or actively look for those features to get those safety features in even the three and four year old cars.

[Liz]

I think it's really important when you're used car shopping to just know you've got to have, you have to have access to the right resources to make a good decision. I always make the joke that there's no used car factory. So like I know you want a wide on tan 2018 Honda Odyssey Elite, but, but with under 60,000 miles for $25,000, unfortunately you can't hit add to cart on that one. So let's prioritize what we want and let's be smart about making sure you know, we're getting most bang for your buck. Most reliable car. I also always tell people who are really big on reliability, I'm like, well then let's buy a used car because used cars are going. I mean if you had to guess like used cars have proven reliability. We can look at the Carfax or the auto check, we can see what issues the car has had. We can have more robust consumer report data because there's been more reportings on it. So if reliability is your number one factor, I would not buy new. Do you think that's a fair statement?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah, well, I would buy new on a, on a tried and true brand that has, say it's three or four years into its latest redesign. I would be more comfortable. Yeah, yeah, but you're, I mean truly any vehicle is a better financial decision used because you, you've wiped away all that depreciation, etc. It's less to insure, it's less. You know, it's everything.

[Liz]

Right.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

The whole thing bundles up into a far better financial decision to buy used.

[Liz]

Well, before we let you go, I would like to maybe just kind of talk through the Consumer Report platform. You guys have been so generous to offer a little discount code to the carpool listeners. But I want to know, you know, when they become consumer report members, what does the platform look like and what are they really getting?

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah, so what you're getting beyond cars. I mean, cars is obviously a very successful element of Consumer Reports because it's a big ticket item, but you are getting full access to ratings in almost all areas, home safety areas, electronics, big appliances. Pretty big investments for some of the washers, dryers, refrigerators. We've seen so many people, even during and post pandemic redoing their homes, saying, hey, we're just gonna stay here and make this place better. Child seats. Child car seats. We do an extensive ratings program of child car seats. So, yes, it's really unlocking a great shopping resource that we don't say this enough, that is unbiased. We are buying everything, including cars, at retail, just as consumers would. We are testing them through very rigorous comparative protocols so that they're all seeing the same tests. And that's where those scores come from. And then many of the products now have reliability data, not just cars rolled into the overall scores. Appliances, electronics, all have some reliability element built into their overall scores as well.

[Liz]

Yeah, I, I think it's so important to look at the Consumer Reports data because it's so much different than just like your typical online reviews. Because when someone's reviewing something, I think it's very easy to review things like, oh, yeah, like, I like this washer dryer. Like, what's easy to set up? Okay, well, that doesn't tell us really that much, like, how long is it going to last for? Because no one's. Very few people are coming back and then updating their review four years later. But with you guys, like, putting this emphasis on reliability for cars and other products, I think it's invaluable information. So if you want to become a Consumer Reports member, like I said, we're. I'm a Consumer Reports member. I've been 14 years. Like, I love it. You can use. You can go to the URL. Oh, shit. I just had it. It's cr.org the Car mom. Cr.org the Car mom to get to the discount page. So wonderful.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

And we thank you.

[Liz]

Oh, Jen, we thank you. This is always, like, such, such a fun episode. So much to think about.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

So much to think about. Big money. Big money.

[Liz]

Well, we always joke, Elizabeth and I, that, you know, there's car influencers, of course, but, like, we need appliance influencers because I was. I was in the market for a new washer dryer. And it's like, I don't know, like, how do you know? Like, there's just all these names and these brands, and I don't really think anyone does a great job of like, marketing or reviewing them. So sure enough, was able to go to Consumer Reports just to, like, get an accurate look at so many of the different options.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Yeah. Perfect.

[Liz]

Yep. I love it. Okay, Jen, well, thank you so much for joining to the Carpool Podcast, and we will talk to everyone else later.

[Consumer Reports Representative]

Thank you. Talk soon.

[Liz]

See ya.

[Kelly]

Thank you for listening to the Carpool Podcast with Kelly and Liz. Make sure you're subscribed. Subscribed. So you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed riding with us, tell everybody you know there's room in the car for everyone.