THE CARPOOL BOOK CLUB - YESTERYEAR

Summary

---

The Carpool with Kelly and Lizz

Episode: THE CARPOOL BOOK CLUB - YESTERYEAR

Date: June 10, 2026
Hosts: Kelly Stumpe (A) and Lizz St. John (B)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Kelly and Lizz dive into their much-anticipated Book Club pick, Yesteryear, offering a lively and nuanced discussion on the novel’s plot, characters, and timely commentary on the “trad wife” influencer archetype. They also share recent personal anecdotes, discuss micro-hobbies and homemaking, and reflect on the challenges of balancing motherhood with work and major family events like the Car Mom Auto Show.

---

Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Personal & Family Updates

[00:03-06:04]

• Kelly and Lizz share their current stress around preparations for the upcoming Auto Show.
• Kelly discusses the struggle of trying to “do it all” as a mom and entrepreneur, particularly during big work weeks.
  • Quote: “I'm trying to do it all. And it, you know, and it's really tail as old as time.” (A, [01:46])
• Lizz reflects on logistical challenges, such as choosing whether to go home between event set-up or just stay at the venue to ease family stress.
  • Quote: “As a mom, it's almost something you have to, like, turn off... but it's not the right thing to do because I also have to, like, chill.” (B, [02:08])
• Discussion of the dynamic of working with husbands and being the “boss” in both family and work contexts.

2. Mom Micro-Hobbies & Maintaining Sanity

[06:04-10:34]

• Kelly shares her method for coping with work stress: diving into small homemaking projects (baking scones, goals for a beautifully made bed).
• Discussion on Instagram bed-making influencer, Louis Burke.
  • Quote: “I'm going to start by making it, but I am not going to rest figuratively until my bed is like unbelievable.” (A, [10:03])
• Lizz explains how a well-made bed changes her mood, especially during maternity leave.

3. Vegas Adventure & Car Event

[10:34-15:34]

• Kelly briefly recaps her whirlwind Vegas trip for a Ford Bronco off-roading event:
  • Impressed that modern cars (like 2026 Broncos) do much of the work in off-roading.
    • Quote: “The cars, like, just do everything. Like, it takes a very—it takes very little skill.” (A, [11:24])
  • Ponders activities for future mother-son trips.
  • Vegas’ vibe isn’t what it used to be: “I feel like millennials and Gen Z just, like, are not that into, like, drinking as much and, like, losing their money in Vegas.” (A, [15:16])

4. Favorite Family Events

[18:49-21:06]

• Lizz shares her experience at the St. Louis Air Show (“such a hookup from a carpool listener”), notes on accessibility for pregnant attendees, and patriotic vibes with the family.

---

Carpool Book Club: “Yesteryear”

[21:11-53:30]

General Impressions

• Kelly absolutely loved the book—“It’s a five star book for me, which is really crazy.” (A, [21:58])
• Lizz had mixed feelings—she “didn’t like the ending,” but found it “entertaining.”
  • Quote: “By the end of it, I couldn’t tell if I liked it or if I thought that was an obscene waste of my time.” (B, [22:07])

The Trad Wife Influencer Angle

• The book’s portrayal of trad wife influencers (in the vein of Ballerina Farms) was unexpected and more extreme than anticipated.
• Kelly felt some of the themes were relatable about motherhood and pressure: “It felt like a very relevant, some aspects of it, to my life.” (A, [23:12])
• Lizz found protagonist Natalie’s characterization extremely unrealistic in her motherhood (“She just didn’t like any of her kids the entire time.” B, [24:13])

Character Critiques & Relationships

• Both agree that the men, particularly Caleb, are heavily flawed.
  • Memorable Quote: “Caleb to be so unlikable, so insufferable. Like, he sucks.” (A, [29:04])
• Reflections on Natalie’s mental decline and unreliable narration.
• Discussion of how the book “hates women,” with no female character “really making it out okay.”
  • Quote: “I just want to let you guys know, like, women can be happy.” (A, [28:08])
• The fundamental disconnect between what the hosts expected vs. what the book delivered (a critique).
  • Quote: “I was excited to explore a more realistic approach to what someone like Ballerina Farms lives.” (B, [25:22])

Yesteryear Plot Twist & Themes

• Both hosts discuss their reactions to the “yesteryear” simulation twist, and whether it’s believable.
• Kelly points out the unreliable narrator aspect: “Sometimes I think we didn’t know what she said out loud and what she didn’t.” (A, [46:52])
• Lizz objects to the lack of focus on maternal attachment and child welfare: “It was the motherhood of it all that I just found—I could not relate to and I could not get past.” (B, [40:45])

Specific Characters

• Shannon (the antagonist/frenemy) is universally disliked by both hosts.
  • “I think that’s a resounding—I hate Shannon. I think Caleb is actually the worst.” (A, [52:29])
• Clementine, the daughter, is discussed in terms of whether her plot actions are believable.
• Rena and other “outside world” characters provide contrast to Natalie’s inner mindset and are viewed through her distorted perceptions.

Thematic & Structural Critiques

• Both Kelly and Lizz would have preferred a deeper exploration of:
  • How Natalie acquired her homesteading skills.
  • More realistic psychology and consequences.
  • A perspective outside of Natalie’s unreliable narration (perhaps a tell-all from Clementine).
• Debate about moments of potential abuse, whether represented adequately or believably.

Notable/Memorable Quotes & Moments

[timestamps approximate]

• On homemaking and stress relief: “I always find myself gravitating towards, like, a homemaking task in my most stressful work weeks.” (A, [06:14])
• On modern off-roading cars: “If you’re taking a 2026 Ford Bronco off-roading...the car is doing it itself.” (A, [11:24])
• On motherhood guilt/balance: “It’s one week. Calm down.” (B, [02:42])
• On Instagram culture: “Sometimes I think Instagram is, like, so much of my life, because it’s so much of my business.” (A, [33:00])
• On the book’s message to women: “Women can be Happy. Like, if that does not need to be said. Like, you have. You can be happy without...” (A, [28:57])
• On unreliable narration: “Everything she did was out of desperation. It wasn’t out of strategy or intelligence or anything she’s learned.” (B, [36:52])

---

Closing Thoughts on the Book

[53:00-55:36]

• Both agree it was a wild journey, with lots of directions for conversation, but Lizz wouldn’t call it a favorite (“I was kind of left disappointed.” B, [48:18]).
• Kelly would do another Book Club soon, but not immediately (“I would consider doing another book club book with you, but not for a while.” A, [53:37])

---

Other Books Mentioned

• Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir (next book club pick; mixed opinions)
• The Nightingale by Kristin Hannah (too depressing for them)
• The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt (Kelly disliked it)
• The appeal for future book recommendations that fit their taste.

---

Structured Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:27] – Mom/entrepreneur balance and Auto Show stress
• [06:04] – Side-hobbies and making the bed (“micro hobbies”)
• [10:34] – Quick Vegas trip & Ford Bronco off-roading recap
• [18:49] – St. Louis Air Show family recap
• [21:11] – Book Club: Yesteryear discussion begins (spoilers onward)
• [29:04] – Strong opinions on Caleb
• [38:34] – Discussion about the simulation twist and unreliable narration
• [47:06] – Natalie’s unreliable opinion of other women & motherhood disconnect
• [52:29] – Final character critiques and conclusion
• [53:41] – Future book club plans

---

Tone and Style

The episode balances deeply personal, candid reflection with playful banter. Kelly and Lizz approach serious topics (maternal mental health, influencer culture, family dynamics) with honesty, humor, and the kind of open-ended questions that are perfect for book club debates. Their tone is supportive, unfiltered, and often self-deprecating, making for an engaging and relatable listen—whether you’ve read Yesteryear or not.

---

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the carpool podcast with Kelly. Okay, I don't know how, like, you think we start a meeting, but first of all, we're all going to talk about how our weekends were, and then we're slowly going to ease into, like, talking about something and tell her, like, okay, so who did that? And Liz.

[B]

And if someone had a bad day, we're going to give her space to like, tell us what's going on in her life. And then we'll get to the. Then we'll get to the time sensitive topic.

[A]

Your mom Time off starts now. Welcome back to the carpool podcast with Kelly and Liz. And today is two, three days till the auto show.

[B]

I know. So crazy.

[A]

If you're tired of hearing about it, I'm so sorry. Cause I. I'm honestly not even tired of talking about it because I'm actually getting excited. I really haven't let myself get excited because I've been so stressed, but now I'm excited. I did already cry today.

[B]

Okay, so what was like, what about just overwhelm or. Or do you want to talk about it?

[A]

No, I mean, I'm happy. I mean, I brought it up, so I probably should just like, okay.

[B]

Just want to make sure everything's okay.

[A]

It was just like trying to get in like all these news interviews and like having to rearrange the child care for the children, and it's like, well, if I need. The problem is I just, like, live so far from the venue. So, like, once I get up to St. Louis, like, I'm kind of there. And I think I just tried to, like, spend as much time with my kids as possible this week. And like, during the auto show and like, looking back at the schedule, I should have probably just treated this like I'm out of town. And if I see you before bed, great. If I don't, I'm out of town. You know, Like, I'm trying to, like, do. I'm trying to do it all. And it, you know, and it's really tail as old as time.

[B]

I know. And that's on a mom trying to do it all. That's what I told Maddie, too. I was like, I could come home between setting up and then the VIP night, but I actually think it's better if no one assumes I'm gonna be home. Dinner. You like, it's not on me. Yeah. Like, I'm not. I. I can't be late for things. Like, I have to be at places, so we just kind of have to assume. It feels like I'm out of town. Which is. Which is, as a mom, it's almost something you have to, like, turn off. Because I'm like, well, no, but I. I could go home and I could, like, get dinner ready and I would have time to do it, but it's not the right thing to do because I also have to, like, chill and like.

[A]

Right. And like, we're gonna set up all day. Like, that's just so us. Like, we're gonna set up all day. We're gonna be exhausted. We're gonna have, like, an hour to get ready for the VIP night, and we're gonna be like, I could probably run home and, like, you know, make something for supper. It's like, order the kids pizzas. Shut up.

[B]

Leave me alone. I know. It's like, it's one week. One week. Calm down.

[A]

I know. Anyway, so, yeah, so I did have a mental breakdown. I think I will have another. Also, me and my husband are working very closely this week, which comes with its challenges.

[B]

Tyler's really spearheading a lot of the auto show this year, which has been lovely and great because it means less for us to do, but there is a level of let go that you have to give.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

And he's stressed too, because it's a real. You're both stressed.

[A]

No, because it is a stressful event. I know, it's so funny. And he's like, we just really, like, handle. We just, like, in our personal and, like, marriage life, like, we're fine. But, like, professionally, we just, like, handle things very differently.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I think it's also just like, we don't have a lot of men on our. Men on our team. Like, it's literally like a bunch of girls in Tyler. And I think sometimes we're like, okay, I don't know how, like, you think we start a meeting, but first of all, we're all going to talk about how our weekends were, and then we're slowly going to ease into, like, talking about something until I was like, okay, so who did this?

[B]

And if someone had a bad day, we're going to give her space to, like, tell us what's going on in her life. And then we'll get to the. Then we'll get to the time sensitive topics.

[A]

And that's on a team of mothers and women. And then, yeah, then you just have Tyler. He just comes in a little. A little hot and heavy sometimes. So that's okay.

[B]

There's also a level of. Level of it, I'm sure. Whereas, like, you are the boss to everyone on our team. But you don't want to feel that way to your husband. But it's also like, wait, but this is my. Like, I need to make some decisions,

[A]

and I actually don't want to be the boss. And I do trust him for most things. I trust him 100%. There's a level of it that, like, I don't want to be the boss, too.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But then some things I do want to be the boss on. He doesn't always understand what those things are, and only I know what those

[B]

things are, and you don't know what they are till they're in front of you. Okay, so there's just, like, a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot going on, and my kids have royally kicked my behind the past three days. Like, wow.

[B]

Okay, let's just make a pact now. Like, let's not. Is it better to not do the auto show when school's out, or is it better? It's worse for you. I feel like it's better for attendees.

[A]

I would like to prioritize the attendees. It's. There's nothing to do. We just had. We're just figuring it out, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And next year, it's not the big kids. It's just, like, it. It's the big kids in combination with the little kids. It's. It's the. It's the four.

[B]

It's having four kids.

[A]

But next year, Libby's gonna be so much older, and I think I'm gonna just be thriving more. Anyways, not here to complain, but, you know, it's also.

[B]

No.

[C]

Two years.

[B]

We're doing it two years from now. Kelly, at that point. I'm sorry. George is working.

[A]

I was thinking. I was like, should we, like, let the kids, like, sell drinks or something? Or, like, set up a lemonade stand? I don't know.

[B]

It just feels like another thing you have to worry about.

[A]

Who's gonna sit up with him? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And who's getting the lemonade? Like, please.

[A]

Okay, bye. We have so much to do on this episode. We have to. First of all, we. I have some things on my dump. I'm gonna have a quick recap of my surprise trip, and then we're gonna do our yesteryear recap.

[B]

So excited. We have both finished the book. Sorry, I'm yawning. And we have not discussed it at all. And I'm, like, biting my tongue every time I get on the phone with you.

[A]

Okay, so let me just get to the couple things I wanted to Cover on my dump really fast. So I am currently. You know something about me. When people are always like, what's it like to be a working mom? Or, how do you balance it all? I always. I always find myself gravitating towards, like, a homemaking task in my most stressful work weeks.

[B]

For some reason, I'm making. I'm making sourdough scones this week. Lemon raspberry.

[A]

I really want to make homemade cinnamon rolls. But I think I'm. I'm not going to do it this week. I think I'm gonna do it next week. But that's on, like, on my docket. But another kind of, like, side quest slash micro hobby that I'm really just gonna work on for the rest of the summer. I want to, one, learn how to make my bed beautifully. And two, I want to improve my bed or, like, buy more pillows or blankets. Like, I want a beautifully made bed every day. That's just, like, a way that I think I. That is a service that I'd like to provide for myself.

[B]

I saw this Instagram of this guy who's like, everyone's making their bedroom obsessed. This is how you make your bed.

[A]

No, I love him.

[B]

And by the way, pulled it down halfway with a lumbar pillow. So I started making my bed that way. And the first day I made it that way, Maddie made a com. So, like, we. Our nanny will, like, change the kids sheets or, like, do she, like, does chores for the kids. And he was like, wow, she really knows how to make a bed. I'm like, maddie, she doesn't make our bed. Like, she doesn't do chores for us. Like, she doesn't make our bed. I made this bed. And he was like, I can't believe you made this bed. But it's nice because it's. It's the easiest way I've ever made a bed before. And it's also. It looks good and also it allows your sheets to breathe, which is apparently a thing that has to happen.

[A]

What is his name? Let's. Because I want to share with you.

[B]

I have no idea what his name is.

[A]

I know. He just, like, always comes across my desk.

[B]

He just popped. He just popped up. And I didn't follow him.

[A]

Like, that's his whole shtick. Just like, making a bet.

[B]

And I had to watch it. I had to watch it one time.

[A]

Here he is. I just typed in making bed, and he came right up. Okay. His name is Louis Burke. L O, U, I B, U, R, K, E. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, like, I'm telling you, his whole account is about making beds.

[B]

No, I'm so with you, Kel. I actually feel the exact same way. I'm like, I feel like I need something new in my bedding cuz something's not 100% right.

[A]

I need, I need my bed to be such an oasis. I need it to be an oasis. I need it to be my bed. I also want it to look beautiful. Want to make it. I love having a made bed. And the problem is I don't really even bother.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

Hot. Take making my bed every day because I'm not good at it. So I'm like, it's going to look like crap regardless. So like, why would I waste. I got. Sometimes I'll pull my covers over, but I, it's just a blind spot of a skill that I have.

[B]

Yes, I agree. And there's something about, I'm just thinking about maternity leave and there's something about if I get up, make my bed to then just go lay back in my bed to rot with a baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will feel better about myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is up with that? Just something about laying in a fresh bed.

[A]

So kind of my goal is so right now I have like white sheets and I have a white duvet. I just like properly cleaned my duvet. Like I actually got bleach involved and I kind of ruined some of it, but it looks fine.

[B]

Okay, perfect.

[A]

Sorry. I'd love to add like a waffle knit or like just like another layer, but I think that's like not my summer goal. I think my, my goal for the rest of the summer is just to learn how to make amazing bed with what I have. And then I'd like to maybe introduce like I, I also want to, I want to have a changing of the guards, a changing of the seasons. Like I might even explore what a flannel sheet looks like this winter. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I just want to improve my bed making. So I'm welcoming any tips. I might get a linen spray. I might get new pillows, like kind of. I'm telling you, I, I'm going to start by making it, but I am not going to rest figuratively until my bed is like unbelievable.

[B]

Okay. That's a really good, that's a really good goal that I think is going to change a lot of your life.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of like my new micro hobby this summer side quest. Micro hobby.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Aside from that, I'm just like kind of. Oh. And then I went to Vegas for 24 hours.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was, first of all, like, I was so grateful to have yester year for both plane rides. The Vegas flight's a little far. It's about two and a half hour. Two hours and fifty minutes. That's like a long time to be on a plane.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, it's about an hour too long for a long flight. But I was happy to have yesteryear. So we got there, we drove to the. Straight to the hotel. We quickly ate lunch, then we went to the Bronco thing. It was really, really unbelievable. Like, couldn't believe they just, like, let you drive. Also, my biggest takeaway is that the cars do all the work. And, like, I don't. I mean, the cars, like, just do everything. Like, it takes a very. It takes very little skill.

[B]

That's very interesting. I know. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, now, if you are, like, if you have a, you know, 2008 Jeep Wrangler respect. But if you're taking a 20, 26 Ford Bronco off roading. I'm sorry, you. The car is doing itself. It literally has this button called trail. Trail climb or whatever, and you hit this button, and it just goes up the hill for you. Like, it was insane.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, I didn't get stuck. I didn't. Like, I just did. I mean, or I would, or I'm just talented. But I don't think it's that. I think it was, in fact, the car.

[B]

You know, it does. When I was. You were watching some of the. You were showing me some of the videos is like, they clearly trust the car enough because that. Because you could have just like, like, they. They trust the car enough to, like, let people do this. Like, that's why they're doing it 100. That's why Ford's, like, doing it.

[A]

But anyway, so they have these locations all around the country, and they invited me out to, like, do, like, a Father's Day promotion thing. But also, if you're going to any of these places, like, and you have. It's. I mean, it would be so fun for your husband. But I just kept thinking, like, oh, my gosh, I want to take my boys here when they're like, 14, I think. I think at 14, you can. They can be passengers. You have to be 19 to drive, but 14 to be a passenger. But, like, that would be such a fun. I think it's always hard. Like, what do you do with teenage boys on vacation? Like, that would be so fun. Or girls.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was. That's That's a. Cool. That's a. That's a new memory for sure.

[A]

And then we got home, we were so tired. We didn't have the fabulous dinner reserve. Well, I mean we went to the dinner reservation but like we ordered as soon as she got there, like eight quickly and left. Like it wasn't like a. Take your time.

[B]

I know you guys went like dark on social media.

[A]

We went dark. We were so tired. I was. So we went to bed at 8:45. And then the next morning we got up and I was like kind of jet lagged because it's two hours behind. So also like I got up at 4:45. Well, that's 6:45. Like I'm ready. And I could normally wake me up at 5. So like I was ready to go. And then, you know, I just like walked down to Starbucks and we hadn't gambled at all. And I'm not a big gambler, but I do like to play roulette sometimes. So I just like sat there with a coffee chick, brought me a mimosa and I just played roulette. I spent 100, I got $100 worth of chips and I was got. I walked away with $160.

[B]

So there you go. There you go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I called you that morning to just like be like. You went dark like, what's going on? And you didn't answer. But then Tyler called me and he's like, is everything okay? And I'm like. He was like, well, you called Kelly. And I told her it could have been an emergency. And I'm like, tyler, two phone calls in a row is an emergency. One phone call is just what's going on? He's like, well, she's at the. She's at the craps table. I'm like, I don't think Kelly know play crafts.

[A]

No, I don't know. I know.

[B]

He was definitely playing roulette.

[A]

And I was like, okay, I'll take this later. He's like, answer. I'm like, you can't answer phones. Like in the middle of a roulette game. Tyler.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so then he freaked out, calls her. So roulette's the one where it's like you pick black or red, odd or even. But what I like to do is I like to pick the ones where it's like, is it going to be like 11 through 19, 19 through 20, whatever. Like, it's like, it's so. So you win 2 to 1. So if you put one down, then you get Two chips.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I was really good. I'm good. Tyler's not. Because he always is, like, well, it was red last time, so this. I'm like, no, it's just on the vibes. It's just the vibe.

[B]

For sure. For sure. Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

So, yeah, I don't think you. Can you be necessarily good or you just keep just guessing? It's kind of just a guessing game. No.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's kind of just a guessing game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's fun. And it. It doesn't like. Like blackjack or, like, slots. Like, you'll just, like, throw my. Like this at least. I probably sat at that table for 45 minutes. It's like, that's a long time to only put $100 in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Vegas sucks. Like, I'm telling you. I just also. It's such a. It's also, like, so not. I feel like it's not what it once was. Because I feel like the millennials and the Gen Z just, like, are not that into, like, drinking as much and, like, losing their money in Vegas.

[B]

It's not quite as, like, fabulous. It's more, like, sad.

[A]

I know. Tyler was just like, look at all these people, like, spending their kids. Like, spending their kids inheritance.

[B]

Yeah, that is sad.

[A]

It was kind of sad. And then you just know. Like, you don't know. But the thing is, it's like you don't know who has money and who just, like, is pretending they have money. Because we were at this, like, this one couple was at the roulette table. Mind you guys, this was 8 in the morning. Like, this was an insane time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was this other couple, and they were blowing through their money. Like, she just kept handing the girl hundred dollar bills, and then she put all of her chips on them, and then she'd lose it all. Like, she was never winning. I'm like, maybe you should, like, slow down. Like, we're having. It was weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then we got home, and it's been Go, go, go, go, go. Ever since.

[C]

So today's episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'll be honest, personal finance budgeting is not my strong suit. I can't tell you how many times I have created spreadsheets to try and track all my spending, track all my budgeting, because I see people on Instagram doing it. I'm like, I want to be that organized. And I just never, ever follow through. Which is why I have been using Rocket Money for so long. Because Rocket Money tracks my spending and categorizes it and gives me updates like hey, that was a really large purchase that you just had. Are you sure this was you? Or hey, you've spent this much so far this month. That's this percentage up from the previous month. And they're just giving me good information that I need without me having to enter anything to a spreadsheet. I'm able to connect multiple bank accounts so it can track my spending through my multiple cards and it also tracks my subscriptions and can cancel my subscriptions and just gives me reports and I can receive real time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, low balances, etc. Rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. So let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join@Rocket Money.com Carpool that's RocketMoney.com Carpool RocketMoney.com Carpool Today's episode is brought to you by Tumble. I have a new puppy and two kids with a third on the way. So a rug that is not both machine washable and spill proof is is just unacceptable to me. It is all that I'm buying right now. It is all that I'm considering right now. Because when the inevitable happens, an accident happens. My day can either be ruined that now my rug is ruined, or I'm gonna be on my hands and knees scrubbing stains. Or I can say no big deal, take the COVID off, throw it in the wash, we're fine. We're moving on with our day. So that's why I love Tumble rugs. They have this spill proof surface that causes liquids to beat up on top of the rug. So instead of soaking fibers like most rugs, you can literally wipe spills away in seconds. And when you need a deeper clean, tumble rugs are machine washable. So you just take the top layer off, throw it in the washer and you're good to go. Machine Washable Rugs made Better For a limited time only, Our listeners get 10 off plus free [e-mail] Carpool that's t u m b l e-living.com Carpool after your purchase they will ask you where

[B]

you heard about them.

[C]

Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[B]

Yeah, we went to the the St. Louis Air show this weekend which was so fun. It's literally seven minutes from my house so it felt like something we had to do. And similarly to the Car Mata show, it only comes every two years so this was my first time going, and to go at 30 weeks pregnant was bold, but I got such a hookup from a carpool listener. I have to give her a shout out. I'm not going to say her name because privacy. But she was like, yeah. She's like, hey, my husband's a blue angel. She goes, normally we go to some of these events. Like, we skipped this one. And so she was. She. She was able to give us some, like, friends and family tickets. So we were able to, like, get under a tent and have, like, better parking, which I was so thankful for because the other parking was so far. I wouldn't have made it. I would have just, like, Maddie would have been pushing a double stroller and carrying his pregnant wife. It was so hot, but it was so cool. I've never been to an air show, Kel. Like, two years from now, we are. We're making it a thing. Like, I have a better lay of the land now.

[A]

Well, and that's so good to have about the land.

[B]

I got some good tips from Jen Lou Angel's wife.

[C]

And,

[B]

yeah, so we are. We're doing. We're doing. We're doing it right next year.

[A]

Down for that.

[B]

It's so cool. They do, like, backflips in the air, Kelly. It's the craziest thing.

[A]

I know. And, like, how. It was really loud, though.

[B]

Yeah, no, you need. The kids need ear protection. I mean, my house sounded like a war zone.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. It's really, really loud.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it was a lot of fun.

[A]

I love an event every two years. You know what I mean?

[B]

I love an event every two years. Like, we went with mom and dad, and all of us, without coordinating, showed up in red, white, and blue. It's just, like, this very patriotic vibe.

[A]

Just.

[B]

It's got all the military planes, you know, walking around with my husband, I realize I sometimes forget how much he knows about history. And he was telling us what all these different planes did and yada, yada, yada, and what war they fought in and what. Whatever, and it's just really interesting. And so if you can get the chance to see an air show, would recommend.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have we talked enough?

[B]

Let me think.

[A]

Because I just, like, would really like to talk about yesteryear.

[B]

We can talk. We can. We can talk about yesteryear. Because if you haven't read it, I think you should just go read it. Because here's the thing. Everyone's talking about it. It's just like, it's. I don't watch reality tv. But it feels to me like if I were to watch Love Island, I would be. I can have more conversations with people.

[A]

And even if you don't, because I can see why people don't like it. But you will finish it and you will, like, yeah, it's hard to put down.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So spoilers ahead. We're gonna talk about it. Let's get into it yesteryear.

[A]

So I loved it. It's a five star book for me, which is really crazy.

[B]

That is crazy.

[A]

I'm like, I thought it was an excellent book.

[B]

My initial thoughts of it was I didn't like it. I did like it, but I didn't like the ending. And at the end of it, I was like, what was. What was this all for? But I was entertained, so maybe that's like, I would. I was cleaning my kitchen and listening to it every night. I was listening to the car. Like, I was constantly listening to it. But by the end of it, I couldn't tell if I liked it or if I thought that was an obscene waste of my time.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I. Okay, so let's start with, like, the trad wife storyline to start with. So when I like the first chapter, I like, literally was like, I'm gonna hate this book because this girl just hates influencers, hates trad wives, and hates ballerina farms. And I don't like ballerina farms slander. I really don't think the book was all that much about that. And I actually thought it, at least for me, it in a weird way felt like a really, like a very. Some aspects of it felt like, very relevant to my life, I guess. And so maybe that's why I liked it so much because, like, although, like, I'm. I don't think I'm anything like Natalie because I think I don't have probably narcissism and a psychotic break coming. I thought that showing, like, the. The darker sides of it was really

[B]

interesting, but I think they showed it all incorrectly. Like, I think that she is not. She. She's such an unrealistic character in my mind. So I'm like, I. I think we were all really interested in a book about the trad wife influencers because it's something that's so relevant to our lives today. But this character of Natalie was so unrealistic and so not relevant to our lives today. I mean, at first, when she had Clementine and she, like, couldn't really connect with her, I'm like, okay, so we're gonna get into some postpartum depression. Like, I can't relate to how she's feeling about her daughter, but, like, I do know that some people, like, don't connect their babies. And then she just, like, didn't like any of her kids the entire time and.

[A]

No.

[B]

How many? She have nine of them.

[A]

See, I disagree because I think that it's an extreme. Like, extreme stories and extreme circumstances happen. Like, she is a crazy. I mean, for lack of words, she is crazy.

[B]

No, I know she's crazy, but that's why I think it's unre. That's why I was. That's why I was kind of bothered because, like, by the end of it, I'm like, oh, okay, so this is not relevant to anything in anyone's lives. We just listen to the inner narrative of someone with a severe mental issue that could have used help and had all of the resources that she could have gotten help and didn't get help. People saw the red flags. No one did anything. She had nine kids. She ended up abusing children for it. Like, I'm like, this was just. Like, this was just unrealistic. And.

[A]

No, I hear what you're saying, but I think it's a. But there are people like that in the world, so I think it's. I. I think it's.

[B]

Of course, but they're. They're trying to marry this. This offshoot of person with, like, this. This thing, this trad wife influencer that we're all very familiar with. And I just. I didn't like marrying those two personalities together because I'm like, okay, well, I didn't know that. This was just. I was excited to explore a more realistic approach to what someone like Ballerina Farms lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would look like.

[A]

I do think, like, we'll get more of those books because, like, now this

[B]

is a.

[A]

I think we'll have more books about influencers to kind of like, scratch that itch for us. But I thought it was. I actually liked that it was so. The character was so out there in a way that I guess I just. I don't want to say it was a good story because it was a sad story, but, like, it was a story nonetheless. It was an interesting story and it

[B]

was a story, but just the way that I guess that the book was framed and I think what everyone thought the book was going to be about. I was like, here, like, someone should write a book about a trad wife like Ballerina Farms, who does actually get transported and then, like, tries to actually make it. Like, I was. I was excited. I Thought we were going to see more of, like, could you actually survive in this time period? And we didn't really get that.

[A]

No, we didn't. And I would agree. I was expecting that, too. So maybe I also just like that we got something very unexpected. And the only thing I'll say about, like, that whole storyline and, like, this is kind of an offshoot about some of the hate I think that Ballerina Farms gets, which I think is so unwarranted because, like, there's nothing wrong with romanticizing and borderline, like, honoring a certain time period. And it's no different than what all you girly pops are doing with the 90s. Like, every. You won't want to go back to the 90s. You could never give up your Amazon Prime. Like, calm down. Like, it's okay to romanticize periods of time like Ballerina Farms and does in a way, without actually wanting to go back to it. Like, it's fine. It's fine to have to have both. And I really think if you look at it through the lens of, like, okay, is that really any different than wanting to give my kids a 90 summer? The answer, I'm sorry, is no.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

It's the same thing. So I was actually happy it wasn't that much of a storyline because I don't find. I don't think Ballerina Farms actually wants to go back and live in the 1800s.

[B]

No, I don't think Ballerina Farms does either. But if I was dropped in the 1800s or Ballerina Farms was dropped in the 1800s, I think she would thrive a lot more. And I kind of. I was sure it was gonna be more of a hero story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not so much like a. Just kind of like, hate on women's story.

[A]

Well, and that's kind of like. I think another critique of the book is the author just kind of, like, hates women because no women. No woman really, like, made it out okay. Because they're either, you know, romanticizing, like, being a. Whatever. They're either, like, ending up like Natalie or the way the author would talk about the girls who would, like Rena, like, Reena. Like, you just, like, couldn't win. So I didn't. I didn't love. Love that. I don't know who the author thinks is, like, a woman who's winning, or maybe the story is, like, no matter what, like, you just have to make their sacrifices to be made all over the place. But it was a little. I just want to let you guys know, like, women can be Happy. Like, if that does not need to be said. Like, you have. You can be happy without.

[B]

Yeah, there's lots of ways to get there. I don't. I don't really know who in the book I was supposed to like, so.

[A]

And I think it's okay because I actually. Everyone said that Natalie was a really unlikable character now. Unlikable person? Yes. Like, I want to be so clear with that. I didn't find her to be that unlikable. I actually found Caleb to be so unlikable, so insufferable. Like, he sucks. Like, for a while, I was totally understanding.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like, he was just so dumb. Like, he was just always saying the stupidest things. And I was getting so frustrated for her. Like, when he was like, when. Like, they bought the farm, and he's like, I don't want to do cattle. Let's do vegetable. She's like, it's a cattle farm.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, you can kind of. You can say, okay, she's married to this man. They talk about her prenup and how, like, if she does divorce him, like, she's absolutely screwed. She has a. She has a child with him. Like, she's. Yeah, I. I. At the beginning of the book, I was kind of like, okay, she's a little bit trapped in this marriage.

[A]

And I kind of felt like she was actually trying to. To help her husband in a way and, like, to sit. To help her marriage in a lot of ways. So. And, like, when he came home with the kindergarten teacher idea, like, I. I actually didn't think it was the worst idea he could have come home with.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

But I loved hearing her thought process when she's like, okay, so I can choose kindergarten teacher, or I can make him a cowboy. And, like, obviously, she's a person who, like, really cared about images. Like, even before she was ever an influencer, she really cared about images because she was always talking about how she didn't want the neighbors to see that her husband was doing yoga in the middle of the day. So I could understand her thought process of being like, I think I'd rather be married to a cowboy. Like, I could understand why she was saying that, and I thought it was interesting how she, like, went to Doug and, like, just kind of took control of the situation. Like, I really. I don't want to say I admired her because she is such a problematic character, but, like, I was kind of, like, rooting for them in a little bit. For a little bit. And again, at this point, you don't know what the book's about. So, like, I'm literally thinking they're gonna end up on at this ranch, and then she's going to somehow go back to a time machine. So, like, I was still kind of rooting for them.

[B]

Yeah, I just, like, I'm just like, he gave you $5 million so you could buy this ranch. Like, couldn't he have just given you $5 million? Your husband could have been a kindergarten teacher, and you could have, like, lived happily just, like, all $5 million.

[A]

Yeah. But I wonder if what Doug would have said about Kayla being a kindergarten teacher.

[B]

Well, we don't know Doug's narrative. Like, I just thought that hers was a little bit harsh for his, like, first. First idea or, like, I don't know.

[A]

But also it was. But maybe she just knew Caleb, because I'm telling you, Caleb was so dumb. Like, she was like, do you know what they teach in schools? And then he would, like, go on these forums. Like, he. Let's be clear. He would have been a horrible kindergarten teacher because he would have taught kids propaganda. Like, he was kind of. I. But I. I, like, loved the exaggerated narrative of, like, being a guy who's, like, watching too much YouTube and, like, following into the traps.

[B]

Like, I thought that was an interesting narrative as well. The manosphere.

[A]

The manosphere was an interest. Was very interesting. So then. And, you know, I thought the writing was also just, like, really good. Oh, my gosh. One of my favorite, like, scenes that, like, really made me feel a little sad and a little scene was when she was. I don't remember who she was talking to. I guess it was Nanny Louise. And she's like, what's your Instagram? Like, I'd love to follow you. And she's like, oh, I don't have Instagram. And now it was like my whole world came screeching to a halt because, like. And I kind of did. And maybe a sick, twisted way, like, kind of relate to that. Because sometimes I think Instagram is, like, so much of my life because it's so much of my business. And then sometimes, like, talk to people who don't have it. I'm like, oh, I'm such a loser. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'm. I'm actually so out of touch.

[A]

Like, of course I don't have Instagram because, like, they have better things to do. I just don't. Which. Those. I'm not saying that's like a. That's a fair narrative to tell myself, but I did. I've had those moments when I'VE been like, oh look, when someone's like, what do you do? I'm like, oh, do you have Instagram? They're like, no. And I'm like, well then never mind. I just don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we don't need it. We don't need to have further conversation.

[A]

She was like, I thought that was kind of interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Today's episode is brought to you by K12 for parents, summer means it's time to reflect on the previous year. What worked well? What could be better? What are next year's goals for the year ahead? It's worth exploring all your options to make sure your child is comfortable, supported and challenged enough in their learning environment. That's why I want to tell you about K12 powered schools. K12 offers tuition free accredited online public schools for students in kindergarten through 12th grade. Families have been turning to K12 for at home learning for over 25 years and it could be the perfect fit for your child. At K12, students learn from state certified teachers that are trained in online education, so this is different than traditional homeschooling. They provide personal instruction and real time support and use hands on innovative technology that makes learning interactive. Plus, K12 offers flexible education options tailored to each child's needs, interests and goals so they can learn in a way that fits best for them. Explore what's possible for your child with K12 powered schools. Enroll online [e-mail] Carpool that's the letter K, the number 12.com Carpool k12.com Carpool

[D]

Today's episode is brought to you by Morning Brew Daily. If you are looking for another podcast that likes to break down maybe some traditionally boring things, but in a fun, fresh way, you should check out Morning Brew Daily. They break down the biggest news in business every morning so it fits seamlessly into your day. Hosts Neil Freman and Toby Howell cover everything from the latest tech headlines to I Nobody can afford a house right now. Their witty, informative approach makes morning news fun, not a chore. You'll leave each episode of Morning Brew Daily smarter and ready to take on

[B]

the world around you.

[D]

Audiences say it's the perfect addition to their morning routine. Whether you're commuting, exercising, or getting ready for the day, Morning Brew Daily makes it easy to make sense of the world of business. So find out what millions of listeners already know. Business news doesn't have to be boring and potentially will give you a topic

[B]

to talk to Mark about at the Trivia at the Trivia Tournament.

[D]

So turn it. So tune into Morning Brew daily, every

[B]

weekday morning, wherever you get your podcasts. So the other thing that I felt like was just kind of missing was when did she, like, learn these. These skills?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

This trad wife. Because I feel like we saw none of that. It's just like, she moved to a farm and then, boom, she got the. The skill set. And also she didn't. When she was just like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna create an Instagram. Like, there was nothing leading up to, like, I didn't even know she was on social media. Like, there was. There was nothing leading up that made me think that this would be something she was interested in doing. And so I didn't get her just, like, randomly starting to post and like, this. What's. What kind of success did she think she was gonna get? Like, I don't. I didn't feel like she was shooting for that. It just kind of, like, happened to her when that man shouted her out on his, like, stream or whatever.

[A]

I agree. And I didn't love that because then it just felt like Caleb was getting the credit for that.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

yeah, I agree. I have no idea when she learned to make sourdough. And I maybe would have liked to have seen you know, maybe the growth in that they're on the ranch together and, like, they're working on things or. Yeah, I agree. They kind of glazed over that.

[B]

I mean, the book just starts with her literally going to Harvard. So I'm like, okay, this is going. This is a very high functioning, intelligent, like, motivated person. And then we just see her just, like, not show any signs of that. Throughout the book, I felt like, yeah, she. Like, everything she did was out of desperation. It wasn't out of strategy or intelligence or anything she's learned. Like, every. It felt like every single move she made was just desperation. And maybe that's part of it.

[A]

That's interesting. No, that is interesting. I think it was, though. She always. Since, like, she was this high achiever, she was like, always after more. Like, that's why she just couldn't be happy with her rich husband living off his family. Like, she just wanted more from everybody, I guess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you definitely start to see, like, you know, before we even get to yesteryear, like, you definitely start to see just, like, decline mentally. Like, and I thought, like, her internal monologues were really sobering. Like, it was honestly sometimes hard to listen to, especially when I was doing it as an audiobook. Because then, like, I. For, like, the, like, after, I was like, if I was Listening to it, like, while with my kids. And, like, I turned it off. Then, like, I would start to have these, like, thoughts in my head.

[B]

Oh, that's so weird.

[A]

I didn't expect. Because I was, like, hearing it. I don't know. I can't explain.

[B]

I listened to it, too.

[A]

I don't know. I just caught myself for, like. I mean, not long. But then it's like, I couldn't get her secondary voice, like, out of my head, which I think kind of maybe just added to, like, this being, like, such an experience of a read for me. And then we start getting to yesteryear, and it was. That was just wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I had no idea where it was going. Like, I couldn't believe. I hated that. Like, she, like, got her foot basically chopped off. Like, I found that to be, like, really distracting.

[B]

Yeah. And because, like, now is how. Now is. How is she supposed to succeed at anything? Like.

[A]

Yeah. No, literally, I'm like, she's gonna die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also. I don't understand. I still don't understand why they decided to do this yesteryear thing. Like, why did they do that?

[B]

And here's the other thing I'm not buying about it is, like, the only hint they did it so well, that the only hint that she found was this teeny, tiny piece of microphone plastic. Like, there wasn't anything else that could have tipped her off. Like, they did it that well. They transformed the cabin. They didn't. They covered up every outlet, every secret, every cord that they once had. Like, they. How. Yeah, they were that successful at it.

[A]

Well, and I remember reading it at some point and being like, these people aren't talking, like, how they would talk in the 1800s. Like, Caleb wasn't talking like that. Like, she wasn't talking.

[B]

Like.

[A]

So that's where I was. Like, that's. I. I did think it was, I guess, a dream, if, like. Or a psychotic break. Like, I. That's what I always thought. I thought it was fascinating, though, how, like, when she was talking about the kids because, like, they looked like her kids, but they weren't her kids, because they are her kids. Like, they're just other combinations of her and Caleb. I just don't understand why they did it and why Caleb went along with it.

[B]

Because we know that Natalie had a mental, like, crisis, and so why. Yeah, why did he go along with it? Why did he, with all the resources that they had, not try and get this woman help?

[A]

I mean, it's like, put her in, like, a place for a While.

[B]

I mean, that's. That.

[A]

And, like, her mom should have, like, Like. And why didn't she ever think to, like, ask where her mom was or her sister was? Like, I. But I think that's.

[B]

That's something that I found really disturbing is while she was in yesteryear back in time, she never once asked, where are my other children? She never cared where her other four children were. And I'm like, you. That's. It was the. It was the motherhood of it all that I just found I could not relate to and I could not get past because I'm like, okay, you're stuck in this place. Like, you're worried about you. You're worried about how you're gonna get out. Where are your kids? Because at this time, you think you still have four kids that are young.

[A]

You know, she for sure does not. She does not love her children. I would say, like, that was. And even.

[B]

That's what I found really sad and disturbing, which.

[A]

Which I agree. Which I found sad and disturbing. I. Of course. But I don't want to say I found it even. It's unreal. It's unrelatable. But, like, there are people like that. So I. Again, I found that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I'm centering myself, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just like, I don't like you. I'm sorry.

[A]

But, like, even with Maeve, oh, my gosh. And then, like, hearing maeve was, like, 10. Like, that was like. So that was the hardest scene in the book to read. And then, like, Mary was probably, like, 18 and just, like, malnourished and that

[B]

Caleb would take his sons when they turned 13 or whatever to the manosphere, and then they got to learn where the TV is, and they got to learn about the world, but Mary, who was the oldest one, just had to stay there. Like, it was.

[A]

So that's what I'm saying. That's disturbing. I don't have enough. Like, Caleb obviously has things wrong with him, too. Like, that's where I just, like. And Caleb's not getting enough hate in this book. Truthfully, he's not getting enough hate, and he deserves more hate and more responsibility.

[B]

He literally, like, locked these women up in this cabin so he could go hang out of the manosphere.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, hold up.

[A]

But, like, did he love her, though? Because, like, why would he be with. Like, that's. There's just. I mean, I liked. I liked the twist enough that I still really like the book, but I just. And maybe, like, this is just kind of for you to think about, but I just don't understand why. I don't understand how he went from, like, hey, my dad's gonna kill you to, yeah, I'm gonna. Like, because also, even though he had the manosphere, okay. He still had to, like, live in that cabin that was cold and, like, work hard and, like, he still didn't, like, live a Kush life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Necessarily.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, like, yeah, that was where then, like, his other sons would come help. Like, that was crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Just, like, there's a lot of unanswered questions about it all. And how about Shannon? Shannon as a character?

[A]

Well, she sucked. She was a horrible character.

[B]

She was a horrible character. I found her to be so frustrating because, like, so, okay, so she disagrees with their family, Doug's political stance. So be. So then she decides to go and seduce Caleb, father of almost. I don't know how many kids she has at this point, but father of many to a pregnant wife. And then when it comes out, the things that she says to Natalie, I'm sorry, I also might have physically punch someone if they were to say those things to me. Like, she said the most outrageous, nasty, horrible things. Like, yeah, I actually, like, okay, I probably wouldn't strangle someone, but, like, I would slap someone if they said those words to me. 100%.

[A]

Yeah. Shannon was. Oh. And again, it's like, that's another person who, like, this woman is obviously suffering

[B]

and, like, obviously suffering, or you do

[A]

that to her children, you're also doing that to her children.

[B]

You're staying in touch with her. Like, it was just. It was weird. I also didn't buy that Clementine walked the kids through the woods when she was, like, 15 or 16. And, like, I just didn't buy any of it. I just found it all to be just a fantasy book. I bought all of that. I don't know.

[A]

I, I, I, I mean, I hear what you're saying, but I'm also just saying, like, there are ex. This is an extreme story, and there are issues.

[B]

I didn't get enough information on the extra because the kids, Clementine, the set of Clementine and all those kids, they didn't sound abused. She had nannies that took care. Like, their mom didn't sound very involved. It sounded like they had, like, a lot of help that, you know, like, they didn't sound the same level of sure. So I'm not saying that they weren't, because I. We don't. I don't feel like we know. I didn't Feel like we learned enough about their life for the extremity of, of Clementine marching the kids throughout the woods in the middle.

[A]

And I kind of felt like with the first set of kids, like she did, there was times where I felt like she did love them. She was just a stressed out mom trying to keep her life together. And, like, there's moments when I always love my kids. There's moments when they don't where they definitely stress me out. I would like to be away from them. Like, that's normal. Yeah. So I, I, I, I totally agree with that. But then, yeah, like, then why did they, like, get to keep these kids in the woods for 18 years? Like, that was so weird.

[B]

It took them that long. Like, I, well, Clementine said she'd been trying for so long to, like, get the kids, but it took that long.

[A]

Well, it took that long. And also, like, Clementine, like, you also have siblings there who like you. Then Clementine, like, should have gone, like, visited more and, like, tried to help more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or, like, just take them, Clementine. Take them. I mean, you guys obviously all escaped the first time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With, like, no repercussions. Like, take the other ones. Yeah, Clementine. I would, I would like a tell all from Clementine.

[B]

Me too. I, I just. We only had Natalie's pov, and I think that's unreliable.

[A]

She was also an unreliable narrator because sometimes I think we didn't know what she said out loud and what she didn't. I think she said more things out loud than what we realize because I felt like that conversation that her mom, which her mom's like, you're just so mean. Like, you just need to be nice. And like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think as readers, it's like, she doesn't seem that mean.

[B]

Or even at the beginning. Yeah, that and like, at the beginning of the book where she runs into her, like, old high school friend from at Target, and she's like, this girl's thinking this. She's so jealous of me. She thinks, oh, she's so miserable. Like, look at her. She named her daughter Zoe. That's such a stupid name. Like, she's so miserable. And I'm like, okay. No, actually, like, this chick, I think her name was Vanessa just sounds like, like, me. Like, she just sounds like a regular girl who's like, taking her daughter to Target, who doesn't really think about you that often, who maybe thinks it's cool that, like, that maybe you're an influencer or maybe has a preconceived notion of you, but like, you are projecting so much onto this person. And she would do the same thing to Rena. Like, she has not spoke, spoken to arena, doesn't know anything about Rena. She's like, oh, I bet Rena's in a miserable, you know, apartment right now. And she's a knit and she's an intern. Like, we actually didn't know Reena's life path. It was all Natalie's perception of maybe what's going on. Oh, we actually don't know a lot.

[A]

No, we don't. She was an unreliable narrator, which I think makes. Gives it a lot of nuance, which I think is why it's a book that you think about a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we don't know everything.

[B]

And maybe that's what makes a good. Like, I don't know what makes a good book because I don't read that much. I'm like, yes, I listened to the whole thing. And after it, I was like, huh? But I wasn't like, wow, that was awesome. Like, I was. I was. I was kind of left disappointed.

[A]

Yeah, see, I was not. But I think it's just because I. I've read a lot of bad books lately. Could be where I was just like, this was really fascinating. We didn't talk about. Do you think that Natalie actually, like, essayed what's her name? No. Yeah. No, no, no. I don't think so either. I thought that whole storyline was kind of dumb.

[B]

No. Yeah. And the.

[A]

Caleb's like, is that why you don't enjoy it? It was like, that's not. That's not what happened.

[B]

No, there was nothing that led us to believe that she would do that. And again, she was six months pregnant.

[A]

She was just raging. She got.

[B]

She. I'm telling you, maybe it's because I'm pregnant. If someone slept with my husband and then said the series of things that she said to her after that point, after my husband also just told me, I'm going to leave you in our five while you're pregnant with our fifth child to go be with this girl. Like, yeah, I would probably do something that I regret as well. Like.

[A]

But what it wouldn't do is get

[B]

me ready to, you know, essay someone.

[A]

Like, but I guess that's. But I. I feel like an assault would have just. Maybe people would have understood it more because I'm with you. I think we. I think everyone could have been like, yeah, I get it. But again, nothing violence is ever the answer. But, yeah, it's she. But once it's an essay, then It's. Then it's a whole different level.

[B]

But no, I did not that. And think that. I think it was just unfortunate timing that she was in the middle of getting dressed when she said all of these things.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. That was so crazy.

[B]

And I was kind of like waiting for Natalie to get the chance to like have a rebuttal of like, no, that didn't happen. That's not how it happened.

[C]

So maybe.

[A]

But maybe that is how. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. I. That's not how I read it. But it was interesting of just like how quickly someone's life and also their family's lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was shut down. Which is actually kind of scary because like to me that is not what happened. And someone said that that happened. And then Natalie's life was ruined. Her father. Her father in law's political was ruined. Like everything was ruined because of a claim.

[A]

Well, that's why it's crazy that Clementine was like, I'm still in contact with Shannon. It's like that woman ruined your family's life.

[B]

That feels, that feels predatory on Shannon's part. On Shannon's part.

[A]

Yeah. And like. Yeah, I agree. And then I didn't like how

[B]

you're just gonna like tell this girl, like, your mom's terrible. Like you need to run away. Like, you know all these things, Shannon, and you're not doing it, but you're not doing anything to try and get Natalie help.

[A]

I'm kind of with you. I don't really think we got enough of any potential abuse for the older kids. Because even Natalie, maybe just so part

[B]

of my mind while I was listening to the beginning, half is. I'm thinking it's Ballerina Farm. So I am thinking like they're. They're. These kids are going to come from a well off family. Like they have nannies. Like, they're fed, they're taken care of. Like, I didn't know that their mom was crazy. Was. Yeah. You know, going through all this mental stuff. So.

[A]

Well. And there was that one scene when like Caleb came in and he's like, hey, Clementine says she hasn't eaten dinner yet and now it's almost ready and it was like 9:00pm yeah.

[B]

Okay, that's true. Yeah. That's not good.

[A]

No. And then she like looked and like, okay, good. The baby was there. So like that was. I think not. Yeah, not. That was not the best scene. But also it was Shannon's. Who's the one who told them to get in the content?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Natalie Was like, no, they don't like to be in the videos. And Chan's like, let's just try.

[B]

Yes. Kind of hate Shannon.

[A]

I know, I know. I think that's. That's a resounding. I hate Shannon. I think Caleb is actually the worst.

[B]

The worst. Horrible. Really need to actually dig into that a lot more.

[A]

And like he kind of like, like slapped her and essayed her. So. Yeah, let's not forget those. Like, like those were crazy. And he was just like such. He's just was like so stupid. Like, I just couldn't handle his stupidity.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But overall, I'm happy I went on the journey. Like, I think the movie. I think it'll be a good movie. Yeah.

[B]

Again, I'm happy that I'm happy I went on the journey because it's good conversation. Like I could talk about this book forever, like for so long. And so that's why I think there's there. It's a good. It's something to read and something to have read and something to be able to talk about because everyone talk to anyone about it and you can talk. There's a lot of tangents to go down. We didn't even talk about them all. And I don't think we should.

[A]

No, I think I'm done. But yeah, it was, it was really good. Okay. And so that's gonna be our episode, you guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would consider doing another book club book with you, but not for a while.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I have my other book club and we're reading Project Hail Mary this week or this month.

[B]

I tried listening to that one. I did not like it.

[A]

It's a 16 hour audiobook.

[B]

I know. I was so. I. Maddie and I started it when we drove to Texas one time because mom loved it.

[A]

Mom, mom says she doesn't listen to it twice.

[B]

Maddie liked it. I found myself bored on a 10 hour drive listening to it.

[A]

I wish she wouldn't have told me that.

[B]

But mom loved it and Maddie liked it, so.

[A]

Books are so personal and like me and mom are learning. Me and mom do not have the same taste in books, which is very interesting. Well, anyway, I've chosen out of my all my book club books, I have the two lowest rated scores. My picks have been. Which is really embarrassing. It's so tough. It's really embarrassing.

[B]

That's tough. What a good book that I read was that mom told me to read. Let me look it up because this one, like, I feel like your book

[A]

club girls would like telling you they're such readers. Though. Like, they don't.

[B]

Well, they might have read it. That's. That's the. That's the problem. Let's see. Oh, gosh. Sorry. Maddie and I share a. An audible, and he just is always listening to books. I'm like, what? No, it wasn't the Nightingale. I couldn't listen to that. That made me too depressed.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard that. Okay.

[B]

I actually don't know what it was, but. Okay, I'll let you know if I can figure it out.

[A]

I've got a couple. It's not my pick for two more picks. So this is Claire's pick, and then it'll be Terry's pick, and then I'll be my pick again. So I do have some time to think of a good book. But, like, now you guys know if you're. If you're readers. I hated Theo of Golden, and I really liked yesteryear. Okay, so what's my book? If you have my tastes, let me know.

[B]

Okay? And that's going to be our episode. So thank you so much for listening, and we will talk to you next time. See ya.

[A]

Thank you for listening to the carpool podcast with Kelly and Liz. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed riding with us, tell everybody you know there's room in the car for everyone.