How WeNatal is Rewriting the Fertility Story - Ronit Menashe & Vida Delrahim

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “How WeNatal is Rewriting the Fertility Story”

The Cathy Heller Podcast with Cathy Heller | Featuring: Ronit Menashe & Vida Delrahim, Co-Founders of WeNatal
Date: May 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around reframing the narrative of fertility, recognizing the role of both partners, and reclaiming power over personal health and fertility journeys. Cathy Heller welcomes WeNatal’s founders, Ronit Menashe and Vida Delrahim, for a heartfelt, insightful conversation on shared responsibility in conception, the emotional impact of loss, and practical tools to optimize health and fertility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The WeNatal Story: Friendship, Loss, and Purpose (05:24–10:42)

• Origin:
  • Ronit and Vida met at Nike, became close friends, and initially envisioned working together on something “fun” or “creative.”
  • Their entrepreneurial journey was born out of personal heartbreak—both experienced miscarriages, one week apart.
• Medical System Shortcomings:
  • Vida was told “keep trying, you’re lucky you even got pregnant,” and found little support or answers from conventional healthcare.
  • Ronit, already deeply involved in wellness and functional medicine, realized through research that male health is responsible for 50% of pregnancy outcomes—a fact largely omitted from mainstream fertility conversations.
• The Impact of Shame:
  • Cathy shares, “The hours I have spent in my own journey, just feeling the sense of responsibility and shame… I never considered, actually, until this moment that there was anything different that could have been done outside of what I did.” (12:30)

Breaking the Fertility Narrative—It’s Not Just a Woman’s Issue

• Powerful Statistic:
  • “One in four women that go through fertility treatments, their husband’s or partner’s sperm is not even checked.” (14:14 – Ronit)
  • High-dose antioxidants can dramatically improve male fertility—the basis for WeNatal’s men’s prenatals.
• Changing the Conversation:
  • Ronit: “It takes an egg and a sperm to make a baby. You need to optimize both of them.” (16:20)
  • WeNatal champions a team approach: “Our WeNatal men are going to be the best dads because they’re involved from day zero.” (16:50)

Cathy’s Own Fertility Journey and Grief (17:31–23:27)

• Personal Testimony:
  • Cathy recounts her repeated losses and the pressure placed solely on her body.
  • She describes the profound effect on her marriage, sense of self, and the isolation brought by trauma.
  • “I felt like such shame and sadness. Then I got pregnant on our anniversary and had a miscarriage. It really affected my marriage… I was already in my second trimester again.” (21:19)
• Societal Myths Dispelled:
  • The myth that men’s fertility does not decline with age is false; both partners’ health (including mitochondrial health of eggs and sperm) is crucial.

Science & Hope—You Can Change the Narrative (31:38–37:06)

• Mitochondria & Egg Quality:
  • “If you fuel your mitochondria, then you’re less likely to have those genetic abnormalities.” (24:39 – Ronit)
  • After adopting a regimen focused on functional medicine, Ronit became pregnant at 42: “I took three months without trying… at 42 I got pregnant on my first try.” (32:22)
• Shifting Mindset:
  • Biological age can differ from chronological age; optimizing health can improve outcomes even at “advanced” maternal ages.

Shared Purpose & Spiritual Lessons (35:49–41:35)

• Embracing Grief as Part of Purpose:
  • Vida: “Those losses have taught me more about life than you can imagine… About a year and a half ago, I started doing Kabbalah, and it’s taught me about the meaning of these souls…” (36:22)
  • Cathy shares her spiritual framing: “Every soul has its own volunteer mission and signs on the dotted line for whatever the life is… this baby’s only understanding of reality was being with you, Cathy.” (37:23)
• The healing power of sharing stories:
  • “Thank you for making a space to talk about what is often unsaid.” (40:56)

Health, Modern Environment, and Actionable Steps (41:35–50:27)

• Declining Fertility Statistics:
  • Men today have 50% less sperm compared to their grandfathers.
  • Societal trends and toxins (“modern toxic soup”) play a huge role.
• Practical Solutions:
  • Detox your home—switch to glass/stainless steel, clean personal care and household products.
  • Nutrition: “The Mediterranean diet is pro-fertility in both men and women.” Three months of clean living can make a difference.
  • Move more, sleep more, reduce stress, cultivate gratitude (WeNatal offers a journal for mind-body alignment).
  • “No one should take face value from one doctor—test, trust your gut, do your own research.” (46:21 – Vida)
• Supplements & Skepticism:
  • Bioavailable, high-quality supplements are crucial since today’s food supply is less nutritious; not all prenatals are equal.
  • “Ours is made with the purest ingredients which anybody can absorb. You just can't get everything from food.” (54:52–55:30 – Ronit)
  • Add in a quality multivitamin, omega 3, and magnesium for foundational support.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Male health is the reason for 50% of miscarriages.” (Ronit, 09:40)
• “No woman should ever feel like fertility is solely on her shoulders. It is a team sport.” (Vida, 10:39)
• “Sometimes the most obvious thing is hidden in plain sight.” (Cathy, 12:30)
• “Men today have 50% less sperm compared to their grandfathers.” (Ronit, 41:36)
• “If you fuel your mitochondria, then you’re less likely to have those genetic abnormalities and then have a way lower chance of having a pregnancy loss.” (Ronit, 24:39)
• “Thank you for making a space to talk about what is often unsaid.” (Cathy, 40:56)
• “Our health and our fertility are intertwined.” (Ronit, 33:25)
• “Do your own research. You can’t just take at face value what maybe one doctor will say to you.” (Vida, 46:21)
• “We treat our body like pieces… but really you need alignment in the whole body.” (Vida, 45:56)
• “Every soul has its own volunteer mission and signs on the dotted line for whatever the life is.” (Cathy, 37:23)

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Actionable Takeaways

1. Rethink Fertility:
   • Both partners’ health matter; optimize as a team.
2. Mind-Body Connection:
   • Emotional healing, gratitude, and mindset shifts are as important as physical interventions.
3. Audit Lifestyle for Toxins:
   • Small, consistent changes in your home and diet make a real difference.
4. Educate Yourself:
   • Doctors may not always have the latest info—doing your own research is empowering and necessary.
5. Supplements & Nutrition:
   • Quality, bioavailable prenatal vitamins (for both partners), omega 3s, and magnesium are foundational.
6. Hope Is Real:
   • Advanced age does not mean opportunities are over. Biological age and a renewed approach can lead to new possibilities.

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Resources & Where to Start

• WeNatal.com/abundant: Special link for listeners; free magnesium with purchase.
• Comprehensive Resources:
  • Masterclasses (over 11 experts on diverse fertility topics)
  • Journals for mindset and relationship alignment
  • Informational posts on social media (@we_natal)

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Closing Thoughts

This episode breaks the silence on grief, guilt, and the unspoken truths of infertility while arming listeners with scientific knowledge and practical steps. Cathy, Ronit, and Vida encourage reshaping not just fertility, but one’s relationship to health, wholeness, and possibility—reminding everyone, “You have the power to guide your own journey.”

Transcript

[A]

Okay, so I'm so excited because guess what? My paperback of Abundant Ever after is coming out on 11 11.

[B]

How cool is that?

[A]

Simon and Schuster said that they picked that date without Even realizing that 1111 is kind of that date that's like known for synchronicity and that's what the.

[B]

Whole book is about.

[A]

So I'm really excited. It would mean the world to me if you would pre order a paperback. And there's so many perks. If you pre order one copy of the paperback, you get to come, you get a virtual ticket to a live event we're doing that day. If you order three co, you can have a free in person ticket to the event we're doing in person in Los Angeles. If you order five books, five free order of paperback, you get to come sit in the front row and get some perks. And if you order 22 copies, just the first few that do this, I'm going to do a one on one coaching session with you. So go pre order the paperback. It would mean the world to me. And then you can just email helloathy heller.com and you can let us know if you did any of those things and we will get you all the insights and we'll get you the inside scoop on all those perks. I love you guys so much and thank you for supporting Abundant Ever After. It's been so cool to read your reviews and how well the book is doing and it did hit the USA Today bestseller list, which totally means the world to me. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Hey guys, it's Kathy Heller. Welcome back to Abundant Ever After. I hope you had an amazing weekend. I hope you had a beautiful Memorial Day.

[B]

I hope.

[A]

I hope you had a great weekend wherever you were. I wrote something that I wanted to share with you and here it is. It's up to us to make our lives a sanctuary. To choose mornings that feel like prayer instead of pressure. To sip our tea slowly as if it were holy. To let the light in before the noise. To drink in the sunset like it's the last color we'll ever see. To soften into our own presence and make this moment, this exact moment, enough. No one else will give us permission to live this way. We have to choose it again and again until it becomes who we are. Because peace doesn't wait for someday. It's already here, quietly asking, will you slow down enough to receive it? So I shared that with you because I'm actually doing a workshop today to teach a morning practice that is actually what allows me to find the sanctuary, find the peace, which actually then becomes a mirror of everything I'm experiencing. Right. What's happening within us is what winds up creating what's happening all around us. So if you want to join us, you can go to kathyhiller.comworkshop and we will send you the link. Even if you miss it, we'll send you the replay. Speaking about that inner peace, today we have such a beautiful conversation. I'm sitting down with two women that I love so much, Ronit Menasha and Vida Jalraym. They're the co founders of wenatal. These two souls are not only best friends and brilliant entrepreneurs, but they're also rewriting the entire narrative around fertility, pregnancy and what it means to truly create life with partnership. After both experiencing their own heartbreaking losses, they discovered what so many of us were never told, that male health plays a role through 50% in pregnancy outcomes. And yet the burden of fertility is almost always placed solely on women. I've experienced firsthand some fertility issues in my path and I'm sure that we have many women listening who unfortunately know what that road is like. This is an awakening and what they are here to share is so powerful. There is so much wisdom to what they both have to share. And they created this incredible prenatal brand for both men and women and it's grounded in functional medicine and a mission to support whole body health and wholeness. This conversation is not just about supplements, it's about hope, it's about grief, it's about healing and taking back your power. So whether you're on a fertility journey or you're just figuring out wellness, this is going to crack your heart open and remind you that you're not alone and that there is so much here to restore you. Ronit and Vida are both so loving and they have so much knowledge in the space. Their mission is so needed in this world and I think that this will be really eye opening. So without further ado, please welcome the remarkable Ronit and Vita.

[B]

The two of you are so special. Thank you for coming on this show. Thank you for being here. Welcome.

[C]

Thank you. We're so happy to be here, Kathy.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

Honestly, it's so cutting edge what you guys are doing for so many reasons. First of all, being a female founder, working together, having a beautiful flow between the two of you is already beautiful. But also just what you're working on and what you're bringing with wenatal, with your company, it's just really, it's gorgeous and I love that we're living in a time where people have really good ideas like the two of you and you're finding that the world is ready for those big ideas. It's really cool. I want to just hear a little bit about how you guys what the story was because I know a little bit of the background but I think our listeners might want to know like what was the background that led you to starting this company?

[D]

Well, we never envisioned ourselves where we are today. I can honestly say that. So I hit the best friend lottery about 18 years ago now. We met at our corporate careers at Nike and became fast friends. Went through life's journeys together, got married around the same time, wanted to have kids around the same time and really just had a blast in our young single life together. Always knew we might want to work together. Probably thought it would be an events or marketing or something really exciting. But it's really like most founders, a life journey that you kind of don't expect. That brought us to this path of starting wenatal and how it started really was the best friend dream, right? We got married around the same time, we want to have kids around the same time. And Ronique got pregnant first and I was so excited and I, you know, envisioned all the things. I first of all started trying also and got pregnant about like three to six months after her. And you envision it all. Maternity leaves around the same time, our kids being best friends, like the true dream. And little did I know life had a little bit of a different plan for me. I, I surpassed the first trimester and I thought it was safe to tell everyone and had a heartbreaking loss like so many of us had around 14 or 15 weeks where we went to a regularly scheduled appointment and there was no heartbeat. And the devastation and the grief, as you know, Kathy, and so many of your listeners have been through was all encompassing. It was something you never expect to happen to you. You, you've may heard about it and it wasn't really, it was unfathomable at the time. And so putting alongside, I was given really no answers. Like most of us these days, we were dismissed in the system. We were told keep trying, keep going. You're lucky you even got pregnant. And I didn't know better. But I went on to support my best friend who had a beautiful baby girl. And I totally remember those feelings of like love and excitement and true grief that like, you know you don't have and you so want what she has. And will I ever have kids? Is a question that I asked myself often and what I did to deserve it. Right. The why is kind of consumed me. And so fast forward to, you know, the no answers, and you kind of do nothing differently and you pray. And Ronit actually helped me a ton. And thank God she, you know, after her career, went on to work for Dr. Mark Hyman and learned all this stuff about functional medicine. She's like, have you thought about checking your thyroid? Have you talked about this? None of my doctors told me that. But Ronie encouraged me to go deeper because all my labs were coming out, quote, unquote, normal. And it wasn't until I did that I kind of fixed some things with her guidance, and she put me on a supplement protocol, and I went on to have a healthy baby girl. About a year and a half later, in 2020, is when this journey really begins. And that was when I had a miscarriage again. And it was after my first child. And, you know, again, I was just told that this is normal, it's common, keep going. And the kicker this time is that Ronit had one a week after me.

[C]

And for me, it was shocking because I was in the wellness space. I was doing all the things already. I thought I was healthy. And when I asked my doctor, what can I do to optimize for a healthy pregnancy next time around, the doctor said, there's nothing you could do. It's one in four. You're 41 years old. It just happens because you're older. And that didn't make sense to me because I didn't feel old, I didn't look old. I got pregnant and had, you know, naturally with my first at the age of 38, which, by the way, is considered old. And it didn't make sense. So we started to go down the rabbit hole of research, of talking to all of the experts in our corner. Thank God I had a huge network of functional medicine doctors, nutritionists, experts in the space. And we actually learned the biggest. Aha. Which seems like the most basic thing that men and men's health is the reason for 50% of miscarriages. So something that we were completely, oh.

[B]

My God, I'm today years old when I've ever known that. I just learned that right this second.

[D]

It's wild, right? You would think it's so intuitive. We both were floored, and I remember crying, bawling in the doctor's office, saying, could this be because my husband drinks or smokes or does this or does that or does has an unhealthy lifestyle? He literally told me, nope, the healthiest guy will Swim, keep it moving. Essentially, the burden of fertility was on me, and that dismissed after we finding out the research. That was the beginning. In the end, Kathy, we knew we had to do something about it. No woman should ever feel like fertility is solely on her shoulders. It is a team sport, and it requires two partners to put their best foot forward.

[B]

I mean, I just. We just have to pause for a second and really let that marinate, because that is so profound and so disruptive in terms of, you know, you want to be a good disruptor. Like, that is so out of the box. And even with all the time that I've spent, and I'll share maybe in a moment a little bit about my fertility journey, but never have I had this conversation. And it really. It's so powerful for women to allow themselves to not carry this burden. It is very interesting that fertility is immediately something that you think of as a woman's issue when it does take both, right? And we carry the guilt and the shame and the pressure and the loneliness of what it feels like to go through it and feel responsible, feel a hundred percent responsible. And this is so much bigger than even Wenatal. Like, the fact that you're really championing this conversation will open up the ripple effects that will come from your capacity to have the courage to really stand up and say these things is so huge. And so many babies will be born, right? So it's just. It's so beautiful. And thank you for really rocking our world. And even in this moment, I'm sitting here thinking of the hours I have spent in my own journey, just feeling the sense of responsibility and shame and humiliation and loneliness in moments where I wasn't able to get to the finish line, let's say, in a pregnancy. And I never have considered, actually, until this moment that there was anything different that could have been done outside of what I did and what I was responsible for. So. Or whatever nature, you know, or whatever God had in. In the plans. And this is really, like, I'm just taking it in, but I can. I can sense how this conversation is really not just about the gorgeous gifts that you've made in the supplements. It's really about how this is probably landing for women who are listening. And maybe this is not news to a lot of listeners, but it is news to me to put it so directly. And I'm just really. I'm super grateful that you're changing the conversation, because, I mean, it's. It's about time. Like, if this, you know, it's so obvious as you Say it. Which I think is why my body has a full hell yes. Because it's so obvious. But sometimes the most obvious thing is like hidden in plain sight. And this is one of those things. And so I mean, the hours I spent in a fertility clinic with other women and women and women. And like the conversation is always directed at me. So I'm just like, my mind is like going back over. Looking back, it's like when you watch the Sixth Sense and you're like, I'm going to watch it again. Was Bruce there or not? It's like I'm going back thinking, let me replay every moment in conversation. And who was the star of the show? Me and my body and whatever it could or could not do. So I'm just having a moment of like, I'm really amazed.

[C]

And Kathy, one in four women that go through fertility treatments, their husband's or partner's sperm is not even checked. Because the idea is that you just need this one sperm to fertilize the egg. And it's not this thought process around optimization. It's not the thought process about creating two environments in the male body and the female body that will like create conception in an optimal way. And so, you know, for us, we learned that. And I remember the moment hearing this stat on 50%. And I was going on PubMed and I was like, wait, is it really 50%? Maybe it's 20%, maybe it's 30%, maybe it's. And it's 50, 50. It takes an egg and a sperm to make a baby. And you need to optimize both of them. And our biggest revelation and why we even created Wenatal, was when we learned that men that take high dose antioxidants like CoQ10, vitamin C, vitamin E, NaC, have a five times higher chance of getting their partner pregnant and having a live birth. So supplements, because you can't get these high doses from food supplements can make a big difference in your fertility journey. And I remember one day I was at my brother's house and he's a super busy guy. I was telling him about the idea. I was like, what if we made prenatals for men? And you know, he was loving the idea. And then he calls me and I'm like, hey, what's up? Is everything okay? He's like, no, I just want to tell you, you have to do this. This is. And it coming from a man who actually has extremely successful businesses here in Los Angeles. I called Vida and I was like, listen, we have to do this. And it started off with creating a men's prenatal, and then we just saw that there was so much opportunity for better prenatals for women. We felt like we deserve better. And we ended up also working on a women's prenatal at the same time. And I think our approach is, you know, we. Natalie, it's prenatals for both of us. We're in it together. And we always say that our, we natal men, our men who are on prenatal are going to be the best dads because they're involved in parenting from day zero. They're part of it. They're in the trenches with their partner, taking the supplements, doing all the things together, and it makes a big difference. And you know, three where it's almost our third year birthday and we've been hearing so many stories and people invite us to their baby showers and people stop us on the street and give us their Wenatal babies, and it's the most amazing thing. And also other brands are launching men's prenatals, which is great. We love that, you know, we can't do this alone and we have to shift the narrative and we have to do it as a collective.

[B]

Well, first of all, that's super abundance mindset. And so the fact that you just said it in such a beautiful way, it's like, yes, you're a trend center. And the, the. The fact of the matter is, like, you will be given just so much more blessing because you see the need and you want everybody to just help, you know, with that need. It's really so amazing. I'm thinking about some of my listeners know the story, but when I got married, I got married at 30 and I was like, great, we'll just, like, have a kid. And I couldn't get pregnant. And at first I wasn't talking to a fertility doctor. I was just going to a regular obgyn. And she really wasn't with it, but I thought she was. And so she took my FSH score and then she tested this and she's like, oh, you're probably not going to get. She literally said words to me that, looking back, were completely ridiculous. But when you have a little bit of knowledge, sometimes you. You miss a lot of contacts. And she's like, based on this FSH score, I don't think you have a lot of reserve, so I don't think you're going to have a baby. I was like, what? And then she told me the weirdest thing, which is that my pelvis was tilted and that was Another problem. So she took forceps and they did these inseminations with me. And when I later went to a fertility doctor, that alone, he said could have like, actually, really, actually scarred me physically. Like, it was so dangerous. And I would sit there and bleed. And it was so painful. And he's like, none of that should be happening. It was like in Dirty Dancing when she's like, he used to hang. I mean, it was like, that's obviously for a different reason, but it was so backwards thinking. It was like, I can't even believe I went through that in like a modern day facility with a doctor that people seem to really like. It was just like she knew nothing about fertility and it was insane. And eventually when I found my fertility doctor, who I really love, Dr. Hal Dancer, my husband calls him the Zen master, he was like, you're gonna have a baby. That's a fact. It's just a matter of time. We're just gonna figure out your system. Except that it was all about me and my system. And I felt the weight and the guilt and the shame and all of that. And then we just went through Clomid. It didn't work. Then we went through ivf, a cycle, it didn't work. Then we went through certain levels of Gonol F and Follistim and this and that. And eventually I had a baby, you know, and then, you know, I just kind of thought, okay, that's what you do is you pump yourself with meds and like it's kind of you go through. And so I would go through like round after round. And then like this one would work and then this one wouldn't work and this and that. And then we wound up having a baby with trisomy 18, which is a fatal issue. The baby had a hole in the brain, there was a hole in the heart. And in my second trimester, I was told that I had to terminate the pregnancy, which was beyond excruciating. So there was that. And then I tried to get pregnant again. And I wish I would have spoken to you guys because that loss was so profound that I wanted to than have a baby. I really wanted to, because I was in the middle of my second trimester and of course didn't want to lose that baby. And so then I went through ivf, which was awful because I hate all those drugs. I hate how I feel on all those drugs. And when they did the collection of the embryos and we fertilized them, we had five embryos and they were all insane. One had Three extra chromosomes. One was missing a chromosome, one had. I mean, it was just. Nothing was viable. Was just like, oh, my gosh. And I felt, like, so inept. And I'm like, my body makes crazy. I mean. I mean, the amount I remember where I was, I was on Pico near Beverly Glen, and he called to tell me what the embryos turned out to be like. And I pulled over and listened and wept and thought I felt so, like, disgusting as a person that this is what I produce. I actually felt like, such shame and sadness. And then I gave it a break. And then I wound up getting pregnant out of nowhere a year later on our anniversary, which is like, I try to stay clear of him, of course. Like, I got pregnant, I was like, why am I nauseous? Oh, I got pregnant on our anniversary and I had a miscarriage. And I was so fed up, I was like, oh, my God. And honestly, it really affected my marriage because I was like, I cannot have sex anymore because this is now. I've now had a. Like, a horrible determination loss, trisomy 18 pregnancy, then an unsuccessful round of IVF. And then I got pregnant again and I had a miscarriage, and I was already in my second trimester again. And so I had to go through. They give you certain procedures so that you kind of birth the baby at home. I mean, it was just so awful. And from then on, I was like, well, I keep getting pregnant and I don't want to now. And the reason I don't want to is because these babies are not living or viable. So it was a very lonely time. And it. Looking back now, I'm 45, but in those moments at 40, 41 and 43, when these three losses happened, I mean, there were many losses in the beginning of the journey, but these are the most recent ones. It's like, had I had a conversation with you, the two of you, I might have just approached it completely differently. But sad to say, like, not only was I not even taking prenatals in these times, I was just being given drugs, right? But nobody was talking to him about anything. And he's six years older than me also, so the whole thing is fascinating, isn't it?

[C]

Yeah, that's a big one. With men being older. And there's this kind of idea that men. Men's fertility doesn't decline with age because you hear about men having babies in their 80s, right? Celebrities.

[B]

And didn't Charlie Chaplin have a baby at 80?

[D]

And.

[C]

But. But men's fertility does decline and their sperm quality does decline. And there's just, like, so much that both men and women can do. And that's why we're so passionate about our mission and going onto podcasts and talking about it, because we don't want anybody else to experience what we experienced, what you experienced. And listen, there will still be. We. You can't control everything with diet and lifestyle and nutrients, but it definitely helps a lot because pregnancy loss typically happens because of genetic abnormalities. And in the egg, genetic abnormalities happen around two months before ovulation. It's not like, I think there's. There's this myth that as you age, your eggs age with you because you're older, so your eggs are just older. But what actually gets older is your mitoch. Your mitochondria is the battery of the cell, and both sperm and egg have mitochondria. And if you fuel your mitochondria, then you're less likely to have those genetic abnormalities and then have a way lower chance of having a pregnancy loss. And so all of that to say, I'm so sorry that you went through all of that, Kathy. It is. For me, when I had my loss, it was the first time in my life I ever understood, like, trauma. It was really the first time in my life where I ever experienced so much pain. And, you know, now looking at it, you know, in retrospect, I understand why it had to happen to me, because now Vita and I are in complete alignment with our purpose and with what we have to do. And we would have never gotten here, we would have never birthed Wenadal if it wasn't for our losses, and especially that they happened, like, a week apart. Like, it magnified my story. My best friend had it a week before me.

[D]

And just so much to your point that we learned along the way, and, like, you just learned that we're like, we have to screen this from the rooftop top. Like, no woman should ever feel alone in this journey. There's so much we want to educate about their health and what they can do, which we were just dismissed in our processes and told there's nothing we can do. There's so much that our partners can step up and help with. There's so much about mindset that I did not know at the time. And it's all connected, as you always talk about. And, you know, and so uncovering all this stuff in our journey, working with some of the best medical experts in the world, allowed us to assemble this team, allowed us to bring these products. But more than the products, I think the education is what we're so passionate about and really, like, having a voice to share this so that women write in all the time that I never shared about my miscarriage until I heard your story. And thank you for being vulnerable, because it's helping people. Like, I come from a culture where it's pretty much swept under the rug. I didn't even know my own mom had miscarriages until I had mine in my adult life. And it's very much like, just, it's fine. Everything's good. You know, the facade of, like, we're all great and sharing our story has truly been therapy for me. It's really helped me help other people and know that they're not alone and that there's so much within their control. And that's what we're so passionate about, like, kind of changing the narrative.

[B]

It's huge. I mean, there's so many layers to this because, like, in my specific journey, I couldn't get pregnant, which is why I went through all the fertility. And then sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but I wound up, thank God, having three daughters. And then my three miscarriages came from getting pregnant, actually getting pregnant, which I didn't think my body could do without fertility. And every time I got pregnant, it was something that didn't wind up working right. And I'll just say, just because I think the more we really highlight the pain, the more this conversation has even more weight. But for me, when I had to go through that termination for the baby that had trisomy 18 and I went into the hospital, it was during COVID so I had to go into the operation by myself. And they put you under to take this baby out. And I remember coming out of the surgery, and I woke up from surgery crying. And I wasn't in physical pain because they give you enough meds. And I said to the doctor, why am I crying? I'm not in physical pain. And she said the most beautiful thing she said in the or when we took him out, you started to cry because she said, you. You knew. And I felt it's so powerful to be a mother, because even under general anesthesia, my soul knew he's gone. And you know when you have a termination in your 22nd week, and it's a baby that you walk in has a heartbeat, but this baby has a hole in its heart and a hole in its brain, and you cannot have this baby. It's just the most difficult thing to describe to other people what that feels like. And you. You feel so connected. So coming home My house was like a floral shop. The amount of people who are so sensitive and tuned in, like, I've done a million things in my life that you would think maybe people would send me flowers. Nothing to this. And it was actually like, so beautiful that even in something that made me feel like such a failure, people were actually giving me such unconditional love because they understood, they grasped how hard it was. But it was such a lonely time and I just wanted to be in my room for a week by myself. And I couldn't. No one could be with me with what I was being with. And on Friday night, the Shabbat, after we went through this, when we sang Shalom Aleichem, I told my children, which means, you know, you're welcoming the angels to be with you on Shabbat. I said, he's here. Like, he's here. So let's, you know. And it really, really. I'm thinking about it now, like, it actually really affected my marriage because as I said, I used to love the idea of getting pregnant, but once I went through something that was so intense, like that I didn't want to have sex because I didn't want to get pregnant, because I was completely certain that it was going to end up like that. And so I just stopped having sex, actually, because I. I didn't want to go on pills and I didn't want to do all the. It definitely affects your marriage. And the truth is that I'm sitting here thinking, like, I'm 45 and if I could wave a magic wand, I would have another child. Like, I. Having children is my favorite thing God ever lets us get to do. But I'm sitting here thinking I've just made it a foregone conclusion that, like, there is no more to my fertility. But I'm literally sitting here thinking, like, I wonder if people write off things about themselves too soon. Like, if it is our mitochondria, my question is like, is it real? Like, can we actually do something about it? And can our husband actually do something about it so that we can let go of the fear of having sex? Because you're afraid you're going to make some alien come out of your. Like, that's honestly what happened to me in that trauma.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So tell us, like, is that something you really. I mean, is it. Because it feels far fetched. It's like, can you really change that and make your inside so much healthier of an environment?

[C]

100%. And so, going back to our stories, so when we found out this information about Antioxidants support sperm quality and improve all of the things regarding sperm. And that taking high dose antioxidants for women like CoQ10 NAC Alpha lipoic acid plus a multivitamin prenatal can support women's health. We basically took what ended up being in wenatal's prenatal and created our own supplement regimen for husbands and for ourselves. And what we did was I took three months without trying put my husband, he was like piecing together like 12 different pills. He was taking it, I was taking my own. I was going to acupuncture three times a week. And at the age of 42, I got pregnant on my first try with Emma, who's now years old. And honestly, Kathy, it goes back to that, like, narrative. Honestly, I, even though I knew I was doing all the right things and everything I was doing was based in science, I was actually shocked that I got pregnant so quickly. I took a pregnancy test. My sister was over at my house and I was like, oh, it could be so fun if I'm pregnant. Like, I don't know, I mean, there's no chances. So I, like took the pregnancy test, looked at it, threw it in the trash, it didn't look positive. And then the next morning, my husband, who's like OCD and loves cleaning, is like rummaging through the trash and he picks it up and he goes, did you see this? It's positive. And I was like, no, no, it's not. I mean, it's from last night. It can't be positive. And it was positive. And I was pregnant and I was pregnant with Emma. And I think there is this, like, story that's told to us of, like, there's nothing you could do. You're just born with the eggs that you're born with. You age, the quality goes down and it's taking away the power you have the power to improve your health and improve your fertility. And by the way, health and fertility is intertwined. There was just a study that looked at 80,000 men and they found that men with better sperm parameters lived longer. And so by focusing on improving your fertility, improving your outcomes, you're also improving your health. And so, honestly, Kathy, like, I wouldn't say that, like, getting pregnant is off the table for you. I mean, if you. I honestly, I'm 46 and yesterday we were talking as a team and I was like, kind of kidding. I was like, well, I don't know, maybe it's possible for me if I wanted, you know, to go down the route of baby number three. It's possible.

[D]

And I think so much of it is the narrative. We're fed, like, like all of us were geriatric over 35. We're all, all these terms, you know, doctors telling us, and I've had it happen to my friends, you will never have kids. You were told something similar and you did. And like it's toxic and it gets so deep that we don't even realize. It kind of blocks us from what we know is like, possible. And so much of that is the narrative we're given. And that's why we have to be so loud about the optimism. What you can do, you know, you have a biological age and a chronological age. Sure, you might be on paper 45, but there's so much test, I mean easy tests you can do to say like you might be 35 actually in your biological age because you're doing all the right things, you're healthy. And I think we just need to step outside of like the narrative a little bit and trust our body, trust our gut. I mean, you have also taught us so many beautiful things. I do want to share one thing. We had the privilege when we came to your beautiful two day seminar and you sat with Kathy Perry, which might have been one of the most. Kathy Perry, Katy Perry, sorry, Christina Perry.

[B]

Christina Perry. There's a lot of Perry's and I'm happy, so it all gets missed. Wasn't that amazing?

[D]

Yeah, literally. I think that might have been one of my. The best interviews I've ever had the privilege of listening to. You touched us in such a deep way, both of you sharing your stories. But the one line that stuck with me is when you said that that baby sold it left, only knew me as a mother and I might be butchering it a little bit, but you left me with such a profound purpose for those two souls also that I lost and their purpose of coming in this world. And both of those losses, I will tell you, have taught me more in life than you can imagine. And so much of it I didn't realize until I also, you know, about a year and a half ago, started doing Kabbalah. And it's taught me so much about the meaning of these souls and what they came to guide me and their purpose was to guide me. And at the time it was just devastation and similar to you, the shame and the guilt that we all hold. And sometimes it's hard for people who are trying to conceive or being told this narrative. But that faith and that belief, if you can have it even in the hardest times will get you through. And I wish I now knew what I, you know, I wish I knew then what I know now. It would have helped us so much, and that's what we want to help people with.

[C]

With.

[B]

That's so beautiful. Well, for just to go back to that moment. Yeah. So when I was going through that process, I was told I went through a few different tests, and at the end of the day, it was determined that I needed to terminate the pregnancy because it would either be a stillborn or the baby would be terminal, because there was a hole in the brain and a hole in the heart. And it was just. That was just what it was. And so we scheduled the surgery, and I kept asking God, please just take this baby before I get there, because it feels so heavy on top of the fact that I have. I'm being asked to, you know, do this. I have to do this. Like, can I just have a miscarriage then? It was very intense. And so there were a few days I had to wait between knowing it and going in. And I spoke to this kabbalist in Jerusalem on the phone. And this beautiful wisdom that was given to me were two things. One, they said to me, listen, do you remember, like, when Abraham and Isaac go up to the mountain? And I'm like, yeah. And then the insight was, well, Isaac went to, like, makes me cry. Like, Isaac, like, chose to go, right? And we all know, anyone who's read the Bible kind of knows that story. And thankfully, you know, Abraham comes back with Isaac. But the point was that every soul has its own volunteer mission and signs on the dotted line for whatever the life is. They saw the movie before they chose to come, which is a very powerful, very important understanding of the world. And so I had to let go. I had to understand that whatever was happening, this was the soul path for this little being. And then the second thing which you just said was that, can you imagine that this baby's only understanding of reality was being with you, Kathy? So that made me cry. This is such a kind thing to say. And it's also just, like, a really beautiful thought that, like, you know, your energy, your spirit, your loving kindness, like, that's all it knew. Like. And, you know, we talk about in Judaism that we come to the world for our own tikkun. It's like, that's it. That's what, you know, the kabbalist is like, that's what this baby came to have, is a little bit of, you know, and that's it. Like, wow. And I was like, oh, my God. I was just, like, so unbelievably powerful. So. Yes. And for anyone who doesn't know, you could go back and listen to the episode with Christina Perry. Her epic story is truly epic. And the baby, it was like, you know, she was delivering the baby, and the baby came out not breathing. And the whole story is so beyond sad, but it's so beautiful what she did with it. And then she wrote that song, roses in the Rain, for that little baby. I'm so glad that you guys were there, because it makes so much sense that you would be there and that we talked about it. And, you know, when we were talking about it during that interview with Christina, I remember thinking, I don't know if everybody likes this. We're going kind of in depth into a pretty heavy story. And at the same time, I feel like when we talk about these things on the show, we get letters from people who say, thank you for making a space to talk about what is often unsaid. I'm really grateful to the two of you that you're really creating a whole world around what is often unsaid. Because I think we compare our pain to other people's, and then we think, well, who am I to even be sad? Other people are going through so much. So that's not helpful, though, for you as an individual. It doesn't help you heal or help you get through your life when you just deny yourself your own grief. Because there will always be someone who had it worse. That's, of course. And yet this is you having your experience, and you need to heal from it and move forward. I want to ask you guys about health in general, because it seems to me that what you're talking about, and you just alluded to it, Ronit, that it's not just about fertility. It's like your health. Right. Can you explain a little bit about why our mitochondria and why these supplements are a good idea regardless of whether you're having your baby? Or is that just me sort of overreaching?

[C]

Yeah. No, I think generally, just going back to our story, when we had our losses, we realized that there was something bigger happening with a state of health and fertility both. We know that men today have 50% less sperm compared to their grandfathers. We know that one in five people are experiencing infertility. And when we look at just the state of fertility as a whole, it's declined 1% per year. Women's fertility, men's fertility, and what we're seeing now Is that couples in generally are having less than two children. So the population is shrinking. I'm giving you this from like a super high level. So what's going on? I mean, of course people are choosing to have kids later in life, but the reality is, is that we're living in this modern world of a toxic soup with toxins that didn't exist 50 years ago. There's synthetic toxins in our water, in our food, in our personal care product, in our home products, what we're putting on our skin, all of these things in existence 50 years ago. 70% of our calories are coming from ultra processed foods that are made in a factory. The food is less nutrient today than it used to be. We know that to get the vitamin C value of what one orange was 50 years ago, you have to eat eight oranges. So much has changed. We're stressed. People are spending 92% of their time indoors. People are living with no community. They're not talking to people, they're online. They're doom scrolling. So, so what's going on is that there is a mismatch between our bodies and the environment that we're living in today because we were made to reproduce. And so how can you, you know, go about this mismatch? I mean, I know what I said is like very overwhelming, but there's actually a lot that you could do when we think about it from a high level. You could think about, okay, what are the things that are blocking your fertility and what are the things that are bo. Fertility. So the blockers, it's like the plastics, it's the, you know, nonstick pants. Think about your kitchen and your bathroom. How can you detox those places? Because oftentimes those are the most toxic places in the household. So getting more glass, stainless steel in your personal care products, it's not that hard. Today even Sephora has like cleaner beauty. I mean, I think like back when I was getting pregnant with Ed and nine years ago, like makeup and, and personal care products, they were like super granola. You can only get them at like Whole foods or, you know, and now you actually have really nice brands. So it's just paying attention to those things. It's movement, making sure that we're moving, we're sitting so much. So incorporating movement, getting a standing desk, you know, doing things and, but not overdoing it, right? Focusing on sleep. Sleep I would say is like sleep over, exercise, recovery, taking care of your body. And when we talk about doing all of these things, we say like, you're setting A foundation for a clean, pure, beautiful baby to come into your house. It's not just about like, okay, I do this for three months. Because by the way, the timeframe is three months. Take three months to improve, clean your environment, eat clean, focus on organic food. You know, the research shows that the Mediterranean diet is pro fertility in both men and women. But all you're doing is setting the foundation for a beautiful life with a child.

[D]

Goes back to a lot of like ancestral stuff, right? Like nourishing your body with the deep nutrients. Like she mentioned sleep, which none of us are prioritizing. And she said we're on screens and everything that's disrupting our sleep. Like really getting back to why you want to have a baby, investing in your relationship, investing in a little bit of maybe gratitude. You know, we created a journal at wenatal because we saw such a mismatch between the body and mind. We saw that so many of us are trying to check all the boxes and do the right things, but we're so stressed, myself included, at the corporate career. And so we created a journal to guide people, anyone who wants to start a family. But there's really three components about it, mostly about connecting you and your partner to ask the questions of things you guys want to get on the same page before the baby comes and do gratitude, which to me was something not inherent, I was very busy. Corporate stress, type A personality. And that three minutes of gratitude and jotting down loving thoughts for my partner, for my future baby, even for myself was sometimes so hard. But it starts to shift. It's a muscle that starts to shift. And it brought alignment to my own life. So I could say it personally, it has truly changed us. And as you know, the author of the journal is Lillian, a dear friend of ours. And ultimately we want to support mind and body and to your point about health and fertility, it's all connected. And one of our good friends, Dr. Casey means, always says like we treat our body like in pieces or so if we have an earache. But really you need alignment in the whole body. Health and fertility are linked. Everything we do, our mindset, it can help your overall outcome. And so we're so passionate about empowering you with the tools for, you know, supplementation for your body. The tools like the journal and anything, any education we can for our community because there's so much and sometimes our well intentioned doctors are not up to date on the latest research. They might have your best interest but they don't know what a big deal nutrition plays. So it is Very important for anyone listening to know that you have to guide your own journey, and you have to test your gut and do your own research. That's something I learned. And you can't just take for face value what maybe one doctor will say to you.

[B]

I mean, what you just said should be required listening. Everybody should hear those words. I hope that it's become more mainstream where people are hearing that now, but I know that it ruffles feathers because things become politicized, and. And this should not be political. What you just said should just be something that everyone cares about, has access to. And this is why, you know, for people who are like, why. Why do you post about Bobby Kennedy? That's such a. That's a real statement, you know? And I'm like, well, we were neighbors for years, and we would have these conversations about processed food and chronic disease and what's going on, and it had everything to do with that. Like, I was just listening, thinking, how is it that my kids go to Chick Fil A? How is it that the world is just consuming? I rem. Remember when I took my daughter home and we're giving her bottle feeding. I'm breastfeeding, and it wasn't making enough. So I was also supplementing with formula. And one night, I look, and the very first ingredient in the formula was corn syrup.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I literally, like, freaked out. I was like, corn syrup solids is what it says on, like, the main. And this was, like, the expensive, good formula, right? Like, the nicest one you can get. And I call my doctor, and she's like, oh, my pediatrician. She's like, oh, yeah, that's fine. It's like, fattening. It's good. And I'm like, what? This is, like, the main ingredient. This is what I'm shoving into her mouth. And so these were the conversations. And I would be talking to Bobby about these things, and he's like, no, it ain't good. Like, this is not a thing. Like, we need to be outdoors. Like, we need the stress to go down. We also need to eat clean food. And what you just said, about eight oranges to equal one orange. Like, the nutrition, what is happening? And the pesticides. And I asked Casey that. I said to Dr. Casey Means, if I'm overwhelmed, where do I start? There's so many things to do. And she's like, you cannot eat pesticides. Like, it is so bad for you. Like, just do that. Okay? Just do that. And then you think to yourself, how often do you actually care enough about that? Where you're making informed decisions about what you put inside your body. And the truth is this should just be an everybody conversation. This is like our life, it's our health. It doesn't make any sense why everybody doesn't have have this on top of mind and why our world is not going to mirror so that we can not be ill so that we can live longer and not just be in the name of the game of like what pill do I need to pop so my shoulder doesn't hurt? It's like that can't be effective.

[A]

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[B]

Soft.

[A]

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[B]

So do you recommend if somebody's listening and they're like all right, I want to get in on this, we need all where do they begin? Because I know you have a whole bunch of different places for people to start, like what would be like a basic regimen for someone wanting to get pregnant? And what's a basic regimen just for someone who wants to be in better health?

[C]

So I would say our prenatal, we have Wenatal together. Wenatal for him and for her is essentially like a basic multivitamin on steroids that's obviously tailored for fertility and tailored for sperm quality, but also generally a great prenatal. Like, why do you have to be like wanting to have a baby to put like the best nutrients in your body? So we take it. Even though my mom takes it. We all, you know, it's like a generally a great multivitamin. So I would say like, you know, Casey's perspective is like, don't eat food with pesticides. My perspective is like, the very least you could do. The lowest hanging fruit in general for people's health is to be on a good multivitamin and a good, like omega 3 fatty acid that reduces inflammation. And then of course, like if you're trying to conceive and you want to have and you're maybe older and maybe you had experienced loss, we have an egg quality plus product which is like that mitochondrial support that helps with improving egg quality before trying to conceive. So we have that one too. And now we also have a magnesium which everybody loves a good magnesium. Our magnesium has four types of magnesium in it. So it helps with like digestion and sleep and just calming the nervous system. And I also feel like everybody should be on a magnesium. That's just like me personally. But I would say wenatal.com is where they start. We also have a ton of free resources. Wenatal.com masterclass we have 11 experts on every topic that you want for fertility health, women's health, just fertility, 101 mindset, pediatricians that go into, you know, epigenetics and children. And then we will also make a special link for your community, we.comabundant. so if anybody shops with that link, they can get a free magnesium when they order weal.

[B]

I do love a good magnesium. I feel like it helps me sleep, it helps my whole body digest things. Let me ask you one last question, which is I've heard the sort of back of the envelope answer that like, well, don't take any of those things because your body won't digest it if it's like a multivitamin. Like you have to get it from food. So if you're not eating kale, you're not going to actually get the nutrition from a multivitamin. A is that true? And B, clearly you don't think it's true. So why does yours actually absorb what we need rather than what people say most vitamins, you just, they'll say you just pee them out. You're not even going to keep them.

[C]

Yeah, well, we got into the women's prenatal space because there was a huge need for us to get into the women's prenatal space. There are thousands of other prenatal brands out there and honestly we didn't really think initially that the world needed another women's prenatal. But when we looked at the ingredient quality, it makes a big difference. Our ingredients are bioavailable, which means that you can absorb them no matter what your biology looks like. Because folic acid is an example that a lot of, you know, people talk about. If you have an MTHFR genetic mutation, you cannot metabolize folic acid, you cannot process it into folate. So we natal has the bioavailable form. So it's, it's, this is like forms, dosages, form quality, fillers, binders. There are so many prenatals out there that have so many like fillers, colors, junk in them and it's just crazy. So ours is made with the purest ingredients which anybody can absorb. And unfortunately you just can't get everything from food. You can't. Even if eating for fertility was your full time job, you just can't because our soil isn't as nutrient as it used to be.

[D]

Yeah. And the PSA everyone needs to hear is that all prenatals, all vitamins, all supplements are not created equal. And so they might, a doctor might say, take a prenatal, they're all the same. That's not true. So back to doing your own research, looking at what's in it, looking behind the hood. Don't just believe the marketing, look at your ingredients. And also, if anyone likes to geek out, we share every ingredient and the clinical research behind every dosage and every grade and why it improves fertility. And oh, by the way, there's nothing in the other section, right. There's some supplements with paragraphs of additives, fillers, colors. And so that was one of the biggest things I learned along this journey, to not just trust the marketing, which I'm a marketer, so it's hard. You know, I believe in that stuff, but you really have to do your own research and know that it's not all created equal. The same way two pieces of steak, you could have a wagyu and you could have like crap and so it's so important to really understand and. And all these things we talked about should be just, you know, hopefully empowering and not overwhelming. We say, like, once you finish one thing in your household, try to find a cleaner version. Slowly swap out the ingredients in your kitchen to being more organic. But hopefully it doesn't feel like you need to throw out everything in your life all at once, but really just make more empowered and educated choices.

[B]

It's just awesome. And I'm so grateful that you guys are, you know, standing really on the front lines of this, and I'm hopeful that. That 10 years from now, you'll have blazed such a trail that so many people will know this is, like, commonplace information. So just thank you and tell everybody again where they can go to get started.

[C]

So go to wenatal.com abundant on social. We're at. We underscore natal, and you can find everything from social and from wenatal slash abundant.

[B]

It was such a good conversation in so many ways. I'm so grateful that the two of you came on. I feel like we really covered so much, and I think it's only half the conversation. It's like, I feel like we could have another conversation and maybe what we'll do, because I have a feeling people will really like it, is if people have questions, we can have a second part of the conversation. We can go a little bit deeper because there's so much to cover. But I really feel it's such a gift for me personally. So thank you so much.

[D]

Thank you, and thank you, Kathy, spreading our mission. And thank you for sharing your heartfelt stories, and we're so grateful for you.

[E]

That was such a beautiful conversation. Okay, here are the takeaways. Number one, no woman should feel like fertility is solely on her shoulders. It is a team sport and requires both partners to put the best foot forward. Number two, be loud about the optimism. Number three, step outside of the narrative and trust your body, trust your gut. Four, even in the hardest times, faith will get you through. Number five, Every soul has its own volunteer mission and signs on the dotted line for whatever the life is. Number six, Practicing three minutes of gratitude is a muscle that starts to create shifts. Number seven, you have the power to guide your own journey. Thank you for listening. I know there's a lot going on. I really appreciate that you're here. We have more great episodes on the way, so be sure to follow that show and Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you love to listen. And if you're loving these conversations, please leave a rating and a review I want to share a beautiful review that we got recently.

[A]

It says Nourishing for the Soul. I feel so excited and motivated. I want to be more and be better, and this show is providing the tools for me to grow abundantly. Thank you so much to Kat for that review. We're going to read more of these on the podcast, so please leave a review if you haven't yet and you might hear it on a future episode. Finally, if you want to be a part of what I'm doing, we have this incredible program called this Abundant Life and right now it is on sale. You can get in month to month for $97 a month and be a part of it. Or you can join our Mastermind level and all the details [e-mail] join I love you so much and I'll talk to you soon.