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- [00:00]
Michael Boudreau
This is a Cherish podcast and I'm your host, Michael Boudreau. I'll be taking you for an inside look behind the glamorous facade of the interior design industry at a time when every aspect of the business, from sourcing to trends to marketing to dealing with clients, is undergoing rapid change. It always surprised me over the years to learn how many interior designers had worked for Ralph Lauren at one point or other in their careers, whether as designers on store display, with client services on the fashion side, or even as retail associates. So many of the most talented designers I encountered had worked for the firm that I began to think that the company was running the Ralph Lauren University of Interior Design. If nothing else, the firm has a stellar HR department with a real eye for talent. This fall marks the 40th anniversary of Ralph Lauren Home and to celebrate the occasion, Rizzoli has just published a lavish book featuring all of Ralph Lauren's homes from New York to Jamaica to Colorado, as well as the history of his home collection, products and ad campaigns. So this seemed the perfect moment to look at Ralph's influence on interior design and how he has tapped into such a diverse range of styles yet always remains quintessentially Ralph. I am lucky to have with me today three stellar graduates of RLU to share their experiences working for Ralph Lauren, their thoughts on how he attracts and retains top talent, and how he has managed to succeed in home when so many other fashion designers have failed. First up is Elle Decor a list and AD100 designer Joy Moyler. In addition to her stint at Ralph, Joy has worked for several major architectural firms. Terry Despont, who sadly recently died and she was head US Designer for the Giorgio Armani interior design studio Studio. Her own work is influenced by her love of textiles, color and pattern and her rooms are filled with the kind of bespoke details often found in haute couture and the finest men's haberdashery and she currently writes a column for Veranda Magazine. Welcome Joy.
- [02:16]
Joy Moyler
Hello Michael. Thank you for having me.
- [02:18]
Michael Boudreau
Mark Cunningham established his firm in 2005 following a 15 year tenure at Ralph Lauren. Mark's masterfully layered interiors and updated takes on classicism and have put him on the best designer list of Elle Decor AD and Luxe. In 2019, Mark launched Marked, a line of select furniture pieces. He designed woven and printed textiles and vintage decor, found objects and art. Hello Mark.
- [02:44]
Mark Cunningham
Hi Michael, thanks for having me.
- [02:47]
Michael Boudreau
New York based designer Jenny Wolf draws inspiration from her southern roots and her travels in creating her vibrant layered rooms. After Several years at Ralph Lauren, where she worked in retail development and visual merchandising. She attended Parsons and Oakman, her own firm, in 2011. Her work has since been featured in virtually every shelter magazine. She was placed on Lux magazine's gold list and was named one of traditional home's top 10 new traditionals. She also operates a retail store, the Huntress, New York and Pound Ridge. Welcome, Jenny.
- [03:19]
Jenny Wolf
Thank you, Michael, for having me.
- [03:21]
Michael Boudreau
So I would love to get a sense from each of you what you did at Ralph Lauren, how you started there, and what you actually did and for how long you were there. So, Joy, why don't we start with you?
- [03:32]
Joy Moyler
I started at Ralph Lauren in 1998, and I was there for seven years as a project manager, working on domestic stores, doing design work. And because I just loved everything I was doing, I would sort of ask if I could rig mannequins and help with visual merchandising and essentially whatever else I can do, just because I enjoyed it and I enjoyed working across various creative platforms while I was there. So it was just a wonderful opportunity. Opportunity to work within different regions, within the country, domestically.
- [04:08]
Michael Boudreau
So you traveled?
- [04:08]
Joy Moyler
I traveled around the country, yeah. And it was wonderful. And I think the best part of the travel opportunity was that the teams had such great time together. And so if wherever we were, we just would have a blast. I don't know if we should say that, but it was always so much fun. You know, we had a car, we stayed in the greatest hotels, and we had wonderful dinners and lunches. And, you know, we would work till 2 in the morning if we needed to during installs and openings to get the store where it needed to be later, if Alfredo walked through and we needed to do even more tweaking, which is always great fun as well. But it was always just an extremely creative environment to be around, which just really made me look forward to being there every day.
- [04:57]
Michael Boudreau
Right, so when you say Alfredo, you're referring to Alfredo Paredes, right?
- [05:01]
Joy Moyler
Correct. Yes, I am.
- [05:02]
Michael Boudreau
He was in charge of, I guess, everything.
- [05:04]
Joy Moyler
Yeah. Creative director, store development across the board. Yes. Yeah. And I also got to work with Donald Nowicki, who was the art curator, who was always a blast and a great friend as well.
- [05:17]
Michael Boudreau
Right.
- [05:17]
Joy Moyler
Karen Elliott, the whole team was just amazing. Mark, you know, all these guys, you don't keep them in a box. They do what they do, you know, and there's so much to be learned through osmosis and just from being in the room with such incredibly talented people that I miss it to this Day, frankly, I really.
- [05:36]
Michael Boudreau
Well, I was going to ask how he manages to retain such great talent, but I think maybe you've already answered that question, Joy. Mark, what did you do there? How long were you there and what was your role?
- [05:45]
Mark Cunningham
I started in 87 at the newly opened Beverly Hills store. I was living in New York, but I was hired in New York to go out to Beverly Hills, which as I was at the time, was a big deal.
- [05:57]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah.
- [05:58]
Mark Cunningham
And the store was owned by Jerry Magnan, who had the first freestanding Ralph Lauren store. And I was there for three years and was a part of in store changes, windows, whatever, creative.
- [06:12]
Michael Boudreau
So all the store display, the setups, all of that.
- [06:15]
Mark Cunningham
Yeah. And then I wanted to come back and work for the corporation, so I swapped jobs with Mark Matasak, who was the window manager. That was a really great experience. I mean, I'd been doing it before, but anyway, like Joy was saying, just being a part of a team. And at that time, too, there was only the Mansion and there weren't as many stores. So you could kind of do whatever you wanted in a way. Like we would come up with let's do the fountain head windows or let's do whatever Chinatown, or we could just do whatever we could think of. And you learned, like lighting. I mean, sure, it was. You were in a little box, but just a group of people and, you know, working. We would leave sometimes at 9 in the morning, and in the stores you have to move the cases to get into the window. So you would end up coming out of a little hole.
- [07:12]
Michael Boudreau
You had to be young and limber, right?
- [07:14]
Joy Moyler
Yeah, that's for sure.
- [07:15]
Michael Boudreau
And Jenny, what about you?
- [07:17]
Jenny Wolf
So I joined Ralph Lauren in 2005. I was fresh out of living in the South. I had moved from Atlanta, Georgia, and I knew I wanted to work in fashion. And a friend of mine told me about a merchandise coordinator position for women's Black Label and collection. And I interviewed and I got the job. And the next thing you know, I'm in every major department store that housed women's Ralph Lauren shops, also in the window holes and dressing mannequins, doing trunk shows and seminars for sales associates and really driving the business. In those days, we were sales coordinators. It wasn't just visual. After about a year, my boss left her job, and the next thing you know, I took her position and then was managing merchandise coordinators all over the country and then traveling all over North America. At that stage, we were rapid fire opening stores at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue and In hotels. Sea island, the breakers at the Greenbrier. And I left in about 2010 to pursue a career in interior design.
- [08:35]
Michael Boudreau
Great. You know, one of the things that always amazed me about Ralph and I touched on this in my introduction, was how many different styles. Ralph Laurenholm, certainly. And also in his fashion line as well. You know, very urban. He has that French flair kind of thing. The bohemian, the. The rustic lodge look, you know, the very sleek, sophisticated urban look. And yet he manages it. Never seems phony when he does it. You know, it's a cliche to say that Ralph is a movie director, that he creates the alternate mise en scene, but, you know, it's a cliche because I think it's true. And God knows I've even written that and some of the articles I've written about Ralph Laurenholm. But how do you think that he is? I mean, obviously, I think he listens to his team. Like you guys when you were part of the team. I think he was open to outside influences, and I've heard this from other designers. But do you think that he just. How do you think he managed to take all of this and put his stamp on it? Like, Joy, what do you think?
- [09:36]
Joy Moyler
I've always just truly felt that Ralph Lauren is the epitome of storytelling, and the way that he does it is visually. And I think the thing that creates such lineage within the Ralph Lauren environment and the imagery is that it's all rooted in classical. There are classical elements that go throughout each of the sectors, whether it's sport, there's classic racing, you know, women's collection, there's always classic clothing. And there. There. It isn't a brand that lives through trends. It lives through classic elements. And I think those are prevalent in home collection, men's, you know, Purple Label, women's collection. It's a line that's carried throughout each and all of those business sectors and design silos. And I think that's what enables the brand to remain current and continue to prosper.
- [10:36]
Michael Boudreau
And Mark, would you agree? Because it does seem like Ralph returns cyclically. Like 10 years later, he'll suddenly focus again on country western or something that hasn't been at the moment. How do you think he manages that? And, you know, why do you think he's so successful at it?
- [10:54]
Mark Cunningham
Well, I also think he trusts his instincts and his gut, and I think he definitely listens to people around him. But there's so many things that he did before other people were even really doing it. Like, if he doesn't like something it doesn't happen.
- [11:08]
Michael Boudreau
It doesn't care if it's in fashion or trendy.
- [11:11]
Jenny Wolf
Yeah, yeah. He's so true to himself.
- [11:14]
Joy Moyler
I remember some home collections that were presented on 6th Avenue. And, you know, like Mark and Karen and all those guys, they were like killing themselves to get these rooms done. And then if he walked through and he doesn't like it, that room would not open.
- [11:29]
Mark Cunningham
Right.
- [11:30]
Michael Boudreau
And those room installations were, as a press person, going to see them. They were incredibly elaborate. I think people don't understand how detailed and thought through those rooms were. Whether it was supposed to be a French atelier or a country cabin up in the mountains. You would walk into those installations and you felt you were there. You know, definitely.
- [11:53]
Joy Moyler
You were immediately transported. Yes.
- [11:56]
Michael Boudreau
And I think that was something that was. And, you know, it's interesting, Jenny, Cause you worked on display, too. How much of display becomes design?
- [12:05]
Jenny Wolf
Well, I think all of it. I mean, I even say today when I'm designing a home, just if you're just the sofa and chairs, you're like a mannequin with a T shirt and jeans. Like, you have to add on all of the layers to style and give personality. And nobody does that better than Ralph Lauren. And, you know, the skills that we learned in something as simple as dressing a mannequin, it applies to not just your own personal style, but the homes and the worlds that we create for others.
- [12:35]
Joy Moyler
Yeah, he created lifestyle branding.
- [12:37]
Michael Boudreau
I think he certainly was one of the first. I would definitely agree. You know, and I think he probably did it better than anybody.
- [12:43]
Jenny Wolf
Experiential retail, you know, you walk in and you feel like you're part of a movie. You know, you're part of that real.
- [12:52]
Michael Boudreau
And do you think he thinks that through? Is it just instinctual, Mark? Because I remember when they opened the Rhinelander Mansion, and then I also was there when they opened the women's store across the street was a totally new building, but it looks as if it has been there since the 1850s. And I know that people criticize the company, saying they spend too much money. You know, why do they have to have such elaborate installations or whatever? But I think it's probably intrinsic to his brand. Wouldn't you agree, Mark?
- [13:20]
Mark Cunningham
Yeah, I definitely would. Yeah. It's just. He's not. He doesn't compromise. And, you know, I'm sure over the years, obviously there's been some compromises, but you don't even really. You're not even aware of them. I think they really. And I know it's been a while, but They've been able to take what starts, let's say here, and spread it all over the place. That's not easy. And everybody has different budgets, but it works, right?
- [13:47]
Joy Moyler
I think at heart, Ralph is a dreamer. And when he wants someone to walk into a Ralph Lauren environment, be it fashion, be it home, he wants you to dream, too. And he wants you to walk away feeling as though your mind has been blown. And that usually is the case. And he wants you to feel that that dream is attainable to you.
- [14:09]
Jenny Wolf
Putting all of that energy and emphasis into the stores is really important because of the. That is the touch point to the client. And you, you walk into the store and you're enveloped into whatever reality he's creating, and you want to be a part of it. And you know, that tends to lead to sales and creating your own world or taking a piece of that home with you.
- [14:34]
Michael Boudreau
Joe, I'd love to get a sense, I'd love to know from you if you think, because you know, the home cycle, furniture, fabrics, is much slower than the fashion cycle, and yet he does seem to be on point with that. Do you think it's harder for the company to juxtapose those two different cycles? You know, fashion moves very quickly, as we know, and there's two collections a year, and that's not true for home.
- [14:58]
Joy Moyler
Yeah, I mean, I think that if someone is whoever you like to wear, that's an expression of often what your home environment is. And I think if you are a Ralph customer and you look to the fashion seasonally and the collection seasonally, you're very much inspired by that. And of course, that is later infused into home, which is typically six months after the fashion environment. You'll wait for it because you love it and you want it and you see it. I want it, I see it, you know, and it just becomes like a part of your life and your lifestyle, and you're willing to wait for it. And sometimes you may forget that you even want it, but you see it. But I mean, this is something that happens, I think, with fashion brands who have appendages of home collections as well. You see the fashion first, home follows later. But you see it, you want it, you wait for it.
- [15:55]
Michael Boudreau
But a lot of fashion designers, home lines have not succeeded in the long term.
- [16:01]
Joy Moyler
This is true too. But I think again, if you are sort of a true fan of the brand, you'll continue to support. If you've had a positive experience, you'll continue to support it.
- [16:14]
Michael Boudreau
And I think it has to be a fashion brand. That's coherent enough and broad enough that it can translate. Like Raoul or Armani, for example. I mean, they have very clear visions of who they are and what they stand for. And I think if you're a lesser designer, not necessarily a lesser fashion designer, maybe an equally successful fashion designer, but it doesn't always translate to the home. And I think that's one of the fascinating things about Ralph in fashion.
- [16:41]
Jenny Wolf
You know, you're constantly wanting to change your look. You know, you might want to be in Jodh furs one day and, you know, wearing a ball gown the next, but in your home environment, it's a little bit more stable, and you're not changing it necessarily as fast as you are your wardrobe. So being able to walk into the store and have that timeless aesthetic is something I think the customer really wants and, you know, wants that longevity. And that's why he's been so successful.
- [17:11]
Michael Boudreau
Right. And it was interesting to me, looking through the book that's coming out this month. You know, it has all of Ralph's homes in it. Montauk, New York City, Bedford, Jamaica, Colorado. And they're all so different. And I think one of the things that people think is that you have to accumulate a lot of stuff. Like, we were all talking about layering rooms and creating the vision. But Ralph is very pure in his vision for each of these homes. The home in Jamaica doesn't look like the home in Montauk, which I actually had the thrill of going to see it before we shot it when I was at El Decoration. And, you know, that's kind of very laid back, almost 60s. I wouldn't say hippie, but kind of bohemian. Whereas Jamaica is very grand. They're both beach houses, but they couldn't be more different and couldn't respond more differently. And yet they are definitely Ralph. And, you know, the New York apartment is so sleek and modern, and Bedford is as British and layered as you can get. And yet they never seem. We talk about stage sets, mise en. They never seem phony. And is there a trick to that, Mark?
- [18:17]
Mark Cunningham
Well, I was gonna say. And they all feel appropriate or authentic to where they are.
- [18:22]
Michael Boudreau
That's true. That is really true. But I think it's like, you know, especially when you're somebody of Ralph Lauren's stature and success, you could do a lot of stuff, and he does a lot of stuff, but he never does too much. And that's what I find is so interesting.
- [18:41]
Jenny Wolf
Restraint.
- [18:43]
Michael Boudreau
Yes. Do you think that that was innate with him? Do you think he's learned it over the years. I mean, this is a man who started out making men's ties, you know, so how did he know? I guess he has very good dreams. Right, Joy?
- [18:56]
Joy Moyler
Very, very good dreams. And I think any of us, if we had an opportunity to have five or six homes, I think that they would each be different if they were in a particular region, because you're generally influenced by your environment. If I'm working on a project in Italy, I want that home to be representative of that environment. If it's in Paris, you know, you don't want an Italian house plunked down into a Parisian atelier. Right. So I think. I mean, Colorado, he doesn't want to look like his Fifth Avenue apartment. So if you have the opportunity to continue that storytelling and to live that dream, I think by all measures, you're going to seize that opportunity. Why? Because you can.
- [19:41]
Michael Boudreau
And I think he's probably a very good client. Go ahead.
- [19:44]
Jenny Wolf
I think what's so interesting is with so many different styles, it's just. It's so obvious that it's Ralph Lauren. And that's just a testament to how true he is to himself and his own personal aesthetic, which obviously can go in a number of directions.
- [20:01]
Joy Moyler
Yeah. But it remains clear. That direction remains very, very clear. And I think that editing is what's the difficult. Is, you know, the difficult thing to sort of navigate, like, how do you stay within that range where you continue to grow? But the thread remains common so that it's approachable to the consumer, and they identify it as yours without it being so outside of the realm of your brand and your imagery.
- [20:32]
Jenny Wolf
Hi, everybody. I'm Ana Brockway, co founder and president of Cherish, and I'm here to remind interior designers that our extended return policy is ending on October 31st. For a limited time, Cherish is extending our return window for trade members only from two to a full 14 days. Don't miss the opportunity to access the best return policy in the industry. It's time to get shopping. For more information, visit cherish.com trade that's C-H-A-I-R-I-H.com trademark.
- [21:09]
Michael Boudreau
Okay, I want to switch gears a little bit here. Now, you all work there, but now you, all three of you are very successful designers, and you manage your own teams and your own staff. So what are the lessons you learned from working at Ralph and the various areas that you worked in? What are the management lessons that you learned that you apply today? Jenny, why don't we start with you?
- [21:34]
Jenny Wolf
Hiring is one of the most important things. I think the reason why a company like this could grow to such success is that they really put a lot of emphasis on their people. And you can see that. I mean there are people that have worked there for 40 plus years. I mean, it's really incredible. I know in women's wear we had people that had been there from the very beginning. And I think also they really empower you and give you a lot of responsibility. Everyone that works there has a really strong work ethic and shares this creative vision and mission. And working with like minded individuals to a goal is an opportunity to, you know, really thrive in that environment. And they really allow you to do so there. And I think that's why the company has grown to the levels that it has and they really take care of their people. And that's a good lesson for us as managers too.
- [22:30]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah, I think that's crucial. Joy, what about you?
- [22:33]
Joy Moyler
More than anything, I think it taught me to trust people and to trust that creative people can do many, many things. You don't put someone in a box and say you're an architect, you only do architecture, you're an interiors decorative person, you only do that. That you let people grow and seize opportunities because everyone's coming in with a creative spirit and it's your to help people step outside of their comfort zone and do other things. And I was grateful when someone let me jump in during a store opening and help rig and be an extra pair of hands or help Donald Nowicki hang artwork or do something like that beyond my normal role and responsibility. And I think that that's really something that really beyond the hiring aspect taught me that once someone is there to let them do other things as well.
- [23:32]
Jenny Wolf
And they promote from within, which is also incredible.
- [23:35]
Joy Moyler
And they promote from within and to trust people's creativity and their participation. But I mean, more than anything from the human aspect of it, Ralph Lauren as a company just, I think, strengthened me as a person because three months after joining the company, my dad passed away quite unexpectedly. And the way that the company just supported me to that when I thought my life was over, many, many days to this day, to my family just means so very much. And particularly with going through Covid and the Pandemic to have a real responsibility to people that they are members of your organization and you treat them like a family. And you need to be aware of people's mental levels and states and give them whatever help that they may need and continue to enrich them and their lives as well.
- [24:33]
Jenny Wolf
Focus on Family, you know, I mean, it's born from a great family, and there's a lot of emphasis there.
- [24:41]
Michael Boudreau
Right. And Mark, you know, you left, become an interior designer, but now you have expanded. You have your furniture line. You also deal some vintage objects, and you have your beautiful textile line. You know, I think of you almost as a mini Ralph in a way, although at least it's from what I've seen of Mark. You don't have five different visions. You have one very particular vision. But were there things that you learned during your years at Ralph that you think about when you're dealing with creating your new products or when you're hiring, managing your team?
- [25:17]
Mark Cunningham
Well, I definitely agree that I'm very open with everyone in the office, and I really do believe that. And like Joy said, we could do. If you were willing to do it, you could do almost anything you wanted. I really believe in that. And I also really encourage. I don't care if people are right or wrong, if they show me something or bring me something. I just want them to feel comfortable in bringing whatever it is, because that's how you learn. Yeah. And to be a part of. And to expose yourself to as much as you can. And I feel like if you expose yourself, that's another way you learn. And being at Ralph was. It was constant exposure.
- [26:01]
Michael Boudreau
Well, I've always thought one of the most valuable things you can do to your team is to make them feel they're being listened to. Maybe they're not being agreed with all the time, but they're being listened to. And it sounds like Ralph and his teams were very much about that. And, I mean, clearly it is a firm with a vision. It's a company. It's a house that has its own vision. But I think it's been enriched by people like you and many other. As I said, I'm always surprised how many designers I meet who say, oh, well, yeah, I work at Ralph for a while, and I think that they have absorbed from that. And you guys and these other designers take away things from Ralph. And I think that's so great.
- [26:42]
Jenny Wolf
Even when we're hiring people to work for us. It's like you almost want someone from Ralph Lauren because you're like, you're one of us. Like, you get it. You understand the work ethic and the commitment and the creativity and the vision. And so there's something in that.
- [26:58]
Mark Cunningham
Well, I was going to say they're also. They're not holding your hand, per se, like you. You're just out there. And I just Think that's one of the best ways of learning anything, whether it's good or bad.
- [27:09]
Michael Boudreau
So they throw you in the deep end.
- [27:11]
Mark Cunningham
Yeah.
- [27:11]
Joy Moyler
In different countries and cities sometimes.
- [27:15]
Jenny Wolf
Figure it out.
- [27:16]
Michael Boudreau
Deep end in a language you don't speak, you know?
- [27:18]
Joy Moyler
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Michael Boudreau
Go to.
- [27:19]
Joy Moyler
Go to Denver, figure it out. Get to Aspen, you know, figure it out.
- [27:24]
Jenny Wolf
But that trust is so empowering, and I think that's why so many people are successful. Come out of that space.
- [27:32]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah. I think. And I get the sense from younger people that work for different companies, that kind of trust and that kind of listening is not happening in a lot of places.
- [27:43]
Joy Moyler
And I think it's not the norm.
- [27:44]
Michael Boudreau
It's not the norm. And I think, listen, we're not going to transform corporate America here. But I do think designers listening, these are really valuable things to think about in terms of their own staffs and teams and putting together. You know, working with creative people is not always the easiest. And hiring, as you were saying, Jenny, is so crucial and so difficult. And I've hired some wonderful people in my day, and I've hired a couple of not so wonderful people in my day. It's very hard to tell. But I want to get a sense from you guys. This is a strange question. You know, Ralph has such a, as we've been saying, such a complete vision, and it's an encompassing vision, I always say, all these different styles. So when you guys went out on your own, did you feel valuable as that was? Was it difficult for you to articulate your own visions? Like, Mark, why don't we start with you?
- [28:38]
Mark Cunningham
Well, first of all, when I went out, I kind of always avoided what I'm doing now just because I'm very quiet in the interim. I opened the store in San Francisco, and really this happened because of a good friend of mine who I met at the Beverly Hills opening, and she was an interior designer, and one thing just led to another and she was moving offices and said, why don't you share an office? And that's really how. I didn't even go to school for it or.
- [29:12]
Michael Boudreau
So you went to Ralph Lauren University.
- [29:14]
Jenny Wolf
Yeah, that's it.
- [29:14]
Mark Cunningham
Yeah. I mean, I was one of those kids that was always moving things and doing all that. But, yeah, I mean, luckily I have people that can fill what I'm not good at. But I don't even remember what the question was now.
- [29:27]
Michael Boudreau
But anyway, it's like, was it hard for you to forge your own vision coming out of Ralph, which has such a particular, so to speak?
- [29:37]
Mark Cunningham
It was a way to Kind of stuff my feet into it.
- [29:42]
Michael Boudreau
And March is a legendary store as well. I mean, I can't tell you how many people tell me, oh, go to March. Go to March. They bought this in March, you know, so, you know, good. You went from one good thing to another good thing. But now you're on your own. And, you know, you're designing fabrics, you're. You're designing furniture. Do you think this. Does it ever come to you and say, oh, I shouldn't do this is true Ralph or this isn't Ralph enough? I don't know. I don't. You know, I'm not a designer, so I don't understand the process.
- [30:11]
Mark Cunningham
I don't think. I don't feel like what I've done, says Ralph.
- [30:17]
Michael Boudreau
No, I don't either. But was it hard for you to, like, distill your vision away from his?
- [30:22]
Mark Cunningham
I don't know. That's a good. I'll have to. The one thing I was gonna say is I. And maybe this is because of Ralph, too. I love not just doing one thing and all the different. Cause it's all about where it is and who it is. You know, who you're working with and where it is and what they're looking for. And that's probably something I came out of there.
- [30:45]
Jenny Wolf
I think it's more interesting to kind of look at. You're opening a store, and you're filling it with all the things that you love, and you're not in thinking Ralph Lauren. You're thinking about yourself and your personal style and what you think the general public would like. And then kind of going back and being like that is very rough. I can see where my education and my experience working for the firm has. Is reflected in my personal design. I think it's more so that it's.
- [31:17]
Michael Boudreau
Like kind of sometimes you only look back retrospectively. Yeah. And your store is full of beautiful things, Jenny. But it's not. I wouldn't walk in there and saying, it's not rough. No. But I think that's an achievement. That's why I'm saying I'm curious about the process, how you do that. Like, Joy, when a client comes to you, you to design something, I mean, and you've been trained by the best. God knows you have such an impressive resume. But how does the Joy Moiler look evolve?
- [31:47]
Joy Moyler
Well, I mean, I worked at John Celadino. He has a very specific vision. Thierry Despond, of course, very specific. Giorgio Armani, Very specific. But I think if there are any, they're all Wonderful designers, of course. But with respect to pieces that I can still acquire easily and pieces that I still love from, you know, working at Ralph Lauren and just continuing on, like, even this glass, I mean, I just love this modern glass. You know, I use it in all my projects because I love it, because I love it, and it feels great in the hand. So I think when there are things that you love, you tend to go to them. But I don't have everything in the project isn't Ralph Lauren, of course, unless that's something that a client knows that I worked there, and they particularly are fond of that style. And I actually did do a golf resort in Moscow. And the directive was, the brief really was that they wanted a very Ralph Lauren Americana environment. So we did use a lot of Ralph pieces there. But generally speaking, if I infuse a project with Ralph stuff, it's basically because I like, you know, I like it and the client likes it as well. But you don't go in trying to duplicate a Ralph Lauren Aspen house in a home that's in Italy. I do a lot of European projects, and so I prefer to sort of have that culture infused, the design direction. Because we do have clients that we have to, you know, work with what they like. We can't just put our own independent stamp on everything that we do.
- [33:32]
Michael Boudreau
Right.
- [33:33]
Joy Moyler
But, yeah, I use Ralph priesses whatever I can.
- [33:35]
Michael Boudreau
Right. And I mean, the lighting, the furniture, I mean, it's applicable to so many situations, you know, and global settings.
- [33:44]
Joy Moyler
Yeah.
- [33:45]
Michael Boudreau
And I guess that's part of the genius. I mean, you know, he's kind of like Madonna. All you have to do is say Ralph, you know, and people know what you mean. It's a one moniker star here. But at the same time, to maintain that, as we know, achieving success is one thing, maintaining it is another. And I think what's impressive is that he keeps finding young talent and absorbing from them. And you guys learned and made such success of yourselves based on a lot of what you're training, not just Ralph, but what Ralph, what you learned at the company. And I think that's really kind of amazing. And when you look through the book, you know, the whole history of forty years of the ad campaigns and the collections and the groupings and how broad he is, he's kind of singular that way. And I guess my last question for each of you is, do you think there will ever be another Ralph? Is it possible? Would the world allow that to happen? I mean, we've been so. The world is so diversified. Social media do you think there will ever again be a possibility for a design, even a fashion designer or an interior designer, to achieve that kind of influence?
- [35:00]
Joy Moyler
Many have tried. Many have tried.
- [35:05]
Michael Boudreau
Many have tried, but. And, Jenny, you were shaking your head no.
- [35:11]
Joy Moyler
No.
- [35:12]
Jenny Wolf
I mean, there'll be other iterations of designers that build empires, but he is, what I believe, the founder of American design, and I don't think that can be replicated, you know, at this stage. Obviously, there's many of us, you know, present company included, that will go on to have our own legacies, but there's only one Ralph.
- [35:39]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah. And I mean, you know, you're great American decorators, God knows, you know, Parrish, Hadley and all that, but nobody has done it on the mass level, the broader level. The way Ralph Lauren has managed to do that and to make people dream that way, to make his dreams become other people's dreams, is kind of amazing. Mark, what do you see next? Do you see another successor? Do you see.
- [36:00]
Mark Cunningham
Well, I was gonna say, too. And to be so consistent, because there's other brands that somebody comes in and totally changes the brand, but really just.
- [36:12]
Joy Moyler
Growing that media brand at the right time and just expanding that with the website and just all of that stuff, I think was absolutely wonderful.
- [36:23]
Michael Boudreau
And I think the dream Ralph would be the last person to say, I did this all on my own. I mean, even in the acknowledgments of the book, it's like a kind of amazing list of people that he thanks and, you know, has worked on his. On the fashion and the home section. I mean, it's an amazing lineup of talent. Like, that's what we're saying. We should all replicate their HR department. But I think that what you were saying about the Team Joy is an important lesson to any designer. We've all touched on that and here. And that I think letting creative people be creative, it sounds so simple, but it certainly is not. And clearly his firm, his company, the house is whatever you want to call it, is clearly genius at that, you know, so. Okay, one final question. What do you miss most about your years from working at Ralph Lauren? Mark, let's start with you.
- [37:18]
Mark Cunningham
I think the groups of teams, I guess, the variety of things that you could do, and there was no limit. I know. I keep going back to that because I feel like if you wanted to do it, you could pretty much do it, and I think that's a real positive thing.
- [37:37]
Michael Boudreau
Right. Right. Jenny, how about you?
- [37:41]
Jenny Wolf
The sample sales. No, just kidding.
- [37:44]
Michael Boudreau
That's good.
- [37:45]
Jenny Wolf
I do miss those sample sales. No, I just Think the team coming together for an installation, whether it's opening a shop or the fashion show, the excitement of that and being a part of it, and it brings tears to your eyes when you're part of these big things. And it's nice when it's on someone else's dime, too.
- [38:07]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah, exactly. And, Joy, what about you?
- [38:10]
Joy Moyler
Of course, the teams. But, you know, at 980 Madison, we had this big black and white checked floor and the corridors were long, and it was like walking. People would walk up and down the road, you know, the walkway there, and the music would be blasting, like on the Friday, and it was like a Runway. And. And you would have folks just acting up and voguing on the Runway. You know, I thought that was hilarious. The Eminem bowl, you know, that was really quite amazing. M&MS.
- [38:40]
Jenny Wolf
And effort.
- [38:42]
Joy Moyler
Yeah, the 4:00 MOS and M, you know, treat. And just. I mean, it was just hilarious. When we traveled together and we would just have a great time and we would always look out for one another. I think that that was an absolutely crucial element that shouldn't be overlooked, is that when we were on the road, we were really making sure everybody was okay. And, you know, it wasn't just like, oh, go to your room. Bye, see you tomorrow. It was the group dinners and just enjoying ourselves and having a good time and being productive and being proud of what we were doing.
- [39:16]
Michael Boudreau
Well, I want to thank my wonderful guests, Joy Moiler, Mark Cunningham and Jenny Wolf. And I guess we really all salute Ralph Laurenholm on its 40th anniversary. And. And let's hope there's 40 more. Definitely.
- [39:30]
Jenny Wolf
Sure.
- [39:31]
Joy Moyler
Yeah.
- [39:31]
Michael Boudreau
And thank all my listeners. Thank you for listening to the Cherish Podcast. You've been listening to the Cherish Podcast, brought to you, of course, by Cherish, which was recently voted by the readers of USA Today as the best place to shop online for furniture and home decor. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell a friend or colleague. Or better yet, go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. We appreciate your help in spreading the word and we would love your ideas for future episodes. Please email us@podcasterish.com the Cherish podcast is produced by Britta Muller and engineered by Hanger Studios in New York. Until next time.