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- [00:00]
Michael Boudreau
This is the Cherish podcast and I'm your host, Michael Boudreau. I'll be taking you for an inside look behind the glamorous facade of the interior design industry at a time when every aspect of the business, from sourcing to trends to marketing to dealing with clients, is undergoing rapid change. Mary McDonald is a native of Los Angeles, but she's also a student of the world. So perhaps it is not surprising that she has managed to fuse the exuberance of Hollywood Regency with an indefinable, understated Parisian chic. Her fashion background, her love of drama, and her innate sense of style all come into play in her richly imagined, graphic and colorful rooms that are also ultimately comfortable. Yes, her rooms make for great photos, but they also make for great living. She also designs fabrics, wallpapers, trims and tapes for Schumacher, rugs for Patterson Flynn, lighting for Robert Abbey, and furniture for Chadduck. She has been featured in virtually every major shelter magazine. And she recently designed a dazzling bedroom for the Kips Bay Show House in New York. And did I mention that she became a big TV star? I'm so pleased that she's here to talk about her evolution as a designer, her new collection for Schumacher, and recent changes in her life that have her spending far more time on the East Coast. Welcome, Mary.
- [01:27]
Mary McDonald
Thank you, Michael. This is fun.
- [01:30]
Michael Boudreau
This is gonna be fun. So, Mary, I would love to start for you to talk a little about your background because, you know, I don't know that much about your background. I've always seen you as a full blown star. So I know you grew up in Los Angeles, but you were not from a showbiz family, is that correct? Not a movie family.
- [01:46]
Mary McDonald
No, not at all. Lawyers and bankers. We did know a few show folk, but I'm not. No, not Hollywood at all. In fact, it was kind of unhollywood. I grew up in Brentwood before. It's pretty Hollywood now, but it wasn't really super Hollywood at all. I'd have to say it reminded me growing up, it's like a suburb in Connecticut, which doesn't probably ring true for many people now.
- [02:16]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah, because I think people forget that la, you know. Yes, it was always the movies and tv, but there's accountants, there's lawyers, there's all kinds of people who live in this city.
- [02:26]
Mary McDonald
I guess they do. Yeah. It wasn't even Hollywood at all. I mean, yes, I grew up with people whose parents were. I remember when I was little and there was a girl in my class and her name was Louise Dorsey. And my mother would say to me, you know, her father is Engelbert Humperdinck now. God. I had no idea who Engelbert Humperdinck was and never did until I was an, like, older person. I was like. I think I went to school with his daughter. Did my mom make that up? Her name was Louise Dorsey. And then I looked it up. I don't know her. I think it was fourth grade. And I was like, that's right. That is really his daughter. So it was always things like that.
- [03:08]
Michael Boudreau
Peripheral kind of, but interesting kind of.
- [03:10]
Mary McDonald
I mean, they might have been right in front of you, but I didn't have a Hollywood family that hung out in Hollywood.
- [03:19]
Michael Boudreau
Right, right. So. But now you started out in the fashion world, and it's interesting. You did hats. You were a milliner.
- [03:26]
Mary McDonald
For a while I was a milliner. Which.
- [03:31]
Michael Boudreau
How did that happen?
- [03:32]
Mary McDonald
I went to. Well, my mother told me I couldn't go to design school right away. I had to go to college because, I don't know, she just didn't see it as real or something. So I went to bu, studied art history, and then I went to Parsons in New York. Although, funny enough, I never finished, actually. But I studied fashion. Fashion was what I really loved. It actually is kind of my first love. It's such a difficult business, though. I did not intend. It wasn't like my dream to be a milliner. I just started doing this thing when I was young on the side as a fun thing, because it was the 80s. And when I think about this, it sounds so crazy. Like, everybody. It was a fashion thing for quite a few years, five years, where people wore hats and it wasn't just one person wearing a hat. It was like a big fashion moment where there would be crazy hats that people would wear. So I just started making these on the side because I was always creative. Since I was little creative with my hands, it was kind of a fun thing for me. So I figured out how to get a hat blocker downtown. And my friend's mother owned this really chic store she had just opened called Madeleine Galet that sold only European designers, which was kind of more unusual back then to import them. Her husband had owned something called Gallet, which was kind of like Maxfield's in Los Angeles. So there was very few stores like this. And she put them on consignment. They kind of went like hotcakes for some reason, because they were one of a kind. And it was really just a creative outlet for me. And stylists started to Take them on photo shoots. And they ended up in magazines. And people started calling me. It wasn't that I intended, like, I just want to be a milliner. It just was one aspect of fashion that I happened to do just really organically. Like, people ended up parsons. Yes, but it wasn't like.
- [05:42]
Michael Boudreau
So you moved back to la? You had moved back to la.
- [05:45]
Mary McDonald
Yes, but I did. But yes, when I started this, I moved back to la and this just sort of took off. And I was 23 and I was really intending to go get more into clothes, but this just happened and it was working. And like, I sold all over. I ended up with a rep. And they were really expensive, though. I mean, they were like $1,000.
- [06:08]
Michael Boudreau
They.
- [06:09]
Mary McDonald
They were one of a kind and beautiful. They weren't all one of a kind after I got a rep. But, I mean, I was so excited, I have to say. It just. I was in Bazaar and Vogue and I got myself. I had a profile in Bazaar when I was 23. So you can only imagine. I was just like, you were living the dream. I was like, living the dream. I mean, I have to say I probably peaked. I mean, I was so young. So that went on through my 20s. And I did also move back to New York. But at the end of my 20s, I was feeling sort of lackluster about it. I was like, this wasn't really like. And I saw a niche. It was such a niche. And I wasn't even a big enough weirdo in the niche. It was fun, actually. It was so exciting in my twenties to discover all these things. And the fashion district and there was a millinery district in New York. So I did. I actually lived in New York in my 20s, back and forth. But I was a little. Found it a little lackluster. I wasn't really wanting to grow it to be Eric Javits. So I had a few years where I was like, do I just quit this business and go. I interviewed, I remember, with Buffy Birotella at Ralph Lauren. Cause I was friends with Joel Silver, who was the director. I mean, keep in mind, I wasn't in Hollywood, but I had so many friends at this point in my 20s that were agents. And, you know, things are actually easier when you can call someone, you know, and bring the goods when they open the door. So I had cared about my apartments ever since I was in college. My dorm room from decorating my first apartment. That's like, kind of sad now that I look at it. To really kind of having decorated apartments before people did because, you know, when you're young, the people just had a futon. But my mother also gave me paintings, and so I had help, but I was really willing to do whatever it took. Since I was young and in my later 20s, I lived with someone that I ended up being with for years and years. And we had a house and it was fully decorated, but I figured out how to do things on a budget. I was young and I was given antiques by my family. So someone asked me, would you ever consider helping me with my apartment? It was my friend Caroline Andoja, who was the PR person for Robert Clergerie. The bag and shoe person.
- [08:43]
Michael Boudreau
Right, the shoe guy. Right.
- [08:44]
Mary McDonald
And she had this penthouse apartment in the El Royale, if anybody knows. It's an old Hollywood building that kind of has lots of famous people live in it. It's really grand and from the 20s. And she had said, would you help me? And it always interested me decorating. So I had this dovetail thing that was happening because I was always interested in decorating. It just was. I hadn't thought about doing it as a career.
- [09:12]
Michael Boudreau
Right.
- [09:13]
Mary McDonald
So people started to ask me and it didn't take. Like, I just have to say, how old was I? Was I, like, 35? It was 20. Well, I'm not even gonna let anyone do the math now. I'm just like, oh, oh, I'm in my early hundreds.
- [09:31]
Michael Boudreau
I didn't ask.
- [09:33]
Mary McDonald
I know. I was like, what are you doing?
- [09:38]
Michael Boudreau
Cause it seemed like in the 80s, there was a lot more crossover, that there were people, you could do different things. You know, you could be in the fashion business and then work on a movie. You could make hats and then start sort of decorating. It seemed like there was.
- [09:51]
Mary McDonald
Well, that's true. But this was the 90s. By the time I started decorating for people, it was the 90s. So I had been doing this a little less than a decade, the hat thing. But I had decorated for myself. So I was always working on these creative things that were really just the organic part of it. So what had happened was I did a few decorating jobs and then I had finished this house up Kings Road that I really bought to just flip. Cause I lived somewhere else with my ex. But I ended up owning it for 20 years. And a friend of mine who was a production designer, Richard Sherman, he said House Beautiful called me, or House and Garden called me and wanted to see if there's any houses I would recommend them publishing. But I was decorating. I just hadn't figured out, like, oh, I'm supposed to be really gung ho doing this. I was still just trying it. Well, Ingrid Abramovich, we laugh about this. She's always like, I discovered you. And I was like, well, I still had to do the work, Ingrid. But it's true. He sent her in just all these pictures, and they ended up putting it on the COVID and gave me the, well article. I actually really love this article still. It's one of my favorite. It kind of turned into something bigger from there.
- [11:10]
Michael Boudreau
Gotcha. So is that when you started to think, oh, I could do this as a profession?
- [11:14]
Mary McDonald
I think I thought it a little bit before because people were paying me, but I was busy trying to figure out. But my aunt was also a decorator when I was little. So I was used to going to the Blue Whale and seeing bags of fabric. Like, I remember this as a child. How glamorous I thought these sample bags were. Literally, I thought they were so glamorous. And I remember the Brunswig and Fee checked bag. It was black and white checked with the red Brunschwig and Fee. So I had this thought that, well, I can do this. I just didn't really know I had to learn. Oh, I actually, you know Key hall, that runs Countenance out, of course. I went to high school with Key Ah Kee, and I went to high school. For a brief moment, I worked for her mother, Mary Hall. It was just an odd job. I was terrible. Mary was like, you're terrible. But it wasn't. It was just. I was not. I just wasn't very efficient. So it was like I'd been exposed to this. And I think I might have called Kee's mom when I first doing this, asking her, you know, how do you mark things up? Like, I couldn't. There's so many logistics on people. And it has a business. A business that has nothing to do with having good taste or style. Like, nothing, right?
- [12:32]
Michael Boudreau
And I think people forget that. I think a lot of people outside think, oh, you're just at the D and D building, going, right, riffling through beautiful fabric, saying, I want this, I want that. But, of course, as we know, it is a business. It's a complicated business. You know, billing and shipping and all that boring stuff.
- [12:47]
Mary McDonald
It's really more that than anything else, which is really what it is. So you better just enjoy that little bag of fabric that seemed so chic on the front end, right?
- [12:57]
Michael Boudreau
So now, when you were starting out and doing, you know, starting out, doing your friends, places, and people were starting to hire you did it seem to you that you had to come up with your own aesthetic? Because I think of you as having a very particular aesthetic. I mean, it has evolved, and we'll talk about that. But I think, you know, it was kind of like you took tradition, sort of gave it a boot in the ass. You know, you brought in a lot of color. You brought in graphic elements, you know, and was that something deliberate or was that just an expression of your personality you didn't think about?
- [13:28]
Mary McDonald
Well, both. It's deliberate. No one may. There are particular things that people consider my style, but they're really not only my style. They just hap the things that style seemed iconically me, not to make myself an icon, but just say, you know, iconic to just me were something that I was feeling at the time I wanted to do. I wanted to see these bold, graphic, overscaled floors. In particular, something overscaled with something traditional, like florals. It was just actually what was organically happening for me. And the only reason people got to see it is there are a select group of people that let me do it. My entire career, I've had people that just want such a teeny bit of it that I always have my filter. I can only work through my filter, but I'm really more catering to what they want.
- [14:27]
Michael Boudreau
Right. Of course, the client is crucial. You've got to make the client happy.
- [14:31]
Mary McDonald
Yeah, people don't. There are people that say, do your thing, but it's really. To me, that's kind of unrealistic. I don't even want to just do my thing because they'll be shocked if they're not part of it. And I want them to be happy with it. But the most open people get kind of the best result because I can actually be creative and do the things that I can do that are specifically me best. You know, people sort of have a look that might define them, but they might have such a broader range. I have other work. People just don't think of it as mine.
- [15:10]
Michael Boudreau
Right, No, I understand. And I'm not trying to pigeonhole you, because I know you've done some very understated, elegant houses. I mean, but I do think that people think of you and in this age of social media, even more so people look at the very. That's why I said your rooms aren't just for making great photos. But, you know, you do look great on Instagram, your rooms. And I think people sort of think of that that way.
- [15:33]
Mary McDonald
I am a little dramatic. I am a little dramatic by nature. I Like things that look kind of like movie sets, you know, I see people's work where it's so tasteful and so pretty and just subtle. Everything is subtle and patrician, but it just stays that way. There's no oomph. I personally want. I gotta throw in a weird pedestal and earn. I like things that are out of a movie, like an old movie. But that's an actressy side of me that wants to be like, let's make this kind of glamorous. Kind of like, I always really want to throw a ball gown on, but I'm kind of sturdy, so I could get on a tractor. It doesn't make any sense to me either, trust me.
- [16:19]
Michael Boudreau
Because I was going to ask you, if you look to the movies and, you know, where do you get your inspiration? I mean, I think of you as sort of that glamour of, you know, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers movies, a little Dorothy Draper, those kind of elevated, aristocratic country clubs, you know, sort of graphic things. So were you aware of that at the time? Did you do homework? Did you get research? Or was it just something kind of instinctual that moved you in that direction?
- [16:43]
Mary McDonald
Well, I kind of grew up around old school decorating. So I grew up around marble urns on pedestals in different styles. Like, my grandmother was very. She was actually pretty uptight, but she had sort of. I kind of grew up around some of it and some of it. I was a much more willing to stand out kind of person than the women I grew up around.
- [17:09]
Michael Boudreau
What's it about fitting in?
- [17:10]
Mary McDonald
Part of it was just what I was exposed to. My father is British, so we would go to Europe when I was little. Since I was little, I went into castles and things that were not really, like, limiting in kind of an American local way. So I think it was kind of. I didn't intentionally pick one thing, but I was always drawn to. Even since a little girl, I was drawn to things that seemed kind of magical and glamorous and fairytaleish. So I can't say there's one thing it's not like, oh, there's this one movie once. Something is very dramatic. Even when I look at something as just tasteful and masculine as Bill Blass, there is something dramatic about the commitment in his apartments and homes in a very masculine way. I use the word glamour, but it's not really glamour. I don't know what a masculine word for that would be.
- [18:18]
Michael Boudreau
Well, I think it was.
- [18:20]
Mary McDonald
Gets a thesaurus, you know, like Bill Blass.
- [18:22]
Michael Boudreau
I mean, those rooms, they were studied they were comfortable. They were studied, and they were. It was presentational in a way. You know, everything was in a perfect spot that you just made you see it. And even though the fabrics were subtle, the colors were very subtle, it was like sculptural. It was like an installation in a way. So in that sense, it was dramatic. You know, it was definitely thought out.
- [18:45]
Mary McDonald
I think it might be that. It might be that. But I was exposed to books on castles, and I do love a country English home that is chalked with old paintings, old furniture, layers of color, molding. But no one really wants that. I mean, unless you grew up with that. So I would have to say that still inspires me. I have a huge library of books. But I can just take one element and say, you can have this crazy English bed, and then we'll make the rest where you be wondering if your neighbors have it. You know, people want it. People want their own thing, but at the same time, they kind of. They do kind of want to fit in.
- [19:34]
Michael Boudreau
I know I used to say. I said, you know, people would say, well, what are you looking for when you want to publish a project? And I'd say, well, you know, most of your. Most designer clients want what their neighbors have, but a little bit better. But when you got that client, and that's what we were talking about, collaboration. When you get that client that pushes you and wants you to do better, go beyond that. That was what the projects I wanted to see, you know, and I think that's just a human thing. Most of us want to fit in, like you were saying. But, you know, people like you, designers like you, who push that, even in your own homes and in your work, that changes what fitting in means. You know, suddenly you can have a lot of color, and other people have color and they're fitting in, but there's a lot more color. There's a lot. A little that drama. And I think, you know, I love elegance and restraint, but after a while, it gets a little boring.
- [20:26]
Ana Brockway
Hi, everybody. I'm Ana Brockway, co founder and president of Cherish, and I'm here to remind interior designers that our extended return policy is ending on October 31st. For a limited time, Cherish is extending our return window for trade members only from two to a full 14 days. Don't miss the opportunity to access the best return policy in the industry. It's time to get shopping. For more information, visit cherish.com trade that's C-H-A-I-R-I-S-H.com trade.
- [21:04]
Michael Boudreau
I think that what you do is take those kind of traditional elements and make them very well, I think very California. But in the sense of California as what everyone in America wanted, the California dream that everybody wants. Because you've done a lot of work on the east coast and all across the country. But I think that you bring this element of, I don't know, indoor, outdoor color, youth, energy that people really respond to.
- [21:31]
Mary McDonald
Well, thank you. I think sometimes I might rely on a strong color kind of unintentionally. It's just natural for me to want to make a color is very emotional. It really affects you when you go into a room that's a strong color, even if everything is all the same color. I remember Asante Wolf did. I don't know if you knew this, this all red room that was at a house beautiful show house in California 20 years ago. And you know, he's not known for a color.
- [22:08]
Michael Boudreau
No, he's known for white.
- [22:09]
Mary McDonald
He did this thing. He did an entirely red room. Every single thing was red in it. The furniture was red. I think the rug was red. It sounds kind of weird, but it was so magnificent. And it still looked just like him is the weird thing. It didn't look like someone else did it. But my point being was that it had a whole different emotional flavor to it because of red. I mean, colors actually really do physiologically affect you and your brain and how you see feel. They bring emotions up. They do things to your neural pathways, certain colors. And I think I probably like the drama of coming into something that's either so yummy with colors even so soft, but it's just put together like a painting or just so strong.
- [23:05]
Michael Boudreau
Is it a harder sell with some clients color? You know, it's a little riskier.
- [23:10]
Mary McDonald
It can be. I had a client where I had to promise I would pay, I would pay to paint her living room back if she didn't like it. Which I don't usually force people like this. But it was charcoal gray. The whole living room. It was a really big room and the accent was lemon yellow and like creams. And she was terrified of it. Cause it really was dark charcoal gray. But the room was huge and airy and light with cream millwork everywhere. It didn't seem. It didn't really seem heavy. I mean, I won only because it was successful. But I do have to talk people into things sometimes. Except I have my too faced makeup clients. They will go for any color. That's what's the best.
- [23:59]
Michael Boudreau
They're featured in this month's architectural pages. Is that correct?
- [24:04]
Mary McDonald
Well, actually, it's El decor.
- [24:05]
Michael Boudreau
El decor. El decor. I got that wrong. I should have got that wrong. Yes.
- [24:09]
Mary McDonald
They will go for colors, right? I mean, and actually, it's fun for me because most people will let me have a colored room. But that's when it's really fun, when someone lets you do things that push an envelope. And not everybody does that. So, you know. But it's fun having a range of work. I have a client, which you'll be shocked, that only likes white and natural.
- [24:32]
Michael Boudreau
And yet they came to me.
- [24:33]
Mary McDonald
Well, you haven't seen this yet. They came to me because I'd worked on historical homes, and they lived in a really historical registered home in Palm Beach. It actually was shot by Veranda. It will come out soon. And it really, like, she could do a room that has some navy, maybe some chocolate, but she likes all white. So then the challenge on me is, how do I make this? You know, when you're dealing with all white, I think it might even be a little harder because you've got to make things interesting. So you've really got to look at silhouettes and textures and are things sculptural? Like, what looks sculptural? Because I'm not getting to rely on color now.
- [25:14]
Michael Boudreau
I wanted to ask you. I mean, you mentioned travel and that you went to England when you were young because, like, your new collection for Schumacher, which I know your first collection was hugely successful, and I thought that when you came up with those. I don't even know what to call them, like, medallions and stuff that you could sew onto upholstery and the edge of clothes.
- [25:31]
Mary McDonald
Oh, I know. I never picked up. I called them appliques.
- [25:35]
Michael Boudreau
Appliques. I thought that was so genius.
- [25:37]
Mary McDonald
How come no one makes these? It really was, I have to say. Like, everyone came out with them after that. I never did a second one of those. Although Schumacher makes some real. They're even better now. Schumacher makes. Makes like, better ones. When you start with the first pioneering of something, you haven't figured out how to make it, like, exactly what it needs to be.
- [25:58]
Michael Boudreau
But it was so clever because it was kind of that finishing detail that, you know, first of all, you can't find, unless you're at an economic level, that you can go to Lesage or something to get that kind of detailing into a room. And yet you made it. You brought that kind of detailing to a very practical level. You know, with the tapes and trims and the appliques. I just thought that was so smart. And they were beautiful. You know, you say they're better now, but yours were beautiful. But now you have a new collection, which to me. And you saw this in your Kips Bay room. It seems more European, almost like, you know, the paper with its shells, it looks like an Italian grotto. It's like, so what were you looking at there? Was it travel that inspired you? Were there particular rooms or other designers, you know, because, you know. Yeah, it was a very successful collection, but you had to expand it, so that's hard.
- [26:50]
Mary McDonald
Well, actually, this is my third interior collection. Because the second one, if you remember, was all, like, island inspired. You might not have realized it was like, it had raffia and beaded trims.
- [27:04]
Michael Boudreau
I remember that, yes.
- [27:05]
Mary McDonald
First of all, I love a gimmick. And a gimmick is like a cheesy word, but I love a costume. I love a theme. There aren't enough hours or days or lines for me to really want to express all the different things I would want to do. So what I came out with for my very first collection, which was really a decade ago, was just things that I had to custom get from people I had to have custom made. Like, those super wide trims were something I had to have custom embroidered on a leading edge of a curtain. I was like, why does no one make something that's kind of like this Holland and Sherry thing? That is. I mean, it's like $600 a foot or something. All those things were things that were custom things. I was like, the world needs this. That's why it was so successful. My second collection was really like a fun Tahiti thing, because I, like, I just thought this would be Mrs. Howell meets YSL in this, like. Cause I'm really more fashiony is really what it is. It's not really one need. I don't have one need. I have way more ideas. We have to cut off so many ideas. When we go through these meetings. They're like, okay, you need to pick, like, eight. You can't have 40.
- [28:28]
Michael Boudreau
Edit, edit, edit.
- [28:31]
Mary McDonald
The grotto thing is. So since I move to the Hudson Valley half the time, which is not the English countryside, but this house that I live in is really kind of more of an English country house. I wanted to make a grotto room. I've always. I love shells. I used to do, like, shell mirrors for people that were custom and shelf furniture, but kind of glamorous ones. Not little shells, big shells. So. Because it was dramatic and theatrical. So I wanted to do something that was if you could make a grotto room in wallpaper. That really felt kind of like a grotto room. How could we do this? So it would have to look. I studied them all because I actually still really want to do a real grotto room. That's real shelves, but let's just see if I get to this in the next 40 years. So that was just something I have loved. I was like, I want to do a grotto room somewhere. And then it turned into. This would be a great idea because shells are. I feel like everything comes in waves now. I'm old enough where I've seen a wave and I'm ready for the next wave, just like fashion. So that was really inspired by only antique grotto rooms. It's not even as antique looking as it might be, but that would be so theatrical if I did it like that, that it's not as easy to use. So I even have to pull back on myself of what I might really do for myself to just make it a successful line. Like, it does look European. And it's made in panels, my shell grotto, so that you could cut them apart for ceiling heights. They have different markers. Well, you could honestly make your own decoupage room out of it because of how the panels are set up. But I did.
- [30:14]
Michael Boudreau
But you are practical. That's what always impressed me about, you.
- [30:18]
Mary McDonald
Know what it is? I'm practical because nobody wants to do licensing with someone with something that doesn't fit.
- [30:24]
Michael Boudreau
Right. Of course.
- [30:25]
Mary McDonald
So why would I be doing this? And that's not successful. I can make one of a kind things. That's when you do your own grotto room. That would be. So, you know, you're a better partner when you want it to sell within the confines of, you know, creativity that you are not. You don't feel stifled. In fact, Schumacher is such a great team to work with for. For anything that has to do with textile and pattern, because there's so many experts in their company that if you don't really know how to execute this, someone there will. So your question was, what was my inspiration? A lot of things I've always liked. I love a floral. I found this rooster, which is really a hen we discovered. So I have this lady hollyhock, we call it, that has a hen in between these hollyhocks that were taken from an old, actually Asian watercolor. And I love a bird. You know, birds are kind of controversial from sales point of view. Some people like, they don't love a bird. I wanted an old fashioned Cecil Beaton floral that looked like, you know, it might be in an old movie. And I wanted it for myself. So I was like, can we just make a colorway that I'm going to use for myself? I have to love it so much. I want to use it in three rooms, which is really so special. Silly. But part of me also feels like as a decorator, there's things that are difficult for kind of just the average decorator that's really purely like more decorating. They don't want to get mired in this, the renovation of things. And so I thought, what would I love to see or use that's kind of hard to use? And I love Portuguese tiles. So a lot of people will use real tile and do it with a chair rail. So it's just sort of wainscoting in a bedroom. There's something very glamorous about it. So I ended up buying 17th century tile and we did a version of that. You know, once again, it's a little dramatic, it's a little theatrical. I like one theatrical element per room, so I can't. It is more European, but it wasn't really thought out. Like, this is the Italian collection. It's a little bit grand tour. It was like I stopped in England, I picked up a few tiles in Lisbon, and then I kept going and then I hit a grotto and then I ended up in Sweden with some Greek key things that looked sort of Swedish.
- [33:06]
Michael Boudreau
Little ump here. Yep.
- [33:08]
Mary McDonald
A little. A little lump here. I mean, I'm kind of inspired by that, but I'm really not a purist in any one thing. I'm really kind of a visual, creative person that. That can really jump on any theme. Like, give me the next theme.
- [33:25]
Michael Boudreau
So now you had mentioned and this I wanted to find out more because I was surprised. I mean, I have always thought of you as such. I mean, even though now we know you did go back and forth to New York, I've always thought of you as such an LA designer. And that's probably because of the power of television and, you know, million dollar decorators. We saw you in la, we think of you as an LA designer. But now you're spending a lot more time on the East Coast. And how did that come about? And how is that influencing you, do you think? Cause you bought a house in. Is it in Hudson?
- [33:54]
Mary McDonald
Well, I've had a boyfriend for a past decade that is on the East Coast. It's constant back and forth.
- [34:03]
Michael Boudreau
Okay, see.
- [34:03]
Mary McDonald
Okay, so that's not. I've been back and forth for 10 years. But, you know, why? Does anybody care to hear about why that.
- [34:13]
Michael Boudreau
No, I'm not asking about your personal life per se, but you're spending a lot of time around Hudson. We just did a podcast about Hudson and how design centric it's become and how it rescued the town. And I'd just love to get a sense from you about how that's influencing your projects when working on the east coast or whatever. Are there things like you said, historical homes, working on that. How does that. Is that fun for you?
- [34:35]
Mary McDonald
I don't, you know, to be honest, I always had the same interests in that predated me being here. I just always wanted a country house. When I went to college in Boston, since I was in college, I always wanted a country house. So that was really what the impetus of this was for me. Peter had lived in Westport and I looked there and so I really looked a little all over to land here. And it really wasn't necessarily having to be where I am. I wanted to work on something that had a lot of property that I could work on a little bit every year and add something, and add something that wasn't sort of. It was something I could sink my teeth into over years. And it has 35 acres. So you can. Part of it's just wild. And I want to leave it wild, but you know, you could. You can take each space and make an outdoor folly. So it was really just a personal thing that wasn't about having historical homes for us. I'd already lived in a historical home in Beverly Hills. I worked on quite a few historical estates. I worked in some in other states. So that isn't really why I really wanted to be in the country. Like, the country and everyone's really into like, what historical home you can find out here. But being early America, a lot of them just look like little farmhouses and they're adorable. But it's not like the English countryside. Mostly. There's a select few that have these amazing old Vanderbilt Y looking Greek revivals.
- [36:25]
Michael Boudreau
But are you into gardening too? Is that part of the appeal of the country?
- [36:30]
Mary McDonald
Okay. Yes. Yes. Although I need help. I mean, it takes forever. It takes forever to plant and mulch. And it's not that I don't get dirty, but I would never get anything done if I didn't have guys that helped me. But I kind of. I'm the one that. It's not that I called a place and said, just do it all and show me. I've been working on it.
- [36:55]
Michael Boudreau
So, yeah, you Need. I mean, especially if you have, what, 35 acres, you said.
- [37:00]
Mary McDonald
Well, I'm hardly. I'm working on just an acre, of course.
- [37:04]
Michael Boudreau
Well, that's a big garden. An acre. That's still. I mean.
- [37:06]
Mary McDonald
Well, I'm just saying spots all over. But there's something about it that is very rewarding to me. The house had no landscaping, really. It just. I mean, it had wild and it just had some trees and they just had lawn. There was just lawn everywhere. So I've been working on that. I'm super inspired by Wethersfield. Do you know Wethersfield up here?
- [37:31]
Michael Boudreau
It's beautiful. It's beautiful.
- [37:32]
Mary McDonald
It's beautiful. Not just the fancy house and all the fancy part, but just the structure of the different things they chose. And I just recently went to Michael Trapp's.
- [37:45]
Michael Boudreau
Oh, he's amazing. He's amazing.
- [37:47]
Mary McDonald
And it's not a ton of space, but he made that so magical with the relief of the height of certain things. And so I'm into gardening, but, you know, I can see this is something that goes on for years and years. Which is actually supposed to be the fun of it.
- [38:07]
Michael Boudreau
Exactly. It's endless. You're never done.
- [38:09]
Mary McDonald
Yes.
- [38:09]
Michael Boudreau
Unlike a room. You're never done. You could finish a room, but a garden, you're never done. It's really.
- [38:13]
Mary McDonald
You just finish a space and then move on.
- [38:16]
Michael Boudreau
Right, exactly.
- [38:16]
Mary McDonald
And then you have to go back and maintain the space. So, you know, it gets to be more burdensome. I'm in the beginning where I'm foolish enough to just keep starting things that.
- [38:24]
Michael Boudreau
Like, I hope spring's eternal. Right.
- [38:26]
Mary McDonald
Yeah. I'm in the foolish phase.
- [38:29]
Michael Boudreau
That's great. So how much time do you spend on the east coast versus la? Cause you still have your house in la.
- [38:35]
Mary McDonald
My office is in la, but I'm really more here than I am there. But I just work like as if we're in Covid with the girls in my office. Which is fine because we're working on projects that aren't in either space.
- [38:48]
Michael Boudreau
Right, exactly. You work around the country, so it.
- [38:53]
Mary McDonald
Doesn'T make any difference. You know, it's not like old fashioned decorating. People kind of forget. Old fashioned decorating was just local antique dealers. You had to go to someone's house you might have sketched. It's not the same. I mean, everything is about your plan. I mean, you have to visit it. But I don't have to be at my jobs.
- [39:16]
Michael Boudreau
Right.
- [39:17]
Mary McDonald
Really, Very rarely do I have to go.
- [39:20]
Michael Boudreau
That's great.
- [39:20]
Mary McDonald
I go in the beginning. The middle and the end, Right.
- [39:23]
Michael Boudreau
It's great.
- [39:24]
Mary McDonald
And then one more to fix all the things that didn't work out.
- [39:29]
Michael Boudreau
And there's always a few, right? Always a few.
- [39:31]
Mary McDonald
And then they go on for years.
- [39:33]
Michael Boudreau
Right? Right. So, Mary, what would you like to see next in your career do you want to do? I know, besides the grotto room, which obviously we hope that happens. And some enlightened client calls you and says, I want to.
- [39:45]
Mary McDonald
Well, that's not my career. That's just for me.
- [39:46]
Michael Boudreau
No. Okay.
- [39:47]
Mary McDonald
I don't even want to. I don't even want to listen to a third party get people.
- [39:50]
Michael Boudreau
Okay. So you want your own pure grotto room?
- [39:52]
Mary McDonald
Yeah, I want my own grotto room. That makes no sense because I'm not even near any water. But, you know, I'm really kind of just enjoying the peace of the country. I kind of wouldn't mind dabbling back into fashion. Like maybe doing a little jewelry. Something like dramatic statement necklaces.
- [40:16]
Michael Boudreau
I could see you would do amazing jewelry pieces, big and bold.
- [40:22]
Mary McDonald
And there's kind of. I feel like there's things that are coming to me that are different than what I've been doing. Not that I want to stop some the things I've been doing, but I'm feeling myself wanting to explore, like, absolutely new avenues. Like, I actually found myself painting up here. I mean, kind of contemporary, abstract things, but, like, I could see myself getting into that just kind of as a decorative painter. But there's things that I'm exploring that aren't necessarily what you would expect.
- [40:55]
Michael Boudreau
That's great. That's what keeps you young, you know, and that's, you know, always vital. As you're trying new things, things are coming to you. And, you know, my sister's very spiritual, and she always says if you put it out into the world, it will come back to you. And I think that you're being open to doing these different things is what's bringing them your way.
- [41:14]
Mary McDonald
Well, that's true. You have to be willing to do things without making a business out of it, to just explore it. You can't explore. You can't put the weight on a newborn to be an adult. Like, you can't put the weight on a seed that you're not sure what it's supposed to be. But if you're letting yourself be creative without that weight, you can kind of just discover if it's something you. It peters out or it takes hold and you let it develop into something else. You don't really have a million hours in the day to do 20 creative things all at once. Though I will say interior design, it is time intensive. It's more management of people and deliveries and it's very administrative. Even when people are working for you, it's. Everything is like a prototype that has a new problem every job. So you have to find a way to juggle that with the people that work for you.
- [42:17]
Michael Boudreau
Because there's no formula. Yeah, it's not like accounting.
- [42:20]
Mary McDonald
There's no formula unless your work has a formula. And if you can get that going, great for you. If you can kind of keep it formulaic. I mean, I don't even know how to do that because every job I get like, oh, I have a new idea.
- [42:33]
Michael Boudreau
Right. You wouldn't want to do it. That's what makes you unique.
- [42:36]
Mary McDonald
Not really. Yeah, not really. But there's nothing wrong with it to me.
- [42:41]
Michael Boudreau
No, but it's great that you're trying new things. You're back and forth, you travel. That's what keeps. Mary. Mary, I think. And we all look forward to seeing what you're gonna be doing next, you know, and thank you. Check. You know, I want all the listeners to look at your new collection and also look at the Newell decor with that beautiful project of yours and the issue.
- [43:01]
Mary McDonald
Thank you.
- [43:02]
Michael Boudreau
And you know, this has been enormous fun, Mary. It's always a treat to talk to you and I so appreciate your being here.
- [43:08]
Mary McDonald
Thank you.
- [43:09]
Michael Boudreau
I want to thank every. All my listeners. I want to thank you for listening to the Cherish Podcast. You've been listening to the Cherish Podcast, brought to you, of course, by Cherish, which was recently voted by the readers of USA Today as the best place to shop online for furniture and home decor. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell a friend or colleague. Or better yet, go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. We appreciate your help in spreading the word and we would love your ideas for future episodes. Please email us@podcasterish.com the Cherish podcast is produced by Britta Muller and engineered by Hanger Studios in New York. Until next time.