Podcast Summary: "Do Not Vote for those Who Support Genocide" featuring Shama Sawant

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Chris Hedges Report
• Host: Chris Hedges
• Episode: Do Not Vote for those Who Support Genocide (w/ Shama Sawant)
• Release Date: November 12, 2024

Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges engages in a candid and profound conversation with Seattle City Council member Shama Sawant. Together, they delve into the intricate dynamics of the upcoming U.S. election, focusing on the moral imperatives of voting, the flaws within the two-party system, and the urgent need to build an independent anti-war movement.

1. Campaigning Against Kamala Harris in Michigan

Shama Sawant opens the discussion by outlining her pivotal role in campaigning against Kamala Harris in Michigan. Highlighting the strategic importance of Michigan’s electoral votes, Sawant emphasizes:

"We need to be clear about what our goals are. We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan." [00:25]

Sawant argues that Kamala Harris’s electoral success hinges on winning Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin—states with significant Arab American populations deeply affected by the ongoing genocide in Gaza. By denying Harris victory in these states, Sawant contends that the Democratic Party must confront the consequences of its stance on Gaza.

2. Critique of the Two-Party System and Support for Jill Stein

Shama and Chris critique the entrenched positions of both Democratic and Republican parties, asserting that neither has the genuine interest or capability to halt ongoing genocides or fulfill the needs of the working class. Shama articulates:

"Performing a grand illusion that somehow the Biden Harris administration is reluctantly supporting the Israeli state is absolutely not the case." [05:36]

They advocate for supporting Jill Stein of the Green Party as a viable alternative that truly opposes the status quo. Shama emphasizes the importance of not falling into the trap of "lesser evilism," where voters choose the less harmful option rather than the genuinely transformative one.

3. Building an Independent Anti-War Movement

Central to their discourse is the necessity of an independent anti-war movement, separate from the Democratic and Republican establishments. Chris Hedges outlines the vision:

"The only way forward is independent of the Democratic and Republican parties... pointing towards the dire, urgent need for a new anti-war party for the working class." [05:27]

Shama supports this by detailing the strategic focus on maximizing Jill Stein’s impact in swing states as a stepping stone to a broader movement.

4. Criticism of Bernie Sanders and the Democratic Party

Shama voices her disapproval of Bernie Sanders’s approach, labeling it as insufficient for genuine systemic change:

"If you are leading the working class and movements... down this dead end of supporting the very party that represents the interest of the same billionaire class... then you are going to go down the same dead end that Bernie Sanders has gone." [16:47]

They argue that Bernie Sanders and similar figures, despite good intentions, fail to break free from the Democratic Party’s limitations in effecting substantial reform.

5. Break with Socialist Alternative and Establishment of Workers Strike Back

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the ideological rift between Shama Sawant and the Socialist Alternative. Chris elaborates on the reasons behind the split:

"The break that happened for several of us from the organization Socialist Alternative... emerged from long-standing differences over some very fundamental questions." [33:08]

Differences primarily revolved around the approach to class struggle and the effectiveness of building independent movements versus aligning with larger political entities. Shama criticizes Socialist Alternative for what she perceives as "lesser evilism" and an inability to fully endorse strategies that challenge the Democratic Party's complicity in perpetuating systemic violence.

6. Achievements in Seattle: A Model for Future Movements

Shama highlights her accomplishments on the Seattle City Council as tangible evidence of effective grassroots activism:

"We won the first major city $15 an hour minimum wage... we also won the Amazon tax... we made a historic victory against federal housing mandates." [45:35]

These victories, achieved despite intense opposition from powerful corporations and political adversaries, demonstrate the potential of a militant, class-struggle-oriented approach to governance and policy-making.

7. The Anemic State of the Left in America

In concluding their discussion, Shama and Chris dissect the reasons behind the current weakness of leftist movements in the United States. Chris attributes it to:

"Historic attacks on the labor movement... the rise of business unionism over class struggle unionism." [54:27]

They argue that the failure to maintain a rigorous, confrontational stance against capitalist interests has led to the erosion of effective leftist movements, emphasizing the need for renewed, militant activism to rejuvenate the left in America.

Notable Quotes:

• Shama Sawant on Strategic Clarity:

  "We need to be clear about what our goals are... We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan." [00:25]

• Chris Hedges on the Two-Party Complicity:

  "Neither Kamala Harris nor Donald Trump... has any interest whatsoever in stopping the genocide." [05:27]

• Shama on Election Strategy:

  "Using election campaigns themselves, win or lose, as a platform to build future struggle." [26:12]

• Chris on Labor Movement Defeat:

  "The air traffic controllers union suffered a historic defeat at the hands of Ronald Reagan." [54:27]

Conclusion

In this episode of The Chris Hedges Report, Chris Hedges and Shama Sawant present a compelling critique of the existing political landscape in the United States. They call for a decisive break from the Democratic and Republican parties, advocating instead for an independent, militant anti-war and working-class movement. Through strategic electoral campaigns and grassroots activism, exemplified by Shama's successes in Seattle, they illustrate a roadmap toward meaningful systemic change. This dialogue serves as a clarion call for voters and activists alike to reject complicity in systemic atrocities and to envision a more just and equitable political future.