Summary of "How Paradise Lost Revolutionized the World (w/ Orlando Reed)" | The Chris Hedges Report

Podcast Information

• Title: The Chris Hedges Report
• Host/Author: Chris Hedges
• Episode: How Paradise Lost Revolutionized the World (with Orlando Reed)
• Release Date: June 5, 2025

Introduction to John Milton and "Paradise Lost"

Timestamp: 00:10

Chris Hedges opens the episode by highlighting the profound impact of John Milton's epic poem, Paradise Lost, on both literature and revolutionary thought. He underscores Milton's significant role during the 17th-century English Revolution, a period marked by the overthrow of the monarchy. Hedges notes Milton's influence on various radical figures, including William Blake, Percy Shelley, Thomas Jefferson, and even Malcolm X, who saw parallels between Milton's work and his own revolutionary ideology.

"Milton inspired later radical poets. William Blake, Percy Shelley, the anarchist Alexander Herzen... Hannah Arendt and Malcolm X who said that Milton and Elijah Muhammad... were saying the same thing." [00:10]

Hedges introduces his guest, Professor Orlando Reed, author of "What in Me is the Revolutionary Afterlife of Paradise Lost", setting the stage for an in-depth discussion on the poem's revolutionary undertones and enduring legacy.

Milton's Political and Personal Context

Timestamp: 03:37

Orlando Reed elaborates on Paradise Lost as a blend of artistic excellence and deep political commentary, reflecting Milton's personal disillusionment following the collapse of the English Republic and the restoration of the monarchy. Reed draws attention to Milton's disenchantment with the failure of the Cromwellian Revolution, his subsequent imprisonment, and the personal turmoil that influenced his writing.

"Paradise Lost is a great work of art that at the same time tries to rise above petty human controversies and is infused with Milton's world...with the politics of the English Civil War and the feeling of defeat." [03:37]

Hedges and Reed discuss the chaos of the English Civil War, emphasizing Milton's unwavering support for Cromwell and his vision of democracy, juxtaposed against Cromwell's drift towards tyranny.

"Paradise Lost" as a Reflection of Revolutionary Failure

Timestamp: 04:44

Reed provides a historical backdrop, detailing Milton's early ambitions to write Paradise Lost and his subsequent sidelining due to the outbreak of the Civil War. He explains how Milton's active role in Cromwell's government exposed him to the harsh realities of political power and its corruption, experiences that deeply influenced the portrayal of Satan in his poem.

"Satan is a figure for Oliver Cromwell... the character of Satan contains some critiques that Milton never articulated during his years working for Cromwell's government." [08:23]

Hedges probes the dual nature of Satan in the poem, pondering whether Milton critiques not just monarchy but also the very essence of revolutionary zeal and its potential for tyranny.

Milton's Views on Liberty and Tolerance

Timestamp: 09:21

The conversation delves into Milton's conception of liberty, anchored in a limited sense of tolerance predominantly for Protestant dissenters. Reed clarifies that while Milton championed freedom, it did not extend to Catholics, reflecting the period's complex religious dynamics.

"Milton wasn't too good to the Catholics... their passionate and violent enmity against Catholics was a political one." [09:23]

Hedges connects these historical limitations to broader themes of freedom and oppression, highlighting the selective nature of 17th-century revolutionary ideals.

Milton and the Radicalism of His Time

Timestamp: 10:44

Reed contextualizes Milton within the fierce radical ferment of the 1640s, characterized by groups like the Diggers, Ranters, and early Quakers. He emphasizes Milton's support for freedom of expression and his belief in the importance of publishing even heretical ideas to foster truth and understanding.

"Milton passionately believed in the value of publishing heretical books... he wasn't a Leveler." [11:06]

Hedges touches upon Milton's theological heresies and his identification as a Christian with unorthodox beliefs, painting him as a revolutionary thinker with anarchistic tendencies.

Milton's Internal Dialogues and Literary Mastery

Timestamp: 13:22

Hedges references Christopher Hill's analysis, suggesting that Milton engaged in a continuous dialogue with radical ideas, internally grappling with the potential for societal collapse. Reed concurs, highlighting Milton's ability to empathize with complex characters like Satan, which enriches the literary depth of Paradise Lost.

"To be a great poet is to understand that one's sympathies and one's capacity to imagine are distributed among one's characters." [14:01]

This section underscores the poem's intricate exploration of good and evil, rebellion, and the human condition.

An Examination of "Paradise Lost"

Timestamp: 15:18

Hedges and Reed dissect the opening of Paradise Lost, where Satan rallies his fallen angels post-rebellion. Reed draws parallels between Satan's determination and Milton's own revolutionary struggles, suggesting that Satan embodies the qualities of a failed revolutionary.

"Satan is insistent that although they've lost the battle in heaven, the war must continue." [15:54]

They discuss the creation of Pandemonium, Milton's coined term for the devil's grand parliament, and the ensuing debate among the fallen angels on how to retaliate against God, reflecting the complexities of leadership and democratic processes within revolutionary movements.

Satan's Complex Character and Milton's Critique

Timestamp: 18:04

Hedges highlights a poignant moment in the poem where Satan exhibits unexpected tenderness towards Eve, drawing literary comparisons to Ahab's fleeting compassion in Moby Dick. Reed interprets this as Milton's recognition of beauty intertwined with moral goodness, adding layers to Satan's characterization.

"Milton believed that the beautiful participated in moral goodness... Satan melts in that moment." [19:29]

Hedges raises theological questions about divine omnipotence and the allowance of evil, prompting Reed to summarize Milton's stance: despite the world's imperfections, it remains worth living in, both in its present state and the promise of eventual redemption.

"Milton's task in Paradise Lost is to remind us that the world, however imperfect, is still something to want to live in." [19:40]

Incremental Change vs. Revolutionary Overhaul

Timestamp: 21:13

Hedges questions whether Milton advocates for gradual societal change over radical revolution. Reed responds by positioning Paradise Lost as a revolutionary epic that eschews glorified violence in favor of advocating for liberty through humble, non-violent means.

"The most heroic acts are true to the New Testament... humble and often quiet acts of love, of forgiveness." [22:22]

This perspective aligns with Milton's cautious approach to celebrating grandiose revolutionary endeavors, emphasizing personal virtue over collective upheaval.

Milton's Caution Against Violent Revolution

Timestamp: 23:49

Reed reflects on Milton's reticence to endorse violent radicalism, possibly influenced by the brutal aftermath of the English Revolution. He contrasts Paradise Lost with classical epics, noting Milton's focus on moral and spiritual heroism rather than physical conquest.

"Milton was cautious about celebrating the grandiosity of men's projects to destroy each other." [24:00]

This section underscores the poem's nuanced stance on power, leadership, and the costs of rebellion.

The Fall of Satan and the Concept of Servitude

Timestamp: 25:26

The dialogue shifts to the climactic downfall of Satan, where Reed compares Satan's failed attempt to establish his own colony on Earth to Elon Musk's Mars colonization endeavors, emphasizing the futility and hubris involved.

"Satan has proposed to go up to this new world to colonize it on behalf of his followers... met with a universal hiss." [26:26]

Hedges and Reed explore the symbolic representation of Satan's rebellion as a form of authoritarian leadership, critiquing the allure and eventual failure of tyrannical ambitions.

Orlando Reed's Book: Connecting Milton to Modern Struggles

Timestamp: 28:17

Reed delves into his book, highlighting the intersection of Milton's Paradise Lost with figures like Malcolm X and Thomas Paine. He recounts how Malcolm X, during his imprisonment, found radical parallels between Milton's portrayal of fallen angels and the oppressive structures of white supremacy and colonialism.

"Milton and Elijah Muhammad... were saying the same thing, that Paradise Lost is a critique of white supremacy and of European colonialism." [32:09]

Hedges and Reed discuss the comparative mythology between Paradise Lost and the Nation of Islam's origin myth, emphasizing the poem's enduring relevance in critiquing systemic oppression.

Educational Disillusionment and the Power of Literature

Timestamp: 32:59

Reed shares his experiences teaching both at Princeton and in the New Jersey prison system, reflecting on the stark contrasts between elite education and the institutionalized disenfranchisement faced by prisoners. He advocates for the transformative power of education in prisons, asserting that intellectual capability is not bound by one's social status.

"People in prison deserve the best possible education. And they certainly prove themselves to be worthy students." [34:01]

Hedges adds that privileged individuals often remain blind to societal injustices, a blindness lifted only when stripped of status, underscoring the societal disparities illuminated through education.

Thomas Paine and Milton's Revolutionary Synergy

Timestamp: 37:05

The conversation shifts to Thomas Paine, whom Reed regards as a true intellectual and radical influenced by Milton. He cites an interaction between Paine and John Adams, where Paine credits Milton for his revolutionary rhetoric, demonstrating Milton's indirect yet profound influence on American founding ideals.

"Paine had taken his ideas in part from Milton... he had taken his ideas in part from Milton." [37:05]

Reed explores how Paine and Adams interpreted Milton's work differently, with Paine embracing its radical undertones and Adams maintaining a more ceremonial view of republicanism.

Equiano's Intersection with Milton's Themes

Timestamp: 38:17

Hedges introduces Olaudah Equiano’s use of Paradise Lost in his abolitionist narrative, suggesting that Equiano paralleled the plight of enslaved Africans with the fallen angels of Milton's poem. Reed elaborates on this interpretation, arguing that Equiano viewed the fallen angels as metaphors for the bondage experienced by slaves.

"The fallen angels are slaves... Paradise Lost has such a rich afterlife among abolitionists." [39:33]

This analysis underscores the poem's versatility in addressing themes of servitude, rebellion, and redemption across different historical contexts.

William Blake's Critical Perspective on Milton

Timestamp: 41:37

Hedges and Reed discuss William Blake's contentious view of Milton, wherein Blake accuses Milton of inadvertently siding with malevolent forces. This critique reflects Blake's broader theological and philosophical disagreements with Milton's portrayal of divine authority.

"Blake saw Milton as siding with the Devil... questioning whether God was not loving, but malevolent." [41:48]

They explore the paradoxical nature of Blake's theology and his critical stance on Milton's literary representation of good and evil.

Virginia Woolf and the Modernist Engagement with Milton

Timestamp: 43:10

Reed addresses Virginia Woolf's complex relationship with Milton, influenced by her father Leslie Stephen's admiration. Woolf's nuanced critique acknowledges Milton's poetic excellence while questioning the patriarchal and masculine undertones of his epic.

"She notes that Milton is the first of the masculinists... but how smooth this poetry is." [45:40]

Reed highlights how Woolf’s contemporaries, like T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound, felt compelled to transcend Milton’s influence, marking a shift in modernist literary aesthetics.

C.L.R. James: Bridging Milton and Totalitarian Critique

Timestamp: 48:53

The discussion turns to Trinidadian scholar C.L.R. James, who drew connections between Milton's Paradise Lost and the totalitarian impulses observed in modern political movements. Reed explains how James interpreted Milton as a precursor to critiques of both fascism and Stalinism, utilizing Moby Dick as a parallel to identify totalitarian traits in American leadership.

"Clr James had turned Milton into himself, into a member of the anti-Stalinist left." [51:16]

Hedges and Reed emphasize the prescient nature of James's analyses, noting their relevance to contemporary political climates.

The Enduring Relevance of Classical Literature

Timestamp: 54:58

Concluding the episode, Hedges reflects on the timelessness of classical literature like Paradise Lost, drawing parallels to ancient Greek works. He underscores Aristotle's flawed defense of slavery as a lens to critique modern societal structures and the persistent nature of tyrannical psychology.

"They grapple with the same issues if they write with any depth and profundity that we are today." [54:26]

Reed concurs, asserting that such works compel readers to confront both societal progress and the unchanging aspects of human nature.

Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

Timestamp: 55:16

Chris Hedges wraps up the episode by acknowledging the deep insights shared by Orlando Reed, reinforcing the significance of Milton's Paradise Lost in understanding and critiquing contemporary societal and political dynamics.

"Thank you, Orlando." [55:15]

Reed reciprocates the gratitude, emphasizing the enduring impact of literary analysis in uncovering the hidden mechanisms of power and rebellion.

Conclusion

In this insightful episode of The Chris Hedges Report, the profound influence of John Milton's Paradise Lost on revolutionary thought, literature, and political critique is thoroughly explored. Through a dynamic dialogue with Professor Orlando Reed, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how Milton's work has been interpreted and reinterpreted across centuries, serving as a mirror to societal struggles against oppression and the complexities of rebellion. The episode underscores the enduring relevance of classical literature in dissecting and challenging the enduring facets of human nature and institutional power.