A (10:56)

Do you see any, any hope in the Mamdani campaign?

B (11:01)

Yes, it looks like he's going to win. The more he's battered by the billionaires in the real estate industry and Israeli lobby. His polls keep going up. So the key thing is turnout. There are huge numbers of younger New Yorkers who are registered to vote who don't vote. They came out for the primary a small number, but Cuomo is relying on a low turnout. And so the issue is he's got over 16,000 volunteers. They should be able to get a major vote turnout. He's getting a lot of media, even critical media, he turns to his advantage. But the one thing he hasn't done is answer the question, how are you going to pay for these programs like free child care, free bus service, et cetera? The way to do it is for him to come out with his colleagues in Albany have already come out for a bill to end the daily rebate of over $40 million a day, maybe 80 million of tiny sales tax on stock transactions. 1/10 of 1%. Chris, you know what you pay when you go to New York? You pay a state and city tax, it's over 8% for necessities of life in stores in New York, 1/10 of 1% will bring in anywhere from 16 to $30 billion a year. And for some reason, even though he's been asked by 1099 Union, he's been asked by a statewide religious group, he's been asked by a coalition of consumer groups, including us, to come out to end the rebate. So you can answer the question how you can pay for daycare and bus fare. And this bill targets money. It actually targets money to mass transit, to health care, to environment, to education. All these unions should be fighting for it, but only a very few are because the state labor federation guy has been listening to Napoli, the state treasurer, who's in the pockets of Wall street and saying, oh, this will harm pension fund investments. Total nonsense. It will be paid primarily by very high frequency traders. So it's a wonderful progressive sales tax for only 1/10 of 1%. Otherwise, he's running a good campaign. Yeah.

A (13:42)

I mean, they've already announced they will do everything they can to destroy him and to make his tenure in office untenable.

B (13:54)

Well, he's got to appoint some very smart, experienced people. And he's fully aware of that. He's a pragmatic guy. He's not a skydiver.

A (14:07)

If the Democratic Party continues in this trajectory and Trump continues to consolidate, and I have used the word fascism. I did not use it in my introduction, but I do use the word fascism, this fascistic. And we've just seen this presidential memo that essentially equates criticism of capitalism, criticism of ice, with acts of terrorism. Where are we headed and how fast?

B (14:41)

We're headed fast into a police state and terrorism. He's already going after James Comey. He's persecuting him. The indictment was two pages. It was totally flimsy by the grand jury, which is a narrow decision. And he now says he's going after Senator Adam Schiff from California. That's another very serious bright line. He's starting to go after lawmakers. And so that's what fascists do. They're going after the press. He's extorting them. He's going after universities. This is technically extortion. When you say you're going to cut off funds, they're going to block law firms from representing clients by not letting them into federal buildings. That's the perfect definition of extortion. That's a serious crime, impeachable crime. Clearly, it's not only his repression, Chris, who's he leaving alone and who is he cutting funds for? You know, cutting funds for FEMA with approaching hurricanes. He's cutting funds that warn on weather patterns. He's cutting funds that warn on pandemics. Trump. Cutting funds that warm on global warming catastrophes. He's cutting the funds of Head Start, which Republicans and Democrats have supported. Cutting the funds on Meals on Wheels, cutting the funds on Medicaid. All these affect Trump voters as well. They're not coming to their senses and turning against them in fast enough numbers. His polls are dropping, but not fast enough because he's betrayed them. But it's not just all of that that you've written and talked about, Chris. Repression, violence, defamation, incarceration, unemploying people, firing them illegally. 300,000 have left the federal civil service since January 20th. Some of them were retirements, but most were pushed out. Closing down scientific research, NIH and cdc. But who's he leaving alone? And this is the definition of fascism or the corporate state. He's leaving alone hundreds of billions of dollars of corporate handouts, giveaways, subsidies, bailouts a year. He's leaving a loan along with Musk. All the corporate crooks that are bleeding federal programs like Medicare, 60 billion fraud a year, billion Medicaid heavy. Tens of billions of dollars by the vendors, by the people who, the companies who sell or who are contracted out to administer programs like the inflated Medicare disadvantage program, poking a huge hole in Medicare with deceptive ads that are not prosecuted by the Federal Trade Commission and of course the military budget. He's added $150 billion more to the bloated military budget than the generals have asked for.44 billion more to Homeland Security hire tens of thousands of mass kidnapping people, throwing them into jail without charges, sometimes exporting them to dictatorial torture museums, excuse me, regimes. So you got the complete definition of fascism defined by Franklin W. Roosevelt, 1938. In a message to Congress, he basically said, when private power takes over our government, that's fascism.

A (18:42)

Let's talk about his deployment of National Guard troops in cities. Washington, Chicago, now Portland. What's he doing?

B (18:54)

Well, basically this attack on Democratic controlled cities, most of them with black mayors like Los Angeles, New York, other places, Washington, D.C. it's part of the fascist takeover. You know, you federalize the state National Guard. He's using fake national emergency declarations. This is Congress's fault. They gave him all, all this wide open discretionary power to declare insurrection, to declare foreign invasion, to declare emergency powers without any criteria or standards. So this goes back a long way when Congress just abdicated its role. It doesn't want to do its job under the Constitution. Those are not executive powers. Those are congressional powers delegated without any restraints and accountability to any reckless president. And we've never had one more reckless. He's an egomaniacal, unstable, dangerous personality. He is set on the record and we printed him in our book on, our book on destroying America on Donald Trump. He said that he knows more than experts in 15 different areas. He knows more about banks, he knows more about construction, he knows more about trade than anyone. This is deranged, megalomaniac person. He just said the other day before the U.N. i've been right on everything. There's a very dangerous personality here.

A (20:42)

And let's talk about ice. The massive expansion of ICE will get more. Its budget will now dwarf all other federal law enforcement agencies and this planned building of huge detention centers all across the country.

B (20:58)

They're not detention centers. They're concentration Camps.

A (21:02)

Concentration camps. Yes, you're right. And they're. How is that mechanism going to be used? One assumes that that's not simply for undocumented people.

B (21:19)

Well, be used for what he's already starting. Like he kidnapped the tough graduate student because she wrote an op ed criticism of him. So there are a lot of people in that category, citizen groups, labor groups, better government groups, reform groups, and he's getting away with it. And one reason, by the way, you might wonder, Chris, and your audience might wonder why people aren't suing for malicious prosecution, abuse of power. The way they have successfully sued out of control police violence in cities around the country under tort law. It's because with the help of the Supreme Court, they've made it very hard to sue federal employees who even under contract, who basically lead the government sovereignty defense. So that's why the ICE agents feel that they're not going to be sued because they come under that protective cloak which the Supreme Court has been expanding. So the, so that's what the concentration camps are for. And now, obviously, public opinion is turning against him and that's where he's going to fail. He's losing ground even significantly among Trump voters and independent voters who voted for him because they're seeing the betrayal, even though there's been a delay in the impact because he delays the tariffs. But a whole bunch of them are going into effect October 1st and they will see the price increases and necessities of life, kitchen table necessities very shortly. So I expect that his polls are going to drop to 30%. And it's only at 30% that Hakeem Jeffries and Schumer say that's when they can go after him. Well, that waits to be seen. What does it mean, go after him? There's only one remedy. It's called impeachment in the House. Removal of the Senate. Now people say impossible. GOP controls both. Not at all. Here's why. When the GOP sees its polls plummeting for 2026, it's either them up for reelection and loss of the Congress or Trump who is not up for reelection. What do you think they're going to pick? What's the precedent? Let's go to Richard Nixon. He won 49 states in 1972. He was a 60% approval. Less than two years later, he resigned. Why? Because he was about to be impeached and removed from office. For what articles? Listen to this in comparison. Listen to the transgressions of Nixon that led to his ouster. One count of obstructing justice, and I think two counts of obstructing justice and one article of defying a congressional subpoena. Well, he, Trump defined 125 congressional subpoenas in his first term alone. 125 obstruction of justice. John Bolton said in his memoir, the former security assistant to Trump, whose Trump is going after, by the way, he's raided his home with FBI agents and he said, quote, obstruction of justice was a way of life, a daily way of life in the White House first term. So the Democrats have hundreds of more impeachable offenses. And they're not one time events like Watergate. They are continuingly impeachable. He brags about it openly. He boasts about it. He indicts himself every day. And the Democrats on Capitol Hill are telling us now is not the time for impeachment. Now is not the time. When is the time, Jamie Raskin? When is the time, Adam Schiff? When is the time, Schumer? When is the time, Jeffries? After he's prosecuted you with rump prosecutors for crimes and got you before a grand jury? Is that what you're waiting for? Have you ever seen a more craven, corrupt, cowardly party in American history, Chris?

A (25:45)

No. And it's always, you know, you look at Weimar anywhere else, it's always a bankrupt liberalism that sows the seeds for fascism.

B (25:58)

Well, you know, you wrote the book on the death of the liberal class at which when I had you on my podcast radio show, I accused you of understatement. And it's really, it's much worse. For example, we're asking Jamie Raskin. He is now the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. There's nothing stopping him from holding shadow hearings publicly with witnesses and media on impeachment, educating the public, getting them ready for impeachment if and when the Democrats take control of the House. Now, the House Democrats under Pelosi, they impeached Trump twice, once on a Ukraine extortion type thing with Hunter Biden, not exactly a tabletop issue, kitchen table issue. And the other was on January 6th, insurrection. Now they have 24 serious, serious impeachable offenses, many of which are criminal violations, with jail terms like the Anti Deficiency act, which prohibits presidents from not obeying appropriation fund orders by the Congress, which he violates every day. He's closing down aid impeachable offense. Congress has authorized funds to keep it open. He's done the same thing with Education Department, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that protects people and has returned $21 billion from corporate crooks, including from Wall Street. So what are they waiting for? The longer they wait, the more they're going to have to deal with the police, terrorist state. The sky has no boundaries. And he's a deranged, unstable personality. He's ignorant, monomaniacal, he knows more than everybody. And he's put entrenched. Yes, people that can be the counterparts of Herman Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop guys like Hespest, Secretary of Defense. You can't wait for a war. They're pushing the country to war. And he'll put a country, he'll put us into war to try to avoid impeachment and send U.S. troops. So we have retired military who despise Trump. They worked under him. They were Secretary of Defense. Remember Mathis, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs and his security advisor, John Kelly, all former generals, retired. Now they have a network. What are they waiting for? They cannot be told to obey an illegal order under the Constitution. And a Trump war without congressional authorization is ipso facto an illegal order to every soldier that they are under a legal requirement under the Nuremberg rules, international law to disobey that illegal order and go fight an illegal war in some foreign land.

A (29:16)

So Ralph, before I ask you about your new book, do you have any idea what this concave of all the senior military and hegseth is about?

B (29:29)

It's about not to disobey illegal orders that are forthcoming, to do things from Trump to the Pentagon to people overseas, and to use the military domestically in our cities and towns and rural areas which violate a federal law. And he can't get away with it by just declaring one fake emergency after another. It's basically to whip potential dissenters among the generals and admirals, people who grew up West Point, Air Force Academy, Naval Academy, saying that their first obligation is their oath to support the Constitution, not the Secretary of Defense or the President. It's a very dangerous whipping them into a very pliable force for illegal action against the American people domestically and abroad.

A (30:31)

So let's talk about at the end here, your book, Civil self respect and what you call civic personality as opposed to a personal personality.

B (30:46)

Let me just put it this way. I want to use this metaphor. The mighty Mississippi starts with a few rivulets in Minnesota and Montana. The rivulets then become brooks. Brooks then merge to become streams. The streams then merge into mighty tributaries which then like the Missouri river, feed into the giant Mississippi River. The giant Mississippi river would not be a river without the rivulets and the streams. So that's the metaphor. Now, the reason I wrote this book, it's critical to all we've been discussing. The ball game now is back in the hands of the people they're turning out. At various town meetings. One percent of them are marching and. And very active. We need more than 1%, even 2%, is 5 million adults right there. And so I write this book because I would be speaking to large audiences, Chris, around the country in past years. And at the end, people would come up to me rather hesitantly and they would say, ralph, I know I'm a nobody, but I have to ask you this question. When I hear that, I flare. I say, what do you mean you're a nobody? How can you ever say you're a nobody? You live as a citizen in this country. How can you say you're a nobody? A worker? Yes. Are you a consumer shopper? Yes. Are you a taxpayer? Yes. Voter? Well, sometimes. Are you a parent? Yes. Are you a veteran? Sometimes. Well, how can you say you're a nobody? You know things about those roles. You've experienced them. You've been frustrated. If you allow yourself to be a nobody, you're going to be treated like a nobody. You're going to be treated like someone who doesn't count, someone who doesn't matter, somebody who can be disrespected, someone who can be ripped off, somebody who could be underinsured, somebody who can be suppressed. So let me tell you something, and that is you don't have to go out of your way just in your ordinary shopping. You get ripped off, you become more of an advocate. You move into a citizen dimension. Some of examples in this book, just full of examples called Citizen Self Respect. A woman was kept on a tarmac in Michigan for hours with her fellow passengers. The plane heated up, it was awful. And so when she got out, she looked into it and she saw there's no remedy for the passengers. So she started a book, a group called Flyers Rights. Kate Hanney was her name. And until she stopped getting support because people often look the other way and think other people are going to support these citizen groups. She made a lot of changes on the basis of her experience. She became a citizen advocate. And there are people who've done this recently. They've been in the news in the food safety area. They mobilized because of their bad experiences with junk food, contaminated food. So this is full of examples. And so your daily role as a consumer, a worker, a taxpayer, voter, whatever, you can go out of your personal role and develop an additional civic energy, civic protest, civic advocacy, and some of you are going to be so excited. You're going to join existing citizen groups that want more members and more supporters around the country focusing on Congress. For example, you'll get the Capitol Hillcitizen.com the new Capitol Hill citizen newspaper that we're putting out. You'll connect with some local groups on housing and really basic community necessities that are recognized by left right families who don't fall prey to the divide and rule tactics of the ruling classes because they want the same things for their children and for themselves. Public services, adequate benefits that they've already paid into as well as clean air, clean water and other protections locally in the community and the neighborhood. This is why I call this my most important book. This is a short book, very readable, full of examples, but it's very personal. The chapters are chapter names that have never been written about before in a preface. I the citizen I the worker I the consumer Shopper. I the taxpayer I the voter I the parent I the veteran I the Philanthropist. People say philanthropy. I'm not a philanthropist. Are you kidding? Lower and middle income people give a higher portion of their money to charity than rich people. They're all philanthropists. They can all decide where to put their money, how to aggregate their money, how to talk to enlightened rich people to fund activities which we outline in this book at the local level. So you can get an autographed copy of this book if you're inclined. That way you can go to nader.org and it describes the book or you can get it directly from the publisher, Seven Stories Press or you can get it in other ways. You you buy books online or from your independent bookstores. Called Citizen Self Respect has a nice commentary, very brilliant commentary by Patti Smith on the front page as well as other encomiums that I appreciate, including yours. Chris Hedges, thank you very much. Winner of the Pulitzer Prize for war and author of the book War is a Force that Gives Meaning. That gives meaning. I always thought it was one of your greatest books because it really cuts deep into the self respect or lack of by citizens around the country who have allowed themselves to lose their government, have it be taken over by corporations and into a military corporatist plutocracy. Great.

A (38:00)

Thanks Ralph. That's civic self respect. I want to thank Diego, Max, Sophia, Thomas and Victor who produce the show. You can find me at chrishedges.substack.com.

B (38:21)

Sa.