The Chris Hedges Report

Episode: "The Death of Holocaust Studies"

Guest: Dr. Raz Segal, Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Stockton University
Date: September 9, 2025

Main Theme

This episode explores the crisis and possible "death" of Holocaust studies, focusing on how the Holocaust has been politicized and weaponized—particularly by the state of Israel and Zionist interests—to justify state violence, notably in Gaza. Dr. Raz Segal discusses his personal intellectual journey, critiques of global Holocaust memory, and the implications for scholarship and moral lessons drawn from the Holocaust.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Political Uses and Misuses of the Holocaust

• Holocaust as Unique Event

  • Chris Hedges opens by critiquing the idea of Holocaust "uniqueness," arguing its use to justify ongoing violence by Israel and to obscure other genocides perpetrated by colonial powers.
  • Quote: "Unique suffering in their eyes confers unique entitlement." (00:10, Hedges)

• Holocaust Memory Serving State Interests

  • Dr. Segal: The Holocaust has been weaponized to support the Israeli state project and more broadly, the global nation-state system, rather than to foster universal genocide prevention.
  • "Global Holocaust memory by design is a state project. Their goal, their interest is the interest of the state, not the interest of the people targeted by states." (22:57, Segal)

2. Never Again: Universal vs. Sectarian Lessons

• Universal Lessons Ignored

  • Dr. Segal embraces a universalist reading of "never again," not limited to Jews but as a call to prevent all genocides.
  • Quote: "I take that very seriously not in the framework of Holocaust uniqueness, exclusionary Israeli, Zionist framework, Never Again for us... but for me the framework is universal framework. So that is indeed about genocide prevention." (04:16, Segal)
  • The global and Israeli frameworks have instead reinforced the nation-state system responsible for the Holocaust and other genocides.

• Replication of Colonial Violence

  • Segal details how post-WWII, rather than dismantling the exclusionary mechanisms that enabled genocide, the nation-state and colonial structures were replicated, manifesting acutely in the Israeli state’s continued violence against Palestinians.
  • "The struggle against Israeli mass violence... is for me, a very important element that stems from thinking about the significance of the Holocaust." (09:36, Segal)

3. The Formative Role of State and Education

• Personal Trajectory and Indoctrination
  • Segal describes his upbringing as an Israeli Jew where Holocaust uniqueness and Zionism were deeply felt assumptions, not taught via explicit propaganda but absorbed as "common sense."
  • "Everything kind of flowed from this kind of system of uniqueness of Jews, antisemitism, the Holocaust and Israel… growing up, Nakba denial was nothing explicit… it was just unimaginable to think about the Nakba." (12:01-13:00, Segal)
  • His transformation came through confronting contradictory evidence in academic research, paralleling his study of Holocaust and Israeli history.
  • "For me personally, it was a process of years of learning. And then I would say... of unlearning." (18:36, Segal)

4. The Crisis in Holocaust Studies

• Weaponization by Institutions

  • Major Holocaust institutions have not only failed to condemn Israeli violence in Gaza but have actively used Holocaust memory to justify it, depicting Palestinians as Nazis and the October 7 attack as a "continuation" of the Holocaust.
  • "Institutes of Global Holocaust Memory, unsurprisingly at all, all stood behind Israel's attack on Gaza, actually participated in a crude weaponization of Holocaust history by depicting Palestinians as Nazis..." (34:24, Segal)
  • Mainstream Holocaust studies scholars largely aligned with these narratives, legitimizing or denying Israeli crimes in Gaza.

• Scholarly Divides and Death of the Field

  • A small minority of Holocaust scholars, including Segal and Omar Bartov, opposed this whitewashing—Bartov identified Gaza as genocide only months into the campaign (discussed from 39:21).
  • The field faces an unbridgeable divide as some scholars have "burned all their bridges" with their public legitimization or denial of genocide against Palestinians.
  • "This is why we're talking now about... the death of Holocaust studies as a field." (41:53, Segal)
  • Segal suggests this "death" may be positive if it allows historical study of the Holocaust free from state-serving constraints.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Weaponization of History:

  • "The sacralization of the Holocaust allows Germany, which has been one of Israel's most important weapons suppliers... to absolve itself for its past atrocities through its backing of the Israeli settler colonial state." (02:00, Hedges)

• Universalism in Genocide Prevention:

  • "Taking seriously, never again in its universalist meaning and taking seriously the international law and the issue of genocide prevention. And that is really the struggle against Israeli mass violence." (09:04, Segal)

• On Holocaust Studies Crisis:

  • "There is no way to resolve that, at least the way that I see it right now. And that's why it's even beyond a crisis... it is perhaps possible to speak... about the death of Holocaust studies as a field." (41:53, Segal)

• On the Potential Value of the Field’s Demise:

  • "Maybe it's good that we won't have Holocaust studies anymore, and maybe it will open the door for even, you know, more interesting and important research on the Holocaust as history, as real history." (43:15, Segal)

Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10–04:06 – Hedges critiques Holocaust uniqueness and introduces Dr. Segal
• 04:06–10:24 – Segal outlines a universal approach to “Never Again” and the roots of modern genocide in nation-state and colonial systems
• 10:24–20:14 – Segal’s personal and academic journey; socialization into Holocaust uniqueness, Nakba denial, and trajectory of unlearning
• 20:14–33:34 – On how Israel/Global Holocaust memory weaponizes and problematizes the Holocaust; contradictions and the rise of Holocaust denial
• 33:34–44:04 – Discussing the “crisis” of Holocaust studies, scholarly divides, the weaponization of Holocaust memory in the context of Gaza
• 44:04–44:41 – Discussion on potential sectarian atrophy and "death" of the Holocaust studies field
• 46:52–47:09 – Closing acknowledgments

Tone & Language

The conversation is intellectually rigorous, reflective, and sharply critical, especially regarding the interaction between memory, history, nationalism, and current state violence. Both Hedges and Segal maintain a tone of moral urgency and universalism while engaging in detailed historical and political analysis.

For those seeking to understand current debates in Holocaust studies and the broader implications for politics and memory in Israel/Palestine, this episode offers a trenchant critique and a call to reclaim the Holocaust as a universal lesson against all forms of state violence and genocide.