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The Chris Hedges Report
The Member States Complicit in GENOCIDE (w/ Francesca Albanese) | The Chris Hedges Report
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- [00:10]
A
Francesca Albanese, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Palestine, in her latest report, gaza Genocide, a Collective Crime, calls out the role 63 nations have in sustaining the Israeli genocide. Albanese, who because of sanctions imposed on her by the Trump administration had to address the UN General assembly from the Desmond and Lea Tutu Legacy foundation in Cape Town, South Africa, slams what she calls decades of moral and political failure through unlawful actions and deliberate omissions. Too many states have harmed, founded and shielded Israel's militarized apartheid, allowing its settler colonial enterprise to metastasize into genocide, the ultimate crime against the indigenous people of Palestine, she told the un. The genocide, she notes, has diplomatic protection in international fora meant to preserve peace military ties ranging from weapons sales to joint trainings that fed the genocidal machinery the unchallenged weaponization of aid and trade with entities like the European Union, which had sanctioned Russia over Ukraine. It continued doing business with Israel. The 24 page report details how the live streamed atrocity is facilitated by third states. She excoriates the United States for providing diplomatic cover for Israel, using its veto power at the UN Security Council seven times and controlling ceasefire negotiations. Other Western nations, the report noted, collaborate with with abstentions, delays and watered down draft resolutions providing Israel with weapons even as the evidence of genocide mounted. The report chastised the US Congress for passing 26.4 billion arms package for Israel, although Israel was at the time threatening to invade Rafah in defiance of the Biden administration's demand that Rafah be spared. The report also condemns Germany, the second largest arms exporter to Israel during the genocide, for weapons shipments that include everything from frigates to torpedoes, as well as the United Kingdom, which has allegedly flown more than 600 surveillance missions over Gaza since the war broke out in October 2023. At the same time, Arab states have not severed ties with Israel. Egypt, for example, maintains significant security and economic relations with Israel and including energy cooperation and the closing of the Rafah crossing during the war. The Gaza genocide, the report states, exposed an unprecedented chasm between peoples and their governments, betraying the trust on which global peace and security rest. Her report coincides with a ceasefire that isn't nearly 300 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed by Israel since the ceasefire was announced two weeks ago. The first major ceasefire breach on October 19 led to Israeli airstrikes that killed 100 Palestinians and wounded 150 others. Palestinians in Gaza continue to endure daily bombings that obliterate buildings and homes. Shelling and gunfire continue to kill and wound civilians while drones continue to hover overhead, broadcasting ominous threats. Essential food items, humanitarian aid and medical supplies remain scarce because of the ongoing Israeli siege. And the Israeli army controls more than half of the Gaza Strip, shooting anyone, including families who come too close to its invisible border known as the Yellow Line. Joining me to discuss her report, the ongoing genocide in Gaza and the complicity of numerous states in sustaining the genocide is Francesca Albanese, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Palestine. Before we get into the report, let's talk a little bit about what's happening in Gaza. It's just a complete disconnect between what is described by the international community, that is a ceasefire, and what's. The pace may have slowed down, but nothing's changed.
- [04:30]
B
Yes, thank you for having me, Chris. I, I do agree that it seems that there is a complete disconnect between reality and political discourse because after the ceasefire, the attention has been forcefully shifted, has been forced to shift from Gaza elsewhere. I do believe, for example, that the increased attention over the, the catastrophic situation in Sudan, which has been such for years now, all of a sudden is due to the fact that there is a need for, especially from Western countries, and I mean the us, Israel and their acolytes to focus on a new emergency. There is the pretense that there is peace. There is no need to, to protest anymore because finally there is peace. There is no peace. I mean, the Palestinians have not seen a day of peace because Israel has continued to fire, to use fire, to use violence against the Palestinians in Gaza. Over 230 Palestinians have been killed since the ceasefire, 100 of them in one day, in 24 hours, including 50 children. And so starvation continues. Yes, there has been increase in the number of trucks, but far, far below what is needed, with much confusion because it's very hard to deliver aid all the more. Israel maintains a control over 50%.
- [06:20]
A
Of.
- [06:20]
B
The Gaza Strip, while the entire Gaza population is amassed in small portions, guarded portions of the territory. So there is no peace. Meanwhile, while the Security Council seems to be ready to approve a Security Council resolution that will create an anachronistic form of tutelage of four trusteeship over Palestine, over Gaza, the west bank is abandoned to the violence and the ethnic cleansing pushed by armed settlers and soldiers, while Israeli jails continue to fill up with bodies to torture of adults and children alike, this is the reality in the occupied Palestinian territory today, and so makes absolutely no sense where the political discourse is.
- [07:19]
A
Two issues about Gaza. One, of course, Israel has seized over 50% or occupies over 50% of Gaza. And as I understand it they're not allowing any reconstruction supplies, including cement in.
- [07:34]
B
This is also my understanding they have allowed in food, water and some essential materials needed for hospitals, mainly camp hospitals and tents. But anything related to sustainability is prohibited. There are many food items that are also prohibited because they're considered luxurious. And why? The question Chris is, and this is why I harbor so much frustration these days toward member states, because in the case of genocide, you have heard yourself the argument, well, the recalcitrants of certain states to use the genocide framework saying, and it's pure nonsense from a legal point of view, but saying, well the International Court of Justice has not concluded that is genocide. Well, it has concluded that, has concluded already that there is a risk of genocide two years ago, I mean in January 2024. But however, even when the court does conclude on something relevant like in July 2024, that the occupation is illegal and must be dismantled totally and condemned and unconditionally, this should be the starting point of any peace related or forward looking discussions. Instead of deliberating how to force Israel to withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territory, member states continue to maintain dialogue with Israel as Israel had sovereignty over the territory. You see, so it's completely this topic, the future. They are leading Palestinians out of despair into. But they are also forcing the popular movement, the global movement that has formed, made of young people and workers to stop. Because look at what's happening in France, you in Italy, in Germany, in the uk. Any kind of attempt at maintaining the light turned on Palestine from Gaza to the west bank is assaulted. Protests, conferences. There is a very active assault on anything that concerns Palestine. So this is why I'm saying we are far, far beyond the mismanagement of the lack of understanding, I mean the negligence in approaching the question of Palestine, its active complicity to sustain Israel in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
- [10:37]
A
Which as you point out in your report has been true from the beginning despite a slight change in rhetoric recognizing the two state solution. The UK did this while only cutting back arms shipments by 10%. But I want to ask before we get into the report, what do you think Israel's goal is? Is it just slow walked the genocide until it can resume it? Is it to create this appalling, uninhabitable, unlivable ghetto? What do you think Israel's goal is?
- [11:13]
B
I think that now more than ever is impossible to separate and distinguish the goals of Israel from the go of the United States. We tend to have a fragmented view of what happens analyzing for example the relationship between Lebanon and Israel between Iran and Israel or between Israel and the Palestinians? In fact, I do. I mean, one of the things that Palestine has made me realize is the meaning of Greater Israel. Because I do believe that what the current leadership in Israel has in mind, and it's supported by many willing or not in the Israeli society, many who are fine with the erasure of the Palestinians. But there is this idea of Greater Israel. And for a long time I have been among those who thought, who were wondering what it is, this Greater Israel. Because of course, you look at the map brandished by Israeli leaders in several occasions going with this Greater Israel, going from the Nile to the Euphrates, and you say, come on, they cannot do that. They cannot occupy Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq. But then everything changes. When you look at it from a non territorial border expansion perspective, and if you think that in fact domination can be, can be exerted, established other than by expanding the physical borders and through military occupation, but through domination and financial control, control from outside power, domination, you see that the Greater Israel Project has already started and it's very advanced. Look at the annihilation of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon. So all those who were historically considered not friends of Israel have been annihilated. And the other Arab countries that remain either do not have the capacity to confront Israel and perish the thought they explored the idea of unity among them or with others, and the others are fine with it. So, so ultimately I think that Greater Israel is the quintessential explanation of the US imperialistic design in that part of the world for which the Palestinians remain a thorn in the side, not just for Israel, but for the imperialistic project itself. Because the Palestinians are still, still there resisting. They don't want to go, they don't want to be tamed, they don't want to be dominated. So they are the last, like the last line, the last frontier of resistance, both physically and in the imagination. And therefore you see the fierceness against them has scaled up with the US now getting ready with boots on the ground to get rid of them. This is my interpretation of the general design behind Israel, Israel, United States, where the Israelis are going to pay a heavy price like many in the region, not just the Palestinians.
- [14:58]
A
So you see the imposition of American troops in Gaza as another step forward to the depopulation of Gaza?
- [15:07]
B
Yes, yes, yes. I don't trust any promise made to the Palestinians, either by Israel or by the United States. Because what I've seen over the past two years shows me, demonstrates to all of us in fact, that they don't care at all about the Palestinians, otherwise they would have seen their suffering. It's not just, it's just not like people like us who can really divide their life. Like, is it pre genocide? Does it happen to you as well? Are you talking of pre genocide or after genocide? Because in fact, the beginning of genocide has changed my perception of the world. And it's in a way, for me personally, it's the end of an era of innocence when I really believed that the United nations were a place where things could still be advanced in the pursuit of peace. Now I don't think so, which doesn't mean that I think that the UN is over. But in order not to be over, in order to make sense to the people, to weak the people to it is to be led by dignity principles like dignity, equality and freedom for all. And we are absolutely far from that today.
- [16:29]
A
And what is it that brought you to this decision? Is it the acceptance of this faux genocide, a faux ceasefire on the part of the un, or was it before this moment?
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B
No, it's before.
- [16:43]
A
It's before.
- [16:44]
B
It's the fact that for two years most states, primarily in the west, but with the acquiescence of other states in the region, have supported the Israeli mantra of self defense. Sorry, it was a mantra because again, self defense as a very. I'm not saying that Israel had no right to protect itself. Of course Israel had suffered a ferocious attack on October 7th. Someone says similar to the attacks it had inflicted on the Palestinians. Others say more brutal, others say less brutal. It doesn't matter. Israel suffered a horrible violent attack. Israeli civilians suffered a horrible attack on October 7th. But hey, this didn't give the possibility to Israel to invoke Article 51 of the UN Charter, meaning the right to wage a war. This is not legal. And on this I can say I'm surprised by how conservative are Member States when it comes to the interpretation of international law. Except on this, in the sense that the International Court of Justice has already set the limits of the right of invoking self defense for Member states and it can only be done against states and where there is a concrete threat that the state will attack. Just not the case here. So yes, Israel could defend itself but not wage a war. And while the war was clearly identifiable, more for its crimes than not its tendency to avoid crimes, Member States have continued to say nothing. And it was very extreme violence against the Palestinians in Gaza, but also against the Palestinians in the West Bank. And for two years they've not used their power to stop it. So I'M convinced that the political. In order to have a political shift vis a vis Israel, there must be a political shift at the country level because governments are completely subdued to the, to the dictate of the U.S. of course, if the U.S. wanted, this will stop, but the U.S. with this constellation of figures in the government is not going to stop. And plus look at how the west in particular has contributed to dehumanize the Palestinians. Even today you hear people saying, yes, Palestinians have been killed in these numbers because they've been used as human shape when the only evidence that they've been used as human shields is against Israel because Israel has used Palestinians as human shields in the west bank and in Gaza alike. So you see Palestinians have returned to be wrapped into this colonial tropism of them being the savages, the barbarians. In a way, they have brought havoc upon themselves. This is the narrative that the west has used toward the Palestinians. And by doing that, it has created, they have created the fertile ground for Israel's impunity.
- [20:19]
A
Let's talk about the nations that you single out in your report that have continued to sustain the genocide, either through weapon shipments, but also the commercial interests. I think your previous report talked about the money that was being made off of the genocide. Just lay out the extent of that collaboration and to the extent that you can, the sums of money involved.
- [20:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. Let me start with introducing generally two components, the military component and the trade and investment ones, which are quite interrelated. And states have, in General, I name 62 states, primarily Western states, but with substantive collaboration of states from the global south, global majority, including some Arab states. So they have all together ignored, obscured and somewhat even profited from Israel's violations of international law through military and economic channels. So military cooperation through arms trades or intelligence sharing has fueled Israel's war machine during the occupation, the legal occupation, and especially during the genocide. While the United States and Germany alone have provided about 90% of Israel's arms export, at least 26 states have supplied or facilitated the transfer of arms or components, while many, many others have continued to buy weapons tested on the Palestinians. And this is why in my previous report, the ones looking at the private sector, I was shocked to see how much the Israeli stock exchange had gone up during the genocide. And this is particularly because of a growth in the military industry. On the other hand, there is the trade and investment sector. Both have sustained and profited from Israel's economy. Think that between 2023, 2024, actually end of 2022 and 2024, exports of electronics, pharmaceuticals, energy, minerals and what is called the dual use have totaled almost US$500 billion, helping Israel Finance its military occupation. Now, one third of this trade is with the European Union, while the rest is complemented by North American countries, the US and Canada, who have free trade agreements with Israel and several Arab states that have continued to deepen economic ties. Only a few states have marginally reduced trade during genocide. But in general, the indirect commercial flows, including with states that are supposedly, that have supposedly no diplomatic relation with Israel, have continued undisturbed. So it's a very green picture of the reality. But let me add just one extra element. I do believe that in many respects the problem is ideological. As I said, there is a tendency to see, to treat Ukraine, for example, vis a vis Russia in a very different fashion than Palestine versus Israel. And this is why I think there is an element of Orientalism that accompanies also the tragedy of the Palestine. Palestinian people.
- [24:40]
A
Talk a little bit about the kinds of weapons that have been shipped to Israel. These are, and we should be clear that of course, the Palestinians do not have a conventional army, they don't have a navy, they don't have an air force, they don't have mechanized units, including tanks, they don't have artillery. And yet the weapon shipments that are coming in are some of the most sophisticated armaments that are used in a conventional war. And as a leaked Israeli report, I think it was +972 provided 83% of the people killed in Gaza are civilians.
- [25:25]
B
Yes, yes. First of all, there are two things that are weapons. What is considered conventional weapons and dual use. And both should have been suspended according to the decision of the International Court of Justice concerning Israel in the Nicaragua vs Germany case. Meanwhile, the transfer of spare. There are two things. There is the sale of weapons or the transfer of weapons directly to Israel. And this includes aircraft materials to compose the drones. Because Israel doesn't produce anything on its own. It requires components. Artillery shells, for example, cannon, ammunition, rifles, anti tank missiles, bombs. These are all things that have been provided primarily by the United States. Germany, which is the, which is the largest, the second largest arms exporter to Israel, has supplied a range of weapons from frigates to torpedoes. And also. And then there is Italy, which has, which has also provided spare parts for bombs and airplanes. And the United Kingdom, who has played a key role in providing intelligence. And there is also the question of the un. Not everything is easy to track because the United States have traveled. The United States are the prime provider of weapons also because they are the assembler of the F35 program. So there are 17 or 19 countries which cooperate and all of them say well you know, I mean yes, I know that the F35 is used in, in Israel by Israel, but I only contribute to a small part. I only contribute to the wheels, I only contribute to the wings. I only provide these hooks or this engine. Well, everything is assembled in the US and then sold or transferred or gifted to Israel. And it's extremely problematic because this is why I say it's a collective crime because no one can assume the responsibility on their own. But eventually altogether they contribute to make this, to make this, I mean this genocide like implicating so many countries.
- [28:51]
A
So Francesca, Israel is the 9th largest arms exporter in the world. To what extent do those relationships have. I mean I think one of the largest purchaser of Israeli drones is India. And we've seen India shift its position vis a vis Palestine. Historically it's always stood with the Palestinian people. That's no longer true under Modi. To what extent do those ties affect the Response by the 63 Some states that you write about for collaborating with the genocide?
- [29:30]
B
Yeah, so let me first expand on this. Weapon and military technology sale is a core component of Israel's economy. And since 2024 it has been 1/3 of it has considered one third of Israeli exports. And of course this, there are two, there are two elements connected to this is that these exports enhances Israel's manufacturing capacity but also horribly worsens the life of the Palestinians because Israeli military military technology is tested on the, on the Palestinians under occupation or under or other people under other Israeli related military activities. Now the fact that the arms expert has increased of nearly 20% during the genocide, doubling toward Europe and account and, and only the trade with Europe accounts for 50% over 50% of Israel's military military sales. But selling to so many other countries including in the global south, the Asia and Pacific state in the states in the Asia Pacific region account for 23% of the of the purchase with India being the, probably the, the major but also 12% of the the weapons tested on the Palestinians are purchased by by Arab countries under the Hamra. So what does it tell us? It explains what you were hinting hinting in the question. The fact that this is also reflected in the political shift toward Israel that has been recorded at the General assembly level. If you see how some African countries and Asian countries including India are behaving vis a vis Israel, it's a total, it's 180 degree a turn compared to where they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. This is because on the one hand Israel is embedded in the, in the global economy, but also it's a global economy that is veering toward ultra liberal. I mean it's following ultra liberal ideologies and therefore capitals and wealth and accumulation of resources, including military power comes, comes first. It's very sad, but this is the reality and it's important to know because it has, this is a long. As I was hinting before, my sense is that this is a long term trajectory that didn't start on October 7, 2023. So I mean probably since the, the end of the Cold War that there has been an increasing, increasing globalization of the, of the system where the common denominator is force. I mean there is this, not the common denominator but the unifying factor for many is force. How the monopoly of force that is, that comes with, with weapons, capitals and algorithms and yeah, this is where the world is going.
- [33:12]
A
Well, we've seen these weapon systems which of course are tested. They're, they're, they're sold as they say the term is battle tested without naming the Palestinians. But they are sold to Greece to hold back migrants coming from North Africa. They are used along the border in the United States with Mexico. And it's not just that these weapons are quote unquote battle tested on the Palestinians and we haven't even spoken about these huge surveillance systems but the very methods of control, the way they're used are exported through military advisors.
- [33:57]
B
Of course because in fact Israel's, the Israeli population is made almost entirely of soldiers. Of course there are those who do not enlist in the army for religious reasons or because they are conscientious objectors. The tiny minority, but the majority of the people of Israelis go through the army and then many of them transfer their know how or what they have been doing into their next career steps. So the fact that Israel, as I was documenting in my previous report, Israel Startup Economy is, has a huge dark side. The fact that is connected to the military industry and to the surveillance industry and the Israeli is, I mean there are, there is a significant body of Israeli citizens who are going around providing advice, intelligence and training in the global south. I mean both to mercenaries and states proper like Morocco and yeah, so there is an Israelization and palestinization of the international relations or rather of the relations between individuals and states. And the interesting thing this is why I'm saying Palestine is such a revealer is because as you say, eventually these tools of control and securitization have concentrated in the hands of those who are fortifying borders at the expense of refugees and migrants. So it's really clear what's happening here. There are oligarchs who are getting more and richer and richer and more and more protected in their fortresses where the state is providing the fertile ground to have it. But it's not states that are benefiting from this inequality because the majority of the people within states, look at the US but also in Europe are not benefiting from anything. In fact they're victims. This is why you equally exploited. This is why I'm saying it's another degree of suffering of course than the Palestinians. But every worker today should see, should draw a lesson from what's happening to the Palestinians because the large injustice system is connected and makes all of us connected to what's happening there.
- [36:51]
A
Well internally as well. I mean with Sikh farmers who are protesting Modi were out, you know, on the roads. Suddenly over their heads were Israeli made drones dropping tear gas cannons.
- [37:06]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Drones are one of the most exported devices from Israel's technology and they are in use in by Frontex to surveil the Mediterranean Sea or yeah as you were saying the, the U.S. mexican border. But more and more they're getting into people's life. Look at the way they have been, also look at the way certain technologies have been perfected across border. I remember earlier this summer, this is very anecdotal, I've not done research on it but, but I knew that we were seeing something quite and horribly revolutionary this year during the, this summer during the protests in Serbia where students and ordinary citizens were taken to the streets against the government and they've been protesting for one year now. People in Serbia I saw the use of these, these sound weapons, oxygen fed weapons. So there is, there are bombs that produce such a pain in the body who finds itself in the, in the wave that, that it, it's, it's excruciating. And then of course people try to flee but they also lose senses etc And I've seen this in Serbia and now I understand that it's being used in Gaza as well where the, the bomb doesn't produce fire, it produces a movement of, of of air that causes pain to the body and to the, to even to internal organs. It's, it's incredible. And these are weapons that have been perfected through the, through testing here and there and Serbia keeps on selling and buying military technology to and from Israel.
- [39:07]
A
I just want to close with, I mean I think your Reports, the last two reports in particular show the complete failure on the part of governments as well as corporations to respond legally in terms of their legal obligations to the genocide. What do we do now? You know, what must be done, to quote Lenin. How? Because this, as you have pointed out repeatedly, really presages the complete breakdown of the rule of law. What as citizens, must we do?
- [39:40]
B
I think that we have passed the alarm area. I mean, we are really in a critical place. And I sense it because instead of correcting itself, the system led by governments is accentuating its authoritarian traits. Think of the repressive measures that the UK government is taking against protesters, against civil society, against journalists standing in solidarity with Palestine or just for justice in Palestine, in France and in Italy at the same time, conferences and academic freedom. Sorry, academic freedom is shrinking. And in the same days, conferences of reputable historians, military and legal experts have been canceled owing to the pressure of the pro genocide groups, pro Israel groups in their respective countries. And people, including in Germany, are being persecuted, including academics, for their own exercise of free speech. This tells me that there is very little pretense that Western states, the so called liberal democracies, the most attached to this idea of democracy, are ready to defend for real. So in this sense, it's up to us citizens, be vigilant, to be vigilant and to make sure that we do not buy products connected or services connected to the legality of the occupation, the apartheid and the genocide. And there are various organizations that collect lists of companies and entities, including universities, that are connected to this unlawful endeavor. BDS is one don't buy into the occupation of who profits profundo, but also students associations. And this is something that is very touching because it's really the work of students, faculty members and staff that has mapped what each university does. And I think it gives the possibility to act everyone in our own domain. Then of course there is a need to speak about Palestine, to make choices about Palestine. And not because everything needs to revolve around Palestine, but because Palestine today is a metaphor of our life. And where our life is going to go is clearly evident in this. But also we need to make sure that businesses divest people have to step away and stop using platforms like airbnb or booking.com I know that Amazon is very convenient, but guys, we might also return to buy books in libraries, ordering books through libraries. Of course not all of us can, but many do. Many can on the way to work, buy a book in a library, order a book in a bookstore. And so we need to reduce our reliance on the tools that have been used, that have been perfected through the slaughter of the Palestinians, and, of course, make government accountable. There are lawyers, association and jurists who are taking government officials to courts, businesses to courts. But again, I do I do not think that there is one strategy that is going to be the the winning one. It's the plurality of actions from a plurality of actors that is going to produce results and slow down the genocide and then help dismantle the occupation and the apartheid. It's a long trajectory, and the fight has just started.
- [43:51]
A
Great. Thank you, Francesco. And I want to thank Thomas, Diego, Max, and Sophia who produced the show. You can find me at chrishedges.substack.com thank.
- [44:05]
B
You very much, Sam.