America Is In A Spiritual War | Ep. 57

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: America Is In A Spiritual War | Ep. 57
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton (with extended guest commentary, primarily by David Rutherford)

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Episode Overview

This episode, titled "America Is In A Spiritual War," dives deeply into the escalating perception of a "spiritual war" in America and the West. The show centers on societal and cultural conflict—from the assassination of Charlie Kirk to broader debates about morality, faith, and the survival of Western civilization. With intelligence and intensity, the hosts break down how current events are evidence of a growing battle not just of politics, but of spiritual and moral frameworks. They challenge listeners to identify and defend what they believe in—framing this as both a personal and national imperative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning of "Spiritual War" and Historical Context

[03:13–11:18]

• The concept of "spiritual war" is explored as a conflict not just of people or ideologies, but as a struggle against "principalities and darkness and spirits."
• The hosts recount historical examples—ranging from the Reconquista to the Civil War—showing that claims of moral or spiritual warfare are a recurring societal phenomenon.
• "We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits that there's a spiritual war here." (G, 03:13)

David Rutherford contextualizes the current climate—mass protests, violence, loss of faith—with references to history, arguing that society cyclically faces these moral crises.

2. Moral Relativism and Its Societal Dangers

[19:33–27:09]

• The idea of moral relativism—where right and wrong vary by culture or belief, rather than adhering to absolute values—is blamed for America's crisis.
• Discussed philosophers: Protagoras, Foucault, Sartre—identified as roots of the notion that "man is the measure of all things."
• Historic divisions, such as between North and South in the Civil War or disputes within Christianity, are cited as evidence that claims of the "moral high ground" repeatedly divide societies.

Quote:
"The war is against those who have a strong moral interpretation or courageousness, those willing to stand up for that grander sense of morality. Right versus those who want to profess a level of moral relativism." (A, ~11:55)

3. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk & The Impact on Faith

[13:49–16:22; 27:09–29:52]

• Charlie Kirk is described as a political operative and a man of deep Christian faith, recently assassinated—a flashpoint for the conversation about faith under attack.
• His worldview is presented (in a clip with Tucker Carlson and via the show's recounting) as evidence the battle is spiritual, not just political.

Quote:
"Faith is the most important thing because for those of us that are Christians, it doesn't drive you crazy. You actually see what's going on…" (Charlie Kirk, 27:09)

4. Key Distinctions Under Attack: The Divine Framework

[29:52–35:39]

• Kirk's and the hosts' analysis: the erosion of societal distinctions is seen as Satanic chaos—distinctions such as male/female, holy/profane, child/adult are depicted as foundational and currently "under attack."
• The hosts argue that the blurring or destruction of these distinctions is a hallmark of the present crisis.

Quote:
"Our God is a God of order. And order only comes with distinctions. And distinctions are necessary." (Charlie Kirk, 28:54)

5. Debating Police Violence Statistics & Narrative Distortion

[34:45–35:39]

• The show challenges narratives about police violence, using statistics to argue that media manipulation creates a sense of chaos and disorder and drives further division.
• Asserts that distorting these facts is a tool in the "spiritual war" by undermining shared reality and moral order.

6. Core Institutions and Frameworks Under Siege

[35:39–42:47]

• The family, parent-child relationships, and the boundaries around childhood itself are presented as battlegrounds:
  • E.g., "insidious state of immorality" seen in laws allowing children greater autonomy in irreversible decisions.
  • Classic biblical stories (e.g., Sodom and Gomorrah) are revisited as allegories for modern societal decay.
• Argues that when foundational bonds like family and childhood are eroded, social cohesion—and ultimately civilization—are at risk.

Quote:
"The most sacred bond that exists...is between a parent and their children, child and the need, the necessity, the innate. I'll tell you one thing, man—if my children were ever hurt...all bets are off. I completely say, you know what, I'm done playing by the rules..." (A, 39:27)

7. How to "Fight Back" Against Spiritual Decay

[45:56–53:48]

• Calls for action: The spike in Turning Point USA chapters (33,000 requests) and increased church attendance are cited as positive grassroots responses.
• The host introduces a personal belief-mapping exercise—challenging listeners to spend an hour writing out their beliefs, sharing and teaching them to loved ones.
• Emphasizes rooting one's values in something solid (e.g., faith in Jesus Christ), contrasting this to building on "sand," which is destabilizing in a crisis.

Quote:
"You cannot begin to wage that war unless you know, know distinctly...what you believe in and why." (A, 51:58)

8. Responding to Persecution: Biblical Guidance

[53:48–55:44]

• Co-host Jordy shares pivotal Bible passages as guides:
  • John 15:20: "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
  • Matthew 5:44: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
  • James 1:2–3: "Consider it pure joy…whenever you face trials…because the testing of your faith produces perseverance."
  • Romans 12:19: "Do not take revenge…leave room for God's wrath…It is mine to avenge, I will repay, says the Lord."
• Encourages listeners to use scripture both as motivation and as a practical framework for enduring and fighting back against cultural and moral decay.

9. Final Reflections & Urgent Call to Action

[55:44–60:53]

• Listeners are called not just to action, but to self-examination: To know why they fight, what they value, and to ground their lives in faith and clear standards.
• The ultimate weapon in this war, according to the hosts, is the "Word"—the words of Jesus Christ—as the antidote to chaos and disorder.

Quote:
"If you’re going to fight this spiritual warfare, start by using the word. And that’s the word of Jesus Christ." (A, 59:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits that there's a spiritual war here." (G, 03:13)
• "Faith is the most important thing because for those of us that are Christians, it doesn't drive you crazy. You actually see what's going on..." (Charlie Kirk, 27:09)
• "Our God is a God of order. And order only comes with distinctions. And distinctions are necessary." (Charlie Kirk, 28:54)
• "You cannot begin to wage that war unless you know, know distinctly...what you believe in and why." (A, 51:58)
• "The ultimate weapon...is the 'Word'—the words of Jesus Christ—as the antidote to chaos and disorder." (A, 59:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:13 – Spiritual warfare framing: principalities, darkness, and faith
• 11:55 – Moral relativism explained and critiqued
• 27:09 – Charlie Kirk’s take on the spiritual war and societal distinctions
• 34:45 – Police violence statistics; media and narrative distortion
• 35:39 – Analysis of the attack on family and child autonomy
• 45:56 – Calls to action: personal belief-mapping, Turning Point USA response
• 53:48 – Applying scripture to persecution and spiritual war
• 55:44 – Final reflections, call to assess and defend one's core beliefs

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Takeaways

This episode is a rallying cry to recognize, contend with, and respond to what the hosts and guests see as an existential spiritual and societal struggle. Listeners are urged to ground themselves in faith, to clarify their values, and to become proactive in defense of their beliefs—both spiritually and civically—in what the hosts repeatedly call "a time of moral and cultural crisis." The invocation to use the "Word" (i.e., scripture) is the central prescription for survival and resistance during what they characterize as an era of mounting chaos.

Transcript

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We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits that there's a spiritual war here.

[A]

People say constantly we're at war and we're at war between good and evil. Well, what exactly is spiritual warfare? Today on the David Rutherford Show. What's up team? Here's the deal man. I just, before I get into this, because this is going to be one of the heaviest probably shows I've done in a long, long time. Before I get into that, I just want to just bring your attention to the fact that we have some wonderful [e-mail] and the Frog Logic Institute where I teach people how to embrace fear, how to forge their self confidence and how to live a team life. And again, this is that I have been working on for the past 30 years, really trying to figure out what components of the human condition enable us as individuals or as teams to succeed or what drives failure. So I promise you if you take this, you'll enjoy it, your kids will enjoy it, you'll enjoy it. In particular in the so called spiritual war that we're engaged in right now. I truly believe that this is information that'll help you wage that war. Also, if you're interested, sign up for my book which is going to be released over the holidays. It's called the Poet Warrior where I really kind of dig into this kind of concept that I'm going to share about today about a young man's trials and tribulations, trying to f find answers for what it really means. What's the, what's the meaning of life and what's the meaning of death? And also we really would love it if you would, you know, like subscribe and more. Leave comments but more importantly, share. If this episode hits you and it hits you heavily, share it with somebody that you think needs to hear it. That's what Jordy and I really want. The other stuff is great and all that, but all we want is, is if you know somebody that's struggling, that's in a tough spot because of everything that's going on Just because of the world that we're engaged in, you know, that we're currently living in and they're strugg. Please, if you think this episode had any, any modicum of. Of. Of positivity or motivation in it that you think can help somebody, just share it. Just, just press, press copy link and send it to somebody that you care about and. Because that's what really Jordy and I want. All right, so for the week, it's been a pretty remarkable week. I mean, we've, we've seen reactions that are, are, are dramatic. We've seen people wanting to move on already. But the, the, the, the, you know, the real interesting aspect of this whole thing is that I continue to kind of, you know, see this idea that there's a war taking place right now, right? And, and some of those people are saying, all right, hey, let's not stoop to their level. Let's not, let's not move to a place where violence is acceptable or, or, or that we are going to be Dr. The, the, the, the sewers of morality in fight fire with fire, right? And then we've all. I've seen another couple posts from, you know, people from my world saying, you know what, here's the deal. You want to end this right now. You know, just let the gwat guys give them a month to go after and prosecut, prosecute certain targets with a full pardon after, and we'll be over and through this whole thing, right? We've seen other more metaphysical or theological arguments like let's not lower our faith to that level because that's, that's where they want to take us, right? They want to break us down from staying on the high ground of our morality of our faith. You know, and then it's. There are other people, you know, that I paying attention to who actively are talking about Christendom and, and how Christian Christendom was the very thing that allow Western civilization to emerge, right? It was Christendom, right, With the Reconquista of the Spaniards and the Iberian Peninsula fighting back the, in the, the, the cr. The Intifada and the Muslim Crusades in the seven hundreds all the way, you know, through modern times. And what we're seeing on the, the, the streets of, of London earlier in the weekend where, you know, roughly a million people were saying, all right, unite the kingdom, right? And this is a kingdom that was built upon those Western ideas of, you know, and I, I think, you know what, ultimately what I keep hearing things over and over again and whether I'm seeing it on, you know, on, on one side versus the other, that there's a war going on. Right. I think one side frames it as. It's a war against, against nature. It's a war against the oppressed. It's a marginalized. It's a war against those that have forever been disillusioned or disrespected. You know, and then I see the other side of it is like, this is a, this is a war against good and evil, right? And then, or, or framed out in, in this capacity, we're in the midst of a spiritual war. Now, that's heavy stuff right there. When you begin to start to imagine what a spiritual war might look like, I think, you know, there's a lot of different times throughout history where this term has been leveraged as a rallying cry, if you will, to, to wake up and face the, the, the presence of evil, if you will. Now what is that? Is, like I said, is it a battle between good and right and left? Is it a battle between good and evil? And is it a battle between God and Satan? Right? And, and those are the, the questions that I think are the most natural when you begin to reference this as a spiritual war, as so many people are wanting to do right now. You know, and the hard thing is to distill this down into something that's manageable in particular for, for those of you who aren't, how shall we say, true believers, if you will. Right. Maybe that's even a little bit harsh, right? Maybe it's like you're not utterly convinced as to what the Gospels or the Old Testament talk about in terms of this endless battle between right and wrong, between God and the fallen angels, if you will, right? This, this demonic nature of society that has once again reared its ugly head. Because that's, that's the, that's the reality. This is nothing that's new, right. You can date it as far back as the oldest civilizations that we have that felt like they were in a spiritual war as back as ancient Assyrians, right? You go through modern times and, you know, you've got the 20th century and you had, you know, you had communism versus that which was not communism. And a lot of people want to automatically aggregate it towards capitalism, but I think it was much deeper. It was against organized religion itself. Right. You know, and so I think what it is is it's those, the war is against those who have a strong moral interpretation or courageousness, right? Those willing to stand up for that grander sense of morality. Right versus Those who want to profess a level of moral relativism. You know, in my last podcast, the Frog Logic podcast, I did a. About moral relativism. It's an interesting. Go check it out. Just look up the Frog Logic podcast. Moral relativism, you know, in, in moral relativism is the idea that ethical principles aren't fixed or universally true, but depend on individual cultures, societies or personal belief. It suggests right and wrong can vary depending on the context, sex. Now, you know, this is a powerful thing to even begin to contemplate because I think so many people, and why so many people are struggling right now is they're, they're, they're going, wait a minute, we just witnessed targeted ass. A targeted assassination against. Yeah, certainly Charlie was a, a political operative, as J.D. vance called him. You know, one of the most prestigious or adapt or adroit political operative opera operators when he hosted his, the Charlie Kirk show from his office, which I thought was really interesting and phenomenal to see that level of support, you know, but what, what you have is you also have a man that believed fully, was invested in his faith in Jesus Christ and you know, the moral structure that he has extrapolated from his belief, his true belief that Christ was the Messiah and that he died for our sins and was resurrected and ascended to heaven at the right hand of God, the Almighty Right. And so through that creates this sense of morality within the word of Christ. And you can argue that, you know, there are many statements Christ made that said we're not getting rid of all the old stuff too in the Old Testament, those structures, but we're gonna, we're gonna enhance those. 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[A]

Well, you know, when I again, just to give a deeper frame or reference for the term moral relativism, you know, there's no one singular person that invented this. It didn't have a specific philosopher or theologian or metaphysics or you know, existentialist that, that had it. But it's, it's been a concept that's been percolating for thousands of years. You know, one of the great places that I, when I just looked it up today, they mention Grok, mentioned a Greek philosopher, Protagoras, around 490 BC and he famously said this man is the measure of all things. Which hints at the concept, right? And that essentially is saying that you as the individual, you build your own framework of sovereignty, right? What are you sovereign to? You know, is it a ideological environment, Is it a political environment, Is it theological environment? Or is it just your own interpretation of existence yourself? You know, now beyond that, moral relativism is really kind of emerged within the philosophical ideas of postmodernism. And you've got great postmodernists like Foucault, existentialists like John Paul Sartre, Franz Boas, you know, all highlighting the diverse nature of moral codes which exist across societies themselves. Now, we all feel this, absolutely, especially, especially as within our American culture, right. And there's been a history of divisions within our own American culture. But, you know, if you're an American, you travel overseas, which I have, you know, and I'm not, you know, going to the, the most cordial places culturally for Americans. But you know, when I was in Afghanistan multiple times over a 10 year period and in Pakistan and some other Muslim countries, it was very distinct. But I even saw, mult, know, different cultural ideas within, you know, my time in Azerbaijan, my time in Afghanistan, in different regions in Afghanistan, my time in Pakistan, my time in Kuwait or Bahrain. Right. You see, there are even differences within Muslim, in Islam itself, and there are differences in Judaism, there are differences in Christianity. I mean, hell, look at the division between the Catholic and Protestant churches back in the day, right? I mean, the thirty years war, right? These are conflicts that have been taking place. And you can say this wherever you go, where all around the world, you know, but I think these postmodernistic ideas about moral relativism, you know, it's, it begins to infect the masses in particular, if you're able to generate a narrative around that, that, that those who believe they're on this moral high ground or this, this, this biblical high ground, if you will know, their interpretation of it is oppressive to you. And I think, you know, we've seen that even take place in our background as well too. Right? We've seen that in the Civil War, right. Both sides, whether you were from the south or from the north, were arguing that we were in a spiritual war. Right, right. And you had people in the south that said, hey, you're taking slavery, which back then was probably one of the most common practices historically around the world, right? You know, was like, hey, this is the way things are. And you're taking away our core beliefs, our morality, if you will, and a lot of it was based on a higher moral structure of Christian beliefs. And then on the other side, you have the abolitionists and you had, you know, the progressive modern ideologies of the north and the industrialists saying, no, you know, all men are created equal and that's, that's God's rights. Those are the inalienable rights that every man has. But they both believed they were in this moral high ground. They were both believed that they were in the spiritual warfare. And that's where I think things really begin to get confusing for so many people. That shooter who assassinated Charlie Kirk, he felt like he was in the moral high ground. He felt like what he was doing was, was, was acting under his cause. Right. I think you also feel like the, the gentleman who stabbed that poor Ukrainian girl. Right. He obviously is like, I am not beholden to any moral structure. Right. Because we don't know what he said other than the comments before when he went, I, I got that white girl. Right. That's all we know. But we know what his philosophical ideas, other than the fact that it was acceptable to murder somebody because he didn't like them, we, or the color of their skin, we don't know. Right. But what my point of all that is to say is, for those of you out there that are trying to figure out what this spiritual war is looking like, you gotta recognize that the people that are on both sides, all sides, however many sides there are, they believe their stance is the appropriate stance, is the right stance. And so what begins to happen? Well, all you got to do is look throughout history when societies that are beginning to pull at the center of what that moral structure looks like, things begin to devolve pretty rapidly. Right. And you can see this, the Roman Empire towards the end, you can see it in the 20th century. Right. You can see it in all these different places. And what begins to happen is those that have the high ground, that understand the nature of evil and understand what? Society or not society, it's deeper than that. Maybe civilization, I didn't even think it's deeper than civilization, Civilization itself. Right. These are, these are the, the tribal, iterable behavioral activities that have kept certain groups alive through the centuries right through, through the millennium. Right. Why do certain tribes last and other tribes don't? Well, because those tribes are willing to fight this spiritual war horror. You know, one of the things as I was contemplating, you know, this, this, this show, you know, I, I, one of the things that really provoked it was there was a presentation that Charlie Kirk did with Tucker Carlson a while back and where he talked specifically about it and, and, and Jordy, why don't you, why don't you play that whole thing, right, the clip I sent you right now. Now, sure.

[G]

Faith is the most important thing because for those of us that are Christians, it doesn't drive you crazy. You actually see what's going on, which is that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and darkness and spirits, that there is a spiritual war here. And you're right, Tucker. I find people in this space that are not anchored to faith, anchored to Jesus, they do lose their mind.

[A]

Mind.

[G]

Because there is no rational or reasonable explanation for what the country is doing to itself or what we are experiencing. But if you then see and you know that there is a God and we are not him, that there is an entire dimension of angels and demons and spirits that are constantly struggling around us, and that there is a supernatural dimension, as you mentioned, all of a sudden that doesn't make sense. That does. It does not make any rational sense to shut down your schools so you can sacrifice the kids so the elderly can live. That makes no sense whatsoever. It makes no sense whatsoever to keep your marijuana dispensaries open and your alcohol shops open. But the church non essential. Only a demonic enterprise would do such a thing. Only a demonic enterprise would say that Easter and Pentecost are non essential. But race rioting and burning down a Wendy's is a central activity. And Tucker, you talk about this a lot. For those of us that know the truth, we know that our God is a God of order and distinction. What is the first thing that God did in the Hebrew scriptures? It says well, and also our scripture in the original Genesis, Beresheet, which is in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and then he separated and he made sense. He made order out of chaos. Our God is a God of order. And order only comes with distinctions. And distinctions are necessary. Think about all the distinctions that God set up in the first six books of Genesis that are currently under attack. The distinction between male and female, the distinction between man and nature, the distinction between the holy and the profane, the distinction between good and evil, the distinction between infant and adult. These distinctions have always been what Western civilization were built upon. But it is Satan's goal to blur and eventually destroy those distinctions. Because those distinctions of which we get order and you do not have that order, then you have the closest thing to Satanic chaos here.

[A]

All right, so you watch that. And he breaks it down in this really unique way right by the. With this idea of the war of principalities, darkness and spirits. Now, I know a lot of times people will see people talk about demons and angels in that capacity, and they'll be like, hey, man, you just lost me there. Like, I get there's an attack on morality. I get that. I feel that. I mean, I'm appalled at what I'm seeing, but why are you able to describe it like that? And you know, you know, I think when you begin to think about what principalities mean, right? Principalities are often understood in theology as a high ranking spiritual beings or powers, usually fallen angels or demonic forces that rule over specific regions or areas of influence. Ephesians 6:12 in the Bible talks about wrestling not just with flesh and blood, but with principalities, powers and rulers in darkness. Now theologians like Thomas Aquinas saw them as part of a hierarchy of angels, but when fallen they opposed God's order, influencing human affairs and requiring spiritual resistance through prayer and faith. That's the core of it from a theological standpoint point. So when you listen to, to Charlie talk about this and what we're w. Witnessing and you heard him, you talk about how it makes no sense, right to shut the schools down to in impede or, and destroy young children to protect the, the elder, a small portion of the elderly, right? And it made no sense to keep those dispensaries and liquor stores open and close the churches unless there was an all out assault on the places that we knew morality kept in check. It makes no sense to keep families apart in death, but allow the mobs to destroy the, the, the community by professing some ridiculous fact that certain ethnic minorities are under assault, right? And all you got to do is look at you know, those on the, the street interviews of people going up in these rallies and saying, you know, FBI crime statistics and said hey, do you, do you know how many in or you know, unarmed black men were killed by police officers in 2019? And they're like 10,000, 5,000, 7,000. The reality it was 27. I think it was 27 people. I think that pretty sure somewhere around there. But it was such a deimous number and it's like 3.5 million contacts with officers and people in the country every year. Some, some a staggering. I might even actually Jory, look at how many, how many contacts with law enforcement and people take place annually in the United States. You know, but you, you, you see what people, what happens is there's a distortion of, of I don't know, the truth, statistics, whatever. And what ends up happening is people start to exist within that, that the loose structure of morality and, or justification and, and, and all it takes is a little bit of chaos in a person's framework, right to get, begin to, to tear down the order with which they construct. Right. Hardcore morality. And that's really the battle, right? I think Jordan Peterson talks about it pretty extensively, which is the battle between order and chaos. You know, when he, the ideation of, he's got this beautiful lecture about the ideation of God, right, in the first book of Genesis. And what that metaphorically is saying is that all humanity is perpetually wrestling with that fact, right? And I Think Charlie clearly defined that. Right. By his commentary about distinctions between different things. And the distinctions are what create the framework that we build morality against out of right. Instead of the chaos, the destruction, or the pulling apart of those things which hold the fabric of society or civilization together. You know, for you, if you want. Yeah, let me hear it. Let's hear it.

[H]

So per year, police contacts with people ages 16 and up are around 50 to 60 million people per year. And in 2019, like you referenced, out of about 14 people shot and killed by police, 13 unarmed black people were shot and killed.

[A]

How many white people were shot and killed, Killed by unarmed white dudes? That might be the 27th. So it's 13 black people. Unarmed blacks were killed by police officers in 2019. Wow. Okay.

[H]

Yeah. So it's got to be a lot more than 13. It looks like at least 421 people were shot and killed by the police who were known to be unarmed. But it's not giving me specifics other.

[A]

Than whether they were white. Yeah, okay.

[H]

A lot more. I'll just.

[A]

A lot more. And that. And that makes sense by population as well, too. But 13 is a pretty low number. Again, going back to the. How these statistics are pushed off to build into these narratives. Right. You know, and, and one of the things that I really. That hit me heavily in that clip that you watched with him, right. It. It's this. It's this attack on the framework, right. And he talks about the first six books of Genesis. Right? It's attack on a framework. And, and when you think about this, even if you're not religious in nature, you know, what are the fundamental truths? What are the truths that, you know, hold it together. Because right now I think everybody is feeling like, oh, my God, civilization's unraveling, society's unraveling. There's a race war, there's a religion war, religious war, there's a political war. There's a war between the poor and the rich, the elites. There's all these wars taking place. And so what are the foundational things that are. That are emerging out of that? Right. We see there's a war. There's. There's people that want to tear down the, the, the. The most pinnacle thing of, of all of it, Right. Which is the distinct difference between a man and a woman and what those roles are, you know, and, and if you're not, if you don't believe in, in. In Adam and Eve or, or, or. Or that. And you are an evolutionary biologist or you're an evolutionist, Right. What you do recognize eyes is, is all right, even then that biology is intact, right? So what happens? What that's, I mean that's the pinnacle. If you start tearing that apart, you, you tear apart the fabric of, of, of existence itself and there's a concerted effort to tear apart that. Now if you're a person and you want to believe whatever you want to believe about yourself, that's good, but you're not going to force me to believe it, right? I'm not going to assault you or attack you or dispel you unless you cross the line, right? By, by forcing my hand, forcing my mind, you're forcing me to submit to your ideology or, or as, as em talks about your psychosis or your pharma. What he calls it the, I forget right now. But you know your underlying component of where you are psychologically, Right. The other is like the idea that somehow children can make decisions for themselves. Right? To go in there and pull children away from their parents to create an idea that children are independent in their thinking capabilities. But yet all the science proves that a human being's mind isn't even fully developed or they're 26 to 29 years old. But we want a 10 year old girl or boy to make a decision to irreparably damage their physical selves, their mental cells, their emotional cells. And, and now you look at some of the laws that have been just passed in California, it's I, that that is breaking down the framework of the most, I think the most sacred bond that exists, right? Which is between a parent and their children, child and the need, the necessity, the, the innate. I'll tell you one thing man, if my children were ever hurt or child or anything like that, it, it, I, I, like all bets are off. I, I, I completely say, you know what, I'm done, I'm done playing by the rules, the moral rules. Because you break the, you broke the covenant covenant, which is children are the most protected class in the planet. But somehow, some way there is a, an insidious state of immorality, moral relavistic, you know, ideology that's trying to infect my children with this, this breakdown of, of these sacred structures. Right?

[H]

Well, what's strange is that it's only, it's selectively giving children authority over their own decisions. They can't buy, they can't buy alcohol. They can't join the military, can't buy a gun, can't do all kinds, can't rent a car.

[A]

That's right.

[H]

But they can make certain Other decisions about their hormonal makeup.

[A]

That's right. That's right. And that's intentional, Right? Right. Because you all. You want to give them enough power to. To crack those that are holding together this moral framework, this spiritual framework, right? Then you have the holy verse, the profane that he calls, right? And that's the old Sodom and Gomorrah story, right? That's when you see, you know, these areas of complete decadence and decay, societal decay. What happens when. When there's no more rules, the people that are. Are. Are devout in nature, they suffer the most and they become victims of this. This decay, right? This moral decay, this unrestricted, unregulated moral decay.

[H]

I might. I might frame that slightly just to switch it a little bit.

[D]

I don't.

[H]

I think that it's not that you get rid of the holy. I think that you just replace it, right? You start worshiping when you. When you. When you. When you flip the good and the true and the beautiful things as what we worship, and we start worshiping things like power, money, sex, things like that.

[A]

And you flip the golden calf.

[H]

That's your golden calf, right? And the pain is now the good.

[A]

That's right.

[H]

It's interesting. It's more of an inversion.

[A]

And. And what. What I think. What. I think the big struggle with people right now is. Is, you know, and I think Covid, you know, broke something loose because people began to realize, whoa, the institutions that we have been growing up to believe are. Are IND Or. Or. Or what is the word I'm looking for? That are sacred. Right, Right. That are sacred. Now we know. Oh, they're not sacred. And so I think that's what's taking place. And people are trying to figure out, well, what. What is taking. Is there a war? What kind of war is coming? Why are there people intentionally trying to promote pornography, drug use, open calls for violence? I mean, it's remarkable to see the magnitude of. Of people that applauded the assassination of Charlie, right? And how, like, more people are calling for who's next and who's. Who's going to. Who's. Who do we get next? I mean. I mean, that's what this is, right? And they believe they have the moral high ground.

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[A]

You know, I think the next question really is, all right, how do we fight back or how do you fight back? I know how I fight back, but I want to know how people want to know. How am I supposed to fight back? One of the greatest things that we saw as a result the last week is we saw this magnificent rise in action, right? 33,000 requests into Turning Point USA to start new new organizations and schools and universities all across the country. 33,000 requests. 33. Love that, right? Old crisis age when he sacrificed for our beliefs.

[H]

To put that in perspective, I think the existing ones were in the low thousand thousands.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I mean, this is a staggering number. Staggering, right? I, I, I'm, I want to know what the numbers are for first time church attendees, right? There are all these videos out there about people putting on suits and going into church for the first time. I know dozens of people I know that were like, we're going to church this weekend. So that alone is phenomenal. You know, I, I think that's the first place you fight back is, is to clearly establish what you believe in to define your beliefs. Now I do this exercise with my, my private coaching clients sometimes because every now and then, you know, one of my clients is, you know, as I said before, I focus on the physical, the mental, the emotional and the spiritual. And most people never even want to touch their spiritual, you know, identities at. It's just, it's very difficult. You have to take these blind leaps of faith. And I think a lot of people are afraid of that. But so the, the exercise I do is, is I have people in one hour, right? Go up, get a whiteboard or a giant poster board, sit down in a quiet space, get rid of your phone, get everybody out. Just sit there calmly and in one hour, draw out or write out your belief systems or your belief system, right? What do you actually believe in? So for me, I would start in the middle, I draw, you know, this, this, I draw this, you know, rectangle or, or, or square, if you will. And I, in the middle of that square, I would put Jesus Christ, right? And so in that square, then all of a sudden I come off and I, I write these other things in there. And so for me, how I built that out as I had, right? I had Peter, I had Paul, I had the apostles, right? And then I had Christ's word himself, right? And so there all of a sudden there now off that what are their stories? And then from there, where does it go? And then over here, I do A foundation, maybe a pillar of family, right? I do a pillar of family. What does family mean? Right? Right? Then I do within that pillar, I say, all right, how do I, how do I teach or train my children? Right? Over here, I go up my pillar as a husband. What does it mean to be a husband? Right? Then my pillar over here as a friend, like, what are my responsibilities? What type of messaging, what type of support do I give the people I love most, right? And that's everything from how do I lift them up, how do I give them grace, how do I give them a second chance, Right? How do I, how do I teach them, how do I lead them, how do I, how do I follow, follow them? Right? And then over here, how do I do that in a community, right? How do I do that with my meaning in life, right? And then from there, well, what, what is the meaning of my life and what do I need? What is my purpose? Right? And because I know the foundation is Jesus Christ is pretty, pretty quick to get to the place. Well, my meaning and purpose in life is to talk about Jesus Christ and how it can impact you in a positive way, how it can give you redemption because he died for your sins, right? So within that, right, how do I rehabilitate my own sinful mind? Because certainly, man, I have been a sinner in my life. There's no doubt I have sinned my life, like horrifically sinned. And I'm not here to judge any other sinner, but what I am here to do is I build out this, this, this picture of my belief systems. And then the second part of that, once you've done that exercise, right, then I want you to bring in your children, your spouse, a friend, a loved one, I don't care who it is. And I want you to teach them in one hour your belief systems. Because when you teach somebody what you believe in, you're testing your knowledge faith, your knowledge base, right? You're testing whether or not you've really thought through this structure, this foundation. Foundation. And so often I think that's why we see such a mental health crisis in this country is that people's foundations are built upon sand. And we understand, based on the parable of the sower of seeds, we recognize that when you try and plant seeds in the sand, what happens? Or you try and build the foundation of your church in sand, what happens? And that's the problem. People aren't sure what they believe in. So that's what you have to do, right? Because once you have that core system, those Beliefs. Now you know what's worth fighting for. Now you know how you're going to begin to wage war, right? Or, or better yet, you know why you're going to wage war. The how is the next step, right? But you know why you're going to wage war for what? Because of these pillars, because of this foundation. You know what's important, you know, the virtues and the value systems. You understand, the certain core tenants or principles or the, the, the, the different verses that you pin to these different things, right? To get in that scripture and to recognize, hey, this is the structure. Because so often, here's the deal in the world we live in, man, there's so many things pulling you away from that, and that's the spiritual warfare on the other side, side, that temptation, the temptation for money, the temptation for power, the temptation for the easy way, the temptation for lust or greed or whatever it is, man. That thing that pulls you away from that foundation. And that's what it is, man. But you cannot begin to wage that war unless you know, know distinctly. And that's what Charlie Kirk talks about, the distinctions. Unless you know distinctly what you believe in and why. So as you're trying to figure out, you know, how to wage this war and how to fight back against this persecution of ideas, you know, one of the things that goes back to the idea of that word and where it comes from and what it can do for, for you, you know, is to, is to get into that, the, those verses, get into that scripture. So, you know, Jordy, I know you, you always talk about those verses, you know, and I know before we got on, you talked about some, some ideas about how do you combat that persecution. So what, what do you got, man? What are some of the, the verses that really stand out for you?

[H]

Yeah, it's confusing for everyone and no one really knows where to start if you're honest with yourself. And so a great place to start is just, just to see what the Bible itself talked about about persecution. I think the first thing is that, to note that persecution was predicted in John 15:20. It's, it says, remember what I told you, A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. That was Jesus Christ. So it's common. The Bible also talks about strength in persecution. This is the Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life. Of whom shall I be afraid? Next is talking about how we should respond to persecution. This is Matthew 5:44. Love your enemies. And pray for those who persecute you. It's probably the hardest one to hear from right now. Pray for the people that persecute you.

[A]

Absolutely.

[H]

And there's messages about hope and persecution. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. Now I've just got two more quick ones that I think are really nice. How should we think about persecution? This is James, one of my favorite verses in the Bible. James, chapter one, verse two to three. Consider it pure joy. My brothers and sisters. Sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. And then the, finally, the last thing is everyone's warning about justice. Will we see justice? Well, the Bible talks about this in Romans 12:19. Paul says, do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, it is mine to avenge, I will repay, says the, the Lord.

[A]

I think every one of those is, is, is packed with so many lessons, you know, and that's again the challenge as you try and figure out how to wage this warfare or even how to understand it, right, is to recognize that there's a component that we are being persecuted, right. And that persecution is the essence of whatever that evil is or that moral relative relativism. And that's why it's imperative that you go back and you are able to define your beliefs. And those verses are the ideas that you can use to really kind of begin to structure that out for you and to figure out why those verses came about, what the meaning behind them. And then to think about your life and think about how you're feeling persecuted in relative terms, terms to those verses, because that, that, that becomes your shield and your sword are those verses in that Word of God. So as you begin to really continue down that path and learning, learning really how to, how to put that, that, that belief structure in place in order to begin really fighting back, those are some great places to start as well. Man. I, I got on a call with Sean the other day and after all this went down and we were just, you know, going round and round and one of the things that we just kept going around is just, you know, all of the, the nonsense that was engulfed in this, this, the perceived warfare that was taken, these other side conflicts within the Internet and on X and all these other places and these little battles, you know, and that's the hard part. That's what you're struggling with. I know you are. It's like all Right. What battle? Where do I go? Where do I wage it? How do I start? But you can't start to wage war unless you know why you're going to, to war. So that's what I'm asking you to do. I'm asking you to figure out why you want to go to war, right? If you're willing, if you think in your heart that, yeah, this is it. This is, this is the line in the sand. If we don't start, you know, confronting this evil face to face, we're going to lose it all. Oh yeah. All right, well, what are you fighting for? Because I'm going to tell you when it gets ugly. And it, it will get ugly. Guaranteed it's going to get ugly. I mean, an assassination of a person like Charlie Kirk, that's about as ugly as it gets. Next to trying the assassination of a president or a political figure or waging war against the whole populations, I mean, that's happening. This is all happening. It's not a lie, it's not fake, it's not fabricated. This is real. So this is happening. So if that's it, and you are saying we are in a spiritual warfare, then you better believe why you want to go to war. So that's what I'm asking you. Figure out what your belief system is, map it out, and if you need help, seek somebody else that's done this. Seek out somebody that has the time and the investment in this process that can articulate it in a way that makes sense. One of the things that helped me because my, my, my journey towards this belief system was not easy, was I realized that what Christ did is he overwhelmed the enemy with his words. And his word is the gospel. And the gospel is good. And his word is God's word. And that word brought order out of chaos. So if you're going to fight this spiritual warfare, start by using the word. And that's the word of Jesus Christ. Thank you. God bless you, God bless our country. I just wish you all the best. Godspeed.

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