Best Of Buck Brief - How Trump is Making Women's Sports Actually for Women

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Podcast: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Episode: Best Of Buck Brief - How Trump is Making Women's Sports Actually for Women
Date: December 13, 2025
Main Guests: Buck Sexton (host), Paula Scanlon (American Principles Project, former Division 1 swimmer)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the recent developments concerning women’s sports, Title IX, and the controversy over transgender athletes in female competitions. Buck Sexton is joined by Paula Scanlon from the American Principles Project—herself a former Division 1 swimmer familiar with the Leah Thomas controversy—to discuss how actions by the Trump administration, including pulling federal funding, are impacting university policies and the broader debate over fairness in women’s sports. Other cultural topics, such as WNBA pay, team mascots, and the canceling of Stephen Colbert, are also explored with a blend of critique and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. WNBA Salaries and Perceived Entitlement

• Discussion of WNBA players' protest shirts ("Pay Us What You Owe Us")
  • Buck and Paula question the economics behind WNBA salary demands, emphasizing the capitalist model of professional sports.
  • Buck highlights that low viewership and heavy subsidization by the NBA set the market for salaries.
  • Paula Scanlon: “If there’s not viewership in the WNBA, there’s not money going into the WNBA. Players can’t be paid more. … If they’re paid their fair share, their salaries would actually get cut.” (04:10)
• Comparison with Other Sports:
  • Buck brings up professional lacrosse, noting many athletes hold other jobs, and they don't protest about pay.
  • Both agree that sponsorships and star power (like Caitlin Clark) are where female athletes can significantly supplement income.

2. Transgender Athletes in Women’s Sports

• Personal Experience:
  • Paula explains her personal connection to the issue: being on the UPenn swim team when Lia (formerly William) Thomas, a transgender woman, competed and set records.
  • Paula Scanlon: “They let a dude on my women’s swim team in our locker room eighteen times per week. Insanity.” (07:46)
• Trump Administration’s Actions:
  • The Trump administration pulled federal funding from UPenn for non-compliance with Title IX, spurring policy reforms.
  • School agreed to remove Lia Thomas’ name from women’s record boards and sent an apology, signaling an institutional reversal.
  • Paula: “We’ve never seen any of the universities that have put female athletes through this claw back and change their mind and do any of this. So it’s a great first start, but obviously a lot more work needs to be done.” (08:45)
• Ongoing Issues:
  • Other institutions, like Harvard and San Jose State, persist in maintaining records or teams with transgender athletes, showing inconsistency.

3. Title IX, Legislation, and Trump’s “Whack-a-Mole” Approach

• Buck asks if Trump is having to “play whack-a-mole” by enforcing these standards one school at a time.
  • Paula confirms it’s a case-by-case scenario, with some schools (e.g., Harvard) refusing to cede or apologize.
  • Paula: “We weren’t able to pass federal legislation. So the executive orders and the Trump administration going after them, that’s really what we’re stuck with here.” (09:50)

4. Sports Team Mascots and Political Correctness

• UPenn’s Mascot (Quakers) and Broader Mascot Debates:
  • Lighthearted discussion about the oddity of certain mascots (“Quakers,” “Big Green,” “Keggy the Keg”).
  • Buck and Paula agree the mascot disputes are overblown, referencing the Washington Commanders’ (formerly Redskins) name controversy.
  • Buck Sexton: “I think Trump is the master troller. … This man also has a wonderful career going for him in comedy if he ever chooses to go down that route. So I think this is just another example of him doing that. And I’m living for the entertainment.” (14:03)
  • Paula: “The bigger thing is … this liberal ideology that’s saying everything is racist. … The Washington Redskins having their name changed was just part of that entire conversation.” (12:28)

5. Late-Night TV and Stephen Colbert’s Cancellation

• Ratings Over Politics:
  • Discussion of Colbert’s show getting canceled. Paula attributes it to low ratings, not political motivation.
  • Draws parallel back to the WNBA: entertainment survives or dies by capitalist principles and audience demand.
  • Paula: “Bad ratings are bad ratings. Again, back to the original conversation about the WNBA. We live in a capitalist society … If your show is not producing, then it’s not producing.” (15:09)

6. American Principles Project & Ongoing Efforts

• Focus Areas:
  • Advocacy for family rights; ensuring women’s spaces in sports, locker rooms, and bathrooms.
  • Despite cultural progress, full legislative change remains elusive—they rely on executive action and cultural momentum.
  • Paula: “Men don’t belong in women’s sports. It’s really that simple.” (16:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On WNBA Salaries
  • Paula Scanlon: “If you’re so concerned about your pay, either yes, you have to get another job or you have to find sponsorships.” (06:45)
• On University Reversal
  • “The University of Pennsylvania no longer has Leah Thomas as a record holder on the women’s team. … Having to do that altogether makes them admit that they were in the wrong.” (08:00)
• On Trump’s Culture War Tactics
  • Buck Sexton: “Trump is the master troller. … I love his tweets. … I think this man also has a wonderful career in comedy if he ever chooses to go down that route.” (14:03)
• On Gender and Sports
  • Paula Scanlon: “I think women should have an opportunity to have professional leagues. … But we can’t just make money. You can’t get free handouts.” (05:54)
• Cultural Shift
  • “I think the culture’s really shifted on that. But unfortunately, until it’s completely done and never happening again, there are people that still have to stand up for it.” (16:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:10] – WNBA “Pay Us What You Owe Us” discourse
• [07:10] – Examining transgender athletes in women’s sports; Leah Thomas background
• [07:46] – Trump administration pulls UPenn funding, school reforms
• [08:57] – Ongoing university inconsistencies and the “whack-a-mole” issue
• [12:28] – Mascot debates, political correctness, and Trump’s comic interventions
• [15:09] – Colbert’s cancellation and the relevance of ratings
• [15:53] – American Principles Project: Focus on defending family rights and keeping women’s spaces safe

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Tone & Style

• The episode is highly conversational, mixing humor, sharp critiques of progressive politics, and pointed personal anecdotes.
• Buck is quick-witted and tongue-in-cheek, while Paula brings firsthand experience and advocacy perspective.

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Takeaways

• The Trump administration’s enforcement of Title IX and federal funding leverage is altering some universities’ policies regarding transgender participation in women’s sports.
• Broader debates persist on women’s sports compensation and cultural battles over mascots.
• Both hosts reject what they see as progressive entitlement and “cancel culture,” emphasizing capitalist principles and the defense of women-only spaces.
• Cultural change, paired with executive action, is viewed as the current path forward, as legislative progress remains limited.

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Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

You know, I wish I could understand what was going on. Obviously Caitlin Clark is a huge star and does deserve a awards and honor and money with that. But we live in a capitalist society and if there's not viewership in the wwa, there's not money going into the wnba. Players can't be paid more. And from my understanding is they're heavily subsidized by the NBA and other sports leagues. How can they expect to be paid more if they're paid their fair share, their salaries would actually get cut. So none of this makes any sense to me and I still don't understand what exactly they were protesting in this T shirt wearing situation that was happening the other week. And to be honest, I've never watched a single WNBA game in my entire life.

[Paula Scanlon]

Really, really interesting. I haven't either. But I don't know, I felt like maybe, you know, girl power, like you would decide that you got to watch the, the female athletes. It is, it is funny because now I see, I don't know if you ever see this on, on Twitter X Most of the clips circulating of wnba, like highlight clips that you'll see are actually women in the wnba, like shooting the ball off the top of the backboard or, you know, missing three layups or four layups in a row or stuff like that. So it's, it's getting talked about more than it has in the past, but somehow it has become something of a, a point of contention among people. Right. There seems to be some irritation at, I don't know, at the sense of entitlement that these players have, but they're supposed to. Like, I know professional, I know guys who play professional lacrosse and I think they make, you know, most of them have other jobs. So that tells you all you need to know. Like they play seasonal professional lacrosse and they make almost no money doing this. Very little money. And they don't say, pay us what you owe us.

[Buck Sexton]

That's actually so funny. I think I know a couple of guys that play professional lacrosse as well. I mean, it shows that if you want to do your sport, you absolutely should. I think women should have an opportunity to have professional leagues. I think the WNBA existing is obviously a good thing. I'm always here to advocate for women only leagues. But that being said, we can't just make money. You can get free handouts, you can't get free payouts from the government for this. And that's exactly what this is. It's just the liberal mentality that everything needs to be handed to you for free because you want something, someone has to give it to you. And unfortunately for the wba, that's not going to happen. And it's just so upsetting to see that. And they're discouraging other female athletes and they make female athletes look whiny and complainy. Just complain, go in, be good athletes, become a Caitlin Clark, become a key player. And many of these great WNBA players like Caitlin Clark, like some of the other stars, they have a lot of money that they make in sponsorships and deals that far outweigh any amount that the league could pay them. And that's the same thing goes for male athletes as well. So I feel like if you're so concerned about your pay, either yes, you have to get another job or you have to find sponsorships. And there are a lot of places that are willing to sponsor these athletes. It's not like they are so starving and not able to survive on their current salaries.

[Paula Scanlon]

So now you. You were on the swim team, right? The same swim team as Riley Gaines. And the swim team that was. That became the team with what's, what's the. What's his name? Leah Thomas. Formerly something else Thomas. Right. The guy who became the girl who's not really a girl, but he's swimming against you guys, and he ends up, like, winning the national championship, the whole thing. Trump has bring everyone up to speed on this one, because this has got to feel like life has come full circle and maybe finally justice at some level or it begins to be done here. What did Trump do? It looks like things have changed with UPenn.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes, exactly that. I mean, the Trump administration pulled federal funding from the University of Pennsylvania for not complying with Title nine. I mean, yeah, they let a dude on my women's swim team in our locker room 18 times per week. Insanity. Rightfully so. They were pulled federal funding, but the Trump administration then said, okay, well, if you're willing to change your policies, we can, we can have a conversation. The University of Pennsylvania then caved, had a discussion with the Trump administration, said, we will comply with Title ix. We are going to change our policies to properly reflect that. I mean, they should have been doing that to begin with, but here we are. Another thing is they agreed to change the record boards. The University of Pennsylvania no longer has Leah Thomas as a record holder on the women's team. And then on top of that, they were forced to send us an apology. It was not quite an apology that I would deem acceptable, but having to do that altogether makes them admit that they were in the wrong. And so this was a great, historic win. And honestly, we've never seen anything like this. We've never seen any of the universities that have put female athletes through this claw back and change their mind and do any of this. So it's a great first start, but obviously a lot more work needs to be done. And there are still universities that are allowing men onto their women's sports team, so we have to fight against them as well.

[Paula Scanlon]

So this is still happening. There are places that, what are they essentially waiting to see if the Trump administration drops the hammer on their athletics program or their funding for the whole university? Is it. Is Trump having to play whack a mole with this issue?

[Buck Sexton]

Honestly, a little bit. I mean, we've seen that, but we've also seen other issues. I mean, I know Harvard, not necessarily with a transgender issue, although they probably should go after Harvard for that as well, because Lia Thomas actually holds three records at the Harvard pool as well that are still up on the board. And you can go over to Cambridge, Massachusetts, and see Leah Thomas on the women's side of the record board. But they've pushed back at the Trump administration. They're not willing to negotiate, so it's really dependent on school. We know San Jose State also infamously allowed a male athlete on their volleyball team. The Trump administration hasn't been able to get them to either apologize to their female athletes or correct some of the records. I'm not sure how you quite do that in volleyball, given that it's a team sport. But there is work to be done to apologize to the female athletes that were forced to endure in this. So, again, I am grateful for their leadership. I think they've done a really, really great job on all of this. But there's still a lot of work to be done. And unfortunately, we weren't able to pass federal legislation. So the executive orders and the Trump administration going after them, that's really what we're stuck with here.

[Paula Scanlon]

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[Buck Sexton]

It's the goldfish. It's the Quakers. Yes.

[Paula Scanlon]

How do the how do the Quakers of a peaceful people usually not what you'd think about as who you would name your like ferocious athletic program after. After is everyone. So I guess everyone just thinks that one's okay because who cares?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I think it was because of the Pennsylvania was colonized.

[Paula Scanlon]

Oh, no. I know why.

[Buck Sexton]

I have no idea why they.

[Paula Scanlon]

Like, why would they choose that as the. It just seems like such a. I don't know. It's like if your mascot was like the Mennonites or something, it's like, wait a second. Like, like why that's a mascot. I don't know. It seems a little. I did not know that UPENN is the Quaker, so that's interesting. But, you know, the big one right now is changing back the Washington Commanders to the Redskins and how this is something that a lot of people feel very passionately about. What do you. What do you think about this debate?

[Buck Sexton]

You know, honestly, I don't really care. I'm going to be honest. I think that the bigger thing is the reason that the Redskins are really originally had to change their name was because of this liberal ideology that's saying everything is racist. I mean, I saw this firsthand in college where they were tearing statues down if it was a white man that had owned slaves somewhere at one point in history or things like that. Right. We've seen this mass thing where anyone who's racist is gone. And that was what was going on with a lot of these sports teams and mascots is anything that was deemed to be racist or insensitive or not politically correct needed to be changed. And I think that the Washington Redskins having their name changed was just part of that entire conversation. And so I think Trump is just fighting back to that, which I think he should. But to be fair, I don't really care. That's not my team. If it was my team, I probably would care a little bit more, but it has no effect really on my life personally. And also I thought it was really funny when they were the Washington football team for a season or two, if you remember that that whole debacle was. I don't understand why it took them so long to even change the name. I think that they're just creating drama and. And it's just kind of a joke at this point.

[Paula Scanlon]

Hmm. Yeah, I'm. I don't think anyone expected that Trump was going to weigh in on this so heavily over the weekend with a tweet. It is funny to see some of the old. Some of the mascots that have Changed just because also, I mean, you swam against Dartmouth. This is one to go from. I think it was the Indians, right? To the Big Green. I don't even know. Is that like their quadrangle? What is the Big Green?

[Buck Sexton]

I have no idea. And, but apparently the Dartmouth's mascot is also Keggy the Keg or something. That's their unofficial mascot. I was told that by some friends I had that, that swam at Dartmouth too. And I, I was like, are we being serious? Mascots in general are completely a joke. I mean, who picks these? The fact that I had to be a Quaker for four years and people would bring Quaker oats and say, this is our mascot. I mean, truly, the entire thing is a joke. But again, I think Trump is the master troller. He's always hilarious. I love his tweets. I mean, I, I love him as president. He's done wonderful things as president, but I think this man also has a wonderful career going for him in comedy if he ever chooses to go down that route. So I think this is just another example of him doing that. And I'm living for the entertainment.

[Paula Scanlon]

What do you think, Speaking of entertainment, what do you think of Colbert? Are you a late night TV watcher? Did you watch any of these shows? I mean, I assume you watch Gutfeld sometimes, but did you ever watch, like, I don't know, you might be too young for, like, Leno or any of that stuff. But what do you think about Colbert getting canceled?

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I think it sounds like it was a financial decision. It had nothing to do with anything else, but yet we have people that are melting down calling this politically motivated. I think bad ratings are bad ratings. Again, back to the original conversation about the wnba. We live in a capitalist society, and if your show is not producing, then it's not producing. And to be honest, I don't think I've met a single person that tells me they've watched his show. Truly. And I talk to a lot of my parents, friends that are in a generation that are maybe, you know, grew up watching that. And I have not heard from a single person that is truly a fan of his. So it doesn't surprise me that his ratings are not there and the money coming in for the show isn't there either.

[Paula Scanlon]

So what do you focus on these days? At the American Principles Project, we are.

[Buck Sexton]

Working to really defend family rights. And obviously the women's sports issue is a big one, but also transgender ideology. I think we have a lot of work to be done. The Trump administration has been a great partner on all of these things. But we've been working to just again, continue to defend women in sports. Obviously, because we don't have federal legislation, a lot of these states are still allowing men to compete in women's sports and putting girls in danger, but also not even just sports, but also in bathrooms and locker rooms. And so we're staying vigilant on the fight. We've made great progress again, and I think the culture's really shifted on that. But unfortunately, until it's completely done and never happening again, there are people that still have to stand up for it. So I've been grateful to be part of doing that and I'm grateful for the people that have joined us on this journey and again, so much support culturally on this issue. Men don't belong in women's sports. It's really that simple.

[Paula Scanlon]

Couldn't agree more with that. Appreciate being with us, Paula. Thank you so much and we will talk to you soon.

[Buck Sexton]

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