The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Best Of Buck Brief - Should Trump Appoint an Epstein Special Counsel?
Date: December 8, 2025
Guests: Buck Sexton (Host), Kurt Schlichter (Guest - Author, Lawyer, Commentator)

Main Theme

This episode dives into whether a potential future Trump administration should appoint a special counsel to re-investigate Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes and associates. Buck Sexton and guest Kurt Schlichter analyze the legal, political, and moral implications of such a move, discuss the limitations of uncovering hidden truths, and touch on broader themes of public trust in institutions. The discussion also branches into Schlichter’s new novel “American Apocalypse,” exploring today’s political polarization.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Legal Strategies and Pleading the Fifth (03:45–06:53)

• Buck opens by discussing recent headlines where people in Biden’s circle plead the Fifth concerning his mental state and potential conspiracies to conceal it.
• Kurt Schlichter (04:26):
  • Explains pleading the Fifth is a common legal move when a crime might be involved.
  • Claims, “This doctor also invented a physician-patient privilege that doesn't exist under federal law.”
  • Suggests a presidential pardon for doctors involved with Biden could potentially compel testimony.
• Discussion on Crime and Self-Incrimination:
  • Kurt notes the modern trend of creatively applying statutes to criminalize ambiguous situations, increasing Fifth Amendment usage.
  • Kurt (05:39):
    • “He’s like, ‘Well, I'm not exactly sure what they’d charge me for… so anything I say could incriminate me… So, I'm not going to say anything.’”
• Both agree that, for self-protection, anyone in the situation would take the Fifth.

2. Trust, Reputation, and the Biden “Dementia” Question (06:10–06:26)

• Buck says:
  • “People say, oh, what about the reputational damage?... We all know. They knew Biden had dementia.”
• Kurt jokes:
  • “The SS Reputation has pulled out of port and set sail.”

3. Should Trump Appoint a Special Counsel into Epstein? (06:57–12:50)

• Buck’s Position (06:57 & 08:00):
  • Strongly opposes the idea of appointing a special counsel, describing it as a “terrible idea.”
• Kurt’s View:
  • Advocates letting the Epstein issue “die out,” as no practical benefit would come from reopening it.
  • Points to challenges: Innocent people and victims could be exposed, child exploitation evidence can’t be made public, and trustworthy people reviewing files would still not satisfy skeptics.
  • Kurt (08:26):
    • “You can’t display child gross tapes. We send people who are absolutely trustworthy in to see what there is, and then they come and report to us. And we did that. …People are like, well… They’ve turned Dan Bongino. Okay, you’re not going to turn Dan Bongino.”
  • If evidence existed, especially of major political figures, the media would have seized it by now.
  • Compares to JFK files: no amount of disclosure will satisfy believers in conspiracy.
• Key Insight (11:27):
  • Buck and Kurt agree that simply appointing a special counsel to “find the truth” is unrealistic, as much of the evidence may have been destroyed or never existed.

4. Public Distrust, Abuse, and Institutional Rot (09:14–13:26)

• Buck and Kurt on Institutional Distrust:
  • The mishandling of the Epstein case, like the JFK files, feeds a “well-earned” public suspicion.
  • Buck: “People have been lied to. This whole thing’s been handled horribly.”
  • Kurt: “I think this is a combination of disappointment, well-earned distrust, revulsion at the subject… there’s simply no defaulting to trust. …Once you’ve lost trust, it takes a long time to earn it back.”
• On Special Counsel Appointments:
  • Buck states special counsels exist for DOJ conflicts of interest, so appointing one here would be an admission the Trump DOJ couldn’t be trusted, which is self-defeating.

5. American Polarization and “American Apocalypse” (14:29–18:11)

• Buck transitions the discussion (14:29):
  • Introduces Kurt Schlichter’s new novel “American Apocalypse: The Second American Civil War.”
• Kurt’s Explanation:
  • The novel is inspired by “genuine concern” that political polarization could escalate beyond procedural politics to force and violence.
  • “Half of America, the left half, doesn’t believe that the right half has any legitimacy to govern… They think we’re actively evil.”
  • The book shows a “worst case scenario” where erosion of norms leads to “a real nightmare.”
• On Hope and Satire:
  • Kurt stresses the book, though tough, isn’t meant to glorify conflict and includes “Schlichter amusing moments.”
  • “If you come out of this going, oh boy, it’d be great to take that other side… No, no.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:38] Kurt Schlichter:
  “When we use [the Fifth], it’s often to avoid being railroaded. When they use it, it’s often to avoid accountability, which it does.”
• [06:26] Kurt Schlichter:
  “The SS Reputation has pulled out of port and set sail. Let’s put it that way.”
• [07:59] Buck Sexton:
  “That’s a terrible idea.”
• [08:26] Kurt Schlichter:
  “You can’t… display child gross tapes. We send people who are absolutely trustworthy in to see what there is, and then they come and report to us… Sometimes you’ve got to take yes for an answer.”
• [09:14] Kurt Schlichter:
  “I’m not criticizing people who are suspicious… this whole thing has been handled to [poorly].”
• [12:50] Kurt Schlichter:
  “The answer is to be trustworthy. But, you know, once you’ve lost trust, it takes a long time to earn it back.”
• [14:35] Kurt Schlichter:
  “Half of America, the left half, doesn’t believe that the right half has any legitimacy to govern, even when it wins full and fair elections… When you’re saying Trump is literally Hitler and they are literally saying Trump is literally Hitler, where do you go from that?”
• [17:27] Kurt Schlichter:
  “I didn’t write this [novel] to be miserable… I wanted to tell stories of regular folks that we can identify with so we can see why it’s so important that we get back to the Constitution rather than kind of solving our problems by beating each other over the head.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Legal Pleading & Biden’s Health: 03:45–06:53
• Should Epstein Get a Special Counsel?: 06:57–12:50
• Public Distrust & Institutional Critique: 09:14–13:26
• Novel “American Apocalypse” Discussion: 14:29–18:11

Tone & Style:
Buck maintains his typical blend of skepticism and humor, while Schlichter adds a lawyer’s pragmatism mixed with dry wit. Both are direct, occasionally sardonic, and display deep cynicism about government transparency and institutional trust.

Summary Takeaway:
Both hosts thoroughly reject the idea of reopening the Epstein case via a special counsel, arguing that most reasonable avenues for justice or truth have been exhausted, and that conspiracy-minded distrust can’t be quelled by official investigations. Schlichter's appearance is used not only to provide legal analysis but also to promote his new fiction, which reflects broader anxieties about American democracy and partisanship.