BONUS: California in Chaos & Democrats side with the Rioters plus "Maryland Man" Indicted for Human Trafficking & Biden's Autopen Investigation

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode Title: BONUS: California in Chaos & Democrats Side with the Rioters plus "Maryland Man" Indicted for Human Trafficking & Biden's Autopen Investigation
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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1. California in Chaos & Democrats' Support for Rioters

Overview:
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton delve into the escalating unrest in California, highlighting violent protests, the alignment of Democratic leaders with rioters, and the broader implications for law enforcement and state governance.

Key Discussions:

• Escalation of Violence in California:
  Jack Armstrong opens the discussion by describing the deteriorating situation in California, citing instances of riots, cars being set on fire, and protesters displaying foreign flags. He underscores the troubling trend of Democrats aligning themselves with these rioters.

  "Once again, California has descended into chaos. We're seeing riots. We're seeing cars lit on fire... we're seeing a parade of Democrats all lining up to say, we the Democrats, we're with the rioters." (03:00)

• Democratic Leaders' Stance:
  Ted Cruz and Jack Armstrong criticize Democratic leaders like Karen Bass, Gavin Newsom, Adam Schiff, and Nancy Pelosi for their perceived inaction or support of the protesters. They argue that these leaders prioritize political agendas over restoring order.

  "This is war right now... these leftist violent so-called protest that has been a huge problem in this country for years. And they are escalating." (07:42)

• Comparison to Past Riots:
  Ben Ferguson draws parallels between the current unrest and the 1992 Los Angeles riots, emphasizing the severity and the lack of effective law enforcement response today.

  "What did happen in 1992 was so different from what we're seeing now... This is a situation where the L.A. county... are not good, but they're saying they have it under control." (12:05)

• Media Representation:
  The hosts critique media outlets like CNN for downplaying the violence, contrasting it with Fox News' more direct coverage. They accuse mainstream media of portraying the riots as peaceful despite clear evidence of violence.

  "If you're a propaganda outlet, you've got a message to get out. And you know what the message is? Nothing to see here. This is peaceful." (10:19)

Notable Quotes:

• "This is not your grandfather's Democrat party." — Jack Armstrong (16:16)
• "They blur together. She has, look, I give her credit." — Jack Armstrong discussing Democratic congresswomen (20:26)

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2. Indictment of Maryland Man for Human Trafficking

Overview:
The show shifts focus to a high-profile indictment of a Maryland man involved in human trafficking, exploring the implications for immigration policy and Democratic responses.

Key Discussions:

• Details of the Indictment:
  Jack Armstrong reveals the indictment of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, highlighting his long-term involvement with the MS-13 gang and his role in smuggling thousands of undocumented aliens into the United States over nine years.

  "He has been indicted for human trafficking... from in or around 2016 through in or around 2025. So for nine years." (27:30)

• Democratic Party's Reaction:
  The hosts criticize Democrats for their past support and recent defense of the indicted individual, suggesting a disconnect between Democratic rhetoric and their actions.

  "You can't get away from this guy on social media attacking Trump... where are you?" — Ted Cruz (07:04)

• MS-13 and National Security:
  They emphasize the dangers posed by MS-13, noting the organization's involvement in various criminal activities, including human trafficking, and the threat it poses to national security.

  "MS-13 is evil... they are soulless." — Jack Armstrong (33:32)

Notable Quotes:

• "Every single ICE agent who's engaged in this aggressive overreach... will be unsuccessful in doing that." — Ben Ferguson (16:04)
• "They're gonna put on that evidence that this guy was a gang member for nine years." — Jack Armstrong (30:17)

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3. Biden's Autopen Investigation

Overview:
Travis and Sexton scrutinize President Joe Biden's use of an autopen for signing important documents, raising legal and ethical concerns about presidential authority and oversight.

Key Discussions:

• Understanding the Autopen Issue:
  The hosts explain the controversy surrounding Biden's use of an autopen to sign legislation and pardons, questioning the legality and presidential authorization behind its use.

  "The auto pen, I think, is the big scandal... it's a very bad thing. Very dangerous." — Joe Getty (35:09)

• Legal Implications:
  Jack Armstrong provides a detailed analysis of the constitutional requirements for presidential signatures, arguing that while the Constitution does not specify the form, the President must authorize the use of an autopen for it to be valid.

  "Article 1, Section 7 permits the President to sign a bill by directing a subordinate to affix the President's signature to it." (43:14)

• Potential Consequences:
  The discussion explores possible legal challenges, including whether pardons and laws signed via autopen can be contested in court if it's proven that Biden did not personally authorize them.

  "If they prosecute someone, it's going to be someone for whom there is clear evidence of a federal criminal violation." — Jack Armstrong (42:12)

Notable Quotes:

• "He's a dirtbag coalition of leftist violent so-called protest that has been a huge problem in this country for years." — Jack Armstrong (07:42)
• "He didn't have much of an idea what was going on, Mr. President." — Joe Getty (36:05)
• "There is evidence that Biden didn't know about it." — Jack Armstrong (42:29)

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Conclusion & Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Travis and Sexton maintain a critical stance toward Democratic leadership, highlighting perceived hypocrisies and failures in addressing significant national issues. They intertwine discussions on civil unrest, immigration, and presidential authority, presenting a narrative that calls for accountability and stronger enforcement of laws.

Closing Remarks:

• They encourage listeners to stay informed and engaged, stressing the importance of understanding the complexities of modern political dynamics.
• The hosts reiterate their commitment to delivering what they describe as the "truth" amidst what they perceive as a biased mainstream media landscape.

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Notable Segments & Time Stamps:

• California Chaos Introduced: 03:00
• Maryland Man Indicted: 27:30
• Autopen Investigation Deep Dive: 34:00
• Legal Analysis of Presidential Signatures: 45:05

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and reflects the viewpoints expressed in the podcast episode. It aims to present the content accurately and objectively for informational purposes.

Transcript

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[Ted Cruz]

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[Ted Cruz]

Welcome. It is Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you and Senator, we've got one packed show for people today.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, once again, California has descended into chaos. We're seeing riots. We're seeing cars lit on fire. We're seeing protesters waving Mexican flags, waving flags of other countries and. And defying assaulting law enforcement and amazingly, we're seeing a parade of Democrats all lining up to say, we the Democrats, we're with the rioters. That's the side we're on. Likewise, if you think about the illegal alien that we saw, a parade of Democrats going down to El Salvador saying we're on your side as well. Well, that particular illegal alien has been brought to America to be tried for human trafficking. This is, this is an amazing illustration of exactly where today's Democrat Party stands. And finally, we're gonna talk about Joe Biden's use of the auto pen. Use of the auto pen to sign legislation, use of the auto pen to issue pardons. What does that mean legally? What's the consequence of it? And what does it mean that President Trump says he's gonna investigate it? What happens next?

[Ted Cruz]

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[Jack Armstrong]

Well, look, it's tragic. It's tragic. The chaos, the violence that seems more and more commonplace in California, that seems more and more to be the face of today's Democrat Party. I want you just to watch and see what is unfolding right now in California, in Los Angeles. And this is who today's left is.

[Ben Ferguson]

Turning now to a FOX News alert. Anti ICE protesters are still rioting in Los Angeles county and setting a car on fire. You're looking at live pictures in Paramount, California right now in the last hour. Border czar Tom Homan told us they were sending in the National Guard to California. You know, Lydia, the damage is just striking here that we're seeing. We also have seen reports there's a Fox Los Angeles reporter who's just there on scene trying to cover this story. He said his car was destroyed by protesters. You know, let's hope that no one is hurt and no one is injured and it doesn't escalate from here. Look at the flag. Yeah, guy, there it is.

[Ted Cruz]

Mexican flag.

[Ben Ferguson]

Can you know, you know, this is, this is criminal activity that I hope is people are held accountable for. And I'm talking about the riots right here. Where are the cops? Yeah, where are they? We heard earlier that Karen Bass, the mayor of la, an allegation that she had prevented the LAPD from responding yesterday when he was her first developing guy for upwards of two hours or more. To your point, where are the police?

[Ted Cruz]

Well, the officials in this part of the country in Los Angeles and California are too busy tripping over themselves to attack Donald Trump in and law enforcement. I guess those are the cops back there to actually condemn these people doing these things. And in the intro, Alicia, you said these are anti ICE protesters. Yes, but if you just squint, it could easily be the BLM protesters or the Free Palestine protesters or the resist DOGE protesters or the resist ice in this case protesters. It is this dirtbag coalition of leftist violent so called protest that has been a huge problem in this country for years. And they are escalating.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, you don't see Democrats coming out with any sort of outrage over the destruction here. Their outrage is the opposite. It's over the ICE officials who are out there.

[Jack Armstrong]

Let me give you five names where we're not hearing a lot from right now, except to attack these ICE officials, which is leading to attacks like this.

[Ted Cruz]

Karen Bass, Los Angeles Mayor Gavin Newsom.

[Jack Armstrong]

California Governor Adam Schiff, who's awfully active on X and social media, condemning to guys point, Donald Trump not hearing anything from him. Eric Swalwell as well. You can't get away from this guy on social media attacking Trump. Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, where are you?

[Ted Cruz]

This is war right now that we're.

[Jack Armstrong]

Seeing in terms of our federal agents being attacked and California officials doing nothing to stop it.

[Ben Ferguson]

Now. It's an. It's going to be an incredibly bad look in the next 24 to 48 hours if you don't get the governor out there, if you don't get someone out there to at least get people to stop. Because right now you have city leaders encouraging people to join the resistance.

[Ted Cruz]

You have city leaders. Let's just pick it up there. Encouraging people to go out there and do this. You watch that video. There are a lot of Mexican flags. So I'm just trying to get my head around this.

[Jack Armstrong]

So, Ben, I have an idea. Let's you and me, let's go illegally to France. Let's just break into France. Once we get there, let's start rioting against France because we hate France. Uh, let's light the Eiffel Tower on fire. Let's start waving the American flag around while we're lighting the Eiffel Tower on fire. And let's say, don't you dare send us back to America the flag we're flying. Because you have no right to decide if we get to come into your country illegally. We can do anything you want. And if you try to enforce your laws, I guess we'll just light things on fire. And even better, your elected officials would say, damn right, you keep burning. And we'll send you more like this is truly through the Twilight Zone and what is striking. All right, let's break down several pieces of it. First of all, let's take the media. So we saw Fox News where they actually covered what's going on.

[Ted Cruz]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

I want to contrast that with cnn, because cnn, look, if you're a propaganda outlet, you've got a message to get out. And you know what the message is? Nothing to see here. This is peaceful. This is fine.

[Ted Cruz]

I mean, they are famous for the Police station being on fire, remember in the summer of rage.

[Jack Armstrong]

And they're like, it's fiery but peaceful.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. Fiery but peaceful protests here.

[Jack Armstrong]

So. All right, I want you to watch CNN covering this same riot watch.

[Ben Ferguson]

So there's unrest. Let's start with there's protest, lawful protest which is allowed in this country. There is some unrest generally dealt with by local law enforcement. And that there needs to be state support through state police and sometimes even National Guard under a governor's authority. What is happening tonight is. Is unprecedented.

[Ted Cruz]

I mean, I love that. She's like, it's unrest. Oh, I can't say that. Hold on, I got to back that up. This is just peaceful and that is something that is protected and we're totally fine with this.

[Jack Armstrong]

Like, she admitted unrest and immediately had to run away from it.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I gotta say, it's striking also the video that they don't show anything on fire there. They've learned the lesson where during the Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots where they literally put on. If you don't remember this, they had a video of an entire store on fire.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

And their chiron said fiery but peaceful protests.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah. As buildings are burning.

[Jack Armstrong]

It is. They've got a message. And look in the first video on Fox where the folks are talking, they say, where are the cops? And you see way up at the top, a block away. And yet there are no police officers anywhere near the protesters. No police officers anywhere near the car that's on fire. And it's clear it goes back to leadership.

[Ted Cruz]

That's the question I want to ask you. You look at this, you're allowing it.

[Jack Armstrong]

The mayor ordered them to stay away.

[Ted Cruz]

Okay. So I want to be. That was the question I want to ask you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Of course, of course, of course. But here you're in my friend Dana Bash, she's got to jump in now and really defend what's going on here. Here, give a listen.

[Ted Cruz]

It's pretty bad.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's a different question. But I just want to just stay for the record that what did happen in 1992 was so different from what we're seeing now. I mean, that was. That was a. A real, a real riot that went all across the city of Los Angeles after a verdict in the Rodney King case. This is a situation where the L. A county, L.A. county police, it's not good, but they're saying that they have it under control and the. And the president is sending national troops.

[Ted Cruz]

In a way that we can look at.

[Ben Ferguson]

Hasn't been done in a long time.

[Ted Cruz]

See that it is not under control. It's not under control. You and I both see that it's not under control. And a riot is a riot. They're throwing. They're throwing all types of objects at law enforcement. And the president is absolutely right, by the way. Ask the people whose cars and buildings are on fire if this is a riot or not.

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no, no. Dana told us it's not a real riot.

[Ted Cruz]

It's not a real one.

[Jack Armstrong]

It's effective. You know, they are familiar with fakes.

[Ted Cruz]

Yes.

[Jack Armstrong]

At cnn, they are experts in fakes. You know, it really is striking. This is nothing to see here. Not a real riot. It's all okay. And then she says, well, okay, it's not good, but it's nothing like a.

[Ted Cruz]

Real riot back in the old days of the 90s.

[Jack Armstrong]

And look, there have been multiple arrests because you have these protestors are actively aggressively trying to stop ICE from carrying out their jobs, from enforcing immigration laws. One of the people arrested was the president of the SEIU union.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Who was arrested for physically actively stopping federal agents from carrying out their jobs. Now, what is the reaction of Democrat politicians? Well, here, take a look. The reality is we see peaceful protests launching in Los Angeles.

[Ben Ferguson]

And again, any violence against police officers.

[Jack Armstrong]

Should not be accepted. Local authorities can handle that. But remember, a lot of these peaceful protests are being generated because the President of the United States is sowing chaos and confusion by arresting people who are showing up for their immigration hearings.

[Ted Cruz]

They love the word peaceful, don't they?

[Jack Armstrong]

So the phrase peaceful protest, which they say repeatedly and notice that. So that was Cory Booker, and he's saying, well, look, you can't commit violence against cops. Look, I'm glad he says that, in part because they've seen where these riots go. But at the same time, he's repeatedly saying what CNN is saying, which is it's only the governor and local law enforcement that can do it. Nothing federal, because President Trump has called up the National Guard. And they are so unhappy that we're actually going to see these violent protesters will be stopped from terrorizing the communities they're engaged with. And that's a nightmare scenario for the Democrats because anytime you have violence like this, they are on the side of the violence.

[Ted Cruz]

Do you notice? Booker also said the beginnings. We've talked about how orchestrated Democrats are when they do these things on college campuses where there's people behind them in advocacy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Booker said this is. So you're suggesting the people who are paying for this are also paying for the Democrats who are going on TV Defending it.

[Ted Cruz]

I'm saying Cory Booker seems to have some pretty good insider information that this is the quote, beginning his words, not mine, of something big like this is the beginning. And he said that on Sunday morning, after a weekend of this violence, the beginning. So you gotta ask the question, are they all in on it?

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, look, you know, you look at so much of today's Democrat Party that's paid for by George Soros, it kind of makes you wonder if it's now George Zorro, and it is all about go back and. And they want California to secede from America and go back to Mexico. But look, Cory Booker was not alone. Give another listen.

[Ben Ferguson]

Every single ICE agent who's engaged in this aggressive overreach and are trying to hide their identities from the American people.

[Jack Armstrong]

Will be unsuccessful in doing that.

[Ben Ferguson]

This is America. This is not the Soviet Union. We're not behind the Iron Curtain.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is not the 1930s. And every single one of them, no.

[Ben Ferguson]

Matter what it takes, no matter how long it takes, will of course be identified.

[Ted Cruz]

I have a dad who's spent the majority of his life in law enforcement that is a threat to law enforcement that we're going to make sure that everyone that hates you knows who you are, where you live, who your kids may be, who your wife is, and we're gonna make you feel unsafe for doing your job.

[Jack Armstrong]

Look, that is grotesque. It's one of the most grotesque things I've ever seen. That's Hakeem Jeffries, the Democrat leader in the House of Representatives. And he's not hiding what he's saying. He is threatening to docs to expose to reveal the identities of federal law enforcement agents. Ice, because he wants threats, he wants violence, he wants intimidation. He wants violence and intimidation directed at federal law enforcement. That is grotesque. By the way, the mayor of Boston analogized ICE to Nazis. Yeah, I mean, that is. Understand today's Democrat Party, this is not your grandfather's Democrat party, this is a Democrat Party. Now, if you are an illegal alien, if you are a gang member, if you are a murderer, if you are a rapist, the Democrats stand with you. If you're a police officer, the Democrats are are not with you. If you are an ICE agent, they are not with you. If you're a Border Patrol agent, they are not with you. If you are enforcing the law, they are not with you. And listen to what Cory Booker said. Cory Booker said, well, Trump is causing it because he's enforcing the law.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah, cuz enforcing the law it is. Well, and then you gotta look at Newsom. I mean, look at Newsom. We had this very interesting rebranding. I would call it Newsom, maybe 3.0, 4.0. He's rebranded himself a lot. He's really good at it.

[Jack Armstrong]

He's pretending to be a moderate. He suddenly discovered that boys and girls exist. Yeah, it's really remarkable because, you know, 12 seconds ago, he didn't know that.

[Ted Cruz]

And yet here's his true colors yet again.

[Jack Armstrong]

So here's what he tweeted out. He says the federal government is taking over the California national guard and deploying 2,000 soldiers in Los Angeles. Not because there's a shortage of law enforcement, but. But because they want a spectacle. Don't give them one. Never use violence. Speak out peacefully. So understand the end of that. Speak out peacefully. He's calling for. I'm the governor, I want more riots. Yeah, there are not enough of you out there. More, more, more. Somebody get Soros on line two. George, we need more money. Can you send out more protests now? That is his message. And they are furious, furious with President Trump for actually defending the communities. Look, we saw in that first video, the law enforcement, the police officers are ordered. Don't do anything about it. Don't keep people safe. We've seen, by the way, we've seen this video before. We saw it during the Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots where, again, Democrat mayors, Democrat governors prevented law enforcement from doing their jobs. And by the way, look.

[Ted Cruz]

Well, and the word is on the street that local. I mean, local law enforcement were told on Saturday and Friday night, stand down, like, don't get involved. Let them do what they're gonna do. If that turns out to be, like, the entire policy of LA and the local government there, doesn't that give even more credence to why Donald Trump should send in the National Guard?

[Jack Armstrong]

Absolutely. And look, I will give the Democrats credit for being the voice of reason, the voice of moderation. I want you to listen to this very careful, calm, measured analysis from a Democrat California congresswoman. She's assessing the situation carefully. She's trying to balance competing interests, trying.

[Ted Cruz]

To protect property and lives, and give.

[Jack Armstrong]

A listen to what she has to say.

[Ben Ferguson]

I skipped the out of la, so that order can't be restored.

[Ted Cruz]

There it is. If ICE would just leave and all the illegal immigrants can do what they want to do, and we've had no crime problems in California in the last.

[Jack Armstrong]

Year or so, so understand their message. Also, they do not want federal immigration laws enforced. She wants ICE out of the state. And by the way, to Be clear, her message also. Every illegal alien in America, please come to California.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Because that's who she represents. That is. And I don't even know that congresswoman. She's one of the many left wings.

[Ted Cruz]

There's a lot of them from California.

[Jack Armstrong]

They blur together. She has, look, I give her credit. Apparently she's volunteering to join AOC and Ilhan Omar and the other kooks to be the face of today's Democrat Party. This is sad.

[Ted Cruz]

Final question on this. You look at the president's decision to send the National Guard, and you look at Democrats now clearly wanting a fight. They're wanting more illegals to come out. Is this one of those things where they think this is a positive nationwide? I mean, how could you think that burning down cities, attacking your neighbor's property, burning cars, attacking law enforcement is somehow a political win? I don't understand that while you're riding.

[Jack Armstrong]

A motorcycle around a burning car waving a Mexican flag.

[Ted Cruz]

Bingo.

[Jack Armstrong]

Look, at the end of the day, apparently those individuals, and we saw Mexican flags everywhere you look, apparently those individuals, they want America to be Mexico. What else do you. And by the way, look, Mexico is a beautiful country. If you want to go to Mexico, go to Mexico.

[Ted Cruz]

If you want to fly the flag, go to Mexico.

[Jack Armstrong]

But you don't have a right to defend, defy federal law, to come here illegally. And yet that is, at the end of the day, that is what today's Democrat Party stands for. It is their core belief. It is their reason for being. And you asked if they think this is a winning message. Well, it depends who you're talking to. If you're talking to your radicals, if you're talking to your zealots, if you're.

[Ted Cruz]

Talking to the people that fund this stuff.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah. If you're talking to the big money donors. And yes, that's a winning message. If you're talking to the people who wrote checks on the anti Israel and anti America protests on college campuses, it's a great message. If you're actually talking to ordinary Americans, if you're talking to soccer moms, if you're talking to people who would like their kids safe, if you're talking to people who don't really want to see their neighborhoods lit on fire, I question, as Brer Rabbit said, throw me in that briar patch. Well, you know, I question, question if they're going to be happy with this decision come next election day. You know, in the book of Genesis, God makes a promise to your offspring. I promise this land. Now, that promise is the foundation of Israel, a land the Jewish people have returned to after centuries of exile and bondage and even the horrors of the Holocaust. But that promise is still under threat, especially after October 7th. Now, Israel's safety today depends on the very brave men and women of the idf, the Israeli Defense Forces. Every citizen is required to serve. Your gift of $45 will help provide aid to soldiers and their families. By helping to provide food and other bare necessities for these families and emergency supplies for soldiers now, you can help secure their future. Honor those who are defending the holy land. Call now 888-488-IFCJ. That's 888-488-IFCj. Or just go to their website, it's ifcj.org and you can give Today, they are in desperate need of help.

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[Jack Armstrong]

And I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like are you a fist pumper, a woohooer, a hand clapper, a High fiver. If you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumba Casino. Choose from hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the most fun and free [e-mail] no purchase necessary VGW Group void where prohibited by law. 21/ Terms and Conditions apply.

[J.R. Martinez]

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Ted Cruz]

This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it.

[J.R. Martinez]

I'm J.R. martinez. I'm a U.S. army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who, who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Ted Cruz]

Which brings me to story number two, and it's one that is just maybe one of the I laughed when I saw the news. I thought this was a brilliant move by the Trump administration. Democrats have been obsessed with the Maryland father, the Maryland man who just happened to get deported, who was an illegal immigrant who was caught human smuggling through my home state of Tennessee. And they act like it never happened. And now all of a sudden we're like, they were demanding you bring him home, bring him back to America. Well, guess what? The dude's coming home.

[Jack Armstrong]

He is indeed. And he has been brought to be prosecuted. He has been indicted. He has been indicted for human trafficking.

[Ted Cruz]

Wait, I thought he was just a Maryland dad, not a human trafficker.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, I will tell you, I am holding the indictment in my hand and it is stunning. So how long was he a human trafficker? Well, according to the indictment, from in or around 2016 through in or around 2025. So for nine years, that's a pretty good career. Kilmar, Armando, Abrego Garcia and others known and unknown to the grand jury, conspired to bring undocumented aliens to The United States from countries such as Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Ecuador, and elsewhere, ultimately passing through Mexico before crossing into Texas. Very nice. They came into Texas. The co conspirators knew the undocumented aliens did not possess authorization to enter the United States. They used cell phones. They used social media applications. The indictment also alleges Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was a citizen of El Salvador, was not a United States citizen, was living in the United States, and was also a member of and associate of the Transnational Criminal Organization, Ms. 13.

[Ted Cruz]

No, he's a dad. Hold on a second. You can't say that. This is just a Maryland dude. Maryland dad. Maryland man.

[Jack Armstrong]

And by the way, they accurately describe MS.13. MS.13 was a criminal enterprise engaged in, among other activities, acts and threats involving murder, extortion, narcotics trafficking, firearms trafficking, alien smuggling and money laundering. MS.13 operated throughout north and Central America, including in El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, the United States, including in Texas, Maryland, New York, Tennessee and elsewhere. Now, how many illegal aliens do you think he's charged with smuggling?

[Ted Cruz]

I'm assuming zero because he's just a Maryland man. He's just a Maryland dad.

[Jack Armstrong]

He's a Maryland dad. I want to read this paragraph. Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, as detailed further below, used his status in MS.13 to further his criminal activity.

[Ted Cruz]

Right. Not his status as a father or dad as a MS.13 gang member.

[Jack Armstrong]

Over the course of the conspiracy, the co conspirators knowingly and unlawfully transported. Wait for it. Thousands of undocumented aliens, many of whom were Ms. 13 members and associates.

[Ted Cruz]

So you're bringing in people that are now a member of a terrorist organization into the country. So not just random people paying. He was smuggling in members of the terrorist organization in the United States of America for not one year, not two, not three, not four, not five years, but nine years.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yes. And look, the fact that DOJ brought this indictment means presumably they have the evidence to prove this indictment. They're gonna put on that evidence. They're gonna put on that evidence that this guy was a gang member for nine years, that he was part of a conspiracy that smuggled thousands of people illegally, including other gang members.

[Ted Cruz]

You think the media is gonna apologize for any of their stories that were attacking Trump and saying that he just sent a Maryland dad, a Maryland man.

[Jack Armstrong]

And understand this is the same illegal immigrant that my colleague, Chris Van Hollen, Democrat from Maryland, flew down and had really, what was a very sweet margarita with. I mean, it was a bro hand holding.

[Ted Cruz]

It was a moment. It was a bro Moment.

[Jack Armstrong]

As I tweeted out at the time, find somebody who looks at you the way Democrats look at illegal alien ms.13 gang members. Yeah, like the sweet nothings in his eyes as he looked on. And by the way, you saw Democrat House members, you know, all on a parade to go down there.

[Ted Cruz]

They wanted to use your tax dollars to go see the Maryland man.

[Jack Armstrong]

This is the face of the Democrat party. This is who they stand for. So, look, you ought to ask yourself at home, AM I an MS.13 gang member who's a human trafficker who smuggles in thousands of aliens, who smuggles in gang members? If so, the Democrats of the party, for me, if you're not, if you kind of think we don't want human traffickers and gang members in America, well, then I don't know what the Democrats have to say.

[Ted Cruz]

Is this like the ultimate fafo like moment? Because for Democrats, and I want people to understand the funniest part of the story, Democrats demanded we bring him back. He's coming back, gonna go to jail for a long time. And then after he serves his time, apparently we're gonna send him right back to the country where he just came from. Like, it didn't just go from bad to worse. Like he would have been better off just staying where he was. Look, Democrats actually are putting this man in jail.

[Jack Armstrong]

And these facts, the facts that prove he was a human trafficker, the facts and evidence that DOJ is gonna put on, I hope and believe the American people need to know those facts because they need to know, look, we've already in this podcast cover how the guy is allegedly a wife beater, that he has a long history of criminality. We played the audio of him being caught human trafficking, but at the time, we didn't know that there was a decade worth of thousands of people being trafficked, including other gang members, count for.

[Ted Cruz]

What you wish for, right?

[Jack Armstrong]

And by the way, to understand, look, I don't know specifically what this gang member did, but I'll tell you, Ms. 13, when they are human trafficking, they are raping women, they are raping children, they are abusing women and children, that they are abusing little boys, little girls, they're soulless.

[Ted Cruz]

They do not care about human life.

[Jack Armstrong]

Or using human life. Ms. 13 is evil. And in Texas, we see the atrocities they carry out. I fully expect the evidence that comes out in this trial to be nothing short of horrifying. And I gotta say, if you're a Democrat and you've decided the entire future of your party is defending this guy, yeah. You know what's weird, Ben? I'm not sure the Democrats are worried right now.

[Ted Cruz]

I don't think they are.

[Jack Armstrong]

I mean, that's the strangest thing is in the face of this, there used.

[Ted Cruz]

To be in politics moments where you knew you screwed up, where even your party, they're all in on California and still on defending this guy.

[Jack Armstrong]

Their position is that one Democrat congresswoman said, law enforcement, get the F out. That's their message. No cops, no ice, no border patrol. We don't defend. We don't defend California, we don't arrest America. But gang members and murderers. You're a peeps.

[Ted Cruz]

Amazing. I want to move to one final issue, and it's one that has gotten a lot of attention in conservative circles. It's certainly one that the media just refuses to talk about. And the president clearly wanted to use the power this week of his microphone to bring up the issue of the auto pin. When it comes to Joe Biden investigating, what did he know? When did he know it? Did he have any clue what he was signing with the auto pin? Was he even directing the auto pin to be used? Or were there people that were literally playing president.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yep.

[Ted Cruz]

That were saying, I want to hook this political favor up or this pardon up or this piece of legislation, this executive order up. And he had no idea it was even happening.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, and President Trump did a really good job explaining this in the Oval Office this past week. Give a listen. Predecessor dismissed your auto pen investigation. He said he made all the decisions during his presidency. I'm curious your reaction to his dismissal.

[Joe Getty]

Well, look, the auto pen, I think, is the big scandal outside of the rigged election of 2020. I think the biggest scandal of the last many years is the auto pen and who's using it. I happen to think I know. Okay. Because I'm here and I'm not a big auto pen person. Fortunately. I'm glad. I'm very glad. It's an easy way out, but it's. It's a very bad thing. Very dangerous. You know, I sign important documents. Usually when they put documents in front of you, they're important. Even if you're signing ambassadorships or I consider that important. I think it's inappropriate. You have somebody that's devoting four years of their life or more to being an ambassador. I think you really deserve. That person deserves to get a real signature, not an auto pen signature. And I can tell auto pen easily. I can look at it like two little pinholes from pulling the paper. Right. You always see the pinholes. It's real easy to tell about auto pen. I think it's very disrespectful to people when they get an auto pen signature outside. Auto pen, to me, are used when thousands of letters come in from young people all over the country, and you want to get them back. And, you know, people use auto pens for that, to send a little signature at the bottom of a letter. We have thousands of them. We get thousands of letters a week, and it's not possible to, you know, do. I'd like to do it myself, but you can't do it to me. That's where auto pens start and stop. But I don't think. I don't. I'm sure that he didn't know many of the things. Look, he was never for open borders. He was never for transgender, for everybody. He was never for men playing in women's sports. I mean, he changed. I mean, all of these things that changed so radically. I don't think he had any idea that what was. Frankly, I said it during the debate, and I say it now. He didn't have much of an idea what was going on, Mr. President, he shouldn't be. I mean, essentially, whoever used the auto pan was the president, and that is wrong. It's illegal. It's so bad, and it's so disrespectful.

[Ted Cruz]

I look at what he said there, and I go back to something that is. You've seen auto pin? Do you have the auto pin? I've never asked you that.

[Jack Armstrong]

Yeah.

[Ted Cruz]

Okay. So I've gone to an office before to get a birthday card or something done. When I worked in D.C. people would come over and say, hey, can we get this written? It's somebody's 70th anniversary, our 70th birthday. And they'll go, yeah, sure. And they'll put it together and they'll get it auto pin signed, because there's so many requests like this. But he's right. Being the President of the United States of America, there's a lot of. If it's being put in front of you, it probably deserves a signature if it's making it to be in front of you.

[Jack Armstrong]

Well, let's draw a distinction. First of all, let me explain what an auto pen is. It's a machine where literally you have a mechanical arm that holds a pen, typically a sharpie. Most signatures are used with sharpies. And so I've got an auto pen. As far as I know. I think every member of Congress has a bird pen.

[Ted Cruz]

So my birthday card, you're telling me, was not really. You signing that?

[Jack Armstrong]

No, no, no. When I made fun of you, that was definitely written me. But you use it for correspondence. I mean, in my time in the Senate, I've literally gotten millions of letters from constituents and we send out millions of letters in response. And so you could spend literally every waking moment doing nothing but signing that correspondence. And so what you do instead, every congressional office has a correspondence office where for a given topic, if you ask me about illegal immigration, we have a letter in the office that lays out your plans, my views on illegal immigration, and the policy team helps draft those, and they get approved. You know, I suspect we'll have a letter shortly on these LA riots and what's happening there. Whatever the topics are that people are writing in on, a congressional office will prepare a letter that's responsive to it and those will get auto pinned. That is very different from something that requires a signature to have legal effect. And they're really.

[Ted Cruz]

That's a great distinction way of describing it.

[Jack Armstrong]

There are three categories that are consequential here. Pardons, executive orders, and laws. And let me break all three of these down, because there's real legal significance in the question that President Trump is raising. All right, first of all, pardon me, there are a whole bunch of folks that Joe Biden pardoned, controversial pardons, by the way. So including. So on the same day Joe Biden pardoned Anthony Fauci, he pardoned General Milley, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and then he pardoned every member of the January 6th commission. So he pardoned Benny Thompson and Liz Cheney and Zoe Lofgram and Adam Schiff and Pete Aguilar, Stephanie Murphy and Jamie Raskin and Elaine Lauria and Adam Kinzinger.

[Ted Cruz]

And by the way, they were begging for these pardons.

[Jack Armstrong]

All nine of them got pardoned. It's being reported now that the one pardon that Biden signed personally was his son Hunter Biden's pardon, but that all of the rest of these pardons were auto penned. And here's what President Trump tweeted out. He said, quote, the pardons that Sleepy Joe gave to the Unselect Committee of Political thugs and many others I gotta say, I love Nobody writes like Donald Trump.

[Ted Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jack Armstrong]

Are hereby declared void, vacant, and of no further force or effect because of the fact that they were done by auto pen. In other words, Joe Biden did not sign them. But more importantly, he did not know anything about them. The necessary pardoning documents were not explained to or approved by Biden. Now, let's talk about pardons first. So pardons do not have to be in writing.

[Ted Cruz]

Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

If you look at the language of the Constitution, Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1 says in relevant part, the President shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States. So the Constitution does not specify any particular form of a pardon. It doesn't specify, it has to be in writing. It simply says the President shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons. So with respect to pardons, whether it's signed or not, that's not a constitutional requirement. But what is a constitutional requirement is that the president grant it.

[Ted Cruz]

Interesting.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so what President Trump alleged is Biden didn't know about this, didn't know what he was doing. It was not his decision. I think it is entirely possible that we will see the Department of Justice prosecute someone who has received one of these auto pen pardons.

[Ted Cruz]

Really?

[Jack Armstrong]

If they prosecute someone, it's going to be someone for whom there is clear evidence of a federal criminal violation. But also it will be someone who there is evidence that Biden didn't know about it.

[Ted Cruz]

So they would have to bring. To do that, they would have to bring evidence he didn't know about it. And then does that kick off the big grand debate and the investigation? Because you bring those charges to say, okay, let's see if you can prove that he did know about it.

[Jack Armstrong]

So look, if DOJ brought an indictment against someone that Biden had pardon using an auto pen, the defense lawyer would almost immediately seek to get the indictment dismissed because there's. Because of the pardon.

[Ted Cruz]

Sure.

[Jack Armstrong]

And I would expect the court to litigate. The DOJ would argue this is not a valid pardon because it was not issued by the President. It was issued by a staffer manning the auto panner. And the question would be, did Joe Biden approve and authorize it personally or was this just the staff?

[Ted Cruz]

They just said, hey, give my buddy or our friend or our colleague or ally this.

[Jack Armstrong]

So, for example, they would look to, all right, did Biden make public statements about it? Was he interviewed? Did he stand at a podium? What did he say? Because that would go to, was he aware of it and did he approve it? Now, let's focus on statutes. Can the President sign a law and have it become a federal law by auto pen and not by signature? And here, actually, the question is actually pretty similar to the pardon question. It comes down to what Biden knew. So actually, in 2005, the US Department of Justice, the Office of Legal Counsel, they issued a formal opinion whether The President may sign a bill by directing that his signature be affixed to it. And the summary of the conclusion was the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and decides to sign in order for the bill to become law. Rather, the President may sign a bill within the meaning of Article 1, Section 7, by directing a subordinate to affix the President's signature to such bill, for example, by auto pen. And here the statutory language is, or rather the constitutional language is more explicit. So here's what Article 1, Section 7 says. Quote, Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the President of the United States. If he approves, he shall sign it. So sign it is explicitly there. You can't orally, sure, sign a law. You have to sign it.

[Ted Cruz]

But that's why bill signs are such a big deal.

[Jack Armstrong]

What the Department of Justice concluded, and this is a lengthy opinion, is the settled understanding of the meaning of sign. An individual can sign a document by directing that a signature be affixed to it by another. And so they conclude. This settled understanding of the meaning of sign leads us to conclude that Article 1, Section 7 permits the President to sign a bill by directing a subordinate to affix the President's signature to it. Now, I've got to say, as a legal matter, I think there's a strong case to be made that that is accurate, that you can authorize someone to sign a binding legal document for you if you're the decision maker.

[Ted Cruz]

And you say, hey, I'm on a plane is a great example, national emergency, worst case scenario. And you say, sign that right now to do what? X, Y, or Z.

[Jack Armstrong]

And let me give you an example I have personal experience with. So, as you know, when I came out of law school, I was a law clerk for Chief Justice William REHNQUIST on the U.S. supreme Court. And every time there is an execution in this country, almost without fail, there are emergency appeals that go to the Supreme Court. And they often will go and be concluded at midnight or one or two or three in the morning, because typically the death warrant is carried out right before midnight. And so the appeals are filed last minute. And so when that happens, there is a law clerk from every justice that remains at the court till the matter is resolved. And the Chief justice had jurisdiction over the D.C. circuit, but also the 4th Circuit, which covers a number of states that have capital punishment. And so when the execution occurs in the circuit that your justice is the lead for the justices will vote. They do it by phone. So you will read the emergency appeals, you'll summarize the emergency appeals, you'll call your justice, wake him or her up, explain the issues, and then the justices will vote at the end of the process. The very last thing that happens in the process is there is a form that is sent to the prison, and there were multiple, essentially death warrants that I signed, and I would sign them. Whr, slash tc. WHR was William Hub's Rehnquist. So I'm signing for the Chief justice tc because the chief was home in bed, so he was not physically signing it, but because I had authorization to sign it. You'd literally put it on then a fax machine, and at the prison, they'd pull it off the fax machine. And that signature that I had signed for the Chief justice was sufficient to carry out an execution.

[Ted Cruz]

The TC at the end is that just to clarify that you did it on behalf. Okay.

[Jack Armstrong]

And you see that sometimes secretaries, when they sign for someone, will do the same thing and put the slash to say who is signing it. What? I would say the critical question in terms of a law, look, there will be an argument that the word sign in the Constitution means sign. And so it's not a frivolous argument that the auto pen can't do it in any circumstance. And I would expect that potentially argument to be made. But the more powerful argument is, did the President direct that his signature be.

[Ted Cruz]

Affixed to it, or did a Safford go rogue?

[Jack Armstrong]

Did a staffer just say, yep, this is our policy, so put it in the autopad, it's signed. And listen, White Houses keep records. You've worked in a White House.

[Ted Cruz]

They keep meticulous records, especially on this level.

[Jack Armstrong]

And so I fully expect there to be litigation questioning, looking for a statute where there is not clear indication that Biden was aware of it, that he. He made a decision to sign it, but rather that simply, you had a White House staffer say, okay, this is our policy. Let's sign it. And if that's the case, I think there's. If the President did not direct that his signature be affixed to it, I think there's a real argument that is not a law that is not validly in the United States Code. That law is null and void. I think that. And by the way, it's not sufficient for the President at the outset to say, hey, I support this law. Okay. That's different from. You can say you support all sorts of law. Sure. That's different from making the decision, I am going to sign this law right now. Look, there are all sorts of laws that you can say you support, but the legislative process is like sausage making. You don't even know what's in the thing till it passes. And so finding early statements from Biden that I support such and such policy is not enough. I expect the question to be, and by the way, you don't have to wait for litigation because Donald Trump has access to all of the White House records that will show did Biden make those decisions? That's why ordering that investigation is so strong, because if they find a law that there is no record of Joe Biden saying, I want to sign this and I am directing you to sign this, then I think there's a real argument that law is not validly enacted.

[Ted Cruz]

It's incredible. We're going to keep covering it. Don't forget we do the show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that subscribe or auto download button so you do not miss an episode. Also, if you're watching this episode on YouTube, make sure you subscribe on YouTube as well as we put these out so you don't miss them either. Tell your family, tell your friends about this show and the Senator and I will see you back here in a couple of days.

[Jack Armstrong]

And here we have a specimen from the early 2000s, a legacy investing platform. Please don't touch the exhibit folks. It could crash.

[Lisa Booth]

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[J.R. Martinez]

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves.

[Ted Cruz]

This medal is for the men who went down that day on Medal of.

[J.R. Martinez]

Honor Stories of Courage. You'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jack Armstrong]

Why should you listen to Armstrong and Getty on demand? We're not boring. A lot of news is boring and tedious and depressing and makes you angry. You don't want to live your life like that. Hey, I'm Jack Armstrong. He's Joe Getty. We're Armstrong and Gettysburg. We try to bring you the truth and help you figure out this crazy modern world.

[Ted Cruz]

How about something about a comedic tone?

[Jack Armstrong]

We have a winner.

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[Jack Armstrong]

Listen to Armstrong. You get it on Demand on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.