BONUS: Proof that Biden Admin Targeted Christians plus Tucker Spirals Out of Control

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: BONUS: Proof that Biden Admin Targeted Christians plus Tucker Spirals Out of Control

Date: September 9, 2025
Hosts: Ben Ferguson, Senator Josh Hawley
Production: iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

This episode dives into two major topics:

1. Allegations that the Biden administration demonstrated systematic anti-Christian bias, as documented by a newly released Department of Justice task force report.
2. The hosts’ incredulous and critical response to recent controversial statements by Tucker Carlson, particularly his comments on Osama bin Laden’s family and remarks denying that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Throughout, Ben Ferguson and Senator Josh Hawley use a direct, impassioned, and often irreverent tone, mixing detailed policy critique with pointed sarcasm and political commentary. The discussion is framed as a defense of religious liberty and American resolve against terrorism, while also warning against perceived ideological drift on the political right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. DOJ Task Force: Proof of Anti-Christian Bias

[03:08–16:24]

• Background:
  Attorney General Pam Bondi leads a DOJ task force assembled by the Trump administration to investigate and address alleged religious discrimination against Christians under the Biden administration.

• Findings Highlighted:

  • The task force’s preliminary report details “numerous instances of anti-Christian bias” and offers recommendations for protecting faith in America.
  • Multiple federal agencies (Dept. of Defense, EEOC, Dept. of Labor) “deprioritized, mishandled or denied” religious exemption requests from Christians regarding COVID-19 mandates.
  • Representative quote:
    • Senator Josh Hawley: “Believing Christians were persona non grata under the Biden administration… The report concludes Joe Biden weaponized the full weight of the federal government against Christians and trampled on their fundamental First Amendment rights.” [03:43]
  • Department of Education imposed “record-breaking fines” on Christian universities, notably:
    • Liberty University ($14M)
    • Grand Canyon University ($37.7M)

• Host Commentary:

  • Ferguson paints these fines as a direct attack on institutions known for Christian values and conservative speakers.
  • Senator Hawley’s perspective:
    • “This pattern... combines the deep distrust and hatred of evangelical Christians with the weaponization of government.” [10:44]
    • Example from DHS: Customs and Border Protection excluded Christian perspectives in detainee directives but included protections for Islam, Judaism, and Rastafarianism.

• Specific Incidents of Persecution/Misconduct:

  • DOJ prosecuted “about two dozen individuals under the FACE Act for praying and demonstrating outside abortion facilities.”
    • Hawley: “They arrested approximately two dozen individuals for praying.” [13:42]
  • FBI targeted “radical traditionalist Catholics as domestic terrorism threats.”
  • Treasury was found to have “debanked” pro-Christian groups.
  • State Department “offered muted response to attacks on Christians compared to other groups” and favored certain non-Christian employees in employment practices.

• Steps for Reform and Accountability:

  • Transparency as Deterrent:
    • Hawley: “Much of this abuse of power...thrives in the darkness. There is power to just shining a light on it.” [12:51]
  • Call for firings and prosecutions:
    • “Any career federal government employee who persecuted Christians should be terminated... If anyone violated the law, if anyone committed criminal conduct, they should be prosecuted.” [17:08]
    • Cites the Lois Lerner/IRS controversy as a precedent for non-accountability under Democratic administrations.

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2. Tucker Carlson’s Alleged “Spiral” and Controversial Statements

[24:57–41:41]

• Recent Incidents:

  • Tucker Carlson expressed public condolences to Osama bin Laden’s family and questioned whether Hamas qualifies as a terrorist organization.
  • Hawley and Ferguson express shock and deep disappointment, contrasting this with Tucker’s prior conservative credentials.

• Quotes and Reaction:

  • Tucker Carlson (on Osama bin Laden’s family):
    • “Let me just say I would be totally comfortable sharing condolences with Osama bin Laden's family... That's called like human decency. And anyone who's against that…” [29:53]
  • Sen. Hawley’s response:
    • “This is a bizarre position… I am not remotely sorry that Osama bin Laden is dead. I am not remotely sorry that Adolf Hitler is dead...” [30:39]
    • “When someone who...calls himself a conservative sounds exactly like Ilhan Omar...that ought to be a sign you've got a problem.” [32:37]

• On Hamas as a Terrorist Organization:

  • Tucker Carlson:
    • “Seems more like a political organization, but whatever it is, they're telling us constantly they're Al Qaeda. So it can't also be true that Christians are a member of Al Qaeda.” [34:15]
  • Sen. Hawley’s fact-check:
    • Line-by-line refutes Carlson’s comments, citing Hamas’s charter, international designations, and October 7, 2023, attacks:
      • “Hamas is a terrorist organization. Globally, Hamas is designated [as such] by the United States… by Australia, Canada, Paraguay, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, UK, European Union…” [35:18]
      • Details atrocities committed by Hamas.

• Critique of Carlson’s Motives and Style:

  • Accuses Carlson of “bizarre moral relativism,” “sounding indistinguishable from the woke left,” and being soft on dictators like Putin and Iran’s President.
  • Ben Ferguson:
    • “I wish [Tucker] had this much animosity toward Vladimir Putin when he was interviewing him.” [39:05]
  • Allegation that Carlson targets “anybody that I don't like” in personal attacks, referencing his criticism of Mark Levin’s stepson.

• Takeaway:

  • For the hosts, this marks a “downward spiral”—a former champion of conservatism now “spooning” with America’s adversaries and “engaging in bizarre, counterfactual assertions.”
  • Hawley’s prescription: “If you say something publicly and the words you said are indistinguishable from something said by Ilhan Omar or Rashida Tlaib, that ought to be a sign you've got a problem.” [41:11]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Senator Josh Hawley on anti-Christian bias:

  • “Believing Christians were persona non grata under the Biden administration.” [03:43]

• On government targeting:

  • “They arrested approximately two dozen individuals for praying. Yeah, that was deemed a criminal offense.” [13:42]

• On the importance of sunlight:

  • “Much of this abuse of power...thrives in the darkness. It thrives when it is hidden.” [12:51]

• Tucker Carlson on Osama bin Laden’s family:

  • “[I would] be totally comfortable sharing condolences with Osama bin Laden's family…” [29:53]

• Sen. Hawley’s response:

  • “I'm not remotely sorry that Osama bin Laden is dead. I am not remotely sorry that Adolf Hitler is dead…” [30:39]

• On Hamas:

  • “Hamas is a terrorist organization...This is not just a question of opinion. This is a question of fact.” [35:18]

• On Carlson’s perceived drift:

  • “It is a weird thing when a supposed conservative sounds like Rashida Tlaib, sounds like AOC and says, gosh, we ought to be saying, I'm sorry to Osama bin Laden's family. No, we should not.” [32:37]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | | ----------- | ---------------------------------------------------------- | | 03:08–16:24 | DOJ Task Force on Anti-Christian Bias – findings, discussion| | 17:08–19:48 | Calls for accountability and prosecution | | 24:57–41:41 | Tucker Carlson controversy and analysis | | 29:53 | Tucker’s quote on Osama bin Laden’s family | | 34:15 | Tucker’s quote on Hamas |

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Tone & Style

• The hosts employ a blend of exasperation, dark humor, and direct political commentary.
• Hawley leans heavily on legal-constitutional language when recounting report findings.
• Ferguson often personalizes his reactions, speaking from the perspective of a Christian conservative audience and using direct, emotive responses to the news.
• Frequent use of sarcasm and ridicule, particularly regarding the Biden administration and Tucker Carlson’s controversial positions.

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Summary Takeaways

• The episode positions the latest DOJ task force report as damning evidence of Biden-era religious bias and calls for aggressive transparency and accountability.
• The hosts express profound disappointment and disbelief over Tucker Carlson’s recent statements, characterizing them as a betrayal of conservative and American principles.
• The discussion reflects ongoing anxieties on the American right regarding perceived governmental hostility, ideological purity, and the boundaries of debate on issues of faith, free speech, and foreign policy.

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For listeners seeking a summary of this episode, expect detailed policy breakdowns, emotional commentary, and sharp criticism of both government action regarding religion and media figures seen as straying from conservative orthodoxy.

Transcript

[Senator Josh Hawley]

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[Ben Ferguson]

Welcome. It is Vertic with center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. It is very nice to have you with us. By the way, this episode is also going to be up on YouTube as well. So if you want to watch the episode, you can watch it. Hit that subscribe button there so you don't miss an episode on YouTube that we do. We've got a lot, Senator, to talk about, including this headline. The Department of Justice task force finds, quote, numerous instances of anti Christian government bias under the Biden administration. This is a massive story basically about the government going after Christians.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Well, the facts are deeply disturbing. During the Biden administration, we saw the federal government target people of faith, but in particular, believing Christians. Believing Christians were Persona non grata under the Biden administration. And when President Trump came in, he created a task force chaired by Attorney General Pam Bondi looking at instances of religious discrimination within our government. This was the preliminary report from that task force detailing how multiple government agencies under the Biden administration targeted Christians for persecution. We're going to break all that down. We're also going to talk about a very sad development, which is the spiral down of Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson continues to get more and more extreme. And this week he decided to say that he wanted to apologize to Osama bin Laden's family. And he also said, astonishingly enough, that he didn't know if Hamas was a terrorist organization. He's just asking questions. Gosh, what has Hamas ever done to us? It really is sad to see what has happened to someone who used to be a conservative stalwart. He used to be not nuts. All that on today's podcast.

[Ben Ferguson]

If you've ever listened to the show before, you know I'm a big advocate for the Second Amendment and I've shared on numerous occasions how carrying a firearm literally saved my life from a gang related attack. But many of you out there may not feel comfortable carrying a firearm. Maybe you have a loved one that's just not comfortable. They need a way to protect themselves. And that's why I want you to know about burnout launchers. I have them and I've given them to many family members. Burn is a handheld pistol that fires both Kinetic rounds and chemical irritants to separate you from an attacker. And I'm here with Josh Sherrard from Burna to tell us how carrying a burner when taking a ride share could be a really good idea. Josh, what does your team learn about safety and ride sharing?

[Josh Sherrard (Byrna)]

So recently a story is broke about rideshare, including Burnett and Lyft, about the fact that they haven't been reporting nearly as many attacks between drivers and riders as previously believed. And unfortunately, some of these are as serious as sexual assaults, major assaults that are putting people in the hospital. So what we know is that there has to be something done in order to improve the safety from drivers and.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Riders on both ends.

[Josh Sherrard (Byrna)]

And unfortunately, Uber doesn't allow guns to be carried by riders in their cars. So we're looking at trying to find better ways to improve that safety so that when you're riding in a ride share, you understand that you're going to get from point A to point B and be able to do it safely.

[Ben Ferguson]

And unfortunately, a lot of the rideshare policies out there are not allowing riders to carry weapons inside the vehicle. But a burner is something you can use?

[Josh Sherrard (Byrna)]

Absolutely. They're explicitly stated in their policy that they do not allow riders to carry firearms in their cars. However, those policies say nothing about other less lethal weapons like burner launchers, which means that burner is a great solution for making sure that you can stay safe in these ride shares.

[Ben Ferguson]

Look, I got one. I carry one. My wife has one as well. Many family members. And if you want more information on how you and your family member can protect yourselves with a burner launcher, go to Byrna B Y R N a dot com Again, that's Byrna B Y R N a dot com Byrna dot com Right now, Senator, let's get started with this story. And this task force that was put together to eradicate anti Christian bias in our government is actually chaired by the Attorney General Pam Bondi. And what they have found is under the Biden administration, they weaponize the, quote, full way of the federal government against Christians. That according to Trump's leadership. They laid out a new report where there are numerous instances of past anti Christian bias and recommendations to protect faith in America, especially when it comes to our federal government going after people of faith.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Well, as you noted, Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, chairs this task force. We've had Pam Bondi as a guest on this podcast right at the beginning of her tenure. And let's break down what the what the task force found. Here's what Fox News reports. Quote, the Biden administration weaponized the full weight of the federal government against Christians, according to Trump leadership, laying out in a new report the numerous instances of anti Christian bias and recommendations to protect faith in America. This report, the task force had a clear mandate to ensure that, quote, any unlawful and improper conduct, policies or practices that target Christians are identified, terminated and rectified. And here's what the task force says in the overview. The damage that can be done when religious liberty is not protected and preserved for all Americans. The task force makes this commitment. The federal government will never again be permitted to turn its power against people of faith. Under President Trump and Attorney General Bondi's leadership, in partnership with all members of this task force, the rule of law will be enforced with vigor and every religion will be treated with equality in both policy and action. And the report adds, the days of anti Christian bias in the federal government are over. Faith is not a liability in America. It is a liberty. And I want to go through. There are numerous instances of anti Christian bias that the report lays out. The report concludes Joe Biden weaponized the full weight of the federal government against Christians and trampled on their fundamental First Amendment rights. The task force found that the Department of Defense, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the Department of Labor all quote, deprioritized, mishandled or denied request for religious exemptions to the Biden administration's COVID 19 mandate. So that's one aspect where you had believing Christians that wanted an exception to the COVID mandate and the Biden administration, if you're a Christian, you need not apply. The task force also found that the Department of Education under the Biden administration, quote, attempted to impose record breaking fines on some of the nation's largest Christian universities, including Liberty University $14 million and Grand Canyon University $37.7 million.

[Ben Ferguson]

By the way, let's just stop there and talk about Liberty University so people understand the history of Liberty. Liberty University has been a front and center university that is of Christian faith, Christian values, Christian students. They have had many, by the way, political people come there to speak, conservatives obviously among those. That is a clear attack on that university, trying to hurt that university, in my opinion. Your thoughts?

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Look, as you know, in 2016, when I ran for president, I launched my presidential campaign at Liberty University. Speaking at that convocation in March of of 2015, it was incredible. We had about 10,000 students there. Liberty is a tremendous institution, but it is a Bible believing evangelical Christian university. And to the Biden administration that meant it was an enemy that meant it was someone to be persecuted, to be targeted. And this pattern of animus, it really combines two things. One, the deep distrust and hatred of evangelical Christians with two, the weaponization of government. The willingness of the Biden administration to say, we've got the Department of Justice, we've got the FBI, we've got the Department of Labor, we've got the Department of Education, we've got the irs. We are going to use government to go after our enemies. That is a pattern we saw for four years. I'm really glad this task force is laying out the results because the results. But by the way, the Department of Homeland Security, here's what the task force found. That Customs and Border Protection omitted Christian perspectives from a directive for detainees, but deliberately noted accommodations for Islam, sex of Judaism and Rastafarianism. In other words, under the Biden administration, if you're a Rastafarian, Yaman, that was fully protected.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

But God forbid you're a Bible believing Christian, they never heard of you. Sorry, no one here. New number. Who this?

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, and you look at this and it goes back to there were a lot of, I think, suspicions. Right. And the suspicions were that the administration was anti Christian. If you brought up, of course, everybody in the media was like, that's absurd. That's absurd. We're now getting the documentation to show that, yes, these groups and organizations, universities that actually felt like they were clearly being targeted were right and now vindicated. The question is, how do we make sure this doesn't happen again? That's part of what Pam bonding the Trump administration are trying to accomplish here.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

One of the most powerful tools is sunlight. And one of the things that I've urged Pam Bondi I've urged just about every Department of Justice official has been confirmed. I've urged Cash Patel, the head of the FBI is engage in radical transparency. I've urged Bobby Kennedy at HHS engage in radical transparency. Shine a light on, on what the Biden administration did, make it public. Look, much of this abuse of power, it's like cockroaches. It thrives in the darkness. It thrives when it is hidden. There is power to just shining a light on it. And by the way, if anyone violated the law, if anyone committed a criminal act, they ought to be prosecuted. That's the next step of this inquiry. But the very first thing is just exposing it. So, for example, let's take a law, the Face act, the Freedom of Access to Clinic, Clinic Entrances Act. The task force found that the Department of Justice under the Biden administration arrested and convicted approximately two dozen individuals under the FACE act for praying and for demonstrating outside abortion facilities. And let me stop and repeat that. They arrested approximately two dozen individuals for praying. Yeah, that was deemed a criminal offense, praying and demonstrating. Well, there is that whole thing called the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, the First Amendment that protects the right to free speech, but not under Joe Biden. If your speech was in defense of the right to life, if your prayer was in defense of the right to life, they viewed you as a criminal defendant. And yet the way the FACE act is written, it is written to prevent, to protect the right of access to an abortion clinic. But it is also designed to protect the right of access to places of worship and crisis pregnancy centers. Here's what the report found. They would not enforce it for churches or crisis pregnancy centers. It was a pure double standards. If their politics agreed with you, then bring out the jackboots. If you're a little old lady praying, get ready to be in handcuffs. But if it's a church, if it's a pregnancy access center, by the way, we saw radical pro abortion forces firebombing pregnancy access centers and yet the Department of Justice did no arrests. It was simply not a priority. At the same time, the task force lays out that at the FBI, the FBI specifically targeted, quote, radical traditionalist Catholics as domestic terrorism threats. As treasury, the task force points out that many, quote, pro Christian groups have been debanked. This was a pattern across the board. The State Department, quote, limited humanitarian relief to Christians relative to other populations and offered muted response to attacks on Christians compared to other groups. And at the State Department, the task force said it discovered evidence that court, quote, preferential employment practices were afforded for those of non Christian religions while Christian employees, quote, were disfavored. And it continues to say it was particularly concerning that employees were less likely to be permitted leave for observation of certain Christian holidays as opposed to non Christian holidays.

[Ben Ferguson]

All right, so you hear that, Senator? And then here comes the million dollar question. We've exposed it, right? That's great news. We found it. Is there going to be any account now? I asked that question also asking this. The task force says they had a clear mandate again, Pambani in charge to ensure, quote, that any unlawful and improper conduct, policies or practices that number one, target Christians, they're identified, then terminated. And then they say it will be, quote, rectified. So I hear that. I'm actually a little bit hopeful. Does that mean, and I want you to put your lawyer hat on here. Does that mean that there's a real chance people could actually not only lose their job, but actually be charged with crimes?

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Well, I very much hope so. The first step is just transparency, making it public, cataloging it, giving specific instances which. This, this report, this report's a preliminary report. They're planning to put out a more fulsome report with extensive details and as much as they can, catalog it and build a public record that is valuable, it is important not just to have it abstract, but to identify who the decision makers were. Some of those decision makers are going to be political appointees from the Biden administration who are gone, who are out of office. Other decision makers are going to be career government employees who eagerly participated in the persecution of Christians. At a very minimum, any career federal government employee who persecuted Christians should be terminated. They should lose their job. It is important for that to be a firing offense because unfortunately, at some point in the future, we're going to have another Democrat administration. And the pattern we've seen from Bill Clinton to Barack Obama to Joe Biden is we've seen each Democrat administration get worse and worse and worse. And so whenever we have the next Democrat administration, if we don't do something significant, we can anticipate it will be even worse. One of the significant things is if people lose their jobs, if it becomes clear if you target Christians, if you violate the law, you will be terminated. That is important as a deterrent, is it's also important for accountability. And then if anyone violated the law, if anyone committed criminal conduct, they should be prosecuted. And the most likely instance of criminal conduct is if they lied under oath. And you frequently have individuals who testify before Congress or otherwise are lying under oath. That's the most direct way of criminal liability. You know, we remember back to Lois Lerner, who during the Obama administration targeted Christians at the irs. And Lois Lerner ended up pleading the fifth in front of Congress. She ended up refusing to testify. She ended up being held in contempt of Congress. And then the Obama administration refused to do anything about it. The Obama Department of Justice refused to prosecute the con, the contempt finding. That's a pattern that should not be replicated. And so everyone who violated the law needs to be accountable. That's important both for holding people accountable for past conduct, but also for deterrence going forward.

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[Ben Ferguson]

CTNCs21 + All right, Senator, I want to move to another issue, and this one deals with Tucker Carlson. I was actually genuinely shocked by the audio when this broke. I really couldn't believe what I was witnessing when this audio broke. Tucker Carlson is now coming out and he's like, saying he wants to give condolences to Osama bin Laden's family. And he says he's not even sure that Hamas is actually a radical jihadist organization. Those are his words. What in the hell is going on here?

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Yeah, Ben, you and I both know Tucker Carlson well, and something is wrong with Tucker Carlson. I don't know what the hell is wrong with him. But. But look, Tucker is someone. He's very smart, he's very talented. During the COVID lockdowns, Tucker's monologue every night was. Was destination tv. He was unloading on idiotic practices that were shutting our country down. I called him the midst of COVID I said, tucker, you're the single best thing on television every single night. Thank you for doing what you're doing. I look at the Tucker today. He is unrecognizable, as listeners of this podcast know. I went on Tucker's show. I knew Tucker was going to come after me. I knew he was going to come after me and sadly do so dishonestly. In the course of that two hour back and forth, it was a lot of firefight. It was a bloodbath, I think, on both sides. You saw Tucker engage in bizarre counterfactual assertions. He said, for example, Iran's not trying to kill the president. What do you mean? No, no, no, no, no. Iran. There's no evidence Iran's trying to kill the president. That is, of course, absurd. Multiple people have been indicted for being Iranian agents trying to kill the President, trying to kill former US Senior officials. But, but. And Tucker bizarrely said, you know, if Iran was trying to kill the president, well, then we should nuke them, which was a really bizarre proposition. No, we should not be nuking Iran or anyone else. But, but I gotta say, the week that, that I did the Tucker interview was the week right before the President launched the bombing attack on Iran's nuclear facilities. And, and Tucker was. Was spiraling at the time because he was attacking Donald Trump and saying if the United States bombs Iran, he said it will be World War iii. Number one.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

He said thousands of Americans will die. Number two. And he said America will lose. Number three, that Iran will beat us in World War Three. Yeah, every one of those.

[Ben Ferguson]

That's what he actually said at the time. Like, it was shocking when he said. Everybody was like, what are you talking about? America's gonna lose to Iran. Are you kidding me?

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Every one of those predictions, we now know the truth. They were laughingly, entirely totally false. And I gotta say, for some reason, when Tucker tried desperately to convince President Trump not to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and Donald Trump disagreed with Tucker Carlson, and Tucker put out his newsletter and said, well, you're not America first if you bomb Iran. And Trump responded, no, I'm the one that decides what America first is. And I'm telling you right now, defending America is America first. I gotta say it just started Tucker on this downward spiral. So in the weeks and months since then, he had some loon professor on talking about Hitler and saying, you know, there's a very good argument, the United States should have intervened in World War II on the side of Hitler and the Nazis. And Tucker kind of nods. Mm hmm. No, there is not a good argument. America should have supported the Nazis. The Nazis were evil, period. The end. I gotta say, any commentator, if you're sitting around thinking, you know what I need to do, I need to go out and embrace Adolf Hitler, defend Hitler, just pause right there, think about what you're doing, right? There are very few ironclad rules in politics or history or life, but I'll give you one. Adolf Hitler, always, always, always bad. Just trust me, this is a safe ground to be on. Yeah, Hitler bad.

[Ben Ferguson]

Can we add number two to the list real quick? Because if you, if you go Hitler first, let's throw in there next for, especially for people that are, I don't know, 45 and under. The, the most evil guy that we probably saw in our lifetime in, in real life, and that was a guy by the name of Osama bin Laden. Right. Like throw him out there. 9, 11, if you were alive, if you remember it, Osama bin Laden's another one. Don't, don't side with Adolf Hitler. And if you were my age, I'm 44 now. Don't, whatever you do, don't side with Osama bin Laden. Which brings us to this unhinged Tucker point number two.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Yeah, okay. I just want you to listen to what Tucker had to say about Osama bin Laden. Give a listen.

[Tucker Carlson]

Let me just say I would be totally comfortable sharing condolences with Osama bin Laden's family. I hate Osama bin Laden. On the other hand, if somebody dies, it's okay to say I'm sorry to his family that he had a toddler. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's immaterial. I would say that to the family of an executed murderer in a prison. It doesn't mean I support the murderer or the murderer. But this is family. Like, that's okay. That's called like human decency. And anyone who's against that.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

And it's against even.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

We're setting up this.

[Ben Ferguson]

Let me just be clear. If I meet any of the Osama bin Laden family members center, I'm not going to walk up back. Let me give you an American hug real quick. Thoughts and prayers like, no, that's not gonna happen.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Look, this is a bizarre position that, that Tucker says he's okay with giving condolences to Osama bin Laden's family. By the way, on his same reasoning, he'd be just fine giving condolences to Adolf Hitler's family. Let me tell you right now, I am not remotely sorry that Osama bin Laden is dead. I am not remotely sorry that Adolf Hitler is dead. By the way, I'm not remotely sorry that Jeffrey Dahmer is dead. I'm not remotely sorry that Ted Bundy is dead. I'm not remotely sorry that Charles Manson is dead.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

If people are evil, psychotic mass murderers, then society celebrates that they are no longer with us. There is justice. I believe in the principle of justice and understand Osama bin Laden led Al Qaeda. He planned 9 11. He executed 9 11. In which case nearly 3,000 people, most of whom were Americans, were murdered on September 11th. You and I were both alive. I was in Washington DC. Heidi was in the White House at the US Trade Representative's office. On 9 11. She evacuated the White House because those terrorists were murdering people. I lost a friend of mine, Barbara Olson, in the plane that crashed into the Pentagon when the two towers collapsed in New York City. That was a grotesque act of war, by the way. I'm also not sorry that the kamikaze pilots in Pearl harbor who murdered American sailors, I'm not sorry that they're dead. There is something bizarre. There is a moral relativism to saying, well, we should, number one, carry out an incredible military act that takes out Osama bin Laden, but then, number two, express condolences to the family, to the toddlers. We're so sorry we took out your psychotic daddy who murdered nearly 3,000Americans. No, we're not sorry. And this moral relativism, I gotta say, it is a weird thing.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

When someone who considers himself calls himself a conservative sounds exactly like Ilhan Omar. It is a weird thing when a supposed conservative sounds like Rashida Tlaib, sounds like the AOC and says, gosh we ought to be saying, I'm sorry to Osama bin Laden's family. No, we should not.

[Ben Ferguson]

By the way, it's also weird that he goes in this way, like attacking America and our foreign policy, in essence, and anybody that doesn't feel sorry for terrorists while also giving propaganda out there on behalf of Vladimir Putin in Russia with the interview that he did with him and then going shopping at the grocery store saying how great life is in Russia, which If you go 20 miles outside of Russia in any direction of Moscow, it's very different than what it looks like for the elite that are in Moscow. And everything in his trip was, by the way, also controlled. They only let you see what they want you to see. It's not like he can roam freely and decide, hey, I don't want to go to the earth shore you sent me to. I want to go to another one. That ain't going to happen. And that. And then you go from this to what he had to say about a terrorist organization that has killed countless Jews and has said from the river to the sea, they want to take out and annihilate all, all Jews in Israel. They want Israel to cease to exist. And he's like, well, hold on a second. Maybe they're not a terrorist organization. Maybe they're just a political organization. We should think about that. It's like, what the hell's going on?

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Yeah, give a listen to what he said about Hamas, because this is utterly bizarre. This, this is where Tucker has gone full on woke leftist. And don't take my word for it, listen to Tucker.

[Tucker Carlson]

No one can plausibly claim that a Christian family are in Hamas. Okay, so, like, what? Tell me. You can't claim that they're in Hamas while simultaneously claiming that Hamas is, you know, group of jihadis, they're Islamic extremists, which they also claim constantly, which I don't know if that's true, by the way. Seems more like a political organization, but whatever it is, they're telling us constantly they're Al Qaeda. So it can't also be true that Christians are a member of Al Qaeda.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Sorry. Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

So then we know they're not in Hamas. So why did they get killed? Why was their church?

[Ben Ferguson]

I go back to this and I again, it's like he's become an apologist for a terrorist organization and he's saying, well, they're not really a terrorist organization, they're. And then the Christian aspect of this and intertwining that they're going, well, then why do we kill them. We kill people that are terrorists, and that's what we do.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Well, what he's saying there is bizarre. I don't know that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Let me be very clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

[Ben Ferguson]

They'll tell you that. By the way, am I wrong? Like, they'll actually tell you they're a terrorist organization. They're happy to tell you this and show you how good they are at it.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. ISIS is a terrorist organization. This is not just a question of opinion. This is a question of fact. So let's give some fact. Article 8 of the 1988 Hamas Covenant states, quote, jihad is its path, and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of his wishes. This is who Tucker Carlson is defending. Globally, Hamas is designated a terrorist organization by the United States of America. That's as a matter of federal law. By Australia, by Canada, by Paraguay, by Israel, by Japan, by New Zealand, by the United Kingdom and the European Union. Now, Hamas is not formally designated by Arab countries, but Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. By the way, I have legislation in the Senate right now to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization because they unquestionably are. Article 2 of Hamas's charter describes them as, quote, one of the wings of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. Yeah, the Muslim Brotherhood, the umbrella organization, is designated as a terrorist organization in Bahrain, in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia, and in the uae. They have always been a terrorist organization. If you just look at Wikipedia. No, no friend of Israel, no enemy of Hamas. Here's what Wikipedia says. Quote, From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks. According to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign affairs, from 2001 through May of 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks into Israel. And of course, Hamas is who carried out the October 7 attacks, who sent death squads into Israel, where they systematically went house to house, murdering every person in the house, targeting them because they are Jews. They murdered elderly people, they murder women, they murdered children, they murdered infants, they murdered toddlers, they raped women and little girls, and they murdered over 1200 Israelis, many of whom were Americans. It's one of the worst terror attacks in history against American citizens. And Tucker says, well, I think they're a political organization. He bases this on the weird fact. Yes, it is true that in the Gaza Strip, when they had elections, Hamas won. The fact that the voters elected a Terrorist organization does not make them a political organization. They were in elected office when they carried out the October 7th terror attacks. And so I got to say, look, this bizarre statement was in the course of an episode where Tucker was interviewing this disgruntled State Department employee who was fired. Fired by the Trump administration.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yep.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

And he was giving him an opportunity. And by the way, he was also slandering a young man who works for the State Department, works for Mike Huckabee, the president Trump's ambassador to Israel, works for Marco Rubio. And Tucker did an entire segment attacking this young man. Why? Because he's Mark Levin's stepson. I gotta say, it is grotesque for Tucker to go after. I get he hates Mark Levin.

[Ben Ferguson]

He does. And let's explain why real quick. Because, look, Mark's a dear friend of mine and yours as well. This is a relative. Mark Levin. Mark Levin is clearly an advocate for Israel. He has stood there.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

And for America, let's be clear. And for America.

[Ben Ferguson]

America. And so now since Tucker Carlson, I guess, is like, all right, well, anybody that I don't like, right. Mark Levin, a family member, let's just hammer that person to somehow make it hurt. I wish he had this much animosity towards Vladimir Putin when he was interviewing him.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

No, and by the way, not just Vladimir Putin. He had the president of Iran. And I mean, it was a love fest. I mean, he practically spooned with the president of Iran. I don't know if he was big spoon or little spoon, but there was no skepticism. And by the way, he's literally interviewing someone who is actively trying to murder Donald Trump. And this is a weird game. So listen, Tucker recognizes that the folks that listen to him will get very mad at him if he explicitly criticizes Donald Trump. So what does he do instead? He just criticizes everything Trump does. He blast. He has a whole segment on how Mike Huckabee is terrible. Well, who is it that appointed Mike Huckabee the ambassador to Israel? That would be Donald J. Trump. And everything he attacks about Ambassador Huckabee he is doing on behalf of Trump. But Tucker is unwilling. He doesn't have the courage, he doesn't have the backbone to actually attack Trump. So he just attacks. Everything Trump does, he attacks bombing Iran. Well, who was the commander in chief who made the order? And by the way, that was an incredibly successful military operation that made America safer. I got to say, Listen, if you say something publicly and the words you said are indistinguishable from something said by Ilhan Omar or Rashida Tlaib. That ought to be a sign you've got a problem. And I don't know what's going on with Tucker. I don't know what is driving. It's one thing to feel kind of isolationist and to say, gosh, you know, I don't like wars. Okay, fine. That, that, that is a view. And to be clear, Donald Trump doesn't like wars either. Joe Biden and the Democrats get us in war. President Trump has gotten us out of war. But getting us out of war, you do it through strength. And getting us out of war does not mean that you refuse to defend America. Fine. If Tucker wants to be isolationist, knock yourself out.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Senator Josh Hawley]

But this bizarre apology and defense of Osama bin Laden and defense of Hamas and defense of the president of Iran, that is, there is something unhinged. And I hope people around Tucker go in and say, come on, man. Yeah, come on. Let's all say we love America and we're not gonna lie to the American people.

[Ben Ferguson]

Yeah, great point. Don't forget, we do this show Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Hit that subscribe or auto download button. Also, this episode is on YouTube as well, so if you want to watch it there, you can. And we also do that week in review the show that we do on Saturday. So if you missed a couple episodes during the week because you're busy, we give you the highlights of the biggest things from the week there as well. The center and I will see you back here on Wednesday morning. So don't forget, hit that subscribe or auto download button wherever you listen to this podcast and please share it on social media so other people will see the show and we'll see you back there then.

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[Ben Ferguson]

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