Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show Episode: Buck Brief - Should Trump Appoint an Epstein Special Counsel
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host: Buck Sexton
Guest: Kurt Schlichter, Author of American Apocalypse

Introduction

In the "Buck Brief" episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, host Buck Sexton engages in a compelling discussion with Kurt Schlichter, a multifaceted commentator known for his roles as an author, columnist, thinker, and veteran lawyer. The episode delves into two primary topics: the implications of former President Donald Trump potentially appointing a special counsel to investigate connections between Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, and a deep dive into Schlichter's new novel, American Apocalypse.

Pleading the Fifth: Biden's Legal Maneuvers

Buck Sexton opens the conversation by addressing recent developments where individuals connected to President Joe Biden have invoked the Fifth Amendment. Sexton poses a critical question to Schlichter:

Buck Sexton [01:26]: "People are pleading the Fifth when asked about Biden's mental state and the possibility of conspiracy to keep that from the American people. What do you make of it?"

Kurt Schlichter responds by explaining the strategic use of the Fifth Amendment:

Kurt Schlichter [01:31]: "When we use it, it's often to avoid being railroaded. When they use it, it's often to avoid accountability, which it does."

Schlichter elaborates on how the left may be expanding statutory definitions to encompass actions that typically wouldn't be considered crimes, thereby providing a broader scope for invoking the Fifth Amendment. He suggests that this tactic allows individuals to evade responsibility without clear evidence:

Schlichter [02:12]: "The left has created creative use of statutes to turn things that normal people wouldn't see as crimes into crimes... So, he’s like, 'I’m not exactly sure what they charged me for because it would all be nonsense.'"

Buck Sexton probes further into the potential crimes Biden could be implicated in, but Schlichter maintains that without concrete evidence, such charges remain speculative and largely unfounded.

The Epstein Special Counsel Debate

Transitioning to the Epstein investigation, Sexton expresses skepticism about the feasibility and efficacy of appointing a special counsel to probe the late financier’s connections:

Buck Sexton [05:02]: "I just look at this and I go, that's a terrible idea."

Schlichter concurs, describing the appointment of a special counsel as "awful" and argues that the Department of Justice (DOJ) should handle such investigations internally unless a genuine conflict of interest is present. He emphasizes the challenges in uncovering definitive evidence, especially given the sensitive nature of Epstein's crimes and the possibility that key evidence may no longer be available:

Kurt Schlichter [07:55]: "If that stuff was out there and people say things like there's a foreign intelligence service or that this was somehow a deep state cabal, they're not going to leave that stuff around. They would know where it is, and they would have cleaned this up a long time ago."

The discussion highlights the complexities and potential pitfalls of reopening Epstein's case without substantial new evidence, cautioning against baseless conspiracy theories that could undermine the integrity of genuine investigations.

American Apocalypse: A Glimpse into a Divided Nation

The episode transitions to a discussion about Kurt Schlichter's latest book, American Apocalypse. Schlichter describes the novel as a speculative portrayal of a divided America teetering on the brink of civil war:

Kurt Schlichter [11:26]: "American Apocalypse, the Second American Civil War is a book I wrote because I'm worried about... half of America, the left half, doesn't believe that the right half has any legitimacy to govern."

Schlichter illustrates a dystopian scenario where deep political polarization leads to the erosion of democratic norms and the rule of law. He warns of a future where mutual distrust and vilification between the political left and right escalate to the use of force and violence:

Schlichter [12:00]: "When you have a society that isn't run by laws and isn't run by political procedures, what's left to run it? Force."

He further explains that the novel serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of abandoning constitutional principles and resorting to authoritarian measures to settle political disputes. Schlichter hopes that his fiction will resonate with readers, encouraging them to value and uphold democratic institutions:

Schlichter [14:10]: "I wrote it as fiction because I wanted to tell stories of regular folks that we can identify with so we can see why it's so important that we get back to the Constitution."

Buck Sexton encourages listeners to pre-order the book, highlighting its relevance in the current political climate:

Buck Sexton [13:37]: "Go get your copy or get your at least your pre order in for your copy at Amazon. And wherever books are sold."

Conclusion

In this thought-provoking episode, Buck Sexton and Kurt Schlichter navigate complex political and legal landscapes, addressing the strategic use of the Fifth Amendment in high-profile cases and critiquing the proposal of a special counsel for the Epstein investigation. The conversation seamlessly transitions to exploring the themes of Schlichter's American Apocalypse, underscoring the urgent need for unity and adherence to constitutional values in preventing societal collapse.

Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of the challenges facing American democracy and the imperative to foster trust and uphold the rule of law amidst increasing political polarization.

Notable Quotes:

• Kurt Schlichter [01:31]: "When we use it, it's often to avoid being railroaded. When they use it, it's often to avoid accountability, which it does."
• Kurt Schlichter [02:12]: "The left has created creative use of statutes to turn things that normal people wouldn't see as crimes into crimes..."
• Kurt Schlichter [07:55]: "If that stuff was out there and people say things like there's a foreign intelligence service or that this was somehow a deep state cabal, they're not going to leave that stuff around."
• Kurt Schlichter [11:26]: "American Apocalypse, the Second American Civil War is a book I wrote because I'm worried about... half of America, the left half, doesn't believe that the right half has any legitimacy to govern."
• Kurt Schlichter [14:10]: "I wrote it as fiction because I wanted to tell stories of regular folks that we can identify with so we can see why it's so important that we get back to the Constitution."

Recommendation: For listeners interested in the intersection of politics, law, and societal trends, this episode offers valuable insights and a compelling preview of American Apocalypse, making it a must-listen for those navigating the complexities of contemporary American discourse.