← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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This is an iHeart podcast.
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You're listening to the Buck Sexton show podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. Our friend Alex Berenson is in the mix once again. We're going to talk to him about Make America Healthy Again, about the Biden cognitive decline story, which just got a big addition to that timeline from the New York Times over the weekend. And yes, some Epstein stuff because I haven't had his take yet on it. And we still have a lot of people who are very fired up about this. Mr. Berenson, of course, Unreported Truths on Substack. Go subscribe. Does great work there, sir. I just want to, I want to give you the floor. We haven't talked, you and I, on the show about Epstein stuff yet, people. What is your take with where we are right now on this?
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A
Well, I mean, look, I should be asking you because we know you handled him for the CIA. We know that was your job.
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B
Yeah, I shouldn't even joke how many people think I'm handling Clay for the CIA based on what he says of this. I'm like, guys, it's no one, no one could handle Clay, trust me. But anyway, go ahead.
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A
No, I mean, I mean, I almost didn't even want to make the joke because, like, I know just saying something.
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B
Yeah, no, there's going to be people in the comments who are like, he's saying it because it's true.
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A
It's like, ah, right. It's. No, no, it's not. I mean, look, I, I, you know, you said before we started, like, you, you feel like we've said, everybody said all there is to say. And I, I think you're right. But there is like, the reason this still has a hold is because it is so weird, right? What's happened in the last, you know, week and then last month with Elon saying, you know, that, that Trump was in the files and you know, this allegation about Bannon. I don't, I tend not to believe in big conspiracies. Ok. And so which is, which is.
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B
Saying something considering you were the guy that the Biden administration worked with big tech to like undermine and kick off the Internet and go after. And so for you to say you're not into conspiracies as a general matter, I feel like you have some credibility in the area.
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Right. And by the way, I can't get any of the Northern, I can't get anybody except you practically to Acknowledge that this happened, which is, you know, totally gaslighting and mind blowing and, you know, like insanity making for me this, that, you know, that the mainstream media will not cover that. So we know the mainstream media has blinders, okay? We know that, you know, that Jeffrey Epstein was a really bad guy and that he procured a lot of teenage girls. I don't think I, you know, I don't think they were five year olds, but, you know, they were, they were teenage girls. They were being taken advantage of. They were often from either poor families or poor countries. He was an intermediary for wealthy men to, you know, to. To get massages, to have sex with these girls. There's no question about all of that. Would that make him an attractive target to an intelligence agency or, you know, or even the FBI? Yeah, of course it would, right? I mean, that, that's not, that's not a conspiracy. I don't think to suggest that that's a possibility. Right. And by the way, if he were a cooperating witness, FBI or the CIA or the DEA, would they have interceded, you know, in the mid-2000s to, you know, try to get his prosecution, you know, either dropped or pushed way down.
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It was substantially, it was substantially downgraded from what anybody else would have ever faced for similar stuff.
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Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so, but, but like, again, I don't really think that suggesting that that's a possibility makes you a conspiracy theorist, nor does it mean that the, you know, that, I mean, something bad happened. But that happens, right? Like, we let murderers go to catch, you know, drug kingpins, right? We let drug kingpins go to catch arms traffickers, right? Like. Like there is a hierarchy and the US Government plays this game, right? Everyone plays this game. So, so to suggest that that might have happened I, well, 20 years ago.
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B
Because I think what people would say is that as they learn more about Epstein and What happened in 2019, was the Miami Herald story came out before that, and it. All of a sudden, it was, no, Epstein's actually, like, doing the worst. Like, he's the worst guy, right? Like, there is no worse.
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A
I mean, is he. Was he doing the worst or was he doing stuff that the people, you know, who made these deals knew? And, you know, and it wasn't child rape, let's say, you know, again, it was. It was. I'm going to bring in this 15 year old from, you know, from Romania, and she's pretty and she's going to be made available.
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That is.
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Look, that is that is a crime. You should be punished for that. You should be punished severely for that. That is not, you know, having sex with a two year old and then killing the, you know, two year old in some ritual murder. Let's be clear, right? Like what Epstein is sort of known to have done is not the stuff that is floating around out there. So, so, so here's the thing, like you can say and believe that probably Epstein, you know, flipped at some point, that he made information available again, whether it was the CIA, the dea, the FBI, some foreign intelligence service, who knows and still not think that the crazy stuff that they're like pedophiles, run the government and, you know, it's all being kept secret to save, you know, George Bush from having to admit that he was Barack Obama's lover or whatever that, you know, whatever the nonsense.
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B
I mean, I'll say this. I've had a lot of people, I've had a lot of people from the radio show audience, for example, very angry at me, very angry at Clay. And I still uphold, I think that Epstein was engaged in blackmail. I think he might very well have been an asset or an agent of a intelligence service or a foreign power. I leave those open as possibilities and those are ones that I find likely. What I don't have is proof of this or rather such specificity that I can say this group, that individual, whatever it may be, and I do know they've. I do know that he received treatment that nobody else would have. That is a fact. I do know that the suicide was super sketchy. That as a fact. And also the way that this has been handled with the binders and the rollout, ok, that's all. But at the end of the day, the people who are mad at me, I keep saying you actually, if you're mad at me as just somebody who is analyzing and talking about public domain, you really should just be mad at Donald Trump because he's told you now very clearly we have shared what needs to be shared. This issue is over with. That is from Trump himself at this point. So it is not, it is the irrational break that I've had to make clear, rather the cognitive dissonance that I've had to call out is you can't be mad at people who don't agree with you on this, but not be mad at Donald Trump, right?
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No, but I totally agree. I think you've laid it out perfectly. But I think people are mad at Trump. I mean, I think, it seems to me from the emails I get and what I See on X that some of them are.
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Some of them are. That's what I'm just saying. You can't be mad at the people that aren't as far, you know, as sort of fired up on this issue as as some of the people out there seem are very clearly are without saying that this is, I mean, this is a decision, this decision has truly been made from the top now that this is the information that's out there and Trump has made the decision. So that is where this is.
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Is he going to be able to hold to that? You know, I guess we'll see. But clearly there are people who are unsatisfied. And what's also very interesting is now that the left, right, the left, which is always, we believe in science, we believe in conspiracies, they've seen an opportunity.
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B
They realize there's a huge fracture that they can exploit here. And they're finally, it's. I've been, everybody I know on the right has actually been talking about this for the last week, which is, you know, they keep, on msnbc, they keep running these like, you know, teary eyed, like, look at the illegals they're getting rid of. And everybody on the right is like, yes, I voted for like, you know, this is, this is getting us excited. Right. They don't understand. We're done with this. That doesn't work. What actually, if you're looking to create problems or fan the flames, is this Epstein stuff on the right. And the Democrats have finally woken up to that. So. All right, I think we've set our piece on that for now. And like, you want one more thing? Go ahead.
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No, no, that's it. I would just say the only thing that I ever saw that were that got between Trump and the MAGA base in any way was the vaccines. And he successfully navigated that, actually. I mean. Cause you know, there were a lot of people, there were a lot of people who didn't like the vaccines, who didn't like the mRNA's. And what he figured out was he could say he was against the mandates and you know, and that would satisfy people. I mean, and you know, I did think Ron Desantis would be able to make a huge issue out of that in 2023 and he was not able to. So perhaps Trump will find a way to navigate this. But this is bigger than, than the MRNA's.
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Oh, yes. No, I think for a lot of people, certainly right now it is. All right, a word from our sponsor here before we dive into the Biden dementia Cover up thing because we got more on that for the New York. Alex used to work at the New York Times. We can have a fun conversation about that. I love just putting it out because I'm sure there are so many libs who see that the notion that you were ever even allowed in the building. Mr. Berenson, they must seethe at this idea. But first up, our sponsor here is Birchgold. And as you know, the big beautiful bill passed. There's a lot of good stuff coming in. The Trump economy. Trump economy's already really cooking and I think it's gonna get even better. But he's only in office for four years and 37 trillion in debt we have is not going away. Purchasing power has been going down for years and years now because of the excessive spending. And you need to find ways to protect your wealth and to diversify. That's where gold comes in. It's time for you to get some gold to hedge against inflation, economic instability and the long term challenges we have to the dollar. And Birchgold is who I trust to do this for you. They've helped tens of thousands convert an existing IRA or 401k into an IRA in physical gold. Okay, Birch Gold Group, text my Name Buck to 9898 98. Birchgold. To help you with a free no obligation info kit. Text my name Buck to 9898 98. Today, Birchgold Group, they are the best in the business. I have to say, I think that the, the, the Biden dementia cover up is one of these. It's an issue where the Democrats keep trying to, they keep trying to head it off or put it to bed or start to. And they always seem to make it a little worse in my mind. And I, you know, and an example of this for me is the New York Times with this big piece about, oh, Biden knew about all the pardons is basically the headline. Right? Paraphrasing. And, and then you get into it and it's very clear. No, he absolutely did not know what was going on with all of these pardons. No idea.
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You're right. He knew that he was pardoning Hunter the rest of it. It was sort of like, hey, Mr. President, we think that there are too many people in jail for nonviolent drug crimes. Okay. And like that was more or less it. Right. And like then they would be, you know, the chief of staff and people two levels down would debate who should be in and out. And I mean there was one. It's funny, you're making me want to write about this, you know, it's sort of one of these pieces where I go through a New York Times article and tell. Tell you what it really says, because the facts are in there, but the truth is still hidden because the way they write it, there's. There was an email late in the piece that they mentioned, and it was like, Mr. Zentz, who was the chief of staff at the time, who. This is a name I know very well because he was the COVID the head of the COVID response in 2021, and he got promoted for that. So he sent out an email saying it's okay to use the autopen. Well, shouldn't it be the president sending out the email saying it's okay to use the auto pen? But you're absolutely right. Like, like you are not getting the impression of a chief executive who is like, down in the nitty gritty. I mean, to the extent he has any idea what's going on, it's in the broadest strokes.
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Yes. And I think that the problem for places like the New York Times and others in this whole process is how can you have any credibility to talk or report on this issue at this stage when essentially the only way to maintain any credibility is to tell everybody we were so dumb and so incapable of basic observation that we missed this. Now, I, of course, think that they have to say that because to point out that they were just colluding in a giant lie to get a guy elected who was a vegetable is even worse for them. But we're so dumb, we couldn't see what everybody else could plainly see. That's a tough, That's a tough brand hit. You know, this is why CNN has like 50,000 people watching now.
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Especially when you're the New York Times and you, you know, you think you're the smartest and you tell everyone you're the smartest. Your brand is sort of being the smartest. No, what they, what they really need to do is, you know, look, they, as I, as I joke, although it's not a joke, they'll acknowledge me on the 12th of never. But like, they need to bring me or Taibi or somebody else in to write the piece. Like, to be the person who investigates how the Times did this with full editorial control. They're not allowed to edit it. And they just, you know, they cooperate, they open their documents and they just publish what I write or what Tyb writes. That's, that's the only way forward for them on this issue. They'll never do it. You know, Jake Tapper I mean, you could see how desperate they are to move forward from this because Tapper's book, which is just a bunch of Democrats, you know, complaining that they were misled and a few reporters, and basically ends where it should begin, ends with the acknowledgment that Biden was a vegetable. Well, thanks for that, Jake. Thanks. You can see that book got like incredible acclaim from all these people on the left because they do want to pretend that like somehow there were, you know, three people in the White House who knew Biden was demented and everyone else couldn't see it.
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But, but see the big part of that, that is a huge miss, which there's a lot of parts of that book that's a huge miss. But one part of it that stands out is in all of this, no one is actually lying named in that book, from what I understand. Right. It's everyone says someone to me and somebody was covering this up. But there's no person the book even insinuates is the one doing the lying and the covering up. Right. So it's, it's like a book about, right, It's a book about a murder where you never hear who the murderer is. I mean, you never hear like who actually did the thing. It's just somebody's like, oh my gosh, can you believe that someone killed this guy over here? Like, what a terrible thing it is that some other person did. No one is responsible. It's preposterous.
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The book is preposterous. It is preposterous. And you can see that, like there are smarter Democrats. The Times actually did have a story today about these sort of center left Democrats who are acknowledging what a, you know, what a, like anchor this is, that they're stuck still having to talk about this more than a year later, but they still can't figure out how to get out of it because it really will require and for the media even more because the media is supposed to be independent, like an acknowledgement of we just didn't like Donald Trump and we were willing to do anything to.
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Keep him out that would be true. That to me, I actually appreciated it more when they said the truth is anti Trump, therefore in telling the truth, we have to be anti Trump. Right? That was the circular logic that the Washington Post and these others, and you know what I said, you guys are insane. But at least that, you know, at least there's some, there's some authenticity or some, some, some integrity to that.
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Right?
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Like you're just telling us that you're Just propaganda now. Right. But in this one, there's still this. Oh, yeah, we were so dumb we couldn't figure it out. Which I think nobody believes. All right, our sponsor here. Our sponsor here. Real quick, Alex. And then, and then I gotta ask you about Maha. And then we're actually at time. We're having too much fun. It's flying. Yeah. Responsor here is Paradigm Press. There's something under American soil that has a value to it in the trillions of dollars. 160 trillion, to be more precise. It's been there forever. This is not new. This endowment is so large it could pay off our national debt four times over. Now, thanks to a Supreme Court decision, the Trump administration could soon release that endowment to the public. Jim Rickards, former advisor to the White House and Federal Reserve, says if you're over 50, this could be your best chance to build lasting wealth from a once in a century event. It's a big statement. To hear more of what Jim has to say, go online to birthright2025.com that's birthright2025 to get the details free of charge, paid for by Paradigm Press. All right, what's the most. We only got a couple of minutes. Alex, what's the most interesting health story you're working on right now? Big Pharma, yada yada. What's keeping you up at night?
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A
Well, I mean, you know, I think that the, you know, the efforts, the efforts that, you know, RFK and J. Bhattacharya at NIH and Vinay Prasad at FDA and Marty Mockery at FDA are making, or Makari, I should say, FDA are making right now to try to put some limits on the MRNA shots. And the way the pushback, the unbelievable pushback that they are facing for doing stuff that wouldn't even put the United States in line with Europe, okay, Most European countries have essentially halted the use of these vaccines for almost everybody under 65. And, and when, and when these guys are trying to move us a little bit in that direction, it gets talked about like they literally are trying to, you know, throw babies under a bus. It's not. I mean, it's, it's. Look, most people aren't getting the COVID vaccine, so this may seem like a theoretical argument, but to me, it's a very important debate and discussion because it shows you how insane the US Health system is about, you know, about vaccinations, about mandatory vaccinations, about, about not considering the risk and benefit of new vaccinations. And just how difficult it is to get these people to, I mean, to look at the data and the science. They claim that they care about data, they claim that they're science driven, but it turns out that they're just completely ideologically blinkered on this issue and on a lot of health issues. And so I'm really watching what's happening with the MRNA's very closely. Obviously, it's something I care about a lot and written about a lot, but I think it's also a sign of something much bigger.
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B
Alex Baronson, everybody. Unreported truths on substack. Go subscribe. Mr. Berenson, always a pleasure. Thanks.
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A
Thank you, sir.
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