← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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- [00:00]
Clay Travis
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
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- [01:15]
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- [02:13]
Clay Travis
With Special guests. Get tickets Friday, January 16th 10am@livenation.com Chris.
- [02:26]
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Stapleton's All American Roadshow.
- [02:30]
Clay Travis
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. Trump right now is in Michigan. He's going to be giving a speech in Detroit. Motor City. That's right.
- [02:43]
Senator Ted Cruz
Right?
- [02:43]
Clay Travis
It's Motor City.
- [02:44]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, it is.
- [02:45]
Clay Travis
Yeah.
- [02:45]
Buck Sexton
My wife's hometown. She's up there right now.
- [02:49]
Clay Travis
I wish I could speak to it with tremendous fondness, but I have never been to Detroit, Clay, so I should probably go check that place out. Never been in the city of Detroit before. So I'm going to, I'm going to go see. I might bust out my rhymes.
- [03:00]
Buck Sexton
Maybe better to put on the target list, especially in the summer. But, but I've spent a lot of time in Detroit. It's a better city than I think it gets credit for.
- [03:09]
Clay Travis
This is like, what I said about Chicago, Carrie and I, my first ever time in Chicago, I went in May and it was 75 degrees and crystal clear skies and everything was fantastic. And I'm like, I think I'm, I.
- [03:21]
Buck Sexton
Think I did it.
- [03:21]
Clay Travis
Like, I don't know. I don't, I don't need to go back to Chicago in January now. I had perfect Chicago in May. So maybe I'll go to Detroit this summer. But Trump is there right now and he's hoping to get the American people. And obviously his administration's very much focused on the economy and there are some challenges going into. Of course, there's always going to be economic challenges. No one's ever going to be. This is one thing I just want to say, Clay. No one's ever going to wake up, be like, you know what's perfect? The American economy. I mean, you can be grateful for the fact that America does have the best, most dynamic wealth generation machinery for any nation state, for any political entity in the history of the world. I'm like, we should remember that. But there's always going to be things that you want to change that aren't working right. There's always going to be problems. Ok. That's why we have a government that has to handle these things. They don't do a good job, but at least theoretically, that's what they're supposed to be doing. I think Trump is, though, doing on the economy a good job. I think he knows that it's absolutely critical for the American people and also for the upcoming midterms because his agenda becomes, let's just say, a lot harder to implement. If they lose control of the House of Representatives, they will impeach Trump a third. I don't even think you and I can have a bet on this one. Right? You agree they're going to impeach Trump a third time if they win the House, right? You agree with that?
- [04:46]
Buck Sexton
100%? No. 100%. They're going to impeach him. And look, I wish they would just.
- [04:53]
Clay Travis
Do it and not even tell us why. Like, we're just impeaching him because he's so awful. Just get it over with.
- [04:58]
Buck Sexton
I just Feel like the whole concept of impeachment, if you don't have any pathway to 67 votes, which I don't think by and large there will be in any of the lives of any of the people listening right now, then all of it's just a big sham and a big sideshow theater. First you were. Yeah, it's just not impactful.
- [05:18]
Clay Travis
It's like a, like a vote of censure or something. It's sending Trump, it's the congressional majority sending Trump a strongly worded letter that he will not care about one bit. But anyway, I think that on the, on the economy, we all know that affordability is a, is a big challenge. And you know, there's some polling out there that says that he's at a rough spot right now with the economy. Now, it's interesting you look at what the things are that he could do. You and I haven't discussed this yet. Capping credit card interest rates at 10%. I'm, I'm of, I'm of a, I'm of a few minds on this, I would say. And I want to hear what you, Clay and I haven't pre. We haven't. Sometimes we're like texting our ideas back and forth about things. So I'm just going in on this cold. On the one hand, I think credit card companies have had far too much lobbying power. They've had Joe Biden doing their bidding in Delaware, for example, for longer than I've been alive. The fact that they can charge a 30%. Oh, all right. Well, we're going to have to put a little pin in our credit card discussion. We're going to come back to it. All right, Clay, can we make a promise we'll come back to it?
- [06:28]
Buck Sexton
Yes, we will return. I jotted it down.
- [06:30]
Clay Travis
We have an esteemed, an esteemed caller has joined us. Senator Ted Cruz of the great state of Texas. Senator, it's been a while. Happy 2026. How you doing?
- [06:41]
Senator Ted Cruz
I am, I am doing fabulous. And you'll appreciate I'm doing particularly well because I, I enjoyed last night the Texans whipping the Steelers ass. That, that just brought great joy to my heart. That was a beat down it vindicated as a little kid growing up in the 70s in Houston, the 79 and 80 AFC championships are still wounds that have not healed as the greatest Oilers team we ever had with Earl Campbell crashed into the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I feel like we got a modicum of justice and revenge for a decades old wound.
- [07:17]
Clay Travis
Well, as I know we have a massive Houston audience and are number one consistently in the slot. Senator Cruz, whatever the people of Houston root for, I root for. This is my. So if it's the Texans, I'm on board. Talk to us if you would, on the serious side of things for a sec. Actually, can I get, can you we, this is a longer discussion. I want to ask you about Iran. Obviously, I know you're going to have a lot on that. And I'm getting people right reaching out to me saying family members, friends of mine who have either themselves or they have friends or family who are in Iran are desperate for some kind of help. They have full. We'll get to that in one second. It's a smaller thing, but affordability is a huge thing. The credit card 10% cap, what do you make of that? Senator, you take a very straightforward approach to finances and the American people's budgets.
- [08:04]
Senator Ted Cruz
Look, we've tried that approach in the past. Both Nixon and Carter tried an approach very similar and it didn't work. When you cap prices, what you end up doing is you exclude a whole bunch of people from the market. So you know what, if you're rich, if you have great credit, a cap of 10% does not limit your ability to get credit because you've got good enough credit that frankly, you're not paying 10% anyway. The people that will get hurt by a 10% cap are people who are low income, people who are struggling to get credit, people who have bad people who have a record of defaults. And if you cap it at 10%, what it's going to mean is they're not going to be able to get any credit cards at all. Basically, you're taking away credit cards from every person for whom the credit risk is greater than a 10% rate justifies. And look, for many people, if you've got a higher interest credit card, you're doing that because you got bills. Maybe you got to pay rent, maybe you got to pay buy groceries that week, maybe you got to pay for, you know, your kid to get braces. And if you can't get a credit card, it will drive every one of those people to an even worse credit option, whether it is a payday loan or whether it is a loan shark down the street. And so I think the law of unintended consequences is really quite significant here. And I think there are a lot of downside risks.
- [09:27]
Buck Sexton
Okay, let's go into Iran and what's going on in the country right now. President Trump earlier today had a very aggressive statement that he made. And I see Ambassador Mike Waltz just tweeted in the last little bit, the Iranian people are chanting death to Khomeini rather than death to America. Freedom is in the air thanks to President Trump's leadership. If President Trump called you and he may well do it and said, what should I do? What is the appropriate tack to establish here right now? What would you tell him?
- [10:00]
Senator Ted Cruz
Well, listen, I think what the President is doing right now is exactly right. We are at a moment of history, an incredibly consequential moment. I think there's a very real possibility that in the next 90 days we will see the regime in Iran fall. And I think we could see the regime in Cuba fall. Those two together, if both oppressive dictatorships fell, would utterly transform the geopolitical frame worldwide. In Iran, we are seeing millions of people standing up against the Ayatollah Khamenei. And I think we could see that that regime fall within weeks and even days or even hours. It could fall today. It is that precarious. And. And I gotta tell you, Clay, the reason for that. Let's go back a few months ago to the 12 Day War. One of the things I said at the time is that I predicted that the regime, I believe, would likely fall as a consequence of that. Because there are real world consequences to losing a war. Losing a war is not just a communications problem. It's not just a messaging problem. It is reality that in the 12 Day War, Iran utterly and completely lost. They were decimated. And if you are an Islamist dictator, if there is anything possibly worse than losing a war, it is losing a war to Israel. And dictatorships remain in power by convincing their people that they cannot be defeated, that they are omnipotent. And the crushing Defeat in the 12 day war destroyed that false image. It showed to the people of Iran that the dictatorship is a paper tiger. And I think we are seeing incredible heroes and patriots standing up. There was one young woman a couple of days ago who was lighting her cigarette by lighting on fire a picture of the Ayatollah and using that to light her cigarette. That is incredible courage. Because understand, if the Ayatollah remains in power, they are likely to find her, to hunt her down and to torture and kill her. She knows exactly what she's doing, and she is very literally risking her life to try to seek freedom. And so, you know, Clay, you tweeted a couple of days ago that what is happening in Iran is the most important thing in the world right now. You are exactly right. I retweeted you. In fact, I read Your tweet on my podcast, Verdict with Ted Cruz. This is a moment. There are very few things, if anything, that could enhance American national security more than seeing the ayatollah and the mullahs removed from power by the Iranian people. Because the Ayatollah, he routinely chants death to America. He is an Islamist, theocratic, genocidal, homicidal dictator. And seeing him removed from power, he has killed a vast number of American servicemen and women. He has waged war against America for years and for decades. And I think we may well be on the precipice of the Iranian people saying, enough is enough.
- [13:17]
Clay Travis
Senator Cruz, we certainly are at a place where there could be a huge pivot point in Iran. And I think a lot of people listening right now are very enthusiastic about the prospects of a different regime there led by the Iranian people. And. But of course, we have the concerns about intervention. What would it look like? What would it be to the point that Clay, or the question that Clay posed to you a moment ago, if the commander in chief, we know that you and President Trump talk, we know you guys have each other's phone numbers, et cetera. If you were to call you in five minutes and say, ted, I'm thinking about blowing up the following targets, which I think are at the absolute heart of the machinery of murder against these protesters right now. IRGC headquarters besieged, whatever it may be. Do you think that's the move? No U.S. boots on the ground, but if missiles have to fly through the sky to help the Iranian people achieve freedom, would you be in favor of it?
- [14:08]
Senator Ted Cruz
Possibly. It depends on the details and the specifics. I am talking to President Trump frequently throughout this process and encouraging. I think the path he's following in Iran makes sense. I spent the entire day yesterday with Pete Hegseth. We flew on Pete's plane back from Brownsville from SpaceX to D.C. late last night. I spent much of that plane ride talking with Pete about Iran and what we should be doing. And in my view, number one, we should be doing everything we can to encourage the revolution from the American people. That includes cyber efforts. I think if suddenly the Iranian regime, if their surveillance, if their radar, if their tools of oppression cease to operate, that is a very good thing. Covert action, I think that is a very good thing. In terms of a kinetic strike, an actual military strike, it might make sense to do so, but it would depend on the specific target, and it would have to be limited. Right now. This is a revolution from the Iranian people. We want it to be a revolution from the Iranian people. And so if there were a particular kinetic strike, if, for example, the regime were murdering protesters in one specific location and we could stop them from doing that, we could engage in a limited matter to stop the mass murder of protesters. I think that could well make sense. But. But we do need to think about the day after that. If the revolution succeeds, and I pray that it does, then the question is, okay, who governs Iran going forward? And that's not an easy question. There could be a civil war. There could be lots of unrest, lots of bad outcomes can happen. And I think it is a much, much better situation in the tomorrow world. If the Ayatollah was overthrown by the American people who were fed up with his oppression and tyranny and Islamic dictatorship, then if people say, oh, the United States just toppled the head of Iran, that's a much harder situation to have a good, stable government. And so I think President Trump is doing this just right. If you Contrast, look, in 2009, the Green Revolution, the people of Iran were standing up, and Barack Obama was president. He did everything he could to douse water on those flames and to tell the protesters, we will not stand with you. What the President is saying is, America is with you, the people of Iran. And he also said today this was very important. He said the regime henchmen that are engaging in atrocities, that are murdering and torturing people, keep their names because they will be held accountable. That's a major way to protect the protesters. To have, if you're an Iranian soldier and you're being told, open fire on the crowd. Suddenly, if you think I'm going to be put in front of a court and tried in another month if I do this, that's part of how revolution succeeds. So I think we should do everything we can to encourage it without taking it over, while leaving the Iranian people as the prime movers, that this is their country and they should be determining their future.
- [17:12]
Buck Sexton
Quick question here. To close with you, Senator Ted Cruz. You were with Elon yesterday, SpaceX, as well as Secretary of War Pete Hegseth. How good of information do we have on the ground? They've shut down the Internet, they've shut down all communication. How much do you think we know about what might be happening there? You said potentially within hours he could be overthrown. Do we have that kind of intel?
- [17:36]
Senator Ted Cruz
Look, we don't know specifically. I think it could be imminent. Just based on the size of the protest, on the energy, on the weakness of the regime, I will say one of the most important things that happened is that Elon has activated Starlink over Iran and has provided it for free, which is providing communication. The regime has shut down the Internet. The regime has tried to shut down television, actually, ironically. Do you guys know the main thing? Do you know what the Ayatollah is broadcasting all over Iran right now? In Persian?
- [18:09]
Buck Sexton
Tucker Carlson.
- [18:10]
Senator Ted Cruz
He's playing Tucker Carlson. That's what the Ayatollah is playing. Translated into Persian I talked about in my podcast yesterday. Look, you and I have both known Tucker a long, long time. In all seriousness, if an Islamist murderer who hates America views your words as the propaganda he wants to use to silence and oppress his people, that's got to be a real sign. Maybe you're on the wrong path. Maybe you need to rethink what you're saying, because I'll tell you at the same time my podcast verdict with Ted Cruz. Our download numbers have skyrocketed in Iran. I think people are using Starlink to download the podcast. And if my words, if your words are encouraging the protesters that you can overthrow these despots, I am very happy with the side of history you and I find ourselves on.
- [19:06]
Clay Travis
Senator Cruz, thank you so much. And tell the. Tell the good folks of Iran to listen to Clay and Buck while you're at it, if you can.
- [19:11]
Buck Sexton
Thank you for being here.
- [19:12]
Senator Ted Cruz
You guys do a phenomenal job.
- [19:14]
Buck Sexton
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- [20:01]
Clay Travis
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Buck Sexton
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- [20:36]
Clay Travis
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- [21:01]
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- [22:11]
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- [22:40]
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- [23:12]
Buck Sexton
Travis Buck Sexton show we thank all of you for hanging out with us. We are talking about a lot of different stories out there that continue to get much attention. Minneapolis, the Supreme Court decision coming now in the wake of the oral arguments that were heard in the Trans sports related issue. And but Buck, you said as we were, I think it was last hour, right before we had Senator Ted Cruz on, we were discussing the credit card debt idea and the. In particular, President Trump tweeted that he was going to try to cap credit card interest rates at 10%. Right now, I believe the interest rates have crept up often north of 20% is the current credit card rate. So I've got a couple of thoughts on this. To me, basically what we talk about when we talk about credit card interest rates is what is the rate that we will allow to happen. Right. Because we're basically capping them at 25%. Ish. And saying that's as high as we will allow them to go.
- [24:28]
Clay Travis
I think they're capped at 36%.
- [24:30]
Buck Sexton
36%. Is that as high as it's allowed under traditional credit cards?
- [24:35]
Clay Travis
I mean, I, I think I have credit cards that are at like 29. So I mean it's definitely higher than just like 20. It's, it's upwards of 30%.
- [24:44]
Buck Sexton
It may partly be state determinant too. I, I will be honest with everybody out there. I am not an expert on credit card interest rate, what the rates are that are allowed. And I know they're different depending on where you might live or what your overall credit rate is. First of all, I don't know that the President has the authority to be able to do this legally. I know there's bills out there that would potentially cap this. Ted Cruz said, hey, here's my concern. He was just on with us last hour when you asked him this question, to what extent does that curtail the amount of interest that is available in the market? Because I think what the credit card companies would argue is the reason we have to have rates that high is because if we're going to extend credit to people that may not pay us back, we have to have an ability to make sure that we make the best possible profit that we can to alleviate the risk that comes with making credit card credit available to everyone. Now you just said, buck, your credit card interest rate you think is 29% on your credit card. I don't even know what my credit card interest rate.
- [25:54]
Clay Travis
I think that's if I miss a payment.
- [25:56]
Buck Sexton
Yeah.
- [25:56]
Clay Travis
Then they jack it. They skyrocket it up. If you miss one payment, they've changed some of this stuff. I mean, look, I'll just tell you this. I have, I was in my 30s and had a net worth in the hundreds of dollars at one point. Okay. So this is not like, oh, I always pay my, I had basically a paycheck to paycheck existence until like five years ago, maybe six years ago, something like that. So what I'm saying is I never carried a credit card balance that entire time. Never once did you just pay cash.
- [26:30]
Buck Sexton
Or you had a debit card?
- [26:31]
Clay Travis
I just paid it off every month. Every month I paid off my credit card.
- [26:35]
Buck Sexton
Okay. Yeah. Not that you didn't use credit cards and you say you didn't have a balance. You mean you paid it off every month. You made sure that it was not.
- [26:42]
Clay Travis
I'm saying I never, I never ran up a debt on credit card companies when I had no money and when it would have been a lot of fun to go buy like a new jet ski, I did not do. Now, yeah, I understand. Some people it's groceries, some people it's, I get all this. But, but what I'm pointing out is you, you really don't want to run up credit card debt. And it should be something that people are far more educated on because the rates are super high and it is non dischargeable in bankruptcy, which is the other part of this. So I, I've been on both sides. I also think that some of the credit card stuff that they do, I actually got hit by this once when I was in my 20s. They would change the due dates.
- [27:25]
Buck Sexton
Oh yeah.
- [27:26]
Clay Travis
Kind of arbitrarily. So I'm just going to be clear. The credit card companies have engaged in predatory behavior. That has happened, that has been a real thing in recent years. They have had to be, they have had to been told, stop acting like a loan shark mobster. Okay. Moving the, moving the due date around in the hopes that somebody's auto payment is then late and then they can hit you with the 30% APR. That's a scumbag. Honestly fraudulent move. Like it's fraud to do this and the credit card companies had to get hit, had to get slapped with that. So they're not the good guys. I'm not taking the good guys. But what Ted Cruz says is also true. If people need access to credit, what are you going to do? Like you get into this moral hazard thing. Like what, what do you do if somebody needs to have an emergency thousand dollars that they can go to on their credit card for whenever something comes up? What are you going to do? You got to force people to give them the money. You're going to force people, you're going to force credit cards to try to give a lower rate. By the way, it's just going to be, it's like price controls. They're going to squeeze at one end and then you're going to get squeezing at the other end. This is what ends up happening. The money has to come from somewhere.
- [28:35]
Buck Sexton
I would also point out banks will screw you at every opportunity that they can, too. So a lot of people talk about, you know, unfair fees that are hitting them on credit cards. Banks hit you on unfair fees all the time, too. My number one advice, to the extent that you can, you can do it is and, and I think most, a lot of financial advisers out there would say this. You are way less likely to spend money if you use cash. Because in your brain, this is just the way we're all wired cash. You feel it in a way that you do not when it comes to paying with a credit card. And the reason why the credit card industry works is because people live beyond their means and they take advantage of you. You ever fly on an airplane? You ever notice how often they walk around trying to get you to sign up for credit cards on an airplane? It's because the airlines now make as much money just about off their credit cards as they do actually off of the airline itself. It's one of the craziest things out there. If you're ever on a college campus, the reason why they're trying to give you away a sweatshirt to get you to sign up is because they know what the long term value of this is going to create for them. Because the numbers are the numbers a little bit like a casino. Once they get you signed up, they know that you're going to be worth a decent amount to them going forward. Now I said it. I don't know that Trump has the ability to do it. What I will say is this in conjunction with Trump last week talking about trying to limit the number of homes that people could buy, meaning big companies buying up all the homes. This is Trump pivoting because I think his team has recognized that the 2026 election is going to be decided on affordability and people are angry over how much prices went up during Joe Biden. And so sometimes you put out policies that are populist in nature that don't necessarily have a chance of happening just to show people that you're listening to them and hearing their complaints.
- [30:51]
Clay Travis
That's exactly right. That's what this is. The Trump gambit. This is Trump saying something that's going to do a few things without getting into the details right now, because he's moving the focus and changing the pressure here. So you point out, Clay, people feel like credit card companies, and that's why I said what I said before. But I will tell you guys something. This is actually a personal little personal anecdote. This is true when I was in the CIA, and I think I made $38,000 my first year in the CIA, something like that. And so I had no money, and my parent. I had no money set aside for me or anything like that. Okay? So I just started my job at the CIA. I moved because I couldn't afford the rent increase in the initial apartment, which was the cheapest studio apartment in this massive building. Living in D.C. i moved. And capital one, Clay. I had a zero balance, because I always had a zero balance. Capital One sent via snail mail to my old address, a $5 account closing charge. I had never, you know, was this in the fine print of my contract somewhere? Yeah, whatever. But I shut down the credit card when I moved because I was like, I never used this card. It was an emergency card that my parents set up for me when I was in college that I actually never used. One time it was like, use this if, you know, you break your leg, you're in the er. He was like, that's a break the.
- [32:11]
Buck Sexton
Glass emergency card if you need money. And you.
- [32:14]
Clay Travis
And I realized it had a 500 limit, which isn't a hell of an emergency, let's be honest. So I shut it down. They sent a $5 charge to shut it down. I found. I heard nothing about this. I got a call 18 months later from a collection agency saying I owed them like $300 now, and my credit was wrecked over $5. That the notification they sent was completely unsatisfactory. They could have emailed me. They never emailed me. I mean, there were a whole. Credit card companies act like scumbags sometimes, is my point. That was a total. That was a total scumbag move. This is 20 years ago.
- [32:50]
Buck Sexton
And they will screw you on your credit rating, which is ultimately probably the number one most valuable financial asset that most of us have. And a lot of times you have like parking ticket on there, or you've got a cancellation fee on there that they're tanking you with.
- [33:08]
Clay Travis
This was the only missed payment of any kind like this I have ever had of any kind. I've always been very. Look, I'm going to be honest with You, He's a, he's a competitor on radio. I love the Dave Ramsey approach on this. I'm very, you know, pay cash when you can. You're not carrying a balance. The whole point is the discipline. It's supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be frustrating that you can't buy the Jet Ski right now. Ok, you save, you figure it out. You get there the right way. You don't go buy that, you know, that Firebird or that, I don't know, you know, Ford Mustang that goes vroom, vroom, vroom, super loud and pay like a 20% APR on the money. Like, that's. You can't. These are bad decisions, okay? They're bad decisions. So at some point or at some level, you want people to be disincentivized from doing some of these things. A high APR does that. But I'm just saying, I also understand this. Why is it non dischargeable? But they would say if it wasn't non dischargeable, that would have to then factor into the risk profile and you'd have the same problem of not having the higher rates. This is a complicated issue, but here on Trump. Clay, to your point, because I think it's brilliant. One, sorry, I just got fired up because I still remember opening. I still remember that call from the collection agency and I was just like, you scumbags, you know? Yeah.
- [34:31]
Buck Sexton
I mean, everybody has experienced that where it is completely unfair and they're trying to take advantage of you.
- [34:37]
Clay Travis
And I'm like. And I'm like, my credit's ruined. The credit card company is getting like a 60x return on $5 for nothing. For literally nothing. For shutting down an account is absurd anyway. And yeah, I think I wouldn't have qualified for a Fannie Mae loan based on this one thing at that time, that's how bad it was. Because it had gone on for like a year. And once it goes on, once it goes beyond 90 days, you're screwed. My point is Trump understands this and he knows that he's putting heat on the credit card companies and he knows whether he has the right or rather the legal ability or not, Clay, he has the political ability right now to maybe get some concessions out of them, maybe get them to not do some of the grosser stuff they do, maybe move them in the right direction. So that's the Trump gambit as I see it.
- [35:19]
Buck Sexton
I would also point out we're basically making a policy decision on what we're allowing the credit card companies to set their rates at. We're saying like you couldn't have a 75 interest rates on a credit card.
- [35:35]
Public Ad Read
Right.
- [35:35]
Buck Sexton
We wouldn't allow it. So to some extent it is just a policy choice because I'm sure, look, credit card companies would take a 75 interest rate if they could, right? Yearly APR, they would take it as high as they possibly can. This is to where people say, okay, we're going to balance this. And Trump is saying to his credit, this is a one year thing, which also looks even more political. Right? To be fair. Oh, the one year happens to correspond with the midterm when you'll be on the ballot basically for the last time of your political career. Again, it's political in nature. I think it's acknowledging affordability related issues. I'm not sure how impactful in terms of getting it to actually occur this will be. You guys can weigh in, by the way, 800-282-2882. And if you're trying to have more energy in your life, if you're going to be traveling a lot, if you're coming out of the holidays, you got kids, grandkids, you're trying to work more hours, you're trying to get more packed into a day. That's what chalk is designed to do. It's to help restore testosterone levels. Because once guys hit over 40 years old, our testosterone starts to naturally decline. And that is the overall engine of the male, male body basically is testosterone. How much would you like for your testosterone level to come back up towards the rate when it might have been in your 20s, your 30s, maybe even when you were a teenager? Chalk's male vitality stack will help to make that happen. Chalk spelled Cho Q creates all natural supplements that help American men and women maximize energy every single day. 2026 make it your goal to make yourself more energy efficient in 2026@chalk.com choq.com Unlock the New Year's special this month only when you subscribe with the promo code Clay, you get a free $99 bag of chalk lit powder with your first delivery. That's choq.com my name clay chalk.com.
- [37:42]
Clay Travis
News.
- [37:43]
Buck Sexton
You can count on and some laughs too.
- [37:46]
Clay Travis
Clay Travis at Buck Sexton.
- [37:48]
Buck Sexton
Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:53]
Clay Travis
All right, third hour of clay and Buck kicks off now. Everybody show flying by today. Thanks for being with us. We're talking a lot about the trump economy today. We're getting deep into the credit card discussion there. Send us your thoughts if you have also credit card horror Stories producer Alley was like shocked mine that, that they could be so ruthless. But yes, indeed they, they can be quite, quite aggressive, those credit card companies. And they are enabled by politicians who. Joe Biden is the worst of the worst when it comes to this because what else, who else do you represent? The state of Delaware, really. You're representing credit card companies. That was Joe Biden's primary constituency for his entire 40 something years or whatever it was in the Senate before he became the worst presidents of the 21st century, which isn't really saying much. I think probably the worst president, I'm comfortable saying Biden was the worst president in, well, people might say Jimmy Carter. You go back to the Jimmy Carter thing. I think Biden's worse.
- [38:56]
Buck Sexton
Carter had some worse than Jimmy Carter.
- [38:58]
Clay Travis
I, yeah, I think, I think Carter had some, he had some dignity. Yeah, he had, he was, he was a man who had, you know, he was honorable in his way. He just was wrong about everything. Biden was a scumbag who was also wrong about everything. So I think the scumbaggery takes him into the number one slot, I think. Worst president we've had in a hundred years.
- [39:20]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, I think historically he's going to be up there with James Buchanan who was president when the Civil War was allowed to start, right before Abraham Lincoln, which is a history nerd take there for you.
- [39:33]
Clay Travis
And is it surprising that a guy who they even had to admit essentially had a brain that was semi functional because of dementia or whatever the diagnosis would be, was bad as president?
- [39:43]
Buck Sexton
Of course he was. No, I mean it was, he was.
- [39:45]
Clay Travis
Dumb 30 years ago, so now he's dumb and his brain doesn't work because of old age. That's going to be a bad combo.
- [39:51]
Buck Sexton
Yes, no doubt. By the way, I wanted to mention this because we were talking about, not that we're in any way the greatest, the greatest advocates or the greatest experts when it comes to financial decisions. I wanted to mention something that I didn't even know and I bet a huge percentage of our audience doesn't even know as we set the table, by the way. Latest on Minneapolis, President Trump is speaking right now at the Detroit Economic Club. We'll go live to that in a few minutes and hear what he's saying there. The credit card debt discussion, Buck, I used to wonder. I didn't. They don't teach you anything about mortgages. I, I, we were talking about the lack of financial literacy that comes from schools. And it is incredibly unfortunate that that is the reality that we face here is a crazy Crazy. Take that. I think a lot of people never actually go into. Do you know that when you get a mortgage, 30 year or 15 year mortgage, the first several years of your mortgage payments go look at the amortization table. I don't even think most people even know what an amortization table is. Almost all of your mortgage payments is interest. So if you wonder why is a bank always so happy to have people refi. It can be a very good decision because you can go from a 7% rate down to a 4% rate or whatever. I'm not saying it's not a smart decision. It often is. But they're giving up that rate because you go back to just paying interest to them. Most people never complete a 30 year mortgage. Some 30 year mortgages for the first decade, almost all of it is interest. And then when you look at the amortization table, by the time you get to the end of a 30 year mortgage, you're actually only then starting to pay principal. And I don't think I, I bet a huge majority of this audience pays a mortgage. I bet very few people have ever actually looked at the amortization table to recognize, oh my goodness, it's nearly a decade of a 30 year mortgage where all I'm doing is paying interest. You're not actually getting to the principal at all. Now people say, well, wait a minute, my value. Yeah, hopefully your, your overall value of your home is going up. So you're building equity because that home you bought for 300,000, you know, a decade later, hopefully is worth 400,000 or something. So you're getting equity that way, but you're not actually paying it in a way that gets your equity. And I just don't think most people even understand that. Again, financial literacy, probably something along with historical literacy that so many people are getting preyed upon because they don't have the basic knowledge that is necessary.
- [42:34]
Clay Travis
Well, also, it reminds me of a very viral tweet from a long time ago. I would give credit for it, but I don't remember. But I think it was a comedian who said, I'm so glad I studied parallelograms in high school. This was in April. Obviously it'll come in so handy during parallelogram season, as in tax season, as in, now we're all supposed to become accountants in our own right and know all these things and this incredibly complicated tax code. And remember, you are very the same people that'll tell you, oh, you know, illegals, no one's illegal. You can come into the country and take whatever you want, it doesn't matter, but you better pay your darn taxes. Because if you're part of the productive class, if you're part of the now less than half of American households that even pay into the tax system instead of get benefits from the tax system, then, then you are a cow to be milked and you are to shut up about it and to just take, take that and, and deal with it. So I think that people are rightly very, their interest is, is piqued, if you will, over the credit card rate issue because it goes to a lot of what we see right now, which is companies, corporations have things written in a way that are beneficial to them. And I would say this, Clay, okay? People will point out, they'll say, well, but what about credit? You won't get credit to poor, you know, to people that need it unless you have these rates. Well, then why do we have a cap on it at all?
- [44:01]
Senator Ted Cruz
Right now?
- [44:02]
Clay Travis
We do and people are getting credit cards.
- [44:05]
Buck Sexton
That's. So we're making a policy decision on some level that we're okay at 25%, but we're not okay with 45%? That's right. There is a level that we're willing to accept.
- [44:18]
Clay Travis
And this is where you see it's a bit like the minimum wage discussion too, where people will say, well, we shouldn't have any minimum wage, okay, but we do. And so if we do have one, we're going to argue over what it should be. And if we're going to have a cap, you know, we're. If you're my very simply put, if you're drawing a line, you get to decide. You get to argue for where the line should be drawn. There are some people who will be. There should be no line. Ok, that's a different argument, though, because if there is a line, we're going to argue over where that line is. We're going to debate where that line should be. And I think Trump raises that. And it's a very much, like I said, the Trump gambit, because maybe it's at. Again, I think I saw that 30. I did a quick Grok search. 36% is the like statutory cap right now on credit cards. It certainly is around 30 because I've seen 29 penalty APRs on credit cards that I have. Not that I ever hit those penalties because I refuse to carry a credit card balance. But Clay, if we could get it down to 20%, would. What would that mean? Would that just mean that that credit card stocks take a Bit of a hit and have to, you know, reassess some of their. They're still going to give credit card, you know, they're still making money. I understand that at some level there's charge offs and you're gonna say, but it's non dischargeable in bankruptcy. And you have this huge collections industry that's going to continue to function as it does. So remember, they make money off of transaction fees every time. They're not supposed to do this. Some vendors, every time you go and you swipe that card, they're taking a.
- [45:52]
Buck Sexton
Percentage of the transaction, 2 or 3% typically every single time you swipe a card.
- [45:57]
Clay Travis
And that's an amazing business to be in.
- [45:59]
Buck Sexton
Right.
- [46:00]
Clay Travis
But some places won't take the higher. I think Amex tends to have the higher, the higher swipe fee. And so they'll say, we don't. You've come across this right, Clay? We don't. I've been to restaurants. They'll say, we don't take American Express here. They're not supposed to do that, by the way. Like there, there's actually. And they're not. Well, I should say they're not supposed to charge you more for using a credit card if you have a credit card contract with them. But some places will do that too. They're like, oh, we charge a credit card fee. That's actually a violation of their credit.
- [46:28]
Buck Sexton
Card agreement, by the way. Their power is only growing too, because young people never have cash.
- [46:36]
Clay Travis
Yes.
- [46:36]
Buck Sexton
I mean, and Apple, for instance. I am almost to the top, to the point sometimes where I would rather just go out with my phone and use Apple. Pay what? You know, look, Apple is really good at figuring out how ways to monetize everything that you do and so they could get you to pay from your phone 10 years from now. I'm not sure that there's hardly going to be anybody out there paying with cash. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I love when I get in an Uber or a Waymo or a Lyft, whatever it is, it. Have you been in a cab where you basically start to get out of the cab because you're so used to being charged automatically on your phone. Everybody out there around our age, certainly younger, probably around our age, because we at least used cash at some point in time. I can't count the number of times when I've actually gotten in a cab. And I just start to get out of a cab now because I'm so used to an automatic charge going to my phone. So the powers of these credit card companies is only going to grow in the decades ahead because young people, like my kids never have cash. I give them cash because I'm like, hey, make sure that everybody is taken care of because you need to have cash in an emergency, whatever else. My kids are like, what? Why would I ever need cash? So I think the power of credit card companies is only going to grow.
- [48:05]
Clay Travis
So Trump is taking a stand on that one. Also on the institutions being able to buy up single family homes. You know that that's a complicated argument, too. I know it's become very popular on the right generally to talk about how the reason home prices are so high is blackrock, for example, Massive, massive financial institution that has a very large balance sheet with a lot of homes on it. You know, they just. That's one name that they'll throw out there. But you say, well, hold on a second. First of all, if we all agree there are 20 million illegals in this country, they're living somewhere and you say, oh, well, they're renting. Yeah, that's still housing stock that is off. So start with that. Start with there are millions and millions of people who are being housed currently who are not supposed to be in the country. There is no way that that does not have an effect on supply and demand. It certainly does. New York City hotel rooms never been more expensive than at the end of the Adams administration. And it was because 20 or 30%. It was 20 or 30, I can't remember. But a big portion of hotels were going to house illegals at the taxpayer's expense, correct? Well, if you take 20% of something off the market, guess what it does to what remains. It raises the price, it raises the cost. Supply and demand still a major effect. And on the. On the single family homes situation, you know, on the one hand, you don't want institutions buying up all these homes because you think, okay, well, they just use, you know, the. The funny money balance sheet. They have access to that. It's all just sort of numbers to them on a spreadsheet. They're not actually living in this and they're going to rise the price. On the other hand, though, you want more developers, right? You want there to be buyers ready to go so that there are more and more developers making more and more houses to keep up with population growth. So how much now? And the other side of it is. I don't think they. Someone tell me what the numbers are, guys. I think it depends where in the country. I think there are some states, Clay, where institutions own something like 20% of the single family home st, which seems high. Other states it's a lot lower than that and it's dependent upon the market factors in that state. But this is a complicated discussion, you know, because sometimes things that. It's just like the minimum wage thing. Minimum wage in California is what now $25. Guess what they're doing in all these places. They're automating, they're cutting back hours. All the things that we said would happen happen.
- [50:23]
Buck Sexton
No 100%. And look, I mean, again, these go into complicated aspects. In order to talk about them intelligently, you have to have some measure of schooling on it. And I just think financial literacy, we do a really poor job of explaining to kids how to balance checkbooks, how to understand mortgages, how to understand what credit card interest is, to understand how quickly compound interest works against you if you have those balances running forward. And also in a positive way, how much compounding works in your favor. If you start saving, I mean every 10 years on average, if you buy S&P 500 index funds, you're going to double your money. Well, if you're a kid and you can start saving Money when you're 18, 20 years old, by the time you're 50, you've tr, you know, double, double doubled just in the last 30 years. And then if you live fortunate enough to be 80 or 90, you start compounding that on such an incredible level. I don't think most kids think about it. It's an optimistic way to think just to understand the larger context here. And I wish we did a better job of setting this all up. So we will take some of your calls. 800-282-2882. We'll also go and take a couple of minutes of President Trump. We're scheduled to talk with Jennifer say about the Supreme Court decision that is coming now on trans athletes, in particular on boys trying to pretend to be girls to compete in girl sports. We will discuss that and more. But I want to tell you I got a pick for you on prize picks. Buck, get your pen out. This one's going to win. Pays out at nearly two to one. Divisional round playoffs. Brock Purdy more than one half touchdown. Drake May more than one half touchdown. Josh Allen. More than one half touchdown. And Bo Nix, more than one half touchdown. I'm picking this one super easy. Each of these guys are going to throw at least one touchdown pass. That is one touchdown pass. If I'm right, it pays out at 2 to 1. That's Brock Purdy Drake, May Josh Allen, Bo Nix four quarterbacks playing on Saturday or Sunday as a part of the four divisional round playoff games in the NFL. Get hooked up 2 to 1. Brock Purdy Drake May Josh Allen Bo Nix do it today. Prizepix.com My name Clay. You can play in all 50 states. You can play along with us. $5. When you play five, you get $50 deposited in your account. That is prizepix.com My Name's Clay. Prizepix.com Clay if you want to go in that way, download the app, put in My name clay. You get 50 bucks in all 50 states when you sign up and play $5 at price. Picks Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Mic drops that never sounded so good. Find them on the free iHeartrad radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Clay Travis
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Buck Sexton
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Clay Travis
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- [56:41]
Clay Travis
We are now joined by Jennifer say. She's the founder of XXXY Clothing. And Jennifer, appreciate you making the time for us.
- [56:52]
Jennifer Sey
Thanks for having me guys.
- [56:54]
Clay Travis
So you are building a brand with fantastic apparel, I might add. I wear it frequently where you take this very controversial position that for women's sports to thrive, it should actually be for women and this shouldn't be controversial at all. But it is so crazy that we actually now have a Supreme Court situation playing out. Did you get a chance to hear any of the arguments today or do you just feel like you've heard it all before because this is where you're constantly in the fight, in the fray.
- [57:30]
Jennifer Sey
I did not get a chance to hear any of the arguments. I was on the steps of the Supreme Court for the rally. There was an amazing lineup of speakers. Riley Gaines spoke first. And gosh, there were so many other young female athletes who've been standing up for fairness and frankly, just reality. So I did not get a chance to hear any of the arguments. I read some of the recaps. I spoke maybe about a half an hour ago at the same rally. I've heard all the arguments before. The arguments make no sense. This isn't complicated. There are two sexes. There's one truth. There are men and women. And Title IX was created to recognize the biological differences between men and women and to ensure that girls and women have equal opportunity through sports. It's not complicated. And, you know, now they're arguing that Title IX intent was about gender identity, which it never was. It's all so stupid. I mean, I just can't. It's so dumb. But it's also critically important that we win these cases. And, you know, I would just add one thing. We're sort of fighting for the bare minimum here. All it means if we win these cases is that the 27 states that have laws on the books protecting women's sports can continue to do so. It doesn't solve the problem in the other 23 states.
- [58:47]
Buck Sexton
Let's play. Cut 33. I want you to be able to hear it. Thanks for coming on with it, Jennifer. I know how busy your day is here. Is Katanji Brown Jackson suggesting it's not important to define what a woman is when it comes to men and women's sports? Cut 33.
- [59:04]
Jennifer Sey
You have the overarching classification. You know, everybody has to be play on the team that is the same as their sex at birth. But then you have a gender identity definition that is operating within that. Meaning a distinction. Meaning that for cisgender girls, they can play consistent with their gender identity. For transgender girls, they can't.
- [59:29]
Senator Ted Cruz
So I think that. Okay, as to the part about your.
- [59:32]
Buck Sexton
Ability to pass over from boy to.
- [59:34]
Clay Travis
Girl, yes, you can go from one way, but not the other.
- [59:37]
Senator Ted Cruz
I want to be clear that BPJ.
- [59:38]
Clay Travis
Is not challenging that specific classification. I think that's important to start with. But I think if anything, that's useful evidence as to the lack of a transgender based discrimination.
- [59:48]
Senator Ted Cruz
Because if the legislature were just sort.
- [59:50]
Clay Travis
Of unsettled by the notion of transgender athletes, I think the answer would have been to then bar them from.
- [59:57]
Jennifer Sey
I appreciate that. I guess I was getting at the. What I understood the chief justice to be trying to wear can cut her off here.
- [60:06]
Buck Sexton
Jennifer, you worked and lived in San Francisco for a long time. Did you ever think that the left in this country would descend to the point where arguing that men's and women's sports should be defined by gender is an unacceptable way to characterize sports? I mean, a part of me is just in disbelief that we have a Supreme Court case about this. Are you as blown away by that as I am?
- [60:37]
Clay Travis
I am.
- [60:38]
Jennifer Sey
If I take a step back and say, this is so ridiculous. Obviously there are only two sexes. Sex is not assigned at birth. Gender identity is a fiction. It doesn't matter it has no relevance in defining what women's sports are. So. Yeah, but I'm not blown away when I think about what I do every day and the pushback I get and what Riley's been doing for the last four years and what many far left women, frankly, the Terps, as they are known, have been doing for over a decade. So I mean, it's shocking and not shocking at the same time. And, you know, I would, I would just say, you know, being the only person there at the rally today, you know, sort of representing an organization that's not a nonprofit but a brand. We have, we seeded the culture to these crazy people for the last 20 years, and there's no other reason. They sort of captured the culture with this fiction that there's, you know, 1772 genders and sex isn't real and these boys feelings and how they feel about their quote, unquote, gender matter more than girls rights. I mean, it's an absurdity, but it's infiltrated the culture and it's captured hearts and minds and we've got to wrest it back with the full force that was taken from us. That's the only way, even if we win these cases, we're going to get the other 23 states is if every mom and dad in America and every female athlete that's competing stands up and says, this is so stupid. I'm not doing this. We deserve our own sports and spaces. But here. So, yes, I'm shocked. And I'm not at the same time. I mean, I'm sure you feel the same way, Clay.
- [62:14]
Clay Travis
Yeah. And I gotta say, it's remarkable that, Jennifer, this has gotten to the point, this issue on what I call gender communism, where they have pushed this to the extremes that were warned about years and decades ago, such that, you know, you have had like a biological male competing against women in mixed martial arts, which is just insane and brutal and dangerous, where you have had biological. By the way, I also, I hate the terminology here. I don't like that the Supreme Court had Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson saying CIS girls and trans girls, there's actually no such thing as trans girls. And really, I think that's the big problem here. Start from. Start from premise number one. There are men or boys who think they are women and they are not. And that's the truth. And they can argue about this with us all day, but it won't change the truth.
- [63:08]
Jennifer Sey
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. We've got to take the language back. We've got to Take the culture back. Trans is a fiction. Gender identity is a fiction. These are boys who claim to be girls. I'm not even going to go along with think they are girls. They claim to be girls. They have no place in women's sports. We have all sorts of restrictions in sports. We have weight classes, we have age classes. You know, yes, there are sex classes. If girls have to play against boys, eventually they're going to stop playing. You know, I talked about this today when I spoke on the steps of the Supreme Court. I was a gymnast as a young person, seven time national team member. Came back from all manner of injuries, everything from broken ankles and broken femurs. I came back to win. I never gave up. But if I knew the deck was stacked against me from the beginning, if I knew that I had to compete against boys, I think I would have given up. And we are telling girls every single day that they don't matter enough to fight for that they need to sit down, be quiet and just let that boy who claims to be a girl have what he wants. Why are you being so mean? That's what we're telling girls. That's the message we're sending them. That's what I can't believe. I started gymnastics two years after Title IX passed. I thought we did this. I thought we were done. And yet here we are and we're telling girls they need to be quiet and let boys have what they want. I mean it, it really is misogyny and address. There's no other way to describe it.
- [64:28]
Buck Sexton
Jennifer Buck and I were discussing this. What happens, what happens in your mind if, if this case is decided six, three, which crazily, I think it's likely to be. Do Democrats step off of Crazy Train and say, okay, well the Supreme Court has now decided this. We're not going to continue to fight about it. Or do you think this battle is going to continue into the future as a part of the standard Democrat orthodoxy?
- [65:01]
Jennifer Sey
I think it's going to continue, Clay. I mean, you're a lawyer. I guess this is a culture question though, just as much. I believe the 23 states plus Washington D.C. that currently allow boys to compete in girls sports are going to double down. And they really have convinced themselves that this fiction is a truth and that they are the civil rights warriors. They feel very morally superior in allowing boys to trample girls rights. And I think they're, I think they're going to double down. I don't think this goes away anytime soon. That said, I think this decision, if it goes our way. And I agree with you. I think it'll be 6, 3. Although some of the AGs are claiming 9 0. That's never going to happen. Especially as you play that Tanji Brown Jackson clip for me, I think more people will be comfortable and confident standing up and saying biology is real. You know, we. This is a 9010 issue. Right. Most people agree with us even in California, and yet most people are silent on it because they're afraid. But I think a decision that leads our way is going to give some more people the confidence to stand up and fight. And I think we're going to have to wage the last part of this battle on the cultural line.
- [66:17]
Buck Sexton
I will say the Washington Post, I read some of the clips from their editorial. Was staggering to me that they would acknowledge the cultural shift and represented there. I do think this is important too for people out there that are super fired up and furious about this. Your brand, if you're a woman right now and you are listening to us and you are wearing athletic leisure wear athleisure, your brand is defining itself by saying, hey, women's sports should be played by women. And it's the only athletic brand in America that's even willing to say that. My wife wears this gear all the time. Buck has got some. They have men's gear too. But for the women out there in particular or the men that maybe want to buy gear for their wives, where can they go to register in an economic way their disapproval with the Nikes of the world? Trying to argue, hey, a dude in a sports bra is just as much of a woman as everybody else, right?
- [67:18]
Jennifer Sey
Yeah. All those other brands you're alluding to, whether it's Nike, it's Edith, they're all on the wrong side of this. They make tons of money off of pretending to champion female athletes. And they're selling women down. They're selling us out. So you do need to vote with your dollars. If you go to the truth fits.com that's our site. You can also find us at xx-xy athletics calm. And we have everything you could possibly want. Except shoes. We don't have those yet. Workout gear. We do. Team uniforms. If you reach out to us directly, anything you can want for men and women. And we do. We have to vote with our dollars. And it's the highest quality product. You guys both wear it. Your wives wear competes with the best brands in the world. That's my goal. This is not merch. This is a brand. We need to give people the opportunity to wear Their values. I mean where the truth. It was so heartening to me. I looked out in a crowd on the steps today and so, so many people were wearing this brand and it really is the symbol that you believe in reality, which is cool.
- [68:15]
Clay Travis
Amen. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Keep up the fight and keep selling great, great clothing on xxxy. Appreciate you.
- [68:23]
Jennifer Sey
Thank you. Appreciate you guys.
- [68:25]
Clay Travis
All right, Clay, I got, I got to do a little cleanup here for a second on something because I'm getting all the. All the bankruptcy lawyers in our audience are reaching out to me. I had said that credit card debt is non dischargeable. That is not strictly speaking accurate. But the Bankruptcy abuse prevention and Consumer protection act of 2005 made credit card. It used to just be you could declare bankruptcy, your credit card debt is gone. That's not the case anymore. Now they can. When you go to bankruptcy court, they can divert you from a Chapter 7 to a Chapter 13 filing. And so what this baptized APCPA law B A P CPA law did is luxury goods will not be dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Cash advances in certain circumstances, not dischargeable in a bank. This is all credit card stuff, right? So if you put luxury goods on your credit card within 90 days of filing, then they say no. So they put all these barriers and you can get into mandatory credit counseling for you to be approved for bankruptcy. They don't do this for other things is the point. Ok, so the credit card companies managed to get written into law a whole bunch of additional. It's going to be much harder for you to just walk away from this things. But technically, yes, it is dischargeable if you don't hit any of these thresholds, agree to the credit counseling and go through and increase documentation and court scrutiny.
- [69:57]
Buck Sexton
So it's. I haven't ever done bankruptcy law at all. I don't think I even took the course in. In law school. So that, that's super complicated. But that bankruptcy law is like divorce law.
- [70:10]
Clay Travis
The only people get rich from it are the lawyers.
- [70:12]
Buck Sexton
No, that's certainly true.
- [70:15]
Clay Travis
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Buck Sexton
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Clay Travis
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Senator Ted Cruz
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Clay Travis
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Jennifer Sey
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Clay Travis
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