← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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- [00:00]
iHeart Podcast
This is an iHeart podcast.
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Buck Sexton
Welcome in Friday Edition. Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show. Congratulations. You made it to Friday. You're about to be able to roll into the weekend and we are going to have some fun with all of you. Let me give you a little bit of an idea where we're headed. Marty McCary, who is now the head of the FDA, will be with us at the top of the next hour. He has obviously been doing a ton of things and was right on everything. Covid one of the few doctors who was. And I do think that slid a little bit under the radar given all the other appointments. But the Trump team has been zealous when it comes to promoting people who did not favor lockdowns and all of the COVID related insanity that took over our country about five years ago. So Dr. Marty Makary, head of the FDA will be with us top of the next hour. Top of the third hour. That is the final hour of the week. We will talk with Nicole Parker, former FBI agent. She was listening to the show and she was reacting to a lot of the Epstein revelation. She was working in South Florida when really I think Buck and we'll talk with this some about her, but she was texting us. The initial investigation that took place with Acosta and led to a sweetheart prosecution deal and resolution of the charges in South Florida to me is probably the part of the Epstein story that still deserves to be the most examined. So we will talk with her about that in the third hour. But I wanted to open up and we'll talk about the ICE raid that happened in California and the discovery of underage children that were being used to work there and some of the dark seedy underbelly of the illegal immigrant experience. But I wanted to begin with this because on Sunday will be officially the one year anniversary of the near assassination of Donald Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania. And they came out with news yesterday, I believe that six different Secret Service officers had been disciplined for the failures. I think it's fair to say basically all systems failure that occurred in Butler, Pennsylvania almost one year ago today. It was a Saturday for those of you who remember. And Monday was the first day of the Republican National Convention from Milwaukee. And Trump came within a quarter inch of having his head blown off on live television. And we talked with Selena, Selena Zito. Zito, who's got her book out about Butler, Pennsylvania. I've been reading about that. We talked with her earlier this week. And the extent to which that is an historic event I think is going to continue to echo and reverberate. But Trump is talking about that with special interviews that he is doing, including with his daughter in law, Lara Trump. And we have a cut from that that we would like to play for all of you because it is only by the grace of God. If you think about where we were one year ago today and how different this country would look if that assassination attempt had been successful, here is Trump talking about that with Laura Cutler.
- [03:35]
Donald Trump
Well, it was unforgettable and know exactly what was going on. I got whacked, there's no question about that. And fortunately got down quickly and people were screaming and I got down quickly, fortunately, because I think they shot eight bullets and one got me and one got another one and one got another one and one killed. Corey the firefighter, great guy. You know, we had a tremendous massive crowd. Tens of thousands of people were there and the our sniper within less than 5 seconds was able to get him from a long distance with one shot. If he didn't do that, you would have had an even worse situation.
- [04:14]
Buck Sexton
And I do think Buck, sometimes you get lost, all of us do in the day to day 24 hour news cycle. And the question is what is this going to still matter in a day? Is this going to still matter in two days? A prediction this day, July 13 and what happened on that day and President Trump's response on that day I think won him the election. People forget that Elon Musk voted against Trump in 2016. He voted for Hillary Clinton. He voted for Joe Biden in 2020. It wasn't until July 13, 2024. And I saw one of your tweets about this when Elon Musk got off the bench and suddenly said for the first time I'm with Trump and people out there listening to us right now. Some of you voted Trump in 16, some of you voted Trump in 2020, some of you voted Trump in 24.
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Clay Travis
Almost all of them Clay, almost all of them voted Trump in 16, 20 and 24.
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Buck Sexton
But yes, I'm not sure 89% in the primary in 16 like people came on the Trump train.
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Clay Travis
I'm talking general election.
- [05:20]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, people came on the Trump train at different times. Elon Musk was one of the last joiners of the Trump train. And Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, guys who would otherwise been, I would say opposed to Trump. Quite, quite honestly saw that video and I think it changed something. I really do for American men, I think that when I know a lot of women too. But for American men, I think that was such a Badass moment that it fundamentally altered the trajectory of the nation in a way few events do.
- [05:53]
Clay Travis
Well, think about. If you were to do a historical what if and a list of the biggest historical what ifs. I think it was a long time ago. Winston Churchill did a whole what if. This would be right up your alley, Clay, Historically speaking, what if General Lee had won at Gettysburg, Right. What would America and the world have looked like had the south actually won that war? Now, that's a very big what if insofar as it would have been a whole battle going in a different trajectory. This is a historical what if. What happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, that was truly a matter of, you could just say an inch, one inch different in that projectile and we're living in a different America right now. One inch different in that five, five, six rounds trajectory and you would have had. I can't, I can't recall. Has there ever been and. Sorry, this is just something I haven't thought about. So there might be an obvious answer. A presidential assassination of a. Sorry, a presidential assassination in this country during the campaign. I know there have been assassinations, obviously.
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Buck Sexton
In McKinley, RFK, RFK, RFK, 1968. But to your point, RFK had not yet become the Democrat nominee. It looked like he was going to be the nominee.
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Clay Travis
Well, so he wasn't actually the nominee necessarily.
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Buck Sexton
Trump. Yeah, right. Trump had the nomination locked up and again, remember, he was going to accept it the next week in.
- [07:19]
Clay Travis
Well, this is what I mean, because now you're, now you're talking about a historical situation where God forbid, and as we know, Trump is fine and it was all he was. Okay. It was a terrible day, not just for the country politically and psychologically, but, you know, Corey, Contemporary, pardon me, on last name. I'm not able to say it, but the guy who got killed that day competore. Is that.
- [07:41]
Buck Sexton
Am I saying that? I think that's right.
- [07:42]
Clay Travis
Yeah. But, you know, he lost his life that day to that shooter. And you sit here and you say how different things would have been because you would have had a country that wouldn't have accepted the eventual result based on the fact that our candidate would have been stolen from us by a bullet, you know, and it's even, it's, that would have been even more of a psychic shock than, as you said, rfk. Ok, that's in a primary. But was he going to be the candidate or not? Obviously a terrible situation, a political assassination. And Trump isn't just, wasn't just the candidate. Trump is a mo. Is a political movement unto himself. Who has reshaped the Republican party in the 21st century? The most consequential president probably of our lifetime. You'd certainly have to go back to Reagan or maybe you could say Obama's consequential in destroying the country. But that would have been an enormous change in the world and certainly in the America that we live in today. And I remember we were at the, we were at the rnc. There was a feeling of surrealism with so we're just going to have this RNC now and process the fact that we almost lost our guy, we almost lost our president.
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Buck Sexton
I think they're both short and long term implications that are difficult to even comprehend. And I think it's important to go back and think how fortunate we all are with the way that turned out. A couple of things here. One, Trump had not picked J.D. vance. So it's not only just that he would have been killed. They would have, the RNC chair said they would have canceled the rnc. So it would. No one would have gone to Milwaukee. There would have been a prolonged period of mourning of some sort. There also would have been a lot of glee, sadly on the left that somebody killed Trump.
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Clay Travis
Horrifically. Yes.
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Buck Sexton
Yeah, There, there would have then had to be a new individual selected as the nominee. And remember, there would not have been a VP selection at that point in time. And Honestly, one reason J.D. vance got picked I think was because Trump wanted somebody who was stiff in the spine MAGA in the event that somebody else killed him, which doesn't get talked about very much. Here's the other thing, Buck. We still know nothing about the assassin.
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Clay Travis
I know the shooter.
- [09:53]
Buck Sexton
I know nobody is would be assassin. Nobody would have ever believed. And for the next, for the rest of everyone listening's life and for the next 200 years, much like with JFK's assassination, people would have said this wasn't a lone gunman. There's no way this ended up happening. The fix was in. The government killed Trump. Here's the other question. Does Biden still run? Do they elevate Kamala? If the Republicans are scrambling to try to find a new candidate, who is that candidate? I think it would have been Ron DeSantis. That's my analysis of the tea leaves. But it would have been a huge mess the likes of which the country would never have recovered from, to say nothing. But think about this. What about the president getting his head blown off on live television and the psychic trauma that that creates for hundreds of millions of people seeing that happen?
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Clay Travis
You Couldn't have had a fair election afterwards.
- [10:54]
Buck Sexton
Correct.
- [10:55]
Clay Travis
There's no such thing as a fair election when you have somebody like Trump who is a former president, who is the leader of his party and as I said, is a one man political movement who has reshaped the landscape politically of this country already against some other candidate. Like, there's no, there's no way that you would be able to convince Trump voters in the event that that terrible thing had, had happened, in the event that it had been an assassination, that this election is legit. And then what does that do to the country? Right. How do you go forward when there's a very real sense that a fair election was completely stolen from the country, but through violence, mind you, through, through the worst kind of violence politically. So, you know, this is one thing, and I want to give, I think it was Fisher King, who is a Twitter account. Do you follow Fisher King? I don't even know who this guy is. He's a very, he's got a very interesting account on X. Very, you know, a lot of, you know, I'm not endorsing everything he's written. I'm just saying the guy writes some, some good, some smart stuff. And while people have been very upset recently and I understand and I don't want to get into it right now, and I do agree that there are a lot of problems and unanswered questions and there's whiplash and all this, People have been so upset about Epstein. Kamala could have won that election, everybody, and then we'd be in a country. And he pointed this out on X, which is what's making me think of this. We're just talking about in the context of what if that assassination attempt had been successful. But just even think about how different the country would be if just the election result had gone in a different direction. We're now sitting here, and rightly so, pushing Trump for the best possible decisions and the most transparency and all of that we can get. We could be in a situation where, where all the stuff that we've already seen in six months was going in the other direction, where the border was still wide open, where. I mean, just go down the list.
- [12:51]
Buck Sexton
Well, I mean, that's why I woke up this morning and I saw that interview and I just was thinking how profoundly grateful all of us should be. And I hope you take a moment to just think about it. What would have happened if that bullet had been one quarter inch closer to Trump and had killed him on that day? We're in an incredible place right now, I think as a country doesn't mean everything's perfect, doesn't mean you're going to agree with everything that's being done. There's always room for improvement, all of that. But I think a lot of times in the day to day, we don't pause and think, hey, let's just look back a year, man, what an incredible year that has been and how grateful for those of us who are out there listening, we all should be compared to where we could be.
- [13:37]
Clay Travis
I will just say catastrophism and negativity. It's the always the easy way. It's always the easy way to get attention. Always the easy way to bring people into your sphere of influence. Oh, everything is falling apart. All, everything is terrible. We have challenges. There's some stuff that needs to be fixed. We're focused on that. We, you know, we want accountability, we want more wins. We are not tired of winning. But the mood of the country overall right now, and this is where I think, Clay, we bring it all full circle. The mood of the country one year from where we were possibly on that day in Butler should be one of tremendous thanks to God and tremendous blessings for America that we are receiving. And I know it's imperfect and it always will be. And I understand there's a particular amount of frustration right now, but could have been a lot worse. Everybody. And you know, that's not, you know, that's not some what about ism. It almost was. It was one inch away from being a very different country in a much, much darker place than we ever could have imagined. So we are allowed to feel blessed. And I thought this Fourth of July, I think there was a, There were a lot of people who truly were celebrating on Independence Day weekend because the country's in a good spot right now, overall. It is. I know people can yell at me. It actually is in a good place right now relative to what could have been and relative to what the options were.
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Buck Sexton
We're.
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Clay Travis
We're seeing some really positive developments happen and you should take stock of that as well. Otherwise you just exhaust yourself with the, with the constant sense that nothing changes. It's all unit. It's all unit party. It all falls apart. Everything is screwed. No, that's never, that's never the way forward. So, you know, if there's too much optimism on this show, well, that's the way it's going to be sometimes when it comes to cell phone service, I want you to be optimistic, too. Pure Talk has defined cost effective monthly service for the industry. You can get unlimited talk, text and enough data coverage to keep you online all month for just $25 a month. That's less than half the price of Verizon, AT&T or T Mobile. And the service is the same. So how does PureTalk do it? Well, PureTalk uses the same 5G network on the same 5G towers as one of those three companies. So you get the same quality of service at a fraction of the price. And with Pure Talk, you can keep your phone and your number from your cell phone. Dial pound 250, say Clay and Buck and you'll save an additional 50% off your first month. You can literally switch over to Pure Talk in about 10 minutes. Dial £250, say the keywords Clay and Buck. Switch to Pure Talk Wireless by Americans for Americans.
- [16:14]
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Making America great again isn't just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcast Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:29]
Clay Travis
We are joined by Dr. Marty McCary. He is the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Makary, we appreciate you, sir. We remember you were truth teller in the dark days of COVID madness. And now you are at the FDA and part of the MAHA approach to America. Make America healthy again. I saw your op ed in the Washington Post on getting drugs approved much more quickly and efficiently. That should be. That would be helpful. But let's just start with this. What is, what is the top of your agenda for maha? How are we going to make America healthy again now that that is your portfolio?
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Marty Makary
Well, good to be with you guys. You know, we are changing the entire approach to health care in the United States under Secretary Kennedy. It's not just chemotherapy and insulin and ozempic. We're now having research on root causes at the NIH. We're investing in the food side of the FDA. People forget that the F&FDA stands for food, not federal. And so we are focused on healthy food for kids. We've got tremendous traction with the petroleum based food dye ban. We're going a step further looking at all the chemicals in the food supply that are banned in other countries. We are focused on the drug side and device side. More cures for the American people. We'd love to see a cure for certain kinds of cancer, stage four cancer drugs that melt away cancer. We want to see a cure for type 1 diabetes for Alzheimer's. We want to see meaningful treatments for als and we want to see a Universal flu shot so we don't have to play a guessing game each year. And one of my personal missions is to make sure that our veterans have a rapid decision on treatments for ptsd.
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Buck Sexton
I really appreciate you coming on with us and the fact, Dr. Makary and I always want to go back and re emphasize this, that you were one of the truth tellers during COVID And I'm curious now, as we are working through the MAHA movement and you have RFK Jr. And you have you and Dr. Bhattacharya, and I'm sure there's many, many more people that we don't even know the names of. Do you feel in many ways like all of the slings and arrows that you took and that many of your colleagues took have been vindicated in what you said and feel as if, hey, this is an opportunity to rectify a lot of the scientific wrongs on a big picture. And that came from somebody like Dr. Fauci lecturing everyone and saying, I am the science. Don't challenge science. It has to feel in some way vindicating to be in the position that you are in now.
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Marty Makary
Well, I think this is a time for us to demonstrate humility, the same humility we called for. When you don't know something as a doctor, you just need to say, we don't know, or we think this might be the case. The absolutism that we saw during COVID which was not based on science, but it was under the guise of listen to the experts and don't question us, it did a lot of damage. I mean, ignoring natural immunity, putting masks on toddlers for three years, insisting schools stay shut for a year and a half. Somehow this became partisan, and it's really an ugly chapter. So we are trying to demonstrate transparency and humility throughout our health agencies and as role models. And I think, you know, we're making a lot of progress in that way. We, for example, put out a strong warning on myocarditis with the COVID vaccines. We're not approving Covid vaccines for healthy children without a clinical trial first. We're getting back to gold standard science and we're using common sense.
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Clay Travis
Dr. Makary, what are some of the ways that we can see improvements in the drug? I mean, this is what you wrote about in the Washington Post editorial, right? Getting faster approval. Because one thing I know right now from the look, people think pharma and a lot. And a lot of people on the right in particular get, you know, they bristle a little bit. But pharma does make things like statins, which save a lot of lives. Pharma has incredible drugs that are helping with increase with rare types of cancer. We want there to be breakthroughs. We want there to be cures. What are ways we can get to those cures faster? And is artificial intelligence something that you see, helping just go through all the data and get to cures faster for the diseases that we want to see left in the past?
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Marty Makary
Absolutely. And look, as a doctor at Johns Hopkins, for most of my career, I saw how drugs would cure people, and people got terrible diagnoses, and they would ask, is there anything promising out there? I think we have to ask a big question that really hasn't been asked before, and that is, why does it take over 10 years for a new drug to come to market? We have got to cut the red tape and these unnecessary delays, all of the bureaucratic processes, and just get back to our job of making a prompt decision on safety and efficacy. And, you know, if there's a drug where there's no hope or there's a small population affected, I believe in both the spirit and the letter of right to try that the President has put out there.
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Buck Sexton
How much of what you deal with is fixable from a cultural perspective? And let me build on that a little bit, make the question a little bit maybe more understandable. One of the things we worry about, I think, if you're out there and you're a parent like I am and like Buck is, is so much guidance is constantly shifting. And if Trump is in office right now, we're very thankful that you're the FDA commissioner. But let's say that Kamala Harris, God forbid, had won or. Or that she wins in 2029, and we get a brand new team of leadership at many of these agencies. If the culture underneath is rotten, then it becomes very difficult to fix. Can you fix the culture of the fda? How would you assess based on your time there so far? The culture actually is.
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Marty Makary
I think it is a culture that can be influenced. You know, I spend essentially every day on campus at the fda. It's a beautiful campus. I meet with the reviewers and the scientists and the inspectors and the folks that are working on childhood teen vaping reduction and all of the people. You know, The FDA regulates 20% of the US economy. I'm on the ground, and I think when you're insulated as a leader, you can become a villain. But when you're on the ground and people see that, hey, I'm a cancer surgeon from Johns Hopkins And I've got scientific credentials. I've published over 300 scientific peer review studies. All of a sudden now you're a scientific colleague and you're not some caricature. And so I've been on the ground. The culture at the FDA is strong and getting stronger. The trains are running on time, and so the FDA is going to continue to be strong.
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Clay Travis
What are some of the areas where you're hoping we could see major breakthroughs? I mean, broadly speaking. Right. Not asking about any particular thing that's in trials, but, you know, people are hearing about CRISPR technology. Obviously, I brought up AI, and I do know there are some people, Dr. Makary, in the biotechnology space who think that we could be on the precipice of a golden age of discoveries that will just help. You know, you said that they're changing the approach to health care overall. Right. That's part of the mission. Where are some of the likely discoveries in the near future? I mean, over the next four years, do you think that we could see some pretty amazing things happen that either extend lives, save lives, improve lives, thanks to technology and research that's going on right now?
- [24:53]
Marty Makary
I do. I do. And let me tell you why, Clay, because we're going to try to do everything possible during my time at the FDA to cut the unnecessary delays, the waiting around, the idle time, the time that drug developers and inventors say, well, where they're just doing guesswork because they can't talk to anyone at the FDA to find out what they want in the application. We just announced yesterday that all of our decision letters are going to be public information, so companies are not going to have to do guesswork to figure out how the FDA thinks or what they want in an application. We're increasing communication so a company can call us and ask a question instead of doing guesswork for a year. And we have now a powerful AI tool that we just launched across the fda, all of the centers where reviewers have incredible computational power now to organize applications and to summarize these giant, gnarly hundred thousand page applications. We're getting away from paper. We're doing a lot to cut the waste.
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Buck Sexton
What should people know? Dr. Makary, and he's the head of the FDA, came on the show for years before he was the head of the fda. What is the absolute latest on the COVID shot? I know there's been. I think you came on right after the decision was made not to recommend it necessarily for. For young people, that is very young. Where are we now? I Don't even know what booster people are on. But for people out there who have kids, I know there's a lot of concern about the number of shots that they're getting. A lot of examination of what is necessary, what is not. What would you say parents should know about that?
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Marty Makary
Well, 85% of healthcare workers said no to the last Covid booster last fall. And that should tell you something. You know, maybe there's a high, high risk group where it makes sense. We're going to tell folks to talk to their doctor. The government is not your doctor. But are we going to just blindly rubber stamp Covid boosters for young, healthy teenagers every year in perpetuity, such that a 10 year old girl today is going to get 60 more Covid shots once every year for the rest of her lifetime? No, we're not going to do that without some clinical trial supporting that theory. So we're getting back to gold standard science and I think people appreciate it. We've outlined our, our whole framework for Covid vaccines in the New England Journal of Medicine and we're being very transparent about it. It's not, we're not doing deals with companies. We're being very public and transparent about everything. And I think if we can do this, everything. Well, if we can cut the red tape, be transparent, show humility, we can see cures for type 1 diabetes and neurodegenerative disorders and we can get to a universal flu shot, for example, which is something in the works in early development so we don't have to guess every year what the strain is going to be.
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Buck Sexton
Dr. Makary, we appreciate the time and we appreciate all the work that you're doing. Have a fantastic weekend and we'll have you on again soon. Don't hesitate to reach out anytime we can help get the message out that, that you think's important.
- [28:11]
Marty Makary
Great. Good to be with you guys. Thanks so much.
- [28:13]
Buck Sexton
For sure. He's fantastic. I'm excited that he's in the position that he is in. We come back, we'll take some of your calls. More reaction pouring in after the Axio story relating to the Epstein case. We'll dive into that and more. But I want to tell you, choosing, we're just talking with the head of the fda choosing the healthcare coverage and which plan is right for you and your family. One of the most challenging decisions out there, especially if you're self employed on something as important as your healthcare insurance. You want to feel good about the decision you make. Why settle for a government plan like the Affordable Care act when there's better options out there. That's called Ease for Everyone. It offers affordable health care for as low as 262 bucks a month. You keep your doctor, never pay a deductible. Access over 400 prescription drugs for free. Go online to their website. See which plan is right for you and your family. Ease for Everyone was developed by knowledge and forward thinking people out there in my hometown of Nashville. Visit ease for everyone.com Clay to join today. That's ease for everyone.com Clay stories of.
- [29:21]
Podcast Promo
Freedom, Stories of America. Inspirational stories that unite us all each day. Spend time with Clay and Buck. Find them on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:34]
Buck Sexton
Okay, welcome back in Clay. Travis Buck Sexton SHOW Breaking news from Axios and I'm going to lay this out. Buck and I will tell you what we think and analyze this and I'm going to read from some of this report. And this has to do with the fallout of the Epstein investigation. And the headline is FBI's Dan Bongino clashes with AG Bondi over handling of Epstein files. And I'm going to read the opening paragraph. FBI Director Deputy Director Dan Bongino took a day off from work Friday after clashing at the White House with Attorney General Pam Bondi over the handling of the Epstein files. Four sources familiar with the conflict told Axios Bongino didn't come back to work Friday, leading some insiders to believe he'd called quit. But administration officials say he's still on the job even as the internal tension over the Epstein case continues. At the center of the argument basically is how has the communication of the Epstein investigation and this is now me talking, not the Axio story, how has the communication surrounding the Epstein case investigation been handled internally, both from the Attorney General Pam Bondi in her office and from the FBI. And Buck, you tell me if you would agree and again, I'm trying to lay out the parameters and then we'll get into the analysis. The FBI, I'm speaking generally, the FBI office feels that Attorney General Pam Bondi has been incredibly sloppy in the public commentary that she has made about the investigation surrounding Jeffrey Epstein. They feel that she has over promised and under delivered in terms of what the actual evidence that the FBI has shows. Meanwhile, now it appears to me Attorney General Pam Bondi is pushing back. She is blaming the FBI and Bongino for the release of the video inside of the jail where the suicide of Jeffrey Epstein occurred. There was a one minute lapse in in the Video based on the way it was recorded. And she is blaming. Or the Attorney General's office, again, we're talking broadly, is blaming the FBI for the way that that came out. And they're saying, actually it's your miscommunication which has created this larger issue. So basically, you have two different groups arguing about who's to blame for the fallout surrounding the Epstein investigation. Communication, so far as it's been publicly, is that a good, is that a good analysis from your perspective? You sign off on that.
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Clay Travis
And I know that this is, this is a far more serious issue, but it does, in terms of the personnel on the spot on the hot seat situation, it does remind me a little bit of Trump in the boardroom of the Apprentice, where people are saying, you know, he did this or she did that. And, you know, I, you know what I'm saying? This is the, this is the moment where I think accountability may be coming to a very high level. Trump appointee. And so people are going to lay it out there. And some of that may be a little bit, I wouldn't go so far as to say dishonest, but people are going to certainly give their version of things if they want to stay in the role. So this is, this is turning into a little bit of a bureaucratic knife fight. That's really what's happening here. And it's, it's understandable, I think, that tempers are, are pretty high on this one, considering the amount of public attention on this issue. And look, people have been, I was laughing. I was talking to a friend. This, not laughing, but I mean, I was having kind of a chuckle about it. People have been a little bit mad at me, a little bit mad at you this week, some of them. To which I just keep saying, what am I, what do you want me to do? I'm not in, I'm not in charge. Like, Trump talked to me about running the CIA. He didn't ask me to run it this time. Maybe that was a mistake, buddy. Like, I'm not in charge. I don't accept that. We've gotten all the answers about Epstein. I saw this Dershowitz clip that's floating around where he's saying that he's bound by confidentiality, that he knows there's more stuff. I don't think Professor Dersh is lying. Ok? I think he's. I think he's a guy who knows what he's talking about and is. So, you know, I sit here and I just want to.
- [34:03]
Marty Makary
What.
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Clay Travis
What am I. Yeah, I think that there's problems with how this was handled. And yeah, I think there's more that we could know that we should know. I don't have the files. Like, I can't, you know, neither do you.
- [34:14]
Buck Sexton
Right.
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Clay Travis
So getting mad at us, I don't know why people are getting mad at us. I don't.
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Donald Trump
We're.
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Buck Sexton
What do you want me to do? So here's me reading the tea leaves. Ok. I think that Trump might, I stress, might have a situation where he has to decide who am I going to go with, my FBI or my attorney general. And there may be a they leave or we leave kind of my way or the highway dispute that has accelerated because people are really angry about them taking the blame for something that they feel like they didn't blew up.
- [34:50]
Clay Travis
Let's just say this Dan who we know, Dan Bongino. I've known Dan, I'm trying to even remember. He's one of these guys I've known so long that I can't remember the first time I met him. But it was, yeah. At least over a decade ago. I mean, I've known dan certainly since 2013 or something like that probably. And when he first, when he first filled in for Hannity on radio and I mean, I was filling in for Rush around that time. So that's how we knew each other. He has been calling for accountability on this issue and has put a lot out there and a lot on the line for this. And I know his character. I know his temperament. He's a fighter. And no one's going to push him into a corner and make him do something or say something that's against his ethics or morals on this. Right. So that's. So people say, how do you know Bongino's not flipped or something? That's how I know because I know the God. I know how he operates. I don't know Cash as well. I don't. I've never even spoken to Ag Bondi, to be fair. And we haven't had her on the show. I have no personal knowledge of her whatsoever. So I'm laying this out just to be. This is like full disclosure, right? Yep. You know, there are people whose character I think I know at some level and I've had long talks with Dan in the past about all kinds of things. Right. So I know Dan a bit. I know you do, too. AG Bondi, I don't know at all. And so I have nothing personally for or against her other than, you know, people like her in Florida and she's Trump's Attorney General pick. There have been clear mistakes made here. Okay? Clear mistakes. And I'm just talking on the messaging side. We can go even beyond the messaging side to if you think there's still cover up going on, which is now you get into. Well, ok, let's. Can I play the dersh clip? Let's just play.
- [36:28]
Buck Sexton
Somebody let me. Before we play, let's just say this full disclosure. It would actually benefit us professionally to rip Bongino and say negative things about him because he, he did. He. We are on competing.
- [36:43]
Clay Travis
He has a big show. He's on daytime. He's a big host.
- [36:46]
Buck Sexton
Of course we're not going to play that game because I, the guy is. I'm just being honest with y'.
- [36:52]
Clay Travis
All.
- [36:52]
Buck Sexton
I believe 100% that Dan Bongino is a patriot. He gave up a seat talking daily like we do to go because he wanted to help make America great and he wanted to work for Donald Trump. So I echo one of.
- [37:06]
Clay Travis
One of my, one of my hesitations, even having spoken to the president and the president, Trump spoke about this in front of Clay and the team. So they know when we were talking about maybe me going to work with him at an. And the Dni Tulsi knows that this was all up. Look, if called to serve, the president asked, you go do it. But I will say that I'm not somebody who would want to get into this kind of a bureaucratic knife fight. And I know that this stuff happens and this is just the nature of D.C. unfortunately. And Dan, even having the role he did, making the money he was making, said, I'll do it.
- [37:38]
Buck Sexton
That's right.
- [37:39]
Clay Travis
So I respect that. I respect that.
- [37:41]
Buck Sexton
And, and look, I mean, from our perspective, we can't say we're going to get everything right, but part of what you do in life is you assess the trustworthiness of people. And I would say I would stand behind Dan on, on, on him being an honest person, which is what people got mad about me saying earlier, like, this guy's not going to cover up child porn crimes. He's just not. And so look, there is now a knife fight, to use Buck's term, a bureaucratic knife fight over who's responsible for messaging errors which have created a cluster and I think have deeply frustrated many people inside of the Trump administration, potentially including Trump himself. Like, he's going to Texas right now to go visit the, the flood victims and everything else there.
- [38:30]
Clay Travis
I separate out. I mean, there's a difference between what you say when you are somebody on the outside Working in media about issues like I don't have access, you don't have access. We have not seen classified. We have not, you know, I mean, I haven't in over a decade now. We don't have access to the government's internal. But once you're in that position of power and have the access, you have to be a little more cautious about what you say. I bring this up because what, for example, Dan and Cash were saying about this when they were private citizens and had been for a while at least. Certainly the ca. I mean, Cash had been the government more recently, but Dan had been out for a long time. That's different than ok, now I see this stuff and I have an obligation to speak a certain way about this information, bringing the power of my office to it. AG Bondi, while AG has said some things that while Attorney General that were not as squared away or as tightly.
- [39:29]
Buck Sexton
As I think clearly over promised and under delivered. And all of you out there that heard those quotes and maybe we need to pull them again and play them just to be full context. All of you who heard those quotes are rightly saying, wait a minute, she told us X and now she's telling us Y. Those don't add up. And I think that's a fair analysis of the commentary.
- [39:50]
Clay Travis
And even if you give the most charitable, favorable version of events for the attorney general here that you could. Messaging mistakes are mistakes too. Right. Even, even if, even if she had said things that, you know, she's not, she's not trying to hide the, hide the football, so to speak, or anything. There's still the way the public views it. I do, I think this is important.
- [40:11]
Buck Sexton
That the Dershowitz play it, quote, play it.
- [40:13]
Clay Travis
Let's play this. This is Alan Dershowitz on whether there's more information that has been held back. Play 18.
- [40:19]
Alan Dershowitz
I have seen, remember, I was accused falsely and they have seen, and ultimately I was completely cleared. The woman admitted that she may have mistook me for somebody else who withdrew all of her lawsuits. And so from day one, from the day I was accused, I said I want every document out because I knew every document would prove I was innocent. So let me tell you, I know for a fact documents are being suppressed and they're being suppressed to protect individuals. I know the names of the individuals. I, I know why they're being suppressed. I know who's suppressing them. But I'm bound by confidentiality from a judge and cases and I can't disclose what I know. But I pan to God. I know I know the names of people whose files are being suppressed in order to protect them. And that's wrong.
- [41:00]
Clay Travis
That is a huge, huge mushroom cloud level problem. Everybody, if. And I don't, I don't know what.
- [41:09]
Buck Sexton
We also, I don't know Alan Dershowitz personally, but we've had him on the show a bunch. I can't imagine that he, as an attorney, again, speaking in the larger context now, it is very convenient to say, hey, I know a lot, but I'm bound by confidentiality, so I can't tell you any.
- [41:27]
Clay Travis
He is an attorney, though, right? It's not like he's just, it's not like he's sworn on a Dakota Ring or something.
- [41:32]
Buck Sexton
That's what I'm saying. He does it. Look, if I, I know he's like 80 now, but Alan Dershowitz, for much of the last 20 years, if you had told me, hey, you're going to face serious criminal charges, who do you want to rep? You. I mean, Trump had Dershowitz repping him. I would, I mean, even at 80 or whatever he is.
- [41:49]
Clay Travis
Well, here's, here's what I would say.
- [41:52]
Buck Sexton
Defense attorney.
- [41:53]
Clay Travis
Here's what I would say as we try. Why would he lie? I think motivations are one of the most important ways to evaluate anyone's actions criminally.
- [42:03]
Buck Sexton
Non.
- [42:03]
Clay Travis
Criminally. You know, what's the motivation here? Why would he lie about that right now? Because he just needs more attention. He's already very famous and he's got more money than he's going to spend. Like what? At this stage? So I don't believe he's lying is my point. So then what does that mean? Where does that leave us? I.
- [42:19]
Buck Sexton
It's a mess. And again, I think this is why this mushroom cloud is not going away. And when Alan Dershowitz comes out and says this, when Axios is reporting, hey, the FBI and the Attorney General's offices are not happy with each other and they're having yelling matches over communication. I mean, it's a mess. And ultimately, you know who's going to have to make the decision on how to clean up the mess? President Trump. Because it's going to end up on his desk and he's going to be, to your point, apprentice style, looking at this and saying, okay, which side of the equation of the ledger am I weighing?
- [42:53]
Clay Travis
If you, if you were the president. All right. And I was, well, I guess now we're getting away from the Mafia, consul everything. If you were the president, I was your chief of staff on this one. And you were like, what has to happen? I'd be like, somebody's got to go. I would, I would say somebody's got to go. This is, there needs to be accountability already at this stage just for the bait and switch that has occurred here.
- [43:14]
Buck Sexton
I would also say release every fricking thing. And just if I were, if I were advising Trump politically, not legally, because those are two different things. Release every aspect of evidence that you have, throw it all out there, let everybody look at it and say, this is it. Like, you know, what's the full kimono? Like everything's out there. You get to look at it. You analyze it. Look. Price picks makes watching live sports a lot more fun. If you haven't downloaded the app, do it today and you can have fun. I'm going to be down in Atlanta next weekend going to go to the All Star Game. I'll be doing the show from down in Atlanta at our affiliate there and I can't wait. And prize picks super popular in the state of Georgia, super popular in Texas, California, you name it, all over the country you can sign up. You play $5, you get $50 back by using code clay prizepix.com code clay $50 instantly when you play $5. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks for just playing. Guaranteed price picks run your game must be present in certain states. Visit prizepix.com for restrictions and details. That's prizepix.com my name Clay. You get 50 bucks for going right now. You can have some fun. Home run derby and the All Star game coming up. Pricepix.com code clay geek out with the.
- [44:36]
Podcast Promo
Guys on the Sunday hang with Clay and Buck. Podcast a new episode every Sunday. Find it on the Iheart app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:45]
Buck Sexton
Turned into a dark man. I started so well. I was like hey, it's two year anniversary almost of Trump nearly getting killed. Let's just all be grateful for how amazing we tried it is that we're all here and then mushroom cloud surrounding the FBI, DOJ and the Epstein mess. And are we, do we have like a moment of positivity for people that are watching on video?
- [45:10]
Clay Travis
Yes. Well, if you become a YouTube subscriber and many of you have have signed.
- [45:15]
Buck Sexton
Up, you go to, you go to.
- [45:16]
Clay Travis
YouTube.com lay Anne Buck. You'll see things like here we go. But so you'd have to be a YouTube watcher to see this. Whoops. Make sure I got a good grip.
- [45:25]
Buck Sexton
We're just bringing in a baby so it's better it's been a tough show. There's lots of infighting. There's lots of mess going on. And so Buck was like, oh, that is an amazingly cute little baby here. How old is James now?
- [45:40]
Clay Travis
James. James Speed is three months old today, actually.
- [45:45]
Buck Sexton
So this is the, if you're like, wait a minute, you're just shifting stories. This is what babies are for. They help to make people happier. So we have just brought in a three month old baby. By the way, you will see this if you go subscribe at Clay and Buck, a thousand of you yesterday went and did this after Buck promised that you would get to see his firstborn. Right there is a super cute, awesome little baby boy.
- [46:10]
Clay Travis
Name our relative, the former attorney general. Look at that under Abraham Lincoln. So there you go.
- [46:18]
Buck Sexton
That is awesome. So there you will see this on YouTube if you probably will put it up@clayandbuck.com as we roll into the weekend.
- [46:29]
Clay Travis
I think we just needed, we just needed a moment with a baby positivity.
- [46:33]
Buck Sexton
Bring a baby. Okay, so on Trump, Trump is in Texas dealing with the flood aftermath of the disaster which started off this week maybe because this is a Friday. The fact that everywhere is the report now, we started it off about an hour and a half ago. I would say we were probably ahead of the curve in letting you know that this was potentially going to be an issue. And if you're just getting in your car, you're just starting off your day. You haven't been paying attention to the news reports that Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino has said it's basically either me or Attorney General Pam Bondi over the fallout surrounding the Epstein investigation. There's a belief that on the side of the FBI that Attorney General Pam Bondi has over promised and under delivered. And do we have the audio, did Greg pull the audio for us yet of these clips that have gone mega viral of Pam Bondi saying basically, hey, these files are on my desk. And trying to walk back what she has said. We know that they had the binder surrounding everything that was, that was put out there. Okay, let me just play this. This is a flashback. First cut 33 here. This is February 21, 2025. Pam Bondi says the Epstein client list is sitting on my desk right now. This was on Fox News America's newsroom. John Roberts asking the questions. She's tried to say she didn't mean the actual list. But this is what they talk about when they say overpromise. Under deliver cut 33, DOJ may be.
- [48:18]
Clay Travis
Releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
- [48:22]
iHeart Podcast
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies.
- [48:37]
Clay Travis
So. So have you seen anything that you said? Oh my gosh, not yet.
- [48:42]
Buck Sexton
Okay, good. Follow up to be fair by John Roberts and again, the client list and the Epstein list and all these things. List is a very interesting phrase, right, because what is the list consist of? Is it people who flew on the airplane which can be legal, right. A lot of people can have legally flown on the airplane, which I read did 600 trips a year or something. I mean, this was a jet that he had that flew everywhere. Was it client list, meaning he invested with people, many of whom may have known nothing about his private life. So that's a mess. But it implicated and certainly implied that there was going to be a release and that there would be some consequences for people who might have engaged in crimes alongside of Epstein. That was cut one, that's February 21st. She then said on our friend Sean Hannity show, this was in March, that the Epstein client list was sitting on her desk and that it was a truckload, a truckload of documents. This is cut 34.
- [49:47]
iHeart Podcast
Listen, you're looking at these documents going, these aren't all the Epstein files. You know, they were flight logs, they were names and victims names. And we're going, where's the rest of the stuff? And that's what the FBI had turned over to us. And so a source said, whoa, all this evidence is sitting in the Southern District of New York. So based on that, I gave them the deadline. Friday at 8, a truckload of evidence arrived. It's now in the possession of the FBI. Cash is going to get me and himself really a detailed report as to why all these documents and evidence had been withheld. And you know, we're going to go through it, go through it as fast as we can, but go through it very cautiously to protect all the victims of Epstein. Because there are a lot of victims.
- [50:30]
Buck Sexton
Okay, truckload of documents, evidence sitting on my desk. And then to your point, Buck, suddenly on Sunday they come out and say, hey, yeah, there's no real prosecutable evidence here and let's just move on. And a lot of people have said record scratch moment. What are you talking about? We heard what you said in February. We heard what you said in March. I'm talking about Attorney General Pam Bondi. How in the world can you now tell us? Truckloads of documents, stuff sitting on your desk. Oh, there's nothing here. It's a mess. She over promised and has under delivered and that is a huge issue.
- [51:04]
Clay Travis
Well, we would say under any other circumstance that the public's faith and trust in the Attorney General and more broadly in the Department of Justice is important. It's not just about making the right decision. It's about the perception that the right decisions are being made and that and can be trusted. Right. So there's what you do and there's also how the people feel about what's going on. And you know the fact, all you have to know is the fact that we've got as many people as riled up as they are right now. And I'm not disparaging it because I understand the frustration and I understand the sense of, of hiding the football or the political whiplash because it's there, it's real. I mean, this has happened. This. I could not believe the Sunday memo when I read it. And I mean, you could all see it's public record. My first response was because they said there's no blackmail. I'm like, I fundamentally do not believe that there was no blackmail going on. On. I, I do not believe.
- [51:58]
Buck Sexton
I think that, I think that he blackmailed people. Like, by the way, there's a difference between we don't have the evidence to prove something, which I think this is so important. I think that they walked into a mess here. I think there might have been evidence in the past. You just heard Nicole Parker talking about this. The first prosecution. You and I were talking about this off air. You know, a guy is sleeping with underage kids, right. And you give him 13 months home confinement. The first, I'm talking about the first punishment, which was 2018 or whatever the heck it was. How does that happen? You got people, you know this. But like I, when I practice criminal law, I, I knew a guy in the US Virgin Islands who slept with a girl that pretended she was 18 and she was like 17 or something. He was 22. He went to prison. She lied. She had a fake id. Everybody's like, what? This bartender meets her. Like they sleep together. She lied about who she was. She lied. He went to prison. One, one interaction and you're telling me this guy in Florida is sleeping with lots of girls under the age of 18, under the age of consent?
- [53:13]
Clay Travis
Some of them are at home. Some of them. Hold on. Some of them were Also, like, because I saw the documentary about this and like 13 or 14 as well.
- [53:21]
Buck Sexton
I mean, really, age of consent is 18 in Florida, so, well, under the age of consent. And he got home confinement. That is a record scratch moment. Now that happened all the way back in 18. Right. And it was not. Am I correct in that? It was 2000, maybe it was even earlier than that. I want to make sure I get the year right. Of the initial prosecution. And then he was rearrested after he had already served the home confinement penalty.
- [53:48]
Clay Travis
Well, he was rearrested because the Miami Herald actually did an investigation and it became more public what was going on. And then I think they looked into it and realized not only did he get off with, with a shockingly light approach the first time, he kept doing this stuff.
- [54:06]
Buck Sexton
Yeah, that's right, doing it. Sorry, my apologies question.
- [54:10]
Clay Travis
There was a massive failure of justice of the DOJ system here, by the way.
- [54:14]
Buck Sexton
I want to correct the year. So the second arrest, he was arrested a second time. And I know Nicole ran through this, but in 2019, in 2005, they started the investigation. So I mean, who was President 2000, friggin 5? George W. Bush. Right. I mean, we're talking about something 20 years ago that was initially investigated. He pled guilty. Sorry, I said 2018, 2008 to Florida state court and just got 13 months as a basically home confinement work release. That was going on. I mean, that's nothing. And then he got rearrested in the middle of the MeToo after people went back and looked and said, what in the world? How did this guy get such favorable treatment? So again, the first investigation, the One that happened 20 years ago, how does that happen? How does a guy dead to rights get off on that level of lenient treatment? That's a question that I think goes to the essence now. But the problem, I think, Buck, is by the time these guys get into office, Bondi, Bongino, Cash, I don't think there's very much there. I think they're telling the truth. Because if this were, this is not an argument over, hey, one person wants to arrest eight people and the other person is saying no. It's just an argument about the communication that has made this a bigger mushroom cloud than it would have been if they had come out and just said what I said to you, hey, we don't think there's much here, and I'm sorry, and I don't know what happened, and they screwed this up and we just walked into this mess. I think people would have been More likely to accept it then, wow, here you go.
- [55:54]
Clay Travis
This is cut 35, the CNN data analyst. You know, maybe the left is going to realize this is actually a big deal on the right and they're going to start trying to create more divisions here. That's something to be aware of. But CNN's data guy, looking at what this has done to Google searches this week. This is cut 35. Play it.
- [56:12]
CNN Analyst
What a massive unforced error by the Trump administration. Donald Trump would love this story to go away, but in fact interest is climbing higher and higher. To quote Jackie Wilson, look at this. Google searches for Epstein up 1200% this week versus last. And get this, it is currently the top, the top topic search with Trump on Google alongside his presidency. So Donald Trump normally, you know, leans in, leans into stories in which there's controversy like tariffs for example. This is a story in which he's trying to get away from basically saying why is anyone still interested in this story? But the bottom line is people are very interested in this story to historic degrees.
- [56:59]
Clay Travis
I mean, there you go.
- [57:01]
Buck Sexton
That's, that's, the people are interested in it to historic degrees. And again, I think to your point, they're not going to get people mad at Trump because he is out there and he is arresting people. You know, they're trying to say, oh, ICE is too powerful, we voted for this. I think a lot of people said I voted for Jeffrey Epstein's victims to be prosecuted. And so this mess I think is actually more destructive inside of the Trump.
- [57:30]
Clay Travis
His co conspirators are his co conspirators to be prosecuted, to get justice for the victims.
- [57:35]
Buck Sexton
Yes, but inside of the Trump voting base, this is actually a mess for Trump. ICE raids and tax cuts and things like that by and large are not.
- [57:45]
Clay Travis
If I had told you two months ago that the Trump administration's B2 bomber strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities would be a two day story and the DOJ's handling Epstein files would be a five alarm fire at least online in the news cycle for an entire week. I would have just said that's not possible.
- [58:07]
Buck Sexton
I agree.
- [58:08]
Clay Travis
Here we are here.
- [58:09]
Buck Sexton
I wouldn't have believed it. Here you want a positive buck as I get ready to read this, let me give you a positive. Well, you know what, I'm gonna save the positive.
- [58:16]
Marty Makary
I like.
- [58:16]
Buck Sexton
I want to give you good news going into the weekend. I've got a good news story for everybody as we head into the weekend. But first I want to tell you, look, how much do you want to protect and preserve the memories that you and your family have created over the years. I bet you do a lot. We just had July 4th. How many July 4ths have you had? Great cookouts, great barbecues, great fireworks, celebrations. How many of those are on vhs? How many of those are old school on pictures? How many different places out there are your family memories distributed? And how many of them? Well, frankly, they aren't on digital at all and they aren't easy to share. That's the business question that led to the creation of Legacy Box. Legacy Box can help to preserve your family memories forever on digital. So many families out there, more than a million of them, have already relied on Legacy Box to digitally transfer all the memories you can easily watch, share and be allow you to share them online. Allow them to you to text them to friends and family. Visit legacybox.com so that they are stored in the cloud forever. Visit legacybox.com clay today and unlock 50% off your your order. That's legacybox.com clay one more time. Legacybox.com clay keep up with the biggest.
- [59:37]
Podcast Promo
Political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [59:50]
iHeart Podcast
This is an iHeart podcast.