← The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
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Clay Travis
Welcome everybody to the Wednesday edition of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. The shutdown has come to a shutdown, I guess, or they've unshut it down. So that's good. That's something that we can certainly have a moment of, well, if not satisfaction over. We can definitely look at each other and say what the heck was that about? And we're going to do that. Also got some discussion underway after appearances by the President himself and also his Secretary of homeland security on H1B visas on immigration. Some interesting points coming across, particularly in a interview with Trump and Fox News's Laura Ingraham. We will have those discussions. We've also got hopefully an end to the flight delays or pretty close to an end to the flight delays here. So that's going on. That is certainly a good thing. Secretary of War, not to be confused with Secretary of Defense Hegseth, has some thoughts about the reformation of some of the military that he has put into effect, and we will discuss that too. But Clay, I want to Start with this. Stephen Miller had some thoughts to share on the Democrat shutdown. The White House's own Stephen Miller. This is what he has to say. Play 11.
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Robby Starbuck
It was worse than pointless, it was cruel, it was capricious, it was dangerous, it was radical, it was extreme. The Democrats shut down the government in a failed attempt to extort $1.5 trillion for their pet projects, including, as has long been documented in black and white, for full funding for health care for illegal aliens. For several hundred billions of dollars. They resulted in, as a consequence of their shutdown, massive flight delays for the American people, huge impacts on public safety, federal workers going without pay, people who are living paycheck to paycheck, not being able to make ends meet. This was a Democrat sabotage of the Trump economy.
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Clay Travis
It was Clay, and it was used to try to get maximum turnout result on Election Day. And Democrats did have good results, unfortunately, in those elections, but it was deeply cynical, it was destructive. And I hope that the American people who are open to the evidence of their own eyes and ears, will remember the madness that was inflicted upon us for a month by Democrats pouting and demanding that they get their way. And it was outrageous.
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Buck Sexton
Do you think it's a test potentially for 2026? In other words, are they trying to look at the numbers that came out in Virginia and New Jersey and say, if we're shutting down the government, does the idea that there's chaos work against Trump? Is there a larger game plan here? We know that they gain nothing essentially from this shutdown, but going forward, did they learn something that they want to apply? Is there any resonance here, or is this just going to vanish? They're already moving on. I'm watching the news stories right now. They're not even discussing anything having to do with the shutdown. They've moved on to emails and Epstein and everything else there, which they're trying to turn into a story to. To connect Trump to Epstein. And they've been trying to do this for. For years, candidly. But. So what is the. What is the takeaway? Right? You go into a game, you lose, they lost. Did they test anything? Did they learn anything? It's just so dumb and ineffective that a part of me thinks there has to be a larger strategic imperative in play here than just, we shut down everything for 43 days and now everything is fine.
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Clay Travis
Well, if we look at cut 12 here for a second. Clay, this is Hakeem Jeffries, and he is saying the following about where House Democrats stand On this play.
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Robby Starbuck
12 House Democrats will strongly oppose Any legislation that does not decisively address the Republican health care crisis.
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Downy Unstoppables Advertiser
We want to reopen the government.
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Robby Starbuck
We'll continue to stand by our hardworking federal employees and civil servants, but we have a responsibility to make sure that we extend the Affordable Care act tax credits so that tens of millions of Americans don't experience dramatically increased health care costs. That's going to prevent them from being able to see a doctor when they need one.
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Clay Travis
Let's unpack this a little bit for a second. Clay. The Republican health care crisis. Okay, let's really look at the facts here. The facts are as follows. The Democrats during COVID put in place a multi, multibillion dollar temporary. All agreed that it was temporary at the time. Basically windfall for Obamacare exchanges. It's going to throw billions of dollars into this on a, on a temporary basis. And now we have come to a point where the Democrats under Schumer earlier this year agreed to spending levels without those temporary billions in subsidies. But then they say, you know what, they're not really temporary. We want them forever and we're going to shut down the government. And this is a Republican problem. I mean, that is, I think when people look at what has happened here, there's an understanding that the Democrats are being incredibly dishonest, which is not a surprise to any of us. But they really don't have a leg to stand on other than lying about what's really happened here.
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Buck Sexton
Also, this is reflective of everything that is in any way not permanent. If you end it is described as a cut, right? Like the reality is, this was a temporary program that was for its entire existence predicated on the idea that it would not exist forever as soon as the temporary program runs out. And the reason why it was temporary program buck is they didn't want to have the cost tallied for decades into the future of just how expensive this was going to be as soon as that temporary program runs out. A decision not to continue with the temporary program is seen as a cut. The big flaw here that is I think becoming increasingly clear to so many Americans of all different backgrounds is the health care industry is broken. And the idea that by subsidizing health care insurance, you're going to help with health care costs, I think has been proven to be frankly 100% wrong. And all it is done is inflated the bureaucracy of the health care insurance companies and given them way more money. Obamacare is just a big giveaway to the health care insurance industry. And I, we talked about this some earlier this week and last week, but I do think it's significant that if you polled Americans and you said what companies do you hate the most dealing with in America, don't you think health care insurance would be number one overall right now, Buck, if you asked Americans, hey, what for profit industry out there that you have to deal with on a regular basis do you hate the most? I don't even think there's a close second. I think it's the health care insurance companies. And unlike car insurance, which is frustrating, but as these self driving cars come on the market, I actually think the overall cost of car insurance is going to plummet. I mean, you can argue as we move into more and more of a self driving car industry and future that that's one where you look at it and you say, oh, the amount of money that we're having to spend on cars could end up going down in the future. And I'm optimistic that that could occur. The problem with health care insurance is we're getting more and more older people in the country and the amount of health care that you need skyrockets as you age. And so I don't see any way that this is going to get better. And really the only way health care works is the only way healthcare insurance works is if there are tons of young people who basically never need insurance that are paying for older people who do need insurance. I was meeting with a healthcare industry guy recently, Buck, and he said, hey, we got killed in our company. He said, how do you think we got killed in the company recently? And I said, I don't know. He said we had people going out and signing up young people. What is the one thing that could crush you if you're a health insurance company and you're signing up young people, pregnant women, because the cost of having a baby is high. And so somehow the cost of these insurance companies, pregnant women, all got signed up. A cost of having a baby is expensive. And that's basically for young people. For people under the age of 35, the only way, under 40, the only way that these health insurance companies really get hit is when they have expensive, when people have kids. Otherwise most people putting money in never use it. And elderly people are able to benefit from that. The problem is now we have way too few young people and a huge exit, huge influx of older people. It's gonna break.
- [11:24]
Clay Travis
Well, this is where you see the problem lies. It's all about hiding what's really going on from people so that they can't undo, understand where the money is being spent and what their role in this whole system is because if you buy insurance as an individual, something like 70%, they estimate clay of the people who buy insurance on the individual marketplace. Right. So not company subsidized, which is a whole other component of this. 70% of them said that if without the billions in subsidies from the government, the enhanced subsidies, they would have a huge increase in their premiums that they would not be able to afford. Why is that? Right. Why are the individual marketplaces so very expensive? Why is it that people keep seeing their premiums going up year after year? It's not insurance. If you are young and healthy, you are forced into this system. And when I say young, I mean relatively young. 30s, 40s, 50s, you are forced into this system to subsidize the care for the old and the sick. Now, if that's what we have to do as a society, that's one thing, but we at least need to have an honest conversation about that. You are not getting a good deal if you are in your 30s, 40s, and 50s and you are getting anything that is a health insurance plan on the individual market, Anything that is Obamacare, approved Medicaid, any of that stuff.
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Buck Sexton
Well, and I may be. I think there's a lot of people around my age that kind of are in this world. I care less about the individual expense and more about just having catastrophic protection. It's highly unlikely that you're going to have a catastrophic health issue. We hope in the same way that I bet you, Buck, have taken out life insurance now that you have a baby. A lot of dads and moms out there, when they have kids, they go back and they look at their overall expenses and they say, okay, what if the worst case scenario happens? To me, it's highly unlikely. The insurance companies look at you, if you get a decent amount of health insurance, they come out and take as much of your blood as they can. They run your, you know, all your vitals to try and make sure that there's not something out there that is an issue. Most people only are concerned about catastrophic issues, particularly when you're in your 40s, your 30s, your 20s, and that isn't actually that expensive in the grand scheme of things. But the problem is, again, that's just a math equation. We don't have enough young people to deal with what people in their 60s and 70s are going to be costing for health care. Here's another part of this, Buck, that very few people talk about. Probably 50% of the medical coverage that our average people get in the United States is Completely unnecessary because doctors are afraid of being sued. And so they don't think that you need that mri, they don't think that you need that CAT scan, but they, they go ahead and check the box because if they get sued and something really wrong, something is really wrong with you, then they want to be able to say, oh, we gave as much standard of care as we could, not to mention the hospital makes money on it. So I'm not even kidding. I think we could eliminate 50% of all health care. One positive. Buck. I do think some of these GLP, which could drive down obesity, if they are widely distributed, could, could start to decline because obesity is probably the leading cause of necessary.
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Clay Travis
I'll tell you something right now, and I'm not a doctor, but I am allowed to have opinions on national policy when it comes to health. If we took some of the tens of billions of dollars wasted on nonsense in the health care apparatus and directly subsidized GLP medication because right now I look, these companies, they're going to make their money. They have a right to make their money because they did the research, all that stuff, right? We're capitalists, ok? But if you want to talk about government subsidies subsidizing, and this is, by the way, straight from Elon Musk, he said the same thing, widely subsidizing GLP1 access to medication for people, not making it free, but making, you know, subsidized because it's crazy expensive now. I don't know.
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Buck Sexton
Yeah, that's right.
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Clay Travis
It's thousands of dollars a month or something. If you can't get your insurance to cover it and insurance doesn't want to cover it because it's so expensive, the health care costs that this would actually bring down clay for individuals and the whole nation. It would, it would pay for itself many, many times over. That's just, that's just the reality of the way that obesity is $200 billion a year of health care spending.
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Buck Sexton
I'm cautiously optimistic that that is if you want to have a positive on health care. I am cautiously optimistic. These are for, by the way, the we. What are the companies?
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Clay Travis
Manjaro, Wegovy, Ozempic is the super famous one. This is Eli L. Lilly. This is Pfizer. This is the big drug giants. These drugs are changing people's lives all over the place.
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Buck Sexton
And so if we can drag down obesity, we drive down the need for as much medical coverage. To your point, Buck, we could potentially save hundreds of billions of dollars in health care. It's a positive out there. If you need a.
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Clay Travis
We have AI. Sorry, I know we got. We got to jump into a break here.
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Buck Sexton
Clip.
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Clay Travis
We have AI doing all these things for us now. It's amazing. I get there are cheeseburgers, maybe this Ozempic and cheeseburgers. Go ahead. But there are cheeseburgers being delivered to me by robot. Can AI handle this so that I don't have to spend 30 minutes filling out paperwork every time I go to every doctor, Even when I fill out stuff online before I go? Like, can't we get to the point where the bureaucracy of medicine at least is less of a total disaster?
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Buck Sexton
Doctors want that too, because the amount of time that they have to spend on paperwork, it's absurd, infuriating.
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Clay Travis
By the way, it's all the insurance companies do this to make it as a whole other conversation. They actually do this on purpose.
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Buck Sexton
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- [21:08]
Clay Travis
Thanks for being here, everybody. Appreciate all of you. So our friend Laura Ingram over at Fox News had a sit down with President Trump and they got into a whole range of issues. Very good interview and there's a couple of moments, a couple of takeaways from it that I think it's important for us to have a little discussion about. One of them is this it gets to H1B visas and the government, the administration approach to the H1B visas, which this was a discussion that right around a year ago, actually there was a pretty intense online exchange about this involving Elon Musk, who went completely scorched earth in favor of H1BS until people provided him with the data and information to show that the H1B visa program is actually really abused. And it can be very exploitative and it's unfair to the American people. It needs dramatic reform. And Vivek Ramaswamy also weighed in on this one and it was a moment Where MAGA was saying, hold on a second, I don't think that we have to celebrate other cultures over American culture when it comes to excellence. I think America is the culture of global excellence. It was not a good moment for Mr. Vivek and there was a lot of back and forth and it was all over this H1B situation. Now Laura Ingraham pressed Trump on this and here is how the Exchange went. Play cut one.
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Buck Sexton
Does that mean the H1B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration? Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the.
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Clay Travis
Country with, with tens of thousands or.
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Laura Ingraham
Hundreds of thousands of foreign workers also do have of thousands to bring in talent when we have plenty of talented people. No you don't. No you don't.
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Buck Sexton
We don't have talented people.
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Laura Ingraham
No you don't have, you don't have certain talents and you have to, people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment, like an unemployment line and say I'm going to put you into a factory, we're going to make missiles or I'm going to put.
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Buck Sexton
How do we ever do it before? Well, when you and I were give.
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Laura Ingraham
You an example in Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants out. They had people from, from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's not an easy thing and very dangerous. A lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people, early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it.
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Stephen Yates
Well.
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Laura Ingraham
They wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that, Laura. I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say a country's coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work.
- [24:08]
Clay Travis
This is a very important discussion. But Clay, we're sorry guys. We, we got to put a pin in it because we were going to have Robby Starbuck on. We had a little tech issue but we can get him on now. The phone line situation got squared away. So Robby Starbuck joins us now. He's conservative activist and many of you are familiar with his work. Robby, thanks for being here. Tell us your story, man, because you wanted to come on and I think people need to know about what's been going on.
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Robby Starbuck
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, it's Been wild. What has happened? So essentially two years ago I found out that Google's AI, which then was called Bard, was saying all kinds of crazy stuff about me that just wasn't true. From saying that I was a supporter of the KKK to even making arguments for the death penalty because I guess some of my takes offend people on the left. But then it got much worse when they introduced Gemini and Gemma. Gemini and Gemma went so far as to make accusations that I was accused of sexual assault, of raping people, including.
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Stephen Yates
People who are.
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Robby Starbuck
PG as possible for the audience in case there's kids in the car. But you know, it can't be stressed enough how hard we tried to get Google to stop this. I notified them starting two years ago that this was going on and my lawyers at Dylan Law firm have been repeatedly letting them know and sending cease and desist letters throughout this year. And Google just continued to allow this stuff to go on. The lies got so intense, so elaborate that you almost can't believe it. And it came from prompts as simple as tell me about Robbie Starbuck or somebody looking me up, right? So this wasn't somebody saying, hey, invent the story. It was as simple as tell me about this guy, right? And it got so detailed that he invented fake court records, fake police records, fake victims, fake therapy records. And it would get so detailed that if you said, hey, what are your sour for this? It would invent fake court records and also fake media articles, okay? So it would say fox news.com Robbie Starbucks, sexual assault allegations or something along those lines. And it did that with all of the major media outlets essentially, and some of the biggest figures in media. It even invented fake statements from J.D. vance and President Trump about the situation. So this is obviously incredibly dangerous. And you have to wonder why this is happening, right? Because something is feeding this information to the AI and that we intend to find out in discovery. But if you think about like the, the long side of this, right, like look, 10 years down the line, control of our country is decided by a very small number of swing seats. And it's very easy to envision a future where this type of, you know, malicious AI is deployed against every right wing candidate in those swing seats. And you're able to shift 5 to 6% of the boat based on telling lies about the candidates to voters who reach out saying, hey, tell me there's a difference between these two candidates.
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Buck Sexton
This is a hugely important story and I appreciate you coming on. We're talking to Robby Starbuck. You just heard him Lay out what happened with Google AI. There's a lawsuit pending. But if they could do this to you, and this is where I think this becomes so important, and you just hit on it. I mean, they could do it to, yes, Republican Senate candidates, Republican presidential candidates, Republican congressional candidates. But I think a lot of people out there also know that, arguably, at least, those guys can punch back. Why couldn't they do this to anyone in America where Google. What happens when your name is Googled is probably the number one most important thing on the Internet. I would say for most people in most professions, this seems hugely important, not just for what happened to you, but for the message that it's sending. It could happen to anyone. What are you trying to do to remedy it, Clay?
- [27:50]
Robby Starbuck
I was hoping you'd bring that up.
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Stephen Yates
Because you're exactly right.
- [27:53]
Robby Starbuck
The biggest problem is not that even this is happening to me. Obviously, I'm concerned to damage my reputation and all those things, but I'm thinking about my kids. Like, this can happen to your son, your daughter, your wife, your husband, and it could eliminate your ability to get jobs. I mean, I want people to think about this, how far AI is reaching into our lives. It's already being used in reputation scoring for insurance, which, by the way, crazy story. I was actually denied insurance by, I think it was five insurers this last year. I've never been denied in my life. I'm an autopay person. Never been in a car accident. Like, there is no reason I should be denied for insurance. It took until the sixth insurer for us to even get an offer from a major insurance company. Every other one said risky, wouldn't tell us why. And we're going to have to figure out through discovery if it was because it was pulling that information from AI but you can get debanked. You can have what a job interviewers often do. They Google the people who are applying for jobs, right? And so you get Googled on Gemini and. And they tell this potential job that you're actually accused of some heinous crime, you know, and this could be as simple as getting back at you for your politics that Google doesn't share, Right? So it's very easy to see where this can get very dangerous very fast. And so I think, you know, part of the remedy here isn't just making me whole and, you know, fixing the situation. It's fixing the problem for good and setting a standard and setting precedent that AI cannot harm humans. That needs to be the first principle of AI because if you allow it on this level where it's defamatory, right? You're baking that in at the root level of a tree that is either going to bear fruit that helps humanity grow into abundance, or you're going to grow poison fruit and it's going to be to the detriment of humanity. What you bake in that root is very important. So we're teaching AI now what is going to later be very important. It's deployment across all platforms in law enforcement, medicine, everything else. And so that's why I feel like this is a critically important fight. I'm thinking 10 years out, 15 years out, how deeply this is going to affect all of us and our kids.
- [29:49]
Clay Travis
What was it like when you were trying to get answers in the early stage and then throughout from a company like Google that is so vastly powerful, influential, connected and resourced? Yet I can only imagine, Robby, like if this happened to me, I wouldn't even know who do you call or email? Who can you get to actually sit down or speak to you as a human to try to address this? Feels like you were probably in a very Kafka esque, like where do I go for justice situation.
- [30:21]
Robby Starbuck
Yeah, it was very confusing, honestly, even with me where I'm able to get in front of the media, I'm able to, you know, pay lawyers to be able to do this stuff. But back then, initially I raised the red flag about this publicly, just adding the and direct messaging people at Google like, hey, can you get this fixed? And eventually a Google employee reached out to me and this lady seemed like she wanted to help. So I laid out the whole story and sent screenshots from the people who had sent them to me, me and that we were able to recreate these. She's okay, I want to help. And I check in over time and it was about three months later she lets me know, I'm so sorry I wasn't able to fix this. And this is in the lawsuit, we put this like we put all the receipts, okay. She said, I'm so sorry I wasn't able to help. I am resigning today. And she resigned. And then things got much worse with Gemma and Gemini. And here's the other thing that's really scary, right, is that you'd think a company like this could fix all this, right? Well, it took until last week to finally get them to fix some of this stuff in the actual app and the google.com website. But here's what's crazy. There are over 150 million wild downloads of Gemma. Gemma is also used by developers beyond just being a chatbot to help develop apps that power the future. Right. And then Gemini, same thing. Gemini has a bunch of uncountable digital downloads. We don't even know what that number is. In many of these, they can never be connected to the Internet or won't be connected to the Internet and cannot be fixed remotely by Google. So these things, which will be used in many different contexts over God knows how long, can never be changed. And that's pretty wild. And I think that's something that also has to change in this process.
- [31:59]
Buck Sexton
You're in the process of going through discovery and finding all this stuff out. Buck, you mentioned, how do you even get a person to be able to address. We found out when we sold Outkick to Fox. Fox went through the deep dive and they said, hey, you're not indexed on Google. And I knew that was true because we would break news on Outkick and then we would never show up at the top of Google search results. And we had gone through this four or five different times with them, and they had said, everything's fine. Somebody had just taken us out of the Google search results. Robby, that had to be an individual, right? Somebody just decided they don't like me. They're one of thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of Google employees. They hide your site over in the refuse so that you. You can't be found. Do you feel like. And again, I know the discovery is underway. Do you feel like ultimately this is malice driven by an individual or individuals inside of the company to have set up or. And I know I'm asking you to speculate a little bit. Do you think this is just AI run amok and for some reason you happen to get dragged through the cycle like this?
- [33:12]
Robby Starbuck
So there's two different things here. One is, you know, does it meet the legal standard of malice no matter what? Absolutely. It doesn't matter what the intent was. The fact was they were notified so many times over the course of two years to fix this, and they didn't fix it. And they continually, repeatedly told the same lies, inventing the same situations with similar victims and evidence and all these fake news articles and everything, that's gross negligence. That equals malice, right? But then there's my personal view, right? My personal view is one where I can't. I can't get myself to a place where I think this is just a. I run amok, right? Because Google's response publicly has been to essentially excuse this as hallucinations, is what they say. Well, you deep Dive into hallucinations. And I've talked to AI experts. They're typically kind of disjointed and kind of like weird, right? They're pulling things from different places and kind of mixing them all together. There's too many similar threads and too many commonalities in what it continually repeated about me for it to fit a hallucination pattern by my estimation, from talking to these experts. And I think lawyers agree with this. And so when you look at it from that context, it's very hard for me to get anywhere except for thinking this was deliberately poisoned. So that's. That's how I view it. Right? Is it seems deliberate when you get as detailed as these things did and you repeatedly refuse to own up to the fact that it's a lie. And this is what's crazy. Like you can literally answer back to this AI. And we had people saying things like, hey, these news stories are totally false. Nothing like this ever happened. And it would double and triple down that it did happen. And it went so far on one occasion to actually create a fake article in a real journalist's name when somebody pressed the AI and saying the link didn't work to the story it was sending them. So it literally invented a fake news story. I want people to think about this, right? We're at this precipice where we have all these image generators and voice generators and video generators, but they're not all quite interconnected to the chatbots as well as they will be a year or two from now, maybe even less. Had this continued to happen for another year or two. It would have literally been inventing fake videos and audio of me doing these crimes. I want people to think about that because if you've seen the AI outputs that we're seeing in video and audio, there's currently a top charting music artist, I think it's called Breaking Rust. That is AI, right? Like. And you can't distinguish it from a human being. It sounds like a real human musician. That is so incredibly dangerous. And again, I imagine our sons and our daughters facing accusations with fake AI videos and audio. And it's very clear when you think about that, that we need guardrails.
- [35:48]
Buck Sexton
No doubt. Robby, this is fantastic. If people want to know more about this story, where would you tell them to go?
- [35:55]
Robby Starbuck
Follow me on social media. YouTube X @Robbie Starbuck, Robby Starbuck, or go to Robbie Starbuck.com if you want to read the actual lawsuit. We've put it up there in case anybody wants to read the full thing. Even lawyers who don't like me, people who hate me. Dang. They have absolutely an incredible case. So I think it's a seminal case in the fight for fairness and getting rid of bias and AI.
- [36:16]
Buck Sexton
Appreciate the time. It is an important story. Keep us updated. We want to continue to share this story as we move along.
- [36:23]
Robby Starbuck
Thank you gentlemen, for shining a light on it.
- [36:25]
Buck Sexton
That's Robbie Starbuck. All right, Buck. I'm going to try to make sure that we win. We've had a couple of different losing weeks here in a row on Prize Picks. So tomorrow, Thursday Night Football returns. This is simple. There's only three people involved. Drake may more than 1 1/2 touchdown passes, Bo Nix more than 1/2 touchdown pass and Sam Darnold more than 1 1/2 Touchdown passes. If all three of those hit 3 to 1, $5 turns into 15, 20 turns into 60, 100 turns into 300. You can play along with us@prizepix.com Code Clay. You can play in California, Texas, Georgia if you're feeling left out. That is prizepix.com Code Clay. Drake may more than one and a half touchdown passes, Sam Darnold more than one and a half, and then Bo Nicks more than one half. If all three of those quarterbacks hit three to one, that's prizepix.com Code clay for $50 in your account when you play, $5.00 prizepix.com Code Clayton. You know them as conservative radio hosts. Now just get to know them as guys on the Sunday Hang podcast with Clay and Buck. Find it in their podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:51]
Clay Travis
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We're joined by my longtime friend and friend of the show here and my my guide for all things Taiwan recently, Stephen Yates. He is a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. He's a former senior administration official in national security under the Bush administration. And as I said before, he's a fluent Mandarin speaker. And I saw him in action in Taiwan. It was very impressive. Stephen, I know you're still recovering from some crazy jet lag. Thanks for making the time for us, Buck.
- [38:22]
Stephen Yates
It's wonderful to join and thanks very much for the kind intro.
- [38:26]
Clay Travis
Please give us a sense as to you just went. I mean, it was quite a world tour. You were traveling with the press pool of the Secretary of War. Now I have to keep reminding myself secretary of War Hegseth. But President Trump was over there in Asia. Where did you go? What were the meetings? What were the big policy Takeaways and your most important observations.
- [38:47]
Stephen Yates
Well, thank you, Buck. There's a few things that really stand out. I mean, really, the first thing was we did go to Japan, Malaysia for the Southeast Asian ASEAN Defense Ministerial meetings. That allowed for bilateral meetings with the nine countries of asean, but also with India, Australia, Japan and Korea there. And then we went up from Malaysia through Vietnam to Korea and then from Korea all the way home. I'll just remind the audience this is on the doomsday plane from which nuclear retaliation can be called after the apocalypse begins. Kind of a fun ride, but that plane, I think is older than the secretary, and I pray that the secretary gets new planes soon. Just as an aside, but that 14 hour flight home to Andrews was quite an adventure. Going through the aerial refueling, some cool helicopter rides. Very fun stuff in some sense, but serious policy, I think first, number one, it put the lie to the notion that somehow the Trump administration is isolationist. This is opposite of isolationism. The president had a very widespread tour through the Indo Pacific region, major meetings and decisions made in that region. The first stop with Secretary Hegseth was Japan. The new prime Minister there is a gangbusters. Iron lady of East Asia loves America, loves Japan, is good for the alliance. She paid deep respect for our troops. The president, the prime minister were there. Secretary Hegseth were there. I think the troops loved it. I thought it was a really wonderful message to the alliances. So first, the Trump administration is engaging the world. It's just engaging differently. And the establishment doesn't know what to do about that. But it's not isolationism. And alliances are largely happy and improving. A lot of the defense spending increases are happening. They need to move further, faster. But it's directionally correct. And I think that was attested to when the defense minister from the Philippines just spoke so positively and effusively about America's engagement with them as they're challenged by the Communist Chinese. And just the final point, Buck, I'd say just watching Secretary Pete Hexass in action. You and I have known him from our younger days and commentary. It was great to see him in action in this regard. I mean, he spoke clearly, decisively and without wavering about the China challenge to the United States, but also the region. And he did it with the Chinese in the room. And the message was the same whether it was public, private, no matter who was there. And I just thought that kind of consistency, clarity, conviction to purpose was good to see. And I would expect no less out of Pete.
- [41:41]
Buck Sexton
Steve. Buck just came back from Taiwan. He's talked a lot about it. But if you were telling Steve was.
- [41:46]
Clay Travis
My, my Sherpa in Taiwan, so he was, he was there every step of the way. He was translating in the meetings.
- [41:52]
Buck Sexton
If you were telling us out there, hey, this is what I would be concerned about. This is what you should be concerned about. I'm presuming Taiwan and what happens with China would probably be number one on your list. Is that true? And how much higher is that on your list of concern than other things? How, how should we calibrate concerns in Trump 2.0 in that respect?
- [42:22]
Stephen Yates
Okay, I think there's a couple of things first, and Buck has had to listen to me say this over and over, but basically what happens in Taiwan is not a Taiwan only situation. Japan has a fundamental national interest in the status quo being maintained and that Taiwan continue to be a free and democratic territory and is not able to dominate those air and sea lanes around it through which 50% of the world's container traffic go. So if you imagine an economy that is rocked by 50% of those containers carrying all your cheap goods to your doorstep by way of Amazon or elsewhere going kaput for a time, then this matters. And it matters for more than just the transactional notion of are we buying things? But Taiwan is also part of the value chain. They have major companies that are helping us have a shot at winning the AI race and finding ways to adapt their military capabilities. They also buy assistance from us, not ask for assistance be given to them from us. And so in many ways, they are a value add. But the most important thing is to understand that it's that first island chain that goes from Japan, through Taiwan, through the Philippines, down into Southeast Asia, that common cause. And if they're all doing more to protect themselves, they're all buying more from America to defend themselves. And we're keeping our partnerships vital with them, economically and otherwise. That's a pretty profound deterrent, and it makes the chances of war go way down.
- [43:54]
Clay Travis
Stephen Yates with us now, a senior fellow at the Heritage foundation and just got back from travel with the Secretary of War all over Asia and on the China front. Stephen, there was actually a, a pretty big announcement today. This came from FBI Director Cash Patel speaking about China and their role in the fentanyl crisis. Let's play this clip. And then, Stephen, I wanted to have you react to it. Play the audio.
- [44:20]
FBI Director Cash Patel
While we, the interagency, the Department of Justice, have been fighting hard to seize and stop drug traffickers, we must attack fentanyl precursors, the ingredients necessary to make this lethal drug. That was the sole purpose of my treatment trip to China to eliminate these precursors. And if successful, we would suffocate the drug trafficking organization's ability to manufacture fentanyl in places like Mexico. This was the first time an FBI director has been to China in over a decade and received the audience with his counterpart to address this matter directly. And again, thanks to President Trump's direct engagement, President Xi, the government of China committed fully to my engagement there on the ground in Beijing at a level never, never seen before. While at Ministry of Public Security headquarters, I met with my counterpart at mps, where the Chinese government agreed on a plan to stop fentanyl precursors. What does that mean? The People's Republic of China has fully designated and listed all 13 precursors utilized to make fentanyl effective immediately. Essentially, President Trump has shut off the pipeline that creates fentanyl that kills. Kills tens of thousands of Americans.
- [45:29]
Clay Travis
Stephen, wanted you to react to this. Big news today from the White House, from the FBI Director.
- [45:34]
Stephen Yates
Well, first and foremost, I just, I'm very, very grateful for President Trump and the team making this a very real priority. As you know, Buck, my daughter was killed by fentanyl poisoning two years ago. And so I'm not unbiased in trying to assess who's to blame and what needs to be done about this. So I think what Cash is saying is incredibly important. I would also just add that this is 10 years too late by China. I have no forgiveness for that regime in the slow and methodical murder of hundreds of thousands of Americans. And I don't think we should have to negotiate people to stop murdering our 18 to 35 year old demographic in America. That said, we live in a world of bad people. And the president, his team are serious about trying to enforce this. I would like to see them go further and designate these illicit precursors as a weapon of mass destruction. So just like the cartels are terrorist organizations, if you engage in this business, you're at war. And I would be happy to see you get lit up the way those boats have been getting lit up at the Caribbean.
- [46:43]
Buck Sexton
Last question for you, and we appreciate that you sharing that story about your daughter. And I know there's many people out there that have had similar experiences because unfortunately, we've been losing 100 people a year to fentanyl poisoning. What do you think President Trump would do if China invaded Taiwan? And how would you assess the probability or likelihood of something like that happening in the next three years of his term in office?
- [47:13]
Stephen Yates
Well, I certainly hope that President Trump sees it as a potential catastrophic development, not because of just the well being of the people of Taiwan, but it would lead to such a severe market reaction that it would be cataclysmic for our own gross domestic product for a sustained period of time. It would call into question alliances if we didn't rally to find a way to push back against this kind of encroachment. And it would be crippling in this race for AI and other things that are unfortunately a very, very important part of our future economic and social way of life. So I hope that he is improving deterrence. I think that's what Secretary Hegseth was all about. I think the reform of the manufacturing supply chain and making sure that those are safe and clean supply chains are necessary. Down payment on getting that right, having new allies or new leaders among our allies that are serious about it, like in Japan, all of this is to the good. So I'm hoping that directionally we've got the right team and we're starting to do the right policies. And if there's rationality left and right in Beijing, they would say, you know what, this would be a bad day to test Uncle Sam.
- [48:31]
Clay Travis
Stephen Yates of the Heritage Foundation. Stephen, we'll have you back again soon. A lot of important things happening in the area of the world that you know best. Thanks for being with us.
- [48:39]
Stephen Yates
Thank you, Buck.
- [48:40]
Buck Sexton
Thank you for sure. Look, speaking of areas of the world that are always cultural flashpoints, unfortunately anti Semitism is on the rise, targeting Jewish businesses, schools, even synagogues. Some communities are hiring armed security to protect themselves. Sad that two years after October 7th we find ourselves facing this degree of hate. If you want to support your Jewish brothers and sisters, stand with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. The ICJ is on the front lines providing real help where it's needed most. They're giving food and shelter to Jewish families that feel under threat. And they're helping survivors of hate rebuild their lives. And they don't just respond to crisis basis, they work every day to help prevent it. Your gift of $45 will help support their life saving work. I've seen it for myself by helping provide food, shelter and much more. Supporting the IFCJ is a spiritual stand you can take as well. So please call 888-488 IFCJ. That's 888-488-4325. You can also go online to IFCJ.org every dollar helps. Don't wait, wait. Be the difference. Visit IFCJ.org you can also call 888-488-IFCJ. Now keep up with the biggest political comeback in world history on the Team 47 podcast Clay and Buck highlight Trump replays from the week, Sundays at noon Eastern. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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- [52:16]
Buck Sexton
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. We may have stepped into a coin loving buzzsaw here. Buck it is. The comments are going to be very very funny. I think on this the poll you can go vote in it. Thousands of you are already weighing in and the general consensus is it's close to 5050 on whether we should be eliminating all Coins. The reason why I brought that up was because today is reportedly the last day I saw this on Fox News, that they are going to be producing the penny. Penny. It definitely costs more to produce the penny than the penny is worth. And so in the future, the smallest coin would now be the nickel. And I think going forward, you're going to see more and more arguments about, hey, do we still need to continue to produce coins? There would still be coins in circulation probably for, you know, the next hundred years. I mean, I don't know how long it would go on. Here's a fun stat for you, Buck, before we dive into phenomenal messenger for the Democrats, Jasmine Crockett. What percentage of money that exists in the world today actually physically exists? What percentage of money?
- [53:38]
Clay Travis
15, 20.
- [53:40]
Buck Sexton
Good guess. I'm told it's 10.
- [53:42]
Clay Travis
Okay, I was. I was in the room. I was in the row.
- [53:45]
Buck Sexton
But yeah, I think that will blow a lot of your minds out there. In other words, if you went to the bank and you have X dollars and everybody went to the bank and they have X dollars, I mean, this is sort of a bank run. The physical notes that represent the vast majority of the wealth in the world. It doesn't exist. It's just numbers on a computer screen. Only about 10% of the dollars in America, of the euros in America, of all of the different currencies, physically exist. That's something kind of interesting. And the younger you are young people, and I sound like an old guy every time I say that. Young people, and I'm getting to be an old guy, they don't even carry money. I mean, like the actual physical carrying of money. They have their iPhone, they pay with Apple pay. They have credit cards. They don't physically carry around cash at all. They have Venmo, they have Zelle. They have all these different ways to share expenses when they're buying, you know, going out for dinners or whatever else, concert tickets. It's kind of wild. We're moving towards a cashless society already. And I think we're moving there in really rapid fashion, much to producer Greg Chagrin.
- [55:03]
Clay Travis
Well, yes, and I do agree that there are concerns about not having the privacy and the ability to just have currency that the government is not tracking and aware of at all times. But I don't know, man. Pennies. Not. Not a fan of pennies. Quarters. I'm a little more open to.
- [55:23]
Robby Starbuck
A little more open.
- [55:24]
Buck Sexton
Did you ever work retail? Did you ever work at a place where you had to accept cash, make change, like process transactions? I've done a lot of retail in my life. Life.
- [55:35]
Clay Travis
Tell everybody. Clay, Abercrombie and Fitch. Were they only, where they only hired good looking people when Clay did it. He loves to remind us all. My wife too shy about it. I'm like, I'm like, so you were hired at the Florida Abercrombie or you know, Fitch or like the Orlando area, whatever, because you were cute, right? Like, just say it. She's like, no, I was a hard worker. I'm like, right, right.
- [55:56]
Buck Sexton
It was a, the retail jobs that I had. I worked at American Eagle, now famous because of the Sydney Sweeney jeans. For years I worked at a company called Media Play in the book section. The idea there was you could buy CDs, you could buy books. Some of you will remember the concept. Big box retailer. And then I worked at Abercrombie and Fitch, Pentagon City Mall in Washington D.C. while I was in college. One of the best jobs I ever had. Buck. Pretty girls walk in. You got an immediate excuse to talk to pretty girls. It's like, I mean that's basically, I'll.
- [56:30]
Clay Travis
Tell you the truth, man. I got caught up in the world. And this was really common in New York, the world of the unpaid corporate internship I had. And in retrospect, I got scammed. I think it would have been way better. Now some, some places I got like, I worked at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and they, because they actually had interns do real work. They paid you like you were paid. It was, you know, it was maybe three or four hundred bucks a week or something at the time. But it was like, like at the time, living in D.C. with three roommates over the summer, that was real money. But I, I, I remember other places where I worked and I did, I worked at the Council on Foreign Relations as an intern. They didn't pay. And that place has a huge cf. People like cfr, that's the, the globalist and the Illuminati. Yeah, I was an intern there. Trust me, no one cared. No one remembered me. They didn't pay and people were, or there was someone who got a, an actual recommendation from, I think it was the crown prince of Jordan or something for one of those internships, Clay. I mean, people would go all out for these, didn't matter. These unpaid internships. It doesn't, People are like, oh, it'll translate into a job. What I'm saying is, I think your experience of actually working in commerce and capitalism, a much better play for people and it establishes is something of an economic libido you're like, oh, work harder, work longer, more money. An internship where you're not paid just so you can put it on your resume, you're actually incentivized to do as little as possible and get out of there as fast as possible.
- [58:07]
Buck Sexton
And I think they're diminishing the number of unpaid internships in general. Oh, no, it's.
- [58:13]
Clay Travis
There are rules against it now. There are rules against it now because it became so exploitative. Like, I did one at CBS Evening News, but I got school credit for it, so that seemed like a fair. But I did summer internships, a number of them, starting when I was even in high school, where I didn't get any. I didn't get paid, and I was just basically fetching coffee and making Xeroxes so I could put on my resume that I would. This was a thing in the 90s. Those of you who are elder Millennials, not you old Gen X people. Gen X people, you got to worry about your creaking joints and bones. The elder Millennials, you know what I'm talking about. You. We all got scammed, man. Late 90s. It was like. Like, Clay. I worked at a. A. At a music label for a summer, for a couple months, and it was a complete waste of my time.
- [58:58]
Buck Sexton
This is unexpected. You worked at a music label for, like, a month?
- [59:01]
Clay Travis
Yeah, like an internship. Total waste of time. They're, like, the biggest. I. I think it was supposed to be all summer. I legitimately told my parents, like, I'm gonna go play tennis, and said, this is a waste of time. So.
- [59:11]
Buck Sexton
Yeah. What was the music label? Death Row?
- [59:15]
Robby Starbuck
I.
- [59:16]
Clay Travis
No, no, no, no, it wasn't. It was actually a music publishing company, so it was kind of, like, did A and R, and it was own publishing.
- [59:22]
Robby Starbuck
Right.
- [59:22]
Clay Travis
Clay was the most boring intern. I don't even remember. I was, like, 17. It's the worst thing ever. Worst.
- [59:27]
Buck Sexton
Worst way I ever spent a summer in college. When I was at GW undergrad, I went and worked on Capitol Hill as part of being a student in D.C. and that was actually somewhat useful and interesting. But, yeah, there's a ton of those that don't have any impact at all. I was just thinking, nowadays, when you work retail and a lot of you out there who work in. Who work in restaurants or whatever else, I don't even remember the last time I saw someone pay in a restaurant with cash. You know, they have all these mobile devices now where they can come right to your. Right to your table and, like, take all your money. I don't even remember some. A lot of places won't even take cash now. Now we used to. The reason I was bringing it up Buck is at the end of the day at American Eagle, and it doesn't seem very safe now. We would have a big bag of cash that we would deposit into the bank that we would clear out the cash registers with. And I was thinking about it the other day because if I tried to explain that to my kids, they wouldn't even understand. And it was filled with coins and it was filled with cash, and we had to tally it up and we had to take it and we had to deposit it. At the end of the day, there's never any security. I remember thinking, this doesn't make a lot of sense. There's thousands and thousands of dollars. But that was what we had to do because the physical encapsulation of money was such a thing. And remember in Breaking Bad, when he starts to make real amounts of money, great television show, and he doesn't even know what to do with all the cash. This is one of the challenges of the drug trade in general. It's all a cash business. It takes a lot of space when you have actual. The physical manifestation of all that. What wealth.
- [61:08]
Clay Travis
Somebody. Somebody can tell me what the. This was a famous problem that Pablo Escobar, the world's drug kingpin back in the 80s and 90s, and really the original public enemy number one of the US government in the pre war on terror terror era. He had something that they would call spoilage clay, which was they had. So they could not find a place to put all the cash that they were making by selling cocaine in the United States. And so they would store it underground in pallets and rats would eat it. And they. There was some crazy figure, tens of millions of dollars a year they thought they were losing to rats eating their cash because that's how much cash they were making in the illegal drug trade. One thing that used to exist in New York, it doesn't really anymore. But there were a number of restaurants that were famous, Clay. For being cash only.
- [62:00]
Buck Sexton
Yeah.
- [62:01]
Clay Travis
And. And it was basically because it was like they weren't really reporting all the money they were making. You know, that was the idea.
- [62:09]
Buck Sexton
Yes. But the.
- [62:10]
Clay Travis
The IRS got way better at. At calculating the. You know, because they can base it off your inventory. So what you buy. What are you buying monthly?
- [62:20]
Anabe Sofas Advertiser
Oh, really?
- [62:20]
Clay Travis
You're only making that much, but you're buying this much. So they have ways of figuring this stuff out.
- [62:25]
Buck Sexton
Bars and restaurants. That was huge, huge they would avoid reporting the actual dollars that came into the building. And now, obviously, you can't do that with credit card. And a lot of you out there who get tips, it's way easier to track your tips now in a credit card era than it ever was when you just got cash handed to you.
- [62:42]
Clay Travis
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a very.
- [62:44]
Buck Sexton
All right, let's play this. We'll react to it a little bit as we go forward. A lot of discussion about what's the future of the Democrat Party. You've got Spanberger and. And the.
- [62:54]
Jasmine Crockett
The. The.
- [62:54]
Buck Sexton
The governor in New Jersey who just won. Mickey Sherrill, I think was her name. And they're arguing, hey, we're moderates. We know that's a lie. But they're arguing that's the path. Mamdani is clearly on the far left of the Democrat Party. And then there is an argument out there, and it is interesting that, that the future of the Democrat Party should actually be defined by Jasmine Crockery, who. Charlemagne, the God. You sat with him at a recent fundraising event.
- [63:25]
Clay Travis
We know.
- [63:26]
Buck Sexton
We had dinner.
- [63:27]
Clay Travis
We had dinner in Cannes with a group as part of our iHeart Festival there. And it was. It was a great. He's great company. Very, very, very good time.
- [63:36]
Buck Sexton
Okay, so you probably agree with him, as I do, that, yes, the Democrats are underutilizing Jasmine Crockett. She really is a phenomenal messenger for their worldview. They should use her more.
- [63:47]
Jasmine Crockett
Listen, Jasmine Crockett is actually what the Democrats should be leaning into, like, because she is a phenomenal messenger. And some people just got it. Like, some people just have a different anointing on them. She's always on message about something. I was watching her yesterday, and she was. She was like, yo, Donald Trump is racist, and this whole administration is racist, and it starts at the top. And she just broke down example after example, and it was so powerful and so provocative. And you. You understood what the root of her issue was, and she got you by just saying, Donald Trump is racist and this administration is racist, and let me tell you why. And then you get into all of the issues. I'm like, yo, you need somebody like Jasmine Crockett. She is the most effective messenger that the Democratic Party has right now, and they need to be using her as a Trojan horse.
- [64:39]
Buck Sexton
Using her as a Trojan horse is an interesting analogy there, because the Trojan horse didn't actually work out that well, necessarily.
- [64:48]
Clay Travis
Well, it depends. Depends on what work does great for.
- [64:51]
Buck Sexton
The Greeks that you're looking at it from yes, but. But the concept of Chasmine Crockett as a phenomenal messenger, Buck, I think, is one of the worst takes. If I were actually telling Democrats what to do.
- [65:07]
Clay Travis
This is where you and I.
- [65:08]
Buck Sexton
She is.
- [65:10]
Clay Travis
I went from being a unknown congresswoman to being talked about right here on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, radio programs in the country. Clay. She has met her, and it's purely a function of brand, you know, the branding and communication approach that she has. You know, people were all making fun of AOC the bartender. She's one of the biggest names in Democrat politics now. So I. We're in a new era now. You have to be. Look at Mom, Donnie. You have to be social media savvy. You have to understand how to go viral. And to people who say, oh, but the crazy things. Yeah, but they just. Look what they did with Biden. They'll just lie about the crazy things they've said or done. Or even Kamala. Kamala's like, yeah, we need trans surgery for foreigners who come into the country illegally funded by taxpayers. And then when it was time, she's like, yeah, no, we don't need to do that.
- [66:00]
Buck Sexton
That.
- [66:01]
Clay Travis
That's all they'll do.
- [66:02]
Buck Sexton
This is. I, I, I don't disagree on this. It's great for her. It's awful, I think, for the Democrat Party. But to your point, Buck, you and I were talking about this off air. There's almost no consequence for crazy anymore. Like, we aren't crazy enough. Like, our opinions are so rational and reasonable that you actually are incentivized now to be totally bonkers in everything.
- [66:27]
Clay Travis
I want to run a psychology experiment where we just do a podcast, Clay. We launch a new podcast where I just say the craziest stuff possible that I know will get the most attention possible. And then we give all the proceeds to charity. Because I think, by the way, I think I'd be funding wings for children's hospitals. I think. I mean, I think we would be cashier.
- [66:50]
Buck Sexton
Craziest thing that we could argue tongue in cheek for the audience, but it would go mega viral, and it's actually a great idea.
- [66:59]
Clay Travis
But the only problem is, I don't know if it would be as crazy as some of the things that I'm hearing these days. So I don't know. I don't know. There's some interesting stuff online these days, just putting that out there. Some of us have to stay within the facts and reality that we live in. But it would be nice to be able to just get. Get as crazy as we want. It'd be kind of a fun experiment.
- [67:18]
Buck Sexton
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- [69:22]
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- [69:44]
Robby Starbuck
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- [69:45]
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- [69:51]
iHeart Radio Announcer
This is an I heart podcast.