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David Rutherford Show: "31 Years in Hell" — Dusty Turner's First Interview as a Free Man
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Martha Stewart
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David Rutherford
You spent 30 years incarcerated knowing you were innocent. What keeps you going every day knowing you're there and you're innocent?
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Dusty Turner
Let me tell you something. I went through hell. It's hell week every day. The only reason I went to prison is because he told a different story. And so now he confesses. I was going to be out. That was 2008. I was already giving my stuff away in prison to other prisoners because I knew I was about to go home within a matter of days. They created a brand new theory that a jury could believe that there was still guilt on my part, even with the credible truthful confession of the actual murderer. It's insane. The whole thing is absolutely insane. And the more you look at it, the more you, you'll be amazed at it.
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David Rutherford
Welcome to the David Rutherford Show. I'm your host, David Rutherford. And today's show really is an emotional show for me because the man that I interview that you'll hear later, who spent 31 years incarcerated under wrongful pretense. It was unjustly convicted on the murder that was ultimately confessed by the person who murdered this young girl, Jennifer Evans, back in 1995. Two young fresh graduates of SEAL training. Dusty Turner is the interview. Billy Brown was the man who ultimately committed he murdered. This whole man's life was destroyed and he was recently released on March 3. We interviewed him on April 20 to get his story for all of you. And then all hell break loose. And this is what happened immediately. On April 21st he was arrested for parole violations. The issue centered around disclosure requirements for a in quotation significant relationship. Basically when he got advanced parole, he had to disclose did he have any significant relationships that's possibly an intimate? We don't know because significant isn't clearly defined in any of the case. Study or case law or anything. And, and I'll get to where a church. The 2nd Circuit actually had invalidated this in another case because it was so arbitrary. Invited arbitrary enforcement, raising due process concerns. That was from the Second Circuit on another case. So the parole officer essentially arrests him for violating the disclosure. Although on 5 March in his parole meeting he disclosed the names of two women. One that he said was a significant relationship and one that was a. In quotation significant relation that was not intimate. Gave the names, the numbers, the whole thing. Well, fast forward on the day of his arrestment and then his arraignment which took place on. On a week ago Monday on the 27th. The PO was questioned and basically said it wasn't in quotes. It is not my responsibility to call her. End quote. According to Dusty's attorney, the. The parole officer consciously chose not to make contact with these two people.
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Martha Stewart
Right.
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David Rutherford
Because when you. You have to understand the disclosure according to the. The courts. Right. And, and stature and state law is basically to make sure that the. Because Dusty was paroled for the original. Because that original hearing of murder conviction has not been. I don't know what you call it disbanded or, or adjudicated or, or, or gotten rid of next to Dusty's name. He still has that conviction in there. Even though Billy Brown has come out and said he had nothing to do with it. I murdered her. He wasn't involved.
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Dusty Turner
Right.
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David Rutherford
It's still there. So by legal responsibility Dusty has to tell the parole officer in the courts and hey, I'm involved with these women by name. So that, that they're aware of. I guess the court's mind wants to make them aware that he was involved in a murder case of a young woman. Right. To protect them potentially for innocence. So again, the. His attorney who I've talked to basically said that the. The parole officer consciously chose not to make contact, which would have gone a long way in answering questions or concerns and to an intentionally vague term that was included and obviously designed for actual predators. Right. Not for two consenting adults.
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Martha Stewart
Right.
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David Rutherford
Subsequently, there was one further encounter with another individual who has known Dusty for years and was aware of his history. This encountered by any reasonable measure does not amount to in quotes a significant relationship. His parole agreements and this is coming from his attorney in a text I just got his parole agreements specified that he had to abide by the instructions of his probation and parole officer and be truthful, cooperative and report as instruction the condition. No. Number 16 of the separate sex offender special instructor states quote, you will inform Persons with whom you have a significant relationship of your sexual offending behavior as directed by your supervising PNP officer and or treatment treatment provider. So Dusty did all of these things and informed of these people of a significant relationship and this other person, they basically caught him or, or whatever on this vague statement of quote, insignificant relationship. So saying all that to say that, imagine spending 31 years incarcerated for a crime you didn't commit. That crime was proven in 2008 in a court of law by the original testimony, the guy who committed the murder, Billy Brown, to a judge, which then was not adjudicated and released of that sentence and released immediately because even if he had been convicted of the other misdemeanor with accessory after the fact was a one year max sentencing, this guy did 31 years, was released and right before he is about ready to leave the state to go home to the state of Indiana, he was brought in by a parole officer for what seemed to just be some Q and A and immediately rested on the scene and now he's back in jail for a parole violation. This sucks. This is why our judicial system is corrupt, why it's broken and why good people get the shitty end of the stick on a regular basis. And it doesn't just happen with Dusty Turner. And it doesn't. Yes, it does matter to me that this young man was railroaded from the beginning. That by, you know, an entire group of peers that should have been supportive of him, should have gotten behind him, should have helped them through this, that they didn't. They wanted to get rid of the problem as they typically do in the military, and basically abandoned him in the time this 20 year old kid needed help. And for 31 years he languished in prison for something he did do. Now this isn't the first time I've covered a story like this. When I was on the Team Never Quit Pro podcast, we had a guy, a black gentleman named Kwame Angenu, who was incarcerated, right, because of the coerced testimony from a 12 year old boy. And it was later found out that the, the, the young boy, the, the police officers said, if you don't testify, it was these three kids, we're going to put your mother in jail for the rest of her life. And so he testified. Kwame spent 12, his first 12 years out of 27 on death row. 20, remember, imagine being 17 years old and going on death row for something you didn't commit and nobody's there to help you. His brother and his brother's best friend, they were on Death row for years longer than that, ultimately eventually getting out at 33 and 35 years of being wrongfully incarcerated. This happens all the time. It happens in criminal court, it happens in civil courts, it happens in divorce proceedings, it happens constantly. That's the reason I'm doing it and the reason that I believe Dusty deserves an opportunity to tell you from his own mouth what happened, how it makes him feel. What was it like being incarcerated for 31 years for something you didn't do and how you feel now on the precipice of your real freedom, starting your new life from scratch and right before he gets thrown back in jail. And what I'm hoping that after you listen to him talk to me in this interview, that you have something in your heart that is stirred, you have something in your mind that makes you realize the wrongful nature of what's taking place to this man and that you act upon it. You, you share this interview with somebody else. You, you go, you call up the parole board of, of Virginia, you call up the governor, you call up your congressman, you start bitching and moaning and you start saying, hey, this is, that's being served. This is a political hack job because they don't want to come out, admit that they up back in the old days and that they didn't get the right guy and that they destroyed this man's life. Should he have served? Absolutely. For accessory after the fact. Was it a year? No, I probably think 5 years at least. The dude did 31 years even after the fact that it would came out that he didn't commit murder. But again, it's not my, my job to hold judgment on, on the courts other than when I see wrongful actions of justice. And that's what this interview is about. So please open your mind and open your heart and listen to what Dusty had to tell me about his experience of, of being a young frogman and getting arrested and what going through this whole circumstance and then spending his entire adult life. And now just imagine after you listen to this, what he feels like, what he's going through, being forced back incarcerated on a fucking ambiguous term like significant relationship. Without further ado, here's my interview with Mr. Dusty Turner. Dusty, welcome to the show. I can't thank you enough for wanting to come on. I think, you know, the, the, the, the, the depth of your wisdom is, is profound. We got to talk last night at length and I just, I'm really excited that you're willing to come on and just talk about this experience in depth. So thank you, sir.
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Dusty Turner
Well, I appreciate you for having me on here.
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David Rutherford
Yes. All right. One of the things that you and I discussed a little bit. A little bit before we just got on is. Is the idea of redemption.
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Dusty Turner
Right?
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David Rutherford
And, you know, I think, you know, if you. If you have even a modicum of faith, the idea is that you can. You can make a mistake, but. But in some capacity, you know, in. You know, in our. In being a Christian, like, that's the whole pretense, like, we all sin, and then through Christ's own sacrifice, we can be forgiven. But the challenge in your case is, one, I think it's a lack of education based on the specificity of the circumstances. But two, it's just this, you know, this overall idea that this young girl, Jennifer Evans, lost her life. And then there was, you know, these two, you know, Navy SEAL guys that were responsible. And so there's this unrealistic expectation that, you know, your guilt is always linked to some malevolent, diabolical, you know, destructive circumstance. And so let's just start there. How do you process the grief her family has existed in, and then now your process of being free and managing that. That sense of redemption? Because I would imagine you spent a lot of time thinking about this while you were incarcerated.
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Dusty Turner
It h. So it is a lot, right? It's. That's a lot. I think that I had a difficult time maybe processing the grief aspect when it comes to Jennifer's death and me witnessing her murder, trying to process that, while at the same time fighting for my own justice. You know, as, you know, they convicted me of. Of crimes that I didn't commit. And, you know, dealing with that and dealing with being incarcerated, obviously, and. And then also with my family suffering on a daily basis through that. Through that whole ordeal. So it was difficult, and it has been maybe somewhat difficult to really grasp and process Jennifer's death. And, you know, I was. I was asked by the parole board, who granted me parole, to kind of limit, I guess, speaking about Jennifer in. In out of respect for her family and loved ones, in which I. I have done and continue to do. And. And also I've gone through a lot of victim impact and victim advocacy courses just to better learn, you know, what it's like and what that means, you know, to be victimized and the impact of that upon, you know, the survivors and the family and. And that kind of thing. So I've tried to be cautious also in speaking because I don't want to re. Traumatize her family and friends. Right. But yet I'M in the middle of it and so I have to, you know, while weaving through that I, I'm still kind of obligated to speak about the entire situation and you know, her tragic murder. So, so processing it has not been easy. But, but you know, I'm taking those steps and what that looks like and you know, it's just a sad situation all the way around. Right. This young lady who is completely innocent single child, you know, you know, just a wonderful and beautiful young lady who had everything going for her and should not, absolutely should not have lost her life.
- [19:16]
David Rutherford
Yeah, I, I, you know, as I, you know, as I was preparing for the interview and obviously we, you know, we had, you know, two people who had been advocating for your release when we first launched the show this past summer and they were wonderful and you're so blessed to have such amazing people and also your mom and your mom is just, she's probably my favorite man. Just how, you know, I guess, you know, the love of a son is, is pretty, pretty substantial and to stick by your side and the way she did for as long, it's just really, really speaks volumes as to your real character. Right. That people would stay involved in this fight for you so long. But one of the things, you know, obviously as you know what, what and I, and I gotta admit like I, I, I didn't really ever think about this to the extent of what being wrongfully incarcerated was until I used to be do a show with Marcus Luttrell and for a long time back in the day and we had a guy on, his name was Kwame Angenu and he was wrongfully prosecuted in Philadelphia. The police officer there was a murder and the police 12 year old boy to admit it was the Kwame and his brother and his brother's best friend who had murdered this person, you know, because they had told the young boy if you don't identify these three, I'm going to put your mom in jail for the rest of her life. So this kid gives false testimony and Kwame, at 17 years old finds himself on death row. And, and, and just to process that is such, such an overwhelming and, and I remember hearing him and his experience was so moving to me that it flipped my whole perspective on this issue in the justice system and these, you know, the places that it's really fractured and non sufficient. Can you kind of just give the audience a refresher of where you were at 20 years old, where you were at, at the SEAL teams and, and just like what your, why your life was like, you know, the day before versus the day after.
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Dusty Turner
Yeah, it's really tragic. So I think, like yourself, I come into the Navy under the delayed entry program, Dive Fair. And so initially I was going to be a diver. You know, coming into boot camp, I had already set my sights on wanting to be a seal. I, you know, I did everything I, I was supposed to do and needed to do to get myself there. I made it through buds. I started class 194 and in towards the end of Hell week, I was injured, ended up in ICU at the hospital. And fortunately I was further farther along through Hell week that I was put forward into the next class. Actually I rolled back for two classes. So I, I hung there in rollback land until I classed up with 196 and graduated with them. 19 guys, I think we had one foreign national that was with us from Singapore. And after jump school, I was hoping to get to Team 4, the area of operations, you know, Central and South America. That's what I was looking to do. And that's where I got to. And, and I was put into Echo platoon of Team 4 and had gone through the STT and was at the concluding weeks of STT. We don't, you know, we'd gone down to Puerto Rico and did some, you know, some of the advanced dive training and, and come back up and we were finishing up some, some stuff for A.P. hill and looking forward to my first deployment down to Panama. And that's where I was the day before. Right. And the day before this happened, everything was normal. In fact, that day everything was pretty damn normal. Right. We were at a, I guess, kind of a popular nightclub that night. It was called the, the Bayou. It's a place I've been to a couple times before. And, and of course everything changed that night. You know, again, it was an absolutely normal night. So I haven't introduced the, the individual yet who completely changed my life and not for the good. Billy Joe Brown. And I can talk about him a bit and how he.
- [24:23]
David Rutherford
Please, please do.
- [24:24]
Dusty Turner
Okay, well, let me go back then. So in, in towards the beginning of Buzz training, as you know, in your boat crew, you're, you're with guys who are the same height. And Billy Joe Brown is a guy from Ohio with a very checkered past, which I wasn't aware of at the time. And how he got into the Navy and then into, into buds and in the SEAL teams to this day, I have no idea because of his past. But I was paired up with him as a swim buddy only because we were the same height. And that was, that was right there in, in first phase. And we ended up, we went through Hell week together as swim buddies. And this is, I mean, it's got to be pretty much unprecedented because we, as you know, you know, going through first phase in Hell Week, it's likely that the guys next to you aren't going to be there right. At the end of all that and certainly by the time you get out of training. But he was there. And at the conclusion of hell week, I'm rolled back for two classes. He's rolled back for two classes for a femoral neck injury. Right. I'm sorry. Femoral neck fracture. I had pulmonary edema and amongst other things in, in my, had the fractured tibias. And so he's also in rollback land with me from Class 194 into Class 196. We end up graduating together, we go down to jump school together. We get assigned to the same team. Right. Team four. And we're put in the same platoon. Right.
- [26:07]
David Rutherford
Wow.
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Dusty Turner
So I'm, I'm, I'm really stuck with this guy. I had, I, in, in a lot of ways I helped him get through buds. Right. I was a, a pretty proficient swimmer and I was very, I was a competitive swimmer in high school and you know, I gave up the chance to go to, to get a scholarship in college swimming because I wanted to join the military and I wanted to fight for this country and I wanted to be in the SEAL teams. That's, that's what I wanted to do. And so anyway, I would often find myself dragging him through certain water evolutions and you know, in hindsight, obviously, you know, I wish that I would have let him, you know, die on his own, so to speak, to, to fail on his own. But there we were. You know, I don't know how often that would happen for two guys to be assigned as, as, as swim buddies.
- [27:08]
David Rutherford
Yeah, I've, I mean, I got, I was in two med rolls in a performance role and I've never, I have a ton of friends. I've never seen any story like yours where two guys had the same sequence and made it to the same team in the same platoon.
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Dusty Turner
I, I've just, I mean, is it, is, was it done on purpose? You know, I mean, why, why, how is that possible?
- [27:35]
David Rutherford
I mean, I, I, at your story. I, I don't even know where you begin to. I'm sure you've spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours processing every single second
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Dusty Turner
of the entire arc, right? Yeah. Perhaps yeah, but regardless, you know, that's where I was. But you know, even so, he had a, like I said, a checkered past. He had violence against women in his past before joining the military, not just the, the Navy. He actually joined this Coast Guard first. And so he gets in the Coast Guard and apparently he assaults an officer or something. They kick him out of the Coast Guard and he gets in the Navy. Right. Not only does he get in the Navy, but, you know, it gets on to buds. I witnessed him, not just myself, but other guys that I was training with witnessed him become aggressive towards women at least twice during the time we were in, both in San Diego and then also later in Virginia Beach. Oh, and Puerto Rico. He was, he became extremely violent where it took like five of us to restrain him. In Puerto Rico, when he was becoming very aggressive towards two young ladies. Right.
- [28:55]
David Rutherford
How come, how come like the training cell along the way didn't see this or how come they didn't point it out? Why didn't they say anything? Was he ever counseled or anything like that that you know of?
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Dusty Turner
Not that I know of, but the guys around us, they knew, they seen it, you know. And so also at the, in third phase, towards the end of Bud's, he had gotten into a drunken accident where he hit a family, a hit and run type deal. The family had gotten his license plate and description, etc, and of course it ends up with the police department. And once again, somehow this just gets kind of swept under the rug. Right? So it was just, you know, step after step after step of kind of red flags against this guy, of why, why is he there? But, but regardless, he makes it through buds, right? Some believe that he would have. And it's hard for me to believe this because he was right there on the precipice of getting his trident tacked on that somehow he wouldn't have gotten the trident tacked on. Right. But if he made it this far, why not? The man was a psychopath. He was a psychopath who was also heavily abusing alcohol, not to mention all the steroids that, that he was using back in San Diego all the way up until coming to Team four. Right. So. And this was somewhat part of the culture, not, you know, as you, you've heard and about the steroids.
- [30:32]
David Rutherford
I was there right after, I mean, I was literally there a few classes after you. Yeah, of course it was, it was all, you know, this is for those listening, this is pre 9 11. And so this was a much different E where, you know, social activities and partying and being tough guys and you know, being a freed and frightened root and tootin barrel chested frogman was, was kind of what was drilled into you as, as a bud student and, and guys like Brown who, they took that stuff on board and implemented it and took it to another level. And you know, it's, it's the, But I, you know, I, I, I never saw a lot of, you know, the abusiveness towards women. I mean that thing, that's pretty unique.
- [31:17]
Dusty Turner
It is un. I didn't really see it. I don't know. I didn't know about his past. You know, he had assaulted he, at 17 years old. He was married to a 14 year old. And it, and it took like three cops one time to restrain him while he's dragging this girl across the yard in his home in Ohio. Right. But then there was an incident. We were at a, at a Billy Ray Cyrus concert on the base in Little Creek and he ends up, we, he and I end up in a freaking pond up to our noses hiding from the police after he became aggressive towards a woman and he didn't put her, his hands on her, but it was enough for her to call the police on him. And they got the mps out there looking for us. We're hiding out in a pond somewhere till nightfall to get his ass out of there. And this was a recurring thing, right? I'm having to save this guy on a recurring basis. And it's not just me and some of the other ones too, in my class or, or in, you know, out there going through stt. Yeah.
- [32:23]
David Rutherford
And I think that's the question, Dusty, for so many guys out there, I mean, not just from the community, but from all people. Just listen. Like, what kept you just close to him? Was it just the nature of being in the same duty station, the same sequence? Or was he a guy that you thought you could help get through? What was, what was the thing?
- [32:47]
Dusty Turner
Well, he was already through, right? Yeah, he was already through. He's another, he's a, he's a team guy. You know, he doesn't have his trident tact on yet. Yeah, and nor do I, but he's, he's there, Right. So what do you do? I'm younger than he is. I'm the youngest at the time. I'm the youngest SEAL team member will say in the whole Navy. I'm 20. I checked into team four. I wasn't, I wasn't even, I was 19 years old. I checked in the team four at 19 years old. Right. And you know, I should Have. Still, regardless, I should have, you know, had the, the responsibility to, to maybe report some of these things to some of our senior officers. Right. I didn't. Yeah, I'm not the only one, but I'll take ownership of that. I should have reported some of these things, but it's also part of the, like said, kind of the culture at the time, in the mid-90s, you know, that. How abnormal was it? Some of these things now, now, like
- [33:49]
David Rutherford
you said, it wasn't.
- [33:50]
Dusty Turner
Well, the, the, the, the, the aggressiveness towards women.
- [33:53]
David Rutherford
Yeah, that I, that's the one thing I didn't see. But that's like, you know, you see that, that's unique to sociopathology or, or psychopathology, for sure.
- [34:02]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. Right.
- [34:03]
David Rutherford
In that dark triad, so. All right, you know, I appreciate you giving context for, about him. Let's, let's talk about. If we could just, you know, for a few minutes, you know, and I hate to try and like, encapsulate them, you know, the magnitude of what that felt like, but let's, let's talk about those nine days because that's the thing I, I get contacted most about. How can you support a guy like, like Rut, you have daughters, man. How can you support a died. It was nine days he let go by. So. Yeah, you know, I, I just want to address that this so people can get from your lips just the. How profoundly, you know, agonizing that must have been in every way.
- [34:56]
Dusty Turner
So it's, it's, it's a bit incomprehensible to, to understand what that's like to, to witness what I witnessed and then to keep quiet about it. Right. I was duty bound to keep quiet about it. And you could say, well, you really weren't or you didn't have to. You could have told someone something. Right. And I don't disagree. In hindsight, I think that I was stuck in this position where I felt like there was a seal code that required me to keep quiet about what happened. Right. And to not expose it and why I cannot expose the guy I've been trying to protect, because this is how I've been trained. I cannot come out about what happened of this horrible, horrible incident.
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David Rutherford
It.
- [35:56]
Dusty Turner
Because it's going to create such a stain on the brand that's going to reverberate across the whole freaking country. Right? And so all that is on my shoulders as this young kid who's never had any. I've had no kind of criminal activities mindset, nothing like that. You know, I come from a good Family, A fam. A military oriented family. I'm following my people's footsteps in the military to fight for this country and I'm trained to protect a psychopath. Right. And this is where I'm at at 19 years old.
- [36:36]
David Rutherford
Wow.
- [36:36]
Dusty Turner
Right. And so what do I do? And this is the position I'm in. I don't, I literally don't know what the hell to do. Right. You know, and who do I tell? So in hindsight, I should have, I should have went to the superior officers, right? I should have told them. I should have told them. I felt like I was duty bound first and foremost to my swim buddy and I couldn't rat him out for what he had done. Right. And what, what happens after that? What happens to me? What happens to the brand after that? You know, what happens to all of it. And so I'm in a position where literally I don't know what to do. And then, and then also just the weight of, the weight of a, a young lady being murdered and taken from her family. And, and I witnessed this and you know, I helped him cover it up. And this is what I'm living with at this age and at this point in my life, everything was grand. The day before, the day of, I mean, everything was great. There was no issues. You know, everything was great. I was, I was on top of the world as a young SEAL team member about to get my trident tacked on. And, and this is where I'm at now. The next minute I'm in this position not because I wanted to be, you know, I was forced to, I was forced into that position and to make those decisions on what the to do. And I wasn't trained to respond. You might have been trained to respond to that because you came after this case, right? And so you were told if you're, if your swim buddy does something crazy or stupid or whatever, to do this, this or that. That's not how I was trained. I was trained to protect my swim buddy. Right above and beyond everything. I will lay down my life, you know, and so I don't, you know,
- [38:44]
David Rutherford
we did get training after, but I'm going to tell you, it was not the type of training that, you know, you just described where it was, you know, in detail. I remember the first thing I got, we were in second phase and we had a senior guy come in and like, it was called like ethics training or morality training or something. And he basically was like, any you do the, that Turner and Brown did and we're gonna kill you individually and it was just like, oh, well, that. Okay. You know, and you're like. And, and I, I. It just was. And then that was it. It was like this blip. You know, you don't destroy the reputation of the teams. Don't do this shit. Don't be idiots. We'll kill you. You know, and, and you know, and obviously your class proctor kind of pulled it back, was like, hey, you guys, this is, you know, got a little bit more in depth about the description, but still wasn't, you know, I don't think anybody could at that time was capable of processing it because you're still under this, you know, this pressure of making it through, making it to the next day, getting to the next evolution. That whole concept, right, where you just kind of suppress the magnitude of the incident. It's like, you know, don't do that or you're gone type thing, right? So it was, it was weird. I just want to really talk about my incredible partnership with one of my best friends, and that's Evan Hair and the boys over at Black Rifle Coffee. I'm so honored to be a part of their organization and just really can't thank them enough for allowing me to participate. What I want you to do is, is go toBlack Rifle Coffee.com and I want to check out their new energy drinks. They have these incredible energy drinks that you can buy at all different kinds of stores. Walmart, Bass Sports and others. Or you can go online and order. And if you want to put in your little promo code froglogic20 there, you get a little discount on stuff there. I highly recommend that. That for me. It's my morning coffee. I am addicted to Black Rifle coffees. Just black. I think the tiger stripe camo definitely reels me in. The other one I love is the AK Espresso. This one right here is phenomenal. Love these. But they have so many different things that you can get at Black Rifle Coffee. You will love it again. When you go over blackrifflecoffee.com and you're checking out, type in FrogLogic2.0. Get your little discount quote. Tell them old ruddy rut rut sen you. So to all those folks out there who love coffee like I do, please do yourself a favor and go over and check out my, my brothers at brcc. If you're like me, I've got elderly parents and I'm trying to figure out what the future looks like with them. And so one of the things we have to evaluate is what their life insurance is about or even me at my age. It's critical. Now I've got a younger family. I want to make sure that they're taken care of and in case of some God foreseen unexpected event happens to me. So I'm here to tell you about Ethos. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. A hundred percent. Online you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes and literally within the same day you can get your coverage. There's no medical exam, just a few health questions and then you're on your way. And you can get up to $3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month. So if you really want to take care of yourself and take care of your family's future, then all you got to do is take 10 minutes to go get covered. Today. Get your free quote@ethos.com David that's e t h o s.com David Application times
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Podcast Host/Announcer
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Sponsor/Ad Reader
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures protect
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Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [44:30]
Martha Stewart
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- [45:11]
David Rutherford
When, when you finally went to your warm, this is kind of where the shift begins in terms of. I mean, malfeasance would be an understatement, I would imagine, coming from you. I mean, you start to, like, like, all right, you're, you're overwhelmed by that sense, I'm going to do the right thing. I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, go. I'm going to ask my superior for advice, and then I'm going to, you know, do what they say. So can you talk a little bit about that experience?
- [45:43]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. So it's kind of, it's kind of dynamic experience because it. First of all, the eight days that I'm going through after what happened, it was, it was horrible. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm dusty.
- [46:04]
David Rutherford
Can I hop in? Can I hop in and ask you one real quick question about the eight days? I'm so sorry. And popped in my head before. Did, did, did Brown threaten you at any way, shape or form in, in like, hey, I'm gonna kill you if you do this or if you dial me, you know, die me out. Or did you have that sense that he, he could be violent with you?
- [46:25]
Dusty Turner
Oh, no, I had more than a sense he could be violent. I mean, we had, we had some episodes. One in Puerto Rico where my guys brought me into town after Brown and I fought on the beach, and it was bloody and it was pretty nasty. And, and four guys, you know, took me into town for like five hours. By the time I came back, the guys that were still there at the base were like, dude, just turn around and go back because he's, he's looking for you and he says he's gonna kill you. And so, you know, these are, these are, this is the kind of guy he was. And yeah, and so there was that issue. I'm not going to say I was sitting Here, you know, that my, that my chief motivation was that I was afraid he was going to kill me. Right. That wasn't.
- [47:12]
David Rutherford
I just wanted to give it some context. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:15]
Dusty Turner
He was. He was an older. He was older than me. Everybody was older than me, but he was older than me. And, and, and some of this was crazy, right? He was just crazy. So. But, you know, the eight days was. Was terrible. And I had an weapon malfunction incident with a. Gosh, you know, I had a 762 round blow up in my face. And during that week, it was just crazy. I was wearing an eye patch for quite a few days. And so. But it was. It was tough. You know, it was tough to. I couldn't. Every day I'm out of the shooting range or doing whatever, I can't concentrate. I can't even concentrate just knowing what had happened and, and to this young lady. And to be honest, at the time, I wasn't even thinking about all the people that, that, that, that's. That, that is, you know, how that reverberates amongst, you know, would. Would be her family and friends and community members and so forth. And it, it was just. It was a lot. Right. So. So it gets to the point where the detectives, they have a bead on that, that I was there that night and Billy Brown was there that night, and that somehow that we could be, you know, connected to her death or her. I'm sorry, her missing. The fact that she was missing. They didn't know where she was at at the time, so they asked if we would be willing to take a polygraph test. I almost didn't hesitate whatsoever to say yes. I was in a position where I. I wanted so bad to relieve myself of the burden of. Of knowing what happened, but not knowing how to do that at that point. So in my mind, and you may. I don't know if this sounds crazy or not, but in my mind I was thinking, I can take the polygraph test. I can still lie on Billy Brown's behalf to protect him. If it shows that I'm lying, that's not my fault, right? And that I can't be blamed for breaking the code, so to speak, if the polygraph shows that I lied because I still was trying to lie to protect him, right? And that's exactly what happened. Now, Billy Brown, when they started to hook him up the polygraph, you know, he had no wins to take the polygraph. He's not going to take it, and he didn't. So I took the polygraph test. And afterwards the detectives came to me and said, look, it's obvious that you lied about this question, this and this, and, and, and it was right. They were right, you know, that's what I lied about. And so they knew from that polygraph the basics to what happened that night. And they knew that Billy Brown killed this young lady. Right. And so then they started badgering me a bit and I still wouldn't say anything further. But to be honest, when they started talking about Jennifer's family and their parents and so forth, that, that absolutely got to me. And it was, and I was in a bad, in a bad way. I was very emotional and I asked to see my warrant officer who was sitting out in the lobby and they agreed, they let him come in and it was just he and I, and I said very specifically, I said sir, the detectives are asking me questions about things that I do know about. I haven't told them what happened, but I don't know what to do. And he said, tell me what happened. So I explained to him exactly what happened that night. And he said, stay right here, I'm going to go in and try to call the JAG officer and I'll be back. So he, he comes back in about 15 minutes later, he says, look, I couldn't. The JAG officer said he could not help us out in this because it's an out, it's an off base matter. However, the detectives are going to come in here and they're going to ask you five questions. And I want you to answer those five questions truthfully. And I said, are you sure that's what I'm to do? And he said yes. I took it as a direct order from my superior officer. The detectives came in, they asked me five questions. So what I didn't know is whatever transpired outside that door. So it sounds kind of crazy even still today that JAG officer couldn't help out in this matter. And this is my, this is my legal advice I'm receiving is from my command, my, my superior officer. And, and I'm taking it as a direct order and I'm now relieved of that burden. I've told him exactly what happened and he's given me the order to answer the detectives questions, the five questions that they're asking. And, and I followed his order. You know, yeah,
- [52:02]
David Rutherford
obviously, you know, you, you told everybody what's happened, you led the authorities back to the body, they were able to end the search and, and begin. But that's when things began to, I really go arrive for You, I would imagine, how quickly did they put you in custody and how soon did you know, wait a minute, this, this is going to be. This is a lot worse than what I imagined was going to happen by my so admitting.
- [52:40]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. So what had happened is they. I even answering the detectives questions. I even agreed to try to draw out a map of where I believe that Jennifer's body was at. Ultimately it wasn't very accurate, even though I was kind of fashioned myself as a part time cartographer and for the teams. Right. But so, but they took that map and they went in the other room and they said, look at here, Billy Brown, we know the whole story. Your buddy just rolled on you. He told us everything and you're going down, you're probably going to get the death penalty. And, and that stung him. And as he, as he says today, he felt like what I broke the seal code and therefore I broke the code. Therefore I deserved to go down with him. Right. So he, he then tells the detectives a story that puts me into the crime with him. Right. That I was party to his crime. That he did. And in his. In. In later as he's, you know, become a Christian and confessed exactly what had happened. He says today, he says that he knew, he knew that the detectives would rather have two than one. Right. And so he whipped up a story on the spot and he included me into his crime. It's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's unfortunate. Number one, if he would have just told the truth from beginning, they would not have arrested me, period. They would not have arrested me. At most my role, which was an accessory after the fact of his crime. Right. And in 1995, that role was punishable by up to 12 months in prison. I'm sorry, 12 months in jail, not prison. 12 months in jail. Up to is a misdemeanor crime. But instead he flips this story, right? And even when they, even when they, they're like, look, this is, you got to give us some kind of evidence that what you're saying is true. He couldn't give them anything. So, so he tells them that, that I have explosives back home in Indiana, right? Because what else can he. Can he tell them, right? As if this is some kind of, I don't know, whatever evidence for this, this case, which is ridiculous. So, so in the meantime, I'm attend myself one of the detectives and the warrant officer. We are driving off to go physically look for Jennifer's body. And we get to the spot approximately we separate. The three of us separate in the woods, and we come through the woods. And it was the detectives that actually come upon her body. From that point, they called in the forensics to come in to do their business. And my warrant officer and I went back to the base, right? This is up at 4 J.P. hill. When there, some of the officers told me, look, we think that it's best that you get a lawyer. And I'm like, do you really feel like I need a lawyer? This is how naive I am at the time.
- [55:58]
David Rutherford
Wow.
- [55:58]
Dusty Turner
I'm like, you think I'd really need a lawyer? And they're like, yeah. And so they actually found a lawyer that had. Had worked with the teams a bit and hooked me up with them. And so he wanted me to be in his office back in Virginia beach the next day at noon. Meanwhile, My commanding officer, Tui from Team 4, wanted me to be back at the. At the. At the compound to have a discussion the next morning. And so we rode back the next morning. Now, in the meantime, Billy Brown's already been arrested, right? He's arrested, he's told his stories. And. And so I'm. I'm. I'm back at Team 4 compound, and I'm sitting in a conference room waiting for Commander Tui to come in to have a discussion, to debrief him on exactly what had happened, right? He comes in and he's shaking his head, and, you know, he says that. He says, turner, the NIS are here to place you under arrest. And so I didn't make it to the lawyer's office. The. The NIS guys come in. They had me change out of my fatigues into civilian clothes. They handcuffed me there on the Team 4 compound and walked me out, out. And they drove me to the. To the edge of the base and handed me over to the Virginia Beach Police Department. I went from there to. To the police department, and from that point, my family was notified. You know, I had. I had talked to my mother the night before after all this had gone down, and. And I. I didn't want to tell her too much, but I was, you know, in a. In a very emotional way, and I explained to her that I had witnessed a very horrible crime and. And that I thought that it might be, you know, that I might have to testify against somebody. But even in the moment, I was still thinking that, you know, I answered the questions of detectives. I was still felt duty bound to Billy Brown to an extent. And so I felt like that I would. And I had known justice Involvement before all this. So I was totally ignorant on everything dealing with criminal justice system. But I assumed that maybe I would end up, you know, testifying at a trial about what Billy Brown had done. And I still in my mind was thinking, well, I could still, you know, kind of explain that he, what he did was an accident, that he didn't really mean to do it, or, you know, something to that extent. Right. But in reality he was, he was completely drunk out of his mind and he just snapped. Right.
- [58:35]
David Rutherford
Wow. Did you ever get out of jail from the moment you were taken by Virginia Beach? Please.
- [58:43]
Dusty Turner
No, I, when I, that day I was arrested and until March 5th last month, I've been incarcerated.
- [58:59]
David Rutherford
All right, let me just try and process this. So you, you're on top of the world. You go out, you're back off on the weekends from AP Hill grinding. You meet a beautiful girl, you guys hit it off, you're gonna go get something to eat or hang out a little more. He gets in the car, he snaps, kills her, forces you to bury, you know, to get rid of the body. You, you're burdened with this. You confess, you, you think you're doing the right thing. You're. Next thing you know, you're in jail. And then the Virginia Beach DA gets a hold of this case and how quickly because, and there's, there's a lot of, a lot of stories that have been done. There's a documentary about the experience which is phenomenal. I recommend people watch it. It. What time in the process of the arraignments, the, the pre trial discovery, did you begin to realize, wow, I, I'm in a very difficult situation and it doesn't look like there's an advocate on my behalf or that the evidence has been, you know, obviously they didn't allow the evidence of the size of your car that fit Brown's story about you being involved in killing her. And you know, you guys are six foot three. That was the thing for me. You know, there's this insane piece of evidence that isn't admitted. What, what moment were you like this? This is not going at, in, in any direction that's going to benefit me.
- [60:46]
Dusty Turner
So I was, I was very naive. Right. And throughout this entire ordeal, especially early on, I, I did assume that just the truth of the matter would, you know, would come out and anything that I was culpable for that, that I would be, you know, say, found guilty of or to, to pay for. Right. So even up until the last moment of the trial, I assumed that the jury would Come back and say, you know, the man's not guilty of a murder and abduction. I did not committed a murder. And reduction. Right, so, so even though there were some concerning things during the trial, like they would do things dealing with the, like, since there was no physical evidence against me, they had to build a circumstantial case against me. Me. Right, and what did that look like? How do you build a circumstantial case to, to make a, a young kid like me look like I would be the type of person that would do something like that. Right? And so they twisted a lot of just normal things. They twisted them to make them look bad. You know, even, even, even a evaluation I did from Puerto Rico when we were there doing the, the dive training and one of our instructors was like, hey, look, y' all do this evaluation. Put some, you know, some real stuff in there. But it's so and so is going to read it. So make it, you know, you can add a little comedy to it or whatever. And I, I put something in there about, you know, if, if things don't start adjusting that this hairy chested frogman is going to find a new job or you know, something stupid like that. I don't even have hair on my chest today. Right? It was a joke. It was a joke. But they use stuff like that and they twist it to make it seem like it's diabolical or, you know, it's, it's malevolent. And, and that's what the prosecutors do, right? Just to try to, they're trying their hardest to try to get a conviction. Not because it's the right thing to do. It's not because it's just, it's because that's, that's their goal, right? They're just trying to get a conviction. And the prosecutor, they, that, that prosecuted me, I'm not the only wrongful conviction that he's gotten. He's gotten others too. And he went, he, he told the media that. When asked about that, he said, well, he said, I don't lose any sleep about it because ultimately I'm not the one who convicts him. You know, I'm just the one presenting the case. So this son of a, this son of a. And, and I mean think about this. That some doesn't, he doesn't lose no sleep about wrongfully convicting people, right? Because he feels like he just passes it on the responsibility. Well, it was the jury that actually did it. I just presented the case. Doesn't bother me at all.
- [63:41]
David Rutherford
You know, it's Staggering. I, I can't even, I mean, I can because I, you know, my old man was an attorney for 55 years and the amount of, of cases his firm, you know, loss because of just the courts and the manipulation of evidence or whatever it is. You know, somebody has a better argument or a better, you know, they're, whatever it is, and you're, you, your whole life changes, right. For the worse. Because, you know, you're at the mercy of an attorney who is gonna be your advocate. And if the advocate that, you know, has any is a disenfranchised with the case or isn't all in or whatever it is, like he has a bad day, right. He misses an objection or whatever. It's like the next thing you Knew, you're spending 30 years in jail. Wrongfully accused. Can we jump? Obviously, you, you were convicted. You were convicted for longer than, than Brown was, right? I think you got, he got 70 years, you got 85 years. That, that's astonishing to me. And then, but talk about the moment where you've, he finally decided to come clean. Did that create a false hope in you did? Or were you like, what was that whole experience going back through it again like that?
- [65:07]
Dusty Turner
Yeah, so I didn't know about his confession for two years after he confessed. Right. He had become, yeah, he had become a Christian. And I feel like in hindsight that that's, he had to, in order to, you know, to be able to relieve himself of the burden of, of not only murdering an innocent young lady for. No, just, I mean, just, just out of just, you know, psychopathy, you know, it. But then, and then he, and then he blames the crime on, on me on his, on a swim buddy, and then watches me go down with him and watches and sees is to the extent possible my family suffering through all that, right? And this guy says now he, he says he, he literally thought that I would be in jail for two weeks before the authorities realized what had actually happened. That's what he thought.
- [66:08]
David Rutherford
Oh, my gosh.
- [66:09]
Dusty Turner
That's what he thought. That's what he thought. God. And so I, I, I'm sorry, I don't even remember the question. You had asked me about the question.
- [66:17]
David Rutherford
The question is like, all right, he goes on trial again. He admits openly confession. You must have been like, all right, that's it. Let me out, right? Let's go.
- [66:30]
Dusty Turner
Yeah, so, So I find out two years later, right? His attorney told him, when he, when he confessed to his family and to his attorney, his attorney told him to shut the up, right? Because he felt like his attorney convinced him that he still has a chance of something with his appeals, right? So he did. He just shut up. He just. He asked his attorney initially to take the information to a judge, right? And expecting that, you know, whatever, but. But then he just stayed silent after that. And the only reason I found out two years later is I got transferred to another prison. And a guy approached me who was one of Billy Brown's Christian brothers. And he approaches me and says, oh, he said, man, he said, I know who you are. You know, God's got great things in store for you. This was 2002, right?
- [67:24]
David Rutherford
Oh, my God.
- [67:25]
Dusty Turner
This was 2002. And. And so he's like, you know, Billy Brown's a changed man. He's a changed man. He's. He's. He's found God. He's confessed to his family. He's confessed to his attorney. You know, he's open about what he did, and he's, you know, whatever. And so I just took that information and I called my mother and. And told her about it. And she ended up, you know, finding an attorney where he was close by, where he was at in prison, and sent an attorney up there to get his. Get his. His confession on. On audio. And then later, he signed an affidavit of, you know, what he had done. And of course, I assumed that would help, you know, my case did not require his freaking confession. That's another thing to know what happened. It doesn't require. It doesn't never require his confession, right? But with this confession, the confession of the man who murdered this young girl, this young woman, you know, who. Who. The only reason I went to prison is because he told a different story. And that's it. That's the only reason I went to prison. He told a different story, right? And so now he confesses. And. And so, you know, I tried to first appeal. There was no legal avenues for me to get back into court, right? At the time, there was zero legal avenues to get back into court. So I filed a petition for a pardon through the governor. And I really expected, you know, I hoped and I expected that he was going to give me a pardon because the truth of exactly what had happened is now out as. It's as plain as can be any. And so also in the mid. In the midst of that, they did pass a new law in Virginia. And, you know, we could go down a rabbit hole with all this, but they passed a new law in Virginia which. Which allowed for me to file a writ of actual innocence. I Later became the first person ever in the history of Virginia to be granted the writ of actual innocence from the court of appeals, right. Which is non biological evidence because the DNA, unfortunately there's no DNA in my case, right? DNA could have cleared me years ago. There is no DNA. So they had been clearing DNA wrongful convictions in the state of Virginia now at that point for a decade, right. They had been going back through and seeing how many people were wrongfully convicted because they had DNA evidence, right? And there was quite a few of them and I knew quite a few of them while I was incarcerated, but my case had no DNA evidence. So we. So this is the first opportunity to go to the court of appeals on a writ of actual innocence. We went back to this, to the court, the circuit court, the same court where I was convicted, because they needed to know if Billy Brown's confession was true, right. If it's credible. And so we did. We went through a couple days of testimony. He testified for like four hours, as did I and others. And the judge went thoroughly through the record for a month and he came back and he said Dusty Turner had no role in the crime. He had no role in the murder or in the restraining of the victim, right. That led to the court of appeals to grant me the writ of actual innocence. The first person in the state of Virginia to be granted the writ of actual innocence for an abduction and a murder charge which I did not commit. And they agreed. However, the Attorney General for, for whatever reason, he appealed it, right? I was going to be out. That was 2008. I was already giving my stuff away in prison to other prisoners because I knew I was about to home within a matter of days. 2008. Instead the Attorney general appealed it, which was his right to do. They created a new theory under, under the law at the time, they could do it, right? They created a brand new theory that a jury could believe that there was still guilt on my part even with the credible truthful confession of the actual murderer, right? It's insane. The whole thing is absolutely insane. And the more you look at it, the more you, you'll be amazed at it.
- [71:49]
Sponsor/Ad Reader
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index, and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis. Not so someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures the following
- [72:50]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [73:51]
Martha Stewart
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- [75:02]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [75:33]
David Rutherford
I, I just, I. Every time I, I look at it and I listen and I hear. And now hearing it from you, it's just, it's overwhelming to think because what you say 2002, two years to find out, 2008 writ of innocence, 2000, what? Your next year in 2020, you know, and it's like, what, What, Why? Let me ask you, why do you think the state of Virginia did not want to let you out of prison?
- [76:11]
Dusty Turner
Great question. So I watched and witnessed a handful of wrongfully convicted men in the state of Virginia go through pains and years and years and decades trying to get exonerated. And I watched many of them get exonerated right up to just in the last couple years. I'm seeing him zone, or these are guys I knew in prison, right. And I'm not going to say it's a, it's a, it's an overwhelming. I'm not going to say it's a huge number, but how many wrongfully convicted people is, is, is, is a small amount of number, right? I mean, there's guys that I knew that spent 40 freaking years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. 40 freaking years in prison. And I know a list of guys in this state and it's not hard to find that list of guys going back to the 80s, because before then I think it was probably impossible to get exonerated. But a list of guys going back to the 80s who were exonerated just in the state of Virginia, not including others. But my point is that in each one of those cases, the Commonwealth fought tooth and nail. They fought so freaking hard to preserve that conviction, even when their innocence was obvious. Right? And look at any, you can look at any case out there in which, it's a wrongful conviction. And see how hard that state, and especially the state of Virginia fought to keep them people in prison. It's sick. It's sick.
- [77:45]
David Rutherford
It is sick. It's almost like. It's almost like this, this. And I think we see this across society, but in particular in government organizations. The, the entrenched, insidious reluctance to admit you made a mistake.
- [78:01]
Dusty Turner
Absolutely.
- [78:02]
David Rutherford
You were wrong.
- [78:03]
Dusty Turner
Yeah, right.
- [78:04]
David Rutherford
Like, you know, we don't make mistakes. We're, we're the government, you know, and when we see that just perpetually, almost in all the corruption and all the other stuff, just nobody wants to admit they made a mistake. And it's like, what the hell is this about? And it's, you know, and in your case and these other people's cases, it's at the expense of people's lives. Right. I mean, you spent 30 years incarcerated knowing you were innocent. And I think, you know, for me, one of the most remarkable aspects of it. Maybe you could just touch a little bit before we wrap it up here.
- [78:43]
Dusty Turner
Yeah.
- [78:43]
David Rutherford
Maybe you could just touch about. What do you do in those moments? And I know this is a monstrous question, and I would love to have you back on to only talk about the motivational construct or foundation you built through your belief systems that were enabled. And I've heard people talk. You talked about Dr. Phil, talked about Man's Search for Meaning. That's certain. A book that's had a huge impact on me. But I'm sure there's a whole myriad. But if you could just briefly, just what keeps you going every day knowing you're, you're, you're there and you're innocent.
- [79:24]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. There's a, a handful of things, certainly, that kept me going and. Right. I'll tell you, it's. You would have, you would have done the same. Right?
- [79:36]
David Rutherford
I don't know, man.
- [79:38]
Dusty Turner
You would have. No. Explain why.
- [79:40]
David Rutherford
It's very difficult, man. Yeah, I, I, I, I wish. I hope I have what you have inside you in some capacity, but you do. Don't.
- [79:49]
Dusty Turner
Yeah.
- [79:49]
David Rutherford
Don't know.
- [79:50]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. But I do know. I do know because it's the same grit and determination that got you and I through the toughest training perhaps in the world is the same grit and determination that got me through 30 years and seven months of a wrongful conviction, imprisonment. I went through hell. Let me tell you something. I went through hell. You know, the, the, what I went through on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. It's, it's, it's hell week every day. You know what I mean? Every day. Yeah, it's. It was a lot, right? It's a lot. But, you know, it's a lot for. Right. Anyone in that, in incarcerated and what it is for a person who doesn't belong there is even more. Right. But I drew strength from a lot of things. I drew strength from knowing, you know, who I was as a person, who I was as a man who had it in me to get through that same training. Right. And to get to the point where I was at, I had a tremendous support system. Unfortunately, that support system was non existent from the community. Non existent, right. I say non existent. There were a small couple, handful. I mean, literally a couple guys. One of them happened to be the man who investigated my case for the SEAL Teams, right. He, of all people, he who investigated my case for the SEAL Teams was one of my strongest supporters, right. Wow. Coming out of the community, right. Because he knew, he, he went in and looked meticulously at exactly what had happened. And so he knew, he knew, you know, all the details, right. And so, but it's, it's people like him. But it's also, you know, my family, those who have known me all my life, that knew that there's no way I could have committed to crimes that they convicted me of. They've known that people who knew me always knew that. Even people in the teams knew that. People that I trained with knew that, that people who knew me and knew Billy Brown, they didn't even question it. But if I'm not mistaken, they were told very specifically, have no communications. They said specifically to you, billy Brown and Dustin Turner are dead. Do not attempt to have any conversation with their family or them. Right. They're dead to you. Right? And they, and, and this brings up the point that they always, and I say they, whoever they is, have linked myself and Billy Brown as almost the same freaking people together. Right? As if we were the same people and did the same things from day one. It was always Turner Brown, Turner Brown, Turner Brown. Am I right?
- [83:08]
David Rutherford
That's what we were fed.
- [83:09]
Dusty Turner
Yeah. Yeah.
- [83:12]
David Rutherford
I just, I, I just, I just realized that it would be, it would be, I don't know, it would be unjust to try and encapsulate what you learned in that cell because in, in, in the remainder of time we have. So I'm just not going to do it. So I'm going to beg you to come back on to specifically talk, talk about the regiment, the mental, the emotional, your spiritual regimen that got you through, if that's okay. Because I just, it'd be, it'd be a travesty if I, if, if I didn't explore that more with my audience. As a person that has just really spent, you know, the last, you know, x amount of years in my life trying to understand the power of pain and what it can do to shape us into the people we want to become. I think, think how you embody that is so unique, but also just piercing in terms of it's, it's, it's how profound it is. So if you can just, if you don't mind, I'd love to have you back. So maybe we can end on, on this. What do you have in your heart right now moving forward? And I, obviously it's, it's too soon to even begin to remotely say, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? You know, you. I don't want to do that either. We will get in that. But, like, what do you have in your heart right now that you want people to begin to understand?
- [84:49]
Dusty Turner
Well, the first thing I thought of is, is I feel like I've been almost angry during this entire interview. Right. And, and I really appreciate you having me on here because you were the first team guy who, who has, who's had me on it with an interview and allow me to talk about and talk to. And I know there are a lot of community guys that, that follow you and, and that may be interested in, in the story and what had actually happened and maybe they didn't know the whole truth of what happened, you know, and maybe, maybe this will, will help them understand and maybe even change their mind or maybe put themselves in my shoes. A lot of people I know can't understand maybe why I made the decisions I made. But of all people, the team guys, especially from back in, you know, the 90s, before there were cell phones, before 9, 11. You know, if they knew what, what if they knew what happened to me and the position I was in and the decisions I had to make and why I made those, those decisions times, I don't think that they would, they would understand. You know, they would understand that. But with that said too, I feel like I've been a bit almost angry at this in this interview.
- [86:12]
David Rutherford
Yeah. And that's. I'm so sorry. It's not what I. It's not what I wanted to happen at all.
- [86:17]
Dusty Turner
It's not you.
- [86:19]
David Rutherford
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know that. But I just, man, I. There's so much power in your words, and that's why I want To. I want to create another space, right, where we can really just focus on the power of what you were able to build in your heart, your mind. So, you know, again, this is not entirely. I just want it. I wanted to just approach all of the, the. Yeah, that, that is just out there and just from your lips to their ears to give a voice to address that specifically first. And then, you know, and then I think, you know, we can maybe in a couple weeks have you come back and, and do the other.
- [87:05]
Dusty Turner
That sounds great. And, and I'm not, I'm not sitting around angry though, right? I'm. I'm enjoying. Listen, listen. I'm enjoying every freaking moment more than you can imagine. More you can understand and anybody can understand, man. Every little thing. Every little thing is. Is a joy to me. Every little thing is a joy to me. Right? Every experience is a joy. And, you know, I'm, I'm not looking backwards, right? I'm not. I'm truly. I'm living in the moment and I'm looking forward and I'm not going to let this. What is, what has happened to me, you know, I'm not going to sit around, be the victim. I'm gonna. I'm gonna grasp life, life by the balls and I'm going to take off running and I'm. You know what I mean? I'm not going to stop. I'm. I'm moving forward and, and I'm loving it. I'm loving every day and every moment and every moment under the sun. It's just, it's glorious. You know what I mean? And that's what I'm doing. That's, that's my attitude. I'm taking on. Just like you mentioned, Victor Frankel, you know, I can take any damn attitude I want to take, and I'm free to do that, and I've always been free to do that. And, and this is the attitude I'm taking forward. I'm not angry. I'm moving forward. You know what I mean? I hate that son of a. That, that is responsible for putting me in here. And I, and I have a lot of anger towards a lot of others, but that's not how I'm living. I'm living. I'm living joyfully.
- [88:23]
David Rutherford
Amen.
- [88:24]
Dusty Turner
Yeah.
- [88:24]
David Rutherford
Dusty Turner, where can people follow you and watch this journey, this new journey of life, and how can they support you?
- [88:34]
Dusty Turner
Well, some of my, my advocates who have been great and supported me along the ways, I wouldn't be out here if it wasn't for them. I truly Wouldn't, I swear to you, if it wasn't for them fighting for me every goddamn day, I wouldn't be here here. I swear to you. They fought, you know, and so they've got a. They got. I'm not even allowed to have social media, right? I'm under these restrictions still today, and I'm still fighting, right? I'm still fighting for my ultimate freedom. But they've got social media at Free Dusty Turner website. You know, they're updating it now, The Free Dusty website.org, i think. Free Dusty.org and there's, you know, there's. I don't know how much the petition site change.org is even meaningful anymore. And it might be. Hey, I got to tell you this. Guess who I met this morning? Randomly. Randomly. Governor. Virginia Governor Ralph Northam. I just. I'm eating breakfast and I look over and I'm like that. He looks familiar. His wife looks familiar.
- [89:36]
David Rutherford
Oh, my gosh.
- [89:38]
Dusty Turner
So what do you think? I did? Did? I'm like, hey, hey, Governor, do you
- [89:42]
David Rutherford
know who I am?
- [89:45]
Dusty Turner
That's exactly what I did. I said, yeah. And because he was supposed to grant me clemency back in 2020.
- [89:51]
David Rutherford
I know.
- [89:52]
Dusty Turner
In 2020, he was supposed to grant me clemency. And. Yeah. Anyway, so I didn't hold it against him. I said, hey, Dr. Northam, how you doing? And I. And introduced myself. We had a long guess what he did. He gave me his personal phone number, and he said, look, man, if you, you know, anything you need, call me, you know what I mean? I'm here for real. Just give me a call. And so that's cool. You know what I mean? That was pretty cool, right?
- [90:18]
David Rutherford
Yeah, it's really cool. It's really cool.
- [90:20]
Dusty Turner
Yeah.
- [90:22]
David Rutherford
All right, Dusty, thank you so much for your time. And. And I just. I pray for you and your family's peace and just that you, like you said, keep living in the moment and keep experiencing everything. And I'm really, really looking forward to having you back on to talk about what that mindset and that emotional state was like to get through that. 30 years.
- [90:43]
Dusty Turner
Absolutely. Rudd, I appreciate. You.
- [90:55]
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- [92:07]
David Rutherford
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- [92:37]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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