David Rutherford Show: 840,000 Americans Killed by the Covid Vaccine — The Suppressed Science

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – David Rutherford Show: "840,000 Americans Killed by the Covid Vaccine — The Suppressed Science"

Date: March 27, 2026
Guest: Nick Holscher, epidemiologist with the McCullough Foundation
Host: David Rutherford

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Overview

This episode centers on the controversial claim that the COVID-19 vaccines led to catastrophic harm, with guest Nick Holscher (epidemiologist and outspoken critic of the vaccines) joining David Rutherford for a deep dive. Holscher presents the argument that the COVID-19 vaccination program constituted a disastrous "medical experiment" responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths and a broad spectrum of adverse health outcomes. The discussion navigates the history of mRNA technology, the alleged suppression of data, the psychological barriers to public acknowledgment, and the need for global policy and legislative change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scale of Alleged Harm from COVID-19 Vaccines

• Holscher claims the COVID vaccines were "the most detrimental catastrophic medical experiment in history," citing studies that document severe adverse events, including deaths, cancers, strokes, and cardiac incidents.
• He draws comparisons between purported vaccine death tolls and the combined US combat fatalities in World Wars and Vietnam.
  • "[Thousands] upon thousands of studies documenting serious adverse events. Deaths, cancers, strokes, heart attacks, cardiac arrests from these shots." — Nick Holscher (03:16)
• He references multiple sources and methods for estimating vaccine deaths:
  • Florida Surgeon General estimate: 470,000 (Pfizer recipients died at 37% higher rates than Moderna).
  • VAERS data, with underreporting adjustment: ~600,000 deaths.
  • CDC WONDER data (excess deaths not from COVID): ~840,000 deaths.
  • "These death toll estimates are rivaling combat fatalities of World War I, World War II, Vietnam and the Iraq War combined." — Nick Holscher (07:04)
  • Timestamp: [05:01]–[07:21]

Early Suspicion & Timeline of Vaccine Rollout

• Rutherford recounts his past as a medic and how his skepticism of the COVID vaccine was sparked by its rollout and perceived pressure to comply.
  • "In 2021...and that's essentially what I was hearing is shut up and take it. That immediately...made me start to contemplate. Alright, there's some type of manipulation going on..." — David Rutherford (07:21)
• Holscher traces his own concern back to the pre-pandemic era, where he followed mRNA technology development and gain-of-function research.
  • He references work by Ralph Baric, US-China collaboration, and Event 201, suggesting the pandemic and vaccine response were long-planned.
  • Timeline: [08:25]–[14:56]
  • "This whole thing appears to have been planned... Event 201... with all of the corporation head CEOs basically to say, you know, this is what we're doing." — Nick Holscher (13:30)

The Nature of mRNA Technology

• Holscher emphasizes mRNA shots are not "vaccines" but gene therapies, delivering genetic material throughout the body.
  • "It's a lipid nanoparticle, and inside ... is modified messenger RNA, which is genetic material that gives your body instructions to make proteins... This is a gene therapy. It goes into all of your organ systems ... and your body becomes a non human protein factory." — Nick Holscher (15:31)
  • Claims redefining 'vaccine' was a PR move to increase acceptance.
  • Timestamp: [15:31]–[16:58]

Documented Adverse Events & Associations

• Myocarditis and Cardiac Issues
  • Strong evidence from autopsies and studies that mRNA vaccines cause heart inflammation and fatal myocarditis, especially in young males.
  • "[Public health agencies] claim that it's mild and transient myocarditis. It's not. It can result in irreversible heart scarring. Heart scarring does not go away." — Nick Holscher (24:17)
  • Found micro-scarring only detectable by microscope, contributing to sudden deaths.
• Neurological and Psychiatric Effects
  • Vaccines associated with brain clots, demyelination, prion diseases, and psychiatric effects including suicidal and homicidal ideation.
  • "A study by OTA and colleagues found the vaccine spike protein and mRNA in the brains of hemorrhagic stroke patients." — Nick Holscher (27:20)
• Cancer ('Turbo Cancer')
  • Holscher cites >100 studies and CDC data for excess cancer deaths post-vaccine.
  • Population studies show increased risk of multiple cancers in vaccinated individuals.
  • Recent case: detection of vaccine-related DNA in a 31-year-old’s tumor genome.
  • "We found within chromosome 19 was a 20 base pair segment of the DNA plasmid from the manufacturing process literally fused into that chromosome." — Nick Holscher (33:25)
  • Timestamp: [31:06]–[34:22]

Policy Pushback, Legislative Action, and Public Reaction

• Efforts in State Legislatures

  • Holscher testifies to "shock" among lawmakers when confronted with data on mRNA vaccine harms.
  • Suggests some lawmakers' disbelief is rooted in personal or familial vaccine uptake, or in pharma lobbying.
  • Timestamp: [34:22]–[38:01]

• Global Governance Concerns

  • Concerns about future 'planned pandemics', the WHO pandemic treaty, gain-of-function research, and lack of accountability for alleged pandemic crimes.
  • "Because of that, the same individuals can do the same thing. And there's over 3,600 bio laboratories, BSL or high containment bio labs across the globe...it would be very easy for them to simply cook up some monster pathogen." — Nick Holscher (41:20)
  • Predicts future deployment of "microneedle patch" vaccines with traceable technology.

• Potential Solutions

  • Advocates a global moratorium on gain-of-function research and destruction of engineered pathogens.
  • Suggests US needs to lead by banning such research domestically and investigating funding organizations like the Gates Foundation.
  • Timestamp: [47:31]–[50:20]

Psychological Barriers and Societal Impacts

• Denial & Cognitive Dissonance
  • Holscher references a survey claiming 56% of Americans believe vaccines caused mass deaths, but notes psychological barriers for the remainder.
  • "It's extremely difficult for them to come to terms, terms with what they may have done to their child, to the grandparent or to themselves." — Nick Holscher (52:02)
  • Blames lack of government and media transparency for slow public reckoning.
• Medical Profession's Complicity
  • Argues doctors and pediatricians who delivered vaccines face their own cognitive block given their role.

Next Steps & Advocacy

• Legislative Initiatives
  • Holscher and McCullough Foundation working to pass Idaho bill banning mRNA COVID shots for children and pregnant women — could be a global first.
• Ongoing Research
  • New studies forthcoming on long-term presence of vaccine-derived materials and excess infant mortality.
  • Continuing focus on bio labs and the impact of childhood vaccinations.
  • Timestamp: [55:36]–[57:45]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The COVID 19 vaccination programs were probably the most detrimental catastrophic medical experiment in history." — Nick Holscher (03:16, 05:01)
• "We have thousands upon thousands of studies documenting serious adverse events." — Nick Holscher (05:07)
• "Myocarditis appears to significantly shorten the lifespan of individuals, unfortunately, because their heart health is not going to be the same as if they did not incur that heart damage." — Nick Holscher (26:08)
• "CDC data indicates that these are likely one of the largest carcinogenic exposures in history." — Nick Holscher (31:22)
• "Right now, 56% of Americans...do believe the COVID shots caused mass deaths. So I think it is the majority now that has gone through the acceptance process... But there's that remaining 40%...in complete denial." — Nick Holscher (52:02)
• "We need this messaging to come from the federal government and from their mainstream news media. That's all some of these individuals watch. And so if they hear it from the people that they trust, they will begin to realize what has happened. But again, that has not happened." — Nick Holscher (53:15)
• "If a person knows there's a bio lab in their backyard, they're going to get pissed. The other thing is if they're kid, you're harming their kid because you lied about something, they're going to get angry." — David Rutherford (57:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:16] – Holscher: COVID vaccines as catastrophic medical experiment
• [05:01]–[07:21] – Death toll estimates and comparative scale
• [08:25]–[14:56] – Early vaccine concerns, gain of function history, Event 201, pandemic planning
• [15:31]–[16:58] – mRNA tech as gene therapy, not vaccine
• [24:17]–[31:06] – Detailed adverse events (heart, brain, psychiatric, cancer)
• [34:22]–[38:01] – Legislative and policymaker reaction
• [40:15]–[43:57] – Global biosecurity concerns, future pandemics, need for moratorium
• [47:31]–[50:20] – How to enact international moratoria, role of NGOs and governments
• [52:02]–[54:23] – Why people struggle to accept info about vaccine harm ("mass psychosis")
• [55:36]–[57:45] – McCullough Foundation’s current advocacy and research

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Tone and Speaker Dynamics

• The tone is assertive, skeptical of establishment narratives, and at times conspiratorial.
• Rutherford offers empathy and personal anecdotes, while Holscher presents a dense stream of alarming claims and scientific jargon aimed at conveying severity.
• Both display deep mistrust of pharmaceutical companies, large NGOs, and government agencies.

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For Further Information

• Nick Holscher on X: @icholsher
• Substack: The Focal Points (thefocalpoints.com), with Dr. Peter McCullough & John Leake

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Note: This summary reflects the claims and narratives put forth by the speakers, not established scientific consensus. For balanced information, consult a variety of expert sources.

Transcript

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[Nick Holscher]

The COVID 19 vaccination programs were probably the most detrimental catastrophic medical experiment in history. And I say that because now we have thousands upon thousands of studies documenting serious adverse events. Deaths, cancers, strokes, heart attacks, cardiac arrests from these shots. These death toll estimates are rivaling combat fatalities of World War I, World War II, Vietnam and the Iraq war combined. So this is a very disastrous, serious situation.

[David Rutherford]

Welcome back to the show everyone. I'm your host, David Rutherford. Today's guest is someone that I've been watching and in particular lately he's been popping up on my X feed and just a unbelievable amount. And it's really pretty shocking the things that he's saying. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome Nick Holscher to the show. He's an epidemiologist from the McCullough foundation and one of the leading advocates in the country and around the world for sharing just how harmful the COVID vaccines were and what to expect in the future. So Nick, welcome to the show, man.

[Nick Holscher]

Thanks for having me.

[David Rutherford]

All right, let's jump right in. All right, I, you know, I. I want to start out with the 800 pound gorilla. How bad was the COVID vaccine and why do we understand provably that it was as bad as we thought it would be?

[Nick Holscher]

The COVID 19 vaccination programs were probably the worst or the most detrimental catastrophic medical experiment in history. And I say that because now we have thousands upon thousands of studies documenting serious adverse events. Deaths, cancers, strokes, heart attacks, cardiac arrests from these shots. And in particular there's now three independent estimates of how many individuals victims died in the United States alone from these shots. It ranges from 450, 70,000 from Pfizer alone. That was based on a study by Florida Surgeon General Joe Ladapo. They found Pfizer recipients died at a 37% higher rate than Moderna recipients. And so just extrapolating that, you get 470,000 deaths, and then we get up to about 600,000 deaths. That is according to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. You know, there's about, about 20,000 reported deaths in the United States from the COVID 19 vaccines in VAERS. But we have to remember, less than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported to VAERS according to a Harvard Lazarus study that was conducted about 10 years ago. And so to be conservative, we multiply that 20,000 by 30. We should be multiplying it by 100 to get that real underreporting factor. But when we Multiply it by 30, we do get around 600,000American deaths from these shots. And then we get up to about 840,000 when we look at what's called the CDC wonder data. This basically shows us that 840,000 people died in excess since 2021, not from COVID 19. So basically, there was only one thing they likely died from, that is the mass vaccination program. So lastly, I just want to say these death toll estimates are rivaling combat fatalities of World War I, World War II, Vietnam and the Iraq War combined. So this is a very disastrous, serious situation.

[David Rutherford]

Well, it's fascinating to me how, you know, and I was a medic and, you know, went through a ton of biological weapons program training and how to prepare and how to treat guys for it. You know, it, it just the idea behind vaccines. And I certainly took my fair share. I don't even know how many anthrax vaccines I took. And I remember, you know, asking my, you know, my senior chief and the medical department at Team One, I was like, hey, what are the studies on this? Is this going to hurt? And she like, shut up and take it. And so in 2021, when these things rolled out, and that's essentially what I was hearing is shut up and take it. That immediately, you know, made me start to contemplate. All right, there's some type of manipulation going on right now. When did you first recognize, like, oh, my God, this is a nefarious program, there's something not right. And what did you do when you, when you started to realize that?

[Nick Holscher]

I realized this was going to be a disaster. Right when the pandemic hit in April, or in, I believe it was January of 2020, it was first announced in China. In fact, I wrote a Reddit post back then saying how they're going to roll out vaccines, mandate them, you'll have to get them to go into stores. And then in April when there was an article, and I believe Popular Mechanics or some other magazine saying, announcing what the new vaccines were going to be, and I read in the article, it says these vaccines are going to give your cells instructions to produce the spike protein. And right then and there I was like, all right, this is it. You know, they're going to end up resulting in mass casualties. This is a terrible idea. And then that's actually what sparked me to go into public health school for epidemiology training so I could start to actually make a difference in combating this disaster. And so I went in there and at U of M, I ended up graduating. And since then I helped contribute to the publication of about now 25 peer reviewed scientific studies looking at the harms of these injections as well as various other things.

[David Rutherford]

Okay, so one of the things, and that's, I mean that's, it's so funny when I do talk to people about COVID and the lead up in the aftermath, whether you're going back to the DARPA initiatives and you go back to Fauci and 1415 and the gain of function stuff, you know, you, this is, this is not something that is, you know, in real time developing. Right. You know, we developed this miracle cure in five seconds. And that's, that's, I think the problem that is really kind of one of these giant hurdles for people emotionally to process that this is, is this program had been laid out a long time ago and then had opportunity for the epidemic when it hit. Depending upon which side of the fence you are. And I think people are still reluctant to believe that we participated in the development of it. We offshored it to Wuhan, we funded it through Eco Health Alliance. Right. They, they're just, they can't cross over that hump. So for my listeners that are still struggling with, with the details, can you kind of give us a timeline of what you all believe Covid was in terms of the coronavirus, how it emerged, how it originated, and then obviously this will shift after that into the MRNA technology as they sold it as a vaccine and what it really is?

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah, definitely. So I believe since the 90s, they've been working on messenger RNA technology for various things. Various studies were conducted, various tests in animals, rats and ferrets, and basically in all the studies it would decimate them. Now there was a few papers published, I believe the year was 2017 or 2016 by Ralph Baric with what's called the Baric Lab where he operates at Chapel Hill University of North Carolina. And what they were doing at the Barrick lab was literally basically making these coronaviruses in the lab and doing gain of function activities. So that was about 10 years ago or more than that. That's just when the paper was published. And so, you know, there is a documented track record of United States researchers, you know, working with this very same pathogen, chimeric coronaviruses. And then so as that development timeline goes on, obviously they offshored to Wuhan, they were collaborating with Wuhan, there was shipments between them. And so honestly, you know, there's some people that think perhaps originated in the United States or there was actually multiple laboratory releases. There's actually a study that documents there is the possibility of some leaks coming out of the Barrick lab. And then. But you know, Wuhan has been pinned as the primary, primary laboratory. But yeah, I don't think it's just Wuhan definitely. It was a United States spearheaded effort there. And then with the MRNA injections they were developing those. I mean they had a plan that DARPA, Adept or was BARDA, DARPA or BARDA, the Adept P3 program. In about 2012, they that the plant, that project was basically to develop pandemic countermeasures using messenger rna. And so yeah, this whole thing appears to have been planned. And then we got up to 2019 with Bill Gates, Gates Foundation, John Hopkins event 201. They were doing a pandemic simulation two months before the pandemic began with all of the corporation head CEOs basically to say, you know, this is what we're doing.

[David Rutherford]

The deputy of the CIA was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nick Holscher]

And then we had the Epstein files came out recently and you know, Epstein, Gates, JP Morgan, all these individuals were working on vaccine profiteering constructs. Back Starting in like 2013, they were discussing pandemic simulations. So you know, we have this whole rabbit hole. And so clearly there was planning activities for a pandemic and there was goals that they appear to have wanted to accomplish. And I don't know how successful they were, but they were successful to some degree. Now birth rates are basically at an all time low in most developed countries.

[David Rutherford]

All right, can you talk about the MRNA technology and what made that so different than other vaccines that had come out before? And you know, obviously with, with Kennedy in there now and changing kind of the vaccine schedule and going after and saying there was no ever safety studies conducted within most of the Vaccines that we had on the vaccine schedule. Why would they pitch it as a vaccine instead of, you know, kind of this delivery technology that it was.

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah, it was never a vaccine. Not even close. The reason they. So what, first of all, what it is, it is a gene transfer technology. It's a gene therapy because what it does is it. So it's a lipid nanoparticle, and inside this lipid nanoparticle, which is toxic by itself by the way, is modified messenger rna, which is genetic material that gives your body instructions to make proteins. So this is a gene therapy. It goes into all of your organ systems, doesn't just stay in the arm, and your body becomes a non human protein factory. Right. So this, this is not vaccination. Vaccination is just injecting, you know, a killed pathogen, inactivated or live attenuated pathogen and that's that. Right. It's not introducing genetic material. So yeah, these are gene therapies, but they labeled them as vaccines because if they didn't, nobody would take them. That's right. You know, they would be afraid to take them. So they basically changed the definition of what a vaccine was and then they could start to claim it was a vaccine. But you know, there's now multiple bills in some state legislatures trying to change the definition of these shots back to gene therapy. What it really is.

[David Rutherford]

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[David Rutherford]

so there have been a tremendous amount of injuries that have become prevalent I think in you know, the consciousness of people and, and again, you know, I, I, you know with event 201 happening in October 19th, right from that moment, I think most likely the, the, the true awakening for people began probably around you know, May, June of, of 20, right. When the lockdown, two weeks to stop the spread the whole narrative and how they were shutting down the ambiguous six feet, the masking. Everybody started to realize this was problematic. It didn't feel right. Right. Because just that natural, I think intuitive sense that hey, some, something's off here. This doesn't make any sense. This is, it's, you know, we close churches in schools, but we leave liquor stores and Walmart open. I think all of that, it's so beyond the pale of what is rational. Right. And I think human beings are pretty, pretty, pretty dialed in when it comes to being able to their bullshit detector and how it starts pinging But I think for me, the real problem as a medic myself was when we started hearing the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis. So I think those were the, the first ones that really started to pop in particular with the least vulnerable age groups. And that was young males. Right. And that was really the moment where I was like, whoa, why are young men having heart conditions? And then all the videos of guys on the spot, the soccer pitch or wherever, just collapsing and we're like, this is not right. What? Can you list the inner injuries in your all's opinion, that are conclusively associated with the vaccine and Covid?

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah, you're right. On myocarditis, we published about six papers on heart conditions with these shots. And it's, it's quite unequivocal. There's two studies, not our studies, but two studies have found the spike protein and messenger RNA in the heart in myocarditis patients and deceased victims. And so we know it does get into the heart. And since that happens, it unfortunately gives the cardiomyocytes, your heart cells and the myocardium the instructions to make these highly pathogenic spike proteins. So once they begin to make them, your own body's going to attack those cells expressing those proteins, resulting in that cardiac inflammation, scarring. That's very important. Our public health agencies claim that it's mild and transient myocarditis. It's not. It can result in irreversible heart scarring. Heart scarring does not go away. And in particular, it can result in micro scars. An autopsy study found that you don't even see those on imaging. You can only see it under a microscope. And so, and these micro scars were found in a sudden adult death syndrome victims. From these shots, they received like six boosters. And there was these literally like tiny little scars resulting in these electrical conduction abnormalities, you know, ventricular tachycardia, eventually cardiac arrest, sudden death. So that's what's happening again. Myocarditis appears to significantly shorten the lifespan of individuals, unfortunately, because their heart health is not going to be the same as if they did not incur that heart damage. And then we could just keep going down. We published the first paper kind of elucidating COVID 19 vaccine induced cardiac arrest. Nobody really talks about cardiac arrest. They just talk about myocarditis. And so, yeah, it's unequivocal. These shots cause heart damage and fatal myocarditis as well. We published an autopsy series where we concluded that COVID 19 vaccine induced myocarditis is fatal, you know, it's not mild. And you know, there's multiple papers documenting case fatality rates of up to 7%. VAERS indicates our vaccine adverse event reporting system indicates, I believe, about a 3% fatality rate. So again, that's not mild, but that's just the heart. And then we have the brain. This one's very worrisome for the cognitive health and psychological health of the entire population. A study by OTA and colleagues found the vaccine spike protein and MRI MRNA in the brains of hemorrhagic stroke patients. So we know it gets into the brain. And we published a few papers looking at vaers and looking at, well, what are these shots doing to people's central nervous system? So we found 146 safety signals that were breached with the central nervous system and psychiatric adverse events. And this includes things like obviously brain clots. I believe that was, it was over a thousand times more likely to be reported with the COVID shots than with the flu shots. And then you have things like demyelination syndrome. So when the myelin sheath on the neurons becomes basically destroyed, resulting in debilitating conditions, transverse myelitis, paralysis, and then you also have things like central nervous system infections. This safety signal was very large. Where it appears the blood brain barrier is becoming disrupted, allowing pathogens, vaccine materials, spike protein to enter the brain, resulting in infections or viral reactivation syndromes in the central nervous system. And then you have things like prion disease. This was about 800 times more likely with the COVID shots compared to the flu shots. Creutzfeldt Jakobs disease, the human equivalent of mad cow disease, is when these misfolded proteins enter the brain. So that's very worrisome. And then we have the psychiatric conditions. And these conditions, the safety signals were breached for homicidal thoughts, homicidal behavior, suicidal behavior, dementia, psychosis, even schizophrenia, depression, sleep disorders.

[David Rutherford]

The one that killed me is I, you know, I have four teenage daughters and in 22 or 20 and a 21, 22 girls, teenage suicide went up, you know, 50%. But there were, they didn't do any breakdown. Like it was just like, oh, these kids want to kill themselves because they were cooped up, up, you know, in home and didn't get to go to school. So they called it some type of, of social issue. Meanwhile, I'm like, I. It just doesn't make sense. Nobody's ever seen, you know, such a short period in a spike of that. So I was always like. And then you heard all the comments about long Covid, you know, Covid malaise, whatever. They, they were trying to frame it as, it's just a component of the, the disease itself. And it just didn't make sense to me at all. So there was a tremendous amount of, of, of psychological challenge. The ones that really kind of got me and I want to just pivot a little bit because I think these, this is the scariest aspect of this being, you know, a gene mutation if you will, was the explosion of cancer or what a lot of people are calling turbo cancer now. I remember Ed Dowd who's you know, former Blackrock, you know, analyst guy, started looking at all cause mortalities post the shot. And then Naomi Wolf started doing the evaluations of, of, of the female breast cancer explosions, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer explosion. Can you talk about that and what you guys are seeing there?

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah, this is now undeniable. There's now over 100 studies that indicate the MRNA injections can induce cancer via 17 distinct mechanisms. And CDC data indicates that these are likely one of the largest carcinogenic exposures in history. There's been about 136,000 excess cancer death in the United States since the mass vaccination programs began, according to the CDC wonder data. And two population studies came out last year that with over 8.7 million people combined in both of them, one was in Italy and one was in South Korea. And they compared the vaccinated to the unvaccinated. And the vaccinated suffered increased risks of seven major cancers and overall cancer hospitalizations. So they had increased risks of colorectal, thyroid, prostate, breast, gastric cancer. And so all these cancers were higher in the vaccinated. So we know it's in the population data. And then recently a systematic review came out in the journal Onco Target that found over 300 peer reviewed confirmed turbo cancer cases documented in the peer reviewed literature. These people get these shots and then sometimes a day, a week, sometimes a month later they'll have these massive tumors and sometimes rare cancers, leukemias, lymphomas, you know, solid tumor cancers. And you know, it's basically was, it's an absolute disaster. So we know it's happening clinically in these documented case reports, we know it's happening at the population level and we know it's happening at the mechanistic level. We recently published a paper documenting the first instance of genomic integration in a stage four bladder cancer patient. She received three mRNA injections on rapidly developed stage four bladder cancer. She was only 31 years old. So 31 year olds are not supposed to get turbo bladder cancer. And we looked in her circulating tumor DNA and we found within chromosome 19 was a 20 base pair segment of the DNA plasmid from the manufacturing process literally fused into that chromosome. So it went from human to vaccine to human. And that was in this tumor DNA. So it appears that resulted in this transcriptomic chaos or this gene expression disruption resulting in this malignant growth that's spread throughout our body. And there's many other mechanisms we could go through hyper inflammation, turning off tumor suppressor genes p53 and BRCA and immune system dysregulation, exhausting your T cells which are supposed to fight off cancer. But the shots appear to exhaust those T cells so you basically are left defenseless, Man.

[David Rutherford]

Nick, I hear you. One. It's just one. It's impressive just the magnitude of knowledge that you have and what your, your team is doing, but it's so depressing. It's so depressing to begin to one. Just how many millions of families have been affected by this around the world? Right. 70% of the Earth's population was exposed to it. I'm not sure what the exact numbers on people who received a variation of the vaccine, but it's, it's staggering. It's well over a couple billion. I. I heard. You know, I think the big thing is, you know what I always see when I, when I hear guys like you out there just pounding the drums. Hey, we have been attacked. This is a consolidated. It's a concerted effort to poison the population of the world, not just of the United States, but of the world. And you have put your money where your mouth is. You've gone in front of multiple state and federal congressional hearings. And I watched you testify for The Idaho bill S. 1356 on the harms of the COVID injections. It. When you're in those moments and you're talking to lawmakers, whether it's state or federal, whatever it is, what's the reaction that, that they're getting? Do they have any understanding of the depths of how catastrophic this has been? Or are they in shock? Like, I mean, do you visually see their shock or do they try and come at you and discount you? Like, how do they discredit the. Like, what's the pushback? And then what'. What's the, the normal reaction of just how overwhelming?

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah, well, first I'd say I haven't testified in front of, in front of any federal, federal hearing yet, but Doc McCullough has.

[David Rutherford]

Right, Doc McCullough has. I've seen him with Johnson and everybody, you know, massive amount of times. So yeah.

[Nick Holscher]

Oh yeah, he's gone many times. Yeah, I've gone in multiple state legislatures to testify and usually the reaction is shock. It is shock. You know, you'll see the, you know, sometimes the committee members faces that are going to vote to advance the bill and they just kind of open their eyes very wide and sometimes, you know, they put their hands on their face and I think the reaction is both, you know, surprise, disgust, shock, but also some people just don't want to believe it and they're actually trying to just tune it out because they themselves or maybe family members have taken, you know, six, seven, eight boosters and you know, they don't want to know the risks that they may be facing. And you know, I guess that's understandable for some individuals given the catastrophic harms being uncovered. And then I also think another reason or another reaction is some of these lawmakers representatives don't want to lose their job or maybe they're receiving some money from pharmaceutical companies and thus they just try and reject these bills and just try and say it's not true. And so I think it's a variety

[David Rutherford]

of reactions that makes sense, you know, as, as. And, and we'll come back to that idea of. Because this is the fascinating part for me, I mean, obviously, you know, I've spent a lot of time working with human performance for whether whatever, you know, whether it's pro athletes or operators or business people and you know, getting them to cross the threshold of humility to the place of, of accepting, you know, fundamental truth as opposed to their subjective perception of. We hold on to that so tightly. I want to get your opinion on that at the end, but before we do, you know, you also posted recently, you know, that, you know, the people that, that kind of were at the helm of this are talking again about imminent pandemics we saw last year, I think it was last year, maybe the year before, where the WHO's International Treaty of getting everybody on board to accept their draconian totalitarian control over all pandemic response around the world. You know, there was a pushback on that. Why? What do you feel like is how big is this fight and how far do you think the other side. Because we have seen people like Bill Gates kind of pull back a little bit. I think it's more so his stuff in the Epstein files that, you know, he's afraid of that as opposed to his, you know, insane money printing vaccine programs around the world. But, but what? Do you get a sense that, that those cohorts are, are, have they just taken their licks and they're planning another attack or not even, I shouldn't suggest, or the alleged attack or whatever that is, I'm not suggesting that. But in terms of just their position on pandemics and their position about control, what are your assessments on where we're at right now with these, these groups?

[Nick Holscher]

Right now we're in a dangerous situation because we do obviously now know there's so much evidence that the previous pandemic SARS CoV2 was again planned, manufactured and deployed. And then we had the countermeasures MRNA shots, which possibly is now three bills in the United States classifying them as biological agents and weapons of mass destruction. So now we, we have lots of evidence, you know, suggesting that we were already, you know, basically, I guess I would say attacked, attacked because none of this was natural. None of this was natural. It wouldn't have happened without human intervention. And so we had that. And now nobody's been held accountable, no, not one prosecution for pandemic related crimes. And there's so many of them and some of them like, just as simple as lying under oath like Fauci did. Rand Paul issued some criminal referrals to the doj. They haven't done of thing that's like wide in the open. He just literally lied. And there's not, we can't even get accountability for that. We can't get accountability for the gain of function activities in these bio labs that resulted in a, you know, a pandemic that, you know, injured and killed millions. You know, again, nothing, nobody. And for the MRNA shots, for lying to the public that they stay in the arm, they, they get go away in like a few days. They're safe. Everybody should take them. Pregnant women should take them. Nothing's happened for making false claims resulting in mass casualties. And so because of that, the same individuals can do the same thing. And there's over 3,600 bio laboratories, BSL or high containment bio labs across the globe, the BSL3 and BSL4. And half of those, over about half of those are in the United states. And about 73% of them, we don't know their locations or what pathogens they're working with. So it would be very easy for them to simply cook up some monster pathogen. It could be a fungus, it could even be a bacterium and just release it and do the same thing and then roll out more countermeasures. It appears this time they may be rolling out microneedle patch so called vaccines. These are dissolvable implants that embed quantum dots in the skin that last for five years for use as vaccine passport, biological vaccine passports. So again, all of this technology, it's all been developed, it's all published in the literature and now they go on TV and say there will be another pandemic and they claim with 100% certainty that there will be. And they almost seem excited to say it. And these were the same individuals that were instrumental in the previous pandemic. And so yeah, what needs to happen to stop this is there should be a global moratorium on any gain of function research and you know, a coordinated effort to literally destroy any and all modified pathogens with pandemic potential that do not exist in nature. They should not be anywhere. They should be destroyed.

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[David Rutherford]

I, I completely agree. I I that's where I get back to. I mean I, you know, I also spent a little time with the Central Intelligence Agency and so I know a psyop when I see it, right? And so the, the reality is I agree with y'. All. I, I, I think we have been coerced into believing something that was wholly inaccurate. I think the overwhelmin of our population in particular woke up. Thank God for Elon Musk buying X and Giving all these Dr. McCullough, you know, Bhattachary, all these incredible, very prominent physicians a voice then to move forward and call this stuff out. But again, I think you've Hit the nail on the head. The problem is we are not getting any single ramification. There's no ramifications for this or anything. And you know, that falls right in the line with, with Epstein and, and corruption in Minnesota and LA and the LA fires and the Hawaii fires. And it's just one continuous, you know, FU to the American people and the population of the world. So how, how would a, an international moratorium work? Like how, how, how does that take place? Is it coordination effort of large NGOs? Is it just a grassroots with a population? How does that, what does that look like?

[Nick Holscher]

It would have to be some sort of intergovernmental treaty to I guess, agree to never do this research again. But, you know, I know that that's, you know, that would be very hard to accomplish for sure, given the geopolitical situations, but that appears to be what would be needed. And we are many ways away from that. I guess we would need to be in a state of global peace in order for that to succeed. So that's many ways away. But at least what we should do is in our own country band. You know, that would be the first step and ensure nothing can get out of our bio laboratories. And none of these NGOs that are funding gain of function activities, all of those organizations should be investigated. We know Gates foundation funded bird flu gain of function research in 2010, gave Yoshihiro Kawaoka at the University of Wisconsin Madison like millions of dollars to make bird flu more transmissible among humans. And so why, you know, this should not be occurring.

[David Rutherford]

I agree wholeheartedly. All right, let's get back. Let's, let's kind of wrap it up with, with the greatest challenge that we're facing. And that's the, the impediment psychologically for human beings to reach that, that kind of threshold of, of action. Right? And where we, we, we stop being the guinea pigs, we stop experiencing the corruption, we stop allowing, you know, unnecessary conflicts and foreign wars or all that stuff, and we push back on this, this process. I think it's completely indicative of the magnitude of what we're facing by the, the vote that Nancy Mays put forward last week on in the House about exposing the sexual abuse claims slush fund in Congress that everybody on both sides voted not to, to push forward because, you know, they don't want to, they don't want to out themselves as being scumbags. So what do you believe? I mean, obviously, as a scientist, I think, you know, there's a lot of the science behind the impact the negative impacts from the shots and the, and the other, the other potentialities of gain of function is you're incredibly clear. But I'm sure you also, your foundation, your team has spent a lot of time on trying to figure out why won't people get cross that threshold and say, you know what, I was lied to, I was duped, it dramatically affected me, it affected my family and it affected my neighbor. Now let's do something.

[Nick Holscher]

Yeah. Yeah. I would say the process of that has happened thankfully to a large number of people. Right now, 56% of Americans, according to a recent Rasmussen survey, do believe the COVID shots caused mass deaths. So I think it is the majority now that has gone through the acceptance process of what has happened to not only them, but their family members. But there's that remaining 40% that may still be in complete denial. And again, I think they are in denial because they got 5, 6, 7, 8 mRNA injections, their family members got it, they told their family members to get it. Or parents gave, you know, four boosters to their little babies, their little children, and they do not. It's extremely difficult for them to come to terms, terms with what they may have done to their child, to the grandparent or to themselves. And so it's going to take some more time and more exposure. But again that is the minority now. But I think what needs to happen to accelerate that process is we need this messaging to come from the federal government and from their mainstream news media. That's all some of these individuals watch. And so if they hear it from the people that they trust, they will begin to realize what has happened. But again that has not happened. That has not happened. Even the current HHS administration has not been fully transparent on what these Covid shots have done to people, unfortunately. And they're still being given to six month old babies. So yeah, it's a big process. And then particularly doctors that are still administering these, pediatricians that are giving these, they are in a state of under mass psychosis as well because they have given these shots to probably now thousands upon thousands of patients or children and they do not want to admit at what they may have done to their own patients.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, I, I, you know, I, it's interesting, you know, you, you what over time you become indoctrinated into a concept. Right. And, and, and I think, you know, that in and of itself there was no greater deliverable of that propaganda. And trust the science, right. I think it was so simple, it was so brilliant. You know, trust the people that you allowed These positions. And, and I think what, what people, the irony in it is, you know, in one sentence they'll say, you know, oh yeah, get the shot, it's great. And the next they'll be like, you know, the government killed Kennedy, you know, and you're like, well, they're the same thing. Why aren't you, why aren't you able to cross those thresholds? And it's, it's, it's, you know, that psychosis is, is, is tough to break down. Nick, moving forward, what is your initiative to see happen in the short term? And then as an entire, in terms of the McCullough foundation, what are y' all focused on and what, what can we expect next from you guys?

[Nick Holscher]

Well, the short term legislative goal that is a primary goal at the moment is like you mentioned earlier, we recently testified at that Idaho state Senate for a bill that would ban the MRNA injections for at least children and pregnant women. And since that has passed the committee hearing with a majority vote, it will now hopefully go to the Senate floor and the House floor and hopefully get put into law. So we are going to be supporting that and hopefully helping to get the first moratorium bill passed in the United States, actually in the world. I'm not aware of any bill that has passed that has banned or put a moratorium on the COVID shots, even for certain age groups. So that's gotta pass. And Also at the McCullough foundation, we're working on many more scientific studies to really fully uncover what these shots have done to people. We recently published a case report finding vaccine components in an individual three and a half years after his last shot. We found spike protein MRNA and plasmid DNA in multiple biological specimens. And he had no documented infection, no nucleocapsid antibodies, which means it was not from the infection. And we're going to continue to crank out studies like that because our government, our regulatory agencies, public health agencies are not doing these studies. We haven't seen any come out looking at these long term implications from these shots. So, you know, multiple studies coming out, one's very soon where we found excess infant mortality right after these shots rolled out in the Philippines. And so, you know, we're going to keep doing that and we're going to look at other things. We're going to be looking at the bio labs and we're going to be looking at the childhood vaccinations because there's a very big problem there as well.

[David Rutherford]

I, I agree, man. I, I think those two components are, are massive, you know, I mean it's, you know, when you, when you, there's two things you can tackle, right. If you, if a person knows there's a, a bio lab in their backyard, they're going to get pissed. Right. The other thing is if they're kid, you're harming their kid because you lied about something, they're going to get angry. So those are, are great places to start and as well as the, you know, you get Idaho to go, maybe you get Montana next and Florida after that. I certainly know the Florida surgeon Jenner has been kind of leading a charge down where I live too. So Nick, I can't thank you enough for coming on. How can people follow you and the foundation?

[Nick Holscher]

Well, thanks for having me. And people can follow me on my X account, icholsher, but you can also follow me on Instagram, Facebook and if you want you can follow me on LinkedIn. That's where a lot of the trolls are. And then, but yeah, my sub stack I is called the focal points. The focal points dot com. I'm with Dr. Peter McCullough and John Leak. We post their daily and all the breaking research and yeah, any of those spots you'll be able to find the latest news.

[David Rutherford]

Great Nick, thank you so much and keep up the great work, man. God bless you guys.

[Nick Holscher]

Thank you. God bless you.

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