David Rutherford Show: From 9/11 to Fallujah: A Marine Grunt’s Untold War Story

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: David Rutherford Show – From 9/11 to Fallujah: A Marine Grunt’s Untold War Story

Date: December 17, 2025
Guest: "Griff," USMC Veteran, Iraq War (Task Force Tarawa, Battle of Nasiriyah, Triangle of Death)

---

Episode Overview

This episode is a deeply personal, wide-ranging interview between David Rutherford and Griff, a Marine Corps infantry veteran. Their conversation traces Griff’s journey from his post-9/11 enlistment through the intense urban warfare of the Iraq invasion, subsequent deployments, his near-fatal injury from a mortar attack, and his path to recovery, family, faith, and resilience. The episode is part of Rutherford's “Grunt Series,” highlighting the "backbone" of the Global War on Terror (GWOT): regular infantrymen whose stories often go untold.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Call to Serve and Influence of 9/11

• Impact of 9/11: Griff’s decision to join the Marines was solidified by the emotional impact of September 11, despite his family's military legacy.
  • Quote: “I had a patriotic, just emotion come over me and I thought, someone's got to do something... I'm going to join the Marine Corps.” – Griff (05:03)
• Legacy of Service: Griff reflects on his father’s skepticism:
  • Quote: “‘Good luck, if you make it. We’ll see.’ And so when I came back ... he definitely conferred his pride on me.” – Griff (06:13)

2. Boot Camp & Marine Corps Identity

• Culture Shock and Intensity Post-9/11: Bootcamp carried a new intensity, with the real prospect of combat palpable for recruits and instructors alike (16:01).
• Choice and Tradition: Marine Corps indoctrination emphasizes voluntary commitment and the building of unbreakable bonds.
  • Quote: “It’s about the choice. You chose to be here, and they are constantly reminding you... if you want to do this, we’re going to get the best out of you.” – Griff (21:07)
• Tradition and Honor: The lasting meaning of being a Marine and the persistent brotherhood (“Once a Marine, always a Marine”) (25:43).

3. Forming Brotherhood and Preparing for War

• Tight-Knit Camaraderie: Griff describes the individuality and authenticity of his fellow Marines, the high standards, the ball-busting, and fierce loyalty (27:39).
  • Quote: “We all came from different backgrounds... and we were all in one, for lack of a better term, suck together.” – Griff (27:39)
• Training & Deployment Cycle:
  • Boot camp in San Diego (Dec 2001–Feb 2002)
  • School of Infantry (SOI) in Camp Pendleton
  • Stationed at Camp Lejeune, NC (May 2002)
• Rapid Evolution to War: Early training was still Cold War-oriented, but by late 2002, deployment to Iraq was clear (32:13).

4. The Invasion of Iraq – Task Force Tarawa & Battle of Nasiriyah

• Deployment: Task Force Tarawa (three infantry battalions) shipped out in late 2002; nerves, bravado, and uncertainty dominated the pre-invasion atmosphere.
• Combat Realities: Griff recounts crossing into Iraq in MOPP suits (chemical protective gear), the chaos and scale of mechanized movement, and initial contact at Nasiriyah (“Ambush Alley”) (49:03).
  • Quote: “We shot the mortars, you know, and... we were kind of like, high fiving, like, yeah, we’re combat now. And you had no idea the shitstorm you were going to be put in later...” – Griff (49:03)
• Casualties and Grit: Marines suffered heavy losses (18 in one day at Nasiriyah). Griff’s experience included direct witness to destruction, death, and the mental shift from naïve anticipation to focused survival (57:50).
• Adaptability: Quick tactical learning under fire (rolling back vehicle canvas for full fields of fire), the constant need to improvise (56:25).

5. The Personal Cost of War

• Processing Risk and Loss: Describes moments of acceptance in combat – letting go of the “what-if,” focusing on doing the job (57:10–59:37).
• Survivor’s Guilt and Emotional Turbulence: Returning home, balancing relief with the gravity of loss:
  • Quote: “We did a 21-gun salute with mortars for those 18 ... a roller coaster of emotion ... you’re glad you’re going home, you’re happy, but you know it could have been different.” – Griff (63:19)

6. Transition, Return, and the Challenge of Meaning

• Reintegration and Inner Conflict: Coming home to family and a divided public, dealing with survivor’s guilt, wrestling with the war’s political justification, and seeking moments of purpose (e.g., connecting with Iraqi children) (67:54).
• Quote: “The only thing I could do [with Iraqi children] ... I ripped open my flak jacket and started pounding my chest. And these kids start mimicking me ... I thought, well, that’s a good thing we did.” – Griff (68:57)

7. Second Iraq Deployment – Triangle of Death

• Preparation and Training: More counterinsurgency-focused training, OPFOR simulations, coalition interaction.
• Change in Role and Mindset: As a returning combat vet, Griff saw ego and conflict in integrating new Marines—tempered by leadership and group experience (79:18–80:34).
  • Quote: “It’s always a choice... once you’re graduated boot camp, you still gotta choose to be that Marine that you’re supposed to be…” – Griff (79:18)

8. Family, Marriage, and Facing Mortality

• Rapid Marriage & Young Parenthood: Married at 21, wife pregnant at 19, dealing with deployments and fragility of life (“there’s a sense of urgency to live life to its fullest”) (87:39).
  • Quote: “I wanted to get married. I wanted to have children. It’s like, no, I want to get after this because I don’t know in a year if I’ll even be here.” – Griff (87:39)

9. Near-Death and Recovery – Mortar Attack

• Injury: Hit by 120mm mortar while on base in Iskandaria near Baghdad, massive shrapnel and burns, collapsed lung, fusion of arm, multiple surgeries (100:31–108:11).
  • Quote: “I rolled out of the rack ... and then it just felt like I got hit with a semi truck ... my whole left side was on fire.” – Griff (101:09)
• Evacuation & Hospitalization: Lifted to Baghdad, then Germany, Bethesda, and Brooke Army Medical Center; 27 surgeries total; wife summoned to hospital with infant son (109:32).

10. Aftermath, Recovery, and Faith

• Family Sacrifice: Wife’s strength and care; learning new roles; enduring attention as a military family (112:48–114:10).
• Transition & Regret: Weighs decision to leave Marine Corps instead of seeking a new role; immersion in college, challenges with health, drinking, rebuilding identity (115:06; 118:43).
• Faith and Reinvention: Found new direction through faith (Baptist church, baptism, modeling his life after mentors) and family (120:03–121:47).

11. Marine Corps Lessons & Legacy

• Discipline and Endurance:
  • Quote: “If I get knocked down ten times, I’m gonna get up eleven... that changed me.” – Griff (122:21)
• Brotherhood: The unbreakable bond, regardless of differences.
• Future Generations: Griff would be “overjoyed with pride” if his son chose military service (123:44).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Speaker | Quote | Timestamp | |----------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Griff | “I had a patriotic, just emotion come over me and thought, someone's got to do something...” | 05:03 | | Griff | “‘Good luck, if you make it. We’ll see.’ ... he conferred his pride on me.” | 06:13 | | Griff | “It’s about the choice… if you want to do this, we’re going to get the best out of you.” | 21:07 | | Griff | “We all came from different backgrounds... in one, for lack of a better term, suck together.” | 27:39 | | Griff | “When we got to the north side of Nazarea, we said, we don't need no stinking canvas. We rolled that thing up and now we could fire out 360 degrees... learn that in Ambush Alley in a firefight.” | 56:25 | | Griff | “If I get knocked down ten times, I’m gonna get up eleven.” | 122:21 | | David Rutherford | “I think there's a built-in humility—the adaptability. Right. You know, that old saying, ‘Adapt, Overcome, Conquer.’” | 55:35 | | Griff | “We shot the mortars ... high-fiving, like, yeah, we’re combat now ... and you had no idea the shitstorm you were going to be put in later...” | 49:03 | | Griff | “Once a Marine, always a Marine ... No one’s taking that away from you.” | 25:43 | | Griff | “She was wrapping bandages over my burn scars from war ... she never signed up for any of that.” | 115:06 |

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• (05:03) – Griff’s post-9/11 calling to the Marine Corps
• (16:01-20:16) – Boot camp intensity and shift in training after 9/11
• (27:39) – Camaraderie and “embracing the suck” as a group
• (35:35) – Pre-invasion deployment and morale
• (49:03) – First combat experience at Nasiriyah
• (56:25) – On-the-fly adaptation in battle
• (63:19-63:48) – Memorializing fallen comrades, emotional flux
• (79:18) – Integrating new Marines after first deployment
• (87:39) – Rushing into marriage and fatherhood under the shadow of war
• (100:31-108:11) – Mortar attack, injury, triage, and evacuation
• (109:32-111:46) – Reunion with wife, family response to injury
• (115:06-120:03) – Recovery journey: regret, struggle, finding faith
• (122:21-123:44) – Life lessons, discipline, and advice to his own son about service

---

Tone and Style

The episode is frank, gritty, and intimate. Both host and guest discuss the emotional extremes of military life – candid about the brotherhood, traumas, pride, pain, and personal change. The language is direct and unrehearsed, filled with gallows humor, humility, and deep-seated pride in service.

---

Conclusion

This episode is a testament to the experiences of regular Marine infantry during America’s post-9/11 wars—their motivations, their sacrifices, their growth, and their bond. Griff’s story of combat, survival, family, and faith offers an unvarnished look at service, recovery, and the hard-won lessons of war.

Guest’s book mentioned: “Black Mormon Joe” by Griff (available on Amazon)

---

Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human protect your pet with insurance from pets best plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new for accident and illness plans tests age 0 to 10 what kind of programs does this school have? How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by Holmes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's all so you can make the right decision for your family. Homes.com, we've done your homework. Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max hear that? It's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

[David Rutherford]

How are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I have land in conservation to provide water quality benefits with NRCs being short staffed. USDA isn't releasing any information because they're not there. I made an agreement, I've done my part, but now I'm sitting on potentially a large sum that is owed to you. My bills are coming due at the end of the year, but I can't even finalize my plans for next year. It's pretty frustrating.

[David Rutherford]

Protect conservation funding and staff that supports farmers paid for by Invest in Our Land. I know that you love grunt stories just as much as I do. Today we've got Griff, former Combat Marine and all around badass on the David Rutherford show. All right, everybody, welcome back to my grunt series. And again, this is as a result of my good friend Clay out there, my Green beret brother, who was a former marine first, who put the idea in my head that, you know, what special operations, that we're not as good as or badass as we think we are because a lot of grunts out of there did just as much in. In many cases more Fallujah Ratti, the Marja Push. And I think the reality is, is that we've had way too much of a spotlight on us. The drama, obviously, has gotten absolutely at a crescendo with this past weekend and Congressman Dan Crenshaw trying to sue my best friend Shawn Ryan, which is just all insanity. But again, that's not why we're here. We're here to really get into the unbelievable stories and histories of the grunts that were the backbone of the g WAT I am incredibly honored to welcome Robin Griff Griffins to the show today. Griff, brother, thank you so much for reaching out. I've been stoked for this for weeks as we've been trying to figure out how to get you on.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I appreciate the time, David. I'm looking forward to having a. A good conversation with you and sharing some grunt stories.

[David Rutherford]

Awesome. Awesome. All right, before we get into the grudge stories, I mean, the most obvious thing that we got to talk about is when was the earliest influence that the Marine Corps or the army or, like, how old were you? What movie? And sorry about my voice. I've been a little under the weather last few days. But what was that moment like for me? You know, it was watching the Green Berets with John Wayne when I was a kid. And I saw that, and I was just like, my mind exploded as to what was out there and the allure of what it meant to serve and to. To be a member of the United States military. So what was that moment for you?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Not to, like, beat around the bush, but it was 911 for me when I decided I wanted to be a Marine. I had heard of the Marine Corps. My father was a veteran of the Airborne, 101st, 1960, 61 and 62. Very patriotic man. And I was kind of a punk kid who didn't want anything to do with what his father had done. I had seen movies. Full Metal Jacket really had my attention as a teenager. So I knew who the Marines were, and I knew how to upset my father enough to be like, oh, I'm going to join The Marines. And so there was some of that. They were involved. But I'll be blunt. When 911 happened, I had a patriotic, just emotion come over me and I thought, someone's got to do something. And then I realized, wait, my dad was patriotic and joined the army. My grandfather was in the Navy. And so I was, I was like, well, I'm going to do what I always, you know, kind of told my dad I was going to do. I'm going to join the Marine Corps. And he just wished me good luck. My mom cried.

[David Rutherford]

And that was it. That's all he said was good luck, son. I'm proud of you.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

He didn't say he was proud yet. He said, good luck if you make it. We'll see.

[David Rutherford]

Wow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so when I came back and I got off the plane from boot camp, he definitely conferred his pride on me. And he never, he never took it back after that moment in time. Once I became a marine, he was proud.

[David Rutherford]

All right, before we get to you going to Marine Corps boot camp, I first just got to give a big shout out to one of our top sponsors and that's Patriot Mobile. Man, without these guys. They're the engine for the show. Love them so much. Truly incredible company out there, you know. And the reason is, is because every choice we make is an opportunity to stand for freedom. Even something as simple as your cell phone service. Now here's the truth. Most cell phone providers do not care about you. They just want your money. We know that. Right? But Patriot Mobile is different. For over 12 years, they've stood with Americans like you, me, who believe in family, faith, freedom, service, everything that has to do with great American patriotism. And they also contribute millions of dollars to Christian conservative causes around the country. The best part is with Patriot Mobile, you don't have to sacrifice quality or service. Patriot Mobile offers premium access on all three major U.S. networks. So you'll enjoy the same or better premium coverage as the major carriers. Think switching is complicated? It's not. Keep your number, keep your phone, or you can upgrade across everything. Patriot Mobile's 100% US based team will get you activated in just a few minutes. If you're stuck in a contract or still owe money, don't sweat it. It's not a problem. They even have a contract buyout program. So what are you waiting for? Go to patriot mobile.com rutherford or call 972 Patriot. Oh, and by the way, make sure use promo code Rutherford. That's R u T H E R F O R D and you will get a free month of service. Hoo yah Patriot Momo, we love you. Thank you. All right, Griff, let's talk about Marine Corps Boot Camp.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Your pet is your bestie, your therapist, your perfect match. It's easy to love them. It's easy to protect them too, with pet insurance coverage from Pets Best because it's all fun and games until they chew on something they shouldn't and you get a vet bill to match. With perfect timing, Pets Best helps protect your furry friend and your budget from this imperfect world. Get up to 90% cash back on eligible vet bills from less than a dollar a day. Pets Best has plans to cover accidents, injuries and more, from puppies and kittens to seniors. Find your perfect match plan and get a [e-mail] Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC or underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC. $1 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10 what kind of programs does this school have? How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Holmes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by Holmes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's all so you can make the right decision for your family. Homes.com, we've done your homework. Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO. Max Ulta Beauty's big holiday beauty sale is back with up to 50% off. Must have gifts shop irresistible deals like the Shark Beauty Flex Style and Benefit Cosmetics Travel size mascaras with new offers weekly same day pickup or delivery and our trusted associates. We make holiday shopping effortless. Head into Ulta Beauty today. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

[David Rutherford]

How are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I have land in conservation to provide water quality benefits with the nrcs being short staffed. The USDA isn't releasing any information because they're not there. I made an agreement, I've done my part, but now I'm sitting on potentially a large sum that is owed to you. My bills are coming due at the end of the year, but I can't even finalize my plans for next year. It's pretty frustrating.

[David Rutherford]

Protect conservation funding and staff that supports farmers paid for by Invest in Our Land. So tell me the sequence of 911 happens. I mean just like so many of y' all 911 babies. Right? Right. I' been in since 95 and so like I was already there but, but I mean it. The overwhelming response was that sense of, you know, not only, oh, you're going to attack us. Well, guess what, America's best are going to roger up. How long be before the moment you, you decided to the moment that you were at boot camp and then till you got home. What was the time frame of that?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, I went to boot camp December of 2001.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, wow, okay.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Down in San Diego, I went to the recruiting station like a day OR 2 After 911 and I had talked with the recruiter there. I had graduated high school earlier that year, that summer, and I had kind of just kind of played around with it more and less just to kind of get my dad off my ass. And so when I went down to the recruiter, he was kind of shocked, like, oh, I didn't expect to see you down here. And I said, you seen what happened? He's like, yeah, there's a line out the door. You're going to have to go get in the back of it. And I did. And I waited my turn and I signed my papers. He said, we're not going to send you off immediately. Here's the delayed entry program. You're going to do two months in that and then you're going to go to boot camp. And that's how I became a Marine.

[David Rutherford]

What was the delayed entry program like? Did you have to go meet with a motivator or a guy to get you ready or what was that like?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Mostly just the recruiters getting us together and either doing like a hip pocket class about like, hey, this is how the Marines jargon works. You know, this is what you're going to hear in boot camp. I was a bit overweight and so they were like, hey, you need to start dieting now, you need to start running now, you start working on pull ups now, stuff like that. It was a really good experience for me. I actually Met one of my lifelong friends, one of my best friends I served with and went to Iraq with. My recruiter was good because we met each other in that delayed entry program, and he said, I can't make you into a buddy pro program right now because I don't have the spot, but I'll do my best to get you guys in the same unit. And he did do that, so.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, that's awesome. That's really cool. So as. As you. You take your asvab, and in the Marine Corps, you don't get assigned where you're going until the end of boot camp, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

No, you. So I was a 0300 option. And so it was infantry for sure. Yeah, some. Sometimes they can assign you. Like, I don't. I think it's like a generic mos, you know, and then you get more specific after you. After you do boot camp and stuff like that. I did take the asfab. It wasn't a killer score, but it wasn't. It wasn't a terrible score. Like, all the jobs were. Most. Most of the jobs were opened up to me, except something that might be like super high speed or something like.

[David Rutherford]

That, you know, nuclear whatever. Yeah, nuclear Harrier pilot.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

None of that. I. I mean, like I said, 911 had motivated me to go and fight, and so I said, no, I'm gonna join the infantry. Which it did make my dad very proud when I. When I told him that. And that's what I did. And.

[David Rutherford]

And so. All right, in preparation for leaving, did you go to. You went to boot camp in San Diego, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yep.

[David Rutherford]

Now, a lot of people say, oh, boot camp is just. There's only one real Marine boot camp. It's Parris island and all that. But I know people who went to MCRD out there and got equally kicked in the nuts as. As all the people. So talk about a little bit what that was like going through boot camp so close to 911 when you started. And. And because operations, I mean, you know, I think, you know, ground branch and. And which was the jawbreaker they. They were in probably. I want to say it was like September 30th or something. They were starting enter, you know, triple Nick sf, oda, triple nickel with, you know, they had done the. They were moving in or five, five eight two or moving in on horseback. You know, Seal Team 6 was working out a quetta down low. So, like, combat's beginning as you're in boot camp was. Was the message pretty clear, like, hey, you're. You're going to combat this is what's going to happen. What was that attitude like during that time?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

It wasn't guaranteed that you'd go to combat. Like, no one was saying, hey, we're definitely going to send you to war. I think the drone instructors had thought maybe they were going to miss out. Even like that they thought it was going to end faster than it happened. And. But there was intensity there that you could tell was definitely. And they said, hey, you might be going to combat. You. There's a really good possibility you will be. Where I could see, like, in a previous classes, maybe those drones, same drone instructors were just a little less intense on that part.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And. And then with. With the group of recruits that I was with it in as well, we had guys who were in on age waivers. You know, I was in boot camp with a Marine from Tucson, Arizona, who was like, 35 years old.

[David Rutherford]

Wow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

You know, and so because. Because 9 11. It's just 9 11. And guys decided to do the right thing and chose to serve. And so, like, we had guys like me who had just recently graduated high school and didn't know, you know, nothing. And then there were guys who had given up full careers and businesses and stuff like that. And. And they were in for the fight as well. And so it was. It was different in that regard as well.

[David Rutherford]

Okay. All right, so when did you finish boot camp and then what happened after that? Give me the. The next few months where you went, where you got assigned, and what training you start getting into.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So I graduated boot camp February 2002. My mom took pictures of the wrong recruit because I had lost so much weight in that down there. That's awesome. Yeah, she. She took pictures of2. The two recruits down in formation, which I always thought was funny. And then I did come home to Salt Lake City, Utah, for a couple days on leave and got to spend some time with my family, and my dad was just emaciated with pride. You know, a very patriotic man, and he was. My mom was still pretty heartbroken. And then I went to school of infantry west down in Camp Pendleton, and I learned to become a mortar down there.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And then. Then after that, I got stationed in Camp lejeune with the 2nd Marines, 1st Battalion, 2nd Regiment.

[David Rutherford]

And what time did you get to Camp Lejeune?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Oh, that was gonna be probably. I want to say April, maybe May of 2002. So not. Not. Not much longer after, maybe two or three months after graduating boot camp. Soi is kind of a blur. You know, it's kind of my first time I was outside my parents house for real. And like, I, I, I didn't have a drill instructor either.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, you got to do your own laundry, cook your own food. Yeah, man.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Released on liberty. And I'm like, what do we do now? And they're like, yeah, whatever you want, guy. Like, get out of my face.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, can I go to Walmart? No. Yeah, do whatever you want. Yeah, that's funny, man. You get, you get so brainwashed, right? You're so ready for someone to say, all right, go sit down, go move over there. Go to admin. Do you know you just get indoctrinated into it now, now, like, oh, wow, I can think for myself and I can have my own life outside.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, it is wild to think back on that. I had all four of my wisdom teeth pulled in boot camp and after they did it, all the rest of the like, recruits had went back to the squad bay without me because I was there longer and I was kind of like, what do I do? You know? And they're like, you go back to your platoon now. And I'm like, by myself. Like somebody to walk with. Like. And so like, yeah, I remember walking across MCRD by myself, like, please don't be seen, please don't be seen. Like, get to the squad, get to the squad. It all worked out, you know, so.

[David Rutherford]

But yeah, tell me this, explain to me this, because this, I'm, I'm, I'm 100% believer that, that the Marine Corps boot camp is by far the best short term psychological indoctrination process there exists on the planet.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Agreed.

[David Rutherford]

And I, and they're just, their system, the way they do it is so functional. Not functional is not a good. Exquisite. Right. It's so, it's so professional. It's so dialed in. What do you think about the system, the training, the regiment? Why does that have such a powerful impact on both the individual, the young man who's becoming a man, and then also the beginning of building those bonds that really, which is really indicative of what the Marine Corps is. Right. The Marine Corps is a bonded group of men that are the devil dogs of warfare. Right. And so how does that begin to take place, in your opinion, in boot camp?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

In my opinion, it's about the choice. You, you chose to be there and they are constantly reminding you that, yeah, this sucks, but you chose to be here and you can choose to leave. Like, the out is always there and you can always choose to leave. You don't have to be here, you don't have to do this but if you want to do this, we're going to get the best out of you, and this is how we're going to do it.

[David Rutherford]

That's really interesting because you don't. I think a lot of people don't understand the power of what being a willing participant is, right? Like that's the essence of all participation. If you're not willing to go all in on whatever the structure of integration is, right. If you're not willing to open up your heart, your mind, your physicality, even your spiritual dedication to each other to be in all in, then the program doesn't work, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, it doesn't. And I'll be honest, I have a son and I've seen it in his friend groups, not in him as much, but there is kind of like this, like they're just their, their presence is there because that's what's deemed necessary. Like they didn't choose to be here or that kind of attitude of like, there's no choice that they made to here at work or whatever. And so I see that in young people. I don't see it in young Marines I meet. So I think that, that, that, that power that I don't, I don't want to call it like stoic choice theory, but maybe somewhere around in there, like, that's still part of the Marine Corps. And I think that comes to be blunt, we, we are institution. And I say we still, even though I am very far out of the Marine Corps, you know, but we are an institution that values tradition. And I think there's something in that tradition where that stoic choice theory of like, hey, you chose to be here. You chose to be a Marine.

[David Rutherford]

Like, oh my God, I, I was one of my closest friends, former recon Marine, and now he's a Marine Reserve officer from MARSOC out, out west. And when he was at the agency with me, spent some time in, in, in Libya and had the opportunity to go to the grave site where the Marines who died in the Barbary wars, the first Barbary exchange, their gravestones are still there. They're like. And he went there and he did the etching, you know, has it and he has it in his office. And I was like, what's that? And he tells me this story and it's like literally the beginning, right? It's like the overseas beginning of the Marine Corps conquest in the Barbary Wars. And I could tell the pride in him, right? And I could tell that. And you know, it was one of those things that there's Just such a historical relevance to the impact that the Marine Corps has had and then has at all times. Yeah, right. There's just a really. There's something solemn. Maybe solemn's not the right word. There's something. There's. I don't know. What is it? There's a depth, right. There's a depth. There's a depth of legacy and honor and tradition, like you said, that's so powerful in the core that it precedes you. Right. Like, you get, you know, four people walk into the room, you know, you're wearing your dress blues, and the rest, you know, I'm in my soupy safe. You know, I'm in my. You know, I come out, you know, and I get my little. I get my little pocket.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

I'm like. I'm like, hey, what's up? I'm here. And you're like, get out of here, retard. You know, we want the. We want the Marine. And. And I. There's just something powerful. And. And you learn to carry that immediately, don't you? Like in. Like, that's a part of the responsibility that you are a member. Not a member, but. It's too light. You're. You are a part of the brotherhood that this whole thing represents, and you owe it to that brotherhood to be that forever.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Agreed. And like, what they told us in boot camp and in SOI and even in the fleet was once a Marine, always a Marine. And I. I think that is a remarkable thing to. To have. Once you are a Marine, you're. No one's taking that away from you. You're always going to be a Marine. I do think that it is a choice, you know, like, I always want to present the good principles and qualities of that as well. I know that there is stuff like, you know, in the veterans community, like, calm down, gung ho. Like. Like, you're not a Marine anymore. You know, I. On default on the cringe side, I guess you could call it, or. I love it. I love talking about it. I love the Marine Corps. I had the privilege.

[David Rutherford]

As you should. As you should. You earn that right.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You.

[David Rutherford]

Not only did you earn the right by just going through the training and putting on a uniform, but you definitely earned a right by going to combat multiple times. And that's. And I think that's the beauty of it. Like, you know, you generate these bonds so significantly in training with these other men that. That belief right at its core. Like, I. Every time I talk to people, well, why'd you join this? Or why'd you join that. And like, every dude that I know that's a Marine is like, I joined because I wanted to be a Marine. Yeah, Right. Like in there. And it's. And it's spoken in this way where it's just like. Like you're there with Audi or not Audie Murphy, but like a chesty puller. Right. You know, you're. You're side by side, arm in arm with chesty puller and.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Right.

[David Rutherford]

And that's a powerful man. And I. It really is exemplified in the core itself. Tell me about the guys. Some of the guys. And you don't have to use your names, but what stood out about the men that were around you? Just some. Some things that you noticed about each other.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Genuine. They were very genuine men. They all had. I don't want to call it like a all for one and one for all mentality, but that's kind of how I felt when I was there. You know, we all came from different backgrounds, different places, and we were all in one, for lack of a better term, suck together. Right. Camp or whether we're in SOI or whether we're just in the field in camp as un or if we're in combat, like, especially because that's where all that stuff was preparing us to be. Right. And all those, like, I want to say all 99 of those men, absolutes just terrify me, David.

[David Rutherford]

So, like, there's always one turd, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

There's terrifying, you know, but. So 99 of those men all had a very genuine perspective on life, what we were doing and who they were, you know? So, like, if one guy was, hey, I'm stub PT stud, like, you knew who that guy was immediately. He didn't. He didn't hide it, you know, or he didn't try to, you know, if. If we're all in a squad together and this guy's got the best. Pft. Like, you knew exactly who that guy was. And this guy's the best at, I don't know, doing math. You knew who that guy was.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So it's very cool.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah. And it. What. I always get a sense that even though Marines break balls with the best of them.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

If you get a group, you get a platoon of Marines, and you do have those individual guys, like, they'll boast about it. They'll. They'll. They're. They'll brag about their teammates, like, yeah. Like, it is that ride or die lifestyle. Right. And that's built into it. And I just think it's such A. It's such a transformational experience to know that now you have this, this comrade, this level of camaraderie that is a derivative of that. You know, you always say, oh, I. I raised my right hand and I sign a blank check for, you know, the United States of America, who. Yah, whatever. But really what you're doing is you're signing that check for the dude who's on your right and your left. And I think you guys embody that from the get go with such a.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Powerful way it is, and I'll say even through generations. So I'm a little bit older now, and I'm more in the, the veteran community than I am like the active duty. And I meet other Marines who like the guys I served with and went to combat with. Yeah, we have a fierce camaraderie and we can bust balls pretty good too, by the way. But even the younger guys who came in 10 years after me now, and I can see and I go, oh, that's a Marine right there. And my wife's like, how do you know? I was like, watch this and I'll go over, you know, hey, what's going on? Marine or devil dog? How do you know? I hope a haircut gave you away, but I need them in the community and like, they're police officers, firefighters, teachers, fathers, just doing things that Marines do, you know, just improving their environment and moving around them and just being gun ho, you know.

[David Rutherford]

I love it. I love it. All right, all right, so you go, you check in. In Lejeune. Now we're dealing May of 02. It's funny, that's. That's when I first landed in Afghanistan was end of May. Oh, to my first trip. And. And so now you're there. Obviously, the mentality of the war in Afghanistan is shifting a little bit right now. It's starting to become, all right, we've inserted the government. We got Karzai in. When did you guys, like, when you landed and you started training there with your platoon, you know, was it. Was it like, oh man, we might not be going over there? Or had. Had there been an idea, like, had the murmuring. Because I remember when I got back, when we. When I first went over on an advent February of, of 02 in Kuwait City, there was almost no buildup for Iraq. And then when I got back into Bahrain afterwards and we went and got all our stuff in Kuwait after Bahrain, like, there was a massive buildup beginning for Iraq. And so just in that short amount of time, there was this huge shift to where? Oh, no, Iraq's going too. So did tell me about that time when you were in Lejeune for like, six, seven months.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah. So we checked in and the battalion had just come back from Okinawa and they did a rotation over in Okinawa, and they were over there when 911 happened. And so they thought like the senior Marines to the junior Marines, that's always kind of like a thing. And there was hazing involved, but it was more just a good, clean initiation, if you ask me, you know, into the infantry. And. And they. They were kind of in the mentality, like our corporals and sergeants were like, telling us, like, hey, we already seen the craziest thing when we got stood up during 911 when we were in Okinawa. You guys aren't even gonna see anything like that. And then we did a combined arms exercise out in 29 palms together. And it was still kind of that same mentality. You know, the training was. Is Cold War era training. So we were a big infantry unit training like a big infantry unit in 29 palms. And then when we came back, that's when murmur started to happen after we came back from that training cycle and maybe even a little bit, maybe a month or two even after that. But In December of 2002, we were pretty much like, locked in. We were like, yeah, we're going to end up going to Iraq. And we had telling us.

[David Rutherford]

And you had commanders telling you that in December of, oh, two, you had commanders saying, yeah, gents, guess what? Where it's slotted, this is what it's going to happen. Did they give you any kind of rough timelines at that? Were they saying anything?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So it was getting ready to be Christmas and a lot of guys were going out on leave. And so the officers did give us a timeline of, hey, when you come back, we're getting ready to deploy. And so don't, don't, don't, don't disappear is essentially what the officer were saying. Like, you will miss a movement and it will be extremely severe if you miss this movement. And wow, they were maybe even talking more to the seniors who kind of seen a little bit more of that pre 911 where like, yeah, you might get slapped on the wrist. You show up a day or two late. No, they were like, very strict about, hey, you're going on leave and you will be here at this time. And back then, I was little Lance Corporal Griffiths. Well, actually I was still pfc. I picked up Lance Corporal in transit on the USS Sponsor, Lance Cooley on ship, which was I love the experience of ship itself, but, yeah, they were very strict with the leave. They did give us leave. I came home that for that Christmas for a week maybe, you know, and then, yeah, I made sure I was on my flight because they were very adamant about, hey, you, you do not want to miss this movement. You'll suffer real consequences.

[David Rutherford]

Okay. All right. So you knew it's coming you. But you're still, you're, you're rolling off old school training. Yeah, right. Gulf War first. Gulf War training. You're. That's what the mentality of the invasion, I'm sure is going to be like. Describe coming back and then getting on that boat and heading over. What was morale like? What was the dynamics like in the platoon? You know, what were you guys talking about? You know, because when you're at sea, right, for long periods of time, there's a lot of downtime, a lot of boredom. What was the mentality on that boat like during that ride?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

The, the mentality was, you're gonna go to combat. But they were not specific. So even the NCOs and some of the staff NCOs that were in my heavy mortar platoon would be like, hey, we're gonna go do detainee handling in Africa, or, hey, we're gonna go do this operation in Korea, or something like that. So. But what they did, like, when we were getting ready to deploy, what they did mention was like, hey, you're not deploying regular. So I deployed with Task Force Tarawa, and it was heavy, right? Like, it wasn't like a regular MEW or one battalion. And then all the attachments are coming with it. We had three infantry battalions. Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

Holy cow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Three infantry battalions crammed onto old ships.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah. What was that like? Describe those living arrangements.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I've never been in prison, but I'm pretty sure it's what that shift life experience was like. Again, I, I, I'm just a kid from Salt Lake City, Utah, at this point. I'm happy to be on the adventure, kind of.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I'm nervous. And I'd lie if I said I wasn't afraid. I was afraid. Going to war is not, you know, it's war. And, and so there's some times where I'd hear, oh, we're just going to do t me handling it. I go write a letter to my mom. Hey, mom, everything's gonna be just fine. And Sergeant so and so told me, we're gonna handle it.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

We read that letter and go, doesn't have a clue. You Know he's not, you know, just like my mom have heard little one puzzles.

[David Rutherford]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here you go, sweetie. You just keep reading these. Yep.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

But we were doing stuff, we were putting gas masks on. A lot of it was for that. Because that WMD threat and the chemical warfare threat, like when we invaded Iraq, we, we were in mop suits. So we would on ship practice just putting our gas masks on and off and taking apart like doing all kinds of marine stuff that you could possibly think of filling up 24 hours a day on ship. Yeah, a lot of cards. You know, we played board games and stuff like that too.

[David Rutherford]

Where it was, I mean, I think a lot of young people that imagine going in and, and they, you know, whatever. I don't want to call them illusions, but whatever. However they concoct the, the idea of that. Right. Oh yeah, man, I'm gonna be gung ho. I'm gonna do that. Did you experience, were there other guys that were trying to project that type of like, oh, I can't wait to go, I can't wait to get in. Was there an attitude like that that was building in everybody too?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, there's definitely an attitude of bravado, right? Yeah, like, and maybe a lot of it was false and like, I would do it too. I'm not immune from it. You know, I was a 20 year old kid on a ship going sailing to Iraq. And so like there was a lot of that. And then, you know, there was. We had some really good leaders. We had some really good staff NCOs and some good, just NCOs period. They were still very genuine. But yeah, it was kind of like, hey, if I, if I catch you, you know, sleeping on watch, I'm gonna be your biggest problem. Not Saddam Hussein, you know, And I keep those things literal, like, okay, yeah, I don't want to get killed by my own sergeant because I messed up. So that was there, you know, and it was, for me, it was like a big adventure because I was, I was just kind of a sheltered kid. And now I was sailing through the Mediterranean to the Middle east. And so it, I enjoyed that part of it.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, the adventure.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So. But yeah, I'm gonna get all of them, Medal of Honor and I'm gonna go crush the enemy by myself and all that stuff. But we had good leaders who were like, calm down, just make sure your stuff's good to go, you know?

[David Rutherford]

Yeah. Talk a little bit about your leaders. I mean, obviously nobody had any combat experience. I mean, Right. You know, anybody that did was from Golf one. And so they're, you know, they're all pretty much gone by then. You know, at least, at least your senior NCOs, right? So no, no one had combat experience. What, what did you gain? What did, what was your estimation of, of their mindset and them going like, were they experiencing the similar feeling as you guys or, or were they, were they more conditioned because of more time in, to be more methodical in their approach to what might be coming?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, they were definitely more conditioned and methodical and definitely had the right mindset. That's the best way I could put it is they didn't feed into that youthful exuberance for adventure and war like I did. And they made sure that we were focused on what was our job. My platoon sergeant especially, and he was a gunnery sergeant who had come straight a drill field. So he was a drill instructor and he was a swim instructor and before that he was an artillery guy and now he was a heavy mortar platoon sergeant. And he just did an excellent job at not buckling, you know, under that much pressure, like, hey, I'm going off to war, I'm taking these guys to war. And he just, he made it all about let's do the best job we could to. Even if it's like, hey, we're going to cut burlap sacks to put over the headlights, you know what I'm saying? While we're on ship, this is what we're going to do because this is going to help us out later on. Or you guys need to be doing this with your gas mask. You guys need to be doing this as a squad and, and doing those things. You know, he was, he was very much a three mile stud. Like he could do three miles in 18 minutes. So even on ship he tried to get us to run as much as we could. And so, but his, his presence was very stoic. When he was in front of the platoon, he was very stoic. And what you want out of a leader in that situation, well, that's always.

[David Rutherford]

The greatest thing is like the people that find their way into those moments, right, those le, those true leadership moments. And I believe there's nothing more difficult on the planet than leading young men into combat. I mean it's got to be just so, so profoundly overwhelming to have other people's lives and you know, at the ends of your decisions and, and, and when you don't have any, you know, in depth experience of combat like it, I can, can't imagine how much more intense it is. So all Right, Tell me, walk me through when you guys got the word. The ramp up and then. And then getting deployed and. And then leaving the boat and starting the. Because you were part of the invasion, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Correct. So we sailed in the Mediterranean. The rumors were going around. We heard, I guess Jennifer Lopez passed away is what I heard one rumor was, and some crazy stuff like that. And then we sailed through the Suez Canal and that's when we all kind of went, oh, we know where we're going. Yeah, we were in the old school desert cams. Not the chocolate chip, but the old, like, not the digitals, you know, and we had our gas masks on us the whole time when we were going through the Suez Canal and we seen all the Egyptian forces lined up on the Suez Canal and. And the stuff we were doing. So when we sailed through that Suez Canal, we were like, okay, we're going to hit Iraq. Guys were also getting word, you know, from other places. You know how it happens sometimes does get broken sometimes.

[David Rutherford]

And.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so like, yeah, we're gonna go into Iraq. And we did like an ELCAC landing in Kuwait. Like. Like a. No kidding. Like Noreen landing. Like, we didn't get out and like, we weren't. We didn't have control.

[David Rutherford]

And. In all your vehicles. Yeah, but just the alcohol came, dropped.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

His doors and said, get out. And we got out and waited for helicopters. And then we were in Kuwait for camp Shoot. Kuwait. We were there for at least 30 days. Okay, maybe. And then we pushed in with task force Taroa across the LOD and we were in war at that point in time. And like I said that.

[David Rutherford]

Explain that. Explain. Like, all right, you have. All right, gents, there's 12 hours, everybody. You know, you're having your pre mission briefs. You're having, you know, the, the, you know, the grand brief, then the platoon brief and then your squad brief. Just walk us through, like those briefs and what that feeling was like.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So we were in Kuwait probably at least two or three weeks when the president gave Saddam that ultimatum. And so when after that happened, I believe it was General Natonsky who came and gave us the big picture brief, which was just so moto, because none of us could actually hear what he was saying except like when he'd be like, kill. And we'd all be like, yeah, kill. Like, that was like. We didn't hear any details of what he was like, you know. And then right as he said. And the shock and awe just started. 24 hours ago, two F18s did a near pass on our camp oh wow. We were all like, we were like, yeah, we're going to go, we're going to go do this thing. And some guys were, you know, I had Marines who, who were a little bit older, you know, and they're like, bro, like we're just gonna get gobbled up by WMDs once we cross over. Like Saddam, these gas masks and, and it's gonna suck. I was like, you know, well, we did our duty. You know, we're here, we're gonna, we're gonna follow orders. But we got.

[David Rutherford]

Let me just, let me preface it Griff too because what people don't understand is, is the absolute suck factor 10 of MOP level 4. So MOP suits are, are biologically, biological suits for biological warfare, sarin, all these other types of gases. It's super thick rubber, right? And with, and so they don't breathe, they're hotter than hell, right? You're going to the hottest place on earth as it is. You know, you're got this gas mask. So we used to have to run the O course in MOP level four and by the time I would finish, right, there'd be like an inch of my sweat in my boots at the bottom. Right. You know the deal. So I just want the audience to think about one, you're a 20 year old kid and you're gonna go in to combat I. E And, and all you had, they had, we had to go with at that time was the first Gulf War. So you're imagining that and that's your frame of reference. And now, you know, now they're saying, oh and by the way, you're going to be completely dawning MOP level 4 for the foreseeable future. So you gotta eat out of this, you gotta drink out of it, you gotta live out of it, you gotta go to the bathroom out of it, you gotta ride in vehicles for 50 hours straight, you gotta launch mortars from it. I mean it's just doing that without MOP level four is difficult enough, much less this. So I just want to give the audience a perspective of not only the young mind, the young Marine mind that's going into combat, but how they have to go into combat was a whole nother story.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And to add on to that, being the youngest guy in that situation or the lowest ranking guy because you know, if you run out of all the detection stuff, what's the next way we're going to detect if the environment's deadly or not? Hey, psc, you get to take your mask off first and so that's always. That was always there. I was actually on the NBC detection team for our company. So I. I was one of the guys that actually got to go do, like, the little square recons when we come to a new site and. And all kinds of fun stuff. But, yeah, mop gear is different. We would play gas mask soccer on camp, and I don't think any of us ever actually kicked the ball, just kicked each other.

[David Rutherford]

So, yeah, it's always got to be about a fight, right? It's not actually about just any impact for a brawl. Yeah, yeah, I love it. All right, so you. You get a date, you get a time. Tell me that first moment where you sent one forward down the pipe, right? You got your whole kid. Just talk me, talk us through that.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So we. We did get briefed on Nazarea and Ambush Alley when we were on the way to there after Tonski told us, hey, you, this is your guys's job. This is your guys's mission is to secure these two bridges in this real old town called Nazarea. And I was like, sweet, so let's go do this. And we. We crossed the LOD and we knew where we were going. We knew what our mission was. And we drove for like, two days in humdies, and then we showed up in Nazarea, and then there was Republican Guard uniformed troops outside the city, and they. They were in a checkpoint, and one of the ford observers from the mine company had called in mortars. And so we shot our 81 millimeter mortars at this checkpoint that I think was probably abandoned way before we ever shot at it.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And it was kind of bravado a little bit. We shot the mortars, you know, and we were kind of like, high five. And like, yeah, yeah, we're combat now. We shot a mortar. And you had no idea the kind of the shit storm you were going to be put in later that day in Nazarea, because we didn't know what was going on up north of us exactly either. And so to keep telling that story, we shot those mortars, then we picked up that position, which was just a little south. And then we discovered that an army unit, the 507th, had been essentially ambushed. And then some soldiers were. Were taken, kidnapped essentially at that moment in time.

[David Rutherford]

I remember that.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So everything changed from that moment when that information came down. Everything became very. Hastened is the best word I have for it.

[David Rutherford]

Great word.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And they said, hey, you guys are going to push? You guys are going to push now. And we kind of looked around like, hey, the plan was to push with these big things called Abrams tanks next to us. We don't see any of them right now. You know, we got these tracks, which don't get me wrong, if I'm in a firefight, I'd rather still have a track than my Toyota Tacoma right now.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

There's not a mud. There's not a lot of difference between, between a Marine track and a Toyota Tacoma, you know.

[David Rutherford]

No.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so we pushed in and that's when I fired my rifle for the first time at enemy and dressed in Republican Guard uniforms, actually, and also fed a fighters who were dressed as civilians. And it was all from the back of a Humvee for the first little bit. And then that changed when we set up inside the city and we were shooting at rooftops where guys were coming, popping up over rooftops and just a lot of crazy. It's chaotic to think about the day and how those days events happened. You know, I was in kind of the rear of my battalions column right as we moved through. And so we had companies that.

[David Rutherford]

How big was the column? Let's give an estimation of the size of you guys moving around, because that's the other thing. But I want the audience to realize, like, you know, for us it's, it's much more simplistic because we move in such small groups, but you guys have massive numbers of vehicles and people and so describe a little bit of that moving from one place to the next and, and then coming up with the next. All right, now we're going to go here. And the waiting. And that's. I think that's the thing that people just don't understand that they're like, you just put the gas pedal down, you drive until you hit people, you shoot them, and then you drive until you, you know. So give them a little bit of insight.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So in the battalion, we would have three infantry companies. And each infantry company in that task force was what they referred to as meched up, which was. Means they had roughly about 12 AAVs. And in each AAV, they could fit between 10 to 25 Marines, roughly give or take, depending on how crammed they would be and how big the company was. So those three companies, roughly like 100 to 20, 150 Marines in each one of those line companies with about a dozen to 15 tracks. So I don't know if people are. When I say track, it's an amphibious assault vehicle. It's. It looks like a tank, and most people think it is a tank, but it's only six inches of aluminum, not steel. And they'll let you know, the guys who drive it like, hey, this is not a tank, but it, it can float or sink slowly depending on. And so, but I was with the weapons company, so I was more behind the line companies as well. Weapons company had about like another 100, maybe 120 Marines in it. And it was broke up between the heavy mortar platoon, which I was in, and then we had like the anti armor platoons and, and pretty much anti armor. So like small gunners, tow gunners, and it was all kind of Humvee based. So Michael Tune had, I think we had 10 humvees, give or take, you know, and, and we had eight mortar guns and we would break it up. Each squad instead of a Marine rifle squad, would be a mortar gun, right. And there would be a squad leader for the gun there. And my gunnery sergeant did an excellent job. He came from artillery. He did an excellent job preparing us at getting those guns to fire on the enemy and use those mortars in close support of the infantry that we were there with, specifically those three companies that, that are ahead of us. Because in the Marine Corps, RFOs come from our own company. We don't, we don't, you know, in the army they go to their own specific school and then send them to the, wherever they're going to end up. For us. We just send one of our own guys to that line company and he's now the guy with the radio calling in the fire mission. And so just in my battalion alone, we're looking at like 400. 400, you know, so that's just massive.

[David Rutherford]

Like, that's so massive I can't even wrap my head around it, man.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

It, yeah, it's, it's sometimes weird to think that there's that many people and I see faces in crowds and I go, I think I know that face, but I don't really know that face because it's just another 400 of you faces walking around sometimes.

[David Rutherford]

But yeah, well, and it's interesting too because you're, you're all, you're moving together, but you're all trained independently, right? And you know, and it's, and it's, the coordination of that, it's not as fluid as a lot of people think. Like it takes time for, for the tactics of an assault or the tactics of, you know, taking a city or a city area or whatever, taking a bridge. Like this is all very complex in terms of the coordination of all these different units, right?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, oh, absolutely. And hats off to the men doing it. We did make mistakes that day, and I say we because, you know, no one's perfect, you know, and some of that coordination did get kubarred a little bit between our Air National Guard and our, our guys on the ground, you know, and that can happen. But I, I really think that the leadership that I had was so ready to take, ignore, like, acknowledge the mistake to, to be better. The next iteration.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah. And I think that's the beautiful aspect, I think, of, of one the Marine Corps is there's a built in humility, like you up, you own it, but you move on. And that. And that's the one thing that I really think, the adaptability. Right. You know, and that's that old saying, right? Adapt, overcome and conquer, something like that. And, and you know, that, that embodies what the Marine Corps can do because, like, the idea is like, you're, you're up front and so if you're not pushing forward, that's the, that's what's wrong. Like, you might push forward and make, you know, a tactical mistake, but it, you're still going to have to push forward in the next, you know, six to ten hours. You're. You're moving forward. So. All right, get us to where you're, You're.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I got a great example for that one, please. So when we went into Nazarea, the canvases on our Humvees, we were in high back, Humvees were closed down over the top of us, and we were all shooting out the back hatch of it. When we got to the north side of the Nazarea, we said, we don't need no stinking canvas. We rolled that thing all the way up and we now, all of us could fire out 360 degrees instead of this little back hatch. But we learned that right there in Ambush Alley from the hour before, you know, in a firefight. So, yeah, we adapted. You know, adapt or die, adapt, overcome. And it happened right then and there with that, you know, I remember seeing that and go, yep, that's the right thing. Let's do that. You know, so one of the, one.

[David Rutherford]

Of the interesting things that I love to talk to guys about is kind of the moment where you, you put away like, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh shit, oh. And you're just like, hey, if it happens, it happens. I got to do my job. And so it's that pivotal moment of like, okay, I'm not going to waste any more time mentally, emotionally dealing with the what if of me getting shot, getting Blown up, whatever. I just have to now only focus on doing what I need to do my job in relation to, you know, the platoon in. In it accomplishing its job to walk us through that a little bit.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah. So back on the north side of that, during Nazarea on the 23rd, I. I talked to you about my battle buddy that I met in the debt program here in Salt Lake. He was in one of the line companies. He was in one of the. The AAVs that got hit and was exploded and blew up all over the place. And so I. I seen that from a Humvee as I was crossing it, and I seen Marines, you know, corpses in those AAVs. And we actually picked up some of the Marines who were from, you know, there was, I think, two or three AAVs that got hit. And they were in. On the rooftop of a building, which was really sketchy because we were shooting at Iraqis on the rooftops of buildings. And then we go, wait, wait, wait, that guy's not an Iraqi. That guy's a Marine. And the Humvee stops and, you know, do you guys need a ride? Yeah, we need a ride. And they jumped in, and I asked one, hey, where's my buddy at? And he just looked at me like, hey, he didn't make it. And so on the north side of that bridge, when we were on the north side and we were kind of at a casualty collection point, you know, and things were still very fluid. That's when my buddy came up to me. He actually had crossed the bridge. He. He on foot, beat fleet, and then went across. He didn't cross the bridge on foot. He swam across the canal. The Saddam canal.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, my God.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

He's got an excellent story, and I loved seeing him, but when I seen him, I thought, okay, now. Now I understand this. They told us about the fog of war. They told us about the chaos of this.

[David Rutherford]

Yes.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And. And I thought, okay, if every day is like this, there's a good possibility I'm probably gonna get hit before it's over. Every day was not like that particular.

[David Rutherford]

No, for sure. But. But still, it. It's. It. It is what You. You have to establish some level of cognitive dissonance that, like, you can't let that just be this. This what? This veil that you. You're. You look through operationally because you're always. It's. It's interrupting your ability to be as proficient and efficient with your. Your tactics and your. Your skill sets. Yeah. All right, so how long was this deployment and how much, like, give Me, kind of the highlights of, of, of how you interpreted it, you know, how we, if your success, how you guys felt as a unit, how successful you were, and, and really just kind of the, the emotional highs and lows of it.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So definitely I feel like we were successful in our mission in securing the bridges, even after we had kind of some mistakes made, you know, in that coordination part of it. We still, at the end of the day, Marines were on those bridges and they were secure, intact, and we could push forward north to Baghdad. So Task Force era, while, in my opinion, was definitely successful with that, the low is that we did lose 18 marines in one day.

[David Rutherford]

Wow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

In Nazarea. And we did have a memorial service. So we, we, after Nazaria, we were kind of held back a little bit. You know, my battalion, specifically, because we did have the higher casualty rates than the other two battalions in the task force. And so we did a little bit of kind of just patrolling and kind of like security, like rear end security kind of stuff around Alcoop in that area as well. And we were there for probably like another 2, 3 months total in that area of Iraq. We stayed at a TV station there, which was, it was interesting because we had a guard tower. And I remember, you know, standing duty in the guard tower and chasing like, I, I small animals around this TV station in a Humvee. Like we were hunting back in the woods, you know.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Get in. And we'd chase, you know, a bunny rabbit or something. I'm like, dude, we're gonna get in trouble. But, you know, and then, so we were back in Camp Leon, I want to say, like, it could August, like late August, so.

[David Rutherford]

Wow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

But we sailed out January.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And we were on ship like a month, month and a half. Real Suez and up the Persian and then Kuwait, Iraq. And we got back on ship again, which was a whole other experience after we had been through combat. You know, we're getting on ship 18 less guys than we came with and a lot of other guys who are medevac out as well, you know, and the Navy guys kind of there at first, like that first day, they were just kind of like, how do we treat these guys? You know, you're just kind of like a standoff distance, you know. But then after that, it was just like back to the normal, like, hey, get out of my way. I gotta make this ship go. You know. And so we sailed back.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And that took. That didn't take us nearly as long as sailing there, I guess. So I guess they kind of went this way, there and straight back. We did stop in Palma de Mallorca for four days that I barely remember.

[David Rutherford]

Your first official post, combat liberty, which I'm sure was lively.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

We, We. We were celebrating, you know, being alive, being young and being Marines and also.

[David Rutherford]

Your fall and I'm sure, too.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Absolutely.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, man.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And that was the low point of that. We did do, like, an impromptu memorial service where we shot our mortars. Actually were kind of like the 21 gun salute for those 18 that we did right there on the north side of Nazarea. And then, you know, was a low point that. It's hard to describe now because there's. It was a roller coaster of emotion.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

You know, this day, if you're low and then you're high because. And it sounds bad, that survivor's guilt. We've all dealt with it. You're glad, you know, you're glad you're going home. You're happy to be going home.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And, you know, it could have been different. So just dealing with all of those coming back on ship was its own can of worms, you know, why? Just mistakes that were made and, And. And things we were hearing about what had happened, things we were hearing back home from friends.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And. And not to get too into the politics, things we were hearing, you know, about, you know, what was going on and why we were there and all that stuff.

[David Rutherford]

So, yeah, it started immediately like that. That's the interesting aspect of Iraq versus Afghanistan. Like, Afghanistan never was in question until much later where I think with Iraq, it was right. Kind of from the beginning. I mean, I had buddies that were a part of this group called the original Dirty 30. And they were in charge for the agency to go out and find the weapons, you know, the gas and weapons of mass destruction, and. And very early they were reporting like, there's nothing out there. Maybe some old chemical places, but.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Right.

[David Rutherford]

Weapons of mass destruction. No, nothing. And then, you know, I think also the Al Qaeda ties were disproven pretty rapidly after that. So, you know, I did have a bunch of buddies that were part of the initial push. And, you know, they've got great stories like you. And. And going through. But again, you know, when they got back, you know, after that first cruise, things began to shift for sure. And when. When you were back, how soon. When you guys got. Did you get leave and then what'd you do on the leave and then how soon after you came back from leave where they're like, all right, Griff, get ready. Jock, back up. You're Going again.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So yeah, we did get leave. We got a big block of leave. When we got back, I think was like a 30 day leave they gave us. And I came home and my community welcomed me, you know, as best as they could with all that other stuff going on. Like, my mom is very on the other political side of the war. So like I, I, I'm dealing with that and I'll be, I'll be honest, I didn't know. You know, so when I was a young, dumb 20 year old full of fight, I just came home and go, yeah, of course we were doing the right thing, you know, like 100%, you.

[David Rutherford]

Know, we all did, we all, I mean, that's what you do. Why, why would you. And it's, and it's so ironic because I do get hit this question a lot now. They're like, do you regret what you did? Right? You know, and, and, and I say I don't regret anything I did. I regret I, because I, of who I was with and that's why I did. It was for the guys that were, I was with. But yeah, there's a component of me that once I really came to understand the, the, the politics that were behind not not only Iraq, but certainly Afghanistan and.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Right.

[David Rutherford]

You know, I mean, once you learn the story of Jawbreaker and how, you know, that that ground branch team and, and the Delta guys that were, you know, an hour behind Bin Laden and then couldn't get Ranger support, couldn't get other support, they couldn't get the money to keep the, like, you're like, well, how come this story wasn't told to everybody? Right? Maybe that would have, you know, saved a couple thousand lives maybe, you know, and it's just like, but that's beside the point. Obviously we could, we could have a whole show about how we feel about what we now know to be the reality of those commitments. But, but I just want to focus on the strength and the positivity of your sense of service and then also your sense of camaraderie and the men you served with.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so I had a deep sense of camaraderie with the men I served with, even though sometimes we didn't agree we were aware of that stuff. And one of the stories that I tell actually in the book that I self published and wrote is about this time in Alkut where we were delivering hospital supplies to the hospital there and there was a big group of children around our Humvee, you know, and they were asking us Mr. Mr. This and that and the Other. And the only thing I really could do because this one Iraqi kid came, kept coming up and pressing me on my flak jacket with my, my sappy plate. We only got one, by the way. Just a little grunt story. We, there was, there were slots for two, but we got one anyways. So he was pressing, he's saying, mister, you. Like he wanted to know if that was my real chest. Yeah, that was communicated clearly. Like he thought I was, you know, armored. Yeah, skinned. And so I ripped open my flak jacket and I started pounding my chest like King Kong. And these kids start just mimicking me. Like I'm talking like a hundred little Iraqi kids mimicking me and smiling. And I thought, well, that's a good thing we did, you know, and those little victories really have gotten me through kind of like, you know, and you're right objectively, cognitively, you know, looking back and going, dang it, you know, like, but those little times and you know, the guy right next to my Humvee, he told me, he's like, hey Griff, you're wasting your time, dude. These kids are going to grow up and hate us anyways. And I was like, well, not today, you know.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, not in this moment. That's the way, like my first deployment, I wanted to hate everybody. Like I thought that's what I had to do. And then, you know, every deployment after that, you start coming to the realization that civilians caught up in war, no matter where it is, when it is throughout history, those are the people who suffer the most.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Agreed.

[David Rutherford]

Right. And, and, and, and oftentimes, you know, the reason they're suffering isn't quite the most righteous endeavor there is. But again, and so like after that first one, I always was very cognizant of, of the women and children that just found themselves in these war zones and yeah, and to try and enforce empathy within my heart to realize, like, how would I want soldiers to treat my, my daughters and my wife if we were invaded here. Right. You know, and that although, you know, the likelihood or whatever, but how am I going to be. I'm not going to lose my humanity, right. For just because I don't have to do that.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And I think I struggled quite a bit actually, even in that coming home and being on that 30 day block, trying to force people to see it that way that I was seeing, you know, when they would be like, no, this is what's going on. And you just don't know because you're brainwashed or whatever. And like, I'm like, no, this is What I experienced, you know what I'm saying? Like, yes, well, war's horrific and, and, and deadly, but there's also those, these little moments that are, are noble, you know, and yes, yeah. And that's what I, I've still tried to articulate that better, you know, progress, we're always working towards that progress. I still try to articulate that better because I do think it is important, you know, just as important as the big picture, you know, is those little individual wins. And speaking about camaraderie, like me and the guy that told me that he ended up doing 20 years in the Marine Corps and getting out as a first Sergeant, great dude. And you know, we still talk to this day about stuff, you know, like this. And him and I are more similar minded about a lot of stuff now in 2025, you know, but it is that camaraderie of men who don't necessarily have to agree about everything. There's something there that is, man, that's the Marine Corps too, is because there's guys who, you know, it doesn't matter. I'm a Christian. You could be a Christian, but you could also be a Muslim and be a Marine. And you're still going to be a Marine. We're still going to do the job that we're set here to do and we're going to do it with honor. And that's what I tried to communicate my darndest to when I was home on leave. And then when we came back to Camp a June, we didn't really think we were gonna go back. We thought, okay, we did our part, like, send somebody else now, like. And there was guys back at Camp Lejeune chomping at the bit, you know, to go. Because we came back and we had this fancy little ribbon now that said we'd been in combat and they didn't. So, you know, they were chomping at the bit to go. We did another iteration of CACS at 29 palms. And then that's when we heard that we were going to be.

[David Rutherford]

What's cacs?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

It's Combined Arms exercise and it's the old Cold War stuff that the Marine Corps infantry used to do where they'd get the artillery, the tanks, the mortars, and everybody firing in the same range. It's really cool, actually. I loved it.

[David Rutherford]

Well, I mean, it's impressive as hell. You know, there's a lethality in that that seems like, oh, this is how wars are won right here, you know, and to be able to participate in that, it's got to be exhilarating at a minimum, and then at a maximum, like, yeah, this is why we're the Marine Corps. This is why we're badass.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, yeah. And there's. There was a little bit of pride in that, like, hey, because I got to be tasked to be a FO on the next time. And so I was getting to call in for fire. I was getting to talk to aviators up in F18s and. And I remember one day vividly on that second time, we were down in 29 palms. They had Air Force guys dropping, and they were dropping way off from where these F18 Marine pilots were dropping. And we're just like, on the ground, we're just going, yeah, that's right. You know, let's. That's right. Yeah. That force and readiness that the Marine Corps offers. And I know that there's been a little bit of talk about getting rid of the Marine Corps, which is really dumb. There's no better group to fight air ground and see than a Marine Expeditionary Unit. Like, a new. Is just so valuable to the country and to global politics and stuff like that. But, yeah, so we were doing that training, and yet the camaraderie was always there. You know, when we were in. In 29 palms, we were. We were guys who had come back from Iraq, and now we were kind of, you know, we were trying to. To get ready for whatever came at us next, even though we were kind of like, oh, we're not going to do anything at that moment in time quite yet.

[David Rutherford]

Okay. All right. So you. You weren't sure it was still going. This is probably. You said you, August, you left, you're back, so now you're moving into 04. And it was. It was in. What was it? I think it was April or May, 04 when the Blackwaters guys got hung from the bridge in Fallujah. Right? Correct. Yeah. And then. And then after that is when all hell broke loose. Right. So where were you in your timeline around that.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So we. We were doing the MEW workup. When that happened, we were on the back end of that ME workup and getting ready to deploy. And because we were doing a mew, there was all kinds of rumors like, oh, we're just gonna go like, you know, our predecessors did, and go to Japan, and we're gonna sit in, you know, camp, whatever it is there in Okinawa and not do anything we did not know. And. And lance corporal should not assume that, you know, above their pay grade, because I think when that did happen and we were ready to be a mew and we had all the attachments for a mew. They were like, nope, this MEW is going to go back to Iraq. And that's when we found out we were going to go to the Triangle of Death and Musaib Iskandaria area and, and go do what they were calling security and sustainment operations at that point.

[David Rutherford]

Security sustainment, that's right. I forgot that.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, One of the hearts and minds speeches.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, yeah. Security, sustainment, hearts and minds. The mix of those, right, is like, you know, we're gonna beat you into submission type mentality. All right, so you get this brief, right, and then talk about the next time. I mean, it's. It's got to be a completely different feeling the second time as you begin to prepare.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, it was completely different. For one, we didn't, we weren't on ship. Yeah, we were a mew, but we took 747 straight to Kuwait City this time and flew there on commercial jets. And then the camp, when we got to the camp, it was a lot different. So the first camp was spartan, light conditions, I kid you not. We were eating MREs and sleeping on dirt. And then the second camp had pizza Hut on it, you know, and so like, it had a little coffee thing and it had like a tent that had bootleg movies that were playing all the time and stuff like that. But what was cool about that camp was there was actually for the first time in my service, I, I intercountered, I encountered other military personnel who were coalition forces. And so that was kind of interesting as well, you know. But yeah, we, we did get briefed when we were there, like, hey, you guys are definitely going to go into a hot part of this country. You need to be ready.

[David Rutherford]

And so what was that like? I mean, how do you get ready? I mean, obviously you've done all your preliminary training, but now, you know, the, the counterinsurgency was building. They were, their tactics were evolving. Is there a moment where you guys, obviously you're getting turnover feedback from the other Marines that are operating the other army units? Did you guys have to alter or change tactics or learn something new on the ground?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, completely different set of workup that we did. We did like a two week course at March Air Force Base where we, we had OP4 living in like an abandoned part of the base housing, and we were gonna go in and patrol and we lived for like a. A week and a half with these guys with sim rounds kind of almost simulating exactly what we were going to be doing.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, that's cool.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, I. I thought, well, and that's. The mu. The MEW was very locked on with that. You know, the. The leadership in the MEW was like, hey, we're gonna not send these guys back to another Cold War iteration where they're gonna learn something that they're not gonna use to. And so right before we left, we were at March Air Force Base, and we did that training cycle, and that was extremely helpful. And, like, individually, personally getting ready, like, everyone kind of handled it different. In my platoon, we did have two Marines who went ua. You know, they. They. They checked out, you know, and so, like, it. Like I said, it is always a choice. It's always kind of that choice. It's not just. It's not like, once you're graduated boot camp, like, you still got to choose to be that Marine that you're supposed to be and not be kind of that. That other Marine.

[David Rutherford]

What was it like getting, like, new guys in now? And how many. How many guys that, you know, had an actual combat pump? And then what was it like with the new guys in that integration?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Conflictual. A lot of conflict was coming in because there was a lot of ego involved once you're a combat veteran. And. And the corporals and sergeants, yeah, they were God's gift to the infantry, you know, and you knew guys who are coming in, you don't know jack squat because you haven't been in one day of a firefight and then, you know, six months of a camping trip. So there was a lot of that. We did get in trouble. You know, there were guys who got brought up on charges for hazing in that iteration, The. The one I showed up in, no one ever got brought up on charges. But that second one, there was some definitely. I would. I would call it inappropriate stuff going on as well. And so that was handled accordingly, you know, And. But, yeah, the new guys coming in, they were scared at first, and then after a while, they just. They just were in the suck long enough. Like, this sucks. And we're all here together, right? Like, you got the right idea, dude. So.

[David Rutherford]

And that's such a critical piece of something to learn in your life, right? Like, we all have this natural propensity under that duress in the sock. Like, we just. It's just natural to want to. And moan. It's just. We're, you know, I mean, we're human beings, but, like, the guy that gets it first, like, to look at the dudes around you and be like, all right, that's a hard right there. I'm gonna just mimic him, right? I'm gonna just do what he does. I'm gonna. You know, if I see him do like I'm. And it's like learning that early as a new guy is so valuable in anything you do, right? And any. Working for any business or any whatever, like you. You. You see? All right, what's the best way, as a person who doesn't know anything to. To gain the respect of others by doing what I'm told. Not bitching, not making it worse, not making it more problematic, but just, like, solid commitment to whatever it is that you need me to do, I'm here to do it.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah. And we were really fortunate. Our platoon sergeant stayed as the platoon sergeant for those two deployments. And so he. He was a constant stoic presence. You know, even when we changed commanders, we got a new lieutenant. You know, we had the same gunnery sergeant, and it was just a very appropriate man to be put in that job. And he. He prepared his platoon as best as he could, and he did a fine job doing it. And then, yeah, there was always someone there to look up to. You know, when I was either a PFC or lance corporal or even a corporal, there was, like, a gunnery sergeant who I could go, well, I can just mimic that guy and what he's doing with my squad. And that's. That's good to go.

[David Rutherford]

That's cool. All right. Talk about your own personal experience now in that second deployment, because this is deployment. You were injured, so why don't you. Why don't you take us through, like, a few weeks before then. Then the op, you got injured, and then we'll. We'll go from there.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So I got married in between deployments.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, congratulations, man.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I went to Florida on a 96 and met my wife down there with a battle buddy of mine who was from the Pensacola area. Yeah, because on a 96, you can't go from Camp Lejeune to Salt Lake and. Yeah, back to anything. I married a girl from down there, and she was pregnant with my son. And so I had that going through my head, and I. I was actually really concerned about it. You know, one of the reasons we got married in the courthouse outside Camp LeJune is because we had planned a wedding in Pensacola, but Lance Corporal shouldn't have planned because that. That schedule got moved up, you know, and wedding got canceled. And I was like, well, if something does happen, I want to make sure that my. My child is taken care of. Let's just get this legal on the books, and then we'll work it out later, you know.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so that was there. And then.

[David Rutherford]

That's a massive. That's a massive thing. Like, it's difficult for people. You're. You're living such a transitory life as is, so finding roots, being in one place. You're. You're. Your family is your teammates, and the whole, Your whole focus, like, your whole world is relative to that. And. And then all of a sudden, you bring like. How old was your. Your wife at the time?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

She was.

[David Rutherford]

She's 19. You're 21 at the time, Right. She's pregnant. You've got one combat deployment under your belt, and you're fixing to get ready to go get another one. Like, you guys are kids, man. Like, literal kids dealing with the most extreme life circumstances that exist. Talk a little bit about how you were managing that together and then independently.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, so together we. We were actually introduced by. By my buddy, right? And his fiance, who he got married to, was my wife's best friend. And so we had kind of a community to. To. To lean on as well. And then where I'm from, Salt Lake City, Utah. Marriage, young star family. Young. Is. Is the. The expectation. I'm not lds. I was actually raised Catholic. But, like, it still is kind of like the expectation.

[David Rutherford]

It should be the expectation everywhere. I mean, God, if we could go back to that, we. We would reduce so many of the problems that we have.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Agreed. And so we were handling it as best we could. You know, my wife was very dependent on her mother. Like, she was still 19 years old. And they. They were. They're from Pensacola, so they're. They're. They're not. They're in the loop with the military to a certain extent. Right. Like, they understand the game, and so they understood, like, okay, let's. Let's make sure she's taken care of. And. And she was. And so her family, I'm very grateful to. And then my family was very supportive as well. Like, my father was very patriotic, and he was very proud of my service. And my mother, even though she didn't agree with it and was heartbroken, she was very supportive of me starting a family as well. She liked that. And. And in my mind, I kind of was like, well, yeah, why not? You know what I'm saying? Like, I'll start a family and then I'll go, you know, maybe possibly get killed in combat.

[David Rutherford]

Well, yeah, and that's the thing. Like, that's the thing that people Are like you, like you did what? Like, like hell yeah, let's go. Do. I mean, you, your, all your attention should be on being a Marine and staying alive. But what people don't realize, right, There's. There's a texture of life that exists when your life is, is when you're living a culture of death. Yeah, right, Right. And that, and that texture is, is fragile. Right. You don't know how much you got. You don't know how long it's going to last. So meeting somebody, falling in love, wanting to have a child, like, it's like, no, I want to get after this because I don't know in a year from now if I'm even going to be here. And I, and I think people like people. You know, there's always the, the funny memes about, you know, young Marines, you know, going to the strip club and getting married and, you know, getting the new vehicle and buying the house and then they have nothing when they get. So, you know, that's all. But the reality is there's a sense of urgency to live life to its fullest. That kind of governs this behavior a little bit, don't you think?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I'd agree with that. 100. And that's what I wanted to get married. I wanted to have children. And I thought, okay, I might have an opportunity to do it with this beautiful girl who, who was attracted to me as well at the time. And she still is. We're still married, by the way. So we're one of the few that made it through that, you know, and there's plenty of other stories, but she was, she was a rock when I got wounded. She was a great, great wife to have great partner through all of that. But yeah, so managing was just kind of like, hey, I want to make sure on my end, like, legally you're good. Like, I know my mom and dad are going to do the right thing regardless. You know, they're good people. They're not going to be like, oh, our grandsons, you know, nothing to do with us or nothing. Yeah, Kia or whatever. That's not who my parents are at by any means. But I still wanted to make sure. Okay, legally, like just for her sake and for my child's sake, they understand. Like, this is what I wanted. You know what I'm saying? So we handled that. And adapting. My wife is great at adapting because like you tell a 19 year old girl, hey, cancel your wedding plans on the phone because I'm gonna be leaving for Iraq a month sooner and they can't they could maybe take off at that point in time and she. Yeah, no, we're gonna, we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna go through with this and we're gonna get it done. She was a rock star and her friend, they would put together care packages for the whole platoon for us, you know, so when we're there for Christmas, they send everybody Christmas socks and stuff like that. So they were rock stars.

[David Rutherford]

I mean, that's a whole nother thing too. I mean, imagine being a 19 year old, right woman who's pregnant, freshly married and your husband goes to the most dangerous place in the world, right? As a marine into combat into Iraq, I mean the magnitude of the, the not confidence, what is it? It's, it's dedication. Agreed to make sure that not only you but your, your platoon mates know you're going to be cared for. Know that people are praying for you, know that you're loved, know that she's not going anywhere, know that she's all in. Like, that's gotta be like. Does it counterbalance the fear of having a child and her at home and going to common knowing that she's all in that back at home?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

Does it almost make you, does it almost make you more focused, more dedicated when you're downrange?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I would say it does. It gives you that something to fight for. And that's something after my injury I definitely learned, you know, and like I said, she would put together care packages. So you're Talking about a 19 year old girl, barefoot and pregnant, walking into the convenience store and buying like 10 patches of Copenhagen long cut or a red man. I. The red man long cut is what I liked. And so I'd send her a letter like, hey, send me more red man long cut. And she's like, they stare at me so badly because I'm pregnant and I'm buying all this red man long cut. And I'm just like, you know, so it definitely, it gives you that, that energy, I think for sure there's something with that energy there. And, and maybe it's not everyone's cup of tea and that's fine. You know, maybe some guys better off being alone. And that's how they, that, that warfighter mentality is there for me. It was always motivating to have a family that I was fighting for.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, that's cool. That's beautiful. That's America right there. Before we finish that whole thing, before you go to a deployment on your second deployment, let's. I just want to give a Another shout out to another massive, incredible sponsor for the David Rutherford show, and that's Hillsdale College. One of the amazing things about Hillsdale College is they have really some unbelievable free courses. And you know, one of the courses that really just pops, that I love so much is the course about the American Revolution and American colonialism. And, and really what we were like before we actually led to 1776, you know, because it wasn't like the colonials woke up on that day, July 4th, and we're like, all right, let's get to business. No, they've been working towards this, towards this independence for years. And there's 150 years of history that made the American Revolution possible. And this is what you're going to learn while you go through Hillsdale's free courses. All right? And you have to understand, this is a brand new six part documentary series. Hillsdale College professors do teach you the religions, politics, culture and economic ideas that shaped a uniquely American culture doing during our colonial period. And you're going to learn all kinds of incredible things about the idea of liberty, right? Especially religious liberty. And what this inspired the settlers of America to cross the Atlantic. There's all different kinds of things you're going to learn. You're going to learn about how the local governments and how they ruled and protected themselves. You're going to rule, learn about why we're so virtuous, why the country used virtue as this component which leads to peace, you know, and then you're also going to learn about the beginning of America as its nation. Right? And it, and, and what Hillsdale professors focus on is really kind of the idea of forging the American character. Right? And that's where we come from, the virtue, the ideas that led to our American character, which was the cornerstone of what made the revolution possible. Right? All right, now again, this is an incredible opportunity for you. Why? Because I want to tell you the Hillsdale College miniseries is completely free and it's easy to access. Right? Hillsdale not only offers this incredible course, but but 40 other free online courses, including courses on C.S. lewis, the stories of the book of Genesis, the rise and fall of the Roman Republic, and you can go even deeper on the American foundation in the Constitution and by the way, all for free. All right? This is an absolute unbelievable thing. Now all you gotta do is go right now to Hillsdale Edu David to enroll. There's no cost and it's easy to get started. All you got to do is go to Hillsdale Edu forward slash David to enroll for free today. Go get it done. Thank you Hillsdale. Love you.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best Plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best PetsBest Insurance Services LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Co. Or Independence American Insurance Co. For terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Co. Or Ms. Transverse Insurance Co. And administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10 homes.com knows having the right agent can make or break your home search. That's why they provide home shoppers with an agent directory that gives you a detailed look at each agent's experience, like the number of closed sales in a specific neighborhood, average price range and more. It lets you easily connect with all the agents in the area you're searching so you can find the right agent with the right experience and ultimately the right home for you. Homes.com, we've done your homework. Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines unrivaled basketball. Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO Max. Ulta Beauty's Big Holiday Beauty Sale is back with up to 50% off. Must have gifts shop irresistible deals like the Shark Beauty Flex Style and Benefit Cosmetics Travel size mascaras with new offers weekly same day pickup or delivery and our trusted associates. We make holiday shopping effortless. Head into Ulta Beauty today. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.

[David Rutherford]

How are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers with conservation? I've saved my soil and I provide.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Food for my community.

[David Rutherford]

I wouldn't have been able to do that without the NRCS programs. A lot of farmers are thinking that they're not able to farm next year. Crop prices are below cost of production.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so these programs are what keep farmers in the business of farming, protect.

[David Rutherford]

Conservation funding and staff that supports farmers.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Paid for by Invest in Our Land.

[David Rutherford]

All right, take us through going over. You know the few weeks leading up to where you got injured. And then walk us through that experience if you could.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah, so we were, we were in the triangle of death there near Iskandaria in Musaib, just south of Baghdad, doing a lot of work on the main Highway, Highway 1 that runs between Basra and Baghdad, and doing a lot of ied, counter IED stuff like that. And so the, I was getting pretty good at being outside the wire because I was a forward observer. I had had one combat deployment under my belt and the lieutenant liked to have me around because I could fix a radio, you know, and I knew how to talk on it. So like, he kept me out there as much as he could. And we were doing patrol based stuff. And then as we were starting to step off, we were actually had, we had National Guard unit there. The advanced party was there. We were getting ready hand off. So we were doing like joint patrols with these National Guard guys, telling them, hey, this is a bad alley, this is a bad street, doing that stuff. And I was spending more time on the FOB at this point in this fob, Iskandaria, forward operating basis, which was on a power plant right on the Euphrates River. And we got mortared there probably twice a week the whole time we were there. So we got very complacent, unfortunately, with the mortar attacks. And so I was on, on the fob and our tents had a hesco barriers around them. And essentially what I was doing was I was getting ready to come home. So I was done off the highway. We weren't at a patrol base in town, we were on the fob, just kind of doing security or in and around the fob. And I was working out at the gym, bulking up to come home, actually trying to, trying to put back on some muscle mass. So when I came home, the wife would be depressed and so like I was spending, you know, an hour in the little base gym they had there at the Fog, which wasn't, it wasn't fancy or anything, but it, you know, Marines, like we're gonna find stuff to lift heavy and grunt and do all that stuff. And then one day we got hit with a mortar attack right on top of us. And I initially thought it was outgoing, so we were kitty corner from the artillery paws and I thought they were shooting just outgoing, which happened as well, you know. And so that's when I, I was hit with that mortar inside the tent. It was midday and I just got off the phone from. Because we had phone banks on that FOB as Well, I just got off the phone with my wife.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, wow. So literally, you hang up, like, you turn around detonates, and then what'd you take? Was it just shrapnel? Did you. Did you get hit by the blast? What?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I was. I was back in the tent napping when it. It. So I was probably like 20, 30 minutes after the phone conversation, and I was getting ready. I was taking. I was on rack ops to do night patrols around the fob. Right. So I'm getting my sleep in now. And so I was racked out just in my skinny shorts, all my stuff right next to me. And we had the. The red. Like, they were like tin metal racks that were in. In the plywood floors and the white tents and that they would soak in with kerosene to keep the dust out as well.

[David Rutherford]

Yep. Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And then we had these, like, LG air conditioning units that they put on boards and stuff and put in the tents, which were decent. But, yeah, the incoming came and it hit across the street first, and so woke me up. And then my sergeant from my fire support team came in the tent, and he just told everybody, hey, they're right on top of us. Get in the bunkers if you can. I rolled out of the rack and had just enough time to grab a slack and a Kevlar and kind of pull it over the top of me. And then it just felt like I got hit with a semi truck after that.

[David Rutherford]

Wow.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And I was out for at least. At least a minute. And I came to, and I don't really know how I first got initially on my feet, but I was on my feet and I was on fire. So this left side was on fire, my whole left side. And my sergeant was putting me out with his hands, and he just. He said. He said to me, stop, drop, and roll. Because we were next to the tent hatch. And so I stopped, dropped, rolled out the tent hatch, rolled myself out. And I was still in a lot of shock at that point. So I had taken shrapnel. I had a collapse right lung. This arm is fused fully. So, like, it was kind of just hanging there.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, my God.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Blown it kind of out. Like, I'm missing, like, 20 of the elbow joint that's now just kind of like a matted bunch of bone. And so I was there in the tent, kind of bleeding out and dying at that moment in time and still in shock. And my sergeant, who was hit, but not as severely as me, he was able to run and go to the talk or the headquarters right and he takes off that direction towards a building when you're in a tent city. So we're intense that are in a row, right? Just so everybody understands. I know you understand, David, but, like, we're intense, and they have these hesco barriers around us. And the mortar actually hit the top of the hesco barrier of my tent, so I was definitely within. There's 120 millimeter mortar.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, God.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Which. This. This is morbid joke. I tell everybody I have a mortar trifecta, David, because I fired 81s on my first deployment in the battle of Nazareth. I fired 60s on that second deployment at a mosque actually off of Tampa. And then I got hit with the 120. So I got the trifecta.

[David Rutherford]

I. I would have liked if you had been on an artillery unit for the third going out, but I guess take. Taking one is. Is definitely put you at the top of that list, brother. Good God. All right, tell me about getting treated. Triage the medics that saved your life. Tell me about those guys.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so I was behind that tent, and it was just me by myself there. I. I come to my feet, I pull. I remember pulling myself up on. On the wire of the Esco barrier and walking to the next tent over in the. In. In the rope there. And there I actually did lay down on a rack, and I started saying prayers. I started praying. Like I said, I was a Catholic kid, grew up in Salt Lake City. I started saying prayers I was taught then. And then that's when the shock kind of, like, went away completely. I was in pain at that point in time, like the shock hadn't mitigated the pain, but that's when the shock kind of like went away. And just something came over me that said, you're not dead. Go get out of this tent that's going to be on fire soon. That tent burned down, too. And so I walked out, and when I was walking on the bottom of my feet, the skin was peeling off on the plywood floorboard. And I remember that just being the most painful part of that experience. And I walk out the front of that tent hatch, and my first sergeant is there in kit in. In. In kevlar flack. And he's looking at me in shorts. And his first instinct, he told me this when I was in the hospital and came visiting. He's like, my first instinct was to chew your ass out, you know, because you're not in your gear. And. And then he did a double take on me and realized, sk off of my body. And so He, He. They did. They called like, the chair carry him and Foreman did the chair carry it felt like they threw me in the back of the Humvee pretty rough. But, you know, no, whatever we needed to get me to help. And so I remember riding in the Humvee and telling my first sergeant, and First Sergeant Wooten, if you're listening, I love you, brother. And he. He was telling me, you're gonna make it. You're gonna be okay. And I was just telling him, just tell my son I love him. Tell my son I'm proud of him, you know, and he's just. He was calming me down.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And as a good leader should. And he probably didn't have any clue, you know, he didn't know if I was going to make it or not. He didn't know about the golden hour. He didn't know about the cash and the hospital up in Baghdad and all those amazing people who did save my life. Surgery after surgery after this, you know. But I remember being rushed to the FOB kind of aid station there. And that's when they put the tinfoil blanket over me and they gave me my first shot of morphine. And I really calmed down after that. And I was just kind of like listening to the radio like, hey, where's the helicopter at, Doc? And Doc's just kind of like, dude, you're wild. You know, like, you're a crazy dude. Like, I hope you make it, Griff. You're like, you know. And so I remember being pulled on the stretcher and the helicopter landing. They loaded us in that thing. And I remember flying up to Baghdad and the crew chief was really good to me because I. I wanted to see Baghdad. So. Because I. I'd always been in the south for my two deployments, I never actually got up to Baghdad. And there was always the stories of the Green Zone and all this other stuff and. And guys would get, you know, hey, we need 12 Marines to go be security for this convoy to Baghdad. I'm like, oh, I want to go in. The lieutenant's like, no, my RTOs staying here with me. You know, he's not going anywhere. And the one time I actually did get to kind of maybe possibly go, it got canceled, of course. And I slapped in the back of a 7 ton on the Bob. And so, like, he's sitting there calling out minutes, you know, five minutes, three minutes, two minutes. And then I look up and he just kind of looks at me and he's like. He moves out the way and he goes that's what you want to look. And it's the dome, you know, and across swords and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, thanks, bro.

[David Rutherford]

Check. I almost had to die to see it. But I'm, I'm here, I'm good. Oh my God. That's funny.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

They landed and carried me into that hospital. I remember that. And they asked me, you know, name, rank, blood type, and I was out after that. Yeah, I was induced for 12 days, I think. 12.

[David Rutherford]

Oh my God. Griff.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And I woke up at Brooke Army Medical center in San Antonio, Texas. But I had been transplanted or transported from Baghdad to Germany, to Bethesda and then to San Antonio.

[David Rutherford]

All right, let's. How many surgeries did you get in Baghdad? Did you get any in Germany? And then how many in, in, in San Antonio?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So 27 total is what I call definitely about half a dozen life saving ones there in Baghdad where my heart stopped for a minute. And they, So I have a scar right here which is called a cardiac window where they drill a hole and then they start your heart directly with the stuff right on top of the heart. So, yeah, lots of good people in that system that saved my butt. And I never even got to thank them, you know, because they. I was in a coma. And so then a few more surgeries in Germany. There's really like stabilization stuff for the travel.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And then like 20 in Burke Arnold Medical Center. Mostly. Mostly that was with the arm. They did a couple of these. A Colonel Haida down there, I don't know if he's, you know, I don't keep track of him, but he was a great orthopedic surgeon down there. I got a great story with him. And then a lot of of the burn scars was handled as well. So I'm burnt burn 32%. And of that 32%, about half of that is what they call full thickness, which is down my lower extremity on my left side. The calf got burnt off too. Like all the flesh all the way to the bone. That's what full thickness? Yeah, second degree, third degree. And then there's third degree full thickness which is being burned to the bone. And so like about 15 of my lower extremity. Well, my lower extremity, about 15% of my body had that. And so that's what they took care of at Brooke Army Medical Center. And like I said, the orthopedics there, great people there as well. You know, I got to see my son the first time was at Brooke Army Medical center there.

[David Rutherford]

So that's the whole other thing that I has been just going through my mind is you get hit. How soon does your wife find out where was she in the pregnancy? And then, you know, that reunion when you came out of the coma. Just describe that a little bit for us.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So my son was born November and I was wounded January. So he was born November when I was there. And I vividly remember it because I got the word and I smoked cigars with my boys on the checkpoint on Tampa. And then she was told she was actually, she was at Camp Lejeune. So she was getting ready for me to come back because we were like, it was like a week left, you know, and so we were preparing to live as a married couple off base next door to our friends who were also going to live off base next to us. And so we. She was preparing. She was actually at the Dollar General there in Jacksonville, North Carolina with her best friend, my buddy's wife at the time. Grateful she was with her because she did get the call and it was, was hard for her to take. And so she was grateful. And my son was already, he was like 2, 3 months old. And so she was able to give my son to her best friend and kind of just handled that, that she was being told by the officers at that point in time and, and that's when things really started moving for her. You know, she, she had never flown a whole lot and then she was going to fly from Chicago to San Antonio and with a three month old baby, you know, and, and so she, she was getting flown to where I was going to be at and handled in that way. And so was my father. My father got very close in that moment. So he had, he had. My cousin was actually in the Marine Corps at the time. He was in Ramadi. He was a lieutenant colonel and he, he was telling my father stuff he wasn't really supposed to be telling them at the time.

[David Rutherford]

Right.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so my dad was very well prepared and he kind of, I don't want to say feather to nest, but he made sure my wife was taken care of.

[David Rutherford]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so that, that's how she, her, her route kind of was chaotic with that, but everyone wanted to help her and it was, we had a very close knit community around us. But she was in camp of June. My son was three months old. You know, we were getting ready for a big homecoming and it was a big homecoming, just not the one we planned.

[David Rutherford]

No, I, I can't imagine what that's like. You know, obviously I've I've had a lot of friends that have gotten busted up pretty good and, and a bunch that are dead. But it's that, you know, it's the. What is it? It's the reality of, it's the reality of, of how fragile life is. Right. And that you can't deny it. You have to live in it, you have to sit in it. And then, and then, especially for your wife, here she is showing up at your bedside and you've got a recovery. I mean, this is not going to be quick. It's not like. And you're going to have permanent, you know, challenges basically. So it's like processing all of that together. What were the ways that your family worked together to get through that, to help you get through it and that the military helped you?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah. So the military, they, they did a excellent job of getting me alive and home and then extended because I was at the end of my four year contract actually, so they, they extended my contract so I could finish my pt, my physical therapy and stuff. And Brook Army Center. Brook Army Medical center is actually, it's, it's probably the best military hospital, but maybe I'm biased, you know what I'm saying?

[David Rutherford]

No, I agree. They're phenomenal down there.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So I can't have enough good things to say about the people down there and everything that they do. Kid. They were very kind to my wife, you know, and it, it's a functioning army base down there as well. And so back then too, in 2005, there was a lot, a lot of attention being directed towards us, you know, and so, so my wife, who has kind of not been, you know, she wasn't the homecoming queen or anything like that. She wasn't really suited to take the attention. She, she kind of passed the buck on to my dad, who, who handled it very well and could be like, hey, it's time to go. These people need their privacy. And he kind of just became that gatekeeper to her. Taking care of my son and also taking care of me and herself.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, because that's big too. I mean, here you, you've committed to this other person and, and now they're. You don't know what the future is going to be with them. And your health, I mean, it's, it's all these unknowns that are really the profound impacts of war, you know, is, is, you know, yes, it's the deployments, it's the training cycles, but it's the real impacts of war. It's being injured, you know, in an almost catastrophic way. It's. It's coming around from that, managing that, and then. And then it's like, all right, what's next with my life?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah.

[David Rutherford]

So how did you guys make that decision? What. What was the. The process of going, all right, that's enough. I'm done. And. And now we're gonna go move here, we're gonna do this and. And then start living life post Marine Corps. Describe a little bit of that for us.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Yeah. So in the hospital there, she. She really did take lead in taking care of the family, and it was just like my job just to heal. And so she. She continued to lead in that. That regard, you know? And like, you're saying the cost of war and not to toot my wife's horn, but it should be tooted a little bit because she. She was wrapping bandages over my burn scars from war, and she. She paid very close attention on how to do that because the doctors were like, hey, you can't do this wrong, because this could cause an infection. And she was very, very close and very intense with making sure I was going to be able to heal appropriately when she never signed up for any of that. Right. And so me being from Utah, I was thinking, mel, maybe we go back to Salt Lake. But I didn't really want to. Like, one of the things that attracted me to the Marine Corps was bases were in California or North Carolina or Hawaii. They weren't in winter states. Right. And so my wife was from Florida, Pensacola. And she had been so good to me, I kind of thought, well, let's. Let's lean into this, and let's move to Pensacola near her family. And it worked out well because her family was very, like, they're clued in on the game, right? Like, they live in and around Pensacola Naval Air Station, so they're not, like, foreign to military stuff at all. And so I also was. I was on. I wasn't ever on the fence. I'm on the fence. It's maybe my biggest regret, David, is that I didn't try harder to stay in the military in doing a job that I could do, because I was offered those things. I was told, hey, we'll find a place for you. The Marine Corps still values you. We'll find a place for you. And I told those people, well, I'm going to go to college. And I could have went to college whenever, you know, that's. It's one of my things I tell my family and my friends is like, I kind of wish I would have been like, no, wait, this Isn't done yet, Griff. You're not done here. You can go to college whenever. And so that was part of my decision making process too, was like, hey, there's a nice college down there in Pensacola. I have in laws and a wife and this new life. And so I'm going to lean into that, that part of this and kind of close that chapter of the Marine Corps, which like I said, it's probably my biggest regret.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, I feel, I feel a lot of that too. Like I, I, I ended before, I think I should have ended. And yeah, I battled that. That's why I kind of chased it with Blackwater and the agency after and all that for sure. But you know, as a kid, you're so young and you're not sure and you know, you just like, well, I got to make the right decision for my wife and kid and, and so you do that. Talk to, talk to me a little bit about your transition because obviously that regret in there a little bit, what was that like? And how long did it take you to get to where you're like, nope, I'm good, That's, that's my past. That's good. I'm proud I did the right thing. I mean, you're four and a half. Your five years in the military is probably some of that, the heaviest things I've heard. I mean you, there was no waiting around to get after it, man. You got into it and you got into it quick. And so how long did it take to get to that place where you're like, all right, I'm ready to move into this next full chapter of my life?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Oh, well, last month, really, it was years. It was years. It was years. So I, I really did lean into like the college and, and thinking, okay, I'm gonna be a college student now. And when I was wounded, I was, I was, it wasn't a moral wound, but it was, was a mental wound to a certain extent too, where I thought, I'm not this infantry gun hoe guy that I was. And my physicality suffered because of it.

[David Rutherford]

It.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I, I did not invest in my own health and my own physicality like I thought I should have or like I think I should have now. Like, I regret that part a little bit too. And not being as physically fit as I possibly could have been as a, as a wounded guy in those first couple years, you know, and I struggled with that for a minute. You know, I gained a lot of weight, I started drinking heavily. I was in a college environment. Marriage troubles cropped up you know what I'm saying? And. And I went through all of that. So, I mean, I wasn't. So I gave myself to Jesus in 2012. That's probably where I actually came to full realization. Like, hey, you need to put this in the past, and you're a new person. You're the same person, but, like, you know, you have the experiences, but what.

[David Rutherford]

Got you to want to be saved? What was the thing?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

So I grew up Catholic, and I was always still. I. I was kind of dogmatic Christian, you know, as a Catholic, and I was living in Pensacola, which is a very different kind of culture down there. And so my son's kindergarten teacher had actually invited us to go to a Baptist church. And I started. I was. I was reading and I was studying history. I first started one. I first. First wanted electrical engineering, which was not what I should have been doing. And then I chose history, and then I. I found religion in kind of a more scholastic sense, too, in that point where I was studying in college. But also now this Bible study thing that's evangelical and different for me, was there. And so I made that decision to get baptized in 2012, actually, after my wife did. She was never baptized down there, there initially. And so she. She stepped forward first, and then I. I got baptized after that. In my heart, I think I really chose to. To be a follower of Jesus a long time ago, you know, when I was a child, probably. But we all ebb and flow, right? A little bit. And I. I chased war, you know, and I chased that to a certain extent. But, yeah, so I wanted to be a better man for my wife and my son. And I seen, like we talked about earlier, imitating these better men, whether they're gunnery sergeants in the Marine Corps or whether they're deacons at the Baptist church, Vietnam veterans, some of them, you know what I'm saying? I see those guys, I go, there's something there that I'm missing. And that's when I chose to give my life to Christ.

[David Rutherford]

Dude, that's beautiful, man. Thanks for sharing that. All right, well, we'll wrap it up a little bit here. So. So last two questions, first and foremost, what are some of the most significant things you took away from what the Marine Corps turned you into and shaped you into as a man? And then what are the things you learned about that brotherhood and what makes it so. So, so strong and so. So much a part of what the core is?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

It's discipline. First, like, first and foremost, Marines have to be disciplined to be a Marine you know, and not giving up. Like, if I get knocked down 10 times, I'm gonna get up 11, you know what I'm saying? So I'm gonna get up every time until there's no more breath in my lungs. And literally had a right lung collapse. I still had a left one, and I'm still gonna get up. I'm still gonna do what I need to do and be in that fight. And so that. That changed me a lot from. I even see in my peer group of the kids I grew up with, you know, and the men they are now. And I don't want to, like, you know, shame them in any ways, but I. I've often told my wife, like, if I was never a Marine, I would never even talk to you. You know, I would have never had that confidence in me doing the things I need to do, and that's that discipline, right when no one's watching. And then I can have the confidence to put my name forward, to, hey, please have a baby with me and let's start a family and stuff like that. Or, you know, whatever it is, let me go to the college professor and be like, hey, this paper is good. You read it and he throws it in the trash. I can go write another one without being too butthurt or whatever.

[David Rutherford]

All right, last question. Last question. What happens if your son comes to you and says, dad, I want to be a Marine?

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I will encourage him to look at the army because there's a lot more options, you know, for him. And I would be very proud if he chose any service to me blunt. And we've talked about the National Guard. He's talked about it a little bit with me. I think it's a great option for him if he wanted to do that. You know, my grandfather was Navy. My dad was Army. I was the Marine. And so if he went back to the army, it wouldn't hurt my feelings too much. And we could keep our dollar bet we have on the Army Navy game going and stuff like that. So, yeah, I would be. I would be overjoyed with pride. Pride.

[David Rutherford]

That's awesome. Griff, I can't thank you enough, man. Quite honestly, it's one of my favorite interviews I've ever done. I've done a lot of them, too, man. And I just. I think you represent what the epitome of a Marine is, and I think the way you're able to articulate not only your experiences, but the impact of what the Corps did for you, what it provided for you and your family, even though you almost got killed. It is an honorable way with which you represent the Marine Corps. And I'm just, I'm really grateful that you were willing to come on and share your stories with us.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

I appreciate it, David, and thank you so much for the time. And I'm not perfect, you know. No one is. Can I plug my book real quick for it?

[David Rutherford]

Yeah. 100% black Mormon Joe.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

It is available on Amazon. A really good veteran army guy, Vincent Vargas, turned me on to Amazon. Kdp. I got into writing when I was in college. This is, this is really good. I spend a lot of time writing it and I spent a lot of money getting it edited as well. And so please go check it out. Go read it. It is not a memoir, but it is an Iraq war story based on my experiences. And there might be some, you know, trench humor in there for everybody to enjoy. But thank you so much, David. Thank you for what you're doing, Bill.

[David Rutherford]

Yeah, God bless you, brother.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Likewise.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

What kind of programs does this school have? How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings, and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by Holmes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's all so you can make the right decision for your family. Holmes.com We've done your homework. Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO Max. Hear that? It's holiday cheer. Arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And and you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.

[David Rutherford]

How are USDA staff cuts and budget challenges affecting farmers with conservation? I've saved my soil and I provide.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Food for my community.

[David Rutherford]

I wouldn't have been able to do that without the NRCS program. A lot of farmers are thinking that they're not able to farm next year. Crop prices are below cost of production.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

And so these programs are what keep farmers in the business of farming, protect.

[David Rutherford]

Conservation funding and staff that supports farmers.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Paid for by investing our land.

[David Rutherford]

Owning a home is full of surprises. Some wonderful, some not so much. And when something breaks, it can feel like the whole day unravels. That's why HomeServe exists for as little.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

As $4.99 a month. Month.

[David Rutherford]

You'll always have someone to call, a trusted professional ready to help, bringing peace of mind to four and a half million homeowners nationwide. For plans starting at just $4.99 a month, go to homeserve.com that's homeserve.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month.

[Griff (Marine Veteran)]

Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.