David Rutherford Show: Inside Jeff Garmire’s 45-Day Appalachian Trail Record: Pain, Fear, and Unbelievable Grit | Ep. 79

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: David Rutherford Show: Inside Jeff Garmire’s 45-Day Appalachian Trail Record: Pain, Fear, and Unbelievable Grit | Ep. 79
Date: November 24, 2025
Guests: Host/Interviewer (David Rutherford), Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)
Main Theme:
Exploring the psychological, physical, and spiritual demands of breaking the fasted-known-time (FKT) record on the 2,200-mile Appalachian Trail. Jeff Garmire shares his journey overcoming adversity, pain, and fear, highlighting mental resilience, adaptability, and the transformative power of endurance challenges.

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the inspiring and punishing journey of Jeff Garmire, who set a new unsupported Appalachian Trail speed record (45 days, 8 hours, 37 minutes), dissecting the preparation, problem-solving, pain management, and emotional resilience required for such feats. The conversation frequently touches on broader life lessons—about presence, freedom, adapting to uncertainty, and post-challenge life transitions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Appalachian Trail: Rugged Beauty and Mental Demands

• Both host and Jeff share a deep appreciation for the Appalachian Trail’s ruggedness.
• The trail’s technical difficulty, changing conditions, and unpredictability make every step require attention.
• “[It’s] so engaging because every step matters. There’s usually a root or a rock in your way as well.” — Jeff (05:34)

2. Origins: From College Dropout to Endurance Athlete

• Jeff’s passion for hiking began after dropping out of college, seeking something more meaningful than prescribed academia.
• He was inspired by meeting Pacific Crest Trail thru-hikers as a teen:
  “I remembered that we’d met these people that were through hiking the Pacific Crest Trail when I was about 16... I was 20 years old. It was like, this is going to be the time where I figure out what to do with my life.” — Jeff (07:54)
• The trail became a rite of passage with high stakes, pushing Jeff to face real-world consequences.

3. Trail Community & Human Connection

• Jeff highlights the diversity and instant kinship amongst hikers, stressing that adversity brings down barriers to genuine connection.
• “We can just have really cool conversations and become friends with anyone if you have shared goals.” — Jeff (13:14)
• The outdoors fosters vulnerability and honesty that’s often missing in daily life.

4. From Hobby to Obsession: The Need for Presence

• Jeff describes the transition from his finance job to pursuing adventure.
• Depression and a sense of hollowness in conventional life led him to quit and undertake the Triple Crown (hiking the AT, PCT, and CDT in one year).
• “If I don’t change anything, I’ll feel like this forever. So I can do anything. Like I can make any other choice.” — Jeff (18:01)
• In the wilderness, Jeff feels “present” and in sync with natural rhythms, a stark contrast to urban life.

5. Preparing for the Record: Precision & Problem-Solving ([32:17])

• Every detail was planned, from daily calorie intake to gear redundancies and fail-safes.
• Nutrition: Pre-packed daily rations of 8,000–10,000 calories, allowing flexibility but enforcing minimums.
• Gear: Minimalism and dual-use items prioritized; innovations included mounting a headlamp at waist-level to cut through fog.
• "When I'm on the trail, I want to eliminate as many decisions as I can." — Jeff (32:17)
• A big part of success lies in rehearsing failure scenarios: “What's something that could go wrong? How am I going to solve [it]?”

6. Dealing with Adversity: Mindset When Things Go Wrong ([39:20])

• Example: Missing resupply box in Shenandoah (1,300 miles in), forcing a near-starvation 32-mile trek.
• “It’s immediate panic and then it’s just like, okay, well it’s not here. This is my mindset… I’m solving nothing by killing more time here.” — Jeff (39:20)
• Following one problem, “the only option… is a store in 32 miles I can resupply at… this is going to be miserable.”
• The process: Acknowledge frustration → Focus on immediate steps → Accept compounded consequences (physical and logistical) → Maintain hope and effort.
• “If you’ve still got a chance, you still need to give 100%.”

7. Freedom, Pain, and Spiritual Growth

• The conversation often returns to the paradoxical relationship between pain and freedom.
• “There is [freedom] because, you know, in that moment, you made that decision, like, there’s still hope.” — Host (44:50)
• Pain and uncertainty strip away extraneous parts of the self, revealing core values and strength.

8. End-of-Trail Challenges: Sleep Deprivation & Emotion ([55:19], [66:22])

• Jeff describes daily routines near the end:
  • 22+ hours of movement, ~2 hours of sleep wherever possible
  • Packing up in ~3 minutes, eating on the move, meticulous water management
• Sleep deprivation brought hallucinations and emotional rawness:
  • “Stumps are the worst. They always turn into, like, bears or something like that.” — Jeff (55:19)
  • “When I experience sleep deprivation, about 90% of the time, [the Jumanji hunter] pops up somewhere."
• Emotional intensity was both struggle and strength in the final push.

9. Finishing and the Post-Challenge Letdown ([70:40])

• The final miles were surprisingly tough as the main goal receded, making motivation harder.
• “[After finishing] everything shuts down… for 44 and a half days it was motivating, empowering, let’s go for it. And then as I alluded to, the last couple hours were like: just get this done and then it’s done.” — Jeff (70:40)
• Jeff describes the crash of routine, “You’re tasked with 24 hours a day to put back together in a new way when just a week ago you had that 24 hours dialed.”
• Emotional and psychological "resets" are an inextricable part of major endeavors.

10. Proposing at the Finish & Life Transitions ([77:07])

• Jeff recounted proposing to his girlfriend at the end of his trek, in a sleep-deprived haze:
  “There’s a video, but I don’t really know if I nailed all the words… but I got them out. And then we got engaged and it was back.”
• The post-trail transition included moving, re-establishing routines, and reconnecting with coaching and personal projects.
• Jeff underscores the importance of partners supporting one another’s passions.

11. Philanthropy: The Trevor Project ([81:32])

• Jeff raised ~$47,000 for The Trevor Project (supports LGBTQ+ youth with therapy, crisis lines, etc.)
• “If I’m gonna get the spotlight for doing...a record, what if we can deflect some of that into saving people’s lives?...It just felt like this was one of the ways that I could direct money that would be spent on these services that directly do change people's lives.”

12. What’s Next for Jeff

• Cocodona 250 mile race in Arizona (May) and aspirations for further overseas records, new writing projects, and coaching.
• All Jeff’s content/books/social: “Free Outside” (@freeoutside, freeoutside.com)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the Value of the Trail Community:
  “You can just have, like, really cool conversations and become friends with anyone if you have shared goals.” — Jeff (13:14)

• On Problem Solving and Presence:
  “You’re not just moving 20 hours a day, but you’re also thinking 20 hours a day. It’s unlike anything else in real life.” — Jeff (06:23)

• On Adversity and Mindset:
  “If you’ve still got a chance, you still need to give 100%.” — Jeff (42:07)

• On Re-entering Regular Life:
  “Suddenly my routine that had mornings, lunch, evenings all accounted for is completely gone. I’m back in the normal world…. I think we do need some baseline of routine.” — Jeff (70:40)

• On Relationships:
  “If someone doesn’t get it, as long as they can respect that it means something to you—I think that’s kind of what things really boil down to in life.” — Jeff (77:10)

• On Philanthropy:
  “If we can raise some money to just help people live a happy, healthy, long life, especially through those formative years…it brings meaning to life.” — Jeff (81:32)

• On Human Connection & Suffering:
  “We’re all so much more connected than we could ever imagine.” — Host (88:31)

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Segment Timestamps

• 03:05 – Opening: Setting the scene, introduction to Jeff Garmire
• 07:54 – Jeff’s origin story: dropping out, first thru-hike
• 13:14 – Community on the trail, shared human experience
• 18:01 – From finance to adventure; depression as impetus
• 32:17 – Planning the Appalachian Trail record attempt
• 39:20 – When plans go wrong: missing resupply box story
• 55:19 – A day in the life during a record attempt; running on 2 hours' sleep
• 66:22 – Sleep deprivation hallucinations & emotional extremes
• 70:40 – Crossing the finish line, post-trail depression, and routines
• 77:07 – Proposal and life transitions after the trail
• 81:32 – Philanthropy, mental health, The Trevor Project
• 85:16 – What’s next: races, writing, coaching, and advice for listeners
• 88:13 – Final tribute and reflections

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a rich exploration—both technical and philosophical—of what it means to push physical and mental boundaries in search of genuine freedom and meaning. Jeff Garmire’s story is more than a tale of endurance: it’s a blueprint for facing adversity, adapting to change, and coming out transformed on the other side. His vulnerability and clearly articulated insights offer valuable lessons for listeners far beyond the world of ultra-endurance sports.

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Transcript

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[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

What does it take to run, walk, hike 2200 miles in 45 days? Find out today on the David Rutherford Show. All right, everybody, I'm going to tell you. One of the greatest places that I've ever lived in my entire life was out in Asheville, North Carolina. I love North Carolina as it is, but out in Asheville in particular. And the reason was, is because of the hiking and the running trails that were there. And so when I'd come back from overseas, I'd get home and my way to find that peace in my heart, in my head, post deployment craziness was to get out on the Appalachian Trail with my dog, Zulu, and just go for two, three, four hour runs and just escape out into the wilderness. Well, today my guest is a gentleman named Jeff Garmire. And recently he finished an unsupported southbound Appalachian Trail and set a record for 45 days, 8 hours and 37 minutes, beating the former record of Joe my favorite string bean McConaughey at 45 days, 12 hours and 15 minutes. And he's just waiting on the faster known time organization to set the trail record for this incredible feat. So without further ado, I am so honored to welcome ultra endurance athlete Jeff Garmire Garmire to the show. Thank you, Jeff, for coming on.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm glad you've experienced the trail as well on your runs. It's a pretty rugged trail out there, isn't it?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

You know what I. I used to think, like, all right, I'm going to crush this. At that time, I was doing long runs in Florida, where I live. We moved up to North Carolina, and I swear to God, I could do 30 minutes. And those, those elevation and I mean, and the trail itself is hazardous, too. So it's like I had to completely adjust my whole mindset. Like, I had to, like, I was cool. I. There's so many great trail runners out there and the community is so wonderful that I was able to get a lot of instruction and assistance and guidance. So that, that really helped me for sure.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, miles are a lot slower out there than on the roads when you're just jogging around or in Florida. But that's what makes it Fun too is it's so engaging because every step matters. There's usually a route or a rock in your way as well.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think. You know what I remember when I really started to realize just how difficult it is to be, you know, off the beaten path. I remember doing long range ruck runs and stuff in the teams and there you never get a solid step. You never like your equipment is never where it needs to be. There's always a rub, there's always, you're shooting shoes are all, you're battling your boots or your shoes or whatever. And there's just, you know, something that, you know, nature, nature fights back a little bit when you're out there trying to conquer it.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

For sure. Totally. And what I love about it is you just never know what's going to be like the factor or the problem that you have to solve of the day. Like is it going to be a blister or a chafing thing or humidity or rain or moderate lack of water. That's what kind of just on the general sense why I've fallen in love with these long things in the woods because it's just constant problem solving. It's like your mind is racing and it's working and people may think, oh it's, you're out there moving 20 hours a day or so, but it's like, yeah, but you're also thinking 20 hours a day. It's unlike anything else in real life.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Oh, at all. People keep. And that's, I think, I don't know, for me that was the, one of the most rewarding aspects about doing those kinds of endurance type of outdoor endeavors. You know, it really is, it is about the problem solving of the environment, the problem solving of your, your own kit, the problem solving of your physicality. And then most important part, you know, that, that spiritual problem solving your work and through two and different aspects of your life. I want to know, let's just start out what got you into this? I mean, you know, it's one thing to be outdoorsy and you know, to enjoy mountain biking and hiking and all that, but you've taken this thing to such an elite level. I would love for my audience to understand like what was the catalyst, what got you going?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, I think a lot of things that develop into passions or we realize our passions are almost on accident and that's sort of how it feels with this. I was in the middle of college and not really into it, not really fitting into the college style. Didn't really love it, it felt like just being graded on how good you were at test taking. So I was looking for a reason to quit. I didn't just want to be a college dropout and not do anything. And so I remembered that we'd met these people that were through hiking the Pacific Crest Trail when I was about 16. And with nothing more than just that memory it was like, okay, I'm going to quit college and hike the 2,650 mile Pacific Crest Trail. I was 20 years old. It was like this is going to be the time where I figure out what to do with my life. And turns out I love that experience so much. That turned out to be what I actually wanted to do with my life and involve more. The biggest reason I fell in love with it. And I. That's literally all it took for me to dive in. Two weeks after deciding I was going to do this, I was on the trail figuring it out with a 55 pound pack and no good gear. But that didn't really matter because it was like the chance to grow up. There were no like dining halls like in college. There weren't just schedules or courses or the curriculum for four years mapped out. It was like I need to buy enough food in this town because the next four days I'm not going to have a town so I'm going to go hungry or I have to carry enough water or I'm going to go thirsty. Is it made me grow up and become an adult so quickly where the consequences of my actions actually had implications. And I think that was just such a valuable thing to, to learn in the most rudimentary sense compared to college. Felt like it was like just a stepping stone barely after high school and I was kind of, I was needing like a clean break and to just kind of find my own identity and my own self rather than just kind of being guided through a curriculum. So eventually I went back to school and finished but it just gave me this much bigger sense of decision making and consequences and problem solving and also confidence and empowerment of like I can make these decisions and live with the consequences and deal with problems and things like that. So it really was the need for a break from college. And I went on one thru hike and decided that that didn't need to be my last one. I would find a way to make it a part of my life in some way moving forward. So that's where it all started. At 20 years old.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That's such a beautiful story, man. It's crazy to me that those one little single Things that take place, like just witnessing other people in that moment, that transformational moment. And it's not like you're he, hey, sit down and tell me why you're out here. Tell me what you're doing. Like, there's no context in it. It's just the, the revelation that can take place in that shared space where, you know, somebody is in this transition, somebody is in this space of executing something bigger than themselves.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

For, for me, it was my, my freshman year. My next door N neighbor, Tony Gronsky, gave me a book about Navy SEALs in Vietnam. And I didn't know what a Navy SEAL was. And I read this thing and I'm like, well, that's the coolest thing I've ever read. And you know, fast forward four years later when I realized that college was not for me. I didn't, same as you. Like, I didn't get it. Here we are supposed to be in the most advanced technical aspect of education. And, and it's, it's very similar. You're just in regurgitating information to test, to get to the next thing to get, compile all your credits and to get your diploma, so then you can go work in a cubicle or whatever, you know, and it's just that, that wash, rinse, recycle, repeat thing of your mind. And I was in that same thing too. It's like my mind is not. Because there are, there are aspects of college that I think you can absorb a unique perspective from. It can push you to think. But if you're not prepared for that, like you said, if you don't have the maturity to allow the rigor or regiment of college where you can explore your own individual construct of, of, of intellectual, your intellectual prowess or whatever it is, you know, you are shunted in this way that you're, you're, you're restructured. And so, you know, leaving and going out into, into that trail must have just been like, how soon did you feel the elation of it? How soon? And what, what, what was that feeling like? What did you, was it a sense of freedom? You know, I, I, you know, I, I, I love your podcast, the free Outside Podcast. The name is so cool. And that's, that's what it is, right? Like when you're outside, you're free, you're, you're disconnected from the tether of society, if you will, or the rigors of it. And, and you're free to go explore yourself. Did you feel that instantaneously?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, I felt it pretty soon the first night I was scared by every, like, little bird or animal scurrying around. So it was a bit of a transition into being comfortable out there. I have no fears of the outdoors now, but I. I have to admit I was quite, quite scared for the first few days on that trail. But the biggest thing that stuck with me and made it feel like home or community was there were probably 300 other people out there attempting the trail that year. And they all are so different. Different beliefs, views from different countries, from different backgrounds, different levels of income. And it was so cool to experience that we all are doing the same thing. And I think that just made me realize that the whole greater country in the world is. There's just these, like, commonalities between people. And it just made me understand that I don't understand everything and everyone out there. And that was just as important. And it almost made it fascinating to. Well, it made me want to just get to know these people and their stories. And we shared. And you become friends and everything. You become friends so quickly because all your goals are aligned at this moment in time of we want to get to this campsite at the end of the day or we got to get water here, resupply in this town. That you just realize that no matter people's backgrounds or anything like that, that you can just have like, really cool conversations and become friends with anyone if you have shared goals. And I think that was the biggest learning at 20. That was almost addicting of like, I gotta find these situations in the future so that I can continue to find, like, this greater community that is just very different than I was getting in my college classes. I didn't get that immersement. There's too many distractions to freely feel like you can share out. When you're all vulnerable and cold and tired or wet or exhausted or hungry. It's a lot easier to just share on a deeper level than. Than in the more superficial world. It feels like, oh, I think that.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That right there is about as gospel as there is right there. And it's. I always find the beauty of the outside world and that, you know, there. There's no. No matter how hard people try to manipulate the.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

The. The.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

The. The majesty or the influence of nature for whatever purpose, the. You don't need to do that. Just be in it and be in it with someone else and it happens naturally, right? You find that common ground, which is. Which is, you know, that expansive landscape or those beautiful pine trees or. Or redwoods or sequ. Smell of those, you know, those creeks Or. Or whatever it is, man. There's.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

It's just.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

There's no manipulation that. Going on in any of that. And I think it allows for people, like you said, it allows for that genuine sense of honesty to emerge out of us that we spend so much time trying to bury or trying to. What is it? I don't know. Protect, maybe? Because I think, you know, to a certain degree, and I've traveled all over the world, I've met thousands of people, talk to thousands of people, and. And I think, you know, when you. When you can somehow, what, pull the barriers down a little bit or. Or not have them pulled down, but just like, have them open the little, you know, the little, you know, security gate of their soul and. And you can offer up a genuine curiosity and intrigue and respect for what they think and who they are and whatever. And regardless if you believe it or not, there's just this shit shared sense of, like, that within the human condition that we are connected and we are connected in a natural way. And I think that you're right. It really only happens out when you're out in the woods, like that is.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

So as.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

As you finish that first one, finished college, when did you, like, make the decision? All right, this is going to become more of a quest or an active. An active goal for me to begin these more grander scales of endurance. And. And then, you know, what. What I always kind of describe as is that I'm a true slave of time itself, right? I'm always like, I gotta be there. You know, I gotta be there. It's like that and that gnawing sensation of what time can do to you. But like, with those decisions, you're almost trying to gain control of the time itself. Like, time is saying, you can't do this, and you're saying, I can. When did. When did that all shift to a more focused way? And why?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, that's a. That's a good and tough question. So after college, I dove into the world of finance and accounting in Denver. And if you can believe it or not, it was not the most stimulating on the weekends, every single week. In the first summer I was there, I climbed multiple 14ers and my goal was to finish there's 58 14,000foot peaks in Colorado, and I climbed them all within 10 weeks. And that was the highlight of every week is like, can I fit in five or six different mountains on this weekend? This hobby was just like, as big as my normal life. So I began looking at, how do I do something A little bit bigger, a little bit more epic than the Pacific Crest Trail that I'd done. And so I kind of came to the conclusion that I am going to quit my career and do this 8,000 mile adventure involving hiking the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail and the Continental Divide Trail in the same year. And kind of what? Over the edge was the same exact feeling that I had in college where it was like, I just don't fit in. I'm not. Everything feels superficial here. Every social interaction involves going out and getting a beer where I'd rather just like be in the mountains and doing something. And yeah, it made me very depressed. And so when you get to a point of depression, it's sort of like, well, I. If I don't change anything, I'll feel like this forever. So I can do anything. Like I can make any other choice. And it was like quitting my job and going on an 8,000 mile adventure. What's the downside of that? Because that is better than what I'm giving up. Even if I run out of money or I'm in a bad spot at the end of it, at least for this eight months, I was in a better spot. So that's sort of the mindset that just naturally developed of when you feel like you have nothing to lose, then you can make the decision that's really guided by your feelings and your passions and your heart. And so that's what I did. And that just at that time, only four other people had done this adventure. I was the youngest by far. I didn't have hardly any experience, no experience in the snow, but that's what I wanted. Something where it was a complete up. Now, the problem solving aspect is my.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Favorite part of it.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

When you're freezing cold, you only got what's in your pack to stay warm. So all these little things and they made me so present. And I think that's the, the most enjoyable part. And so this, that sort of launch, this, I guess, foray into going further and further and then eventually was like, well, I'd like to see how fast I can do things. And so it naturally led into going fast and trying for these records. And if you, you come close or you get one, it's sort of like, okay, I fit in, I can do this. And that sort of fueled getting here. And the trick is this world costs money to live it. So finding ways to support it over time. But I think when something was so cemented in my mind is like, this is my passion. This is what I love to do. This is where I feel extremely present. It's like I can figure out all the other things around it at least. I just add this one thing that seems to be when you're like four and adults are like, you can be anything you want when you grow up, it's like, well, why would I ignore that? It seems like I found what I want to do. Now I just got to feel like where I got to figure out how to make it sustainable. So that's sort of the, the journey. And when you talk about a time and a slave to time, that's so fascinating because like in a record, it's against a certain time. But when you're out there, you feel like time moves at this natural pace. Like 30 minutes before the sun rises, the birds start chirping and then the day flows naturally. As the sun rises, temperature heats up and it sets and cools off. Like the wind changes, you pick up and notice all these cues that our ancestors probably noticed and paid attention to for tens of thousands of years. And that's what I love. It just feels so natural.

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Well you. You said something that I really was fascinating to me. You know, you, you, you you alluded to a sense of of depression that you were locked into a space that wasn't genuinely your choice and you realized that you weren't going to experience life the way you wanted to, which was in, in, in nature itself, right? To be connected to it. Right? And, and then you, you know, and so, you know, you said something about presence, you know, when you're, when you're present in those moments and you just alluded to it right there. You, you're present on the trail, you're present in the, in the. How time actually works in conjunction with the natural order of, of, of. Of all things. Right. I think, you know, we, we, we have a real propensity to try and contort the sensation of time through technology and all the other aspects and in particular our, our sense of meaning and focus with work and all these other aspects that can be profound distractions for trying to figure out who we are, where we fit in. But that presence and the time itself sounds like when people are struggling, that they're not present or they're, or, or they're overtly present in, in a space that isn't the genuine nature of their reality.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And you start to, to spin in the. What you're spinning in the things that, you know are not working. And then you kind of get trapped into that time, that, that space and time. But as soon as you step out of that and you, and you, you go out and you. Like for me growing up in South Florida, it was going to the beach, going surfing, you know, now it's paddle boarding, snorkeling, swimming in the ocean. You know, that, that connectivity that helps my sense of time get restructured. And so there, there is something remarkably. What is it? It generates the sense of presence that obstructs the ulterior motives to control the time, which, Which I think bleeds into us feeling controlled, like our sense of identity being controlled. What we have to fit in being controlled, we have to fit it in this box or this structure that, you know, societies have a tendency to impose on individuals. And that generated some frustration in me as well too. And that's why I wanted to seek this advent, the teams to figure out first and foremost, could I survive.

[Knix Advertiser]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That was the one thing, you know, and then it was, then it was problem. Oh, I enjoyed the problem solving. And then for me, the, the biggest part was to be to be in proximity to other people that sought out th. Those answers in, in this more intense environment to, to operate in. And so I just find it fascinating the way you describe it. Like you're recapturing who you are in these hard tasks or these Adventures.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah. And it's really interesting too, to hear the comments or talk to people. And a lot of the one big question is like, well, are you ever bored out there? And in my life, for some reason we've created this construct that like, boredom is the enemy. And it's like, no, I'm not really bored, but sometimes my mind is pretty blank. Like, maybe that is boredom, but I feel pretty present or focusing on, like, I can eat at any time. I'm not a slave to 6pm I have to eat dinner out there. Like all of these little things that feel like they just built on each other with how life is kind of constructed and growing up, it felt like I could dismantle them. And just like boredom is, I guess maybe just not being comfortable with more of a blank and present mind. And maybe it's boredom to other people, but it's very present and enjoyable to me. Like, you just listen to a bird sound or look at a sunset or focus on walking or the next mile, or you listen to the cue that you're thirsty. So I think that's been the most interesting thing of the disconnect. Once you've been out there for an amount of time, even if it's an overnight backpacking trip or you've never really let yourself or put yourself in that experience. And a lot of your experiences, time are clouded by always having a distraction in the palm of your hand. So I think that's the biggest thing that has made me fall in love with it is it is really just embracing almost what you're given rather than having to create something to waste time or let it go by. And that's also where all these relationships and interpersonal connections are formed. When there is no distraction, when you don't have text coming in or sharing a video with each other and you're actually just talking about how each other's doing or what you've done in the past or what you care about. That's. That's kind of what all of this, I think, is built on is. It's eliminating kind of these constructs that just didn't really feel like I was enjoying them. And that's kind of what led to the depression and kind of leaving that world behind in general as well.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That's beautiful, brother. That's really, that's really. That's a. A pretty profound observation. Thanks for sharing that. All right, let's get into kind of the, the technical realities of, of obviously you had grown accustomed. You figured out you became an expert in this type of Endeavor what let walk me through. All right, I'm going to go for the record. And then how you begin to plan for that and execute that.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Totally. Yeah. So I think of everything and coaching philosophy is the same on specificity. Like if this is the goal, this is how we need to get there. Which means I need to come up with every factor and have that dialed going in and then also consider what could go wrong. So for. Probably the first thing I would start with is thinking about nutrition. So I probably initially thought like 8,000 calories a day, maybe move up to 10,000 and it's like, okay, I have to carry all this. So it's a calories per ounce equation on what is the most efficient. And so I did a training camp on the exact terrain. I flew out to Maine and train with it out there. Tested gear as well. But the main thing that came back was like, okay, maybe all of these nuts are extremely high, like 160 calories an ounce. But I can't eat them as much as I want to. So it's like we got to, we gotta shift strategies a little bit here. We have to come up with some alternatives that maybe more diverse palate and can stomach these a little bit easier. Something a little easier in the heat to consume. So it's. So that's how I dial in food. And that what I would do is I had 45 days. So I took every single day I prepackaged all my food. So like in basically like a bulk food section plastic bag that would hold 8 to 10,000 calories. And that would. I would need to get through that every day. So when I'm on the trail, I want to eliminate as many decisions as I can. And so it's like I can eat anything in this bag at any time, but for today I need to just finish it. And so that is. It gives the freedom out there to eat something salty or something sweet, depending on what you feel like. But you know that your end goal is to get through that. And so I think of that as like micro goals. So every day has micro goals, like get to a certain campsite or consume amount of calories. And then how I break down the gear is everything, you know, carrying everything. And the more you carry, the more calories you need and the harder it is and the more on your muscles. So it's like we want to get down and eliminate as many items as possible and then we want to have like dual use items. So maybe that is using my tarp that I would sleep under that could also be used as a rain jacket or extra insulation to wrap around myself. And just things like that. Like what's the. And then testing things like what's the least amount of clothing possible that I can be not comfortable? Because you're not, you're not doing a record attempt to be comfortable but to get through it. So it's just like how, what are the multi use things? How do I intimately know my gear so that if it's gets unseasonably cold or unseasonably wet, I have these tools that I can pull out and use in the gear side. So an example of that in the training camp that I did out in Maine was it was quite foggy and I had a headlamp but it was getting I guess refracted or lost in the fog. So I couldn't see so well. So I thought up like, well what if I mounted a bracket to my waist belt so that it was closer to the ground and so I can see where my footsteps were. And so that's what I did. I had a little plastic mount that would go that's cool. Yeah, the waist belt of my pack. And so that solved that problem. So it was really just come up with the baseline, the initial plan and then from both my experience and then also I'm a pretty creative person so let's creatively come up with all the things that can go wrong and think of like what are possible solutions, what are possible tools, what are ways we can work on these. And I go to the sauna a few times a week and that's kind of the thing. The mind exercise I love doing in there is like what's something that could go wrong? How am I going to solve. Doesn't. Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't mean that you have to come up with every problem and solve every problem. But I think just learning that mindset is so important in life. We're never going to know everything that's going to go wrong. But if you know what to do when something goes wrong, I think you're even more, you're way more trained than me and miss But I think that's like the basis of not going to go according to plan. So how are you going to deal with it?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Well that's, that's, that is that like toe truer statement has ever been made.

[Anabe Sofa Advertiser]

Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Life is an inevitably imbued with suffering and pain. There's just, it's part of the thing when whatever context you're looking at. And so it really is about managing those reactions Right. And, and, and I like, I remember I, I, I when we started doing mission profile and mission planning and you're like, okay, the there'll be this much alum. You have to make it this far with this amount of water. You have to, you can, you only have this many rounds. You know, it's all that weight distribution and how much water versus fuel and all that when you're getting picked up, how you know, just like what you're describing. But the thing for, for me was, well, what happens if we get here and the enemy does this or this or this and what happens in this? And then you start getting into that like over complicating it. And I always, you know, the response that they would always give to us is it's situationally dependent. And you're like, oh, oh, what does that mean? They're like, stop asking so many damn questions. Right? If you've been trained, you know that as problems distill down to the base problem. Am I getting enough nutrition every day? Am I properly hydrated? Right. Are my feet gonna last? Right. Am I gonna get hype out? And then do I know where I'm going? And you know, other than that, the other stuff you can kind of deal with. And so I love, you know that, that, that it's, it's a game for you, right? It's like you're, you know, you're sitting there, you're, you're putting it up on this dashboard of your mind or this GPS of your mind and you're like, okay, this could take place, this could take place. But you've already thought through. So when you were hit with something like I remember watching the video of your shoe getting destroyed. Can you walk through when you got hit with a few different problem sets the process in your mind, the solution and then managing like, ah, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Can you walk through that for people? Cause I, I agree. If we can somehow in this show, like give an example of what you're talking about on how to mitigate the mental impact of consequence versus proper preparation and then mental adjustment, being emotionally adroit to where we aren't consumed with that negativity and then fighting the problem even though we dealt with it and we're still moving forward. I know that's a lot, sorry, but.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

You understand what I mean?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Totally.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah. There's a number of examples. This went far from perfect. Probably more things than any other record attempt went wrong on this. But I mean it makes it fun and an engaging story. So There's a couple memorable stories, but one is specifically so I mailed out 18 boxes that had all my food that I tried out nutrition dialed. I knew it worked for my stomach. And in Shenandoah National park, about 1300 miles into this 2200 mile journey, I go to this lodge that I'd mailed the box to and I asked for it and they say that it's not here. So they look again and it's not here. And this is the longest stretch, it's 160 miles there that I need nutrition for. So this is not good. It's immediate panic and then it's just like, okay, well it's not here. This is my mindset of or this is where my mind goes. So it goes, it's not here. So I'm solving nothing by killing more time here. Like I can't, can't get any nutrition that I need here. And so I saw that there is a wayside, basically a tourist little store about five miles further. So I, it's like, okay, this is my next option. So I'm gonna go here. So that's what I do. And I get there and it's the day after Labor Day and on Labor Day their hours change. So this store is closed. So now we're round of like, okay, this first problem solving method did not work. Now I'm down to like a handful of peanuts. I have like 500 calories and the only option from here is there's a store in 32 miles that I can, it's like basically a gas station where I can resupply enough. And so it just became, okay, I have 32 miles to go. I have just like a handful of peanuts to get there. So this is going to be miserable. Basically a fasted 50 kilometer adventure here. And then so as I'm going, it's like the emotional roller coaster because it's just thinking because there's more problems present. It's not that I don't have food. It said if you don't have food for a day, your body's going to be weak for the days to come. And so it's just like, okay, I need to figure this out. And I'm very frustrated at the same time. But it's like, okay, I first step, I just need to get to this store. And as I get closer after a night of sleep, tried to sleep a little extra to have some form of energy. As I'm getting to the store, it's like, okay, so I'm going to be able to Solve this food problem. It's not going to be the food that I've trained with, but I can at least fill that void. But the problems present are that I'm.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Going to have a lack of energy.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

For the next few days. I'm already going into this store having basically fasted for the last 12 or so hours. So it's like I need to stop at this store and consume as many calories as I can. And then I need to up how much I'm eating to 10,000 calories a day for at least the next week or so. And not only did my box that was missing have all my nutrition, it also had my power bank that was keeping my tracker charged, my headlamp charged, and, and my, and I had a spare pair of socks. And so it was a lot deeper problem than that. So it was just like I need to have a tracker so I can have this verified and I have my watch as a backup and have this tracker. So it was like, well, I can charge them up while I'm eating all these calories. I can. And then for the next three days I can switch like one day on my watch, one day on the tracker to try to save as much battery is possible, and then use my headlamp on dim and just go a little bit slower. But it's just like the example of, I think in life, like a big problem. It's like it's got all these little like compounding issues that you have to solve along with them. And when the solutions are, there's just very few options. When you don't have a car and you're out there is, that's where that problem solving mindset kind of takes place. So for the next three days and or so I ate more calories. It was not the calories I trained with, but you know, I, I made it work. I sort of had to have this talk with myself on. I could write this off because I've just hurt my body's chances by starving it for a day. Or I could just say, well, I'm still on pace, I've still got a chance. We just hold on to this. And that's kind of my mindset. In everything in life, if you've still got a chance, you still need to give 100. So it's basically like, I've still got a chance. So we're just gonna see how this plays out. We don't have to decide that this killed my adventure before it actually does or something. So. So that's, yeah, that's probably the biggest example of one thing goes wrong. It compounds and you just have to come up with a way to problem solve. And I'm consuming more calories. I slowly upped the mileage after that and was able to get back on track. But it was the scariest part of that, was just knowing that my body is going to suffer from this issue for multiple days, but not letting that impact the present. So it's like, I can do the best of this moment, but I can't decide how I'm going to feel tomorrow until it happens.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I love that concept, right? That, right. I think that is the thing that impedes so many people from accessing the freedom that you're talking about. And people will hear me say that and they'll be like, freedom. We mean, the dude's body was eating itself, right? His, his stomach was like eating its interior lining, right. He was, his muscle tissue was being devoured. Right. You know, every reserve you had, plus the sleep depth, plus, you know, the angst of, like, you're not dehydration or whatever, all that compounding thing, you know, there's no freedom in that. And I say there, there is because, you know, in that moment you made that decision, like, there's still hope. And for me, like, I've been in a lot of those different moments where it's like, oh, no, you're not quitting. There's, there's no way you're quitting. Like, it's just, there's not an option, right? You know, there have been many moments, even in those moments where I was like, man, I should quit. And then that little voice, whatever that is, you know, which is, I believe, correlated to the sensation of freedom. I think it's counterintuitive because I think people, people have a tendency to aggregate real pain with some type of debilitating restriction.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And, and, and the thought of the pain that's coming in the future precludes us from, from releasing the chains, right? Or the, the self imposed limitations to get out there and explore who you really are.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

And that's the beauty.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That's where you're free because you're discovering, yeah, dude, I just starved myself in a 32 mile, just brutal, like foodless, like a, you know, trying to figure this out. And then you're in the store and I can only imagine, like trying to say, all right, I'm not gonna have Ring Dings, maybe some beef jerky. You know, there's some like, peanuts, they're probably just saturated in salt. But you. That Pierre probably, like, salt's good, but like picking and choosing and then going to yourself, like, you can just sit there and stew on the reality of, oh, man, I'm going to eat this. And I know I'm going to pay for my stomach later. I know, oh, this is. I don't have the right socks. I'm going to pay for that. But you, you had this amazing ability to stifle all that. And like we said, be in the moment of what I need right now, and what I need right now is this. And then I'll worry about what I need next when it hits me. And I just think like, that is the story, like, that's the essence. Figure out how to teach. Right. Like tens of millions of people out there that there's a way to get to that freedom, you know, like, that seems to be the thing. And, you know, and I just find it fascinating. It's just really impressive to how you describe it. Describe it all right after you solved it and, and started to get your body back, you know, and your, your conscious back in terms of, of the focus and, and, and, and what you needed to do in order to execute, did it seem easier after that?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Wow, good question. I think it seemed, it seemed different. Like I'd overcome this thing and that I'd made this conscious decision, which I think we can all do in life, of like, I don't need to create future problems. Like, I don't need to worry about tomorrow or people in a marathon in mile 10. It's like, you don't need to be like, well, I can't do this for the next 16 miles. It's like, you don't need to just do it first mile, then do it another mile. Maybe you'll get to the end. But it created this very present feeling on like, okay, now I've gone through a few different issues out here, and I'm still, I've still got a chance. And so I think it made was like the peak of motivation and it sort of got to this. I was, I think of things in thirds. I like to. Where it's like, the first third you're figuring out how to do everything. The second third you're setting yourself up for that final push. And so I've gotten into that last third by this point too. So it's like I can take the reins off a little bit, push the schedule, father a little bit more sleep deprivation. And it was just, I think, more so empowering that it's like, I got through this. My body is moving well. I can do these big days that it was a little hesitant or having trouble with even a week ago, that it just gave me this sense of like, okay, I got through that. I know I can get through every other issue that's going to come up. Will I get the record? I don't know. We don't know what's going to happen, but I've got a shot and I can give everything to this now. I think it just gave me the empowerment to I guess go all in or feel like there were less training wheels at that point on. I've gone through so much like we might as well just throw it all at the wall at this point.

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[Knix Advertiser]

The wait is over. The NYX Black Friday sale is on [e-mail] shop early and save up to 60% off site wide plus all kinds of limited time daily deals from the number one leak proof brand in North America. Don't miss your chance to save big on innovative intimates like leak proof underwear, wireless bras, shapewear and more. Everything is on sale. Millions have made the switch to NYX's revolutionary period underwear and there's never been a better time for you to try them too. During the Black Friday sale, save up to 60% on super comfy machine washable and stylish leak proof undies. Plus shop the best deals of the year on NYX's best selling assortment of wireless bras. Don't miss this chance to stock up on your NYX favorites or try something new during the NYX Black Friday event. That's knix.com the sale ends December 2nd and sizes will sell out. Go to nyx.com that's kn I x.com.

[Early Bird Advertiser]

Stop before you drag yourself to that coffee pot. Tomorrow morning, try this instead. Tonight, fill a shaker with water, add one scoop of early bird and put it on your nightstand. When your Alarm screams at 5am, drink it first. What happens next will shock you. Your brain doesn't gradually wake up, it switches on. The fog vanishes. You're not surviving your morning, you're conquering it. This blood orange mimosa ritual turned more than a thousand night owls into morning warriors this week alone. Get [e-mail] and use code neversnews for 20% off it's finally here Black Friday.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

At ulta Beauty Take 30% off Mac foundations and lip colors. Save $100 on the iconic Dyson Airwrap and starting Tuesday shop mascaras for $14 and lip colors for $12. Perfect for stocking up. To make it super easy, shop online and pick up in store or get same day delivery. Head into Ulta Beauty and shop Black Friday deals now through November 29th. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.

[Samsung TV Advertiser]

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[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I love that man, because that again, that goes back to that space where it's just like everything just falls off you and it's just like I am, I'm, I'm a hundred, I'm, I'm in. I call it a focused obsession, right? Where it's not, it's not a detrimental obsession that destroys you. It's it's the focused obsession that allows you to kind of go through the, you know, the, the eye of the needle, right? Or walk the razor's edge or whatever, whatever metaphorical, you know, poetic metaphor that's been used in the Past by, by great authors or explorers or whomever. Can you give an example of in that final third leading up to what a daily routine look like? And then maybe discuss a little bit sleep depth because for, for people who've never been sleep deprived before, you don't know what you're missing. And especially when you combine, you're doing these ultra elite endurance things in the midst of it. So will you give us a typical day towards the end where you're really driving? How, how much distance, you know, how long do you stop to go to the bathroom? You know, what do you do to like, just give us that and then talk about the sleep depth? That'd be awesome.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Totally. Yeah. I think of the days during these record attempts. So they're all 24 hour days. And that's kind of how I structure it. So it's like, okay, I want to get two hours of sleep, but I'm gonna. So we're gonna kind of do it backwards. So I'll be hiking the night before and then I'll get to maybe some days it's 11pm, maybe some days it's 1am, maybe some days it's 3am and then that's where that two hours of sleep is gonna fall. Because I want it to be the most efficient. Like I'm gonna be sleeping that full two hours. Like I'm ready to fall asleep. And so wherever I need that sleep, whatever I've decided is the duration, that's where that's gonna fall and it's just gonna be where my body needs it. And then I wake up and then it's. I can pack up in probably two and a half or three minutes. A couple years ago I timed it, but I think I'm a little quicker even now. And so on the top of my bag, I pull out my food for the day. About half of it goes in my front pockets or in my pockets. And as I'm going, the first thing I'll do is I'll brush my teeth while moving. So I'm already logging miles. My headlamp is on. And then I'll have. Usually the strategy is just two items per hour of what I'm eating to keep it extremely simple. They can be anything that, that's in that bag for the day. Just two items just to kind of stay on track with nutrition. And then water sources will fall anywhere from three to 10 miles, I guess, between them. And then as I'm between these sources, I'm kind of calculating how water works out the rest of the day. So that I know what I need to carry. If a stream is dry, I might need to carry more or drink more at that stream. And it's gotten light at this point, and it's pretty much continual movement the whole day. Unless I'm collecting water, everything is accessible except for maybe one midday break where I just grab the. The other half of my food from the top of my pack and move it into the accessible pockets. And then I go into the evening again. And then there's always just a little. I think, just as we're programmed as humans, there's always a little bit of dread as the night starts because it gets harder. Like, you just. It's hard to stay awake. It's like, I'm gonna be tired, and there's always. I sleep. Think of sleep deprivation as, like, there's this. This wall or a plateau or something, and you have to get up over it, and then you can stay awake way longer than you think. But it's really easy to give up on that, like, really hard wall in front of you that's just helping you with everything. Like, you're so tired your eyes can't stay open. But. But if you get through that, for some reason, it gets easier. Like, your body accepts it and you're awake. And now you're not operating at 100%, maybe you're 80%, you're moving fine, but your brain is tired, so it's playing tricks on you. So a stick may look like a snake slithering in front of you, or there's like, shimmers of leaves that turn into objects or stumps are the worst. They always turn into, like. Like bears or something like that. So these are the hallucinations that come with sleep deprivation. When I was about five or six, my parents, for some reason, watched Jumanji with me, and I had nightmares about the safari guy that has the. The rifle and is hunting them down. And so when I experience sleep deprivation, about 90% of the time, he'll pop up somewhere. And it's not. It's not so fearful now, but it's just like this thing persists just all the way back from 30 years ago. And. Great. Yeah, I think. I don't know. What. Do you. Do you have anything to add on the sleep deprivation side? It's so hard to explain. It is.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I. I had no idea until hell week, and.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

And.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And then it was just. I mean, we start. I started first hallucinating probably, I don't know, 70 hours in, but, like, my brain was playing tricks on me 5560 hours in. By 70, I'm in that complete cognitive disassociation. You know, my, my physical self is fighting my emotional. You know, one minute I'm caving in, the next minute I'm screaming, hoo ya. You know, and I'm just kind of trying to feed off other dudes and. But like that Thursday night we're doing around the world where we paddle all the way around San Diego and Coronado and it's like a 16 hour paddle and that we were paddling in San Diego Bay and there's like Volkswagen Bugs driving down the middle of, of San Diego Bay. And like I had one, one like we were paddling and this one, there were seals popping up on parts of like, they just pop up and check you out. Oh, this, this, this head pops up and I'm like, oh, look at that seal. And the seal looks at me and goes, what's up, Rut? And I'm like, I'm like, what? And it ended up being my body who was trying to sneak pizzas in, in Copenhagen out to his buddy's boat crew. So like, I was like, dude, what's up man? And he's like, hey, where's, where's, you know, where's Bix boat crew? And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I got dip for him. I'm like, can I have some? He's like, no, bro. And I was like, you know, so like, it's, it's, it's. I think what it is is it makes you realize how elastic your, how elastic your, the governor is in your body, in your soul, right? We, I think we, because of those nightmares as a kid, because of the depression of being young men or whatever you're dealing with in your life, those, those things translate into things that restrict us, right? And they, they, they, they force us to. Whether we are conscientious about the pullback or we're, we're, we're, we're, it's in our subconscious. We're just, it's fear, right, that pulls us. But once you kind of, kind of persevere through the whole like thing, right, you begin to realize, whoa, whoa. There's a lot more elasticity in my perceptions. Like I can stretch this way further than I ever dreamed of. And I think once you have, once, you know, you can do that, like I said before, it gives you the freedom to really explore who you are in all these different, average. And when I work with my private coaching clients in performance stuff, the first thing I always want to do is test them physically and usually within an endurance thing. And what I always like to do because not very many people are proficient is put them in water.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Right.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Because it's your fish out of water type thing. And so like, I think when I watch people struggle in that you, you can. Because I think I've gone through so many of those battles in terms of stretching my perceptions of ability. It was sleep depth involved. Like, it's like I can see it happening in a person and for me, like, that's one of those revelatory experiences and that's what you get in this. Like, you get this sensation. Like, I would love to have been like a little drone over your head to watch your pace change or your gate length or like the strength and the efficiency. Like you said, man, I can pack my kit and in and out and two, two minutes. Like people don't. If you're not doing that, people don't understand the, the levels of proficiencies that come with being acute in your movements. Right. And, and I would love to watch you feel that sense of, of strength even in the sleep depth, even in the, the physic, the physical grind that was on you. Was there. Like, could you feel that taking place in particular as you're getting closer to the end? Was there this feeling like, oh, I'm not going to beat it because I know you're close. I mean you're pretty close to the last. Tell me about that. Like that, that sense of confidence building and then the battle with the time itself to set the record.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah. So I did the first half in about 24 days, which means that I was behind by considerable amount. Of course, the, the northern half is the hardest half. And so that, that made it this battle against doubt the rest of the time. When my whole mantra, my whole goal from the beginning was I just want to have a chance. Like I want to have a shot as late into this thing as possible, ideally till the end, but you're never going to know you're going to get a record early on. And so it's just like the goal is to have that shot. And sometimes that shot felt further away or that chance, but it was still within reach or at least within eyesight, metaphorically. And so as I got closer and I logged a couple like 55 mile days, it was like, okay, I can do this, I just need to keep doing this type of thing. And ended kind of racked up and felt this confidence on like, okay, this sleep deprivation, it also comes in waves. So if you stay up through a whole night, you'll be like real tired at 10 and then you'll be like running through the woods for an hour and then it's gonna hit you a little bit harder the next time and then it's gonna like be easy again and that's gonna hit you harder. But I go through these waves and it's like each wave that I battle, we're talking maybe the last week of the adventure would be just like a huge accomplishment or win and just like empowering. And then that's when that pace would pick up and I'd move quicker through the night and be like, okay, I can do this. I can get 56 miles done for this 24 hour span. And so it just kept being these like little confidence boosters. And when you do get really tired, and I would say I was critically sleep deprived for probably eight or nine days for the, at the end of it is, you also get very emotional, which I'm sure is really entertaining to see in the SEAL training as well. You just see these incredible warriors that are so emotional.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

But I, that, that, that was the thing. Like you're just open, you're filleted with your emotions. It's crazy. Yeah.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

And, and emotions are incredible. Like we should all embrace them more because they are, they're a compass, they guide our, our lives. So it's just like when I get to the top of a climb and feel this huge sense of pride or accomplishment, it's like I can ride that for the next hour. And then when there's like a sense of doom or sadness or something at 3:00am, it's like, maybe that's the signal that it's time to take my hour long nap or something. But it just became so raw. And I could trust these emotions which guided me through that last week. And before that it was like fitness routine experience that guided it. And then when it's like still have a chance with a week left, it's like I need to give everything and that just, just trust that my body, mind and physical ability are aligned here and that I can get it. And so that's kind of how that final push went. And the crazy, the craziest thing happened, it's happened a couple times, but the last probably five hours, when I had maybe 15 or 20 miles to go, I had maybe 10 hours to finish it. I knew I would finish it in five hours. And then suddenly that, that sprint, that drive was less strong. Like it was just like, I just need to get through this on this pad. This Push the whole way. When it was like, well, I could be 30 minutes faster, 30 minutes slower. That was the hardest part of the whole trip, that last day of like, well, who cares? I'm gonna get this. I'm gonna finish. But it's so. It was so hard to finish strong, where it felt like there was less of a question about this goal. It was more like a trivial amount that impacts it. And that's the deepest I think I've ever had to dig of, like, I'm gonna get this, but I just need to get through these miles. Like, I just gotta keep going there. There's few. No more carrots dangling out there. It's. There's no one out here. It's just monotonous. It became so hard, that final bit.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Oh, God. And that's like. That's the interesting thing. And I think there's a correlation to that with, with any endeavor that we seek to pursue. Right? Like, there's you, You. You work up the courage within, the motivation behind the ambition, and then you start to apply the ambition and the motivation to a regimen of preparation and training and focus and determination, preceding, you know, with ideas that will enable you to solve problems in real time as you get. But then you just gotta cross the threshold and go and just, you know, now you're in it. But then even within. Within something difficult in your life there, it always breaks out into these unique sections. I. I don't think anything hard I've ever tried to do didn't have these natural divisions that took place. And I love the way you. You describe it as, as. As your emotions become raw, they become unfiltered, right? They're happening in real time regardless of, like, you almost cease to have control over it. And it's your. It's the proximity of the accomplishment that seems to be manipulating you a little bit, right? Like the, the goal itself regains the. The power in you over you.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

And.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And then you. And then you're. Then you, like, fight back and you're pushing it back against it and you're like, no, no, I'm going to maintain my. My sense of. Of presence in what I'm doing right now in the time, Right?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah. It's just you.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

So. You put that so perfectly, man. It's just really beautiful how you describe that. That take us to the crossing, like finishing the pr. I know. Obviously, very, very difficult. You know, you're there, it's over, you just want to shut it down, go to sleep. But that. And then. Can you then describe what it's like afterwards in that post trail letdown or transition or acclimatization back to normal. Can you just walk us through those final sessions sections if you could?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, yeah. I would say for 44 and a half days it was like motivating, empowering, let's go for it. And then as I alluded to it, just the last couple hours were like, just get this done and then it's done. And then it's just like so much relief. I'm like, it's, it's like when you have to go to the bathroom and you get home, your body's ready to give up right before you get to the bathroom. That's sort of what it felt like. It's like my body wants this over and it can't quite be over. And then I finish immediate relief and then everything shuts down. Like I walked up Springer Mountain, got a thousand foot climb or so, maybe a little more. And look great coming down that mountain the mile to get to the car that was going to take me back to Atlanta. I was walking like I was 100 years old. It's just like, it's not a mental thing. Like I wanted to be in that car and eating pizza as much as anything, but just somehow the body, just once that goal and it's, I think it proves how strong goals are, is once that disappeared, 10 minutes later, I can barely walk. Like it's, it's so incredible. And then that leads into I've suddenly lost my routine, which I think we in today's age, it's like freedom, everything, like do whatever you want. But I think we do need some baseline of routine. Like what's something just if you make your bed every morning, like you got one thing that you do and all life is around that. Suddenly my routine that had, you know, mornings, lunch, evenings all accounted for is completely gone. I'm back in the normal world. I can eat ice cream anytime I want. I don't have to make my bed. I can shower 10 times a day. It's like all of these things that were the staple of my life that kind of held it together for a month and a half suddenly disappeared. And it felt like I was back at ground zero, trying to just like figure out how to rebuild a new routine or what this new life is. And I think of it a lot of like as I. Even then I flew back to Montana where I live. But as I came out of that and this old routine is done and I'm trying to find a new routine and put things back together and find the staple moments in every day that I can't just go back to the old meme because this adventure and every big thing in life changes you. So it's like I've got to find a way to put this new me into this same world. And so that's kind of where that post trail depression or just difficulty in finding your way in a world because you don't get to use all the strategies that you used two months ago because you're coming out of this a different person with a different perspective with, with hopefully a different respect for, for yourself. And you're not just going to want to be the same old you. That was pre adventure or life changing moment. And I think that's where a lot of the pros trail depression lies on. You're tasked with 24 hours a day to put back together in a new way when just a week ago you had that 24 hours dialed. You had it perfect, right? You had it figured out and it's like, like, all right, now you're a novice at life again. Good luck. The adventure's over.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I love that you're back to, back to zero. That's what it is. These freaking resets that happen after you experience these radical shifts in perspective. Like you said. I mean, I remember every single time I came back from a deployment through a war zone, it was like, like, all right, how do I fit in? Like, does this even make sense to me? Like I don't even know what to do. And you know, for many, many years I, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't tap into the things that would have helped that at all, which was to live a healthy life and to, you know, take care of myself, to do good emotional work or, you know, to write what my experience write poetry or paint or draw, whatever I love to do. And you know, and, or, and then the other aspect are relationships, right? Obviously relationships can shift or change too because you have new perspectives on, on the world. But I think that that is a remarkable way to look at it. It's like, man, you go through this revelatory transition and gain a whole new understanding of yourself, of what you can and cannot do, of what means things to you and what doesn't mean. I mean obviously it's just this, that's, it's like, it's. What is it? It's, it's, it's almost like you're shedding your old self through this rigorous like, you know, friends of mine, we call it putting ourselves on the anvil of life, right? And just taping down all the unnecessary stuff, and then you. Then you hop off and you're like, oh, all right. But all right, now, how do I. How do I fit this into the new world? You came home and had a massive experience as well because of an engagement too. So how. How are. What are you taking with what you learned about yourself on that, on this experience, and how are you going to apply it in this new adventure and getting married and, you know, whatever that future looks like for you guys?

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Totally. Yeah. A lot of things changed once I finished. So right before I put all my stuff in storage because I didn't want to have a backup plan or, like, didn't want to if I quit, like, there's no reason to quit. I just was like, let's eliminate all those excuses. And so I proposed right at the finish. So sleep deprived and everything. It was like this. It's actually pretty funny story. So my friend who gave us a. Gave me a ride back to Atlanta. She was there and then my girlfriend, and she was like, well, should we leave soon? And it was like, just give me five more minutes. And in those couple minutes, it was just like, okay, what do I need to say? I need to ask about getting married. Doesn't need to be perfect. And then it's like, okay, where's this ring I carried for 45 days? Pull it out. I don't. There's a video, but I don't really know if I nailed all the words or something, but I got them out. And then we got engaged and it was back.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

It was awesome.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

It was.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

I watched. Was amazing.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Thank you. Yeah. I feel like it was an ambitious time to decide I was gonna propose, but, you know, it made it work. Might as well. Might as well make it hard on myself, so. And then, yeah, so go back to normal life. And on top of the post trail depression, it's like, well, I need to move. Move all my stuff out of storage. We're engaged and I've got this trail and I coach athletes, so I got to get back into that. It was just like, how. How am I going to get through everything changing at once? Because I think it's. There's like a number of things that are the biggest moments or struggles in life and, like, moving and like, relationship stuff are definitely two of them. And it's like, well, getting engaged and moving right after already probably having dramatically low dopamine and serotonin in my brain because I'm sleep deprived and also changing my life completely. By reintegrating back into society. And so yeah, that was just like the biggest shift. And I think what to get to the question what really showed? I think ever we're all fallible and have things. But someone who can support your crazy goal. Like she was posting the updates on my Instagram. She was helped figure out places to resupply when we created a spreadsheet for the whole adventure. But someone who's willing to go along with whatever your passion is. I think that's kind of what things really boil down to in life. Even if she never wants to do this or doesn't, if someone doesn't get it, as long as they can respect that it means something to you. I think that's kind of the baseline and the basis of the relationship on everything else is superficial. But the core of your being. If it's a passion or what feels like an activity that saved my life over years, if someone respects and wants to help me do that, it's sort of like, well, that's probably a pretty valid person to have be a central part in your life. And so it was, it was like I started the trail, I bought the RIN during the training camp and was like by the end of this record I'll know for sure. And it was like three days in that it was like, okay, I already know the answer or the question I'm going to ask at the end of this thing. I just got to get to the end of this thing.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

That's so beautiful, man. That was like, like Tim didn't even talk about any of that. And so as I'm doing research, I find that video and I'm like, oh my God, this, this is even more, it's, it's, you know, it's, it just encapsulates I think what is possible. And I think we need so many more of those stories in our lives right now. I think, you know, there's so many, many people out there, in particular young people who are struggling, they're struggling with their own, their own challenges, their own demons, you know, and, and to show them this very pure way of unlocking yourself from those self, you know, from the self imposed limitations by you know, doing something difficult but, but with a purpose in mind and right. And then in the midst of that coming to the self awareness that you want to share your life in this, these pursuits with somebody as not only in marriage but also as a coach, I mean the reward that you can help instill in other people. I mean there's no greater gift in my mind in, in this life than to share the wisdom you learn the hard way with other people who not necessarily avoid the hard way, but can appreciate the hard way as. As an ability to generate that freedom within themselves to explore who they are and where they really want to go in life. Right. And that's, that's, that's an. That's an incredible challenge, but you're doing it just flawlessly in my mind. All right, last question, last couple questions. Tell me why you picked the Trevor project and, and the fact that you raised $27,000 for them.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Yeah, I think we hit like 47,000 actually, with over a little bit after the trail. Yeah, I think that everyone is valid and especially the support, like, therapy's done big things for, for me and stuff, especially trying to find my way in a world where it seemed like initially I chose the wrong path for at least sustainable happiness. And so I just really, you know, great rated charity and also just empowers a population that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle. It supports therapy, crisis line counseling, and stuff for the LGBTQ + community. And I just think that my view on the world is that we should all be empowered or have the resources to succeed or at least help out there. And I know this is never going to be achieved, but if I can make a small difference in, you know, helping a community and people that often are forgotten or lessened, it's just, I don't know, that brings meaning to life. And my whole thought going into this is, if I'm gonna get the spotlight for doing. Going for a record, I'm 80, close to 100 million people live within, like two hours. It's like, what if we can deflect some of that into saving people's lives? And it's just felt like this was one of the most, I guess, use or maybe one of the ways that I could direct money that would be spent on these services that directly do change people's lives. And that, that sort of was the. The whole baseline because at the end of the day, I'm trying to do a trail faster than someone else. But if we can raise some money to just help people live a happy, healthy, long life, especially through those formative years when you're. You're a young teenager. And it's just really hard to make it if, if there's someone that's on a crisis line that has a more relatable experience, I think that that's pretty empowering. So that was the whole goal. Just send money to people that it can impact most I love it, man.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

It's so admirable. I mean, I, I, I. You know, my wife and I are. We exist pretty profoundly in the world of suicide. You know, I've lost dozens of friends to it in the last decade or so, and. And that's why we started our own little charity as well, too, called the Operator Syndrome foundation, was to stop suicide. And, you know, it doesn't matter if, you know, you're part of the LGBTQ + community or your veteran or wherever you're a part of, man, people struggle, and they struggle immensely. And, you know, I think, you know, if we can take our accomplishments and transfer those accomplishments into supporting mental health for other people, I think it's. It's one of the greatest duties that we have as, as human beings. Right.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Is to.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

If we. If we can. If we can garner a sense of. Of strength and confidence and success, that can translate into. Into supporting other people that are struggling. I think that's, that's what we want. That's what we're supposed to do. I agree. So I love, love that you. You chose that charity. I love the mission. What you're doing with it, man, it's just really, really, really powerful. Okay, all right, last question is, what's next?

[Knix Advertiser]

Right?

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

And then. And then how can people follow you, support you, and listen to your show? Yeah.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

What is next? That's tricky. So I am running. It's called Cocodona 250. It's a 250 mile race from Phoenix, Arizona, to Flagstaff. So. So that's in May. That's my immediate what's next? And then as far as record stuff, looking at some possible stuff overseas and things like that. I love doing a million things, so I'd love to push forward and get a book about this written. I wrote one about the adventure I did in 2016, and so I just. And then everything's called Free Outside. Free outside dot com. The Free Outside on Instagram, Free Outside. The name of the book. There's a movie Free Outside you can watch, so keep it all pretty simple that way. And, yeah, while I have the moment, I just want to say, like, I've been on that side where you feel the pressure, the push, or the darkness of suicide and stuff, too. And that's when I thought, like, well, I'm gonna quit this and go do this thing that I was passionate about and. Or that I knew could make me happy, because it felt like when one option is the end and the other can be anything you want is just when you get so low in life, you can make the most dramatic decisions on, like, go hike for nine months or something like that. Like, there's, there's always an option. And I think a lot of these things and people that talk about taking a month and a half off to go for a record or hike for nine months, some of this feels impossible and it can be tricky and stuff, but nothing is ever impossible. So if you want to do any of these things or your own thing that you've dreamed about forever, maybe it takes a decade to set your life up in a way that you can. But I think the second that we give up on these things that we really love, it just makes the world a lot more harder. We live a lot with a lot more resentment. And so just if there's something you always wanted to do, it doesn't have to be something that you die always wishing you'd done.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

Jeff, I just can't thank you enough, man. You're a wise man. And also, you know, your feats are beyond imagination. For me, I. When I was looking you up on, on Instagram, I saw that Cameron Haynes was following you. I know, Cam. And I just like, man, you're. You're an inspiration to people and I think what you're doing is really powerful and, and it's in such a positive way. And I think just, I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story with, with me and my audience.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Thanks. Yeah, it was fun to have the crossover and think of it kind of in the similar mindset of like, oh yeah, grown tough men probably crying the first time during how we can be on the trail. Also crying because emotions are hard.

[Interviewer / Podcast Host]

There. I'm telling you, we're all so much more connected than we could ever imagine for sure. And that's the beautiful aspect. All right, brother. God bless you, man, and wish you all the best. Thank you.

[Jeff Garmire (Ultra Endurance Athlete)]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser]

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