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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
Ep. 5: Christian Strength, The Past And The Future feat. Raymond Ibrahim
00:58:53
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David Rutherford
O.Com are you willing to fight for what you believe in? Well, today our guest Raymond Abraham tells the historical reality of the battle of Christendom against Assaults. These men were willing to go toe to toe against another ideological jihad in order to save the West. Don't miss this on the David Rutherford Show. Raymond, my man, thank you so much for taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule of lecturing all over the country, all over the world, to come on the show and join us to discuss some incredible wisdom and knowledge that you've accrued over your adult life as to the power of Christendom and what it means for societies. And I just can't thank you enough for joining us.
- [03:23]
Raymond Ibrahim
That's my pleasure, David. I'm very happy to be with you. Thank you.
- [03:27]
David Rutherford
Great. Before we get started, I just wanted to give the audience man. Where I first discovered Raymond was during my time, right after working for the CIA when Libya went down. Part of the spin that came out of that was the government and powers in particular, Hillary Clinton had suggested that all of this took place as a result of these videos online that had sparked this outrage. And after further digging in, we realized that all of that was just a fabricated lie. These were preplanned attacks. If you're paying attention to Sarah Adams, who's on Sean Ryan all the time, my best friend, or better yet, you've listened or paid attention to Raymond for as long as I have, you realize that that's not the case. And I just want to say thank you for the work you did to debunk that and to prove what my buddies were saying, not only in their book 13 hours, but what they've testified to, that this was pre planned, it was staged and it was coming. And so that really made a huge impact on me. And I appreciate your stance to bring out the truth in that particular incident, too.
- [04:42]
Raymond Ibrahim
Yeah, my pleasure. That's such a long time ago. But I do distinctly recall, you know, there was one of the advantages of being bilingual and knowing Arabic and watching Arabic media and reading Arabic literature is you actually get the unvarnished truth while you're hearing a completely different spinning English in America. And I was hearing way before that movie supposedly came out to upset Muslims, that they were planning on this major protest. And then of course, as you say, I recall the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton trying to pin it on some no name movie who apparently upset Muslims by some nonsense. So, yeah, unfortunately there's a lot of that going on.
- [05:21]
David Rutherford
All right, Raymond, so the thing I'd love to have you do is to provide some context for folks out there, because I think what's taken place in a lot of the history books and the way history is taught is that somehow these Crusades kind of launched out of these Christian Crusades, launched out of nowhere to go back and conquer the Holy Land, where the opposite is actually true. There had been hundreds of years of jihad waged against Christendom, not only in the ancient cities of where Christianity originated, but making its way all the way up into Europe. So would you provide a little context as to the magnitude and the savagery that was involved in those initiatives?
- [06:04]
Raymond Ibrahim
Absolutely, David. And you hit on the most important point when it comes to the Crusades, which is that they're always presented nowadays in a vacuum. In other words, and I'll give you a perfect example, I've almost memorized this quote from a professor, from a Georgetown professor where I actually went before over 20 years ago. His name is John Esposito and he's supposed to be an expert on Islamic history, etc. Etc. Read many books. He's a consultant for, you know, intelligence departments, FBI, CIA, military, Pentagon. And in one of his books, I'm slightly paraphrasing it, but it's almost verbatim, he says something like five centuries of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Christians and Muslims before an imperial papal power play led to centuries of so called holy wars that have left an enduring legacy of mistrust and resentment from Muslims to Christians. Okay, so what he's saying is that right before the first crusade was called in 1095, you had nothing but pure peace between Muslims and Christians. Okay? So obviously if you believe that, and as you can see, that's what they pedal, you're gonna the to you, it's the Crusades. The First Crusade at least is going to come off as a completely unwarranted offensive campaign against peaceful Muslims. All right, so what really happened? Okay, now let's go back. He mentioned the five centuries, which essentially is going way back to the time of Muhammad was born, but basically by the time Muhammad dies and the Arabian Peninsula is consolidated under Islamic rule, and the first and second and third Khalifs, etc, you have what's known in history as the great Arab conquests, where they spread out and conquer. Now most people, again because this is part of the spin, don't realize that the lands that they conquer, the lands that we know today in North Africa and the Middle East, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Iraq, and of course Egypt and Libya and Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, all of that was not just Christian, it was more Christian than Europe. That was really the heart of a Christian world at the dawn of Islam, in the seventh century, at the time of these Arab conquests that I'm referring to. And if you look at the sources which I've done, the primary sources from both sides, Muslims and Christians, that the contemporary earliest sources, it was essentially just mass destruction. And from a Muslim side it's definitely described as a jihad. Okay, so they're conquering the infidel according to the principles that we know. You give the non Muslim three choices, convert or become a, you know, you pay tribute and you're the me and you're a second class citizen etc or you fight to the death. Okay, so that's how it's definitely presented in the Islamic sources and in the Christian sources it's just seen as mass destruction and chaos and enslavement, massacres, destruction, ritual destruction of churches. And that's how you know, actually even from the Christian side because they still didn't know this is very early who these Muslims are and what they want. But it comes out of the sources that there's definitely an ideological component because they were very much attacking crosses and churches and going out of their way to desecrate them. So Frinus, the bishop of Jerusalem, who was actually living at the time around 637 actually says all this. So long story short one from a century after Muhammad's death, the traditional date being 632 A.D. and now reached 732 and excuse me, Islam has now conquered all of North Africa, those countries I mentioned, Egypt, Morocco and all of the Middle East. It was known as Greater Syria. Greater Syria essentially encompassed those other countries, Lebanon and Israel, etc and now they're, and they've conquered Spain, which we'll get into in the year 7 11. And now in 732 they're in the middle of France where you have the famous Battle of Tours.
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David Rutherford
Wow.
- [09:55]
Raymond Ibrahim
Yeah. Or the Battle of Poitiers and Charles Martel. And it's, it's known as what you know, an epic great victory. I have a whole chapter about it in one of my books, Sword and Scimitar, chapter three I think, because it is that pivotal and that's my favorite one.
- [10:10]
David Rutherford
I love that book.
- [10:12]
Raymond Ibrahim
Thank you, thank you. And okay, so there it is. So in the, in, you know, I just mentioned that quote From John Esposito. 5 Peaceful Co Century, you know, centuries had elapsed before those evil crusaders. And just in the first century, 3/4 of Christendom, the older, richer, more sophisticated, more important section was completely destroyed and annexed and Islamized. So apparently that's, that's part of the five centuries of peaceful coexistence apparently. Okay. And we can get into a lot of details of what happened, but I'm going to try to fast forward, you know, in the year 1009. So I'm already talking about, you know, we ended at 7:32. Between 732 and the 11th century, you have now the all the Mediterranean nations or sorry, islands get conquered and it's again, it's the same thing. It's depredations. You have mass slavery going on, you know, of the Berbers. The way the sources talk about it, it sounds like a mass slave campaign especially. And then. So 1009, the reason I brought that up is again to underscore just what was happening before the first crusading. Here you have a Fatimid Khalifia Khalif people, don't they forget that in Egypt was actually ruled by Shias for a couple of centuries or even more actually, and that even Al Azhar, it's an ironic fact, Al Azar, this great bastion of Sunni learning, the greatest Islamic Sunni college in the entire world, was founded as a Shia school. And people don't realize that. I find that interesting anyway, that Khalif hacking Bamr Allah is his name in 1009, according to Muslim sources, destroyed 30,000 churches in Egypt and Syria, Greater Syria, which once again emphasizes and shows you how Christian those regions were and also gives you an idea of the sorts of persecution that was going on. Alongside the destruction of the churches was again persecution against Christians as well as Jews and all sorts of taxations making them wear him like 10 pound crosses around their necks and they have to ride donkeys backwards and all sorts of humiliating injunctions and whatnot. So again, I only. This is just, these are, I'm just giving you slight examples. There's many, many more of what was happening that completely flies in the face of the characterization that there was nothing but peace between Muslims and Christians until those pesky crusaders came along. Okay, and then, okay, so let's fast forward some more then around the middle of the 11th century of the rise of the Turks, specifically the Seljuk Turks, who were imported originally as slave soldiers and they essentially take over the Abbasid Caliphate and they keep the caliph as a figurehead. And this goes on for a long time. But if you look at the sources at this time, the, you know, we know about the Armenian genocide at the hands of the turks around the 20th century and the late 19th century, but it really went on, it started a thousand years earlier. Because if you look at the sources and I'M specifically thinking of Matthew of Adessa, a contemporary. He basically documents how those Turks came rushing in from the east and entered Anatolia or Asia Minor, which is now Turkey, and where, where you had a huge Armenian population. And the records just talk about the sack and destruction and massacre of tens of thousands of Christians and the enslavement of even more and the ritual desecration and destruction of churches and crosses. So just in one city, Ani, which was the capital of Armenia at the time, this is maybe, I think around 1065, the Muslim Turks, Seljuks, it was known as the city of 1001 churches. And they ritually destroyed all 1001 churches and destroyed all, all the cre. Crucifixes, except for one very large gilded cross which they sent as a trophy of war to Baghdad. Once again underscoring the ideological component that this wasn't just war between two groups, that this was literally a jihad against the infidel. So this is now going on. And then in the year 1071, about six years later, you have the famous Battle of Manziker, also featured in my book, Sword and Sumatar, because it's a very decisive battle where the Turks defeat the Eastern Roman Empire and the Byzantines as they call them. And after that, you know, all, all resistance collapses in Asia Minor and the church are running amok all the way westward through Asia Minor until they're essentially right across from Constantinople. And this, so this is the background of the First Crusade. And at the same time the Turks were also. Because pilgrimage to the Holy Land had always gone on. And even after the initial Muslim conquest, Jerusalem was conquered in 637. Even at that point, pilgrimages continued. And most Muslim rulers were smart enough to allow it because they completely taxed and extorted the visiting Christ students from Europe to come visit the holy sites in Jerusalem and elsewhere. And even then they were attacked and killed by the populace. Etc, but during, during the time I'm describing the rise of the Turks, it was extremely horrific. They, the, the abuses that the Turks were inflicting on European pilgrims. And one of them is actually very well known. It's around also, I think the year 1065 when Ani was being sacked. And it's, it's been, it's recorded in at least one well documented source where you have an eyewitness talking about how they actually. It was a, it was a large German pilgrimage going to the Holy Land. And among them was a, this, a very, she's described as a very beautiful, but a Nun, who was a very chaste nun, and, you know, I think she's an abbess, actually. And they took her and ritually gang raped her in front of everyone until she died. Okay. And then the chronicler ends it by saying, and the Turks did sort these. These sorts of abuses all the time against our people, such as the backdrop and the impetus and motivation for the First Crusade. So if you listen to what Pope Urban and, you know, Peter the Hermit and all the preachers of the First Crusade, this is what they were talking about. If you read the letters that the Emperor Alexius, Eastern Roman Emperor, sent to the west appealing for aid, that's what he described. Okay. What I just described. And it. And even more, you know, they talk about how they would go into the churches, the Turks, and split open people and tie their intestines to the, you know, coal and wick them until they die. They would circumcise boys and throw the blood in baptismal fonts, et cetera, et cetera. At which point Pope Orin finally said it, you know, who's going to address and avenge and redress these wrongs? And which point the famous line, deus vult came out. God wills it. And all the Khrushnol, all the Franks and Christians who heard it committed to the First Crusade. So that's what really was happening leading to the First Crusade. Even though we are told, and most people think that there was nothing but peaceful coexistence amongst Muslims and Christians until those evil, pesky Catholics decided to go and ruin it all.
- [17:12]
David Rutherford
It's staggering to me how easily history is manipulated. But that's been the case forever. To the victor of the spoils. And. And what really, I think for me as a Christian, and I'm a relatively new Christian, I got saved in 2010 on a trip right before I went out to Afghanistan. I was about ready to have my first child. And I'd been struggling with my faith since I left the teams because I knew that God was watching out for me. I just didn't know how to accept it and what to do with it. And so it was this battle that took place with me because I didn't understand the history. Even though I was able to read the New Testament and read the Old Testament as a young man, I didn't know how to decipher that or where to find it. And so I think it really comes down to these unique stories of individuals that really kind of flip or change the ability for people to become emotionally invested in the past or the history, their legacy or lineage. And, you know, once I got saved, I got deeper and deeper. I found you in 2012, started following, paying attention and was like, oh, my God, you know, this is what all my buddies during the gwa, you know, them with those tattoos like Secretary Hagseth. And, you know, I don't even know five or six friends that had the Jerusalem cross across their whole backs. And they would look at me and they'd be like, hey, Rut, man, you need to know your history if you're going to be a Christian. I go, I'm not even sure what that means. What do you, you know, and so what I would love for you to do and one of the things that I think one of the places that I've been inspired was the story of the Reconquista in Spain, which is, you know, if, you know, hopefully you can do it, a much better description than I can. But it was this small pocket of Christians that were like, hey, if we don't rise up, it's over for us. We will be permanently conquered forever. And I just want, you know, for you to share that story and that movement and the impact that it has, because what I want, you know, young Christian men out there, even young men who believe in the Western, the beauty of Western culture and its emergence because it was directly correlated to Christendom, to give them something they can lean into. So would you talk about Spain a little bit for us?
- [19:51]
Raymond Ibrahim
Yeah, absolutely. And all you said, I agree with, and maybe we'll get into it, but it's really a concerted effort to divorce modern day Christian men from their rich, robust, muscular heritage and convince them that if you want to be a good Christian, you have to be a doormat. And anything other than that is, you know, you're an evil hypocrite. Okay. And that's a, that's its own very important topic, which at some point we can address. But as far as the Reconquista in the story that you're referring to, this is, you know, I always say it, but, you know, the famous saying, which is history is stranger than fiction in this case, history is way more dramatic than fiction. And the story will, which I'll quickly summarize, this could be such a blockbuster movie. And they don't even have to exaggerate. They don't have to, you know, the script is written and it's called the historical records in the chronicles.
- [20:46]
David Rutherford
Yeah, right.
- [20:46]
Raymond Ibrahim
But basically, yeah, basically, as I was alluding earlier in the year 7 11, the Muslims finally having conquered all of North Africa, and now they're in Morocco or Mauritania. They now cross the straits and they're in Spain and they conquer it. And of course, Spain at this point is a Christian nation ruled by the Visigoth or the Western Goths, who are Christians. And they, they beat them, they destroy them, they oust them, and they essentially take over. Now. Oh, you know, think of the, the, the peninsula of Spain. If you split. It looks like a square. If you split it in four, the northwestern, the top left, and not all of it, but just a very, very small northern portion which is very rugged, mountainous, you know, intemperate weather, not a great place. So most Christians were conquered and they became subjects of the Muslim invaders, as they became known the Moors. And. But a very, very small pocket actually fled a sort of resistance group and lived in the mountains. And you know, depending on the sources, according to the Muslim sources, it was something like 12, you know, Christians. One of them who became their king is Pelagius or Pelayo. And he's sort of, you know, he's the founder essentially of the resistance movement against. Is the Muslim conquest of the Spains. So they're holed up literally in a cave. And according to Al Makari, who's one of the primary Muslim historians of this time, like I said, they're just a small group. And the Muslims tried to oust them, but it was just too difficult in that terrain. And they said, what are 10 or 12 Christians? Let them rot. And from that, and the Christians themselves, Pelagius. So at one point during the conflict, before they said let them rot, they had a parlay at the cave. And one of the. And the man who parlayed with Pelagius was actually some bishop who had succumbed to Islamic rule and was now, you know, and sort of, you know, a henchman for the Muslims. He went there to try to cajole him and say, you know, don't resist, join us. And Pelagius resisted and said. And he basically likens their little cave to the mustard seed in the, in the parable of Christ which grows into a great kingdom, okay? And he said, from this tiny mustard seed which you. You're mocking, we're going to come back. And they did, century after century. So from that small seed you had very, a very few small. In the northwestern quadrant again, Christian kingdoms developed. And you know, they, and, and the whole thing between them was war with the Muslims. And this is the Reconquista. And it starts slowly and slowly they start moving southward and southward. But even before that, you Know, they were still in the cave and whatnot. The Muslims were waging and sending two, two annual campaigns according to, you know, the Sharia. You have to go and devastate. And they would go and devastate and take as many slaves as they could and kill. So this is, I always called Spain as something of a microcosm of the perennial jihad between Christendom and Islam. It was all concentrated there. People often think of the Holy Land and the Crusades and justifiably so. But really, if you look at Spain, it just, it was all there in one, encapsulated, you know, closed off, sort of, like I said, microcosm. So it was a continuous warfare and it begins the Reconquista there. You know, depending on the dates. Some actually say the real formal date is in 1085 when Toledo is conquered. Toledo is essentially right in the heart of Spain and it was the old Visigothic capital. So when it was taken from the Muslims, this was a real watershed moment. And at any rate, it was the same thing. And they continued warring constantly. And you know, you get all these now savage, wild Berber Islamic fanatical groups that come from Africa who are essentially isis. They're actually described as dressed in black and all you see is their eyes and all they do is scream, you know, tawheed or jihadist slogans essentially. And they come and they create mountains of heads, pyramids of Christian heads, and there's wars. And this goes on, you know, so 711 is a conquest. Soon thereafter you have the, the mountain Pelagius and the resistance begins. And basically this goes on until 1492. So we're talking over 700 years. All right, this is how long it took Spain to rid itself of invading Islam and all the depredations. Cordoba, which we hear of as this great, you know, bastion of multiculturalism, again, this is how the historians like to present it, or some of them anyway, was actually a massive slave emporium for the entire Muslim world because it was a base in Spain, in Europe, and they preferred fair skinned slaves. So it was from that base that they would get northern slaves from Spain and also from Europe, all throughout Europe. So that was much of its wealth was the slave trade, you know, and anyway, and you, you fast forward all the way, like I said, to 1492 and Ferdinand and Elizabeth, Isabella. And then, you know, that's. And even then that's not the end of it because essentially Granada, the final bastion of Islam, their southern tip, is captured. And then the Muslims had uprisings. And for Centuries. They're now pretending to be Christians and engaging in what's called Takea, but their heart's still with Islam and we can get into that. But anyway, that is the story of its heroic resistance, self sacrifice. I, I write about it a lot in both my books because it is, like you said, one of the most pivotal moments. And it's one of those things, like I said, imagine you can make what a blockbuster movie that would be of just heroic resistance. But they will never do that because the resistance is from Christians fighting Muslims who are conquering their lands. And that's not the. Those are all topics that nobody wants to touch. If it was the opposite, if it was Christians terrorizing and killing Muslims, of course that would be all over. And Muslims could be presented as heroes. Yeah, that would be a major movie. But such as it is, it won't.
- [26:51]
David Rutherford
Oh, man, I, I completely concur with that. You know, I, I think about, you know, as a kid and, and what were the things that really were inspiring me. And I can't imagine if there had been more movies that really talked about that. Historically, for me, in the 70s growing up, it's all the World War II movies, right? It's a bridge too far. It's those movies. And then it's also the other concepts of American past, our American past, of. In the United States, in the conquest. Right. One of the things, why do kids always play cowboys and Indians? Is because you grew up during those times and now you're like, yeah, man, these people, these trappers in particular. I just read an article yesterday about how Scottish immigrants in the 1600s would join forces with Native Americans and integrate into their tribes and in order to understand the savage West. So there's all this history that had I been exposed to as a young man, would have driven me, in my opinion, closer to faith. Because I would have said, all right, oh man. Cause one of the things that I think I struggled with after leaving the teams was, all right, I need to put that away. I need to put that warrior mindset off to the side so I can integrate into society where just the time you're talking about from what, 711 to 1492 and even beyond, Christians have been fighting for their place in the world, for their place in their own lands against a never ending assault. Right. And if I had seen that, and if I had seen something powerful like that, what that would have done, it would have, I think, strengthened my face, therefore strengthened my culture and strengthened my confidence of where I come from and who I am. So I agree. Now there is, I think, a little bit of gouge out there that Mel Gibson is making a movie about the siege at Malta. I'm hoping that's true and it's not just Internet nonsense, but maybe that'll crack the case. Right. And get started for us.
- [29:20]
Raymond Ibrahim
I'd actually like to comment what you just said, please. I'd like to elaborate because you, you really made you, you really brought up some very important points which resonate with me. When I was a younger man as well especially I always thought like if I want to be a good Christian, I have to essentially be a woman. You know, I had to be so emasculated and anything that I had a natural proclivity for, you know. I've always enjoyed medieval warfare and the image of a knight and warriors from all cultures.
- [29:49]
David Rutherford
You remember the movie Excalibur, back from the old days?
- [29:52]
Raymond Ibrahim
Of course.
- [29:54]
David Rutherford
The lady of the Like, I must. I. Dude, if I. Dude, I don't know how many off the time, Raymond, I come out and I'll go, just be sitting there, my kids will be around and I'll go all nal Nath rock Uthvas Bethud Dolheal Niende. Right. And they'll be like, what the hell are you saying? I'm like, it's, it's the sorcery. Yeah, I'm sorry.
- [30:16]
Raymond Ibrahim
You know, and, but there's this kind of like thing in the culture especially again if you want to be a western Christian where like that's bad, that's, you know, you're, you're, that's, that's evil. You have to be a doormat. That's the only thing. I've since come to learn that this is actually all by design.
- [30:34]
David Rutherford
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Raymond Ibrahim
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Raymond Ibrahim
World gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.
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Raymond Ibrahim
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- [33:58]
Raymond Ibrahim
Of at Ameca, we understand, understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human amica. Empathy is our best policy. There's this kind of like, thing in, in the culture. Especially again, if you want to be a Western Christian where like, that's bad. That's, you know, you're, you're, that's, that's evil. You have to be a doormat. That's the only thing. I've since come to learn that this is actually all by design. You know, if you're an enemy of Christianity, the number one thing that you're going to want to do is convince Christians that the religion begins and ends with turning the other cheek. Okay? And it doesn't. Is that a component of Christianity? Of course. But it's very much balanced with something else. And that's, you know, the classic idea of heresy. The meaning is you take one aspect of teachings and you ignore the rest. And so that's really what's going on. They've, they've convinced Christians, you know, you want to be a good Christian man, then you're essentially going to become a woman, okay? You have to be totally emasculated. You have to, you know, reject any kind of militancy or anything like that. Because that's all evil. That's evil Crusaders. And this, by the way, is why the crusaders are so hated and they must constantly and always be demonized because if people really know what they're all about, they're actually very attractive and something you are going to gravitate towards and kind of want to emulate, okay? Because they are heroic and they're good and they're Christian and they're noble and chivalrous, etc. Etc. So that's why I think for decades, if not centuries, they've been so attacked and undermined because people who don't like Christianity, I, I, I mentioned this sometimes, but, you know, I don't, it was, it wasn't the last Super Bowl, I think it was the one before where this is the classic example. They had this commercial and there was no talking. All it was was images of people washing the feet of other people, okay? And it was, ironically enough, all the people on their knees washing feet were white, normal, traditional looking Americans. And everyone getting their feet washed were, okay, people of color. A Muslim wearing a turban, a woman in a hijab, you know, a migrant who obviously in the scene is like, they just cross the border and it ends up by saying something like, jesus didn't preach hate he washed his feet. Okay, so that is the approved, promoted form of Christianity in the West. And if you follow that, and that's all you do, which is you're, you're a doormat and you turn the other cheek. And, and by the way, it's easy to do all that stuff. So in a way, it's kind of a. They make a virtual advice, the Christians who actually embrace this, because it's easy not to be confrontational, it's easy not to stand up for what's right. It's easy to be a doormat and let people walk all over you. So, but that is the kind of thing that's being approved and you can see why it is so unattractive and why so many men fall away from Christianity, rightfully so. Because that is not it. That's not the truth. The real Christianity, yeah, you have tolerance, you have forgiveness, but you also have cords of whips and tables being overturned in righteous indignation and wrath. And that has been completely torn asunder and not part of our Christian heritage, which the Crusaders and all these pre modern heroic Christians definitely understood. So I think that's, you know, you want to. When you mentioned what you were saying, it reminded me too, of my, my youth and how I just thought like, either I'm a really bad Christian or I need to, like, stop liking these things. And this is also why you find Westerners who convert to Islam, because it, at least it gives it room to vent for these sorts of masculine traits. And if you feel like the only thing, you know, Christianity, all it offers is weeping and acting like a woman and being a doormat. Yeah, I get it for how that so many men just can't tolerate that. It's so against their nature. Anyway, that was a little rant that you've sort of provoked in my mind.
- [37:51]
David Rutherford
I'm glad you said it. What I found fascinating is that you've got this beautiful Egyptian descent, right? You grew up speaking Arabic and English and so you can read the language. So it's not as if you're interpreting it through all those different translations that either diluted or whatever the message. Message or protected the message, if you will. But I certainly have spent my fair share in Muslim lands. In particular, most of the time I spent in Afghanistan. And I worked with a ton of different interpreters and from different sects and different backgrounds, Shia and Sunni, and have numerable friends that have worked with all of them different in Iraq and all over Africa, you name it. And you know what? I always extrapolated from their stance when I would press them. Because when I was doing that, I was going through this time in my life trying to figure out what it meant to be a Christian, can I be a warrior and a Christian too? And it's because I had no background, I had no understanding of the knowledge that you have, the wisdom that you have from our background. And so I would hear these men talk to me in earnestness because they have a tendency, any culture that's been involved in war for as long as the Afghans have, they talk in real terms and their perceptions and terms that are imbued with the presence of violence. Right. Eye for an eye. And so what I remember respecting most about their stance and their faith was the strength that, that they imbued in them, the masculinity that emerged from their faith. And I had a profound respect for that. And I think we're seeing that, you know, kind of rise again. And we're seeing that rise again in areas that had, you know, traditionally been predominantly Christian in nature. And when you look at Western Europe and you look at, you know, you look at Britain and you look at, or England and you look at Ireland, man, you see there's I think, this confidence collapse that's taking place because of the profound amount of immigration that's happening. When you look at what's going on in Europe and to a certain extent in America, you know, there was just that recent thing in New Jersey that they're trying to implement Sharia law on a particular magistrate, you know, but you look at it in particular Europe and the place where these, you know, the historical relevance of these men that fought back against the tyranny of jih. You know, what is taking place for these young men over there? What is a way that they can reintegrate themselves as a predominant voice in their cultures in order to combat what seems to be a growing temperature of radicalization.
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Raymond Ibrahim
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- [43:48]
Raymond Ibrahim
Yeah, they unfortunately have a long and hard road against them because they've gone so far back with what they've done. And again, you know, the best way to understand is compare and contrast their behavior with their ancestors who I describe in, you know, let's say Defenders of the west. And I talk about European heroes who were the exact opposite. These were the men that we were alluding to earlier, the heroes who actually gave everything they had and they didn't have to. A lot of these men were kings and emperors who actually left everything just to go and fight and defend the cause of Christendom. And you know, it's. What's interesting to me, and I've said this before, is whereas Muslims are walking in perfect continuity with their ancestors, they still have the same mentality because it's part and parcel of Islamic teaching, which is hostility for the non Muslim, the infidel, the camper, and you know, the imperative to conquer and subjugate, etc. And you see this by, from Muslims, both in the Muslim world, but even more so in Europe because wherever you go and you have large pockets of Muslims, you know, think, think Sweden, think England, Germany, France, you have problems, serious problems, okay? But then the west, we were talking about the defenders of the west, the Christians, their modern descendants, are actually walking in perfect discontinuity with their ancestors. So instead of fighting tooth and nail and resisting them, they're going out of their way to bring them in. And I always say this and it's, it's so mind boggling when you think of it this way. But unfortunately too many Western people, white people, if you will, they think of themselves as sort of, you know, as. Because they look at western nations and they see that they're still the majority and they think somehow, you know, they owe it to everyone else. But in reality, if you look at the world population, the white population, something like 4% of the whole world. And I just find it amazing that that 4% is the one that is being obligated to open its doors to everyone, to abnegate and disavow its heritage and its religion and its culture and its civilization to suppress itself. It's just amazing, you know, have you never seen such self suicidal impetus? And then you compare it to the earlier, the ones we're talking about, the heroes, their forefathers, little wonder they hate them. And they don't want to talk about the crus haters and they want to suppress them because they're doing the exact opposite. Whereas the first guys, the, the heroes were fighting for the cause of Christendom and Christianity, fighting for their cultures and their civilization. These Europeans, at least their leaders, are doing everything possible to destroy their people. I mean, when you look at, when I hear stories coming out of England, the attack on free speech, that you can't even say the truth and you're gonna get, it's just, I don't get how the English people don't realize they've become slaves, okay? And it doesn't matter if they think those people are elected officials or not. It's, it's one big charade at this point when they're doing what they're doing and it's so obvious.
- [46:45]
David Rutherford
Wow.
- [46:45]
Raymond Ibrahim
I saw and I tr and I put in one of my books, I have a quote from some sort of parliamentarian in Germany, I think in Munich, Stephanie something. And basically she gets up and says, oh, you know, I have news for all you right wingers who are complaining that, you know, this city or Germany in general is going to be Muslim majority in whatever years. And that's what actually some pew, pew, Pew numbers, Pew results. Pupils say that like 20, something like 20, 50 Muslims might be like 50%. And she goes, and that's a good thing. I mean, think about that mentality. And I just told you, you're 4% of the world population and you're boasting because you're. That 4% in its own homeland is giving up its homeland even more. It's just, it's really a sick, almost diabolical mentality and it's become so pervasive that people don't notice it. It's, you know, you, I always talk about the boiling frog syndrome. You know, if you're, if you're in that, then you're just boiling and boiling and boiling. It just, you don't even get it anymore. But this is, if you, if you can step out of reality for a moment. If people could look at what's happening in the west and what the west is doing to itself, it's just mind boggling. It's utterly unprecedented. And, but as far as your question, you know what, what, man, you can do that. This is why I say it's so hard, because everything is set against them. Everything from the way these, the models of Christianity are being demonized constantly to the fact that you can't even open your mouth without possibly getting in trouble with the law. It's, the system is not going to work for them. Okay? The bottom line is doing it the normal way at the voting poll or the voting booth. It's not going to work because the whole thing is at this point rigged. But at the same time, you know, I was telling you, why do they actually try to emasculate men and Christians? There's a reason that they want to con here in the West. You know, they want to convince every boy that he's a little girl. And it's not just perversion, which it is, but it's also, if you want to rule and govern and dominate a place, you want to do it. You want to rule and govern a country run by women. And if I Turn every man and make him think he's a woman essentially. And he's just given up on. He doesn't ever resist. I'm going to rule and control that country. So that's, I think been going on for decades. And that's why western men have been so emasculated. And so even at this point I don't think they could, you know, get up and do what they have to do, which is whatever is necessary. Because of generations of them being so utterly emasculated from every corner, one from kindergarten, from the media, from the church that they go to. It's become a very difficult thing and you know, it's not very hopeful. But such is a situation, it might have to get worse before it gets better.
- [49:28]
David Rutherford
Wow, that's heavy and, and, and true. All of it. Everything you said before I let you go, Raymond, because I know how busy you are and I again, I really appreciate your time. Is there a particular person that you, a story that you can reference or just, you know, drop that seed, right? Be that sower for young men that are gonna watch this show or even young women, you know, that are fascinated by what you're saying, but is that there's that one person in history that if they dig into and they get going, that they could get going and find this history and bring it back to life as almost, you know, a crusade in their own faith, right? In their own soul, the battle that's being waged in their own soul. Is there a person that you would lead to?
- [50:23]
Raymond Ibrahim
Yeah, actually, and it may be because we already spoke about him, but I'll tell you why it's even above and beyond that. But it's Pelagius of Spain of the Reconquista, the man who was in the hold up region. And the reason I say that is his situation was not unlike what I just described. Think about it. His country had been destroyed and taken over by the enemy openly and a lot of his countrymen succumbed and, and you know, were willing to live as basically second class citizens of Muslims and they were being abused, you know, even though they were paying their tribute, it wasn't. They were. But he and a very tiny band of radicals and who would not deign to submit to the yoke of Islam, suffered and went and lived in a cage just. And they were described like animals who are just going to die off because they didn't have food. Okay. And because that's how bad the situation was. But they persevered and like I said, you even said the word seed Right now they, they mentioned the mustard seed and from that tiny thing. And even though they went through so much suffering and sacrifices, it developed, it took centuries. And, and that's why, you know, when we talk about Europe right now, it's this. Even if, even if this was emulated and something like that would happen, a sort of resistance movement, it's going to take a long time to, you know, readjust and realign and bring things back to normal. But it could be done. Even these guys, look what they did. They, they chose a life of sacrifice for what they believe and they actually anchored it in Christian faith and they fought back and, and maybe at some other point we can talk about just war theory because that's a whole other issue, you know. Yeah.
- [52:02]
David Rutherford
If you're willing, man, I'd love to have you back regularly to tell these stories, to bring them back into the forefront of our consciousness here in the States and in Christian consciousness, to reinvigorate Christian men to recognize where they come from in the heritage. I would love to have you back, Raymond, what's going on right now in your life? Where can people find all of your material? Where can they find your books and how can they follow you?
- [52:33]
Raymond Ibrahim
Sure, David. The one easy quick way is just my website, raymond ibrahim.r a y M O N D I B R A H I M and all my articles are there and links to my books and videos. I've been trying to kind of cultivate a YouTube channel, so on occasion I also make videos and this video will be on it as well, which is good. And as far as the topics that we're discussing, because, you know, I've read several books and each one deals with something and I had it right here because I was actually quoting from it. But anyone who's interested in the, the heroic aspect aspect, here it is Defenders of the west, the Christian heroes who stood against Islam. The story of Pelagius is in there that I was talking about, but also all these other guys who like I said, who just. And so many of them are, and you know, like King Richard. You hear about King Richard and you read what's written about it by modern historians and he just appears like a bum, you know, a dirt bag and he's just like really bad way. You read the primary sources, including what the Muslims said about him and you just get this, this amazing hero, a self sacrificing king basically. So there's definitely a lot of correctives that need to be done. But yeah, if anyone's interested, I think I would recommend that book, because it really is. No, it's the one that will most inspire young men to understand what it was to become a Christian warrior.
- [53:55]
David Rutherford
Outstanding, Raymond. I can't thank you enough. And Godspeed on your journey and your message, brother. Take care.
- [54:02]
Raymond Ibrahim
Thank you, David. I appreciate it. Same to you.
- [54:07]
David Rutherford
Another powerful, powerful message that we've had on the David Rutherford Show. Really stoked Raymond came on and shared that stuff. What we want to also just inform you, we have this great Patreon account where we have additional content available. We have all this extra information. I'm going to be teaching motivational courses in the future. I'll be giving motivational live events with Q and A. Go visit us our Patreon site, David rutherford show. It's $2 easy subscription fee. We got a lot of great stuff and something special coming soon. We're going to announce on Wednesday, so don't miss it. Our Patreon account history. It's one of the components that I think in the modern era, we're beginning to realize that there's a lot more to our history than we've been allowed to understand. I think you see it all over the Internet and all different types of historical podcasts that are emerging from Dan Carlin's history podcast to Daryl Cooper, who's constantly under salt his podcast, and many others. What's taking place is we're starting to really dig in. And what you heard today from a man that has been comprehensively dedicated to the history of Christians and the fight to survive from Raymond Ibrahim was something that was powerful. And I hope you recognize that. I hope you realize that maybe a lot of what you've been told about the Crusades was just not accurate and that the Crusades were a result of 400 years of vicious, savage attacks on a religion of peace. And don't get me wrong, I have no illusion about other aspects. And the automatic response I typically hear was, what about the Catholic Church and pedophilia? Or what about the Catholic Church and it's. It's atrocious behavior to children and women and all these other things. Yeah, got it. No one group of people are innocent of their sins. That's the point of Christendom, right? That we're always sinning and that's what Christ died on the cross for, so that our sins would be forgiven. You know, the other aspect is to recognize that, you know, in society today, there's many people that are completely happy and very gracious towards other people and their ability to, you know, in their ability to allow Certain cultures to fight for what they believe in, right? To allow Muslims to be able to stand up and consume city blocks and have call to prayer wherever they want, or to. To allow Israelis to fight for their own sovereignty, their own existence, and the existential threat that Israel faces every day. But there's a bizarre thing, I think, taking place where there's a large group of people who have a problem with Christians fighting for what they believe in. And I'm not sure why that is as they promote others. But. But I know for me, I'm proud to be a Christian. It's been the most important thing in my life, but it's also been a struggle to try and understand what about my faith that invokes a deeper spirit, a deeper sense of pride that I'm willing to stand toe to toe against an enemy that wants to take me down, an evil enemy, that negative insurgency. And so what I wanted to do after this beautiful, glorious Easter weekend, which is not about Easter egg hunts and family dinners, it's about the reality that my Messiah, my living God, rose based on the word of God, the good news that God loves you, and that if we love, our neighbors will find salvation in the afterlife. And for that, he was crucified. He was attacked for those beliefs, right? Much like Christians around the world are being attacked now. And he was attacked and he was condemned and he was nailed to that cross and he died. But he didn't die for his own sins. He died for yours. He died for mine. And that's something that we should bear the burden of that sacrifice. And I think at its heart, that's what Christianity is really about. It's the recognition that we must be willing to sacrifice what we want, wish and desire for the person that needs it, needs to be lifted up, that needs to be propped up and said, hey, it's okay, I forgive you. But guess what? You have to get in the fight of life, you have to be righteous in order to achieve that salvation. And the reality was he is risen. And that's the whole thing. He was crucified, and then three days later, he arose. Now, that's been under attack since the moment it happened. And if you look at the persecution of the apostles, you look at the persecution of the apostle that I most connect with in this life, and that was. That was Saul who became Paul, right? This is literally a man who went out and sought out to destroy Christians, to kill them, to get rid of them. And through that divine intervention on the road from Damascus, Christ appeared blind in him. And then he had the scales removed from his eyes so he could see the truth of what Christ was, who he is in our lives, his actions and what they represent, which is a fight. And our salvation is tied to that fight. And so what did Paul do, man? I mean, three shipwrecks. He was almost stoned to death. He was imprisoned. And even in Rome, he went to the emperor, speaking to the emperor directly, and said, you can be saved. And what did they give him? They gave him a dose. They chopped off his head and crucified him, just like they did all the rest of them. And so from that movement of standing up for your beliefs, Christendom spread and spread all through the Middle east, all through the areas that we now see have been overtaken and are dominated by these different religions and cultures. And then, you know, starting in 634, you know, Islam established a caliphate and decided they were going to persecute Christians and get rid of them, because in the very nature of it, jihad for some is an obligation. And then for 400 years, they went after it, penetrating all the way up into France, all through Italy, all through all the ancient world. They eradicated the oldest churches, killed millions and millions of people, enslaved millions and millions of people, until finally someone decided, I'm going to stand up and fight for what I believe in. And from that recognition, I was able to develop some strength in my own life. Not necessarily to go out and dawn my shield or don my armor and wage war, but more so to don the armor of God's love so that I can wage war against sin, wage war against the evil that's out there, that's corrupting young people, corrupting people, and more importantly, that it corrupted me in many different ways. And I think that's the key to recognize is that through that strength of the Word, through those actions of Christ, you are strong. And you're strong enough to wage a war beyond just preaching the good news or the Word. But it's literally to take up arms if you have to, to dig in and allow your culture to exist when it's under assault. And you can't let all these other ideas, you know, infiltrate and convince you that it's not. Because for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, it has been under assault. So whether or not you want to take the literal meaning. And, you know, what does everybody always say? Everybody comes back and they say, well, Christ was a hippie man. He didn't have an army. He didn't go out there and persecute his enemies or anything like that. And I'm like, yeah, that's true. And he wanted to preach love, and if we can get that point of love, you know, there's an opportunity for salvation. But you know what? At 12, he did enter the temple, and he did confront the people that were being saying contradictory things. And then one of my favorite parts of Christ, his legacy and his story was when he flipped the tables over, he said, how dare you come into the house of the Lord and do what you're doing, man? He flipped those tables. So to. To try and generate this idea that Christ was some weak person. Here's what I want you to do, is I want you to go read the Book of Revelations, because that's powerful stuff right there. It's incumbent upon people, when your culture is under assault or your belief systems are under assault, that you are willing to rise up in a capacity and don that armor and to fight for what you believe in. So if you're listening to this or you're trying to understand, I beg you to go read Raymond's books, the Defenders of the west, the Sword and the Sigmatar. Right? Go read these incredible stories of the Reconquista. Go read these incredible stories of the Battle of Malta or those incredible epic battles of the siege in Constantinople and other areas, and read your rich history, because you're part of that. If you are a Christian, that's a part of you. And don't deny that truth. Don't deny that history, because that's the history that will make you strong. Jordi and I just want to thank you for coming and being part of our team here at the David Rutherford Show. Please don't forget to, like, subscribe, leave a comment and share these episodes if they're having any impact on you or you love the content. Don't be afraid to share it with the people. Share it on your own social media. We want you to cut, splice, dice, push out in every way. You have our permission to go out there and push these out. Also, if you can follow on our social media platforms, the show itself is avidrutherfordshow. That's on YouTube. That's on rumble. That's on Patreon. That's on Instagram. That's on TikTok. That's everywhere you can find it. Same thing, the David Rutherford show on audio platforms, right? That's Spotify, Apple, Iheart's platform, and then on X, it's RutherfordShow. You can follow us there. We'd love to have you follow and share content there. And then if you have any interest whatsoever. And following my late night ramblings or my in the airport analysis or the type of stuff I'm sharing, the news stories I think are relevant and powerful. You can follow me on X Instagram really are the only two places that I'm posting right now and that's EAMfrogLogic. David Rutherford EAM FrogLogic all right, Huya, thank you.
- [66:56]
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