Fitness, Faith & Finding Your Purpose | Michael Smoak | Ep. 18

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fitness, Faith & Finding Your Purpose | Michael Smoak | Ep. 18

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Fitness, Faith & Finding Your Purpose | Michael Smoak | Ep. 18
• Release Date: June 2, 2025
• Description: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics, and current events with intelligence and humor. This episode features Michael Smoak, who discusses his unconventional approach to fitness, faith, and personal development.

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1. Introduction of the Guest

Timestamp: [03:00] – [04:02]

David, one of the hosts, introduces Michael Smoak, praising his unique impact on the fitness industry. He highlights Michael's ability to inspire young men to transform their lives beyond conventional fitness paradigms.

Notable Quote:

David: “It's not often that you get to have somebody come on your show that literally is exploding in an industry in a way that might not be the most conventional approach.” ([03:00])

Michael's Response:

Mike: “It's truly an honor... if just one person takes just one thing from this conversation, least on my end, it'll all be worth it.” ([04:02])

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2. Fitness and Supplements

Timestamp: [04:26] – [08:21]

David and Michael delve into the role of supplements in a healthy lifestyle. Michael emphasizes that supplements should supplement an already healthy routine rather than replace foundational habits like sleep, training, nutrition, and recovery.

Key Points:

• Creatine as a Staple: Michael advocates for creatine, citing its extensive research and benefits for both physical performance and cognitive function.

• Dosage Insights: He discusses the standard and mega doses of creatine, sharing his personal experience with increased cognitive sharpness when sleep-deprived.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “Creatine is absolutely a staple for me... It's the cheapest supplement you can buy. It also happens to be one of the most effective.” ([05:07])

Mike: “On average, unless you're a non-responder, you're going to increase your ability for force output.” ([05:07])

---

3. Nootropics and Cognitive Enhancement

Timestamp: [08:21] – [13:18]

The conversation shifts to nootropics, with a focus on nicotine. Michael outlines the cognitive benefits of nicotine when used responsibly, contrasting it with its destructive potential when abused through smoking or other unhealthy means.

Key Points:

• Definition of Nootropics: Compounds that enhance cognitive functions such as reaction time, mental clarity, and focus.

• Nicotine’s Dual Nature: While nicotine can boost mental performance, its delivery method (e.g., smoking) poses significant health risks.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “Nootropics, for those who don't know, are brain-boosting compounds... Nicotine, in and of itself isolated as a chemical, is a drug, but it is a nootropic.” ([09:38])

Mike: “People are chasing dopamine and they'll go through any route... I just want to make my stance clear.” ([12:02])

---

4. Dopamine, Social Media, and Authenticity

Timestamp: [13:18] – [17:10]

Michael and David explore the impact of dopamine-driven behaviors, particularly in the context of social media usage. Michael underscores the importance of choosing sustainable and healthy sources of dopamine over instant but fleeting gratifications.

Key Points:

• Awareness of Dopamine Triggers: Recognizing activities that hijack brain chemistry, such as excessive scrolling or unhealthy eating.

• Healthy Alternatives: Engaging in activities like ice baths, training sessions, or spending time outdoors to achieve deeper and longer-lasting dopamine boosts.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “If you want to get dialed in, you have a big conversation or big podcast... investing in an expensive route to get there.” ([15:07])

Mike: “I fall short. I'll catch myself scrolling for an hour and a half... I catch myself and I pull myself off the phone.” ([17:10])

---

5. Michael's Origin Story and Authenticity in Content Creation

Timestamp: [22:57] – [36:33]

Michael shares his journey into content creation, emphasizing the role of authenticity and vulnerability in his rapid growth. He attributes his success to stepping into his true self and sharing genuine parts of his life.

Key Points:

• Early Growth: Unexpected viral success helped him gain a substantial following quickly.

• Radical Authenticity: Embracing who he truly is, including his struggles and triumphs, resonated with his audience.

• Content Evolution: Transitioning from pure fitness content to a broader range of topics like sales, public speaking, and personal development.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “The formula of authenticity plus vulnerability plus consistency always equals success, in my opinion.” ([35:30])

Mike: “I hate the fitness industry because I think a lot of people are putting on a facade.” ([25:03])

---

6. Finding Purpose and the Role of Physical Health

Timestamp: [38:56] – [44:32]

The discussion transitions to the importance of physical health as the foundation for finding one's purpose. Michael argues that a healthy body clears the mind, enabling individuals to discover and pursue their true passions.

Key Points:

• Physical Health as a Launchpad: Proper nutrition, sleep, and exercise create the clarity needed for personal growth.

• Delayed Gratification: Building fitness habits teaches patience and perseverance, essential traits for discovering purpose.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “If you don't make [healthy choices], they will materialize in the form of a lifestyle-related disease on average.” ([51:05])

Mike: “Getting fit is not about suffering, it's about raising your awareness.” ([15:07])

---

7. Faith and Personal Transformation

Timestamp: [45:03] – [52:43]

Michael opens up about his spiritual journey, particularly how his father’s illness and passing led him to deepen his faith. This experience solidified his commitment to helping others through his platform.

Key Points:

• Turning Point: Watching his father suffer due to neglecting health inspired Michael to prioritize wellness and faith.

• Spiritual Growth: Finding peace and purpose through his relationship with God during challenging times.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “God put me there to be with him in his last six months... I couldn't lean on myself.” ([46:33])

Mike: “James chapter one, verse two through four... that produces perseverance.” ([50:58])

---

8. Advice to Young Men and Women

Timestamp: [37:57] – [41:41]

Michael offers guidance to young individuals seeking direction in life. He emphasizes starting with small, consistent actions and prioritizing physical well-being to unlock broader personal potential.

Key Points:

• Start Small: Incorporate manageable changes like daily movement or reducing screen time.

• Accountability and Community: Engage with supportive communities and seek authentic relationships to sustain growth.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “Your vulnerability and your authenticity is your superpower.” ([53:22])

Mike: “If you're not prioritizing exercise, daily movement, whatever you enjoy, then there is no... reason you're not where you want to be in life.” ([41:41])

---

9. Conclusion and Where to Follow Michael

Timestamp: [53:22] – [54:38]

In closing, Michael encourages listeners to embrace their unique selves and shares information on how to connect with him for further inspiration and support.

Key Points:

• Embrace Authenticity: Stay true to oneself to stand out in the saturated content landscape.

• Connect with Michael: Follow his platforms under the username Higher Up Wellness and engage with his podcast for ongoing motivation.

Notable Quotes:

Mike: “You are the niche, no one can be you.” ([35:30])

Mike: “If you're interested, ... my username across all platforms is the same. My name is Michael Smoke, but my username is Higher Up Wellness on everything.” ([53:22])

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode with Michael Smoak offers a deep dive into the intertwined nature of fitness, faith, and personal purpose. Michael's candid discussion about his struggles, faith journey, and commitment to authenticity provides listeners with valuable insights and actionable advice. His emphasis on the foundational role of physical health in achieving broader life goals serves as an inspiring reminder of the power of holistic well-being.

For more content from Michael Smoak, follow him on social media under Higher Up Wellness and tune into his podcast, The Higher Up Podcast, available on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

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[David]

All right. It's not often that you get to have somebody come on your show that literally is exploding in an industry in a way that might not be the most conventional approach. And this is what I one of my favorite comments from watching Mike's stuff on on, on TikTok and Instagram is I hate the fitness industry like that Mike. When, when I find that in so many your videos, dude, I'm like this is the guy I'm going to listen to. This is the guy that I want to understand. And so you know, getting the fact that you, you took time out of your insane schedule, you're telling us what you had going on to come on our show and, and chat with us not only about the fitness industry but my, the most important thing for me, and I hope we really dig into this is, is inspiring young men to get off their asses and change their lives for sure. So thank you so much for coming on, brother.

[Mike]

Now it's, it's truly an honor. I was stoked that Buck connected us and started doing some research on you and your background. Appreciate everything you've done in your past and your history and I'm, I'm excited to hopefully create as much value as I can and if just one person takes just one thing from this conversation, least on my end, it'll all be worth it.

[David]

Well, I'll tell you what, just before we even started, Jordy, who's a fitness, I mean he's still grinding hard at his age and we talked automatically about, you know, loading up on your dose on creatine. So I think that's one of the benchmark topics right now, that one of the things that's infused into everybody's daily routine. So let's, let's just start with something viable like that. Why? What talk about the new science that popped and what are your thoughts on it?

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. I am often anti supplement as they are meant to supplement an already healthy lifestyle. And I think people try to use them as one of the, as Dr. Lane Norton calls it so beautifully, the big rocks of their health. Because you have big rocks and small rocks. Your big rocks are obviously we know Your sleep, your training, your nutrition and your recovery and anything that recovery looks like for you. Anything else side of that is truly a small rock supplementation, meal timing. But that being said, there are a few key supplements that I think are, dare I say, critical, but definitely pertinent. If you're not looking to just be practical, but you are truly trying to take it to an optimal level, there are things you can do to give you an edge. And creatine is absolutely a staple for me. Not only is it the most well researched performance supplement in history as far as exercise goes, there are thousands of of pieces of peer reviewed literature on it. It's been studied for 50 years and it has shown time and time again that in the gym, if you take creatine on average, unless you're a non responder, you're going to increase your ability for force output. And what that translates to in plain English is if I can move more weight over time because I'm stronger on creatine, I'm probably going to build more muscle over time. And muscle is the organ of longevity. If we have more muscle on our frames, we are less likely to die from any of the great all cause mort risks, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, stroke. And it increases our survivability of everything by massive percentage points if we just have lean tissue on our bodies. But to your point, the new literature that's come out is really interesting. They're starting to look at creatine not just as an exercise performance supplement, but as a cognitive ability and longevity supplement. So there was a study done that basically stated overall after 24 hours of moderate to severe sleep deprivation. And I think the parameter was five hours or less, which I know you know what it feels like to operate.

[David]

Sleep deprived my whole life. I've been sleep deprived all week, damn it.

[Mike]

It's my baseline sometimes too. And I know that's right. With your background and SEAL training and everything that they operate, I'm trying to get you to perform in a depressed state.

[David]

That's right.

[Mike]

And they did a study on creatine that showed a mega dose can actually offset sleep deprivation in what they called activities that strained the prefrontal cortex or the things that require a lot thinking and brain power, if you will. And anecdotally I've noticed that I told you guys I'm a little bit sleep deprived. I was out late last night, probably got five and a half, six hours of sleep. And so I took which the follow up question a listener might have is well, how much is a mega dose I took about four times the standard dose. So 5 to 10 grams is typically what most people take for exercise performance. The formal dosage is 0.1 grams per kilogram of lean mass, so I'm about 90 kilos. So I just take 10 grams a day. I took 20 or 25 before this episode because I want to be sharp and I love it. But for the average person, 5 to 10 grams a day is plenty effective. It's the cheapest supplement you can buy. It also happens to be one of the most effective. So I love that and I'm a huge proponent of that, as well as a daily magnesium supplement and a vitamin D supplement because of the amount of Americans that are deficient in those minerals and vitamins.

[David]

I love that you're. You drill down almost all of the videos that I watch, you drill it down to the regular person, not the person that's doing two hours in the morning, two hours in the afternoon, engaged in trying to do, you know, national level high rock competitions, whatever, whatever, whatever those ultra performance levels. Are you really pushing it towards those young men out there, young women out there that are trying to figure out how to improve that self esteem and self worth. One of the things that. One of the videos that really caught my attention recently that you were posted was your video about nicotine. Right. Because I think creatine is also, you know, I think it's an absolute in anybody who's paying attention whatsoever. But there's also this fad, this craziness of nicotine. I mean, I travel the country, you know, the country every week. I'm out on the road and I'm with these young wholesalers. And like you said, man, some of these guys are going through a whole tin of nicotine a day. What are some of the negative effects that you were talking about from too much nicotine? Because I liked where we were within the cognitive enhancement abilities. And so I'd like to just float around that for a little bit and then we'll go to some. Something else.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think it's important when you're, when you're diving into this. There's a lot of nuance and ambiguity within nicotine, but also in the class of supplements that it falls under, which is nootropics, and I love nootropics. Nootropics, for those who don't know, are brain boosting compounds. They are compounds that have been shown in studies to improve reaction time, mental acuity and overall focus and mental clarity. And there's a ton of them. There's caffeine is a nootropic. It's the most common nootropic, but people don't know that it is a drug. But it is also a nootropic. We have lion's mane mushroom, ginkgo biloba, alpha gpc. There's this whole class of supplements that people play with, and they are fun. I've experimented with all different kinds of nootropic supplements, and I love them. Nicotine, in and of itself isolated as a chemical, is a drug, but it is a nootropic. It has been shown to boost mental acuity and energy. And one thing I want to highlight is in that video, I very clearly wrote in the caption, but did not state my opinion on daily habitual nicotine usage, not the occasional nootropic boost. There are some. Some titans in the space who promote nicotine. Dr. Peter Attia, Andrew Huberman. They've talked about it, and it works. And the downside for me and you talk about empowering young people, young men and young women, is it's the concept and principle of having a vice and really weighing the pros versus the cons. You know, if you want to get dialed in, you got a big conversation or big podcast, you want to do something cognitively demanding, and you throw a Zen in, and that's like once a week for you. Fine. All things in moderation. The. The vehicle also matters. I am not talking about smoking a cigarette before a big meeting. I'm not talking about ripping a heater. I'm not sparking up a Marlboro Light before I go into a podcast. And I'm not throwing in a big old lip, a grizzly long cut. Because tobacco is highly carcinogenic.

[David]

Can I just interject? At my. My height, I was doing about 2 tens of Copenhagen a day and smell and smoking a pack of unfiltered Lucky Strikes. And my final day was July 4, 2003. And, man, as soon as I went away from it, everything started to improve for me. So that's my little sidebar on that, because when it does overwhelm you, it becomes incredibly destructive.

[Mike]

Yeah, well, congratulations on quitting, because it's something a lot of people say they could do any day and never actually do. And I. It's stuff like that, right? The cigarettes and nicotine or the. The dip, they cause cancer. Nicotine isolated doesn't seem to do that. Now, here's just to get really plain, plain and simple on it. The pros and the cons. Yes, it can boost mental acuity. I have Used it to do that. And it works. Sometimes it can cause nausea or cold sweats, or you feel a little lightheaded and dizzy, but ultimately it's the principle of I don't want to go through my day and I don't want people to go through their day feeling like they have to depend on some substance outside of themselves. And that's what people were. It's almost in the comments of that video I just posted, people like, well, I can't enjoy anything. I can't have anything. It's like, well, I mean, have you tried enjoying life sober in your present mind? Revolutionary take, I know, but it's people, People are chasing dopamine and they'll go through any route, modicum or vehicle to get to it. And so I just want to make my stance clear. It seems to have benefits cognitively. It can be fun to use in that state, but you need to be mindful of your vices. And the principle of I don't want a substance to have a power over me. That's the point I was trying to make.

[David]

And that's my favorite aspect of how you frame these arguments. Right? It's, it's, you know, it's a, it's that higher up wellness, right? It's, it's what takes, what goes just beyond the superficial aspects of a particular supplement of a particular exercise of a particular skill set. Right. Whatever that is in terms of health, what are the contextual, maybe obligations is too strong that human beings need to integrate into how they, they, they view performance. Right. You know, I, I think, you know, as you talked about, the, the one I think that just popped in my head was the idea of dopamine. Right. And obviously your success is, is a residual of that particular insatiable appetite for dopamine. Right? And, and you're earning, you know, your, your, your living by, by influencing people at a very large scale. 2 million plus followers across all platforms. Your podcast, you, you had said recently was doing over 100,000 downloads a month, you know, per, per week or per month, I forget what it was per week, I thought it was. And, and you know, you're, you're just getting bigger and bigger. And so the question I have for you as a, as a person who's always evaluating these input impacts is, is the correlation to dopamine in your life, are you cognizant of, of that reaction in your own. What is, what's the best way to say it? In your own state of execution, right? In your own state of delivering, are you also Cognizant. Oh, man, I'm. I'm doing the same thing in what I'm doing right now.

[Mike]

Yeah, I love this question because I always say getting fit is not about suffering, it's about raising your awareness.

[David]

Ah, that's cool.

[Mike]

I think that's across all platforms of life. If you have the awareness to know all I'm chasing in most of my life is dopamine, then I know there are cheap ways to get that dopamine and there are expensive ways to get that dopamine. A cheap way to get that dopamine is to hop on my phone and scroll for an hour or, you know, with. With someone like, like me with my social media, I can open it up and it's 99 plus, 100 plus. And, yeah, certain colors to grab your eyes and just hijack your brain chemistry. I'm aware of that. And I'm not going to sit here and say it doesn't feel good to see the followers exploding and a video go viral. It does feel good because it is engineered to make us feel good. And so I have. I have rules in place, I have principles in place about my screen time. And I don't always follow it. I fall short. I'll catch myself scrolling for an hour and a half, pissing away an afternoon, wondering what the I'm doing. But I know if I'm chasing dopamine and I get to the root, the root, which is what do I want to feel right now? I want to feel good. I'm going to invest in an expensive route to get there. And it's not going to be scrolling or junk food. It's going to be, you know, before the show, I hopped in the ice bath. I did two minutes in the ice bath on my patio out there. Sucks while you're doing it, but I know it elevates dopamine circulation by up to 250%, and that's sustained for hours. I can do a hard training session or go on a long hike or spend time with loved ones, and you get that same neurotransmitter through a different route. And it ultimately feels better. It does feel better. It's just more difficult to get to. So I am aware of it. And sometimes I do fall victim to it. I am not perfect. And when I catch myself, the difference is I catch myself and I pull myself off the phone, I go outside, go for a walk in the sunshine with no headphones, go train, hop in the sauna or the cold plunge, and I get my dopamine from Those more expensive vehicles, if you will.

[David]

See that that's the other aspect that I love about your stuff is, is, you know, my favorite ones are when you talk about your hangover cures. I'm going to, I'm going to make my hangover food in the house. Some, you know, you know, I went out last night, but this is how I'm going to get through it today. And, and you're just, there's an honesty in your approach that's, that's tangible for the app for most people. And so as, as you began this journey, you know, and you're starting, you're thinking about that, that, that elevated approach, right? Because you know, I, you talk to this about people, you know, 55 and above, you know, they look at you like I have to get in an ice bath, I have to take creatine, I have to, you know, and they're like, what the hell? But the younger generation certainly knows it now. I mean they've been on TikTok long enough, they've been on Instagram long enough, most of them through their whole lives. How do they, as you were getting going, how did you know how what was going to emerge? Like how did you, how did you know you were to find your own space, to find your own niche? If you will pardon the interruption, but we have to give credence where credence is due. If you're interested in, interested in spicing up your, your food, what you eat, your eggs, your steak, whatever it might be, then please consider Firecracker Farms, a family owned business run by my good friend Alex, producing pepper infused salt out of a really cool salt shaker. I'll tell you what, ever since I've gotten this product, it has completely enhanced all of my dining, dining needs. So please visit Firecracker farm. Type in RUT15, that's Romeo Uniform Tango 1 5. For your discount Firecracker Farms.

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[Walton Goggins]

So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills. But listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor and I like the sound of starting my own business, Walton Goggins goggle glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time, you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox, all for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Amalfi coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Mike]

Honestly, David, I think I've thought a lot about this because there was a time when this was really. I mean, it's still growing fast, but it, it started to grow really quickly. I was very fortunate to not have to be the creator that grinded for 6 months to get his first 10k. My third video ever did a million and a half views. And that, that's so awesome, got me to 10, 000 followers overnight. And it was from there it continued to just steadily blow up. And I've dived into this a lot. And people were asking me, how do I grow my social media? What are the strategies? What are the tips? And the truth was I didn't know. I didn't know what was going on. And I think a huge component of this is that God has blessed me with the opportunity to step into what I think my God ordained purpose might be, which is to help people. I don't know exactly with what yet, I don't know exactly how, but I don't have a fear to start. So I'm able to figure it out through just stepping on one stone at a time. And the stones are the videos I'll make. I'll make videos about one thing. It doesn't do well or I'm not fired up about it. Okay, well, let's pivot a little bit. So I think a lot of it is God's grace. I truly do, because some of the, the metrics and the stats and the timelines aren't conventional in terms of I didn't really have to wait. So ultimately it came down to God blessing me and looking back on my life, making me so hyper fixated on taking care of myself and the thousands of hours of podcasts I listened to and research. I wondered why I was so obsessed with it. And it got me to this process point right here. It all built to this. And so, dare I say, 100% of it is God's grace and his blessing on my life and what he wants me to do. But it also comes down to the fact that I now know, looking at it from a more analytical perspective, what I was unconsciously doing and now am consciously doing is just practicing radical authenticity. That was, that was the boiling point for me, was I said, I hate the fitness industry, because I do. I think a lot of people are putting on a facade. They're wearing a mask which ultimately has no longevity. You can't do that forever because it's exhausting to be an actor.

[David]

That's right.

[Mike]

And I want people to know. What I once thought was that getting an even, pretty elite shape compared to the average person is actually not in what these crazy fitness influencers are doing every day with their biohacking routines. I enjoy doing those things, but you don't have to. If you just walked outside twice a day for half an hour or walked after every meal, got off your phone an hour earlier and ate 80 to 90% food that grew in the ground, grew on a tree, or had a mom and dad close to source of the earth, your life would be, every part of your life would be dramatically different. And a lot of people lose sight of those big rocks in fitness because of creators talking about ice baths and supplements and meal timing and protein frequency and all this, that just, frankly, if you're not trying to win the Olympia or be a CrossFit Games world champion, it doesn't fucking matter. It just doesn't. And if you doesn't, it doesn't. And if you can just embody the 1% rule every single day of, like, just doing this much to get better, that will compound, and it will work, like, compound interest over the course of months or years. But it's very hard for the average person to conceptualize on marginal return over years.

[David]

I, I, I feel the same way about it. I mean, I, from the, the first time I got into doing this type of thing back in 06, it was like every, the idea was like, all right, do I have to mimic what a Navy SEAL does to be an elite performer? And I was like, God, I hope you don't. I was like, if you want to turn into, you know, a human being that only thinks about the destruction of other life forces, and you're somewhat sociopathic in nature and you have a really bad drinking problem then. And, yeah, let's go for it. You know, here's the hose and here's the ice, and, you know, I'm going to beat the snot out of you for, for eight months straight. And, and it was like, man, like, it was confusing to me that, that somehow that had, that's what emerged and then got, you know, post the bin Laden raid, it turned into an epidemic of, of what? Of, of contorting the underlying components of what it's all about, right? Which is, you know, young men deciding, hey, I want to do something that's bigger than myself, and I'm willing to expose myself to the thousands, if not tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of little things I got day to get there. And, and, and I, I think your approach of breaking it down in, in that level without it being correlated to some personal record, man, is, Is really unique. And then the sarcasm, I'm always a sucker for sarcasm. I mean, I just, if I hear sarcasm person online, I'm like. And I'd like, pay attention, dude. So that when Buck sent me the stuff, I was like, oh, I love this guy already. So tell me, you know, again, you, you. It happened really quickly. Now you're settling in, obviously. I mean, and what I love is it's, it's not just fitness. It's not just health. It's not just nutrition and sleep and metrics, man. I'm listening to you talk about sales calls. I'm listening to you talk about public speaking. I'm listening to. Talk to you talking about how much you hate Celtic sea salt, right? You know, is it. Are you realizing now that the ideas are why people are there, not just the fitness? I mean, that's, and that's a hard place, right? When people realize, man, the, the spectrum of what people like. Because. And again, I'm, I'm going all over the place. I apologize. But so I do, when I ask questions, when I started to, like, get out there a little bit more, and it wasn't only about, all right, how do I perform under pressure, under, under fire, that was always the question, right? How do I execute when the world is caving in around me? But then it was like, well, hey, man, I'm really struggling as a dad, or I'm really struggling. And man, for years I was just like, I'm not, I'm not qualified to answer that. I. I don't know. You know, how are you processing that because it is happening so fast for you?

[Mike]

I, I really think that the most valuable piece of advice I ever received through. I think it was a TikTok video, was you are the niche, it's not the fitness content. And this was just, this was a creator talking to other creators. And I again feel that God's grace on my life has allowed me to embody these things that I think are, are simple to implement. But people continue to ask me, how do I get out of my own way? And I say, well the answer is in the question, you get out of your own way. How do I not care about what people think? You stop caring. And I think because God pushed me onto this route of this path of helping people in some way. I'm looking back on all my experiences of being in a sales program in College, to B2B corporate sales, to years of sales training and it's all playing into what I'm doing now in my content. And I'm just not afraid to talk about the things that I love. And the things that I love are sales, they are fitness, they are public speaking, communication, and how the baseline, the root and foundation of physical fitness is the launching pad for all of it. That's how higher up wellness was born. I was in a business school learning I loved business, was really good at the coursework and understood it and it fired me up to learn what made businesses and business owners tick. But I also loved how I showed up when I was sleeping, eating and training well, I felt like I could answer questions more quickly and into the end of the office and corporate world. Sales calls went better. When I was dialed in on my food and my training and my sleep opportunities started to arise. People treated me differently. You know, I worked at a 500 person family owned business where I was the youngest guy on the floor by like 25 years.

[David]

Wow.

[Mike]

And so in a world where ageism is very real in the corporate world, what do you know? You're just a greenhorn. You just got here.

[David]

Drives me nuts.

[Mike]

It's the worst. You know, it's having that physique and that level of fitness is, is something that triggers the reptilian brain and people of like, you know something I don't or you're doing something I'm not. And that gave me a, a sense of, I guess authority to these, to these other people that ended up opening their world up to me and teaching me a bunch and giving me great opportunities I probably didn't deserve as a 26 year old. And so I think once all of those skills came into the content and I just have one message which is what the page started on sharing easily implementable ways to improve your life. And I never confined it to just the fitness. And so I'm going to continue to talk about things that I love, that I am convicted on because I know it's like my dad said when we started and like I said the beginning of this, this show, if just one person get something from what I have to say, whether it's sales, fitness, public speaking, communication, my talk about my hangover remedies because I do still go out and drink with my Buddies, I'm a 27 year old guy in a big city, then it's all worth it. And that's the message I want to spread. I think everybody has a gift that maybe the vehicle they can spread that gift on is content. And I'm seeing it now in real time through a challenge I accidentally launched on TikTok that is changing people's lives and it's really cool to see.

[David]

What was the challenge?

[Mike]

I made a video about communication skills being a huge launch pad to change your life. That a lot of people have these great skills, these great ideas, but frankly they suck at talking. And communication is a skill and we can train it and we can sharpen it just like our bodies in the gym. But you have to practice. And in the video I just say one of the things you could do is set your camera up just like I'm doing right now on this TikTok because I was in speaking in my front camera on the phone and record yourself speaking for 60 seconds. And I didn't tell people to go post it. I said create a burner account if you want. And all of a sudden the video blew up and I woke up one day to 600 mentions and it was Higher Up Wellness public speaking challenge.

[David]

That's awesome.

[Mike]

It's amazing. And it's, it was an, it was an accident again. I think God placed his hand on that. I think it was anointed. And it's probably over 5,000 people now have created TikTok accounts and are speaking every day for 30 days. Some are transcending to 100. There's one guy that stands out and he was sort of the second catalyst. His name's Brandon, young guy, early 20s and made a burner account with 0 followers and put the camera up and said, hi, my name is Brandon. Public speaking makes me very nervous. But I was inspired by Michael Higher Up Wellness to do this challenge for 30 days. His first video ever went viral. It's got four and a half million views. He's got 40,000 followers. And now he's documenting his life and it's, that's what it's all about. You could be one video away from changing your life because you have a gift that somebody needs to hear. And that's, that's where I think is what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm going to be working toward every day really lies is in just giving people the power back and tell them that their life is in their own hands if they take accountability for it.

[David]

All right, for me that, that's like a dream come true because that was the same thing that inspired me to do it. My first video back in 2006 on YouTube. Right? Me with my, my just bushy old, you know, Afghan beard and you know, my tats and a T shirt down by the beach and just like, all right, here are the eight missions that I believe forge your self confidence. And now that things just gone around the world a couple of times and you know, there are detractors, there are people out there who are, there's a, I think an advocacy growing towards being anti content creator, anti wasting your time on social media, anti this, anti that. And well, if everybody's creating content, then what substance do we have that's actually engaging and creating the future world that we need to live in? So what's your, what's your response to that?

[Mike]

I can't get into the market, I can't be a content creator. It's too saturated. I hear it all the time. And the first thing I could say is, well, look at me. I didn't start till 2023 and here we are 2 million followers later. So is it saturated? Maybe, but it's saturated with bullshit and it's saturated with low quality ideas and content. But ultimately the best argument for that is nobody is you. So it is not saturated. It goes back to you are the niche, no one can be you and so long as you don't try to be like other creators, which a lot of people are. And it's why their content doesn't work. In my opinion. You are you and that is your superpower. That's the, there is no, there is no better argument than that. And I don't think there's a counter argument for it is our authenticity, our vulnerability, which is something I'm huge on, is I've shared every facet of my life to millions of people and every time I do, the feedback I get is overwhelmingly positive. So the formula of authenticity plus vulnerability plus consistency always equals success, in my opinion.

[David]

That's that's phenomenal. All right, so one of the, I love listening to you tell your origin story too about being in college, 45 up, you know, I mean when I weighed in at, in freshman lacrosse, I think I was £159. A year later I was 205. Right. And that was not great, you know, great development. That was, you know, dirty bull right there. That, that was bush pounders in the kiddie pool with Paul McKelvey, right? Over the summer, right? I love you, Paul. And, and, and so there, there are young men right now that are finding you. I know some have found me over the past, but they're more so finding you right now. What's the key initiator for them? Right? Is it the health part first? Is it pushing and pulling and feeling better? Is it the motivate, you know, drilling down on the motivational idea. What is their potential? How do I go after it? Or is it just simply the recognition that of that inch by inch process? Like how do you. How like, because I know you get bombarded with this. I'm, I'm a 23 year old kid. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to start. What should I do?

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[Walton Goggins]

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[Mike]

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[Walton Goggins]

So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills. But listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the amalfi Coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Mike]

Yeah, probably the most commonly asked question I get from young men and young women is, I'm that age. I'm 19, 20, 21, 23. How do I find my purpose in life? Which. What a big question. I mean, no wonder you're biggest agony and anxiety. You're trying to figure out life's greatest question and you haven't even voted in your first fucking election yet. I'd be overwhelmed too. I think the, a lot of it is, is the, the tension you create when you feel like you have to have it all figured out is manufacturing suffering within your own mind. And I had the, the opportunity to interview a guy named Peter Crone on my podcast and talk about an anointed conversation. That podcast got 150,000 plays practically overnight, which outperforms any of my episodes of all time. And he has a theory that all of our suffering is manufactured. None of it's real. It's all created based on the narratives we tell ourselves. And one thing I really resonated with was that the, the, the fact that you think something is hard and should be easy creates suffering rather than sitting in the tension of this is hard. And that's okay. What is it trying to teach me? So I wanted to quickly speak to that, that a lot of young people are creating suffering because of the people they see on social media. You know, the young guy with the supercar and the Rolex making a hundred grand a month, probably lying about it and feeling like they have to get there. But to really answer your question, I do believe, and I'm convicted on the fact that I think it always starts with the physical body. If you can't clean the gunk and the crap out of your mind with that brain fog everybody talks about that low energy. If you don't have clarity, you don't have vision, and you can't find your purpose without vision, you become myopic. And that's something cool I'm seeing in my coaching community, I've got clients that have been with me for four months now. And it started because they wanted to lose £50. And now we had three people on my group call yesterday say, like, I feel, I feel called to sign up for marathons. I feel called to open my Bible. I feel called. I've never been religious, but I'm curious about God. And I think, one, incredibly powerful. But two, I think the launching pad is if you're not where you want to be in life and your physical health is not a priority, well, it's no wonder you're not where you want to be in life. Because getting clear in the form of proper nutrition, proper sleep, proper hydration, cleaning that gunk out of the physical body creates room for ascension in other facets of your life. So any guy or gal listening out there, that's young, if you are not prioritizing exercise, daily movement, whatever you enjoy, whatever you like, there is no best compliance is the science. Do what you like and we'll stick to figure that out first. And I really do think as you continue to pursue, because fitness is such a good microcosm for delayed gratification, you'll start to really understand what you were put here to do. But it has to start with the physical body.

[David]

I couldn't, I couldn't concur more with that. We are physical beings. We are rooted in the physicality of how we perceive all things, right. From a, from a neurological perspective, from the way we perceive through our vision, through. We interpret that information itself within that prefrontal cortex, right, which then ultimately generates what that metacognition which creates our own potential. Right? So all of those factors are at the highest level. All right, you have mentioned several times.

[Mike]

Being.

[David]

In the presence of, of, of that holy spirit and being in the presence of, of what you would describe as a divine process, has that always played a role in your life? Was that a part of the initiation to change? And if not, how did it present itself in. How do you, what is it? How do you, what do you, how do you nurture it? How do you. I don't, I don't want to sound cheesy, like how do you work out your faith now? Right, but, but that's what I'm asking. Like, how does that, how does that grow? And, and what are the supplements and the exercises and all that that facilitate that?

[Mike]

It was not always in the picture. I was always the lukewarm Christian of, there's, there's a God, there's no way, there's not a higher power. But what is it? How did it get you? What does it like? I was, you know, I would a classic. I'm spiritual, not religious. It's really just a way of saying I'm lukewarm. But it, it took, it took hitting what in my adult life was a rock bottom for me, which was ultimately losing my dad, or not losing my dad, but him passing away. And that the man was my best friend, biggest role model, and he taught me a lot of what I know. And I, I make a joke all the time. I was like, dad, if you, if you grew up in my age, you'd have 2 million followers. Not a million. You do better than I ever could.

[David]

That's cool.

[Mike]

He was special. And I moved home.

[David]

What's his name?

[Mike]

His name's Mike. Michael Smoke also.

[David]

That's cool.

[Mike]

Yeah, he's Michael Lee. I'm Michael Thomas. I'm not a junior, technically. He was my biggest role model. And he's a very special, special man who everyone looked to and looked forward to and leaned on in hard times. You know, he was the one giving eulogies for the grandparents funeral. He was the first guy that ever ignited the fire for public speaking in me because he was so proficient at it. And he said to me, when I was a little boy, he came in for career day and gave a presentation on his job, which at the time was selling sports equipment, goal posts, foul netting, track surface, turf. And that's not going to interest a bunch of third graders, but I remember him bringing in props and making jokes and looking around and seeing all these little boys and girls interested in what this old man had to say about goal posts. And he said to me, he was like, remember, buddy, there's no better feeling than getting up in front of a room full of people and knowing there's a question they can't ask you, you don't have the answer to. It's empowering. And I thought, wow, that is pretty cool. And I moved home for a little while in a chapter of my life where I was resetting. I was living on my own, move back home and come home to it. I hadn't seen him in maybe a month and he looked sick. And I was like, what? You look like you're losing weight. What's going on? He's like, bubby, I don't know. I don't feel good. I'm. I'm tired, I can't eat. And being the health and wellness person I am, I immediately was like, are we seeing doctors? Are we setting appointments? And I started doing that for him. Holistic doctors, real doctors, GI doctors, Western eastern medicine. And they could never figure out what quite was wrong with him. And I'll spare you the details, it was cirrhosis, then it was lymphoma, massive blood clotting. But ultimately what happened was my dad began to lose all of his muscle mass, all of his autonomy. He lost about 60 pounds in five months. He was already 62180, lean guy. And he got to the point where he was practically skin and bones and had all the symptoms of liver failure. But he was never a drinker. And so he was. They were confused, but that was brutal to watch my hero lose all sense of autonomy and freedom. And that's where I really turned to God, because I didn't have anywhere else to go. I couldn't lean on myself, I couldn't lean on my family, I couldn't lean on him. You know, he was the guy, he was the guy I shared my wins with. That was my support system and my confidant. And you know, when your earthly father begins to fail, you turn to your heavenly father. And that's where I started to experience supernatural peace. That thing that they say you can't explain. But it was after a lot of traumatic days of becoming my dad's full time hospice nurse. You know, I try not to get emotional talking about it, but I took him to. Excuse me, I took him to an appointment and before we were getting ready, I was putting his shoes on because he couldn't bend over to do it anymore. And he reached around and patted my back and he said, I'm just looking for your wings, you know, that I was his angel. And yeah, God put me there to be with him in his last six months. And I'm so thankful for that and put me in a place with a lot of God fearing men because he knew I need the support system and men that really weren't a part of my life until about four months before really hit the fan for me. And I'll always be thankful to God for giving me that time with him. But you know, they. You think about God's purpose for your life and what his purpose for my life was. And to watch my dad lose his autonomy as a result of what was probably not living a life centered around health and wellness. You know, he was never overweight, but he grew up in the 50s. He smoked from the time he was a kid until the day he almost. The day he died, until he couldn't go outside to smoke. He ate whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and didn't. He stopped exercising in his 40s. He was a D1 2 sport athlete at Georgia. And he would always say, bubby, I hit my exercise quota a long time ago.

[David]

I think I've heard myself say that one to my daughters recently.

[Mike]

I'm all, I'm all weight lifted out. That's what he would say.

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

But the, the beauty of, of watching my dad go through that and being there for him was it's made Me so much more convicted on teaching people that everybody has a lot of problems until they have a health problem and then they have one problem because nothing else matters. When your body fails you and you don't have a spare one hanging up in the closet, you just don't. And I'm thankful that God granted me the ability to suffer through that because it gave me a true power and conviction to teach people how important this is and not only how important it is, but how attainable health and vitality is. It is not unattainable. It is in the four or five key choices you are or are not making every day. And if you don't make them, they will materialize in the form of a lifestyle related disease on average. Not always. You can play the odds. You can gamble like my dad did, but you don't always win that, you don't always win that, that bet. And so I'm fortunate. And it's, you know, it reminds me of one of my favorite verses of all time that really got me through that, which was James chapter one, verse two through four. Count it all joy brethren, when you face trials of many kinds because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. And let perseverance run its course so that you may be full, complete and mature, not lacking anything. And that process made me mature, it made me complete and is just a piece of my journey to prevent me from lacking something in the future. So ultimately I'm not thankful my dad passed. I miss him every day. But I'm thankful for what that experience taught me and how it's going to allow me to pour into other people.

[David]

Well, I'll tell you what man. I was trying to figure out what it was that sucks me in every time you start ranting on, on in front of that screen and, and now I know. Thank you for sharing that with everybody. I really appreciate that. That's beyond anything I could have imagined you would be willing to share with me, man. And that's proof that you are who you say you are and you do believe what you believe. So where can people come and follow and participate and, and, and get on this journey with you?

[Mike]

I appreciate that. I, I do. Thank you for saying that. And I, it goes back to vulnerability. I want everybody to know that their vulnerability and their authenticity is their superpower. And don't, don't be scared to show the world who you are because if anybody judges you or thinks differently of you, it doesn't matter. It's like Goggins says so beautifully you'll never be on by anybody doing better than you. And I want people to remember that and to live it. And if they're interested, yeah, if they're interested in coming along and learning more. My username across all platforms is the same. My name is Michael Smoke, but my username is Higher Up Wellness on everything. I have a podcast called the Higher Up Podcast. It's available on Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcasts. And if they're interested in working with me, they can simply DM me the word fit on Instagram and it triggers in my inbox to start a conversation with you and we can learn more and figure out if we're potentially a fit to work together. And if we're not, no worries. I hope that they get some value from the content alone and I appreciate you giving me the time and the space to come on and, and be a part of your platform. It's truly an honor and it was, it was a great time, man. I had a blast.

[David]

Awesome. God bless you.

[Mike]

Thank you, brother. You as well.

[LifeLock]

You're great at protecting your own personal information. You probably even use things like two factor authentication, strong passwords and a vpn. But as much as you try to be in control of how your information is protected, there are lots of places that also have it and they might not be as careful as you are. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second for identity threats. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning LifeLock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan. If you lose money due to identity theft, you might not be able to control how others handle your personal information, but you can help protect it with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code IHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply.

[Walton Goggins]

So you want to start a business? You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Amalfi coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply it's Wednesday night.

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