Hour 1 - A Big Beautiful Bill?

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show – Episode Summary Episode: Hour 1 - A Big Beautiful Bill
Release Date: May 8, 2025
Host: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Publisher: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Top Headlines and Breaking News

The episode kicks off with Clay Travis updating listeners on the latest developments across various fronts:

• Columbia University Protest: Clay reports a significant protest where the university library was taken over, leading to numerous arrests. He hints at potential consequences for the "crazy, loony Ben College protesters."

  Clay Travis (00:05): "Columbia University, major protest as the library was taken over last night. Lots of people arrested."

• Trump's Trade Deal with England: President Trump announces a major trade agreement with the United Kingdom, resulting in a surge in stock markets. Clay emphasizes that the S&P 500 has rebounded, erasing April's stock price collapse.

  Clay Travis (02:00): "Stocks are at the exact same valuation they were right before Trump was elected president."

2. Stock Market Analysis and Economic Insights

Clay and Buck delve into the implications of Trump's trade deal on the stock market, highlighting the market's resilience and growth:

• Market Recovery: The S&P 500 is up by 1.3% on the morning of the episode, effectively nullifying the previous month's losses. Clay encourages listeners to hold onto their investments, drawing parallels to Warren Buffett's investment philosophy.

  Clay Travis (02:15): "If you bought near the low, you are approaching a 20% increase in your value."

• Critique of Media Narratives: The hosts criticize major networks like CNN and MSNBC for downplaying the stock market's performance, urging listeners not to let media narratives influence their investment decisions.

  Clay Travis (02:45): "Don't let MSNBC and CNN drive you bonkers."

3. Trump’s White House Strategies and Media Relations

The discussion shifts to President Trump's ongoing activities and media strategies:

• Interest Rate Cuts: Trump mentions efforts to persuade the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates, which he believes would accelerate economic growth.

  Buck Sexton (17:32): "Jerome Powell is a fool who doesn't have a clue."

• Media Attacks on Trump: Both hosts express skepticism about the media's sustained attacks on Trump, suggesting that such criticisms are losing traction.

  Buck Sexton (03:30): "Their ability to force feed a narrative is not what it used to be by a long shot."

4. Speculation on the New Pope

A lighter segment covers the anticipation surrounding the election of a new Pope:

• White Smoke Announcement: Clay shares that white smoke has been released from the Vatican, indicating a new Pope has been elected, though the name remains undisclosed.

  Clay Travis (12:22): "The white smoke is out over the Vatican City and we are going to end up with a new pope."

• Betting Markets Predictions: There's playful speculation about the new Pope's identity, with mentions of “Pope Pietro Perlin” being a favorite in gambling markets.

  Clay Travis (12:22): "The gambling markets tell us that Pietro Perlin is going to be the next pope."

5. Guest Preview and Upcoming Segments

Clay provides a sneak peek into the episode's upcoming guest lineup:

• Senator Ron Johnson: Discussing the progress of the "Big Beautiful Bill."

• Withdrawn U.S. Attorney Ed Martin: Providing insights into recent political maneuvers.

• Former Navy SEAL Dave Rutherford: Sharing expertise on national security and other topics.

  Buck Sexton (08:43): "We've got Senator Ron Johnson, the would-be now withdrawn U.S. attorney. And then our friend, former Navy SEAL Dave Rutherford."

6. In-Depth Interview with Senator Ron Johnson

The core of the episode features a comprehensive interview with Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, focusing on the federal budget and the proposed "Big Beautiful Bill."

a. Federal Spending and Debt Concerns

Senator Johnson provides a critical analysis of the current federal spending trajectory:

• Inflated Spending Figures: Highlighting a drastic increase from $4.4 trillion in 2019 to over $7 trillion in the current year, projecting a $89.3 trillion expenditure over the next decade.

  Senator Ron Johnson (19:55): "We have to return to a reasonable pre-pandemic level. We're currently spending a little over 7 trillion compared to 4.4 trillion in 2019."

• Debt Accumulation: The debt is expected to grow by nearly $22 trillion, exacerbating national financial instability.

b. Critique of Current Spending Reduction Efforts

Johnson criticizes the proposed spending cuts in the House and advocates for more substantial and effective reductions:

• Insufficient Cuts: The House aims for a $1.5 trillion reduction, which Johnson deems insignificant compared to the total projected spending.

  Senator Ron Johnson (19:55): "A 1.68% reduction, 1.5 trillion versus 89.3 trillion. That's pathetic."

• Elon Musk’s Role: Praising Elon Musk's efforts to identify waste, fraud, and abuse, Johnson urges for these findings to be codified into actual spending cuts.

  Senator Ron Johnson (23:50): "Elon Musk has shown us how to do it by exposing all this waste, fraud, and abuse."

c. Proposed Solutions and Call to Action

Johnson outlines steps to achieve meaningful budget reforms:

• Multi-Step Approach: Advocating for a phased reduction in spending, starting with specific areas like Medicaid reform to save over a trillion dollars without affecting benefits.

  Senator Ron Johnson (25:36): "We absolutely need to reform Medicaid. You can squeeze probably a trillion dollars out of Medicaid without touching benefits."

• Extending Current Tax Laws: Suggesting the extension of existing tax laws to avoid automatic tax increases and maintain economic stability.

  Senator Ron Johnson (27:37): "I just want to extend current tax law. It doesn't have to automatically expire."

• Call to Action: Encouraging listeners to actively reach out to their congressional representatives to emphasize the urgency of reducing federal spending.

  Senator Ron Johnson (31:26): "Call your House members, call your senators, call the White House, tell them we again, spending is a problem."

7. Final Remarks and Upcoming Content

In the concluding segments, Clay and Buck wrap up their discussions and tease upcoming content:

• Pop Culture and Personal Anecdotes: The hosts engage in light-hearted banter about topics like the anticipated Pope’s identity and Biden’s controversial appearance on "The View."

  Buck Sexton (35:47): "Do you trust that the Goonies remake will pay homage to the original and be solid?"

• Exclusive Previews: Mention of guests for the second and third hours, including plans to discuss deportation numbers and an upcoming interview with former Navy SEAL Dave Rutherford.

• Audience Engagement: Encouraging listeners to subscribe to their YouTube channel to "unk" Clay and benefit from exclusive content.

  Clay Travis (15:09): "At least that's what my kids tell me."

8. Skipped Advertisements and Non-Content Sections

Throughout the episode, several advertisements were presented, which have been omitted from this summary to maintain focus on the core content. These included promotions for Preborn's pro-life mission, gutter protection systems, Legacy Box's digitization services, and Crockett Coffee's offerings.

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Notable Quotes:

• Clay Travis (02:45): "Don't let MSNBC and CNN drive you bonkers."
• Senator Ron Johnson (19:55): "We have to return to a reasonable pre-pandemic level."
• Senator Ron Johnson (23:50): "Elon Musk has shown us how to do it by exposing all this waste, fraud, and abuse."
• Senator Ron Johnson (25:36): "We absolutely need to reform Medicaid."
• Senator Ron Johnson (31:26): "Call your House members, call your senators, call the White House, tell them we again, spending is a problem."

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This episode of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show provides an insightful analysis of current political and economic issues, featuring expert opinions from Senator Ron Johnson on federal budget reforms. Clay and Buck blend serious discussions with lighter segments, ensuring a comprehensive and engaging listening experience.

Transcript

[Buck Sexton]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[Clay Travis]

Welcome in. It is the Thursday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. A lot of different breaking news, many different fronts. We're going to try to keep you updated on everything. Let me hit you right off the top. Columbia University, major protest as the library was taken over last night. Lots of people arrested. It seems like there might finally be some consequences for these crazy, loony Ben College protesters. We will discuss that story with you. Just now, I believe he is still speaking in the White House. Trump announcing a major trade deal with England that has sent stocks soaring yet again. You've noticed probably that as the stock market has been increasing, suddenly there is no reference to the stock market. I believe I'm correct in this on CNN and on MSNBC. Stock market S&P 500 up 1.3% now this morning. And to kind of put that in context, all of the collapse in stock prices that happened in April has been eradicated. If you bought near the low, you are approaching a 20% increase in your value. If you just held on like we told all of you to do, channeling Warren Buffett, don't overreact. Don't let MSNBC and CNN drive you bonkers. You are essentially, as I am speaking to you right now, stocks are at the exact same valuation they were right before Trump was elected president, exact same price as they were on November 4th. So we have effectively basically got stocks right where they were when Trump was elected. All of that matters because Trump is right now speaking. He said, hey, you know what? If we could actually get the Fed to cut interest rates, we would have even faster growth coming forward. But I think the attack on Trump for stock prices is going to go the way of the attack on Trump for Kilmar Abreu Garcia. And that is it's going to vanish and they're going to pretend they never said it ever in the past, which is a good sign.

[Buck Sexton]

Yes. You know, Kilmar, Abrego, Garcia, they're running out of room on that one. He's not a human trafficker. He's a homo sapien entrepreneur, even.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, it's very funny. Even Buck, they've stopped referring to him as a Maryland dad and they're now calling him an El Salvador. And even the legacy media is like, well, maybe this guy wasn't just a Maryland dad. He was in fact a human trafficker, according to multiple reports.

[Buck Sexton]

Now, they used to have the ability and I mean, they had it really. They had it until this last election. At some level, I think it's truly gone now, Clay, where they could force feed a narrative and make Trump and his team play defense. No matter how crazy, no matter how wrong, how big the lie, they just can't really do that anymore. The opposition that the counterpunch from Trump, from this White House, from the media, from this show, from, you know, other big shows out there that are doing great work, the counterpunch is too much for them now. So again, it's not just they have no messaging as a party. Their account, their ability to force feed messaging is not what it used to be by a long shot.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, Biden on the View. We'll have some cuts for that. We're going to play cuts for Trump in the White House talking about the new deal with Great Britain. But I am told there is also white smoke, meaning we now have a new pope. We do not yet. I'm scrolling through social media to try to catch up with the absolute latest. We do not yet have a name. Is that correct, team? The name has not leaked of the new Pope, but the white smoke is now out over the Vatican City and we are going to end up with a new pope. I would imagine in short order we will have a name of the new Pope and we will see whether or not we have any, any, any knowledge to share with you of the new popes. Okay. A bunch of different things out there. Let's start with this. I mentioned the stock market is surging and the, the news stories out there as everyone is preparing for the new Pope. But we'll get you that. In the meantime, Trump with the prime Minister of Great Britain. They are breaking down everything having to do with this new deal. And I want to start with cut one. Trump announcing a brand new trade deal between America and the UK this is.

[Donald Trump]

A very special day because it's Victory day. World War II, May 8th. And just by happenstance, we have the prime Minister on the phone. And we were great allies in that. And it's very unusual that the trade deal comes due and we signed it up on the same day that we had a great victory, the greatest victory of them all. So we are talking more and more about Victory Day because we were a big part of it and so was the UK and it's just, I guess, I don't know what you call it. It's just incredible that that day is the same day that we signed a tremendous trade deal for both countries.

[Clay Travis]

Okay. That we should mention as well. 80th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day one of the greatest days in the history of Western civilization, frankly. Thankfully. Cut four. Is the British ambassador to the US Praising Trump for getting this new trade deal done. Listen to that.

[Donald Trump]

You've done what you said you would do. You said to the prime minister when he came and we visited in the Oval that you would do a good trade deal with the United Kingdom, that you would do it at pace and that we would be first. And you have delivered that. You've been true to your words. So thank you very much indeed for that.

[Clay Travis]

So that is the resolution we're going to have. We told you this was going to happen. You can criticize Trump, but did anybody really think that he was not going to allow the stock market to flourish? I mean, this is. Of all the criticisms of Trump, maybe the most ludicrous out there, I would suspect. Buck. And we have told people this would be likely happening. We will see in short order rapid rollouts of a variety of different major new trade agreements that will ultimately lead to the US And China being on an island, squaring each other off as it pertains to the trade related battles. And I think that's going to be decided. I predicted by August. So the markets are increasingly becoming, it seems to me, cognizant of that fact. And we hope you held onto your stocks and if you bought any bet down at the, down in the gully, you are, you're walking really strong today.

[Buck Sexton]

Well, do we have to start getting you to do at least a segment of the show with like French cuffs and suspenders and maybe a monogrammed dress shirt on? You know, like old school Wall street guys, Gordon Gekko a la Wall street, which is a movie that holds up, by the way. Fantastic. Yes. Clay, you gave everyone very good advice. The advice is bet on America and Trump knows what he's doing. If we were to summarize this right, I think that's fair. Bet on America and Trump knows what he's doing. And I think that those simple, straightforward principles, almost Warren Buffett, like in their truism and their simplicity, have, have shown that everyone need, there's no need for panic. Anything like that was absurd. But it also shows you that a lot of the people who are supposed to be making a living telling you what's going on in the markets have no idea what the heck they're talking about.

[Clay Travis]

Yes.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, my gosh. You know all the hedge fund money's out. Oh, yeah. Trust me. The hedge funds have to chase returns or else people put their money somewhere else. So they're not just gonna take the money out of the market and sit on the sidelines. Okay? So that all is to the good. And we still don't have the name of the Pope, the new Pope, which is exciting for all of us who are Catholic. I've got to figure out, Clay, how to get my son baptized. Are your kids baptized? I got to figure out how to get my boy baptized.

[Clay Travis]

Well, you get sprinkled, right, in the Catholic faith. I mean, don't you get sprinkled?

[Buck Sexton]

Is that, like, a special thing? You just get baptized? It's like pour water over the head.

[Clay Travis]

No, no. Baptism. No, no, no. Baptism is like old school. Like, you have to be dunking, you know, you don't. Yeah, I got babies.

[Buck Sexton]

You don't dunk babies.

[Clay Travis]

No, you just sprinkled the. But you sprinkled the babies. Oh, yeah, the Baptists back in the day. I got. Yeah, I got fully immersed. Of course it's a baby.

[Buck Sexton]

They don't. They don't, like, throw it in the river and see what happens? Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, no, no. I'm saying. But there is no full immersion in the Catholic faith. Right? Like, you never put on, like, walking, you know, know, waiting boots and. And go in and get fully immersed under the water.

[Buck Sexton]

You're really putting me on. On the. There's so many listening who know more about this than me. When I was in Jesuit school, theology at Regis was a real course that people failed. Like, you had to actually do homework. It wasn't some. It wasn't like an extra recess period. It was basically church history and theology. I mean, and. And doctrine, rather, in theology class. And. Yeah, it's been a little while since the Jesuit.

[Clay Travis]

No, no, look. In the Baptist church, there is a water, like a pool behind the choir. And during the actual ceremony. Now, I'm assuming that some of these churches don't have an actual swimming pool in them, and you go out to a local river or whatever else. But the church that I went to, First Baptist Church, Goodlettsville, Tennessee, still there. You got fully immersed in the actual. In the actual ceremony. I mean, you would be up there the. You get dunked, you go underwater.

[Buck Sexton]

Speaking of full immersion, were you ever in the choir?

[Clay Travis]

No.

[Buck Sexton]

I'm told you got out because of your flute playing, right? Like you got an excuse for flute playing.

[Clay Travis]

I told you this. I was in chorus in high school, and they told me not to sing. So I announced the songs that my high school choral group would sing. So I. I'm tone deaf. I'm not allowed. Other than my flute playing, which is, you know, beautiful. And Majestic and Angel, like I don't really have any musical talents.

[Buck Sexton]

Also, also to tell you guys, as we're sitting here looking at some of the exciting trade deal information, the, the win of a big trade deal with the UK there's more of these coming and it's right. And the thing is, Clay, there's momentum to this because you get one big one done well, ok, everyone knows another big one can happen and the next on the list. And Trump has made this clear all along. You come forward, you want to make a deal now, that's great. You want to be a pain in the butt like China and you want to force our hand and you want to make things tough. It's going to be rougher on you down the line. So the incentive is to get a deal going here, which makes sense for everybody. And I think that that means, look, the market's already showing that people are feeling like, okay, there is a way through this, there is a way forward that actually is better or rather is going to improve things. And that's great. We've also got some phenomenal guests today. We have a stacked show of guests. So we wanted to give you a quick preview of that 1230. So that's coming up here. Well, Eastern time coming up here in about 20 minutes. We've got Senator Ron Johnson is going to be with us. Then second hour, we have the would be now withdrawn U.S. attorney. He was acting U.S. attorney for D.C. ed Martin. Look, we want to, we want to talk to him. You know, we, we want to chat with him about what happened here and why did Thom Tillis stand in the way. Trump has also spoken on that. We can give you the latest update on that. And then our friend, former Navy SEAL Dave Rutherford will be talking to us in the third hour. Got some great things to dive into with him. So we've got a rocking show today, but top of the show, victory for Trump, big trade deal. And I haven't even gotten to the deportation numbers yet, which Tom Homan has shared, which are looking very strong for the first hundred days.

[Clay Travis]

I don't know. Again, I've already been excommunicated from the faith for talking about this. But the gambling markets tell us that Pietro Perlin is going to be the next pope. His odds in the live gambling markets have skyrocketed. To suggest I've not seen anybody officially.

[Buck Sexton]

I wanted pizza bagel because Pope Pizza bagel sounded like that was going to be a lot of fun.

[Clay Travis]

Pizza Ball would have been. It would have sold a lot of t shirts and my wife said she was rooting for him, but Pietro Perlin, who was Yesterday we talked with Raymond Arroyo. Maybe Raymond can call us today from inside of Vatican City because his predictions that it was going to happen pretty quickly appear correct. But he has the Pietro Peril in is now a massive favorite, so we'll see if the betting markets know what they're talking about as the actual Pope. The white smoke is out. A Pope has been elected, but we do not know exactly which one has been announced yet.

[Buck Sexton]

We'll be bringing you more on that in just a matter of moments here. You know, there was a study out not too long ago making the case that 20% of women who undergo chemical abortions suffer serious complications. It can even be fatal. No matter how you feel about abortion, you never want to hear about a woman losing her life. The abortion pill, as it's referred to, is one aspect of this chemical abortion wave. It still comes with a lot of unknowns, which is one reason why these deaths have occurred. This pill continues to bring harm to mothers and yet accounts for over 60% of abortion. Preborn's network of clinics get countless visits daily from women seeking help after taking this pill and regretting their decision. Preborn welcomes these women with open arms and offers them life saving, life changing support. Of course, Preborn's mission is to save the lives of unborn babies by convincing pregnant mothers to choose life over abortion for their unborn child. As abortion continues to rise, Preborn is expanding their life affirming care across our nation to help more hurting women and to save more babies. If you have the means, please help them in this godly mission. Help them achieve their goals. Preborn relies entirely on donations from individuals like you, the pro life community, and not enough to just vote your conscience. You can take action. Your tax deductible donation of any amount to Preborn will help their staff. Saving Unborn babies and helping pregnant moms dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250 say the keyword baby. Sponsored by Preborn Making America great again.

[Clay Travis]

Isn'T just one man, it's many. The Team 47 podcasts Sundays at Noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey Buck, one of my kids called me an unk the other day.

[Buck Sexton]

An Unk?

[Clay Travis]

Yep. Slaying, evidently. For not being hip, being an old dude.

[Buck Sexton]

So how do we un unk you?

[Clay Travis]

Get more people to subscribe to our YouTube channel. At least that's what my kids tell me.

[Buck Sexton]

That's simple enough. Just search the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton show and hit the subscribe button.

[Clay Travis]

Takes less than five seconds to help unk me.

[Buck Sexton]

Do it for Clay, do it for freedom and get great content while you're there. The Clay, Travis and buck Sexton Show YouTube channel. We're talking to Senator Ron Johnson here in just a few minutes. Yes, we shouldn't. Well, no, we're allowed to have favorites among our senators. He's one of our favorites. He's great. Yes, he listens up there in Wisconsin. I was going to say we can't choose amongst our favorite Republicans. Yeah, actually we can because Senator Thom Tillis is not on the list. He's on the naughty list right now. He would be getting a lump of coal in his MAGA stocking for standing the way of Ed Martin, who we also have on the program in the second hour who will be talking to about.

[Clay Travis]

I think it's pretty cowardly to not come on this show if you are a Republican. I mean, we're number one in large parts of his state and he could talk probably to more of his constituents on this radio program than any, any single mechanism of speech right now that he could undertake. And his staff, to my knowledge, Greg, and correct me if I'm wrong, has not even responded to the invitation to come on the program.

[Buck Sexton]

No, we're getting, we're getting Fauci'd. Sorry, I don't have time amidst all my MSNBC and triple masking obligations to make time for your show to. It's only on 570 radio stations. Apologies. Yeah, he's, he's given us the Fauci treatment here. We used to invite Fauci on the show. That would have been fun. But yes, we're going to be talking here to Iran, John, in, in just a few minutes about where we are with the budget and, and, and the whole big beautiful bill because remember, Trump has got all these pieces moving simultaneously and there's been a lot of wins already. But the best Clay is yet to come. No question about it. Trump is, I will say, a little annoyed about what's going on with the Fed. He put this out just a few hours ago on Truth Social. Too late. Jerome Powell is a fool who doesn't have a clue. Other than that, I like him very much. That's the most.

[Clay Travis]

To be fair, Jerome Powell was 1 billion percent wrong on everything related to inflation.

[Buck Sexton]

He knows what Trump is saying. He says oil and energy way down Almost all costs, groceries and eggs down, virtually no inflation tariff, money pouring in. The exact opposite of too late. Enjoy.

[Clay Travis]

I will say this is something people can look forward to. The price of gas is going to be really, really low at your gas stations very soon. And that is one way that people judge cost of goods more than anything else. Because when you stand there with a gas pump in your hand and you watch those dollars roll up, you're going to see gas prices, this is a prediction lower than at any point in the entire Biden era. Just about very, very soon. Now I know it's summer driving season, prices go up a bit, but the numbers are going to be very low.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Ron Johnson, senator from Wisconsin. Lots to dive into with him. Appreciate him as always hopping on the show with us. And let's start right here off the top. Senator, a lot of discussion that the so called big beautiful bill will be done by Memorial Day. What can you tell us about the progress? What do you like, what do you not like about the bill so far?

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Well guys, well I hate to be the skunk in the room. Let me give you some numbers. 2019 we spent $4.4 trillion. This year we'll spend a little over 7 trillion. That's a 58% increase over the next 10 years. CBO estimates we will spend a whopping $89.3 trillion and grow our debt by almost $22 trillion. So what the House is working on right now is, is a spending reduction. It sounds big of $1.5 trillion, but you compare that to 89.3, that's 1.68% reduction, 1.5 trillion versus 89.3 trillion. And by the way, the way normally these spending reductions occur, they occur in the out years when there's the probability that they'll never be actually realized. Now, in more serious times, During World War II, spending increased 578%, okay, 10 times that amount. But within seven years, the start of World War II, we were back down to a lower spending level. As a percentage GDP, it had been, I think 11.7%. Went down to 11.4% because they realized this. So one once in a lifetime occurrence is extraordinary. We had to increase spending for World War II, but then we came back down to a pre war spending level. What happened in the federal government, we went from 4.4 to 6.5 and we've never looked back. I don't know of a family who would. If they had an illness and they had to borrow $50,000 to pay for medical bills, if that family member got well, they would keep borrowing $50,000 and spend at that level. That's exactly what the federal government's doing. So again, we have to return to a reasonable pre pandemic level. I've been in the White House now twice with the Finance Committee, the Budget Committee. It seemed like President Trump was on board with that. Plus not only returned to a reasonable pre pandemic level, which kind of the top figure there is about 6.5 trillion versus the 7 trillion we're spending right now, but also have a process to achieve and maintain it. And by the way, Elon Musk has shown us how to do it line by line, contract by contract. You have to take the time and do the work. So I've always been in favor of a multi step process. Provide the border funding, the defense funding. By the way, in the Senate bill, we would have reduced spending by $850 billion, more than half what the House is trying to achieve right now, just in that first reconciliation bill. Then come back step two, make sure that we take an automatic massive tax increase off the table. Just extend current tax law. We could have already had that done, but now we're in this, you know, then we could be working on the big old complex messy negotiations in terms of getting spending down and also fulfill President Trump's promises and, you know, things like no cash, no tax on. I would say cash tips would be a pretty good thing to do. But again, we're involved in this great big bill. Beauty's in the eye of the beholder right now. There's enough senators, I can tell you, that that's not going to pass if that's all the spending reduction we're going to realize.

[Buck Sexton]

All right, Senator Johnson, appreciate you being with us and that detailed assessment of what is in the big, beautiful bill. How much of the cuts? I mean, I'm trying to remember the numbers offhand here. You said we're at a $7 trillion spending pre pandemic would be 6.5 trillion. So that's a $500 billion, a $500 billion gap or differential that we have to address here. What would be the cuts that would make up that 500 billion? Is a lot of this or any of this driven by the Doge recommendations? And why? Sorry, a lot of questions here, Senator. And why aren't other Republicans going along with this? What's, what's happening here?

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Well, let me tell you what I'm scratching my head about. So, so Elon Musk, by the way, brilliant, Doge. What Trump and Elon did with Doge was brilliant. They've exposed all this waste, fraud and abuse, by the way. They've also exposed how clueless and oblivious we all are in terms of waste, fraud and abuse. So they've shown how to do it. The problem is we're not codifying it. You know, the way you codify the discretionary side of what Doge finds is through rescission packages. Anything they find on the mandatory side that ought to be loaded into reconciliation. I'm not aware of any recommendations of Doge savings through reconciliation, through other mandatory spending. And in terms of resistance, we've been hearing about a drum roll here, underwhelming $9 billion. Now, Elon's been saying they've been uncovering about $4.5 billion a day. They're ahead of pace because he said about a trillion dollars by the end of the fiscal year. So they've been in office 100 days. 4.5 billion. That's $450 billion. And they're talking about a rescission package of an underwhelming $9 billion, which apparently is being held up because there's resistance here in the House and the Senate. I mean, go figure. So, again, unfortunately, we have big spenders in our party. And, you know, listen, I ran in 2010 because we were Mortgage Our Children's Future. We were $14 trillion in debt. Now we're $37 trillion in debt. And again, what we're talking about is adding another $20 trillion to that debt. Even if we pass a big beautiful bill again, and let me add, as I do the math, this one big beautiful bill would actually increase the deficit. It wouldn't decrease it. It would actually increase the deficit.

[Buck Sexton]

But where are the spending cuts? Can I just, you're, you got to remember, for a lot of us, it's.

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Literally, it's literally across the board. Listen, we absolutely need to reform Medicaid. And we've been talking to people you can, you can squeeze probably a trillion dollars out of Medicaid without touching benefits, actually make Medicaid more secure for disabled children by putting work requirements on the able bodied that are being covered through Obamacare. Remember Medicaid? The out of control nature of Medicaid is Obamacare, where states are gaming the system, where they're doing these provider taxes, which is a total financial scam. The states say, hey, give us $200 and then we'll go to the federal government. They give us $180 for that 200 bucks and we'll come back and give you $200 back. What a scam. What a chump. The federal government is. So Medicaid, probably at least a trillion dollars. But again, you go line by line through 2,400 lines of $7,000 billion dollars. Again, Elon Musk has shown it. He's just scraping the surface, the tip of the iceberg. You have to do the work. We're not willing to do the work. Listen, I wrote the column in the Wall Street Journal. We need a budget, a budget review panel, Senators, House members, members of omb. They don't want to do it. They don't want to do the work. They want to slam this thing together. Take a look at a couple things like Medicaid, you know, everything else is saying, can't touch that, can't touch that, can't touch that. So they're not looking at all the detail. They're not looking at the literally hundreds of billions of dollars that if you didn't spend it, I don't think anybody would even know it. But you have to do the work. And I really can't give you the full answer then other than it's. Isn't it obvious based on what Elon's already found scratching the surface, that we ought to be able to find hundreds of billions again when you're spending 4400 billion in 2019 now we're spending 7000 billion dollars again, I got to believe it. Now if it's not there, I'll roll over and say, okay, that's as good as we can do. But we have to go line by line through thousands of lines of budgetary process. We have to do the work.

[Clay Travis]

We're talking to Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. I agree with everything you said and a lot of the people listening to us right now agree with everything you said. And one of the criticisms we get, and I'm sure you hear it too, is if Democrats want to spend $8 trillion and Republicans are willing to spend $7 trillion, let's just say what are we really voting on here? How much difference? This is the argument, right the swamp. How much difference is really being made if we're just talking about gradations of how much debt we're going to undertake?

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Well, again, what we're looking at right now in the bill is a 1.6% reduction over 10 years. Take 89.3 trillion down to little under $88 trillion. Again, it's not even a rounding error. I mean that's how insignificant it really is. And so basically we're talking about is we're basically codifying all of the Biden spending, all the Biden Covid spending. I really don't think people that voted for President Trump thought he would continue to spend at Biden's levels. So again, I'll keep going back to the numbers because they are just jaw dropping. 4.4 to $7 trillion, 58% increase and all we can do is drop it by 1.5%. It's just, it's pathetic. It's pathetic.

[Buck Sexton]

What happens if we don't, if we don't do the work, as you've been saying, what happens if we just say, you know what, no one has the will, American people aren't paying close enough attention. Let's just keep on rolling this train down the road. What do you see in the future?

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Well, again, what I've been trying to convince the President of and leadership is let's go back to the multiple step approach. Get the border funding, get defense funding, pocket about $850 billion of savings. I think the House has found at least that. Let's pocket that, then just extend current tax law, take that off the table. That put us in pretty good shape. That returns an awful lot of certainty to the economy. But you know, bottom line guys, I mean if, if we're not willing to reduce spending to a reasonable pre pandemic level and we still have deficits of 1.7, $1.82 trillion. Some point in time, I guess we're going to have to pay for those and maybe have to let tax rates increase. I think that's a terrible idea. I don't want it. I don't need anything in return. You know, I wouldn't bargain anything. It'd be a $0.01 bill. Just extend current tax law. Because. Because if we would have been smart enough back in 2017, if we would had Chairman Crapo who said, hey guys, let's use current policy, there's no score there. This can all be permanent. It doesn't have to automatically expire. But we weren't smart. That was a blunder. It was a huge blunder. So if we could have done it back then, we would have. So I don't want to score. I just want to extend current tax law. As awful as it is. Get that done and then we can take the time to go line by line. We could also be much more thoughtful in terms of the tax system. I would love to simplify and rationalize our tax system while we are providing the type of relief to working men and women that President Trump campaigned on. I'd love to do that. We won't get that done in two weeks. We won't get that done by July 4th. We'll end up with a really ugly bill that actually increase the deficit and we blow our one opportunity. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to reset federal spending that has been exploded by Democrats. You know, the initial pandemic spending, that was bipartisan, but we never should. We should have returned to pre pandemic spending back in 2021, 2022. We haven't done it.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you for coming on making this case. I agree with everything Senator Ron Johnson just said. If people agree with you, what would you ask them to do that are listening to us?

[Senator Ron Johnson]

Call their House members, call their senators, call the White House, tell them we again, spending is a problem. I've got a great video on my X page that everybody's saying we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. From the President on down. Send that to him. Take a look at that video. It runs about a minute 30. That's what we told our supporters. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. The final question is, so are we willing to fix it? Right now it doesn't look like we are.

[Clay Travis]

Thank you for coming on making the case. We will share that and in the meantime, best of luck. As we move through this process every day, that Senator Ron Johnson, I agree with everything he said. I think that going back to the baseline pre Covid budget makes a ton of sense. And you and I agree that this $37 trillion budget deficit at some point has to be addressed. We're sort of living in a magical world where we pretend that that deficit isn't real. And if you look at what Social Security, if you look at what Medicare, Medicaid and interest is eating up on the budget, there's just not that much outside of that arena that can be cut that is going to get us back to a balanced budget. I think it's like 86% of the budget is Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and now interest on the national debt. By the way, interest would be helped a bit if we could get the Fed in action to start cutting interest rates. And Trump was right when he wanted to lock in. Remember, he asked an interesting question. I never heard anybody really answer it, but he's like, hey, can we lock in the interest rate as a country? And back in the COVID days, we should have done that. Mother's Day Day for happy celebrations. One of the best gifts you can give any mom. The kind that evokes the best memories and good feelings. Legacy Box service is perfect for this. For more than a decade now, they've been digitizing pictures, videos, Super 8 film reels, 15 other media types. If it has pictures on it moves. They want to digitize it not just for moms, but for all everybody out there all year round. When you digitize those memories, you preserve them forever, make them really easy to rewatch and revisit. And Legacy Box trusted by over a million and a half families, including our own. Once you and mom send them those tapes, film and photos, they transfer all those memories and on the digital files and return your tapes and film plus brand new digital files. It makes a great gift for mom. We both relied on Legacy Box to do it for our families. They do amazing work. They're based in my mom's hometown of Chattanooga, Tennessee. And when you get back to the way family memories and entertainment lasting forever, it's priceless. Go to legacybox.com clay right now for the best Mother's Day sale ever. 60 off the regular prices. That's legacybox.com clay for 50 sit for 60 off legacybox.com clay 60 off sometimes all you can do is laugh. And they do a lot of it with the Sunday hang. Join Clay and Buck as they laugh it up in the Clay and Buck Podcast feed on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We'll be taking your calls here momentarily. Also want to tell you to make sure that you are drinking some delicious Crockett coffee. I'm holding up the mushroom blend. Those of you who haven't tried it, you will love mushroom coffee. I think it's got all kinds of cool health benefits. It's got half the caffeine in normal coffee and if you've never had it before, Crockett is a great place to start. Go to crocketcoffee.com subscribe if you just like normal coffee. Old school coffee. We got all that too. And it is delicious. And 10% of the profits goes to the Tunnel to Towers Foundation. And Mr. Clay and I are excited that, well, one thing you can also you can get code book and a copy. I had to run up the stairs Clay copy of American Playbook. So that's a cool thing to do. A crocketcoffee.com I also saw that they are saying there's gonna be a remake of the Goonies. I am excited about this. This is one of the great movies of my childhood. Do you trust that the Goonies roommate Goonies remake will pay homage to the original and be solid?

[Clay Travis]

No, but I don't because they've ruined so many of the classic movies of the 1980s with remakes. And so in general, I am not confident when Hollywood remakes anything. I would say I encourage all of you to go check out the original Goonies, which even if you don't have kids, maintains its viability as a phenomenal 1980s, a phenomenal 1980s movie. And by the way, I keep looking at my phone, Buck. In addition to waiting to see who the Pope is going to be, Biden's interview on the View.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Is more disastrous than I thought Biden's interview on the View could have possibly been.

[Buck Sexton]

We got our man in Vatican City, Raymond Arroyo, who is gonna join just like he did yesterday. As soon as we know who the Pope is, we know there's a Pope. We don't know who the Pope is yet. As soon as the word is out, our man on the ground at the Vatican is gonna call in and tell us everything we need to know. But other than that, it's just speculation right now. Apparently not Pope Pizza Bagel, which is sad, but it is one of the other Popes. We'll let you know when we know we are on it. We are live and we have great eyes on the situation from Raymond Arroyo. So we'll also talk about the view here, Biden. But the second we get a breakthrough on the Pope, when we know who the Pope is, you will know who the Pope is. So stay with us. Made in America means something to us. When you invest 700 billion annually in American companies and the 13 million workers and families they support, you're investing in.

[Clay Travis]

The success of Main Street.

[Buck Sexton]

That's money powering growth in manufacturing, tech, energy and innovation. And it starts with private equity backing American ambition. Learn how private equity keeps American businesses [e-mail], paid for by the American Investment Council. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.