Hour 1 - Buy Sophie Cunningham's Jersey!

Summary

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

Episode: Hour 1 – Buy Sophie Cunningham’s Jersey!
Date: July 23, 2026
Host: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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OVERVIEW

The July 23, 2026, edition of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show centers around outspoken WNBA star Sophie Cunningham’s recent comments on transgender participation in women’s sports, the left’s response, and the broader battle over culture and politics in America. The episode weaves this story with a spirited take on Democratic primary politics, touching on issues of race, identity, and the direction of the Democratic Party. With their characteristic mix of humor and opinionated commentary, Clay and Buck break down why Sophie Cunningham’s stance matters, the media pushback she’s received, and what the ongoing debates reveal about current cultural divides.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Sophie Cunningham Speaks Out on Women’s Sports

[02:01 – 09:21]

• Sophie Cunningham breaks ground: Cunningham, a current WNBA player, becomes the first known active professional female athlete to publicly state that men should not compete in women’s sports. Clay characterizes this as a “megawatt superstar” moment.
• Media backlash: Sports media, described as left-wing and antagonistic, aggressively questioned Cunningham for her stance.
• Standing firm: Cunningham refuses to retract or apologize for her statement, emphasizing, “I said what I said.” (Clay: “My heart skips a beat when somebody stands by their words in the face of outrage.”)
• Cunningham’s statements (from press availability):
  • “I think it’s kind of common sense. …It’s really important to protect children, and that’s little girls who are also involved in that category. So I stand on what I said and I always believe that. …That’s why you have Title IX.” ([05:25])
  • “I extend love and I don’t dislike anyone…there is room for absolutely everyone here…But I am also there to love biological women and I think there are rights that need to be protected…and I will never falter in my beliefs in that. …I’ve never once said I hated the trans community. …There’s space for everyone.” ([06:52])
• Buck’s reflection: “I’m surprised it took this long for a current women’s athlete to say this…especially at the WNBA, probably the wokest of women’s leagues. …What she’s saying is accurate, truthful, and tactically smart—this is about protecting women, not a political statement.” ([07:32])

Notable Quotes

• Clay Travis: “I’ve been waiting for someone in women’s sports, current athlete, to speak out like this. …Hallelujah.” ([06:24])
• Buck Sexton: “To defend women, you actually have to not allow trans women to compete against women in sports. …This is the destruction of women’s sports fundamentally, and everybody knows it.” ([08:07])

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2. Culture War and the Sports Media's Reaction

[09:21 – 13:10]

• Clay’s call to action: Urges listeners who care about women’s sports to support Cunningham by buying her jersey. “Best thing you can do is support people in women’s sports willing to speak out on this.”
• Influence spreading: Notes other women athletes (e.g., Annika Sorenstam) have supported Cunningham’s statement.
• Contrast with Megan Rapinoe’s position: Rapinoe is quoted as saying, “Any removal of men in women’s athletics is a direct attack on women in society,” framing opposition as a right-wing wedge issue. ([11:02])
• Buck’s retort: Critiques Rapinoe’s “blather” and points out the illogical progression of her argument.
• Media insanity: Clay reads from a USA Today column by Nancy Armour, which claims Caitlin Clark (WNBA star) arguing with referees puts black lives in danger and connects Clark’s popularity to white nationalism. ([13:10])
  • “I think this woman belongs in, by the way, a straight jacket in a mental institution,” says Clay, underscoring the hosts’ belief that sports journalism has lost touch with reality.

Notable Quotes

• Clay Travis: “You have to win culture in order to win elections.” ([13:10])
• Buck Sexton: “Sports media was more left wing than even political, and I had a hard time believing it’s true. …They’re also even dumber than I thought.”

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3. The Democrat Primary and Identity Politics

[20:25 – 35:43]

• Democratic primary jockeying: Discusses which state (South Carolina or Nevada) should go first in the 2028 Democratic primary, viewing the choice as a way to “rig the game” for a preferred candidate.
• Clay explains the calculus:
  • South Carolina leads = Kamala Harris advantage (strong with black primary voters).
  • Nevada leads = Possible advantage to Hispanic candidates or “bland white guy” centrists (e.g., Mark Kelly, Andy Beshear).
• Buck’s analysis: Argues it’s not strictly “rigging” but acknowledges any order benefits certain candidates. Predicts “things are going to get spicy.”
• AOC’s (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) surge: Noted as the favorite in New Hampshire, signaling a party drift further left.
• Discussion on representation: Clay and Buck debate whether black women would automatically line up behind Kamala and what that might mean for other candidates.
• Broader implications: Clay contends “this is the battle for who controls the Democratic Party going forward”—is it still the Clinton/Obama/Pelosi era or a new, more leftist direction?
• Long-term predictions: Both hosts discuss what might happen if the economy worsens, who Republicans could nominate (mentions DeSantis, Cruz, Marco, J.D.), and whether AOC’s leftist positioning will give way to a more moderate public persona.

Notable Quotes

• Clay Travis: “Who is the bland white guy they can cast in the Joe Biden unthreatening role and then have him be the Trojan horse candidate they can ride into the gates of power?” ([22:12])
• Buck Sexton: “The mechanisms to just tell the left to sit down and shut up…are not as strong as they were. …They’re going to have a harder time, I think, doing it this time.” ([32:39])

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4. Listener Engagement, Endorsements, and Cultural Consequences

[39:55 – 44:48]

• Callers weigh in: A listener (“Bonnie in Charleston, SC”) makes a joke about AOC only having passed the “margarita bar.” The hosts survey their audience’s opinions on who is smarter: AOC or Kamala Harris (60% say AOC).
• Another listener (Michael in Atlanta): Brings up Michigan’s primary and the socialist surge, asking if the far-left candidates can truly win power in the party, or if the mainstream will push back.
• Jewish candidates: Clay argues there is “zero percent chance a Jewish guy is going to be the head of the Democrat Party ticket in 2028” due to rising antisemitism, a point Buck agrees with.
• Listener proposal: Mike in Melbourne, FL, calls in with a tongue-in-cheek marriage proposal for Sophie Cunningham, admiring her looks, candor, and courage.
• Broader message: Clay predicts a cultural test is coming—will sponsors desert Cunningham after her statements, or will voices supporting traditional women’s sports become more emboldened? He frames this as a test case for whether standing up for one’s beliefs gets you canceled, or supported, in today’s media environment.

Notable Quotes

• Listener Mike: “If you’re listening, I will sell everything I own and buy you the biggest engagement ring I can possibly buy. You’re not only drop dead gorgeous, you speak your mind and you stand behind what you say. And that’s a rare combination.” ([43:15])
• Clay Travis: “I want to know if any of the companies that endorse Sophie Cunningham are going to drop her over this take. …That will be a cultural test in many ways.” ([44:12])

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MEMORABLE MOMENTS & QUOTES (WITH TIMESTAMPS)

• “I said what I said…It’s really important to protect children, and that’s little girls…That’s why you have Title IX.”
  – Sophie Cunningham ([05:25])

• “There is room to love everyone. …But I am also there to love biological women and I think there are rights that need to be protected…I’ll never falter in my beliefs in that.”
  – Sophie Cunningham ([06:52])

• “My heart skips a beat when somebody stands by their words in the face of outrage. …I hate the ‘I apologize to anybody who was offended’ thing.”
  – Clay Travis ([02:01])

• “This is about protecting women and protecting women specifically in sports…Who’s the one who’s really defending women here?”
  – Buck Sexton ([07:32])

• USA Today author’s claim Caitlin Clark fans are driven by white nationalism is read and mocked (“she belongs in a straight jacket”)
  – Clay Travis ([13:10])

• Clay’s candid take on Democrats:
  “No chance, Josh. There is a 0% chance a Jewish guy is going to be the head of the Democrat party ticket in 2028.” ([42:44])

• Listener Mike’s proposal for Sophie Cunningham:
  – “You’re not only drop-dead gorgeous, you speak your mind and you stand behind what you say.” ([43:15])

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• [02:01] Clay introduces Sophie Cunningham’s story; outlines show topics.
• [05:25] Sophie Cunningham’s press comments (Cut 16).
• [06:52] Cunningham addresses accusations her comments target trans people (Cut 17).
• [07:32] Buck analyzes why Cunningham’s stand is significant.
• [09:21] Clay urges listeners to support outspoken women athletes, mentions Annika Sorenstam’s support.
• [11:02] Megan Rapinoe’s alternative perspective played and critiqued.
• [13:10] Clay reads and lampoons the USA Today column associating Caitlin Clark fandom with white supremacy.
• [20:25] Hosts pivot to 2028 Democrat primary jockeying (South Carolina vs. Nevada).
• [22:12] Clay analyzes potential Democratic candidates and party strategy.
• [32:22] Buck notes Iowa/New Hampshire winners who lose nomination/presidency; Clay cites Biden as rare exception.
• [39:55] Listener calls begin; AOC vs. Kamala “smarter” debate.
• [41:11] Michael in Atlanta calls about Michigan Democratic primary and socialist surge.
• [42:44] Clay’s stark commentary on the prospects for Jewish Democratic candidates.
• [43:15] Listener Mike in Melbourne, FL, proposes to Sophie Cunningham.
• [44:12] Clay asks if sponsors will back or abandon Cunningham, framing it as a major culture war test.

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STRUCTURE

1. Introduction and Sophie Cunningham’s Stand
   – Context on women’s sports, culture war
2. Media & Celebrity Reaction
   – ESPN, WNBA, USA Today, Megan Rapinoe
3. Political Implications
   – Democratic primary battles, identity politics, party direction
4. Audience & Cultural Backlash
   – Calls, humor, marketing, and endorsements
5. Looking Forward
   – Broader implications for politics, sports, and culture

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For listeners who haven’t heard this episode:
Clay and Buck give a detailed and lively analysis of the stakes in women’s sports, the fallout for public figures who take controversial stances, and the growing role of identity politics in the Democratic Party—all with their signature blend of humor, outrage, and directness. Sophie Cunningham’s story is presented as a touchstone for larger battles over truth, biology, and cultural courage in modern America.

Transcript

[Clay Travis]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

Welcome in. We are rolling through the Thursday edition of Clay and Buck. We appreciate all of you hanging out with us on nearly 600am FM station, satellite radio and hello YouTube. We are everywhere that you can possibly be and some of you will be listening to this soon on a podcast, so we thank you. However, you are finding your way to be able to speak with all of us. So much to be discussed as we roll through today's program. I jotted down a bunch of things. Sophie Cunningham has become an absolute megawatt superstar and if you don't know her yet, you're about to know her and love her. She is a women's Basketball player. We talked a little bit about her yesterday, Buck, because she came out and said men shouldn't be able to compete in women's sports. Became the first that I know of current pro athlete in women's sports to be willing to say that. She was grilled by left wing sports media members who were offended, men in particular, for that perspective. And she led with I said what I said which I, I just. Oh, my heart skips a beat. Buck, when somebody says something that can be controversial and then everybody comes after him. And you, what do you so often see? The mealy mouth. Oh, I apologize to anybody who was offended. I hate it. And so we'll talk a bit about that here in a moment. Nevada versus South Carolina for the first Democrat primary. Hispanic versus black. Identity politics. Go into the mat. Buck has gone after women with short hair. We want. It sounds crazy.

[Buck Sexton]

No, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on. Women being told by their friend to cut their hair short. That is a different framing, sir.

[Clay Travis]

We will have fun with that, I promise. Also, there's some of you out there that are still riding around on. Would have still been riding around on horses in the early car age. You're not happy about self driving cars. There is data out that they are infinitely safer than driving driven cars. Waymo data. As Tesla and Waymo and many other companies out there begin the battle over self defense driving cars. We will get into that because I think that'll be really fun. And the data is starting to roll in. David Rutherford is going to join us. He's going to talk about testosterone in the military. And then Steve Dace is going to talk with us. He watched the Odyssey. I have not seen the Odyssey. Buck has not seen it, but it is a big story. And so we will be discussing that. But we began, Buck, with yesterday evening as I was sitting down to eat my dinner. Uh, there is a pregame press availability for Sophie Cunningham. And after she said that men should not be able to play in women's sports, that boys should not be able to play in girl sports, the crazy sports media, which continues to get crazier, decided that they were going to speak out and attack her. She is grilled by WNBA reporters over those comments that she made in an ESPN article. And she began by saying, I stand by what I said. Cut 16.

[Sophie Cunningham]

In that story with ESPN, you talked about wanting to protect young girls who shouldn't have to go against biological men. Just can you expand your viewpoint on that? I mean, I think I said what I said. I think it's Kind of common sense. And I think I'll always believe in that. I think it's really important to protect children, and that's little girls who are also involved in that category. And so I stand on what I said and I always believe that. Do you see your advocacy on that, like, taking any form going forward? You know, I don't know. I didn't. I'm not a very political person, but I do have beliefs, I have morals, and I'll always stand on those and be true to who I am. And I think people are going to take it how they want to take it, but I've never even really said anything about that. And so when it comes just to protecting young girls in sport and women in sport, I feel very strongly about that. I think that's why you have Title nine. That's why you have some of the greats in women's sports. If Title 9 and women's sports weren't protected, then you wouldn't hear about any type of women in sport. And so I think in the future it's just really important to protect.

[Clay Travis]

Okay, Buck. She continued, and I, I feel like I'm just saying hallelujah because I've been waiting for someone in women's sports, current athlete, to speak out like this. Then a reporter on a left wing news organization asked if she was targeting trans people, as you would expect. Here is cut 17. Some people might say, hey, for the trans community, this could be something that could come back on us or be targeted against us. Like, how do you, I guess, view that sort of critique?

[Sophie Cunningham]

You know, like I said, I extend love and I don't dislike anyone. Like, I think there is room for absolutely everyone here and I think there's room to love everyone. And I truly think when you get people in the same room and you have conversations, you actually have a lot in common, a lot in common with a lot of people. And so I'm there to love, but I'm also there to, to love biological women. And I think that there are rights that need to be protected. And like I said, I'm going to stand true to that. I'll never falter in my beliefs in that. But I have never once said I hated the, the trans community. Like I said, I think there's space for everyone.

[Clay Travis]

So are you in disbelief that this is actually a thing that has to be said?

[Buck Sexton]

No. I'm surprised that it took this long for someone like her in women's athletics to take this position honestly and to take it at the wnba, which is probably the wokest of the women's sports leagues, or at least the most openly so. And I think that the way she's doing it is also, it's very well, it's accurate, it's truthful, and it's also tactically very smart. Which is to say this is about protecting women. This isn't about, you know, Trump or right wing or Republicans or anything like that. This is about protecting women and protecting women specifically in sports. I know Riley Gaines has been out there making this case. Obviously Riley's a friend of the show and there have been some others. I don't, I haven't seen anyone from the WNBA willing to say this. I think Caitlin Clark is making too many hostage videos as it is from the court, as she's being battered and attacked by people that are jealous of her money and fame. But this is something that they don't have an answer to, which is, who's the one who's really defending women here? They want to say, well, what about trans women? No, no, they're not women. So to defend women, you actually have to not allow trans women to compete against women in sports. This destroying gender categories in sports is the destruction of women's sports fundamentally. And everybody knows it. And this is why they have just had years of this cult like cognitive dissonance of we're all about equality for women, including men who think they're women, beating up them, beating up those women in athletic competition because they have physical

[Clay Travis]

advantages, legitimately beating them up and winning a gold medal at the Summer Olympics, which just happened. So this is, I, I think it's so important. So if you're out there listening right now and you've got daughters, I said this last night. I was on Sean Hannity show. We were talking about it. I would go buy a Sophie Cunningham jersey. I would make sure that these jerseys are sold out. Because if you're out there and you're fed up, the best thing I think you can do is support people in women's sports who are willing to speak out on this buck. I saw Annika Sorenstam, who's one of the best women's golfers, has now shared Sophie Cunningham's take and endorsed it. We have women's tees on golf courses for anyone out there who plays. I mean, men can typically hit the golf ball a lot further than women. I mean, this is not, this is basic biology. Doesn't mean, look, my golf swing is awful. There's a lot of women out there listening to us right now who can hit the ball better than I can at golf, but a general male athlete is going to be much better at this. By the way, this is also going to be seen as an anti Megan Rapinoe take after Sophie Cunningham spoke out. Buck, our good friends at the View, the morons there, they shared this clip of Megan Rapinoe on the View saying any removal of men and women's athletics is a direct attack on women in society. Because this is the other side of that argument. Retired women's soccer player Megan Rapinoe. This is out there. I think this is a battle women have to fight. I mean, look, I can tell you what I think, but I think women need to fight this battle on behalf of women's athletics. The other side is Megan Rapinoe. Listen.

[Megan Rapinoe]

Yes, they're going after trans people in sports, and they're using this as a wedge issue because we love sports and, you know, we don't want our little girls to be unsafe in sports. And it's like, unsafe from who? But okay, but now we're using this as, like, an overarching thing when really, what. We're attacking women. We're saying, if you look like this as a woman, you can play. If you look like this as a woman, it's an attack on women in society. And I think the. The tie between the Heritage foundation now wanting to go after Title ix, it's just like, so blatant. Like, let's connect these dots. It's more than just a couple of trans kids in the entire country and a couple in each state being able to participate in some youth sports.

[Buck Sexton]

It's just blather. You. Actually, there's no argument here, or rather, there's no logical progression into anything she's saying. It's just a bunch of feelings that she has strewn together that are trying to make the point that she stands with the men who say they're women. Because the argument here is very much on the side of people who live in reality and see it for what it is. Women who look a certain way. Who says it's about women who look a certain way, way? There have been butch ladies who have competed in sports for a long time. No one has said anything about that. Unless that butch lady actually has a penis. That's the distinguishing characteristic here.

[Clay Travis]

Yeah, I. I'm laughing because this is so basic for anyone out there. And. And look, the sports media hates this. There's an article. Buck, I wanted to read this to you because I don't think you've seen it, and I think your. Your head is going to explode. This is USA Today. So Sophie Cunningham initially became.

[Buck Sexton]

Can I just say one thing while. Before you let tee this up, I just want to just. This is kind of like sprinkling a little spice into this. You know how you told me that the sports media was more left wing than even political and I had a hard time believing is true. They're also even dumber than I thought, though I will say that it's. They're very, very dumb in general. I mean, please continue.

[Clay Travis]

It is true that I've been dominating a lot of people with, you know, borderline hundred IQs for a long time. Listen to this. This is a USA Today sports column today, okay, by a writer named Nancy Armour. She is arguing that Caitlin Clark arguing with officials is putting black lives in danger. This is her real column. Buck, listen to this. It seems there is a white nationalist element to Clark's fandom that is deeply, deeply problematic. Made even more so because the WNBA is made up predominantly of black women, many of them queer. When Clark claims fouls that don't exist, when she goes on profanity lace tirades at referees, those racists see her as a white woman in need of saving and take matters into their own hands. Okay, this is a real column that is out. I think this woman belongs in, by the way, a straight jacket in a mental institution. She continues, it shouldn't need reminding. This country has an awful history of black people being harmed, even killed. This is a sports article in the name of defending white women. The WNBA's All Star Game this weekend is in Chicago, Emmett Till's hometown, and a local art gallery is currently hosting an exhibit imagining his life if he hadn't been lynched. While it's incumbent on the WNBA to do more to protect its players, there also should be an expectation on Clark to recognize the wider consequences of her actions. Imagine you are Joe Schmo sports fan and you let's pretend you still get the USA Today and you sit down and you're like, hey, you know what? I just want to read about sports. And then you read that you're a white supremacist because you support Caitlin Clark having five threes last night. I mean, this is what we have to fight. And people out there who say, why does this matter? Again, you have to win culture in order to win elections. And if you stand up for Sophie Cunningham, just speaking basic truth, I think you embolden and empower a lot of other women that are afraid of being attacked by these crazy people in sports media to Also stand up and speak out loud. So that's why I think this is a supremely significant story. And bravo, Sophie Cunningham, for being willing to, to speak out. We'll take some of your calls. By the way, I bet there's going to be a lot of reaction to, uh, we got a bunch of stories as we said that we'll be diving into during the course of the program. I want to tell you, if you are out there right now dealing with massive credit card debt, if you have 20 plus percent interest, if it's just hanging over your head, if when you get in bed at night, right as you're about to fall asleep, you think to yourself, man, I really got to do something about that credit card debt. All of us have been there at some point in time where that debt starts to feel like it's spiraling. It can start to stress you out in a major way. If you own a home, you can wipe it all out in as little as 10 minutes. If you go to Perfect 10 Mortgage right now, you may be able to use the equity you've already built in your home to pay off those high interest credit cards, personal loans, roll everything into one simpler monthly payment. One payment, one due date. A whole lot less stress on you folks at Perfect 10, they share your values, they'll shoot you straight. You can apply the reason it's called perfect 10 mortgage like Nadia Comanich, just put it in the back of your mind is because it takes 10 minutes and you can close in as few as 10 days. 10 minutes. Go fill it out for yourself right now. Perfect10 Mortgage.com that's perfect10 Mortgage.com Perfect10 Mortgage DBA Network Funding LP NMLS 22.97 equal housing lender all borrowers must qualify this advertisement not a promise to make a loan. Perfect 10 mortgage. Give them 10 minutes, they can help wipe out all of your debt. That's perfect 10 mortgage. Perfect10 Mortgage.com go today.

[Buck Sexton]

Laugh, learn, hang with the guys right there when you need them most. Clay and Buck just preset them on

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the I heart the headlines they move on. But the heartache and the terror they do not. Iran and its terrorist proxies are continuing to target Israel. Hezbollah continues its attacks in the north, forcing families to live under constant threat. But Israel is not only defending her people, she is standing on the front lines against terror that threatens us all. Even when the news crews leave the international fellowship of Christians and Jews, they remain every day they are on the ground providing life saving aid now near Israel's border with Lebanon. A Hezbollah drone recently struck the home of Yelena. Widowed earlier this year and living alone, she was trapped inside by the blast. Thankfully, she was not injured, but she remained displaced. It's hard these days, she says, but I don't want to leave. Well, as Christians, we are called to stand with God's people and pray for those defending Israel, protecting the freedoms we hold dear. I want you to join the international fellowship of Christians and Jews in praying for the peace of Jerusalem and for the soldiers, families and civilians carrying the burden of this fight right now. Visit prayifcj.org that's pray IFCJ mom, can I have Lingokids?

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Bach. We have some important soundbites for you from Trump's Marietta, Georgia speech, which we will be getting to as well. We're going to be dialing deeper, diving deeper, dialing in or diving deeper. I got to go with one or the other into the political back and forth as the midterm election approaches. So part of that is like Georgia, the Senate seat that's up for grabs there. We had the candidate on yesterday and we'll look at some of these individual races. And then also just for fun, Clay has seen and I have seen that currently the polling shows none other than a OC as the preferred Democrat presidential candidate in. Was it Iowa or New Hampshire?

[Clay Travis]

New Hampshire.

[Buck Sexton]

New Hampshire in New Hampshire. So that is also indicating something here. There isn't. Clay. This is why I think it'll be fascinating to watch this play out among the Democrats. They don't have a Clinton and Obama or a Biden in the mix. They don't have a Gore. They don't have somebody who's been. They have Kamala Harris who I think has a. Well, we'll see. But I think has a pretty weak brand relative to those other names. And then they have a whole left wing of the party that is lurching harder to the left with each passing day. And they may, this, this may be the time when all of a sudden people see who really calls the shots in the Democrat Party these days. It might be a little bit different. It's no longer the Pelosi Clinton party. It's turning into something else.

[Clay Travis]

Well, and where they pick as the first primary will tell you who they are trying to rig the game for. They are going to rig the game in some way. And I would just add, yes, AOC is surging the who is the bland white guy that they can cast in the Joe Biden unthreatening role and then have him effectively be the Trojan horse candidate who they think they can ride into the gates of power and then throw everything open and be crazy left wing. I think it's going to come down to Mark Kelly versus Andy Beshear for bland white guy that they try to argue should be the leader.

[Buck Sexton]

I don't think Gavin Newsom's inviting you to his vineyard anymore, Clay. I think you are off the vineyard list.

[Clay Travis]

I think he's lost bland white guy standards.

[Buck Sexton]

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[Buck Sexton]

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[Clay Travis]

switch to PureTalk today onk Clay time. Buck. Front page.

[International Fellowship of Christians and Jews Announcer]

I have it.

[Clay Travis]

I read it. It's delivered to my house, so you don't have to have it. Front page, New York Times. This morning I am reading upper left corner primary order creating a rift for Democrats. South Carolina and Nevada vie to be first in 2028. And Buck, here is the opening paragraph. And then we can tell you why this is really the battle that it is. South Carolina and Nevada have emerged as the two front runners to begin the 2028 Democrat presidential nominating, but their jockeying has grown acrimonious and pitted black and Latino party leaders against each other. According to interviews with more than a dozen party officials involved in the discussions, a powerful panel of 49 insiders of the DNC set to meet this week in Washington to sketch out the order of the early state calendar and then vote next month to finalize the choices. Okay, what's really at play here, Buck, is who does the DNC want to rig the primary for? Okay, if South Carolina is the first state. Now, you made an interesting argument yesterday that maybe they could convince James Clyburn to not go Kamala Harris, and that's intriguing in and of itself, and that would be interesting to watch. I think James Clyburn, 100% would come out in favor of Kamala. And if he did, South Carolina's off the board and Kamala is going to win it overwhelmingly. And if Kamala wins South Carolina overwhelmingly, then it's going to be hard to stop the Kamala freight train. What do I mean by that? My home state of Tennessee. She would win Georgia, she would win Alabama. She would win everywhere. With a large black population voting in the Democrat primary, Kamala Harris would roll up big margins all throughout the South. And it would be very, very difficult, I think, to derail her candidacy. Everyone knows that. So if they put South Carolina first, they are basically giving a big vote of confidence to Kamala Harris. Buck, if they go Nevada first, very good chance. I think that AOC or a bland white guy like Mark Kelly could surge up. Nevada's very close to California, too. Probably a state that Gavin Newsom would think he could compete in would not be good. None of this is good for like Mayor Pete, who only white people like, particularly white women. All of this is basically telling you who do Democrats want to rig the game for? And that's why it's turned into such a nasty battle here. How do you see it playing out?

[Buck Sexton]

Well, I'm a little. I'm a little more generous to our Democrat opponents here, I would say. Clay, I don't know that it's rigging the game because you have to pick somewhere. And wherever you pick, someone's going to be advantaged by that early on and someone's going to feel disadvantaged by that. So I don't think there's a. A perfect way to do this.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Buck Sexton]

And that means that the people in charge are going to be trying to think or the people making the decision are going to be trying to think about what the optics are for the broader party. And I think that things are going to get spicy. Okay, so much I can tell you

[Clay Travis]

reminder for people who may have forgotten, and most of you probably remember this, but for generations team, you can look up how long it was going on. Iowa had a caucus and New Hampshire had the primary.

[Buck Sexton]

They changed it up because of the racial angle of why do the two of the white estates get to be early in the.

[Clay Travis]

That was the argument they made, actually. I think it was because Joe Biden had never done well in Iowa and New Hampshire and he wanted to ensure he didn't have a legitimate challenger in 24. Because in 20, James Clyburn said vote Biden and it was over.

[Buck Sexton]

Oh, it was going to be the 24 challenger. Who's going to challenge it? Who was going to.

[Clay Travis]

They. They rigged. They flipped it to South Carolina first overall. They argued. Oh, this is about showing more racial deference. It was because Biden could never win Iowa and New Hampshire. So they rigged. They changed the start of the primary to ensure that nobody could get momentum against him. For the first time ever. Now they use the fig leaf of it's important that black voters have more of a say in who our nominee is going to be.

[Buck Sexton]

Clay, the only guy who ran against Biden was the guy who had no people show up.

[Clay Travis]

No, they changed it all before they.

[Buck Sexton]

This was long before somebody knew to stop anyone from. From getting in because no one did get into challenge of no serious person did.

[Clay Travis]

Which it worked because they knew that there was no way that we were going to. That we were going to lose. Meaning Biden if South Carolina was first because then he was going to storm through and there was no actual challenger that was ready and able to, to step forward. So I think this is now, I. It's going to be hard to move off of South Carolina because of the argument you made. Once you make the switch, I think it becomes consequential. The challenge they've got is Kamala benefits. If South Carolina's first, I don't think Kamala would win. Nevaeh Nevada and so they want to. If they want Kamala to be the choice, and I think a lot of people don't, then they'll try to go Nevada. If they want Kamala to be the choice, then South Carolina is going to be in there.

[Buck Sexton]

I just, I don't know what Democrat you're going to find who looks at the numbers and thinks that Kamala Harris is going to be the person who could overcome any of the competent Republican candidates that are under under consideration right now. Now, things could change. If for some reason it gets really ugly in the economy, then, then I think it's all bets.

[Clay Travis]

I mean, if we're still fighting a war in Iran and if gas is still $4 a gallon, I mean, it's a long time till 2028. But, you know, you're in that tough situation where then an outsider candidate for the Republican Party who isn't affiliated with the Trump team could potentially have a run, a Ted Cruz, for instance, who is definitely going to run against J.D. we have to figure out what Marco is going to do. But I actually think the Democrat side of the equation is far more complicated because I think there's 10 or 12 guys and gals you could argue could be the nominee. Whereas on the Republican side, I think beyond. I think honestly beyond Cruz and Marco. Sorry, Marco and, and, and J.D. it's hard to see if it's not one of the two of those guys. It would be a major upset at this point.

[Buck Sexton]

I think DeSantis is going to run.

[Clay Travis]

You think he. Now he may run?

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah, I think he's going to run. He may run with the idea that he's pulling a little bit of a fake. I'm running to be in your cabinet, sir. To Marco or to. That's, that's. I'm not sure in his head he would be thinking that. He would be thinking, I'm going to try to be president. But secondarily he would take a cabinet position.

[Clay Travis]

So you think DeSantis. We'll see what happens with Marco and J.D. we agree Cruz is going to run. Like, it would stun me if Ted Cruz didn't run. And then we'll see. I mean, Obviously, to your point, I do think this is always worth. You said it a while ago, and it's hard to refute. Does anybody really lose by running for president? You make more money, you get on

[Buck Sexton]

better boards, you get a lot of attention, even if you're not that serious of a candidate. And a lot of the people who are in politics, you know what the drug is that they have an addiction to more than any other attention being somebody who matters in the moment, whatever that means. So, yeah, I think you'll likely see that. But remember, Clay, we shouldn't overstate also the order of the primary being the determining factor necessarily. I think there have been again, pulling this up quickly on Grok15 candidates who have won the Iowa caucuses but lost the. It was. Lost the presidency or lost the nomination.

[Clay Travis]

I think it's rare. Biden was a rare example of someone who didn't come in. I think he came in fourth in Iowa and fifth in New Hampshire or reverse that to not come in even close. And then in South Carolina, suddenly he won, and then it was over.

[Buck Sexton]

I mean, I, I remember saying this because I, then I heard, I saw, I said it on radio. I remember seeing Tucker saying it on, on his show on Fox. And we know Biden can't be the nominee. The guy's got dementia. That's absurd. And that was not. Didn't feel like a weird thing to say at all. It was just an observation that anybody could have had in 2019 or going into, you know, early, early 2020. So sure enough, he managed to pull it off anyway, but we'll see how this all goes. I'm telling you, though, the, the, the mechanisms to just tell the left to sit down and shut up like they did to Bernie in 2016 are not as strong as they were. They're going to have a harder time, I think, doing it this time. Who is the party elder who gets to say, you know, you do this or else I'll cut off the funds, I'll cut off the money. You won't be in a position to even run a serious campaign unless you do what I say. I don't. I think a lot of the, A lot of the old guard is fate has faded out for the. For Democrats and for Republicans now.

[Clay Travis]

Well, one that I do think will have a big say is Bernie Sanders. And I think there's an expectation that he's going to go all in on aoc, which is. And then figure mom.

[Buck Sexton]

Which strengthens the hard left of the party, though. Now that goes to the.

[Clay Travis]

And Then you figure, mom Donnie's going to go all in on aoc, Right? So aoc, to your point, I think she knows. And again, this is AOC strategy. If I were thinking through it, AOC knows. She has the far left of the party right now. So to your point, you are starting to see AOC moderate publicly because privately everybody knows, oh, she's one of us on the far left, Mom, Donnie, Bernie, they don't doubt it. And now she's already starting to moderate her message a little bit and, and start to move a little bit more towards the center, which boxes out others. And again, I think Kamala, Black women are going to stay behind her. I really do. And so that's why I think Kamala is going to be a very viable candidate going forward.

[Buck Sexton]

I think you're underestimating how much the, how much the black primary voter in a Democrat primary is willing to hear. What are you going to do for me? From any candidate. I don't think that. I don't think they just line up behind Kamala.

[Clay Travis]

I really. I think they die in the wall. Kamala. Black women, I think they're not. I think she's. And then she's running her entire campaign on. Black women are always disrespected. How many times have you had to deal. I didn't get a fair shake. I had to go take over for the old white guy. How many of you at your jobs have had to cover for the old guy that isn't good enough at his job? Black women always get second class options. I can give you her entire speech already and every black woman's going to be saying, yep, huh, I'm with her. And it's going to be hard to shake that off. Now, is there another minority candidate that can cut into it? This is where the West Moore candidacy potentially rises. Aoc, but she's going to have more of a Hispanic poll. The Democrat side of this equation is going to tell us a lot.

[Caller or Guest]

It is.

[Buck Sexton]

It is indeed. All right. There's an old school saying, the telephone game, which means you tell one person something, they pass along the next person. By the time it gets to the 10th person line, it's totally different. Same thing happens when there's big news in the neighborhood. Interesting. Someone's home gets broken into, and before long everyone knows and everyone has a different version of the story. Bad news travels faster than good news. And a home break in is that kind of news. It also challenges you, challenges you to think just how prepared you might be for such a thing when you make that plan include a Saber Home Defense Launcher. Clay and I both have these at home. They're easy to use and they are powerful at stopping the threat. Sabre Home Defense Launcher delivers seven impact or pepper projectiles, two more than most competitors. When safety matters, America chooses Sabre, the number one brand trusted by police and millions worldwide. Sabre is how it's spelled. The website is saber protect.com right now. Save up to 15 on select Saber bundles. Don't wait until you wish you had protection. Visit saberprotect.com or call 844-824-SAFE, 844-824 safe

[X Games Announcer]

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[Clay Travis]

Clay and Buck have your back.

[International Fellowship of Christians and Jews Announcer]

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[Clay Travis]

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[Buck Sexton]

Welcome back in here to Clay and Buck. We have some calls. Bonnie in Charleston, South Carolina, one of our callers. Let's talk. Bonnie. What's going on?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Come on.

[Caller or Guest]

Can we please be logical about this actress that's trying to run for president? And by the way, guys, I know you were pushing Kamala because she passed the bar. You do know that AOC passed the bar, too. It was just the margarita bar.

[Buck Sexton]

Very nice.

[Clay Travis]

Very nice. Very well played. Buck, I put up the question earlier this week, who is smarter, AOC or Kamala? And you'll be pleased to know that 60% of people agree with you that AOC is smarter than Kamala. I still say Kamala smarter.

[Buck Sexton]

Nope.

[Clay Travis]

But.

[Buck Sexton]

Nope, nope.

[Clay Travis]

The audience.

[X Games Announcer]

I appreciate.

[Buck Sexton]

You take the L on that one. You take the L on that one.

[Parent Voice (Lingokids Ad)]

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[Buck Sexton]

And you know, that's. That's good of you because clearly, AOC smarter than comma. Although watching them both taste. Take a. What's the test that they. There you go. Have them taken LSAT. I was thinking of an SAT, but LSAT's fine. Same idea.

[Clay Travis]

Bar exam. We know. Kamala pass. That's my argument of why I think we.

[International Fellowship of Christians and Jews Announcer]

She.

[Clay Travis]

She is better. By the way, Michael in Atlanta has a good argument here. Coming up in a couple of weeks is the Michigan primary. And they have to decide between the van down by the river gal, Haley Stevens, I believe is her name, or Abdul El Sayed. And Michael is asking a good question because we've seen the Democrat Socialist, AKA the communists, rising up. Will that also extend into Michigan? Fire away.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, guys, I just wanted to say that, yes, what we've seen is the rise of these far left aggressors. But I really believe the Democratic base, who are led probably by people like James Carville and others, are just freaking out. What we're seeing right now is, yes, Elsayed may be up. I'm not saying it's going to hinge necessarily directly on him. But he's right now sort of the face of the primaries. And I guess what I'm saying is if you get a far left like him to win, you guys may be right, that AOC could be the person, but there's going to be. There's a lot of Democratic money coming in to defeat him. And I think the base is going to go to more of a reasonable position for 2020 and probably having somebody that's more palatable to the base, like a Josh Shapiro, even though the far left is again, you know, is in a.

[Clay Travis]

There's a zero. I appreciate the call and I appreciate some of the logic. No chance, Josh, there is a 0% chance a Jewish guy is going to be the head of the Democrat party ticket in 2028.

[Buck Sexton]

Yep, that's true.

[Clay Travis]

It's.

[Buck Sexton]

Yeah.

[Clay Travis]

Only going to get more anti Semitic in the Democrat Party. I think that John, the Josh shapiro, I think J.B. pritzker, maybe Ossoff too, who may well run. And the best case scenario those guys can make is that people don't realize they're Jewish, which sounds crazy. They have to hide the fact that they are Jewish because I think being Jewish is exclusionary now when it comes to the Democrat Party, I think that is correct.

[Buck Sexton]

So we, we agree on that one. Podcast listener Mike in Melbourne, Florida. Let's hear it. Sophie Cunningham, if you're listening, I will sell everything I own and buy you the biggest engagement ring I can possibly buy. You're not only drop dead gorgeous, you speak your mind and you stand behind what you say. And that's. That's a rare combination. You know, I don't know if Sophie's listening, but Clay could probably get the message to her.

[Clay Travis]

So, Clay, is that the first wedding wedding proposal that we have received on the program? I think maybe in history. Podcast listener Mike in Melbourne, Florida. I don't know that Sophie needs a big ring. I think she probably can afford to buy a lot of things for herself. Now, here's what I want to see, Buck. I want to know if any of the companies that endorse Sophie Cunningham are going to drop her over this take. Just tossing it out there because you know what the activists on the far left typically do is anytime you say anything other than a far left wing opinion, they all rush to the advertisers and they say, you saw it happen on this program back in the day. Oh, my goodness. How dare you platform and be associated with someone like this. I'm curious to see if any of her endorsement money, any of her company. Relationships collapse around this. I think it would actually be good for her if it did, because I think there'd be others that would rest. But that will be a cultural test in many ways. Open phone lines. What you got for us?

[Buck Sexton]

Coming up, Trump talking about what he said. Stick with us, dad.

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[Clay Travis]

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[Clay Travis]

my life, he's going to finish the Joel Osteen Daily Podcast. Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. What was meant for my harm? Lord, I want to thank you. Right now, you're turning to my advantage. Your daily source of hope and encouragement. Your second wind is on its way. God is about to breathe on your life in a new way. Listen to the Joel Osteen Daily podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your favorite podcasts.